Re: [Fonts] Problem of Xft2
From: Pablo Saratxaga [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Fonts] Problem of Xft2 Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2003 18:32:34 +0200 The right and wrong of a toolkit become clear when using Xft2. For me, Qt is the only choice when using Xft2. So I do I feel exactly the opposite: as Qt doesn't have automatic fontset mechanism, I very often end with characters displayed as empty white squares, giving unreadable text. When I used Qt version 3.0.x, I saw many empty white squares. It was quite insufficient. But in version 3.1.x, almost all problems are solved. So the usefulness of Xft2 takes a step forward. Gtk may choose automatically a font that looks funny, but at least a character is always displayed in a readable way, I prefer it that way. Automatic only is quite insufficient. We do not want to see mismatched glyphs. That being said, it would be nice to have the ability to do user-configuration of glyph substitutions in gtk2; eg telling that when a given font is choosen, then characters of range 0x00-0xff should be ignored, and taken from font instead. The ascii range of some CJK fonts is simply too ugly... or even bugged in some cases. Yes. You know CJK environment very well. In addition, there are few CJK fonts which have PROPORTIONAL ascii glyphs. But the alphabet should be displayed by proportional except terminal and editor. When I use Konqueror, I set Nimbus Sans l as default font. Of course, Nimbus Sans l does not have CJK glyphs. So I set a CJK fonts which matchs it to Font Substitution. Then characters of the ascii range in CJK font are ignored, we can get the proper style of pages. Perhaps the approach of fontset will become obsolete. I cannot understand details, but I have a feeling that the approach of Font Substitution simplifies the mechanism of CJK support. Therefore probably Qt introduced Font Substitution. Anyway, the combination of Xft2 and Gtk2 is the worst. For me, the combination is THE POOR THING. Doesn't XFree86 provide a Font Substitution mechanism for Xft2? This will be a heavy weight for development of toolkit. I think that XFree86 should provide a standard library for it, or Xft2 will not advance. Chisato Yamauchi ___ Fonts mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/fonts
[Fonts] Re: After-XTT's extension of the encoding field.
On Thu, 7 Aug 2003, Mike FABIAN wrote: Jungshik Shin [EMAIL PROTECTED] : On Sat, 2 Aug 2003, Chisato Yamauchi wrote: Have you seen CJK's *TYPICAL* fonts.dir of TrueType fonts? It is following: Not many people would be fond of tweaking fonts.dir/scale files these days :-) It can be automatically generated. The /usr/sbin/fonts-config script on SuSE Linux generates such TTCap entries automatically into the fonts.dir if it detects that xtt is enabled in /etc/X11/XF86Config. That sounds nice. It'll certainly make things easier. However, it could make some people frustrated if it just overwrites the existing fonts.dir (I don't know whether fonts-config on SuSE Linux does that or not) that was 'hand-tweaked' to their satisfaction. In the past, I made it a rule to back up fonts.dir/fonts.scale after losing heavily customized fonts.dir/fonts.scale to an automated tool a couple of times. I agree that the old X fonts are broken beyond repair and we should move on to use fontconfig/Xft as much as possible. The old font system must be kept for backwards compatibility of course but it is probably just a waste of effort to add more extensions the X11 core font system. Much better said than mine. This is exactly what I meant but apparently my choice of words was not that good. If I had thought that support for X11 core fonts need to be removed _now_, I wouldn't have spent my time on gb18030.2000-1 issue (Xfree86 bug 441) let alone fixing bugs in CJK font encoding files for freetype module last year. Jungshik ___ Fonts mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/fonts
Re: [Fonts] Re: Problem of Xft2
On Sat, 9 Aug 2003, Jungshik Shin wrote:
On Fri, 8 Aug 2003, Pablo Saratxaga wrote:
That being said, it would be nice to have the ability to do
user-configuration
of glyph substitutions in gtk2; eg telling that when a given font is
choosen, then characters of range 0x00-0xff should be ignored, and taken
from font instead. The ascii range of some CJK fonts is simply
too ugly... or even bugged in some cases.
