Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)
On 2015-08-04 11:05, Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote: Graeme, could you update us on the extent to which Lazarus or an equivalent IDE supports form design etc. for fpGUI these days? I'm not sure I fully understand the question, but I'll try answering it. fpGUI was design so it doesn't dictate what development tools you need to use to work with it. For that reason the tools included with fpGUI are stand-alone tools. So you can use the UIDesigner (fpGUI Forms Designer) (or DocView) as stand-alone from a desktop icon or command line, or integrate it with any IDE or Editor that support external tools functionality. eg: I develop fpGUI applications with both Lazarus IDE and MSEide. In both cases I have setup context sensitive help (via F1 key press) which launches DocView and displays the appropriate help based on the cursor position. The same is done with the UIDesigner, where I launch the form designer and load the current file using the Ctrl+Shift+F12 shortcut because both Lazarus IDE and MSEide hard-codes F12 (or used too) for its own usage. I've done the same with my favourite text editor, EditPad Pro. Here is some instructions on how to set this up using Lazarus, MSEide, Delphi 7 and EditPad Pro. http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/docview_ide_integration.shtml Even using fpGUI's UIDesigner is optional, but it does make the process of designing a form faster. The UIDesigner generates pure Object Pascal code, as if a human typed it. It doesn't use external *.lfm or *.dfm files, so the true full change history is easily seen in a code repository. This also has some other benefits like supporting multiple forms in a single *.pas unit, properties can quickly be changed directly in code (without needing to launch the Forms Designer), Searching for properties or even Search Replace can be done on code, widgets or properties. I hope this answers your question. Regards, - Graeme - -- fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/ ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)
Gour wrote: Mark Morgan Lloyd markMLl.fpc-pascal-wEaNgGkE20o7VdE/foj...@public.gmane.org writes: The first option would be a pure Pascal one, driving either a graphical or a text-based (curses etc.) UI. Here you mean fpGUI MSEgui? No, more than anything I mean going directly to the relevant APIs. Using fpGUI etc. is a potentially-useful shortcut, particularly if their form designers are adequate. -- Mark Morgan Lloyd markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk [Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues] ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
[fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)
Hello, I’m new to FPC and researching about different GUI options available to write open-source multi-platform desktop app using FPC… Based on what I’ve found there are mainly three options: a) Lazarus and LCL b) fpGUI c) MSEgui Afaict, a) support all three main OS-es - Linux, Mac Windows by providing native look’n’feel although, iirc, Cocoa supprt for Mac is not finished yet. MSEgui works on Linux and Windows, while fpGUI works on all three OS-es but on Mac support is done via X11 libs. Now, let me say that Linux (Debian) is my native platform which I use and will develop on it, but would like to provide versions for Mac Windows. Does it automatically eliminates c) or there is plan to add support for Mac? Is b)’s support for Mac via X11 good-enough or is b) more suitable, as I read somewhere, for embedded platforms? What about learning curve of each one? I probably do not need full power of GTK2(3) or Qt toolkit, but need some database support - app would use sqlite3 as storage backend. Another concern is that, afaics, both b) and c) are mostly one-man project, while a) has much larger community behind. Any advice is helpful? Sincerely, Gour -- Perform your prescribed duty, for doing so is better than not working. One cannot even maintain one's physical body without work. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)
On 2015-08-03 15:41, Gour wrote: Is b)’s support for Mac via X11 good-enough or is b) more suitable, as I read somewhere, for embedded platforms? As I mentioned in a private email, I have written commercial software using fpGUI for the Mac. The client I worked for was not at all phased by the fact that it used the X11 support included with OSX. Neither were they bothered by the fact that it doesn't look 100% native (many of Apple's own software doesn't adhere to their own interface guidelines). My client's main concern was that the software is stable and that it works by delivering the functionality they required - which it did. Having the same look and feel between OSX, Linux and Windows was also a plus for them, as it reduced the amount of staff training on the software. What about learning curve of each one? LCL and fpGUI has pretty much the same learning curve I think. MSEgui might be slightly harder. But my