Re: [fpc-pascal] TurboVision is reborn as FOSS (again)

2020-12-21 Thread Nikolay Nikolov via fpc-pascal 


On 12/22/20 2:39 AM, Karoly Balogh (Charlie/SGR) via fpc-pascal wrote:

Hi,

On Mon, 21 Dec 2020, Sven Barth via fpc-pascal wrote:


As long as one knows why a certain temporal construct is used there is
no problem and at least in Germany (or more specifically Bavaria) we
were taught that in masses.

As a native speaker of a language which only has three tenses and no
grammatical gender, it's difficult to decide if the twelve tenses of
English, or the three genders of German are the more confusing. :P
(Probably still the latter, tho'... ;) )

Anyway, any interest to develop Free Vision further is very welcome one,
so we can move it from past tense to a future one. I still think text mode
UI for console and terminals still has a place, but sadly the current FV
implementation doesn't necessarily plays well on some Un*x terminals (it's
highly dependent on the font, and many other factors), also a mono mode is
sorely missing, which is a problem for both some modern and retro use
cases. And yeah, on the high-end, Unicode would be needed.


Speaking of Unicode, I have started working on adding Unicode support to 
the keyboard, video and mouse units (which are used internally by FV) in 
the unicodekvm branch. So, if anyone is interested in adding Unicode 
support to FV, take a look at this branch.


Nikolay



Charlie

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Re: [fpc-pascal] TurboVision is reborn as FOSS (again)

2020-12-21 Thread Karoly Balogh (Charlie/SGR) via fpc-pascal 
Hi,

On Mon, 21 Dec 2020, Sven Barth via fpc-pascal wrote:

> As long as one knows why a certain temporal construct is used there is
> no problem and at least in Germany (or more specifically Bavaria) we
> were taught that in masses. 

As a native speaker of a language which only has three tenses and no
grammatical gender, it's difficult to decide if the twelve tenses of
English, or the three genders of German are the more confusing. :P
(Probably still the latter, tho'... ;) )

Anyway, any interest to develop Free Vision further is very welcome one,
so we can move it from past tense to a future one. I still think text mode
UI for console and terminals still has a place, but sadly the current FV
implementation doesn't necessarily plays well on some Un*x terminals (it's
highly dependent on the font, and many other factors), also a mono mode is
sorely missing, which is a problem for both some modern and retro use
cases. And yeah, on the high-end, Unicode would be needed.

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Re: [fpc-pascal] TurboVision is reborn as FOSS (again)

2020-12-21 Thread gabor via fpc-pascal 

W dniu 2020-12-21 o 23:41, Sven Barth via fpc-pascal pisze:
> The main restriction is that it only supports ShortString and thus has
> no Unicode support.

I wonder which type would be best suited to store a unicode character 
(code point) for the screen buffer?


type
  TScreenBuffer = array of record
Character: TypeForUnicodeCodepoint;
AttributeAndColor: TAttributeAndColor;
  end;

Michał
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Re: [fpc-pascal] TurboVision is reborn as FOSS (again)

2020-12-21 Thread Sven Barth via fpc-pascal 
Travis Siegel via fpc-pascal  schrieb am
Mo., 21. Dez. 2020, 17:41:

> I don't know what non native english speakers are taught, nor can I
> address the folks across the pond, but here in the Us at least, has denotes
> currently exists, while had indicates past tense, I.E. no longer exists.
> Combining the two is where it gets dicy, and is generally avoided for
> syntactical reasons.
>
There is nothing dicy about combining them as "have" is just a normal verb
like anything else and thus can be used together with the "have/has/had"
temporal particle without any problems.
As long as one knows why a certain temporal construct is used there is no
problem and at least in Germany (or more specifically Bavaria) we were
taught that in masses.

Regards,
Sven

>
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Re: [fpc-pascal] TurboVision is reborn as FOSS (again)

2020-12-21 Thread Sven Barth via fpc-pascal 
Liam Proven via fpc-pascal  schrieb am
Mo., 21. Dez. 2020, 18:11:

> On Mon, 21 Dec 2020 at 10:56, Nikolay Nikolov via fpc-pascal
>  wrote:
> >
> >
> > On 12/21/20 10:42 AM, Markus Greim wrote:
> >
> > FPC has had a Turbo Pascal-like console IDE for many years...
>
> Sorry about this. I did not get this email, only the replies to it.
>
> I was unaware of that!
>
> Is this conversion of TurboVision FOSS, then?
>

It's license *might* not count as FOSS, but it's distributed as part of FPC
(see $fpcdir/packages/fv).

The main restriction is that it only supports ShortString and thus has no
Unicode support.

Regards,
Sven

>
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Re: [fpc-pascal] TurboVision is reborn as FOSS (again)

2020-12-21 Thread Graeme Geldenhuys via fpc-pascal 
On 21/12/2020 2:07 pm, Liam Proven via fpc-pascal wrote:
> Is this conversion of TurboVision FOSS, then?

Yes, it definitely is, otherwise it wouldn't be part of FPC. If you have
FPC install, you should be able to simply type 'fp' from the command prompt
and it should fire up the FreeVision Text IDE.

