Re: [Foundation-l] Three short films about Wikipedia
@Kim: Subtitles might be a good way to go. I'll see about putting up the full screenplays, once I've translated them into English. @Phil: Well', we do have some translations (6 at the moment) at http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Bookshelf/Three_Wikipedia_films. We could do the full subtitle translations there as well. Thanks for all your suggestions. Best wishes, Lennart 2011/9/29 Phil Nash phn...@blueyonder.co.uk Kim Bruning wrote: On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 02:02:20PM +0200, Lennart Guldbrandsson wrote: Okay. I hope that I didn't stifle your comment, though. One idea: Feel free to dub in your own voices if you want voices. That could be very cool! Best wishes, Lennart Actually, if this is going to be shown at conferences and such, it might be handier to add subtitles? :-) sincerely, Kim Bruning Seriously, dubbing dialogue, although *kewl*, would be a triumph of hope over experience, and technically and practically infeasible within a sensible timescale, but when it comes to subtitles, the question has to be in how many languages? A good starting point is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_languages, which has Arabic Chinese (Mandarin) English French Russian Spanish (Castilian) as core, but Bengali Hindustani Portuguese Esperanto as proposed. Of these, I would regard languages of the Indian subcontinent as being of higher priority, since (IME) speakers of Spanish can get to grips wth Portuguese at least at a basic level, and Esperanto does not seem to have had the penetration it might deserve. What is perhaps surprising is that Japanese is missing from both these lists, but then perhaps most Japanese are also pretty competent in English these days. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l -- Lennart Guldbrandsson Wikimedia Sverige ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Three short films about Wikipedia
Hi Lennart. Thank you for these. I'll be using the Läraren video on this coming Monday at This Is Not Art. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/Newcastle/TINA2011 The other two are not as obviously about Wikipedia. -- John Vandenberg ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Three short films about Wikipedia
That is a good point, John. Maybe we should add more closeups of Wikipedia in future films. Thanks for the feedback. Best wishes, Lennart 2011/9/29 John Vandenberg jay...@gmail.com Hi Lennart. Thank you for these. I'll be using the Läraren video on this coming Monday at This Is Not Art. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/Newcastle/TINA2011 The other two are not as obviously about Wikipedia. -- John Vandenberg -- Lennart Guldbrandsson Wikimedia Sverige ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Three short films about Wikipedia
Hi Lennart, On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 8:09 PM, Lennart Guldbrandsson wikihanni...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you for your input. They are not late at all. I have worked with writing and films for about ten years now, so I do not take your comments personally. The only comment that is new is that I should leave the director's chair to someone else. If you could be more specific about that, I would be grateful. It's a very fair question and I think you've exposed that my comment where I sort of blame it on the director wasn't thought through or was just a bit woolly. You listed a number of things wondering whether I would criticise those and I am pleased to say, no, I didn't think those things were wrong. I suppose I felt it would have been the director who would have made the decision to have in the videos speaking parts that would be rendered in silence. But I guess that may have been a decision a *writer* would have made. So, sorry, I should not have made the director comment. What we were after were not only that people would stand and watch the entire films - it was to make the stand more lively than with only text, or worse, with computer code. Human movement on screens at the back of the stand were very effective at getting people to stop, OK. Yes, I can see how that would work. I'm sure they worked well for that. So please feel free only to take my comments as far as you find them useful and discard anything you feel missed the point. To reiterate, I thought the videos looked very polished and professional. Bodnotbod ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Three short films about Wikipedia
Okay. I hope that I didn't stifle your comment, though. One idea: Feel free to dub in your own voices if you want voices. That could be very cool! Best wishes, Lennart 2011/9/28 Bod Notbod bodnot...@gmail.com Hi Lennart, On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 8:09 PM, Lennart Guldbrandsson wikihanni...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you for your input. They are not late at all. I have worked with writing and films for about ten years now, so I do not take your comments personally. The only comment that is new is that I should leave the director's chair to someone else. If you could be more specific about that, I would be grateful. It's a very fair question and I think you've exposed that my comment where I sort of blame it on the director wasn't thought through or was just a bit woolly. You listed a number of things wondering whether I would criticise those and I am pleased to say, no, I didn't think those things were wrong. I suppose I felt it would have been the director who would have made the decision to have in the videos speaking parts that would be rendered in silence. But I guess that may have been a decision a *writer* would have made. So, sorry, I should not have made the director comment. What we were after were not only that people would stand and watch the entire films - it was to make the stand more lively than with only text, or worse, with computer code. Human movement on screens at the back of the stand were very effective at getting people to stop, OK. Yes, I can see how that would work. I'm sure they worked well for that. So please feel free only to take my comments as far as you find them useful and discard anything you feel missed the point. To reiterate, I thought the videos looked very polished and professional. Bodnotbod ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l -- Lennart Guldbrandsson Wikimedia Sverige ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Three short films about Wikipedia