observations could be skewed because I came from a Delphi/Kylix background, and fpGUI and LCL is similar to those. but need some database support - app would use sqlite3 as storage backend. Database support is obviously supported by all three toolkits you mentioned. Database support shouldn't be tightly tied to a GUI toolkit anyway - that is just bad design. If you have the time I suggest you take a look at another open source project called tiOPF (TechInsite Object Persistence Framework). It abstracts the data persistence (saving/loading), so you simply concentrate on designing your business objects. The tiOPF framework then takes care of the rest and allows you to switch where you store your data (XML, Firebird, MySQL, SQL Server, SQLite etc), without needing any code changes. For displaying and interacting with data in a user interface, tiOPF uses a design pattern called Model-GUI-Mediator (MGM) and allows standard user interface widgets to become object aware without needing additional custom DB-aware widgets. tiOPF already supports the most frequently used widgets and has MGM mediators for Delphi's VCL and FMX, Lazarus's LCL and fpGUI. I've personally used tiOPF for over 15 years in commercial software, and highly recommend it for Client/Server or 3-tier database development work. http://www.tiopf.com Another concern is that, afaics, both b) and c) are mostly one-man project, while a) has much larger community behind. As I already explained in the Lazarus mailing list. I might be the driving force behind fpGUI, but it certainly has had many many contributions over the last 10 years. A smaller development team doesn't make a project any less useful. eg: The Free Pascal Compiler development team is minute compared to say the Qt project. Yet I [and many others] find FPC immensely useful, and more importantly what allows us [as developers] to make a living. Regards, - Graeme - -- fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/ ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)
Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: On 2015-08-03 15:41, Gour wrote: Is b)’s support for Mac via X11 good-enough or is b) more suitable, as I read somewhere, for embedded platforms? As I mentioned in a private email, I have written commercial softwareusing fpGUI for the Mac. The client I worked for was not at all phasedby the fact that it used the X11 support included with OSX. Neither werethey bothered by the fact that it doesn't look 100% native (many ofApple's own software doesn't adhere to their own interface guidelines).My client's main concern was that the software is stable and that itworks by delivering the functionality they required - which it did. Having the same look and feel between OSX, Linux and Windows was also aplus for them, as it reduced the amount of staff training on the software. What about learning curve of each one? LCL and fpGUI has pretty much the same learning curve I think. Graeme, could you update us on the extent to which Lazarus or an equivalent IDE supports form design etc. for fpGUI these days? -- Mark Morgan Lloyd markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk [Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues] ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)
Graeme Geldenhuys mailinglists-8YTDi+lb5bF/7+tckll...@public.gmane.org writes: If you have the time I suggest you take a look at another open source project called tiOPF (TechInsite Object Persistence Framework). It abstracts the data persistence (saving/loading), so you simply concentrate on designing your business objects. The tiOPF framework then takes care of the rest and allows you to switch where you store your data (XML, Firebird, MySQL, SQL Server, SQLite etc), without needing any code changes. Interesting…I was looking at this page (http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/tiOPF) and wondered why there is no support for Sqlite3. :-) I've personally used tiOPF for over 15 years in commercial software, and highly recommend it for Client/Server or 3-tier database development work. Thanks. It’s bookmarked now. A smaller development team doesn't make a project any less useful. eg: The Free Pascal Compiler development team is minute compared to say the Qt project. Yet I [and many others] find FPC immensely useful, and more importantly what allows us [as developers] to make a living. Thank you very much for your input. Sincerely, Gour -- You have a right to perform your prescribed duty, but you are not entitled to the fruits of action. Never consider yourself the cause of the results of your activities, and never be attached to not doing your duty. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)
