Re: [Flightgear-devel] J7W Shinden
On Feb 21, 2007, at 4:07 PM, Georg Vollnhals wrote: > Indeed, lacking documentation is often increasing frustration. > You gave your wonderful aircraft a very nice doc, so thank you very > much > from the user-side :-) > > Regards > Georg EDDW My pleasure. I'm also concerned about it. Though there are many aircraft, there are less manuals. Now I can fly many aircraft without manuals but at the very first time I couldn't. So I believe someone new to FlightGear must need this. I hope I can spend my spare time to make some tutorials for Shinden. Tat - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] J7W Shinden
Tatsuhiro Nishioka schrieb: > Hi, > > I've started the manual for J7W Shinden, which is available at: > .. > > Anyway, I hope it helps many users. > > Tat > > Indeed, lacking documentation is often increasing frustration. You gave your wonderful aircraft a very nice doc, so thank you very much from the user-side :-) Regards Georg EDDW - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] J7W Shinden
Hi, I've started the manual for J7W Shinden, which is available at: http://macflightgear.sourceforge.net/home/aircraft/j7w/j7w-manual/ Japanese version is also available at: http://macflightgear.sourceforge.net/home/aircraft/j7w/j7w-manual-jp/ SInce I'm neither a pilot nor aircraft engineer, comments and advices are very welcome. Anyway, I hope it helps many users. Tat On Feb 20, 2007, at 11:39 AM, Tatsuhiro Nishioka wrote: > Hi, > > I've updated J7W Shinden. > The latest version is available at: > http://macflightgear.sourceforge.net/home/aircraft/j7w/ > - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] J7W Shinden
Hi, I've updated J7W Shinden. The latest version is available at: http://macflightgear.sourceforge.net/home/aircraft/j7w/ Martin, Could you commit it by downloading the diff file and binary files from the link above? Files and instruction are at around the "diff file from 20070131 (for CVS only)" section in the page. Thanks in advance. The changes I've made from the previous check-in are: * Assemble file (j7w-set.xml): - Added jwarbirds.nas in section - Changed the key bindings for Boost controller (from Ctrl-B to d/ Shift-d) due to htc - Added the key bindings for Water Methanol Injection (f/shift-f) - Changed the initial boost level (from 1.0 to 0.3) * FlightModel (j7w.xml): - Improved the engine output in high altitude. - Adjust the flap configuration for more stable flight. - Improved the mass balance by adjusting the CG and wing parameters (Thanks goes to Dave Perry) * Gauges (Instruments/*) - VSI (vertical speed indicator) shows m/min (was ft/min). range is -1000m/min to 1000m/min - Adjusted the needle of cylinder temperature and exhaust gas temperature gauges - More authentic (altimeter, boost, pitch, and magcompass) - More accurate Exhaust Gas Temperature (egt; JSBSim based code in Nasal script) - Added fuel, Hydraulic Traction Converter (htc; Boost Controller) - Added Water Methanol Injectiion (wmi; more boost) * 3D Model (Model/j7w.ac) - Imported pilot and seat from A6M2 - Added throttle, propeller-pitch, htc, and wmi in tue cockpit (not clickable yet) - Adjusted the positions of the gauges * Nasal scripts (Nasal/*.nas): - Common code among Japanese warbirds is written in jwarbirds.nas - Aircraft specific code is written in .nas - Added flap-driven elevator trim control (j7w.nas) - Added htc support to Turbine class (j7w.nas) - Added ExhaustGasTemperature class (j7w.nas) - Fixed the bug that cannopy didn't move (jwarbirds.nas; for Ki-84 and A6M2 at this moment) Tat - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT & business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php&p=sourceforge&CID=DEVDEV ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] J7W Shinden
On Tue, 2007-02-06 at 12:47 -0800, Tatsuhiro Nishioka wrote: > Dave, > > On Feb 5, 2007, at 8:35 PM, Dave Perry wrote: > > > I made > > an estimate from the 3D model as to approximately where the CG should > > be. The main wing should carry most of the weight, so since the > > wing is > > swept, I tried to change the ballast to move the CG to about x = > > -1.7 m > > (yours is at x = -0.666), or approximately at the leading edge root. > > This allowed me to reduce the cannard effectiveness to 1.5. > > I gave it a try and your configuration file seems very close to what > I want. It's a great help. > I was about to calculate the CG and some other parameters with a bit > more engineering way so I looked more deeply into the flight model > but hard to find the way to see the CG in yasim. your post saved me a > lot! > Plus, taking a look at your xml file told me that I mistakenly > settled the position of the main gears. > It should be -2.15 instead of -1.64 so your guess is right. And the > biggest mystery in my head was resolved. > > I calculated the position of CG with the equation obtained at: > http://www.paragonair.com/public/docs/FAA-Handbooks/8083-01_WnB/ > 8083-01_ch08.pdf > According to this document, the distance from the nose to the CG is > calculated as: > > CGoffset = D - (F*L) / W > > where D is the distance between the front wheel and the main wheel, F > is the weight of the front wheel, > L is the distance between the nose and the main wheel, and W is the > total weight of the aircraft. > Note: L and D are interchanged in your copy of the formula. I computed the sum of the moments over W to confirm this. > I estimated the weight of the front wheel as 1/6 - 1/8 of the total > weight. > Then the CG is placed between 6.43 to 6.59 m behind the nose. The > nose is at 4.89 m in x-axis so the > position of the CG can be between -1.54 and -1.70 on x-axis. > I should have included all the results of the experiment. I had "good" stability and not unreasonable values for the effectiveness from about -1.5 to -1.7 m for the CGx. In the real AC there is a safe CG/weight envelope, so this all seem consistent. > I'm now trying the actual weight of Shinden (I was using the lighter > weight since Shinden was not stable at all) > I tried various CG point in between the positions above. -1.54 seems > a little bit front heavy and -1.70 looks just > a little bit rear heavy with the accurate mass since reseting > flightgear lifts the nose up. > > > > Also, from > > your data, I see that the power off dirty stall is 67 knots, so I used > > that in the approach configuration (yasim assumes that the approach > > speed is the dirty stall speed). This allows a slower stall and > > better > > short field landings with approach at 85 knots. I flew from KSFO to > > KHLF and landed and turned off before the tower with little braking. > > 67 kts for the dirty stall is for A6M2 (sorry, I forgot to delete > these). > The one for Shinden should be a bit faster (probably around 75 - 85) > since its flight record says it landed at 100 or 120 kts. > I'm not pretty sure if it actually stall at this speed because > there's no such record as far as I know. (67 is very tempting > parameter to me though.) > By the way, the record says that it needed to put the elevator all > the way down at the full-flap to avoid the nose going down. > so the approach elevator in command-line yasim should be more than > 0.9, I guess. > > With a couple of test flights using the revised j7w.xml, I landed > Shinden at about 100 kts with three point landing with full-flap, > and 90 kts with a little bit aerodynamic landing (maybe I was lucky). > Again, thanks for this unique and interesting model. I really enjoyed experimenting with the config xml and was glad you found it helpful. I will likely misspell this, kombowa, Dave -- Dave Perry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier. Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] J7W Shinden
Hi John, On Feb 6, 2007, at 2:33 PM, John Denker wrote: >> CGoffset = D - (F*L) / W[1] >> >> where D is the distance between the front wheel and the main wheel, F >> is the weight of the front wheel, >> L is the distance between the nose and the main wheel, and W is the >> total weight of the aircraft. > > That's a misquotation or misinterpretation of the relevant > formula, as you can easily see by considering the case > where F=0, i.e. all the weight on the main wheels, in which > case the center-of-mass is located at the main wheels. Sharp!! It was my misquotation. D = distance between the main wheel and the nose tip. L = distance between the main wheel and the front wheel. When F = 0, CGoffset = D, which means all the weight is on the main wheel as CGOffset is equal to the distance between the nose tip and the main wheel. > In that case, equation [1] reduces to > > CGoffset = D[2] > > or in my notation > >(Xs - Xc) = (Xf - Xm)[3] > or >(Xs - Xc) = (Xf - Xc) (since Xc = Xm) > > which will not be true except in some exceedingly unusual > special case. > > Here the subscripts have the following meaning: >s stands for spinner >c stands for center-of-mass >f stands for front wheel >m stands for main wheels > > For details, including some of the algebra worked out > correctly, see >http://www.av8n.com/physics/cm-calc.htm With the correct quotation, The formula that I used shows exactly the same point as the (7) at the URL above does. (Xs - Xc) = (Xs-Xm) + (Xf−Xm) Wf / W (7) # I used Xs instead of D to avoid confusion. In the formula I've quoted, CGoffset = (Xs - Xc), D = Xs-Xm, L = (Xf -Xm), F=Wf Anyway, the actual calculation was made in this formula without misquotation. :-) Tat - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier. Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] J7W Shinden