That doesn't need to be that complex. Simply allowing CSS-style
fontlist is more than enough. That is, offering a UI for specifying an
_ordered_ list of fonts (instead of just one font, generic or specific)
should work well. That is, by putting a good Latin(-only) font, a
Cyrillic(-only) font, and a Greek(-only) font before a CJK font followed
by a generic font (e.g. Serif), you can get the best of all fonts.
This UI needs to be a part of the system-wide 'control panel'.
I have to correct myself. This does not work well when font selection
is done in tandem with 'lang' ('lang' given a very large weight) and
_without_ actually going through a run of text to render, which is often
the case.
What you described may be necessary in the following scenario. Suppose we
specify Courier, MingLiu' for a block of text marked as 'zh-TW'. Because
Latin letters in CJK fonts are not so good, we specify 'Courier' before
'MingLiu' expecting Latin letters to be rendered by Courier and Chinese
characters to be rendered by MingLiu[1]. If the font selection is made
solely based on the font list (ordered) and lang. (with 'lang' given a
large weight), only 'MingLiu' would be selected because 'zh-TW' is not
covered by Courier. As a result, all characters end up being rendered by
MingLiu. Char-by-char font selection doesn't have this problem. However,
it's likely to be slower. Going through a run of text before choosing
a font/a set of fonts may work better but it may be even slower. Staying
in a single font as long as possible is another possibility.
Of course, if 'lang' is not taken into account and just the ordered
list of fonts is used in glyph/font search, we'd not have the above
problem. On the other hand, unless the font list is carefully selected,
one may get ransom-note style rendering in some cases.
Jungshik
[1] In some case, exactly the opposite is desired under the premise that
glyphs of Latin letters in a CJK font are designed to match well with
CJK characters in the font. This works well just as it is now.
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Re: [Fonts] After-XTT's extension of the encoding field.
David Dawes writes: Just so people don't get the wrong idea about what XFree86 is doing, core (server-side) font support will continue to be supported and maintained while ever there are sections of our user base that need it. The same is true of our inclusion of the 'xtt' module as an alternative to the 'freetype' module. Indeed core fonts should continued to be supported so that legacy application continue to work as they do today. However one should carefully deliberated if the functionality of the core fonts should still be extended as has been done in the past. This has not improved the quatlity of the code and introduced some very questionable hacks. These questionable hacks should be fixed or removed as they introduce instabilities or lead to unexpected results. Non BMP planes in XLFD hasn't been addressed by XFree86 because it wasn't a pressing issue for anyone. It is being addressed now via this discussion. Since few people seem to be interested in this issue, and if the death of XLFD is imminent, then it's probably good enough for those who are interested to agree on how to handle it according to their needs. Care must be taken not to introduce more 'hacks' which may have unexpected side effects. Estimating these side effects was the reason why I started this discussion here. Yeah, TTCap is useful, but it appears that we're trying to solve the wrong problem turning away from the real issue. The real problem is that we don't have quality CJK fonts in multiple styles. A practical engineering solution is about getting the results you need today with the resources available. It doesn't matter if TTCap one day becomes unnecessary because of the availability of better fonts. Indeed. Those used to plethora of font styles available for latin character sets don't realize the pain of those who need fonts with more than 256 glyphs. Generating fonts for asian character sets takes much more effort, therefore it can be expected that TTCap will remain a valid 'workaround' for a long time. Egbert. ___ Fonts mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/fonts
Re: [Fonts] Re: After-XTT's extension of the encoding field.