Mark Morgan Lloyd markMLl.fpc-pascal-wEaNgGkE20o7VdE/foj...@public.gmane.org writes: The first option would be a pure Pascal one, driving either a graphical or a text-based (curses etc.) UI. Here you mean fpGUI MSEgui? I tend to use the FPC+Lazarus combination on (Debian) Linux targeting x86 (including -64), SPARC, PPC and sometimes ARM, MIPS is also getting there slowly. Sometimes also x86 Windows and SPARC Solaris, and other people regularly target OSX etc. Nice set. ;) fpGUI and MSEgui definitely have their good points, they're lean and are only mean in self-defence :-) :-) -- Even a man of knowledge acts according to his own nature, for everyone follows the nature he has acquired from the three modes. What can repression accomplish? ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)
On 08/04/2015 07:33 AM, Gour wrote: Mark Morgan Lloyd markMLl.fpc-pascal-wEaNgGkE20o7VdE/foj...@public.gmane.org writes: The first option would be a pure Pascal one, driving either a graphical or a text-based (curses etc.) UI. Here you mean fpGUI MSEgui? I tend to use the FPC+Lazarus combination on (Debian) Linux targeting x86 (including -64), SPARC, PPC and sometimes ARM, MIPS is also getting there slowly. Sometimes also x86 Windows and SPARC Solaris, and other people regularly target OSX etc. Nice set. ;) fpGUI and MSEgui definitely have their good points, they're lean and are only mean in self-defence :-) :-) And fpGUI is very easy to try: http://www.turbocontrol.com/easyfpgui.htm ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)
On 2015-08-04 14:04, Marc Santhoff wrote: can you give a short explanation how the pattern is implemented or show a documentation link, please? Model-GUI-Mediator is a combination of the Observer and Mediator design patterns working together. Follow the URL shown below, and view the second article from the top. It is an introduction to Model-GUI-Mediator, but the implementation found in tiOPF goes far beyond what is covered in that article. Needless to say the one found in tiOPF is much improved, easier to use and way more powerful. The underlying idea is the same though. http://geldenhuys.co.uk/articles/ Regards, - Graeme - -- fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/ ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)
Gour wrote: Hello, I’m new to FPC and researching about different GUI options available towrite open-source multi-platform desktop app using FPC… Based on what I’ve found there are mainly three options: a) Lazarus and LCL b) fpGUI c) MSEgui Afaict, a) support all three main OS-es - Linux, Mac Windows byproviding native look’n’feel although, iirc, Cocoa supprt for Mac is notfinished yet. MSEgui works on Linux and Windows, while fpGUI works on all three OS-esbut on Mac support is done via X11 libs. Now, let me say that Linux (Debian) is my native platform which I useand will develop on it, but would like to provide versions for Mac Windows. Does it automatically eliminates c) or there is plan to add support forMac? Is b)’s support for Mac via X11 good-enough or is b) more suitable, as Iread somewhere, for embedded platforms? What about learning curve of each one? I probably do not need full power of GTK2(3) or Qt toolkit, but needsome database support - app would use sqlite3 as storage backend. Another concern is that, afaics, both b) and c) are mostly one-manproject, while a) has much larger community behind. Any advice is helpful? The first option would be a pure Pascal one, driving either a graphical or a text-based (curses etc.) UI. However in practice I think you'll find that the majority in here who have any interest in GUI support use Lazarus. I tend to use the FPC+Lazarus combination on (Debian) Linux targeting x86 (including -64), SPARC, PPC and sometimes ARM, MIPS is also getting there slowly. Sometimes also x86 Windows and SPARC Solaris, and other people regularly target OSX etc. There is a bit of a problem in that all of us tend to test the less popular combinations somewhat sporadically, and at present some of these really do require careful choice of compiler version and- if using Lazarus- widget set. fpGUI and MSEgui definitely have their good points, they're lean and are only mean in self-defence :-) -- Mark Morgan Lloyd markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk [Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues] ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)
On Di, 2015-08-04 at 10:49 +0100, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: For displaying and interacting with data in a user interface, tiOPF uses a design pattern called Model-GUI-Mediator (MGM) and allows standard user interface widgets to become object aware without needing additional custom DB-aware widgets. tiOPF already supports the most frequently used widgets and has MGM mediators for Delphi's VCL and FMX, Lazarus's LCL and fpGUI. Graeme, can you give a short explanation how the pattern is implemented or show a documentation link, please? TIA, Marc -- Marc Santhoff m.santh...@web.de ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)
Graeme Geldenhuys mailinglists-8YTDi+lb5bF/7+tckll...@public.gmane.org writes: I can confirm that SQLite3 is supported via the SqlDB database components. That wiki page is simply a bit out of date. Thank you. Sincerely, Gour -- ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)