On 02/06/2007 03:47 PM, Tatsuhiro Nishioka wrote: > I calculated the position of CG with the equation obtained at: > http://www.paragonair.com/public/docs/FAA-Handbooks/8083-01_WnB/ > 8083-01_ch08.pdf > According to this document, the distance from the nose to the CG is > calculated as: > > CGoffset = D - (F*L) / W[1] > > where D is the distance between the front wheel and the main wheel, F > is the weight of the front wheel, > L is the distance between the nose and the main wheel, and W is the > total weight of the aircraft. That's a misquotation or misinterpretation of the relevant formula, as you can easily see by considering the case where F=0, i.e. all the weight on the main wheels, in which case the center-of-mass is located at the main wheels. In that case, equation [1] reduces to CGoffset = D[2] or in my notation (Xs - Xc) = (Xf - Xm)[3] or (Xs - Xc) = (Xf - Xc) (since Xc = Xm) which will not be true except in some exceedingly unusual special case. Here the subscripts have the following meaning: s stands for spinner c stands for center-of-mass f stands for front wheel m stands for main wheels For details, including some of the algebra worked out correctly, see http://www.av8n.com/physics/cm-calc.htm - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier. Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] J7W Shinden
Dave, On Feb 5, 2007, at 8:35 PM, Dave Perry wrote: > Hi Tat, > > Thanks for this great addition! > > I took a look at the j7w Shindon including the j7w.xml yasim > configuration. Did you know there is a command line yasim in > $FG_ROOT/bin that allows you to get a lot of feedback from a trial > config xml file like j7w.xml w/o running fgfs? Thanks for the xml file. It's a great help. Yes, I know there's a command line version of yasim but didn't try it since I use Mac version of FlightGear and it doesn't come with the command line yasim unfortunately. # Oh, I'm the one who develops the Mac version so this misfortune is made by myself :-p > After a flight in the > Shindon, I was fairly certain that the CG (center of gravity) was too > far forward. This required you to use an effectiveness of 3.5 on the > cannard. And you did get the desired increase in stability. So I > made > an estimate from the 3D model as to approximately where the CG should > be. The main wing should cary most of the weight, so since the > wing is > swept, I tried to change the ballast to move the CG to about x = > -1.7 m > (yours is at x = -0.666), or approximately at the leading edge root. > This allowed me to reduce the cannard effectiveness to 1.5. I gave it a try and your configuration file seems very close to what I want. It's a great help. I was about to calculate the CG and some other parameters with a bit more engineering way so I looked more deeply into the flight model but hard to find the way to see the CG in yasim. your post saved me a lot! Plus, taking a look at your xml file told me that I mistakenly settled the position of the main gears. It should be -2.15 instead of -1.64 so your guess is right. And the biggest mystery in my head was resolved. I calculated the position of CG with the equation obtained at: http://www.paragonair.com/public/docs/FAA-Handbooks/8083-01_WnB/ 8083-01_ch08.pdf According to this document, the distance from the nose to the CG is calculated as: CGoffset = D - (F*L) / W where D is the distance between the front wheel and the main wheel, F is the weight of the front wheel, L is the distance between the nose and the main wheel, and W is the total weight of the aircraft. I estimated the weight of the front wheel as 1/6 - 1/8 of the total weight. Then the CG is placed between 6.43 to 6.59 m behind the nose. The nose is at 4.89 m in x-axis so the position of the CG can be between -1.54 and -1.70 on x-axis. I'm now trying the actual weight of Shinden (I was using the lighter weight since Shinden was not stable at all) I tried various CG point in between the positions above. -1.54 seems a little bit front heavy and 1.70 looks just a little bit rear heavy with the accurate mass since reseting flightgear lifts the nose up. > Also, from > your data, I see that the power off dirty stall is 67 knots, so I used > that in the approach configuration (yasim assumes that the approach > speed is the dirty stall speed). This allows a slower stall and > better > short field landings with approach at 85 knots. I flew from KSFO to > KHLF and landed and turned off before the tower with little braking. 67 kts for the dirty stall is for A6M2 (sorry, I forgot to delete these). The one for Shinden should be a bit faster (probably around 75 - 85) since its flight record says it landed at 100 or 120 kts. I'm not pretty sure if it actually stall at this speed because there's no such record as far as I know. (67 is very tempting parameter to me though.) By the way, the record says that it needed to put the elevator all the way down at the full-flap to avoid the nose going down. so the approach elevator in command-line yasim should be more than 0.9, I guess. With a couple of test flights using the revised j7w.xml, I landed Shinden at about 100 kts with three point landing with full-flap, and 90 kts with a little bit aerodynamic landing (maybe I was lucky). Anyway, I updated the files at: http://http://macflightgear.sourceforge.net/home/aircraft/j7w There're several other improvements such as engine power, flap-driven elevator trim control, etc. plus sweep angle, mass of both aircraft and engine, wheel positions are corrected. I'm going to try proptest to see how to adjust the engine/prop configuration Again, thanks for making your effort on this. I really appreciate it. Martin, could you download the diff file from the link above and commit it for me? Please commit with the comments that includes the revision history written at 20070205 and 2070206 in the Revision History section. Tat - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier. Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid
Re: [Flightgear-devel] J7W Shinden
On Thu, 2007-02-01 at 13:43 -0800, Tatsuhiro Nishioka wrote: > I hope many people fly it and tell me how to improve the stability > without doing this. I know it's supposed to be a bit unstable but > it's too unstable without > this workaround. Hi Tat, Thanks for this great addition! I took a look at the j7w Shindon including the j7w.xml yasim configuration. Did you know there is a command line yasim in $FG_ROOT/bin that allows you to get a lot of feedback from a trial config xml file like j7w.xml w/o running fgfs? After a flight in the Shindon, I was fairly certain that the CG (center of gravity) was too far forward. This required you to use an effectiveness of 3.5 on the cannard. And you did get the desired increase in stability. So I made an estimate from the 3D model as to approximately where the CG should be. The main wing should cary most of the weight, so since the wing is swept, I tried to change the ballast to move the CG to about x = -1.7 m (yours is at x = -0.666), or approximately at the leading edge root. This allowed me to reduce the cannard effectiveness to 1.5. Also, from your data, I see that the power off dirty stall is 67 knots, so I used that in the approach configuration (yasim assumes that the approach speed is the dirty stall speed). This allows a slower stall and better short field landings with approach at 85 knots. I flew from KSFO to KHLF and landed and turned off before the tower with little braking. Bert Rutan's Long-EZ, etc. were designed so the cannard stalls first. This is true for your model of the j7w also. I moved the x coordinate of the main gear aft for the duration of this experiment to assure the AC sat with the nose gear on the ground as I moved the CG back and forth. Give this config a try. -- Dave Perry j7w.xml Description: application/xml - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier. Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] J7W Shinden
Melchior, On Feb 3, 2007, at 1:23 AM, Melchior FRANZ wrote: > * > On Feb 2, 2007, at 2:18 AM, Melchior FRANZ wrote: >> Ah, it doesn't mean I don't have to fix it, but means I should >> implement the canopy soon. > > I didn't mean to complain about the canopy animation. The patch > was just a suggestion how to fix some minor problems. Yes, I totally understand what you mean. I love the code you suggested, so I'll use it. :-) >> Yes, I'm also worried about putting code spreading all over the place >> in CVS. It's no good. >> I included the same code since each archived file should be >> independent from others that are not included in the base package. > > Yes, of course. Such code can't be generalized, it needs to be > repeated > in aircraft that need it. I found it only funny that broken code > infects several aircraft so quickly. Well, many new aircraft developers like myself want to have some reference that is closer to their own. So it happens sometimes regardless of the quality. I don't know if distributing the same (or almost the same) code in different package is a good idea. but as I mentioned before, it improves the usability since users don't have to download other aircraft that they might not want. This is a bit difficult to take balance with the maintainability. >> The problem here is that I should have not given the package to you >> as it was. >> I should have known what I should do and I should not do before that. > > No, no, no. That was fine. Code doesn't need to be perfect when > it's getting added to CVS. Heck, it doesn't need to be and become > perfect at all. CVS isn't storage for finished projects, it's > working space. We often add half-done aircraft to CVS and they are > worked on and improved as the author submits fixes and grow with > the project. Of course I can't make a perfect code at the early development stage, and do know what the CVS version is for. What I meant was not the code itself, but was the way I made the obsolete code spread. I simply limited the use of the new features only because the backward compatibility. Anyway, it is a good thing that many developers like you tell us what is available and what is obsolete. So I want to thank you for this. >> Okay, I understand another convention. >> "Do not write any code only for the