[fossil-users] Minor changes for Check-in Names page

2012-12-31 Thread Edward Berner

Hello,

A few minor suggestions for the Check-in Names wiki page 
(http://www.fossil-scm.org/index.html/doc/trunk/www/checkin_names.wiki):


* Should it mention that prev is also accepted as a special name?

* I think ckout doesn't work anymore and should be removed from the 
list.  (See check-in [badb9ff231].)


* Should it mention that some commands also accept latest as a special 
name?  (Currently only update but one could argue that checkout 
should also, for consistency.)


Thanks.

Edward

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Re: [fossil-users] fossil sqlite3

2012-12-31 Thread Petr Ferdus
 Od: Edward Berner e...@bernerfam.com
 Komu: fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org
 Datum: 31.12.2012 08:53
 Předmět: Re: [fossil-users] fossil sqlite3

On 12/30/2012 10:43 PM, Michael Richter wrote:
 Is there any way to execute SQL statements from the command line using 
 fossil sqlite3? The docs for this 
 http://www.fossil-scm.org/xfer/help?cmd=sqlite3 are a bit skimpy (to 
 say the least).  Like what are the /?OPTIONS?/ mentioned, precisely?

 What I'm specifically trying to accomplish is to extract the project 
 ID from the repository in a script file.  If there's another way to do 
 this I'm happy to use that instead, of course.

I think fossil info will get what you're looking for.  eg:

$ ../fossil info -R ~/fossil/test.fossil
project-name: unnamed
project-code: 07660919180b651835b3a51776a58007ca9fb6f9

fossil info calls it project-code but it seems to be the same thing 
that fossil new and fossil clone call project-id.

using  fossil sqlite3:

echo select value as 'project ID' from config where name = 'project-code'; 
statement.sql
fossil sqlite3 -R .\myfossilclone.fossil  .\statement.sql

(myfossilclone.fossil  is my clone of fossil repository)

Peter
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Re: [fossil-users] Fossil vs. Git/Mercurial/etc.?

2012-12-31 Thread Christopher Vance
My understanding is that git rebase is used primarily to produce
patches to be applied onto a particular tag or checkin of a
destination repository, to give the same result as currently in the
source repository, but without requiring the destination to do a git
pull from the source repo, or to only pull a single prettified branch,
rather than the history which made it happen. The source, however must
have done a pull from the destination to get the start point of the
patch.

The essential feature is that the destination repo is somehow cleaner
or of higher status or authority than the source repo. The source repo
holds additional private content, perhaps including messy
time-consuming development, and pulls at least certain content from
the destination from time to time. When the source repo is finally
ready to use, the messy development gets repackaged as a simple
difference from the current state or some known recent state of the
destination.

I can't see what a rebase equivalent in fossil might do, which can't
already be done using fossil diff (if you really want patches), or
using private branches which get merged back into public ones from
time to time, with only the public branches available to pull from.

The fossil way of doing things (to my understanding) is to expose and
preserve all history, while the whole idea of git rebase is to hide
some of the history.

If you really want rebase, you're probably looking in the wrong place,
but I think you can already bend fossil to do it, without needing any
changes to the tool itself.

-- 
Christopher Vance
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Re: [fossil-users] fossil sqlite3

2012-12-31 Thread Michael Richter
On 31 December 2012 15:53, Edward Berner e...@bernerfam.com wrote:

 fossil info calls it project-code but it seems to be the same thing
 that fossil new and fossil clone call project-id.


Waitwhat?  My version of Fossil (This is fossil version 1.25 [558a17a686]
2012-12-22 13:48:31 UTC) doesn't show anything about project-id for
fossil new/clone.

-- 
Perhaps people don't believe this, but throughout all of the discussions
of entering China our focus has really been what's best for the Chinese
people. It's not been about our revenue or profit or whatnot.
--Sergey Brin, demonstrating the emptiness of the don't be evil mantra.
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Re: [fossil-users] fossil sqlite3

2012-12-31 Thread Edward Berner

On 12/31/2012 12:24 AM, Michael Richter wrote:
On 31 December 2012 15:53, Edward Berner e...@bernerfam.com 
mailto:e...@bernerfam.com wrote:


fossil info calls it project-code but it seems to be the same
thing that fossil new and fossil clone call project-id.