On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 02:02:20PM +0200, Lennart Guldbrandsson wrote: Okay. I hope that I didn't stifle your comment, though. One idea: Feel free to dub in your own voices if you want voices. That could be very cool! Best wishes, Lennart Actually, if this is going to be shown at conferences and such, it might be handier to add subtitles? :-) sincerely, Kim Bruning -- ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Three short films about Wikipedia
Kim Bruning wrote: On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 02:02:20PM +0200, Lennart Guldbrandsson wrote: Okay. I hope that I didn't stifle your comment, though. One idea: Feel free to dub in your own voices if you want voices. That could be very cool! Best wishes, Lennart Actually, if this is going to be shown at conferences and such, it might be handier to add subtitles? :-) sincerely, Kim Bruning Seriously, dubbing dialogue, although *kewl*, would be a triumph of hope over experience, and technically and practically infeasible within a sensible timescale, but when it comes to subtitles, the question has to be in how many languages? A good starting point is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_languages, which has Arabic Chinese (Mandarin) English French Russian Spanish (Castilian) as core, but Bengali Hindustani Portuguese Esperanto as proposed. Of these, I would regard languages of the Indian subcontinent as being of higher priority, since (IME) speakers of Spanish can get to grips wth Portuguese at least at a basic level, and Esperanto does not seem to have had the penetration it might deserve. What is perhaps surprising is that Japanese is missing from both these lists, but then perhaps most Japanese are also pretty competent in English these days. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Three short films about Wikipedia
On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 11:38 PM, Lennart Guldbrandsson wikihanni...@gmail.com wrote: This year, we have prepared three short films about why the visitors should contribute to Wikipedia (roughly a minute each) that we will show continuously over the four days of the fair. But before we show them for the public, I'd like to show them to you. I'm a bit late replying and, even worse, I'm going to commit a cardinal sin. But here goes. Positives: I thought the videos looked very professional. And I can see that you went to some effort to make the videos make sense without sound, as you have people pointing at things in a very direct manner. Unfortunately, though (and I know it's frowned upon to be critical of others hard work) I still don't think they quite work as non-sound videos. I put myself in the position of the intended audience: someone at a busy fair. I will see on the videos lips moving without sound. I will assume there *should be* sound. Lips are moving = where is the sound? for me. With us on this mailing list you have told us not to expect it, but you surely aren't telling everyone at the fair that there isn't any to be heard. I would merely glance at the screen, see people talking and think oh, no sound and walk away or look elsewhere. Nevertheless, the first two would work on me if I had someone telling me just watch. The third one (with the grandchildren) failed for me. With the first two I could understand what they were trying to convey to a large degree. The third one I found totally obscure. Again, I know what was intended because you told us and the sign at the end seals the deal, but with the third one I didn't think the images really added anything to the end message. Again, sorry to be largely negative about them. They look professional in image quality and there's no hammy performances or stuff to make you go ugh! and I would certainly be glad to see you make more films... although I might suggest someone else had directorial control... With best intentions, Bodnotbod ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Three short films about Wikipedia
Hello Bodnotbod, Thank you for your input. They are not late at all. I have worked with writing and films for about ten years now, so I do not take your comments personally. The only comment that is new is that I should leave the director's chair to someone else. If you could be more specific about that, I would be grateful. Do you think the camera angles are wrong, the cutting is bad, the acting is hammy (it didn't appear so, but I include it for completeness sake), the interpretation of the script is shallow, the atmosphere is that the filming was rushed, the tempo is too slow or too fast, the stories are too bad, the characters are too uninteresting, the actors are too similar, the places are badly chosen, the rooms of the film are disturbed, or something else? Precision would certainly help. Thanks in advance. Just a clarification when it comes to the other point: the films were really too long for the average passerby, who passed the stand in about one to three second (there were around 900 stands there). What we were after were not only that people would stand and watch the entire films - it was to make the stand more lively than with only text, or worse, with computer code. Human movement on screens at the back of the stand were very effective at getting people to stop, but we tried to get them to start editing, not to get them to watch the films. The films are not *that* effective that we could rely on them to make the argument for us. But they were one of the ways in. Another method that worked well was to give people stickers with the Wikipedia globe and ask them how often they used Wikipedia. That does not, of course, negate your comments. I assure you that I take them seriously. But I need more information. Thanks. Best wishes, Lennart 2011/9/27 Bod Notbod bodnot...