On 2015-08-04 12:27, Gour wrote: (http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/tiOPF) and wondered why there is no support for Sqlite3. :-) I can confirm that SQLite3 is supported via the SqlDB database components. That wiki page is simply a bit out of date. Regards, - Graeme - -- fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/ ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)
Paul Breneman paul2006-4ezuxmlisd143iaxyif...@public.gmane.org writes: And fpGUI is very easy to try: http://www.turbocontrol.com/easyfpgui.htm Ohh, this is a good one. Thanks. Sincerely, Gour -- He is a perfect yogī who, by comparison to his own self, sees the true equality of all beings, in both their happiness and their distress, O Arjuna! ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)
On 03/08/15 15:41, Gour wrote: I probably do not need full power of GTK2(3) or Qt toolkit, I would advise anyway against using LCL (Qt) on Linux at the moment. I understand its based on Qt4, and Qt4 is being dropped in favour of Qt5. At the very least, check how long your distribution will be supporting Qt4. http://perezmeyer.blogspot.co.uk/2014/11/early-announce-qt4-removal-in-jessie1.html I don't think you will get a complete GTK3 in the LCL either at the moment. Its 'alpha' status according to the wiki. fpGui, while it has far fewer features, is independent of these widget sets and their major version transitions. I suggest, check what features you need. Does fpGui have them? If not, use LCL-GTK I have not used Lazarus for a while, but I think you can use it as an IDE, while using fpGUI as a component set. Perhaps someone can confirm? MSE stuff has a following, but last time I looked, there wasn’t much documentation to help get started with it. Peter ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)
On 2015-08-04 16:11, Peter wrote: I have not used Lazarus for a while, but I think you can use it as an IDE, while using fpGUI as a component set. Perhaps someone can confirm? I believe I answered that in an earlier reply. http://lists.freepascal.org/pipermail/fpc-pascal/2015-August/044795.html Regards, - Graeme - ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)
Hi, I am the author of MSEide+MSEgui. On Monday 03 August 2015 16:41:44 Gour wrote: MSEgui works on Linux and Windows, while fpGUI works on all three OS-es but on Mac support is done via X11 libs. Now, let me say that Linux (Debian) is my native platform which I use and will develop on it, but would like to provide versions for Mac Windows. Does it automatically eliminates c) or there is plan to add support for Mac? MSEgui works on Linux, FreeBSD and Windows. A port for OSX with X11 backend is probably doable with not much effort. I would prefer to interface to Quartz directly, such a solution needs a sponsor because of the rather big expenditure and I don't need OSX myself. Though I often read that Mac people never will accept something which is not made and sold by Apple so a toolkit like MSEgui on Mac is useless and Apple tries to lock out alien solutions. Is b)’s support for Mac via X11 good-enough or is b) more suitable, as I read somewhere, for embedded platforms? What about learning curve of each one? MSEide+MSEgui is no Delphi clone, so if you are experienced to work with Delphi and don't like to learn something new you probably would have a hard time with MSEide+MSEgui at the beginning. If you don't know Delphi or you think that Delphi not necessarily is the only possible way to make a GUI toolkit and IDE, MSEide+MSEgui can be easily learned because of its orthogonal architecture and most things simply work, also difficult things like visual form inheritance, frames and docking - BTW since many years already. I started development of MSEide+MSEgui in 1999 and invested about 20'000 hours up to now. Because of the small team the software architecture, quality and strictness is very good. MSEgui probably is the most versatile GUI toolkit you will find on the market. License of MSEide is GPL, license of MSEgui is LGPL with static linking exception, so you are free to fork the projects if you don't like my development direction . I probably do not need full power of GTK2(3) or Qt toolkit, but need some database support - app would use sqlite3 as storage backend. MSEide+MSEgui has excellent database support, please take a look in the MSEide component palette tabs 'DB', 'DBe', 'DBl', 'DBf', 'Rep' and 'ifi' . Please take the recommendation of tiOPF design patterns by Graeme with a grain of salt, it is not the only possibility to build high quality database applications and he is a little bit biased. ;-) Please ask questions about MSEide+MSEgui on the mailing list: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mseide-msegui-talk Mail archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/mseide-msegui-talk@lists.sourceforge.net/ NNTP gateway: nntp://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.ide.mseide.user Martin ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)
