Re: [Flightgear-devel] announcing star trek runabout shuttle and questions

2007-02-15 Thread Stewart Andreason
I thought I was done, but you know how it goes. I thought of several ideas for 
improvements, and managed to write the code to do it.

In the latest, and hopefully final release of shuttlecraft and runabout, I 
have doubled the nasal code size to make ALL engine animations and sound 
effects act more realistic. Several other texture tweaking, and only a couple 
vertices errors. Also, I have added keyboard support and on-screen help, to 
look more finished.

http://www.geocities.com/sandreas41/flightgear_aircraft.html

Oh, and the smash to get thru the bandwidth door only lasted for the first 
hour last time... so waiting an hour from this timestamp can't hurt.

Stewart




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Re: [Flightgear-devel] announcing star trek runabout shuttle and questions

2007-02-15 Thread Stewart Andreason
Hi R.

Your suggestion of sub-orbital flight last month got me thinking:
If my altitude is > 25 miles, will the scenery get loaded?

I uncommented the debugging output in src/Scenery/tilemgr.cxx
and tried a high-speed flight from Seattle to Peru or Chile (some impressive 
mountain range) where I flew down some valley toward the Pacific. (Ok, this is 
what I like FlightGear for.) :-)

It worked. The tile cache seemed to work well.

Later, last week, I managed to pin down when the fps goes sluggish, and it 
wasn't on a long flight.
It is during "catching up on tile delete queue"
That's what I thought might be a problem... Perhaps because it tries to catch 
up on too many tiles at once.

Stewart

R. van Steenbergen wrote:
> principles (e.g. has VTOL with reaction jets, etc.). I'm making a bit of 
> a case study of building a light sci-fi styled spacecraft sim based on 
> Serenity, which can be used for orbital flight and atmospheric flight 
> (and be used to simulate real-world aircraft as well). Not sure if the 
> sim will ever get built, but it might be possible to combine the efforts 
> of Orbiter (for orbital / space simulation) and FlightGear (atmo 
> flight), possibly with visuals on the planet from FS2004 or FSX. If you 
> look on the net (see link) you can find a lot of data on the Danube 
> class -- keep in mind that the model was never designed for real-world 
> flight and I'm not sure how much a good FDM would appreciate this.





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Re: [Flightgear-devel] announcing star trek runabout shuttle and questions

2007-02-07 Thread Stewart Andreason
To everybody who is interested in ufo alternatives,
the runabout and both shuttles are now out of development, and have undergone 
substantial improvements.

http://www.geocities.com/sandreas41/flightgear_aircraft.html

Enjoy!
Stewart

Joacim Persson wrote:
> Ha! You can run but you can't hide from the PS-05/Blue Vixen radar. ;)

Can the emblem or door positions of the bo105 be seen across a network?

Part of me thinks you're joking, but the other part wants to know. :)




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Re: [Flightgear-devel] announcing star trek runabout shuttle and questions

2007-01-27 Thread Joacim Persson
On Fri, 26 Jan 2007, Stewart Andreason wrote:

> Hi Ampere,
>
> Actually creating a cloaking device isn't that difficult,

Ha! You can run but you can't hide from the PS-05/Blue Vixen radar. ;)

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] announcing star trek runabout shuttle and questions

2007-01-26 Thread Stewart Andreason
Hi Ampere,

Actually creating a cloaking device isn't that difficult,
having already experimented with transparency for the windows.
I created a patch for danube runabout, and put it here:
  http://www.geocities.com/sandreas41/data/danube_cloak_patch.zip

Press [TAB] to bring up the dialog menu to access it.
or press landing gear button on joystick.
(it was easiest to tap into, without rewriting the joystick.xml. But too easy 
to press accidentally.)

It does create one side effect though, one that I may not figure out how to 
get around, without some help.
Once the cloaking device is activated the first time, any non-textured surface 
with color, becomes washed out, even Grey. unless in direct sunlight.

There is some effect from using Material:Transparency:alpha-property that 
changes something it shouldn't. Unless it is a feature I don't understand.
Maybe the specularity? How can I access it to change it back?

Enjoy! :)

Stewart

Ampere K. Hardraade wrote:
> On Thursday 25 January 2007 02:46, Dene wrote:
>> With or without cloaking device?
> Oooh... I wonder what sort of methods could pull that off. :)


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] announcing star trek runabout shuttle and questions

2007-01-26 Thread AJ MacLeod
On Friday 26 January 2007 01:16, Ampere K. Hardraade wrote:
> AJ is currently holding 1st place with nearly 50,000 vertices with his
> Sopwith Camel.