Waitwhat?  My version of Fossil (This is fossil version 1.25 
[558a17a686] 2012-12-22 13:48:31 UTC) doesn't show anything about 
project-id for fossil new/clone.




What do you get when you create a test repository?  It should, I think, 
display the project-id, etc., after creating the repository. eg:


$ ./fossil new test.fossil
project-id: 2d7cade36dce2af94df648e178d588e5a3b00a14
server-id:  af94c0a2462bc18103a19c20fd0b3918c3f9a2a3
admin-user: erb (initial password is 811b05)

--
Edward

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Re: [fossil-users] Fossil vs. Git/Mercurial/etc.?

2012-12-31 Thread Nico Williams
[Sorry to break threading, but I unsubscribed, then saw this in the
archives and re-subscribed just to answer, but I don't have the
Message-ID.]

On Sun, Dec 30, 2012, Joerg Sonnenberger wrote:
On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 02:05:38PM -0600, Nico Williams wrote:
  I repeat: git rebase does not manipulate the pre-existing tree, it
  does not destroy any history already in the tree.  The only
  destructive action that git rebase does is change the commit that a
  branch _name_ points to, and from a fossil philosophy perspective this
  is the only aspect of git rebase that is worth differing on.


 git rebase is destructive due to a combination of not supporting more
 than one leave revision for a given named tag and dropping all other
 revisions on a non-fastforward push. Now a combination of recording what
 a rebase is based on and just marking the original commit as closed
 would pretty much serve the purpose of fossil.

I'm very glad you mentioned this.  I really would like git rebase (and
any equivalents in other VCSes) to add an empty commit whose message
contains: the old base commit hash, the new base commit has, and the
rebase recipe (i.e., the pick/squash/fixup/edit/... instructions,
including the commit hashes of dropped commits).

Also, I'd like to be able to ask about previous rebasings of a given
branch and be able to name them, something like branchname%N, where N
is the Nth previous rebasing.  This way I could checkout, diff, ...
old versions of a branch.  And then there'd be no need to create a
copy of the victim branch prior to rebasing.

This alternative to my first proposal strikes me as particularly
useful.  Thank you for mentioning it.

Nico
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Re: [fossil-users] fossil sqlite3

2012-12-31 Thread Michael Richter
On 31 December 2012 17:27, Edward Berner e...@bernerfam.com wrote:

 Waitwhat?  My version of Fossil (This is fossil version 1.25 [558a17a686]
 2012-12-22 13:48:31 UTC) doesn't show anything about project-id for
 fossil new/clone.


 What do you get when you create a test repository?  It should, I think,
 display the project-id, etc., after creating the repository. eg:

 $ ./fossil new test.fossil
 project-id: 2d7cade36dce2af94df648e178d588**e5a3b00a14
 server-id:  af94c0a2462bc18103a19c20fd0b39**18c3f9a2a3
 admin-user: erb (initial password is 811b05)


Ah.  I misunderstood.  I thought you meant there was a command line option
related to the project ID.

-- 
Perhaps people don't believe this, but throughout all of the discussions
of entering China our focus has really been what's best for the Chinese
people. It's not been about our revenue or profit or whatnot.
--Sergey Brin, demonstrating the emptiness of the don't be evil mantra.
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Re: [fossil-users] Fossil vs. Git/Mercurial/etc.?

2012-12-31 Thread Nico Williams
On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 9:41 PM, Mike Meyer m...@mired.org wrote:
 Nico Williams n...@cryptonector.com wrote:
Go back through those 30 posts you mentioned.  Go back to the very
first one from me.  I tried to be concise and wrote just three
paragraphs that, IMO, captured what was needed.  I certainly did not
say I want git rebase in fossil and then watched the fireworks --
no, I explained *concisely* (or at least that was my aim).

 No, you said I want something slightly different than git rebase in fossil. 
 Concise? Yes. Precise? No. Well-defined? No. Useful? No.

I unsubscribed.  I resubscribed to answer Joerg's very useful comment,
and to address your insinuation that I've been trolling:

If I had written a ten-page post explaining in excruciating detail
[...]