On 04/08/15 20:28, Juha Manninen wrote: when QT4 is removed, Lazarus LCL will already support QT5 bindings. Alpha version of the bindings already exist. Well, thats good news then. I couldn't find any mention of QT5 in the wiki. Peter. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)
On 2015-08-04 21:57, Schindler Karl-Michael wrote: This is quite a twisted view, which cries for correction. Apple has put up guide lines for developers, for example the Human Interface Guidelines And even Apple can't adhere to their own HIG details. Such arguments about Mac users praising the consistency of OSX and its applications is a joke. If you want examples, use Google - it will list plenty of inconsistencies for iOS and OSX. As for Mac users not wanting to use applications that don't blend in perfectly well then I guess those same users never use the Internet or any web apps either? After all, websites look alien on every platform and has no HIG to speak off (weird looking buttons, menus all over the place, odd animations and hover effects, modal forms etc etc). Yet everybody on any platform seems to navigate websites and web apps just fine. Personally I don't think the majority of end-users are that stupid as some people make them out to be. If they see a button (on a web page or alien application) they know how to use it. The same goes for all other UI widgets too. The important things is, is the application stable, and does it provide a useful function that the end-user needs. Case in point, I wrote a commercial application for a client using fpGUI - a 100% custom drawn toolkit. fpGUI using OSX's X11 support to run. The client didn't give a damn if the application didn't look 100% native. They only cared that the application was stable and did what they needed. In fact, they were quite happy that it looked and behaved exactly like the Linux and Windows versions because it saved them extra effort and money when training the staff using the software. Regards, - Graeme - -- fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/ ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)
Mark Morgan Lloyd markMLl.fpc-pascal-wEaNgGkE20o7VdE/foj...@public.gmane.org writes: That's going to be a problem. On x86 and x86-64 Jessie, my experience so far is that GTK2 doesn't work and that Qt is the only viable option. That’s another ’pro’ argument to use fpGUI or MSEgui… Sincerely, Gour -- The working senses are superior to dull matter; mind is higher than the senses; intelligence is still higher than the mind; and he [the soul] is even higher than the intelligence. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)
In our previous episode, Peter said: I probably do not need full power of GTK2(3) or Qt toolkit, I would advise anyway against using LCL (Qt) on Linux at the moment. I understand its based on Qt4, and Qt4 is being dropped in favour of Qt5. At the very least, check how long your distribution will be supporting Qt4. The whole point of the LCL is that you only start worrying about widgetset when you are close to deployment, and need to do widgetset specific things. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)
marcov-bqi0ya1h...@public.gmane.org (Marco van de Voort) writes: (don't forget to ask Martin about the language he is creating, I tried to plug some M2 features, maybe you can drive the message home :-) Hmm…nothing in public yet? I believe that using FPC is giving me more confidence considering the community behind… Sincerely, Gour -- It is far better to discharge one's prescribed duties, even though faultily, than another's duties perfectly. Destruction in the course of performing one's own duty is better than engaging in another's duties, for to follow another's path is dangerous. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)
In our previous episode, Gour said: Please ask questions about MSEide+MSEgui on the mailing list: Will visit the place, for sure? Thank you for your input. At the end, after deciding to use FPC, there is no more lack of viable options which was the case before when evaluating other languages. :-) (don't forget to ask Martin about the language he is creating, I tried to plug some M2 features, maybe you can drive the message home :-) ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)
Peter wrote: On 03/08/15 15:41, Gour wrote: I probably do not need full power of GTK2(3) or Qt toolkit, I would advise anyway against using LCL (Qt) on Linux at the moment.I understand its based on Qt4, and Qt4 is being dropped in favour ofQt5. At the very least, check how long your distribution will besupporting Qt4. http://perezmeyer.blogspot.co.uk/2014/11/early-announce-qt4-removal-in-jessie1.html I don't think you will get a complete GTK3 in the LCL either at themoment. Its 'alpha' status according to the wiki. That's going to be a problem. On x86 and x86-64 Jessie, my experience so far is that GTK2 doesn't work and that Qt is the only viable option. GOK what it's like on other platforms that might not have such a well-tested Qt etc. -- Mark Morgan Lloyd markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk [Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues] ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)