@gmail.com On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 11:38 PM, Lennart Guldbrandsson wikihanni...@gmail.com wrote: This year, we have prepared three short films about why the visitors should contribute to Wikipedia (roughly a minute each) that we will show continuously over the four days of the fair. But before we show them for the public, I'd like to show them to you. I'm a bit late replying and, even worse, I'm going to commit a cardinal sin. But here goes. Positives: I thought the videos looked very professional. And I can see that you went to some effort to make the videos make sense without sound, as you have people pointing at things in a very direct manner. Unfortunately, though (and I know it's frowned upon to be critical of others hard work) I still don't think they quite work as non-sound videos. I put myself in the position of the intended audience: someone at a busy fair. I will see on the videos lips moving without sound. I will assume there *should be* sound. Lips are moving = where is the sound? for me. With us on this mailing list you have told us not to expect it, but you surely aren't telling everyone at the fair that there isn't any to be heard. I would merely glance at the screen, see people talking and think oh, no sound and walk away or look elsewhere. Nevertheless, the first two would work on me if I had someone telling me just watch. The third one (with the grandchildren) failed for me. With the first two I could understand what they were trying to convey to a large degree. The third one I found totally obscure. Again, I know what was intended because you told us and the sign at the end seals the deal, but with the third one I didn't think the images really added anything to the end message. Again, sorry to be largely negative about them. They look professional in image quality and there's no hammy performances or stuff to make you go ugh! and I would certainly be glad to see you make more films... although I might suggest someone else had directorial control... With best intentions, Bodnotbod ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l -- Lennart Guldbrandsson Wikimedia Sverige ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Three short films about Wikipedia
Hello, Thanks. I have now created a subpage to the Bookshelf Project, where we collect materials such as these. Please help out with the translations here: http://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Bookshelf/Three_Wikipedia_films Best wishes, Lennart 2011/9/21 emijrp emi...@gmail.com Hey Lennart, they are great videos! Please, create a wikipage on meta:, and I will add the Spanish translation. Regards, emijrp 2011/9/21 Lennart Guldbrandsson wikihanni...@gmail.com Hello, (Sorry for cross-posting this.) In just two days, Wikimedia Sverige is once again going to participate at the Gothenburg Book Fair, which is the second largest book fair in Europe. Around 100 000 people come there every year from almost all of our target groups. This year, we have prepared three short films about why the visitors should contribute to Wikipedia (roughly a minute each) that we will show continuously over the four days of the fair. But before we show them for the public, I'd like to show them to you. Keep in mind that they are meant to be shown at a busy fair. That's why we have no sound, including no dialogue. (I.e. we didn't foul up when uploading them to YouTube). We only have a short sign at the end of the film with sort of a theme stated. Since we will be there to take questions, we didn't feel that we needed more than that. And now, here are the links: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtUJCeWNzw8 (the librarian) (the sign at the end says: When you look up a fact, enter it into Wikipedia as well. Next time, it will be you that saves time.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-voNMspnU4g (the teacher) (Wikipedia can be a good tool for teaching source criticism and how information is created. Learn more about how Wikipedia works.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9ovfukCZts (the senior citizen) (Share what you know. Wikipedia is read by hundreds of thousands of people every day. Maybe by your grandchild too.) The films are licensed cc-by-sa, and will be uploaded shortly to Wikimedia Commons, both as they are now, and with soft music. Here is the good news: If you want a version in your language, just send us what the sign at the end should say and we'll make it for you! Please have at least two people proof-read it before you send it to us, to avoid mistakes, since we probably won't be able to determine if you've made any errors. If you want more films like this, holler and we may make them. We have a good team here, and can make these films pretty cheaply and quickly. Any comments are welcome! Best wishes, Lennart Lennart Guldbrandsson, Wikimedia Sverige http://wikimedia.se Tfn: 031 - 12 50 48 Mobil: 070 - 207 80 05 Epost: l_guldbrands...@hotmail.com Användarsida: http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anv%C3%A4ndare:Hannibal Blogg: http://mrchapel.wordpress.com/ Please note that this email adress is used for mailing lists only. Any personal emails will probably grow old before they are read. To reach me more quickly, send your emails to l_guldbrands...@hotmail.com. Thanks. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l -- Lennart Guldbrandsson Wikimedia Sverige ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Three short films about Wikipedia