 That depends on the goal. If you want to troll the list, then arguing for 
 rebase is a good choice. If you want fossil to incorporate a solution for 
 your problem, you should provide the information people are asking for. Given 
 how poorly your attempt to work with the comunity has gone, giving up now 
 isn't an unreasonable option. On the other hand, if you want to be able to 
 use fossil, and are willing to work with us to solve your problem instead of 
 arguing about what rebase does, you can start by answering our questions.

I was going to let you have the last word, and, indeed, I will since I
will re-unsubscribe shortly.  But I feel I must at least address this
insinuation that I was trolling.  I think any reasonable human being
reviewing this thread will conclude that I've been sincere.  I've
explained in detail, and I've answered the questions that have been
raised, such as here:

http://www.mail-archive.com/fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org/msg10591.html

and here:

http://www.mail-archive.com/fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org/msg10593.html

I think those two posts in particular are quite detailed and informative.

Nor did I know that bringing up rebase would arouse fury.  I knew it
was controversial, but not that it was anathema, and I thought I could
make an argument for a variant of rebase that should fit within the
fossil philosophy (and I still think so; e pur si muove).  Thus my
wading in here could not be considered trolling.  If I were to not
give up I might be trolling, but trust me, I give up (unless we hear
from the project's principals anything supportive, or if they ask
questions that I should answer).  Trust me, I feel awful about filling
unknown subscribers inboxes with my responses on this thread, and the
responses those have elicited.

I have found your responses to me to be hostile, and downright silly.
I've also briefly reviewed the rm/mv thread and I find similar
silliness there by various members of the community.  I am frustrated,
and I acknowledge that I've am having trouble hiding my frustration.
But I do think that you have shown an utter lack of hospitality and
open-mindedness.  This is why I will now abandon Fossil, even though
there are many ways in which I think Fossil is superior to the
competition -- your hostility turns me off.

 For instance, you haven't answered any of my questions. You've explained in 
 detail what rebase does, but that's irrelevant, because rebase is only an 
 approximation to what you want, and you haven't explained how what you want 
 is different in sufficient detail for us to figure out what that is. You 
 haven't shown us why the existing solutions are to much work. You haven't 
 said what kind of interface you want (otherr than interactive rebase, and 
 you haven't said what that interface looks like!). You  may think you have, 
 but your opinion here doesn't matter: if we don't have a clear understanding 
 of what you want, we don't have it, and the onus is on you to provide it. The 
 best way to do that is by answering our questions.

These two posts:

http://www.mail-archive.com/fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org/msg10591.html
http://www.mail-archive.com/fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org/msg10593.html

answer your questions and explain in detail what I need to be able to
do and why.  Perhaps you missed them.  You did respond once with this:

http://www.mail-archive.com/fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org/msg10602.html

but you failed at reading comprehension, and by then I was ready to
give up.  But let me answer the one question you raise there:

| I thought I did, but then you said rebase works on one branch.
|
| Except...
|
| So, if we have a branch called trunk with this history:
| A---B---C---D
| and a branch called new-feature with these commits
|
| Uh, that's *two* branches! What happened to rebase working on one branch?

*git* rebase destructively affects ONE branch by making that one
branch name point to a new line of commits that are not fast-forwards
from the previous commit pointed to by that branch name.  The rebase
operation does additionally involve (read-only) an old base and new
base commits.  So, yes, rebase works on one branch.

Rebase as a general 

Re: [fossil-users] Fossil vs. Git/Mercurial/etc.?

2012-12-31 Thread Michal Suchanek
On 31 December 2012 04:41, Mike Meyer m...@mired.org wrote:


 Nico Williams n...@cryptonector.com wrote:
Go back through those 30 posts you mentioned.  Go back to the very
first one from me.  I tried to be concise and wrote just three
paragraphs that, IMO, captured what was needed.  I certainly did not
say I want git rebase in fossil and then watched the fireworks --
no, I explained *concisely* (or at least that was my aim).

 No, you said I want something slightly different than git rebase in fossil. 
 Concise? Yes. Precise? No. Well-defined? No. Useful? No.