Martin Schreiber mse0-re5jqeeqqe8avxtiumw...@public.gmane.org writes: Hi, I am the author of MSEide+MSEgui. Hiya! MSEgui works on Linux, FreeBSD and Windows. A port for OSX with X11 backend is probably doable with not much effort. I would prefer to interface to Quartz directly, such a solution needs a sponsor because of the rather big expenditure and I don't need OSX myself. I also personally do not need OSX neither I used it ever - just would like to provide, if possible, version of my app for it. Though I often read that Mac people never will accept something which is not made and sold by Apple so a toolkit like MSEgui on Mac is useless and Apple tries to lock out alien solutions. :-) Is Windows (e.g. V10) better in this regard? I plan to write open-source app using Linux/BSD platform so there is no comercial pressure to have Win/Mac version, just simple convenience. MSEide+MSEgui is no Delphi clone, so if you are experienced to work with Delphi and don't like to learn something new you probably would have a hard time with MSEide+MSEgui at the beginning. No Delphi experience at all… If you don't know Delphi or you think that Delphi not necessarily is the only possible way to make a GUI toolkit and IDE, MSEide+MSEgui can be easily learned because of its orthogonal architecture and most things simply work, also difficult things like visual form inheritance, frames and docking - BTW since many years already. I’ll check it out. I started development of MSEide+MSEgui in 1999 and invested about 20'000 hours up to now. Because of the small team the software architecture, quality and strictness is very good. MSEgui probably is the most versatile GUI toolkit you will find on the market. What about docs? Someone mentined lack of it. License of MSEide is GPL, license of MSEgui is LGPL with static linking exception, so you are free to fork the projects if you don't like my development direction . I’ll probably have to use some 3rd party C lib which is GPLV2+, so license is not a problem here. MSEide+MSEgui has excellent database support, please take a look in the MSEide component palette tabs 'DB', 'DBe', 'DBl', 'DBf', 'Rep' and 'ifi' . Please take the recommendation of tiOPF design patterns by Graeme with a grain of salt, it is not the only possibility to build high quality database applications and he is a little bit biased. ;-) :-) Please ask questions about MSEide+MSEgui on the mailing list: Will visit the place, for sure… Thank you for your input. At the end, after deciding to use FPC, there is no more lack of viable options which was the case before when evaluating other languages. :-) Sincerely, Gour -- Perform your prescribed duty, for doing so is better than not working. One cannot even maintain one's physical body without work. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)
On Tuesday 04 August 2015 20:01:25 Gour wrote: marcov-bqi0ya1h...@public.gmane.org (Marco van de Voort) writes: (don't forget to ask Martin about the language he is creating, I tried to plug some M2 features, maybe you can drive the message home :-) Hmm…nothing in public yet? https://gitlab.com/mseide-msegui/mselang/wikis/home Martin ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)
Peter peter-FHq+SjPhcZrJ7da/qbyxs9bpr1lh4...@public.gmane.org writes: I would advise anyway against using LCL (Qt) on Linux at the moment. I understand its based on Qt4, and Qt4 is being dropped in favour of Qt5. At the very least, check how long your distribution will be supporting Qt4. That’s helpful hint. I don't think you will get a complete GTK3 in the LCL either at the moment. Its 'alpha' status according to the wiki. Another one. ;) fpGui, while it has far fewer features, is independent of these widget sets and their major version transitions. I must admit I’m heavily leaning towards it at the moment having some very welcome features and less bloat. I have not used Lazarus for a while, but I think you can use it as an IDE, while using fpGUI as a component set. Perhaps someone can confirm? Well, ability of fpGUI to use one’s preferred editor is another ’plus’. Sincerely, Gour -- ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)
On Tuesday 04 August 2015 19:03:41 Gour wrote: Martin Schreiber mse0-re5jqeeqqe8avxtiumw...@public.gmane.org writes: Though I often read that Mac people never will accept something which is not made and sold by Apple so a toolkit like MSEgui on Mac is useless and Apple tries to lock out alien solutions. :-) Is Windows (e.g. V10) better in this regard? I think so. What about docs? Someone mentined lack of it. Some usefull links are here: http://mseide-msegui.sourceforge.net/ Wiki: http://wiki.freepascal.org/MSEide__MSEgui Examples are here: https://gitlab.com/mseuniverse/mseuniverse/tree/master/samples and here: https://gitlab.com/mseuniverse/mseuniverse/tree/master/attic/msedocumenting/mse/trunk/help/tutorials and feel free to ask on the mseide-msegui-talk mailing list. Martin ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)