Hey Lennart, they are great videos! Please, create a wikipage on meta:, and I will add the Spanish translation. Regards, emijrp 2011/9/21 Lennart Guldbrandsson wikihanni...@gmail.com Hello, (Sorry for cross-posting this.) In just two days, Wikimedia Sverige is once again going to participate at the Gothenburg Book Fair, which is the second largest book fair in Europe. Around 100 000 people come there every year from almost all of our target groups. This year, we have prepared three short films about why the visitors should contribute to Wikipedia (roughly a minute each) that we will show continuously over the four days of the fair. But before we show them for the public, I'd like to show them to you. Keep in mind that they are meant to be shown at a busy fair. That's why we have no sound, including no dialogue. (I.e. we didn't foul up when uploading them to YouTube). We only have a short sign at the end of the film with sort of a theme stated. Since we will be there to take questions, we didn't feel that we needed more than that. And now, here are the links: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtUJCeWNzw8 (the librarian) (the sign at the end says: When you look up a fact, enter it into Wikipedia as well. Next time, it will be you that saves time.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-voNMspnU4g (the teacher) (Wikipedia can be a good tool for teaching source criticism and how information is created. Learn more about how Wikipedia works.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9ovfukCZts (the senior citizen) (Share what you know. Wikipedia is read by hundreds of thousands of people every day. Maybe by your grandchild too.) The films are licensed cc-by-sa, and will be uploaded shortly to Wikimedia Commons, both as they are now, and with soft music. Here is the good news: If you want a version in your language, just send us what the sign at the end should say and we'll make it for you! Please have at least two people proof-read it before you send it to us, to avoid mistakes, since we probably won't be able to determine if you've made any errors. If you want more films like this, holler and we may make them. We have a good team here, and can make these films pretty cheaply and quickly. Any comments are welcome! Best wishes, Lennart Lennart Guldbrandsson, Wikimedia Sverige http://wikimedia.se Tfn: 031 - 12 50 48 Mobil: 070 - 207 80 05 Epost: l_guldbrands...@hotmail.com Användarsida: http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anv%C3%A4ndare:Hannibal Blogg: http://mrchapel.wordpress.com/ Please note that this email adress is used for mailing lists only. Any personal emails will probably grow old before they are read. To reach me more quickly, send your emails to l_guldbrands...@hotmail.com. Thanks. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Re: [Foundation-l] Three short films about Wikipedia
Op 21-09-11 00:38, Lennart Guldbrandsson schreef: Hello, (Sorry for cross-posting this.) [cut And now, here are the links: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtUJCeWNzw8 (the librarian) (the sign at the end says: When you look up a fact, enter it into Wikipedia as well. Next time, it will be you that saves time.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-voNMspnU4g (the teacher) (Wikipedia can be a good tool for teaching source criticism and how information is created. Learn more about how Wikipedia works.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9ovfukCZts (the senior citizen) (Share what you know. Wikipedia is read by hundreds of thousands of people every day. Maybe by your grandchild too.) Great. Suggestion; put those translations also on youtube at the description. That is really needed to make any sense if you watch it. -- Wikizine community newsletter - It keeps comming back! gopher://gopher.wikizine.org / http://www.wikizine.org ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
[Foundation-l] Three short films about Wikipedia
Hello, (Sorry for cross-posting this.) In just two days, Wikimedia Sverige is once again going to participate at the Gothenburg Book Fair, which is the second largest book fair in Europe. Around 100 000 people come there every year from almost all of our target groups. This year, we have prepared three short films about why the visitors should contribute to Wikipedia (roughly a minute each) that we will show continuously over the four days of the fair. But before we show them for the public, I'd like to show them to you. Keep in mind that they are meant to be shown at a busy fair. That's why we have no sound, including no dialogue. (I.e. we didn't foul up when uploading them to YouTube). We only have a short sign at the end of the film with sort of a theme stated. Since we will be there to take questions, we didn't feel that we needed more than that. And now, here are the links: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtUJCeWNzw8 (the librarian) (the sign at the end says: When you look up a fact, enter it into Wikipedia as well. Next time, it will be you that saves time.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-voNMspnU4g (the teacher) (Wikipedia can be a good tool for teaching source criticism and how information is created. Learn more about how Wikipedia works.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9ovfukCZts (the senior citizen) (Share what you know. Wikipedia is read by hundreds of thousands of people every day. Maybe by your grandchild too.) The films are licensed cc-by-sa, and will be uploaded shortly to Wikimedia Commons, both as they are now, and with soft music. Here is the good news: If you want a version in your language, just send us what the sign at the end should say and we'll make it for you! Please have at least two people proof-read it before you send it to us, to avoid mistakes, since we probably won't be able to determine if you've made any errors. If you want more films like this, holler and we may make them. We have a good team here, and can make these films pretty cheaply and quickly. Any comments are welcome! Best wishes, Lennart Lennart Guldbrandsson, Wikimedia Sverige http://wikimedia.se Tfn: 031 - 12 50 48 Mobil: 070 - 207 80 05 Epost: l_guldbrands...@hotmail.com Användarsida: http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anv%C3%A4ndare:Hannibal Blogg: http://mrchapel.wordpress.com/ Please note that this email adress is used for mailing lists only. Any personal emails will probably grow old before they are read. To reach me more quickly, send your emails to l_guldbrands...@hotmail.com. Thanks. ___ foundation-l mailing list foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