To be fair, Vivian has added a fair percentage of those too :-) (the Camel is 
a joint project).  Worth every one of them though - have a look at the 
Vickers guns...

Cheers,

AJ

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] announcing star trek runabout shuttle and questions

2007-01-25 Thread Curtis Olson

On 1/25/07, Ampere K. Hardraade  wrote:


> Actually, it wouldn't be hard to implement a cloaking device. Just make
> every object an animation, and turn it off...
Ah, but on the shows, the ships don't disappear suddenly; they fade out
with
that characteristic cloaking noise. :)

> Kind of defeats the purpose of having the model though, unless you're in
a
> multi-player environment.
Actually, I'm not sure it will work across the network.  Which means you
might
not be able to see yourself, but others can see your perfectly.



Sounds strikingly similar to that unfortunate incident I had last summer
with the cloaking body suit I bought off of ebay. :-(

Curt.
--
Curtis Olson - University of Minnesota - FlightGear Project
http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/  http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/
http://www.flightgear.org
Unique text: 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] announcing star trek runabout shuttle and questions

2007-01-25 Thread Ampere K. Hardraade
On Thursday 25 January 2007 10:57, Stewart Andreason wrote:
> If it doesn't have too many vertices and faces. That's what's taken me over
> a year to get working with the runabout. I'd still like to know what that
> limitation actually is.
AJ is currently holding 1st place with nearly 50,000 vertices with his Sopwith 
Camel.

> Actually, it wouldn't be hard to implement a cloaking device. Just make
> every object an animation, and turn it off...
Ah, but on the shows, the ships don't disappear suddenly; they fade out with 
that characteristic cloaking noise. :)

> Kind of defeats the purpose of having the model though, unless you're in a
> multi-player environment.
Actually, I'm not sure it will work across the network.  Which means you might 
not be able to see yourself, but others can see your perfectly.

Ampere

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] announcing star trek runabout shuttle and questions

2007-01-25 Thread Ampere K. Hardraade
On Thursday 25 January 2007 02:46, Dene wrote:
> With or without cloaking device?
Oooh... I wonder what sort of methods could pull that off. :)

> Wouldn't a Klingon warbird be a nice alternative to the UFO?
I would assume so. :)

Ampere

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] announcing star trek runabout shuttle and questions

2007-01-25 Thread Stewart Andreason
I'm personally hoping a shuttlecraft will replace the ufo. Light and
maneuverable, excellent for flying close to the ground, up mountain canyons. 
But you probably guessed that already. ;)

Perhaps the Klingon Bird of Prey is small enough to fly near the ground.

If it doesn't have too many vertices and faces. That's what's taken me over a 
year to get working with the runabout. I'd still like to know what that 
limitation actually is.

Actually, it wouldn't be hard to implement a cloaking device. Just make every 
object an animation, and turn it off...
Kind of defeats the purpose of having the model though, unless you're in a 
multi-player environment.

Glad you like them, Enjoy!
Stewart

--
Dene wrote:
>> Nice models - I am looking forward to a klingon vessel!

> 
> With or without cloaking device?
> 
> Wouldn't a Klingon warbird be a nice alternative to the UFO?
> 
> Dene
> NZWN



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] announcing star trek runabout shuttle and questions

2007-01-24 Thread Dene
Is there a programmer's guide to nasal and xml?

> http://wiki.flightgear.org/ has a lot
> http://www.plausible.org/nasal is good for nasal
> the Docs dircectory of the fg installation
> And of course - source code is the best documentation ;-)
>
> Nice models - I am looking forward to a klingon vessel!
>
>   
http://www.plausible.org/nasal/flightgear.html

With or without cloaking device?

Wouldn't a Klingon warbird be a nice alternative to the UFO?

Dene
NZWN

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] announcing star trek runabout shuttle and questions

2007-01-24 Thread Torsten Dreyer
> Is there a programmer's guide to nasal and xml?
http://wiki.flightgear.org/ has a lot
http://www.plausible.org/nasal is good for nasal
the Docs dircectory of the fg installation
And of course - source code is the best documentation ;-)

Nice models - I am looking forward to a klingon vessel!

Torsten

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] announcing star trek runabout shuttle and questions

2007-01-24 Thread Stewart Andreason
Hi Ampere and Melchior and everybody who downloaded the shuttlecraft models,

I have completed the VTOL and ground handling I desired to put in the model!
Many thanks to those who answered the questions, it was helpful.