If I had written a ten-page post explaining in excruciating detail
what rebase is, why it matters, and how to adapt it to the Fossil
philosophy, who -but who!- would have read that first post?  I was
being (I thought!) considerate.  And judging by last night's 30 posts,
would it have made any difference to post a thesis-length argument for
rebase?  And if so, how was I to know that?  Or should I have given up
at the very first sign of trouble?

 That depends on the goal. If you want to troll the list, then arguing for 
 rebase is a good choice. If you want fossil to incorporate a solution for 
 your problem, you should provide the information people are asking for. Given 
 how poorly your attempt to work with the comunity has gone, giving up now 
 isn't an unreasonable option. On the other hand, if you want to be able to 
 use fossil, and are willing to work with us to solve your problem instead of 
 arguing about what rebase does, you can start by answering our questions.

 For instance, you haven't answered any of my questions. You've explained in 
 detail what rebase does, but that's irrelevant, because rebase is only an 
 approximation to what you want, and you haven't explained how what you want 
 is different in sufficient detail for us to figure out what that is. You 
 haven't shown us why the existing solutions are to much work. You haven't 
 said what kind of interface you want (otherr than interactive rebase, and 
 you haven't said what that interface looks like!). You  may think you have, 
 but your opinion here doesn't matter: if we don't have a clear understanding 
 of what you want, we don't have it, and the onus is on you to provide it. The 
 best way to do that is by answering our questions.

Rebase is a mass cherry-pick script, basically.

You have an upstream trunk U and you branch B and in the simplest form
rebase cherry-picks every single commint in B from the branching point
to the tip one by one on top of U and marks the result as B. As has
been pointed out this marking the result as B is the only destructive
part which loses the original B and is unnecessary.

Now the more involved version allows you to control how commits are
picked. rebase presents you with a rebase recipe which shows the list
of commits in B and all are marked with the default 'pick' which
results with the above basic behaviour. You can edit the recipe to
drop some commits, change the order in which they are picked, mark
some for editing so rebase stops on them, mark some for squashing so
rebase folds them into the previous commit. You can even select if the
commit message of the squashed commit is appended or dropped but to
edit the resulting message you have to run rebase again and mark for
edit.

Git add comes with a tool which allows you to pick only some files or
some hunks from the checkout when creating a commit. It just shows the
changed files and the hunks in the picked files one by one and asks
you which to add. Sadly this tool is quite poorly integrated in git.
When cherry-picking this cannot be used. To actually split a commit
during rebase you have to mark the commit for editing, undo it, and
then add parts of that commit as multiple commits possibly using the
interactive add tool. When the commit adds files this is very
error-prone.

You can see that these tools are not available in fossil and with its
web interface they could be presented in more friendly way than what
the git commandline tools present. You can also see that while git has
them they are not quite stellar.

Thanks

Michal
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Re: [fossil-users] Fossil vs. Git/Mercurial/etc.?

2012-12-31 Thread Jan Danielsson
On 12/31/12 11:17, Nico Williams wrote:
[---]
 But I feel I must at least address this
 insinuation that I was trolling.

   It's obvious that you aren't trolling. You don't have to defend
yourself against such nonsense.

-- 
Kind regards,
Jan Danielsson

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Re: [fossil-users] fossil sqlite3

2012-12-31 Thread Tomek Kott
there might have been email overlap. fossil info also spits out the 
project-id. That's what Petr was saying I believe.
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 17:51:31 +0800
From: ttmrich...@gmail.com
To: fossil-users@lists.fossil-scm.org
Subject: Re: [fossil-users] fossil sqlite3

On 31 December 2012 17:27, Edward Berner e...@bernerfam.com wrote:


Waitwhat?  My version of Fossil (This is fossil version 1.25 [558a17a686] 
2012-12-22 13:48:31 UTC) doesn't show anything about project-id for fossil 
new/clone.





What do you get when you create a test repository?  It should, I think, display 
the project-id, etc., after creating the repository. eg:



$ ./fossil new test.fossil

project-id: 2d7cade36dce2af94df648e178d588e5a3b00a14

server-id:  af94c0a2462bc18103a19c20fd0b3918c3f9a2a3

admin-user: erb (initial password is 811b05)
Ah.  I misunderstood.  I thought you meant there was a command line option 
related to the project ID.