backward-compatibility reason." >> I'll fix this immediately. > > Not exactly. But CVS/HEAD (sg, fg, data) is what's going to become > the next release, and all parts of it should be developed in parallel > and adopt new, improved ways of doing things, new features, etc. > None of the parts should be frozen and reject new features only > to remain compatible with past releases. CVS has such a frozen state > already: it's the tags. Check out with -rRELEASE_0_9_10 and you > *have* the compatibility and everything fits together (more or > less :-). > Aircraft added after the last release are supposed to become > compatible with the *next* release. If you want to make the > Ki-84' COMPAT_0_9_10 branchlet really compatible with 0.9.10, > then please submit patches for that. But don't limit your > possibilities by trying to make HEAD compatible with 0.9.10. That's what I exactly meant. Backward compatibility sometimes kills the possibility of the use of newly created features. I want my code fresh and cool even though the aircraft itself is old. :-p > >> - including A6M2/electrical.nas from each -set.xml for both Ki-84 and >> J7W. > > Bad idea. Fixing the bugs in each is the way to go. Agreed, even though it is a bit redundant, it can be an independent package. > >> - using fdm_initialized singal to start the updates() func. > > That's also not what I meant to say. Do it like you want, using that > signal or not. Just make your decisions based on the next release, > not on the last. The last one is history. Oh I do love to use the signal. I thoroughly check the code and there's a few difference between CVS and 0.9.10 in the code I've made or used. So it's not that hard to make patches for 0.9.10. I was thinking about how I want to maintain the code that I made, and the answer is I want to use the new features if it is either useful or simple. > > And now I'll stop (for a while :-) to comment on aircraft commits and > submissions and to fight for consistency within fgfs. This always > gets me into hot water, and most of the time I'm on my own. Oh no no no, don't stop it. shere your idea and thought with others. What's you're doing helps other developers but not gets yourself into hot water. I never complain what you said or what you mean. I simply want to thank you for doing this. Developers like me want to make their own creation better so introducing new features and suggestion are very welcome. Moreover, suggestion and discussion from the architectural perspective is very important. Don't even think about stopping it. This is what the list is for and it is the way to keep such a big proj
Re: [Flightgear-devel] J7W Shinden
Hi, * Tatsuhiro Nishioka -- Saturday 03 February 2007: * > On Feb 2, 2007, at 2:18 AM, Melchior FRANZ wrote: > Ah, it doesn't mean I don't have to fix it, but means I should > implement the canopy soon. I didn't mean to complain about the canopy animation. The patch was just a suggestion how to fix some minor problems. > Yes, I'm also worried about putting code spreading all over the place > in CVS. It's no good. > I included the same code since each archived file should be > independent from others that are not included in the base package. Yes, of course. Such code can't be generalized, it needs to be repeated in aircraft that need it. I found it only funny that broken code infects several aircraft so quickly. > The problem here is that I should have not given the package to you > as it was. > I should have known what I should do and I should not do before that. No, no, no. That was fine. Code doesn't need to be perfect when it's getting added to CVS. Heck, it doesn't need to be and become perfect at all. CVS isn't storage for finished projects, it's working space. We often add half-done aircraft to CVS and they are worked on and improved as the author submits fixes and grow with the project. > Okay, I understand another convention. > "Do not write any code only for the backward-compatibility reason." > I'll fix this immediately. Not exactly. But CVS/HEAD (sg, fg, data) is what's going to become the next release, and all parts of it should be developed in parallel and adopt new, improved ways of doing things, new features, etc. None of the parts should be frozen and reject new features only to remain compatible with past releases. CVS has such a frozen state already: it's the tags. Check out with -rRELEASE_0_9_10 and you *have* the compatibility and everything fits together (more or less :-). Aircraft added after the last release are supposed to become compatible with the *next* release. If you want to make the Ki-84' COMPAT_0_9_10 branchlet really compatible with 0.9.10, then please submit patches for that. But don't limit your possibilities by trying to make HEAD compatible with 0.9.10. > - including A6M2/electrical.nas from each -set.xml for both Ki-84 and > J7W. Bad idea. Fixing the bugs in each is the way to go. > - using fdm_initialized singal to start the updates() func. That's also not what I meant to say. Do it like you want, using that signal or not. Just make your decisions based on the next release, not on the last. The last one is history. And now I'll stop (for a while :-) to comment on aircraft commits and submissions and to fight for consistency within fgfs. This always gets me into hot water, and most of the time I'm on my own. m. - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier. Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] J7W Shinden
Melchior, On Feb 2, 2007, at 2:18 AM, Melchior FRANZ wrote: > * Tatsuhiro Nishioka -- Friday 02 February 2007: >> Actually the canopy of J7W is temporal for now so opening/closing >> canopy is not implemented yet. > > I know that the canopy isn't animated yet. But seeing how you > intended to do it in the Nasal code was reason enough to fix > it already. Ah, it doesn't mean I don't have to fix it, but means I should implement the canopy soon. And I'm really glad to know a better way. Thanks for that. > Only after that I noticed that you copied it from > the Ki-84, where you copied it from the A6M2. Bad Nasal code > is spreading like wildfire. :-} Yes, I'm also worried about putting code spreading all over the place in CVS. It's no good. I included the same code since each archived file should be independent from others that are not included in the base package. The problem here is that I should have not given the package to you as it was. I should have known what I should do and I should not do before that. I'm very happy to cooperate with the architectural conventions or rules if you share these with me (or us). we've discussed this issue a bit so I understand a little about what you have. so could you tell us what else you have in your mind about the conventions, or tell us what documents should we look at? If I get it right, it can be "Do not copy the same Nasal code from other aircraft." By the way, requiring other aircraft only for Nasal code is lacking of usability especially in the case none of the aircraft that share the similar code is included in the base package. That's why I'm using the same code in the different aircraft even though I know these are redundant when installed. As many aircraft are distributed as independent archive packages, these should work when installed, thus the common code should be included. Otherwise the dependencies should be resolved when installed. However, this reason is only for myself and does not excuse what I have done. > >> I'll also try to find a way to avoid the Nasal error. It should >> happen in Ki-84 and A6M2 too, maybe only on CVS version. >> And I guess this is why fdm_initialized signal is introduced in CVS >> version, right? > > Exactly. And it *should* be used. Don't try to avoid it just to > make your aircraft compatible with old versions. CVS/HEAD is for > the *next* release, not the last one. Okay, I understand another convention. "Do not write any code only for the backward-compatibility reason." I'll fix this immediately. >> Though it's a bit redundant in CVS version but It works on both >> versions. > > Argh. I don't want bad & obsolete code in CVS/HEAD just to keep > compatibility with old fgfs version. That's not what CVS/HEAD is > for. It needs to develop and become better, not be frozen. I only > made the Ki-84 COMPAT_0_9_10 branchlet because it was assumed > that the removal of redundant key bindings was the only thing > that broke it for 0.9.10. But now I'm sorry I did, as this > obviously leads in the wrong direction. I think about removing it > again. You don't have to make yourself confused by doing so. Just let me make it better. I'll clean up the code for CVS-HEAD and give these to you when done. At this moment, for CVS-HEAD, I will clean up the code by: - including A6M2/electrical.nas from each -set.xml for both Ki-84 and J7W. - using fdm_initialized singal to start the updates() func. - removing the code that exists only for the backward-compatibility reason. How's this? If there's any conventions or rules that you have, Please have these posted here. Tat - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier. Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] J7W Shinden
* Tatsuhiro Nishioka -- Friday 02 February 2007: > Actually the canopy of J7W is temporal for now so opening/closing > canopy is not implemented yet. I know that the canopy isn't animated yet. But seeing how you intended to do it in the Nasal code was reason enough to fix it already. Only after that I noticed that you copied it from the Ki-84, where you copied it from the A6M2. Bad Nasal code is spreading like wildfire. :-} > I'll also try to find a way to avoid the Nasal error. It should > happen in Ki-84 and A6M2 too, maybe only on CVS version. > And I guess this is why fdm_initialized signal is introduced in CVS > version, right? Exactly. And it *should* be used. Don't try to avoid it just to make your aircraft compatible with old versions. CVS/HEAD is for the *next* release, not the last one. > Though it's a bit redundant in CVS version but It works on both > versions. Argh. I don't want bad & obsolete code in CVS/HEAD just to keep compatibility with old fgfs version. That's not what CVS/HEAD is for. It needs to develop and become better, not be frozen. I only made the Ki-84 COMPAT_0_9_10 branchlet because it was assumed that the removal of redundant key bindings was the only thing that broke it for 0.9.10. But now I'm sorry I did, as this obviously leads in the wrong direction. I think about removing it again. m. - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier. Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] J7W Shinden
Jon, Thanks for the link. Now all I have are Macs, so I'll try it when I go back to Japan. Tat On Feb 1, 2007, at 7:33 PM, Jon S. Berndt wrote: > DATCOM+ could probably help, here, but it is not an easy tool for > beginners. > See www.holycows.net/datcom. > > Jon > - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier. Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] J7W Shinden
DATCOM+ could probably help, here, but it is not an easy tool for beginners. See www.holycows.net/datcom. Jon > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of > Tatsuhiro Nishioka > Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2007 8:41 PM > To: FlightGear developers discussions > Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] J7W Shinden > > > On Feb 1, 2007, at 5:09 PM, Jon S. Berndt wrote: > > > > How did you get the aerodynamic coefficients? Is there any > > published data > > for this? > > > > Jon > > Well, no web articles or books are available for aerodynamic > coefficients of this aircraft, > so most of the parameters are guesstimate at this moment. > That's the big reason that I'm struggling with stabilizing this > airplane. > > All parameters except ones that can be obtained from three-view > drawings and some web articles or the book I have are guesstimate. > However, there're some articles that show the flight records in the > test flights. > I guessed the parameters for wings and mass balance according to the > record so the airplane flies as it is described in the > flight record (it's not that close at this moment though). > > If you expect the accurate data for this aircraft, then I'm sorry but > there's no such data available as far as I know. > If there are any, I'm very happy to have these. > > Tat. > > > > > - > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make > your job easier. > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier. Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] J7W Shinden
Tatsuhiro Nishioka wrote: > Hi, > > I've started J7W Shinden, an Imperial Japanese Navy intercepter for > FlightGear. Cool. I always loved that airplane. Too bad only one (less than one, really) survived. I hope NASM gets around to restoring it soon, but I doubt it since it saw, IIRC, no action. Much prettier than the US version, the XP-55. Josh - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier. Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] J7W Shinden
On Feb 1, 2007, at 5:09 PM, Jon S. Berndt wrote: > > How did you get the aerodynamic coefficients? Is there any > published data > for this? > > Jon Well, no web articles or books are available for aerodynamic coefficients of this aircraft, so most of the parameters are guesstimate at this moment. That's the big reason that I'm struggling with stabilizing this airplane. All parameters except ones that can be obtained from three-view drawings and some web articles or the book I have are guesstimate. However, there're some articles that show the flight records in the test flights. I guessed the parameters for wings and mass balance according to the record so the airplane flies as it is described in the flight record (it's not that close at this moment though). If you expect the accurate data for this aircraft, then I'm sorry but there's no such data available as far as I know. If there are any, I'm very happy to have these. Tat. - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier. Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] J7W Shinden
> Shinden has a canard configuration with a pusher propeller and it's > aerodynamically too unstable in yasim so I made it a bit too > forgiving in stalling for now. > I hope many people fly it and tell me how to improve the stability > without doing this. I know it's supposed to be a bit unstable but > it's too unstable without > this workaround. > > I've also been trying to use JSBSim, but the engine and propeller > doesn't seem getting closer to acceptable level, plus I don't know > how to simulate the canard-type airplanes' behavior with JSBSim. How did you get the aerodynamic coefficients? Is there any published data for this? Jon - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier. Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] J7W Shinden
Melchior, # you sent me some of emails but this topic can be shared with others, so I'll post it to the list. Thanks for sending me the patch. I'm going to update the script with your patch (for both Ki-84 and J7W). I will also have implement the canopy movement in j7w/Models/j7w.xml soon if time allows. Actually the canopy of J7W is temporal for now so opening/closing canopy is not implemented yet. I'll also try to find a way to avoid the Nasal error. It should happen in Ki-84 and A6M2 too, maybe only on CVS version. And I guess this is why fdm_initialized signal is introduced in CVS version, right? I think I can put a line or two to check if the parameter is null in updates(). Though it's a bit redundant in CVS version but It works on both versions. As a matter of fact, I used this way to avoid "nil used in numeric context" in converting units for gauges (for different reason though). I'm very happy to know if there's a way to share the same code with both versions without redundancy on this issue. Finding a signal that works on both versions can be good, or I should make scripts for two different versions, which I don't want to. Tat On Feb 1, 2007, at 3:09 PM, Melchior FRANZ wrote: > * Tatsuhiro Nishioka -- Thursday 01 February 2007: >> I've started J7W Shinden, an Imperial Japanese Navy intercepter for >> FlightGear. > > Tried it out ... fun to fly. :-) > > But I got one Nasal error: > > Nasal runtime error: nil used in numeric context > at /home/m/fgfs/Base.local/Aircraft/j7w/Nasal/j7w.nas, line 16 > > The updates() function is simply started too early, before the > FDM is up. Why not start it in the "fdm-initialized" listener? > > The attached patch fixes it, and it does also use the aircraft.door > class for the canopy. This isn't a requirement, but has the advantage > that the canopy is moved with constant speed. Otherwise you'd *always* > get 2 seconds movement, even if you reverse movement at the half way. > Currently the rest would still take 2 seconds, effectively moving with > half speed. The aircraft.door class has a rich interface (move(), > open(), > close(), ...). You could, for example, dump the whole listener, and > just use the nasal command "j7w.canopy.toggle()" in the bindings. > > m. - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier. Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] J7W Shinden
* Tatsuhiro Nishioka -- Friday 02 February 2007: > Melchior, > > I haven't made a 0.9.10 compatibility branch yet. What would be > > the differences? Only the n/N bindings? > > At this moment, yes. Err ... but the "/sim/signals/fdm-initialized" listener won't work on 0.9.10. This signal was introduced after that release. m. - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier. Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] J7W Shinden
Melchior, Thanks! On Feb 1, 2007, at 2:16 PM, Melchior FRANZ wrote: > * Tatsuhiro Nishioka -- Thursday 01 February 2007: >> Could you check in the files for 0.9.10 (and for CVS) into the CVS >> repository in the same way you did Ki-84 for me? > > Checked in, thanks. Very funny aircraft. :-) Yes indeed. my son calls this 'Shrimpy' :-) > I haven't made a 0.9.10 compatibility branch yet. What would be > the differences? Only the n/N bindings? At this moment, yes. Tat. - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier. Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] J7W Shinden
* Tatsuhiro Nishioka -- Thursday 01 February 2007: > Could you check in the files for 0.9.10 (and for CVS) into the CVS > repository in the same way you did Ki-84 for me? Checked in, thanks. Very funny aircraft. :-) I haven't made a 0.9.10 compatibility branch yet. What would be the differences? Only the n/N bindings? m. - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier. Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] J7W Shinden
Hi, I've started J7W Shinden, an Imperial Japanese Navy intercepter for FlightGear. You can download it from: http://macflightgear.sourceforge.net/home/aircraft/ Shinden has a canard configuration with a pusher propeller and it's aerodynamically too unstable in yasim so I made it a bit too forgiving in stalling for now. I hope many people fly it and tell me how to improve the stability without doing this. I know it's supposed to be a bit unstable but it's too unstable without this workaround. I've also been trying to use JSBSim, but the engine and propeller doesn't seem getting closer to acceptable level, plus I don't know how to simulate the canard-type airplanes' behavior with JSBSim. Anyway, I hope you enjoy this interesting airplane. I also guess it is relatively easier to build some other canard-type airplanes such as XP-55 Ascender if it is based on this. Melchior, Could you check in the files for 0.9.10 (and for CVS) into the CVS repository in the same way you did Ki-84 for me? Tat - Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier. Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