I have updated all files, but if you were successful in downloading anything 
today, don't worry! I have put together a small patch-file (with 3 text files) 
to make the upgrade easy.
  http://www.geocities.com/sandreas41/data/danube_patch.zip
  http://www.geocities.com/sandreas41/data/shuttleG_patch.zip


Melchior FRANZ wrote:
> No. The ufo FDM was never thought to simulate an "actual" ufo. It's
> just the scenery browser and was originally thought (by the author)
> to replace the old scenery browser -- the "magic" FDM. That's why
> it doesn't have any fancy features, and I somehow doubt any such will
> be added for nicer UFO experience.

I think the fancy features have just been added.
The nasal angle works very well.

VTOL is available through the Hat on multi-button joysticks, in combination 
with the F4 modifier, (elevator trim).

[TAB] also brings up a menu, for those who want to change the defaults. :)

Stewart


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] announcing star trek runabout shuttle and questions

2007-01-24 Thread Ampere K. Hardraade
On Wednesday 24 January 2007 14:54, Stewart Andreason wrote:
> I have finally reached a point where I can call it done, with only some
> flight-handling details remaining.
>   So I have a few questions:
>
> Is there a programmer's guide to nasal and xml?
Not really, though there is a homepage for Nasal:
http://www.plausible.org/nasal/

> 2nd:
> Does the ufo flight model have any variables I can set, to Detect the
> ground and stay above it?
I think you should be able to pull it off with Nasal by modifying the 
properties under /positions.

> 3rd:
> Does the ufo flight model support vertical take offs and landings?
> (I see reactor jets in the harrier model, but ...)
Possibily, with Nasal, also by modifying properties under /positions.

> 4th:
> material emissions do not cast light on nearby surfaces. Are there other
> light sources available?
Unfortunately, no.

> 5th, an observation:
> It seems there is a ceiling at 262410 ft. above which, there is no black
> space. No, I don't expect to fly to the moon, but it would be cool to see
> the earth from space. ;)
Yeah, that's a bugger.  I can't use FG in a presentation for a 
microsatellite. :(

> Screenshots and downloadable files are at:
>http://www.geocities.com/sandreas41/flightgear_aircraft.html
Looks good.

Ampere

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] announcing star trek runabout shuttle and questions

2007-01-24 Thread Stewart Andreason
Hi Melchior,

Melchior FRANZ wrote:
> * Stewart Andreason -- Wednesday 24 January 2007:
>> Is there a programmer's guide to nasal and xml?
> 
> Use of Nasal in XML is no different from using it elsewhere.

But I still need a manual. I can only learn from existing code, when said 
models have every possible function included in use!


> But you can simply use a different property and write some Nasal
> elsewhere that updates that airspeed property accordingly:
> 
>  /velocities/abs-airspeed-kt
> 
> In a *.nas file or elsewhere:
> 
>   var airspeed = props.globals.getNode("/velocities/airspeed-kt", 1);
>   var abs_airspeed = props.globals.getNode("/velocities/abs-airspeed-kt", 1);

right, and why are some variables declared without the "var"?

> 
>   update_airspeed = func {
>   var a = abs(airspeed.getValue());
>   abs_airspeed.setDoubleValue(a);
>   settimer(update_airspeed, 0);
>   }
>   update_airspeed();

Ah, that's the part I didn't know about.

> No. The ufo FDM was never thought to simulate an "actual" ufo. It's
> just the scenery browser and was originally thought (by the author)
> to replace the old scenery browser 

Didn't anticipate that one, huh? :D
Another good reason to demonstrate the possibilities.


>> Does the ufo flight model support vertical take offs and landings?
>> (I see reactor jets in the harrier model, but ...)
> 
> No. You could, of course, fake that via a dynamic_view like
> mechanism. Just tilt 3D model and view. Or use an FDM that
> supports it. That would be YASim.

Ok, I searched the entire code base, and can't find any text like 
"dynamic_view". So this returns to question #1...

> I'm glad that at least a few people look at this stuff. :-)
> unfortunately, the fgfs_animation.py is broken and waits for a fix.

Ah, yes, a little broken... but it was adequate to figure out how the emission 
billboards work.

2 New questions:
Is it known that overlapping transparent textures cancel out the ones behind?

I had to keep the warp glow from overlapping any other animations, (for 
example).

And, Why do large .ac files give SegFault11 and crash? when the same mesh, 
saved in .3ds does load ok?

(I am no longer certain why some meshes load in FG and some don't.)
Perhaps, Does the ac format create a size limitation inside FG?

Thanks,
Stewart

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] announcing star trek runabout shuttle and questions

2007-01-24 Thread Stewart Andreason
Hi,

Problem with orbital flight in FlightGear, is the scenery cache gets bogged 
down fast enough as it is.
I believe I saw a comment about that, perhaps in the last month, that the tile 
cache doesn't get deleted properly.
Of course, not a problem for normal aircraft, or "short" flights.