Here is a screenshot of the Text IDE from back in 2008, but it has been
around a LOT longer than that. :-)

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Pascal#Integrated_development_environments


Regards,
  Graeme

-- 
fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal
http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/

My public PGP key:  http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp
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Re: [fpc-pascal] TurboVision is reborn as FOSS (again)

2020-12-21 Thread Travis Siegel via fpc-pascal 
I don't know what non native english speakers are taught, nor can I 
address the folks across the pond, but here in the Us at least, has 
denotes currently exists, while had indicates past tense, I.E. no longer 
exists.  Combining the two is where it gets dicy, and is generally 
avoided for syntactical reasons.


On 12/21/2020 4:17 AM, Nikolay Nikolov via fpc-pascal wrote:



On 12/21/20 10:42 AM, Markus Greim wrote:

FPC has had a Turbo Pascal-like console IDE for many years...

"has had" ?

AKAIK "has"

I still used it yesterday.


English is not my native language, but I think "has had" means it 
still has it. If I had said "had" instead of "has had", it would mean 
it had it in the past, but no longer has it. Please correct me if I'm 
wrong.


Nikolay



Grüße

Markus
Sent from Front
On December 20, 2020, 7:33 PM GMT+1 fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org 
 wrote:



On 12/19/20 6:35 PM, Liam Proven via fpc-pascal wrote:


> https://github.com/magiblot/tvision 


>
> Someone enterprising could make a TurboPascal clone out of FPC. :-)
>
Meh. FPC has had a Turbo Pascal-like console IDE for many years. It 
uses Free Vision, which is a pascal port of the C++ version of 
Turbo Vision (because Borland didn't release their Pascal version 
under a free/open source license).


https://wiki.freepascal.org/Free_Vision#Turbo_Vision 



Nikolay

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Re: [fpc-pascal] TurboVision is reborn as FOSS (again)

2020-12-21 Thread rvmartin2--- via fpc-pascal 
Sven Barth via fpc-pascal  wrote the following 
on 21/12/2020, 13:13:08:
> Nikolay Nikolov via fpc-pascal  schrieb am
> Mo., 21. Dez. 2020, 11:36:
> 
> >
> > On 12/21/20 10:42 AM, Markus Greim wrote:
> >
> > FPC has had a Turbo Pascal-like console IDE for many years...
> >
> > "has had" ?
> >
> > AKAIK "has"
> >
> > I still used it yesterday.
> >
> > English is not my native language, but I think "has had" means it still
> > has it. If I had said "had" instead of "has had", it would mean it had it
> > in the past, but no longer has it. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
> >
> 
> That's how I was taught it as well (with English not being my first
> language): "has had" means that the "having" started in the past and holds
> till now. "had had" would mean that it started in the past and ended
> somewhere less in the past and "had" alone is a specific point in the past.

"has had" is correct and good English.
Bob Martin in England
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Re: [fpc-pascal] TurboVision is reborn as FOSS (again)

2020-12-21 Thread Liam Proven via fpc-pascal 
On Mon, 21 Dec 2020 at 10:56, Nikolay Nikolov via fpc-pascal
 wrote:
>
>
> On 12/21/20 10:42 AM, Markus Greim wrote:
>
> FPC has had a Turbo Pascal-like console IDE for many years...

Sorry about this. I did not get this email, only the replies to it.

I was unaware of that!

Is this conversion of TurboVision FOSS, then?

-- 
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Re: [fpc-pascal] TurboVision is reborn as FOSS (again)

2020-12-21 Thread Sven Barth via fpc-pascal 
Nikolay Nikolov via fpc-pascal  schrieb am
Mo., 21. Dez. 2020, 11:36:

>
> On 12/21/20 10:42 AM, Markus Greim wrote:
>
> FPC has had a Turbo Pascal-like console IDE for many years...
>
> "has had" ?
>
> AKAIK "has"
>
> I still used it yesterday.
>
> English is not my native language, but I think "has had" means it still
> has it. If I had said "had" instead of "has had", it would mean it had it
> in the past, but no longer has it. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
>

That's how I was taught it as well (with English not being my first
language): "has had" means that the "having" started in the past and holds
till now. "had had" would mean that it started in the past and ended
somewhere less in the past and "had" alone is a specific point in the past.

Regards,
Sven

>
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Re: [fpc-pascal] TurboVision is reborn as FOSS (again)

2020-12-21 Thread Nikolay Nikolov via fpc-pascal 


On 12/21/20 10:42 AM, Markus Greim wrote:

FPC has had a Turbo Pascal-like console IDE for many years...

"has had" ?

AKAIK "has"

I still used it yesterday.


English is not my native language, but I think "has had" means it still 
has it. If I had said "had" instead of "has had", it would mean it had 
it in the past, but no longer has it. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


Nikolay



Grüße

Markus
Sent from Front
On December 20, 2020, 7:33 PM GMT+1 fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org 
 wrote:



On 12/19/20 6:35 PM, Liam Proven via fpc-pascal wrote:


> https://github.com/magiblot/tvision 


>
> Someone enterprising could make a TurboPascal clone out of FPC. :-)
>
Meh. FPC has had a Turbo Pascal-like console IDE for many years. It 
uses Free Vision, which is a pascal port of the C++ version of Turbo 
Vision (because Borland didn't release their Pascal version under a 
free/open source license).


https://wiki.freepascal.org/Free_Vision#Turbo_Vision 



Nikolay

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