Re: AI development plans (Was: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Multiplayer voice comunication)
On Thursday 05 January 2006 23:44, Paul Surgeon wrote: On Thursday 05 January 2006 21:13, Durk Talsma wrote: I haven't firmly decided yet, but I'm considering starting to tackle airway following code, which is in a way quite similar to the ground network. Now that would be amazing. No other desktop sim has AI flying realistic flightplans along airways. The only other desktop FlightSim I know in fair detail is MSFS, and fact that all AI traffic follows straight point to point routes drives me nuts. Especially when Flying across continental Europe with the major project AI airlines packages installed, which results in major proximity alerts about every five minutes. There are still a few gotcha's to think about, to prevent ridiculous routing, but the general idea is to find a way through the airway network stored in data/Navaids/awy.dat.gz in a way much similar to the trace algorithm used in src/Airports/groundnetwork.[ch]xx Once a good route is found, it can be stored in a cache directory on disk, so its' available for fast access. Cheers, Durk Of course we may not be flying airways in real life for much longer with all the GPS and automated routing ideas floating around. Maybe GPS direct isn't so far fetched after all. Paul --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7637alloc_id=16865op=click ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7637alloc_id=16865op=click ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: AI development plans (Was: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Multiplayer voice comunication)
On Friday 06 January 2006 00:38, Dave Culp wrote: On Thursday 05 January 2006 04:46 pm, Curtis L. Olson wrote: Also, who ever is developing and working on the MP and AI code: PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE! Please consider users with multiple display channels driven from multiple computeres synced together over the network. I can consider it all I want, but unless I win the lottery I won't be able to test this :) Maybe you'll just have to disable that stuff, or find a developer who is able to test it. Dave Well I guess, a basic solution would be to have a master/slave mode for the AIModels subsystem, where the master computer does the intelligent AIModels work, and sends the resulting data across the network. The remaining computers, wouldn't have the AIModels system do anything, except process the incoming data. I don't think that this scenario would be impossible to implement, and has actually some attractive advantages (for example, the master AIModels computer could be configured to emphasize AImodels processing, at the cost of graphics display functions, it it were to be run on a system that was hooked up to the network, but not part of the display system). Like Dave, however, I don't have enough computer resource available to test this, so we would need to depend on a developer with the means to actually test this. Curt, I know how extremely busy you are, but would you be willing to test this, once we get to the point where this might become a reality? Cheers, Durk --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7637alloc_id=16865op=click ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: AI development plans (Was: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Multiplayer voice comunication)
On Thu, 2006-01-05 at 23:37 +, Lee Elliott wrote: On Thursday 05 Jan 2006 22:46, Curtis L. Olson wrote: Martin Spott wrote: Hello Durk, Durk Talsma wrote: I still haven't firmly decided how ATC should interact with AI traffic, but that these systems should be integrated has always been part of my overarching design plan. Since my AI developments are based on extending the AIModels code, this would naturally move toward a fully integrated system. To me it's obvious why MP and AI are partially going to be merged some day, because both are 'exterior' sources of aircraft movement from the FlightGear users' point of view. If you think of integrating ATC with AI as well, then please keep in mind that a special situation arises because we are unlikely to convince AI aircraft to listen to 'human' ATC :-) Also, who ever is developing and working on the MP and AI code: PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE! Please consider users with multiple display channels driven from multiple computeres synced together over the network. Nothing is more embarassing (well maybe I shouldn't say nothing) than demoing the new sim software on a 6 screen visual system flightgear based simulator and having 6 independent ATC/Tower communications sessions going (one on each screen) and then having different airplanes appear on one screen and not on any of the others. Please consider some way to replicate the MP/AI traffic across multiple visual channels, perhaps slave from one master machine that communicates with the outside MP server. Thanks! Curt. I was just wondering if pigeon's FG map web-site could be adapted to function as a radar and had started to think about how it might be nice to include AI traffic as well when the problem of inconsistent AI aircraft that you mentioned above occurred to me:) My thoughts was to use the interface and code from air traffic controller (airtraf hereafter, I didn't want to re-use the acronym atc) (airtraffic.sf.net) for client. I don't believe that we want the atc server integrated into flightgear itself as the regional rules differ between countries and even perferred runway. I see it as airtraf-client optionally talks to airtraf-server which talks to fg-server and then to the appropriate users. Airtraf supposedly will function automatically when there are no human users connected. Perhaps a possible solution would be for the MP server to generate AI traffic and for local AI traffic to be switched off when connected to an MP server. Better, might be for MP to be disabled if the player selects AI traffic. For the multi-system type set-up you're using for your 6 screen configuration there would have to be some way of nominating one of the systems to take on the MP AI role, with the remaining systems treating it as an MP server. I'm not getting involved in this point as I feel I'm not suitably qualified. Anyway, I have emailed the project leader for his(??) opinion on the matter. If I get shouted down here, then so be it. :-P Regards --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7637alloc_id=16865op=click ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: AI development plans (Was: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Multiplayer voice comunication)
Hello Durk, Durk Talsma wrote: I still haven't firmly decided how ATC should interact with AI traffic, but that these systems should be integrated has always been part of my overarching design plan. Since my AI developments are based on extending the AIModels code, this would naturally move toward a fully integrated system. To me it's obvious why MP and AI are partially going to be merged some day, because both are 'exterior' sources of aircraft movement from the FlightGear users' point of view. If you think of integrating ATC with AI as well, then please keep in mind that a special situation arises because we are unlikely to convince AI aircraft to listen to 'human' ATC :-) Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7637alloc_id=16865op=click ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: AI development plans (Was: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Multiplayer voice comunication)
Am Donnerstag, 5. Januar 2006 23:32 schrieb Martin Spott: To me it's obvious why MP and AI are partially going to be merged some day, because both are 'exterior' sources of aircraft movement from the FlightGear users' point of view. If you think of integrating ATC with AI as well, then please keep in mind that a special situation arises because we are unlikely to convince AI aircraft to listen to 'human' ATC :-) Hi Martin, I don't believe that this is a problem at all. We can mask a aircraft as AI so that a human controller knows, he has to command the aircraft only by text. Where by text means the command window - For lazy controllers this windows also creates readable text messages when the command is for a human pilot and sends this over network/whatever... Karsten --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7637alloc_id=16865op=click ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: AI development plans (Was: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Multiplayer voice comunication)
On Thursday 05 January 2006 21:13, Durk Talsma wrote: I haven't firmly decided yet, but I'm considering starting to tackle airway following code, which is in a way quite similar to the ground network. Now that would be amazing. No other desktop sim has AI flying realistic flightplans along airways. Of course we may not be flying airways in real life for much longer with all the GPS and automated routing ideas floating around. Maybe GPS direct isn't so far fetched after all. Paul --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7637alloc_id=16865op=click ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: AI development plans (Was: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Multiplayer voice comunication)
Martin Spott wrote: Hello Durk, Durk Talsma wrote: I still haven't firmly decided how ATC should interact with AI traffic, but that these systems should be integrated has always been part of my overarching design plan. Since my AI developments are based on extending the AIModels code, this would naturally move toward a fully integrated system. To me it's obvious why MP and AI are partially going to be merged some day, because both are 'exterior' sources of aircraft movement from the FlightGear users' point of view. If you think of integrating ATC with AI as well, then please keep in mind that a special situation arises because we are unlikely to convince AI aircraft to listen to 'human' ATC :-) Also, who ever is developing and working on the MP and AI code: PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE! Please consider users with multiple display channels driven from multiple computeres synced together over the network. Nothing is more embarassing (well maybe I shouldn't say nothing) than demoing the new sim software on a 6 screen visual system flightgear based simulator and having 6 independent ATC/Tower communications sessions going (one on each screen) and then having different airplanes appear on one screen and not on any of the others. Please consider some way to replicate the MP/AI traffic across multiple visual channels, perhaps slave from one master machine that communicates with the outside MP server. Thanks! Curt. -- Curtis Olsonhttp://www.flightgear.org/~curt HumanFIRST Program http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/ FlightGear Project http://www.flightgear.org Unique text:2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7637alloc_id=16865op=click ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: AI development plans (Was: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Multiplayer voice comunication)
On Thursday 05 January 2006 04:46 pm, Curtis L. Olson wrote: Also, who ever is developing and working on the MP and AI code: PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE! Please consider users with multiple display channels driven from multiple computeres synced together over the network. I can consider it all I want, but unless I win the lottery I won't be able to test this :) Maybe you'll just have to disable that stuff, or find a developer who is able to test it. Dave --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7637alloc_id=16865op=click ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: AI development plans (Was: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Multiplayer voice comunication)
Curtis L. Olson writes: Also, who ever is developing and working on the MP and AI code: PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE! :-) Please consider users with multiple display channels driven from multiple computeres synced together over the network. Nothing is more embarassing (well maybe I shouldn't say nothing) than demoing the new sim software on a 6 screen visual system flightgear based simulator and having 6 independent ATC/Tower communications sessions going (one on each screen) and then having different airplanes appear on one screen and not on any of the others. ATC should be easy - simply disable it on all but one display. AI is more tricky - I guess ideally you would like the AI aircraft to pass seamlessly from one monitor to another as it crosses the FOV. Hmmm. Cheers - Dave --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7637alloc_id=16865op=click ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