On Fri, 8 Aug 2003, Mike FABIAN wrote: Jungshik Shin [EMAIL PROTECTED] : On Thu, 7 Aug 2003, Mike FABIAN wrote: It can be automatically generated. The /usr/sbin/fonts-config script on SuSE Linux generates such TTCap entries automatically into the make some people frustrated if it just overwrites the existing fonts.dir (I don't know whether fonts-config on SuSE Linux does that or not) Yes, it does. details on how Mike's font-config script works... snipped Thanks you for the details. It seems that you gave a lot of thought to the script and that it meets my need (if I have to tweak fonts.scale/dir files ever again :-)) Jungshik ___ Fonts mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/fonts
[Fonts] Re: Problem of Xft2
On Fri, 8 Aug 2003, Pablo Saratxaga wrote: On Fri, Aug 08, 2003 at 06:59:43PM +0900, Chisato Yamauchi wrote: But Gtk2 has not complete font-substitution mechanism. Therefore, Gtk2 is insufficient in CJK environment. GTk2, using pango, has builtin fontset mechanism. (it is always enabled, and automatically build, depending on language and language coverage of available fonts). Certainly this is true as long as you use Pango, but not all Gtk2 applications use Pango. Moreover, the font selection widget in Gtk2 does not have the UI to let users specify multiple fonts (CSS-like). Apparently, Qt has this UI according to Yamuchi-san. So I *NEVER* use Gtk2-mozilla. It has no flexibility of a font setting. Mozilla doesn't use Gtk2/pango text rendering mechanisms to render html pages. So, you cannot judge the font abilities of Gtk2 toolkit with mozilla. Well, when rendering html/xml pages, Mozilla has its own 'fontset/font substitution' mechanism of a sort (based on fontconfig in case of Xft build. X11core build is very complicated partly because it has to support the CSS-style font list in its own without any help of fontconfig fielding through 'the jungle of XLFD-based fontnames.) that is very similar to what you wrote above about Pango. Otherwise, how could it support CSS-style font list? Gtk may choose automatically a font that looks funny, but at least a character is always displayed in a readable way, I prefer it that way. I guess just saying Gtk(2) is a bit misleading. Gnome-terminal is a Gtk(2) application, but by default it doesn't use Pango and it does not do 'automatic font substitution' as you described. Set Gnome-terminal font to 'Courier' and see how CJK characters (or any character not covered by Courier) are rendered. They all come in empty boxes. That being said, it would be nice to have the ability to do user-configuration of glyph substitutions in gtk2; eg telling that when a given font is choosen, then characters of range 0x00-0xff should be ignored, and taken from font instead. The ascii range of some CJK fonts is simply too ugly... or even bugged in some cases. That doesn't need to be that complex. Simply allowing CSS-style fontlist is more than enough. That is, offering a UI for specifying an _ordered_ list of fonts (instead of just one font, generic or specific) should work well. That is, by putting a good Latin(-only) font, a Cyrillic(-only) font, and a Greek(-only) font before a CJK font followed by a generic font (e.g. Serif), you can get the best of all fonts. This UI needs to be a part of the system-wide 'control panel'. Falling short of that, applications like Gnome-terminal should at least (the same is true of Konsole) offer a way to specify East Asian font separately (double/full-width) as is done by xterm, vim, OpenOffice and MS Office. Because Gnome-terminal and Konsole don't have this feature, I still prefer to work in xterm for which I can specify my favorite font for single-width characters along with my favorite font for double-width characters (with '-fw' option. I'm gonna add '-faw' option to xterm) Jungshik ___ Fonts mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/fonts
[Fonts] AWARD NOTIFICATION
C/GUZMAN EL BUENO,137 MADRID - ESPANA TEL: +34-669 051 095, FAX:+34 916 640 223 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] FROM: THE DESK OF THE PROMOTIONS MANAGER, INTERNATIONAL PROMOTIONS/PRIZE AWARD DEPARTMENT, REF: LP/26510460037/03 BATCH: 24/00319/IPD RE: AWARD NOTIFICATION FINAL NOTICE We are pleased to inform you of the release today, 9th August 2003,of the Lottery La Primitiva /INTER-NATIONAL PROGRAMS held on the 2nd August,2003. Your name attached to ticket number 025 11464992-750 with serial number 0362 drew the winning number 2 17 22 24 26 42, which consequently won the lottery in the 3rd category. You are therefore been approve for the lump sum pay out of uros 1.327.759.72 (one millon three hundred and twentyseven thousand seven hundred and fiftynine and seventy two cent) in cash credit to the file REF: LP/26510460037/03. This is from a total prize of uros 3,000,000.00 share among the seventeen (17) International winners in this category. CONGRATULATION! Your fund is now deposited with a Security Company EURO CREDIT COMMISION. Due to the mixed up of some numbers and names, we ask that you keep this award a top secret from the public notice until your claim as been processed and your prize money remitted to your account as this is a part of our Security protocol to avoid double claiming award or unwarranted taking advantage of this program by participants. All participants were selected through a computer ballot system drawn from 25,000 names from Australia, USA, Europe, Asia ,New Zealand, Middle-East and South-North America .As part of our international promotions program, which we conducted once in a year. We hope with a part of your prize, you will take part in our end of the year high stake uros 300 Million International Lottery. To being your claim, please contact the issuing authority, your prize claim agent, Mr. James smith, (Foreign Service Manager) for processing and remittance of your prize money to a designated account of your choice. Tel: +34 -645633391.Email:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Remember, all prize money must be claimed not later than 30th August, 2003. After this date, all funds will be returned as unclaimed. Note: In order to avoid unnecessary delays and complications, please remember to quote your reference and batch numbers in every of your correspondence with your agent. Furthermore, should there be any address do inform your claims agent as soon as possible. on the website www.thelotter.com Please remember to ask for your prize claim certificate. Congratulation again from all member of our staff and thank you for being part of our promotion program. Best regards, MARIA JOSE SANCHEZ ___ Fonts mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/fonts
[Fonts] Re: After-XTT's extension of the encoding field.
Jungshik Shin [EMAIL PROTECTED] $B$5$s$O=q$-$^$7$?(B: (B (B On Sat, 2 Aug 2003, Chisato Yamauchi wrote: (B (B Have you seen CJK's *TYPICAL* fonts.dir of TrueType fonts? (B It is following: (B (B Not many people would be fond of tweaking fonts.dir/scale files (B these days :-) (B (BIt can be automatically generated. The /usr/sbin/fonts-config script (Bon SuSE Linux generates such TTCap entries automatically into the (Bfonts.dir if it detects that xtt is enabled in /etc/X11/XF86Config. (B (BCurrently it generates only entries for artifical bold and italic (Bfor fonts which do not yet have real bold and italic versions. (B (BI could extended it to support more features of TTCap, but I'm not (Bsure whether it is worth the effort. (B (BI agree that the old X fonts are broken beyond repair and we should (Bmove on to use fontconfig/Xft as much as possible. (B (BThe old font system must be kept for backwards compatibility of course (Bbut it is probably just a waste of effort to add more extensions the (BX11 core font system. (B (B-- (BMike Fabian [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.suse.de/~mfabian $B?gL2ITB-$O;E;v$NE([EMAIL PROTECTED](B (B___ (BFonts mailing list (B[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bhttp://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/fonts
Re: [Fonts] After-XTT's extension of the encoding field.
Chisato Yamauchi writes: OK, so you are not selecting different ranges but different files? Is it a standard procedure to distribute one font accross several files or was the single file just split into separate ones just to avoid blowing up the XFontStruct? GT fonts is a quite special fonts. The code ranges of all files follow that of jisx0208. There is Konjakumojikyo fonts which inclues over 10 glyphs in Japan. Although I have not tried it yet, it seems that it also use the existing code set and all glyphs are divided into many files. This definitely drives core fonts to the edge. Core fonts were not designed for that. Although the pliability of handling such special fonts is also important, non BMP plane in XLFD is now the most important problem. Confusion is already seen such as linux-utf8 list. An official definition should be indicated right now. Why has XFree86 left this? Two further issues: 1. would it be possible to convert xtt to use freetype2 instead of freetype1? This would allow us to remove the freetype1 sources from the tree. Would it be possible to do that? Why do we persist in X-TT? The reason is that libfreetype.a does not useful at all in CJK. Especially the following two points are fatal. - Handling a proportional multi-bytes fonts is too slow. (The loading speed of libfreetype.a is 20 times slower than that of X-TT 1.4; I show a benchmark in next email.) - The modification of a font(such as auto italic and double striking, etc.) cannot be used at all. That is, libfreetype.a should also have all options of TTCap. I would agree that these are valid issues. Has anybody looked at merging these XTT functionalities into the freetype module? Egbert. ___ Fonts mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/fonts
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[Fonts] CONFIDENTIAL MATTER
From: Mrs Magreth Hatch PLEASE ENDEAVOUR TO USE IT FOR THE CHILDREN OF GOD. I am the above named person from Kuwait. I am married to Mr. Kazeem Hatch who worked with Kuwait embassy in Ivory Coast for nine years before he died in the year 2001. We were married for eleven years without a child. He died after a brief illness that lasted for only four days. Before his death we were both born again Christians.When my late husband was alive he deposited the sum of$10.5Million (Ten Million five hundred thousand U.S. Dollars) with one Pinnacle Finance/Security Company in Spain. Presently, this money is still with the Security Company. Recently, my Doctor told me that I would not last for the next three months due to cancer problem. Though what disturbs me most is my stroke. Having known my condition I decided to donate this fund to church or better still a christian individual that will utilize this money the way I am going to instruct here in. I want a church that will use this fund to fund churches, orphanages,Research centers and widows propagating the word of God and to ensure that the house of God is maintained. The Bible made us to understand that Blessed is the hand that giveth. I took this decision because I dont have any child that will inherit this money and my husband relatives are not Christians and I dont want my husbands hard earned money to be misused by unbelievers. I dont want a situation where this money will be used in an ungodly manner. Hence the reason for taking this bold decision. I am not afraid of death hence I know where I am going. I know that I am going to be in the bossom of the Lord. Exodus 14 VS 14 says that the lord will fight my case and I shall hold my peace. I dont need any telephone communication in this regard because of my health because of the presence of my husbands relatives around me always. I dont want them to know about this development. With God all things are possible. As soon as I receive your reply I shall give you the contact of the Pinnacle Finance/Security Company in spain . I will also issue you a letter of authority that will empower you as the new beneficiary of this fund. I want you and the church to always pray for me because the lord is my shephard. My happiness is that I lived a life of a worthy Christian. Whoever that wants to serve the Lord must serve him in spirit and truth. Please always be prayerful all through your life. Any delay in your reply will give me room in sourcing for a church or christian individual for this same purpose. Please assure me that you will act accordingly as I stated herein. Hoping to hear from you. Remain blessed in the name of the Lord. Yours in christ, Mrs Magreth Hatch. ___ Fonts mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/fonts
[Fonts] Re: Terminal versus X11 fonts
On Thu, 7 Aug 2003, Steve Sullivan wrote: For example, the Terminal edit current profile gui shows the Miriam font, but Miriam isn't listed by xfontsel or xlsfonts. There are two separate font systems, the X11 core font system and the client-side system with Xft/fontconfig. What you get with xlsfonts/xfontsel is X11 core fonts. 'Terminal' in RedHat 9 uses the client-side font system (Xft/fontconfig based). You can make Miriam and other fonts available as X11 core fonts with freetype/Xtt/type1 backends if they're of a type supported by them. http://www.xfree86.org/4.3.0/fonts.html has all the gory details about XF86 font systems. For (After) X-TT, see http://x-tt.sourceforge.jp/ A lot of people believe that the client-side font system is the way to go (although the core font system will be around for a long time to come) so that you may consider writing your application with the client-side font system (especially, if I18N - internationalization - is important to your projects/programs). You may also want to take a look at http://fontconfig.org and http://www.pango.org Jungshik ___ Fonts mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/fonts