-- 
Perhaps people don't believe this, but throughout all of the discussions of 
entering China our focus has really been what's best for the Chinese people. 
It's not been about our revenue or profit or whatnot.

--Sergey Brin, demonstrating the emptiness of the don't be evil mantra.


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Re: [fossil-users] Fossil vs. Git/Mercurial/etc.?

2012-12-31 Thread Steve Havelka
On 12/31/2012 06:21 AM, Jan Danielsson wrote:
 On 12/31/12 11:17, Nico Williams wrote:
 [---]
 But I feel I must at least address this
 insinuation that I was trolling.
It's obvious that you aren't trolling. You don't have to defend
 yourself against such nonsense.


I agree with Jan.  I also think this thread and the mv/rm hostility
suggest a change in tone for the mailing list which is more than a
little embarrassing.  I'm sorry you felt compelled to unsubscribe, Nico.


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Re: [fossil-users] Fossil vs. Git/Mercurial/etc.?

2012-12-31 Thread Nico Williams
On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 12:01 PM, Steve Havelka yo...@q7.com wrote:
 On 12/31/2012 06:21 AM, Jan Danielsson wrote:
 On 12/31/12 11:17, Nico Williams wrote:
 [---]
 But I feel I must at least address this
 insinuation that I was trolling.
It's obvious that you aren't trolling. You don't have to defend
 yourself against such nonsense.


 I agree with Jan.  I also think this thread and the mv/rm hostility
 suggest a change in tone for the mailing list which is more than a
 little embarrassing.  I'm sorry you felt compelled to unsubscribe, Nico.

I haven't yet re-unsubscribed.  Joerg's note added hope that more
participants might add something of value.  And your and Jan's note
provide much appreciated relief: I'm not alone in finding Mike's
hostility needs calling out.

Thanks!

Nico
--
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Re: [fossil-users] Fossil vs. Git/Mercurial/etc.?

2012-12-31 Thread Michael L. Barrow
I too have been saddened by the two flame wars on this list lately. I have held 
onto the list because Fossil is super valuable to me and I want to stay in the 
loop.

I can only hope that folks will learn to think before hitting reply in the new 
year...


michael at barrow dot me
+1.408.782.4249

-Original Message-
From: Steve Havelka
Sent: 12/31/2012 10:01
To: Fossil SCM user's discussion
Subject: Re: [fossil-users] Fossil vs. Git/Mercurial/etc.?

On 12/31/2012 06:21 AM, Jan Danielsson wrote:
 On 12/31/12 11:17, Nico Williams wrote:
 [---]
 But I feel I must at least address this
 insinuation that I was trolling.
It's obvious that you aren't trolling. You don't have to defend
 yourself against such nonsense.


I agree with Jan.  I also think this thread and the mv/rm hostility
suggest a change in tone for the mailing list which is more than a
little embarrassing.  I'm sorry you felt compelled to unsubscribe, Nico.


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Re: [fossil-users] Fossil vs. Git/Mercurial/etc.?

2012-12-31 Thread Doug Currie

On Dec 31, 2012, at 1:29 PM, Nico Williams n...@cryptonector.com wrote:

 I haven't yet re-unsubscribed.  Joerg's note added hope 

Thank you for explaining rebase. It's not something I've ever needed to do, so 
I was skeptical of its value, and even more skeptical that it would ever be 
adopted by Fossil. While you have not converted me to an advocate, I've learned 
why you find it useful, and how it may be achieved without destroying history. 
I thank you for that, and for trying to be constructive and civil on this 
mailing list. 

e

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Re: [fossil-users] Fossil vs. Git/Mercurial/etc.?

2012-12-31 Thread Jan Danielsson
On 12/31/12 19:52, Doug Currie wrote:
 On Dec 31, 2012, at 1:29 PM, Nico Williams n...@cryptonector.com wrote:
 I haven't yet re-unsubscribed.  Joerg's note added hope 
 Thank you for explaining rebase. It's not something I've ever needed to do, 
 so I was skeptical of its value, and even more skeptical that it would ever 
 be adopted by Fossil. While you have not converted me to an advocate, I've 
 learned why you find it useful, and how it may be achieved without destroying 
 history. I thank you for that, and for trying to be constructive and civil on 
 this mailing list. 