On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 6:11 PM, Peter pe...@pblackman.plus.com wrote: On 03/08/15 15:41, Gour wrote: I would advise anyway against using LCL (Qt) on Linux at the moment. I understand its based on Qt4, and Qt4 is being dropped in favour of Qt5. At the very least, check how long your distribution will be supporting Qt4. http://perezmeyer.blogspot.co.uk/2014/11/early-announce-qt4-removal-in-jessie1.html Qt4 may be deprecated but it will not be removed any time soon. Was the announcement made at 1. of April? No it wasn't. Anyway the major distros will support QT4 for a long time. Right now I am using OpenSuse Tumbleweed rolling distro with KDE Plasma 5 desktop. KDE is the biggest project using QT. They still need QT4 for many applications in Plasma 5. After many years when QT4 is removed, Lazarus LCL will already support QT5 bindings. Alpha version of the bindings already exist. The maintainer of LCL-QT, Zeljko, uses it for his own business. I am pretty sure this is a safe path for anybody. The sentence I would advise anyway against using LCL (Qt) on Linux at the moment is plain FUD and nonsense. I don't think you will get a complete GTK3 in the LCL either at the moment. Its 'alpha' status according to the wiki. LCL-GTK3 is alpha, yes. It needs contributors. Anybody? Juha ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
Re: [fpc-pascal] which GUI (noob)
Hi my two cents as a long term user of Macs, fpc and lazarus. Am 04.08.2015 um 20:01 schrieb fpc-pascal-requ...@lists.freepascal.org: Though I often read that Mac people never will accept something which is not made and sold by Apple so a toolkit like MSEgui on Mac is useless and Apple tries to lock out „alien solutions. This is quite a twisted view, which cries for correction. Apple has put up guide lines for developers, for example the Human Interface Guidelines (https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/OSXHIGuidelines/index.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/2957) But there are more, for example about the application bundles and where to put preference files and similar things. Contrary to the claim above there are plenty freeware and shareware programs, which are well received by mac users. Whether they are sold by apple or not, is not the point. iTunes from Apple, for example, has received quite some critics, because it does not really follow the guide lines and therefore feels „strange“. Mac users have a low barrier to install and try something, but their barrier to ditch something to the trashcan is also very low. For a real Mac application without any fishy smell, i guess one needs to take the full dive and develop the interface with Xcode and use ObjectivePascal for the code. It is probably the only way to get the application into the AppStore, but i think that this is not your option. Whether Apple locks out alien solutions is not the point, because this has been the case even before the App Store. However, you can still install and run applications, like Lazarus, alien or not ;-) The carbon-lcl is probably the best compromise at the moment regarding features and mac-like appearance, at least until the cocoa-lcl does everything you need. Qt4-lcl is another option, but also needs quite some tweaking. For the majority of Apple users all X11-derived solutions are very alien and they are only accepted by techie nerds like me. Therefore, the question about your potential customers/users is quite important. If you have never used a Mac, it might be difficult to understand the critics of Maccies about the strange feeling and only sound arrogant. Things like the top priority of mouse activities and the corresponding user guidance and the much lower importance of application specific short keys. On the other hand a number of default short keys are expected to work. Ctrl-W for closing the active window is often missing in ported programs. But in many cases, the number of little things is so large, that the answer to the question „What is wrong?“ is „Oh my god, where should i start!“ I am surely exaggerating, but actually hoping to prepare you of what might come. There is a good chance that it is not so bad. Since you seem to have little experience with a Mac, it might be good to team up with a Maccie. Maybe try the mac-pascal mailing list. I have put together a small utility for the conversion of the voltage from a thermocouple to temperature in lazarus. It runs on Mac OS X, Linux and windows. Besides Lazarus, i also use a Makefile for some of the tweaks. Link: https://sourceforge.net/projects/heatwizard/ MiSchi. signature.asc Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
[fpc-pascal] manipulate tun/tap in free pascal
Hi there, Is there any example to write a tun/tap driver (or adapter, whatever) on Linux using free pascal? Thanks! ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal
