RE: Colour question

[Dov Isaacs]

Lester is right! And also be aware that NO, repeat NO,
repeat yet again NO Windows driver, whether PostScript
or otherwise, can accept CMYK from applications, except
for EPS passthrough with the PostScript driver, since
the Windows imaging model is totally RGB. Drivers can
output CMYK (as the PostScript driver does), but since
the input to the driver is GDI and GDI is totally RGB,
in general, an application program cannot communicate
CMYK directly to a print driver. This includes FrameMaker,
with the exception of EPS passthrough.

- Dov 

> -Original Message-
> From: lists.frameusers.com On Behalf Of Lester C. Smalley
> Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 1:55 PM
> Subject: RE: Colour question
> 
> As has been repeated in this forum, time and time again, if 
> you are 'printing' to PDF you should be using the Acrobat 
> Distiller print driver, and not the drivers for any specific 
> real or generic device.
> This should show up in your system (Windows) as the "Adobe 
> PDF" or "Acrobat Distiller" (if you have an older version of 
> Acrobat) printer.
> 
> While you may not have any immediate problems, there is the 
> strong possibility that the resulting PDF will not be 
> compatible for all devices, or suffer from other problems 
> which will rear their ugly heads at the most inopportune 
> times such as 15 minutes before a critical deadline.
> 
> And I am not convinced that the printer drivers in Windows 
> use CMYK - they may, but they may also just use RGB which is 
> what the Windows GDI (Graphic Device Interface) uses as it's 
> default color space.
> 
> On Friday, June 09, 2006 03:09 PM, Daniel Doornbos wrote:
> 
> < SNIP >
> 
> | When you print to PDF, you use a printer driver, either a specific
color
> | laser printer or a generic driver. These drivers use CMYK color as
well,
> | so again, you are left with an approximation.
> 
> - Lester
> 
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Colour question

[Dov Isaacs]

Lester is right! And also be aware that NO, repeat NO,
repeat yet again NO Windows driver, whether PostScript
or otherwise, can accept CMYK from applications, except
for EPS passthrough with the PostScript driver, since
the Windows imaging model is totally RGB. Drivers can
output CMYK (as the PostScript driver does), but since
the input to the driver is GDI and GDI is totally RGB,
in general, an application program cannot communicate
CMYK directly to a print driver. This includes FrameMaker,
with the exception of EPS passthrough.

- Dov 

> -Original Message-
> From: lists.frameusers.com On Behalf Of Lester C. Smalley
> Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 1:55 PM
> Subject: RE: Colour question
> 
> As has been repeated in this forum, time and time again, if 
> you are 'printing' to PDF you should be using the Acrobat 
> Distiller print driver, and not the drivers for any specific 
> real or generic device.
> This should show up in your system (Windows) as the "Adobe 
> PDF" or "Acrobat Distiller" (if you have an older version of 
> Acrobat) printer.
> 
> While you may not have any immediate problems, there is the 
> strong possibility that the resulting PDF will not be 
> compatible for all devices, or suffer from other problems 
> which will rear their ugly heads at the most inopportune 
> times such as 15 minutes before a critical deadline.
> 
> And I am not convinced that the printer drivers in Windows 
> use CMYK - they may, but they may also just use RGB which is 
> what the Windows GDI (Graphic Device Interface) uses as it's 
> default color space.
> 
> On Friday, June 09, 2006 03:09 PM, Daniel Doornbos wrote:
> 
> < SNIP >
> 
> | When you print to PDF, you use a printer driver, either a specific
color
> | laser printer or a generic driver. These drivers use CMYK color as
well,
> | so again, you are left with an approximation.
> 
> - Lester
> 

Colour question

[etudsb...@cpaglobal.com]

I'm trying to create some colours for a FrameMaker template which
correspond to our corporate style guide and I'm finding it rather
difficult. One of our corporate colours is "Pantone 2627" which is a dark
violet. When I select Pantone 2627 in the Colour Definitions dialog box, it
does indeed look violet on the screen, but the CMYK values for Pantone 2627
(83C, 100M, 0Y, 23K) correspond to a blue -- and this is the colour I get
when I generate a PDF or print to a colour printer. Any ideas what I'm
doing wrong?

Thanks for any help.

Edwin Tudsbery
CPA Software Solutions



The information in this message is confidential and may be legally
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If you are not the intended recipient: (1) you are kindly requested
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Colour question

[Daniel Doornbos]

Dear Lester,

When you send a PDF file to an outside firm for printing, such as I
suggested for Edwin's project, your choice of printer driver can make a
big difference in output quality. The Adobe PDF driver is good when your
PDF is the final deliverable in the project, meaning it will be read
online or the user prints it.

But if your PDF is the means of transmitting your work for film or a
high-end digital printing press, the Adobe PDF driver may not give the
best results. I learned that lesson through hard experience. That is why
I urged Edwin to talk with his printing company before outputting his
files. They will know the best way to prepare his files for their
process.

Printer drivers do not use CMYK color. The driver is required by the
Windows OS in order to have a target to which you can print. The
printer, whether inkjet or laser, is the device that applies the CMYK
color.

CMYK is a subtractive color model, based on color as reflected from a
surface, such as a printed page. RGB is an additive color model, based
on color coming from a light source, such as your computer screen.

RGB graphics are designed for display on computer screens and
projectors. That is the reason the Windows GDI uses RGB. If you send RGB
graphics to the printer, the printer (or, in the case of inkjets, the
software) must interpret and convert the data to CMYK, because those are
the colors the printer can put onto the paper.

In most cases, the members of this forum probably are not involved with
offset or digital printing of their projects. As somebody who has worked
in that area, I will share my experience and let the readers decide for
themselves.

Daniel Doornbos
Technical Writer
Promise Technology, Inc.

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information contained in or attached to this
email message is either proprietary and/or confidential information, or
information intended solely for the use of the individual or entity
named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended
recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the
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distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.
If you have received this communication in error, please immediately
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you.



-Original Message-
From: framers-bounces+danield=promise@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces+danield=promise.com at lists.frameusers.com] On
Behalf Of Lester C. Smalley
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 1:55 PM
To: framers at frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Colour question


As has been repeated in this forum, time and time again, if you are
'printing' to PDF you should be using the Acrobat Distiller print
driver, and not the drivers for any specific real or generic device.
This should show up in your system (Windows) as the "Adobe PDF" or
"Acrobat Distiller" (if you have an older version of Acrobat) printer.

While you may not have any immediate problems, there is the strong
possibility that the resulting PDF will not be compatible for all
devices, or suffer from other problems which will rear their ugly heads
at the most inopportune times such as 15 minutes before a critical
deadline.

And I am not convinced that the printer drivers in Windows use CMYK -
they may, but they may also just use RGB which is what the Windows GDI
(Graphic Device Interface) uses as it's default color space.

On Friday, June 09, 2006 03:09 PM, Daniel Doornbos wrote:

< SNIP >

| When you print to PDF, you use a printer driver, either a specific
color
| laser printer or a generic driver. These drivers use CMYK color as
well,
| so again, you are left with an approximation.

- Lester 
---
Lester C. Smalley  Email: lsmalley AT infocon DOT com   
Information Consultants, Inc.  Phone: 302-239-2942 FAX: 302-239-1712
Yorklyn, DE  19736   Web: www.infocon.com   
---
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RE: Colour question

[Daniel Doornbos]

Dear Lester,

When you send a PDF file to an outside firm for printing, such as I
suggested for Edwin's project, your choice of printer driver can make a
big difference in output quality. The Adobe PDF driver is good when your
PDF is the final deliverable in the project, meaning it will be read
online or the user prints it.

But if your PDF is the means of transmitting your work for film or a
high-end digital printing press, the Adobe PDF driver may not give the
best results. I learned that lesson through hard experience. That is why
I urged Edwin to talk with his printing company before outputting his
files. They will know the best way to prepare his files for their
process.

Printer drivers do not use CMYK color. The driver is required by the
Windows OS in order to have a target to which you can print. The
printer, whether inkjet or laser, is the device that applies the CMYK
color.

CMYK is a subtractive color model, based on color as reflected from a
surface, such as a printed page. RGB is an additive color model, based
on color coming from a light source, such as your computer screen.

RGB graphics are designed for display on computer screens and
projectors. That is the reason the Windows GDI uses RGB. If you send RGB
graphics to the printer, the printer (or, in the case of inkjets, the
software) must interpret and convert the data to CMYK, because those are
the colors the printer can put onto the paper.

In most cases, the members of this forum probably are not involved with
offset or digital printing of their projects. As somebody who has worked
in that area, I will share my experience and let the readers decide for
themselves.

Daniel Doornbos
Technical Writer
Promise Technology, Inc.
 
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information contained in or attached to this
email message is either proprietary and/or confidential information, or
information intended solely for the use of the individual or entity
named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended
recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.
If you have received this communication in error, please immediately
notify us by email and delete the original message from your
computer/server with confirmation to us that you have done so.  Thank
you.
 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lester C. Smalley
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 1:55 PM
To: framers@frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Colour question


As has been repeated in this forum, time and time again, if you are
'printing' to PDF you should be using the Acrobat Distiller print
driver, and not the drivers for any specific real or generic device.
This should show up in your system (Windows) as the "Adobe PDF" or
"Acrobat Distiller" (if you have an older version of Acrobat) printer.

While you may not have any immediate problems, there is the strong
possibility that the resulting PDF will not be compatible for all
devices, or suffer from other problems which will rear their ugly heads
at the most inopportune times such as 15 minutes before a critical
deadline.

And I am not convinced that the printer drivers in Windows use CMYK -
they may, but they may also just use RGB which is what the Windows GDI
(Graphic Device Interface) uses as it's default color space.

On Friday, June 09, 2006 03:09 PM, Daniel Doornbos wrote:

< SNIP >

| When you print to PDF, you use a printer driver, either a specific
color
| laser printer or a generic driver. These drivers use CMYK color as
well,
| so again, you are left with an approximation.