   I wholeheartedly agree (with the entire paragraph).

   I have never used rebase, nor do I see any use for it in my daily
work-flow. That being said, I've thought that about many things in the
past until it was suddenly available to me. (And history is full of such
examples for others as well. (3D acceleration? Linux users used to be
quick to point out that only 1ame g4m3rz and n00bs need it [because it
wasn't available on Linux]. Nowadays some Linux desktops even require 3D
acceleration to run normally)).

   But more importantly, I don't see my current own personal lack of
interest for rebase as a barrier to having the feature in fossil. As
long as it doesn't break the DAG I'm fine (and Nico was clear about that
being the intention). Things makes fossil more appealing and could help
transition users to it from other systems is good in my book.

   Nico and Joerg have made it clear to me, as a rebase n00b, that
there's a very fossil way to have rebase. And if I read Michal Suchanek
correctly, we could even do it better than the arch-typical example of
rebase (git).


   ..and I hope Nico's constructive and civil tone will be an
inspiration to the community going forward.

-- 
Kind regards,
Jan Danielsson

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Re: [fossil-users] Fossil vs. Git/Mercurial/etc.?

2012-12-31 Thread Richard Offer

I concur, the last month has seen a breakdown in the normally friendly 
exchanges.


Might I suggest that we look on tomorrow as a new beginning - after all, we all 
survived the end of the Mayan calendar :-)



This is open source software - so no one owes anyone any support. 

If you want changes then actions speak louder than words, contribute a patch - 
even if its not accepted it shows a level of commitment and understanding of 
the code base. If you can't write code, then for goodness sake don't approach 
those that can/do with anything that could be construed as an expectation of 
paid levels of support. For those that do write the code, not every new idea is 
bad.


Building a community means taking the long view.


Everyone, please remember; a piece of software is not the mother of your 
children, it doesn't need to be defended at all costs.



richard.


On Dec 31, 2012, at 10:34 AM, Michael L. Barrow mich...@barrow.me wrote:

 I too have been saddened by the two flame wars on this list lately. I have 
 held onto the list because Fossil is super valuable to me and I want to stay 
 in the loop.
 
 I can only hope that folks will learn to think before hitting reply in the 
 new year...
 
 
 michael at barrow dot me
 +1.408.782.4249

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Re: [fossil-users] Fossil vs. Git/Mercurial/etc.?

2012-12-31 Thread Mike Meyer
On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 8:21 AM, Jan Danielsson
jan.m.daniels...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 12/31/12 11:17, Nico Williams wrote:
 But I feel I must at least address this
 insinuation that I was trolling.
It's obvious that you aren't trolling. You don't have to defend
 yourself against such nonsense.

At this point, I'd like to apologize the readers of the list,
including Nico. My intent was not to be hostile or insulting.

I was trying to get a description of the functionality he was looking
for in terms of fossil's existing commands to be sure I correctly
understood what he was suggesting. I got frustrated when he repeatedly
ignored the question, and then outright refused to answer it, and
clearly stepped over a line.

Again, my apologies to all concerned.

   mike
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Re: [fossil-users] Fossil vs. Git/Mercurial/etc.?

2012-12-31 Thread Nico Williams
Thanks Mike, I appreciate this.

BTW, I now have a pretty good idea of what fossil rebase would look
like; the discussion was a success, largely thanks to Joerg's insight.
 I've also started looking at src/merge.c to have an idea of how to
implement a version of fossil merge --cherrypick that doesn't commit
the merged changes (this being necessary to implement the interactive
rebase edit-a-commit option, as well as for squashing) -- this is the
essential ingredient, after all, and it seems like all that has to
happen is we need an option to not update any non-temp tables in
merge_cmd().  I think that will be a trivial change, actually, as it'd
be a small modification to the fossil merge --nochange logic.  I'll
stop here.  In six months I may have time to actually implement, and
in the meantime I'll sketch an implementation.

Happy New Year!
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