Re: [Flightgear-devel] Improved 3D Clouds patch ( further invesigations )
Hi, For all, I made a small package with the textures I used in the video- there are more to come and more shaping of the clouds. You can take a look here: www.hoerbird.net/clouds_cumulus.zip Cheers HHS - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Improved 3D Clouds patch ( further invesigations )
Heiko Schulz wrote: I began with making new cloud textures and shaping via xml. Creating clouds is easier than I thought though it is a lot of work- like building an aircraft! ;-) Here is a video featuring the 3d-clouds with new textures. I need still work on shaping and creating the other cloud types- in the moment I have only Cumulus: http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=li8nb3rGuHA Unfortunately the video is too compressed- It still needed an hour for upload and another one for processing... They look fantastic ! Thanks for taking the time to improve them. Could you make them available for check-in? BTW I have been working on some minor code improvements for the 3D clouds: - placing the sprites on a sphere rather than a cylinder (a code bug) - Only checking for repositioning of the cloud layer every 60 frames. - Improving the culling heuristic to remove sprites that are too close together. - Performing better shading of the bottom of the cloud. None of these things should affect the work you have been doing. I hope to get these checked in soon - but the weather today is nice so I'm going out to fly my microlight first. I'll make sure to take some photos of clouds! -Stuart - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Improved 3D Clouds patch ( further invesigations )
On Sun, 16 Nov 2008 08:38:18 + (GMT), Stuart wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Heiko Schulz wrote: I began with making new cloud textures and shaping via xml. Creating clouds is easier than I thought though it is a lot of work- like building an aircraft! ;-) Here is a video featuring the 3d-clouds with new textures. I need still work on shaping and creating the other cloud types- in the moment I have only Cumulus: http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=li8nb3rGuHA Unfortunately the video is too compressed- It still needed an hour for upload and another one for processing... They look fantastic ! ..aye, just one li'l thing, shouldn't the other 2 planes vanish in the denser clouds? I've seen wings 'n engines disappear in cloudy hide 'n seek, can happen several times a second. Thanks for taking the time to improve them. Could you make them available for check-in? BTW I have been working on some minor code improvements for the 3D clouds: - placing the sprites on a sphere rather than a cylinder (a code bug) - Only checking for repositioning of the cloud layer every 60 frames. - Improving the culling heuristic to remove sprites that are too close together. - Performing better shading of the bottom of the cloud. None of these things should affect the work you have been doing. I hope to get these checked in soon - but the weather today is nice so I'm going out to fly my microlight first. I'll make sure to take some photos of clouds! -Stuart -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Improved 3D Clouds patch ( further invesigations )
..aye, just one li'l thing, shouldn't the other 2 planes vanish in the denser clouds? I've seen wings 'n engines disappear in cloudy hide 'n seek, can happen several times a second. Yep- and so much as I know it is on the To-Do-List of Stuart But when you look into other sims liek MSFS and X-Plane they have the same problem. - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Improved 3D Clouds patch ( further invesigations )
On Sun, 16 Nov 2008 22:58:36 + (GMT), Heiko wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]: ..aye, just one li'l thing, shouldn't the other 2 planes vanish in the denser clouds? I've seen wings 'n engines disappear in cloudy hide 'n seek, can happen several times a second. Yep- and so much as I know it is on the To-Do-List of Stuart But when you look into other sims liek MSFS and X-Plane they have the same problem. ..beautiful, FG stays the most realistic sim. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;o) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Improved 3D Clouds patch ( further invesigations )
Hi at all, The tools are there for anyone to take a look at and help improve. I'm not very good with GIMP, so I'm hoping that someone else can spend some time improving them. There are details of the XML format in data/Docs/README.3DClouds -Stuart I began with making new cloud textures and shaping via xml. Creating clouds is easier than I thought though it is a lot of work- like building an aircraft! ;-) Here is a video featuring the 3d-clouds with new textures. I need still work on shaping and creating the other cloud types- in the moment I have only Cumulus: http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=li8nb3rGuHA Unfortunately the video is too compressed- It still needed an hour for upload and another one for processing... Cheers HHS - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Improved 3D Clouds patch ( further invesigations )
We have this http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/3DClouds-img6.jpg AND this http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/3DClouds-img8.jpg Which means that the layer(behind) being the cause of these ugly edges could be Clouds and Sea. We may hope that could be fixed, since, we have now these great 3DClouds. Wasn't it said that Tim could solve it ?:) Cheers I only have the layer problem- if we could fix that, we could have a better nimbostratus and altostratus layer- making it with the 3d-clouds seems to me like a framerate-killer. ( getting a 100% dark overcast). The other things (the scond picture) is a texture problem, IMHO. Regards HHS - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Improved 3D Clouds patch (further invesigations)
Hi Stuart! Thanx for your greatest 3D clouds patch Works great but I find something that can totally eliminate glitches - Z-buffer precision. So if I have near/far zones to 0.01/7000 I have glitches, but when I modified to 10/7000 all glitches are gone. Maybe we should render only clouds with high z-buffer precision using FBO and then paste it to all world? Also my suggestion is using point sprites because we use only 1 vertex. Thanx in advance Bye -Original Message- From: Stuart Buchanan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 12:27 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; FlightGear developers discussions Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Improved 3D Clouds patch Heiko Schulz wrote: For now I which a bit more documentation about making the cloudshapes. I did understand that there are layers with Boxes with a set of clouds. But I have problems with these coordinates: box x3200/x y0/y z2400/z typest-large/type /box and grid sizes. I've checked in a new data/Docs/README.3DClouds, which should explain how the cloudlayers.xml file works. Please let me know if any of it is unclear. Thanks very much for all the feedback and help everyone has provided in the past week. I've been humbled by the help and encouragement everyone has shown, and the 3D clouds have improved greatly due to this. A superb example of FG community development at its best! Best regards to all, -Stuart - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Improved 3D Clouds patch (further invesigations)
Roman Grigoriev wrote: Hi Stuart! Thanx for your greatest 3D clouds patch Works great but I find something that can totally eliminate glitches - Z-buffer precision. So if I have near/far zones to 0.01/7000 I have glitches, but when I .01 is really not a reasonable near-plane value. Having said that, there is some code to deal with Z-plane precision problems (ViewPartitionNode), so I'm surprised that we're seeing such a problem. I confess I haven't had time yet to check out the cloud effects or the code, and I'm glad others have gone ahead and committed the patches... Tim modified to 10/7000 all glitches are gone. Maybe we should render only clouds with high z-buffer precision using FBO and then paste it to all world? Also my suggestion is using point sprites because we use only 1 vertex. Thanx in advance Bye -Original Message- From: Stuart Buchanan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 12:27 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; FlightGear developers discussions Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Improved 3D Clouds patch Heiko Schulz wrote: For now I which a bit more documentation about making the cloudshapes. I did understand that there are layers with Boxes with a set of clouds. But I have problems with these coordinates: box x3200/x y0/y z2400/z typest-large/type /box and grid sizes. I've checked in a new data/Docs/README.3DClouds, which should explain how the cloudlayers.xml file works. Please let me know if any of it is unclear. Thanks very much for all the feedback and help everyone has provided in the past week. I've been humbled by the help and encouragement everyone has shown, and the 3D clouds have improved greatly due to this. A superb example of FG community development at its best! Best regards to all, -Stuart - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Improved 3D Clouds patch (further invesigations)
Tim I played with 3D clouds patch in my sandbox and forgive me if I'm not familiar with whole flightgear/simgear system. Now I try modify existing code of 3Dclouds to pointsprite usage. Roman -Original Message- From: Tim Moore [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 12:23 PM To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Improved 3D Clouds patch (further invesigations) Roman Grigoriev wrote: Hi Stuart! Thanx for your greatest 3D clouds patch Works great but I find something that can totally eliminate glitches - Z-buffer precision. So if I have near/far zones to 0.01/7000 I have glitches, but when I .01 is really not a reasonable near-plane value. Having said that, there is some code to deal with Z-plane precision problems (ViewPartitionNode), so I'm surprised that we're seeing such a problem. I confess I haven't had time yet to check out the cloud effects or the code, and I'm glad others have gone ahead and committed the patches... Tim modified to 10/7000 all glitches are gone. Maybe we should render only clouds with high z-buffer precision using FBO and then paste it to all world? Also my suggestion is using point sprites because we use only 1 vertex. Thanx in advance Bye -Original Message- From: Stuart Buchanan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 12:27 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; FlightGear developers discussions Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Improved 3D Clouds patch Heiko Schulz wrote: For now I which a bit more documentation about making the cloudshapes. I did understand that there are layers with Boxes with a set of clouds. But I have problems with these coordinates: box x3200/x y0/y z2400/z typest-large/type /box and grid sizes. I've checked in a new data/Docs/README.3DClouds, which should explain how the cloudlayers.xml file works. Please let me know if any of it is unclear. Thanks very much for all the feedback and help everyone has provided in the past week. I've been humbled by the help and encouragement everyone has shown, and the 3D clouds have improved greatly due to this. A superb example of FG community development at its best! Best regards to all, -Stuart - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Improved 3D Clouds patch ( further invesigations )
Hello, Imposters would be good, if they worked :( I think our current clouds if they had slightly better textures and smoother alpha blending would look pretty good. The tools are there for anyone to take a look at and help improve. I'm not very good with GIMP, so I'm hoping that someone else can spend some time improving them. There are details of the XML format in data/Docs/README.3DClouds There is only thing I miss, or can't see it really- are the clouds moving due to the wind? I know that the old clouds did this... Cheers HHS - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Improved 3D Clouds patch ( further invesigations )
One thing that Mark Harris' clouds considered was lighting I believe. Portions of the cloud that were shaded were darker and portions of the cloud most exposed to the sun light were lighter. I don't know the exact algorithm, but I believe he was doing some extra work with lighting. Then all of that was cooked into an imposter. I think our current clouds if they had slightly better textures and smoother alpha blending would look pretty good. But there's always more than can be done. :-) Curt. On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 9:15 AM, Manuel Massing wrote: Hi Roman, I played with 3D clouds patch in my sandbox and forgive me if I'm not familiar with whole flightgear/simgear system. Now I try modify existing code of 3Dclouds to pointsprite usage. Roman I am not sure point sprites are a good solution here... Altough they're put to good use in small-scale particle systems with high vertex counts (e.g. something like Mark Harris' cloud rendering), they're probably not so well suited for this implementation (based on Niniane Wangs' Paper, AFAICT), where clouds are modeled at a somewhat coarser scale. For example, point sprites are clipped like points (at least according to spec), so billboards will pop into/out of view as the center vertex crosses the viewport. Perspective-correct point size scaling is possible by fiddling with the point size attenuation, but still the billboards are constrained to be square and to be aligned with the imaging plane, so we would loose some flexibility in modelling the clouds. I think the current system would be better optimized by using impostors, because performance is probably impacted more by pixel throughput than by geometry (which btw might perform better by using arrays instead of single quad draw calls in CloudShaderGeometry.cxx). Would be interested in your benchmarks anyway - what I said being mostly theoretical :-) Manuel - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Curtis Olson: http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/ - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Improved 3D Clouds patch ( further invesigations )
On lundi 10 novembre 2008, Stuart Buchanan wrote: Our 3D clouds perform similar lighting calculations. The cloud texture is lit based on the dot product of it's position relative to the center of the cloud mass, and the lighting vector. So the sprites on side of the cloud facing away from the light are darker. yes we have it a snapshot is better than a long description :) http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/3DClouds-img7.jpg Like all good effects, it is quite subtle, and only really obvious when you play with the time acceleration. Perhaps I need to make it more obvious? Independently, we also darken the bottom of cloud masses relative to the top. This is configured through the cloudlayers.xml file. Then all of that was cooked into an imposter. Imposters would be good, if they worked :( The tools are there for anyone to take a look at and help improve. I'm not very good with GIMP, so I'm hoping that someone else can spend some time improving them. There are details of the XML format in data/Docs/README.3DClouds -Stuart Cheers -- Gérard http://pagesperso-orange.fr/GRTux/ J'ai décidé d'être heureux parce que c'est bon pour la santé. Voltaire - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Improved 3D Clouds patch ( further invesigations )
Heiko Schulz wrote: There is only thing I miss, or can't see it really- are the clouds moving due to the wind? I know that the old clouds did this... Not yet.That's on my list of things to solve next. -Stuart - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