The danube model may not be designed for real-world flight, and it would take 
me quite a while to learn how to integrate it with yasim, but with the 
exception of VTOL, I am quite happy with the way it flies with the ufo logic.

More spacecraft here and there? :)
Like shuttles flying in and out near the SFO bay bridge, just like in the 
movies. Don't give any ideas... :D

Stewart


R. van Steenbergen wrote:
> I'd really like some more spacecraft popping up, such as Serenity from 
> Firefly, which is actually a model based on real-world aviation 
> principles (e.g. has VTOL with reaction jets, etc.). I'm making a bit of 
> a case study of building a light sci-fi styled spacecraft sim based on 
> Serenity, which can be used for orbital flight and atmospheric flight 
> (and be used to simulate real-world aircraft as well). Not sure if the 
> sim will ever get built, but it might be possible to combine the efforts 
> of Orbiter (for orbital / space simulation) and FlightGear (atmo 
> flight), possibly with visuals on the planet from FS2004 or FSX. If you 
> look on the net (see link) you can find a lot of data on the Danube 
> class -- keep in mind that the model was never designed for real-world 
> flight and I'm not sure how much a good FDM would appreciate this.


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] announcing star trek runabout shuttle and questions

2007-01-24 Thread bass pumped
I think the models look great!!

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] announcing star trek runabout shuttle and questions

2007-01-24 Thread Stewart Andreason
Hi,

Geocities has an hourly limit of 4.2Mb for free accounts, so there's not much 
I can do short of finding a different site to host on.

I had forgotten about this and did not anticipate the high level of interest.

Because Danube is shorter than runabout? ;)
or because I wouldn't name a c172 as "airplane".
Makes sense to me, and I'm sticking by it. :)

Looks like R. took care of the "why" question.

Stewart

Curtis Olson wrote:
> On 1/24/07, *Heiko Schulz* wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Sorry, but I get following message:
> Sorry, this GeoCities site is currently unavailable.
> 
> And a question: Why it is called "Danube" ?  :-)
> 
> Greetings
> HHS
>  > Screenshots and downloadable files are at:
>  >
>  >
> http://www.geocities.com/sandreas41/flightgear_aircraft.html
> 
> 
> It's the dreaded FlightGear effect again ... :-)
> 
> Post a link on the FlightGear mailing list and that site quickly gets 
> overwhelmed with too much traffic.
> 
> Curt.


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] announcing star trek runabout shuttle and questions

2007-01-24 Thread R. van Steenbergen
Curtis Olson schreef:
> On 1/24/07, *Heiko Schulz* wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Sorry, but I get following message:
> Sorry, this GeoCities site is currently unavailable.
>
> And a question: Why it is called "Danube" ?  :-)
>
> Greetings
> HHS
> > Screenshots and downloadable files are at:
> >
> >
> http://www.geocities.com/sandreas41/flightgear_aircraft.html
>
>
> It's the dreaded FlightGear effect again ... :-)
>
> Post a link on the FlightGear mailing list and that site quickly gets 
> overwhelmed with too much traffic.
>
Same problem here.

On the Danube question: The Danube is the name of the class of a 
runabout in Star Trek and was first introduced in Star Trek: Deep Space 
Nine. All of DS9's runabouts were named after rivers on Earth.

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Danube_class

I'd really like some more spacecraft popping up, such as Serenity from 
Firefly, which is actually a model based on real-world aviation 
principles (e.g. has VTOL with reaction jets, etc.). I'm making a bit of 
a case study of building a light sci-fi styled spacecraft sim based on 
Serenity, which can be used for orbital flight and atmospheric flight 
(and be used to simulate real-world aircraft as well). Not sure if the 
sim will ever get built, but it might be possible to combine the efforts 
of Orbiter (for orbital / space simulation) and FlightGear (atmo 
flight), possibly with visuals on the planet from FS2004 or FSX. If you 
look on the net (see link) you can find a lot of data on the Danube 
class -- keep in mind that the model was never designed for real-world 
flight and I'm not sure how much a good FDM would appreciate this.

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] announcing star trek runabout shuttle and questions

2007-01-24 Thread Curtis Olson

On 1/24/07, Heiko Schulz wrote:


Hi,

Sorry, but I get following message:
Sorry, this GeoCities site is currently unavailable.

And a question: Why it is called "Danube" ?  :-)

Greetings
HHS
> Screenshots and downloadable files are at:
>
>
http://www.geocities.com/sandreas41/flightgear_aircraft.html



It's the dreaded FlightGear effect again ... :-)

Post a link on the FlightGear mailing list and that site quickly gets
overwhelmed with too much traffic.

Curt.
--
Curtis Olson - University of Minnesota - FlightGear Project
http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/  http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/
http://www.flightgear.org
Unique text: 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] announcing star trek runabout shuttle and questions

2007-01-24 Thread Heiko Schulz

--- Stewart Andreason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
schrieb:

Hi,

Sorry, but I get following message:
Sorry, this GeoCities site is currently unavailable.

And a question: Why it is called "Danube" ?  :-)

Greetings
HHS
> Screenshots and downloadable files are at:
>   
>
http://www.geocities.com/sandreas41/flightgear_aircraft.html
> 
> My thanks to Melchior for the bo105 files to learn
> animation from, and for the 
> blender-textured-lights tutorial.
> 
> Stewart
> 
>
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] announcing star trek runabout shuttle and questions

2007-01-24 Thread Melchior FRANZ
* Stewart Andreason -- Wednesday 24 January 2007:
> Is there a programmer's guide to nasal and xml?

Use of Nasal in XML is no different from using it elsewhere.
Here in this case you can't embed any nasal:
 
>  
>/velocities/airspeed-kt
>0.0002
>  
> 
> doesn't work when airspeed is negative.

But you can simply use a different property and write some Nasal
elsewhere that updates that airspeed property accordingly:

 /velocities/abs-airspeed-kt

In a *.nas file or elsewhere:

  var airspeed = props.globals.getNode("/velocities/airspeed-kt", 1);
  var abs_airspeed = props.globals.getNode("/velocities/abs-airspeed-kt", 1);

  update_airspeed = func {
  var a = abs(airspeed.getValue());
  abs_airspeed.setDoubleValue(a);
  settimer(update_airspeed, 0);
  }
  update_airspeed();

You may have to initialize the airspeed property or defer its usage
(via /sim/signals/fdm-initialized listener if you are using fg/cvs).



> 2nd:
> Does the ufo flight model have any variables I can set, to Detect the ground 
> and stay above it?

No. The ufo FDM was never thought to simulate an "actual" ufo. It's
just the scenery browser and was originally thought (by the author)
to replace the old scenery browser -- the "magic" FDM. That's why
it doesn't have any fancy features, and I somehow doubt any such will
be added for nicer UFO experience.



> 3rd:
> Does the ufo flight model support vertical take offs and landings?
> (I see reactor jets in the harrier model, but ...)

No. You could, of course, fake that via a dynamic_view like
mechanism. Just tilt 3D model and view. Or use an FDM that
supports it. That would be YASim.


 
> 4th:
> material emissions do not cast light on nearby surfaces. Are there other 
> light 
> sources available?

Not yet. I bet Mathias has plans for that.  :-)



> My thanks to Melchior for the bo105 files to learn animation from, and for 
> the 
> blender-textured-lights tutorial.

I'm glad that at least a few people look at this stuff. :-)
unfortunately, the fgfs_animation.py is broken and waits for a fix.

m.

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[Flightgear-devel] announcing star trek runabout shuttle and questions

2007-01-24 Thread Stewart Andreason
Hi everybody,

I have been working on some Star Trek shuttlecraft and the runabout to fly 
instead of the ufo saucer, for 2 years (off and on).

While I know most of you are dedicated to wing-based aircraft, I am sure there 
are others who like to fly around just for the scenery.

I have finally reached a point where I can call it done, with only some 
flight-handling details remaining.
  So I have a few questions:

Is there a programmer's guide to nasal and xml?

How can I modify a factor-property to get only the integer?
example in Models/danube.xml :
  
 material
 Mesh.ImpulseGlow
 
   /velocities/airspeed-kt
   0.0002
 
  

doesn't work when airspeed is negative.

2nd:
Does the ufo flight model have any variables I can set, to Detect the ground 
and stay above it?

3rd:
Does the ufo flight model support vertical take offs and landings?
(I see reactor jets in the harrier model, but ...)

4th:
material emissions do not cast light on nearby surfaces. Are there other light 
sources available?

5th, an observation:
It seems there is a ceiling at 262410 ft. above which, there is no black space.
No, I don't expect to fly to the moon, but it would be cool to see the earth 
from space. ;)

Screenshots and downloadable files are at:
   http://www.geocities.com/sandreas41/flightgear_aircraft.html

My thanks to Melchior for the bo105 files to learn animation from, and for the 
blender-textured-lights tutorial.

Stewart

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