- Lester 
---
Lester C. Smalley  Email: lsmalley AT infocon DOT com   
Information Consultants, Inc.  Phone: 302-239-2942 FAX: 302-239-1712
Yorklyn, DE  19736   Web: www.infocon.com   
---
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Colour question

[Lester C. Smalley]

As has been repeated in this forum, time and time again, if you are
'printing' to PDF you should be using the Acrobat Distiller print
driver, and not the drivers for any specific real or generic device.
This should show up in your system (Windows) as the "Adobe PDF" or
"Acrobat Distiller" (if you have an older version of Acrobat) printer.

While you may not have any immediate problems, there is the strong
possibility that the resulting PDF will not be compatible for all
devices, or suffer from other problems which will rear their ugly heads
at the most inopportune times such as 15 minutes before a critical
deadline.

And I am not convinced that the printer drivers in Windows use CMYK -
they may, but they may also just use RGB which is what the Windows GDI
(Graphic Device Interface) uses as it's default color space.

On Friday, June 09, 2006 03:09 PM, Daniel Doornbos wrote:

< SNIP >

| When you print to PDF, you use a printer driver, either a specific
color
| laser printer or a generic driver. These drivers use CMYK color as
well,
| so again, you are left with an approximation.

- Lester 
---
Lester C. Smalley  Email: lsmalley AT infocon DOT com   
Information Consultants, Inc.  Phone: 302-239-2942 FAX: 302-239-1712
Yorklyn, DE  19736   Web: www.infocon.com   
---

Variables vs Cross-references [WAS: Hiding Pages?]

[eric.d...@ca.transport.bombardier.com]

"Combs, Richard"  wrote on 06/09/2006 01:09:11 
PM:
> I deliver primarily PDFs, and I wouldn't use xrefs in this way because
> they'd become working hyperlinks in the PDFs. Ugh!

Not a problem. You just change all those Xrefs into text and all is good.

The Xref formats used for the purpose of terminology are used ONLY for 
terminology...

Eric L. Dunn
Senior Technical Writer

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RE: Framemaker and Translation

[Maxwell Hoffmann]

FrameUsers:

I wanted to clarify the information on some of the pre-recorded webinars
available from www.translate.com (ENLASO.) We have conducted a number of
free webinars, several of which have centered on translating/localizing
regular and structured FrameMaker documents. 

You can request any of the webinar recordings listed below (which are
related to FrameMaker or general production) by sending an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] which included the title of the webinar.  You can
also register on www.translate.com for our periodic newsletter.

We have an upcoming Webinar you may register for: June 29 @ 11:00 AM PDT
A growing market: Non-English speakers in the US
At (you may have to edit broken line endings if cutting/pasting this
URL) : 
https://enlaso.webex.com/enlaso/mywebex/epmainframe.php?rlink=https%3A%2
F%2Fenlaso.webex.com%2Fenlaso%2Fonstage%2Fmainframe.php%3Fmainurl%3D%2Fe
nlaso%2Fonstage%2Ftool%2Fevent%2Fevent_detail.php%3FEventID%3D277505067%
26FirstEnter%3D1%26GuestTimeZone%3D%26SourceId%3D&Rnd2424=0.355608612377
8569
 

PREVIOUS WEBINARS AVAILABLE:
Structured FrameMaker with Doug Pearson:
Description: This Webinar features expert localization engineer Doug
Pearson in an intensive one-hour webinar that explores how structured
FrameMaker7 files streamline multilingual publishing and product
localization processes - improving overall project quality, cost, and
turnaround. 
XML and Localization with Yves Savourel:
Description: In an intensive one-hour webinar using dynamic examples and
demonstrations, Yves Savourel explores the benefits and advantages of
XML in localization, even when the localizable data is not in an XML
format. The session also explores the translation of XML documents and
how to overcome some of the challenges XML-enabled tools still offer.
Successful Documentation Localization with Max Hoffmann:
Description: The intensive one-hour Webinar explores fundamental
documentation localization management concepts that improve processes,
costs, and performance associated with multilingual global projects.
Using dynamic examples and demonstrations, Hoffmann will provide fresh
insights and solutions for successful documentation
internationalization, localization, and translation-highlighting
single-source strategies.
Effective Localization Project Handoff Management with Yusuke Kirimoto:
Description: In Olympic relay racing, the difference between first and
second place in the sprint relays is usually measured in tenths or
hundredths of a second. Therefore, precise execution of the "handoff" is
paramount to success. Project handoffs in localization carry the same
consequences as global companies sprint to maintain global market
leadership. Localization projects require the coordination of myriad
combinations of professionals and technologies facing complex
linguistic, cultural, content, and technical challenges.
Successful Documentation Localization Management - Part II with Max
Hoffmann:
Description: Successful Documentation Localization Management - Part II
features again documentation expert Max Hoffmann. This intensive
one-hour Webinar covers critical concepts essential to successful
localization of documentation. Hoffman will also talk about checklists
and recommendations that lead to improved processes, reduced costs, and
successful delivery of multilingual global projects. Using dynamic
examples and demonstrations, Hoffmann will provide further insights and
solutions for successful documentation internationalization,
localization, and translation. The Webinar will also cover single-source
publishing solutions.
Localization 101 - Where Do You Start And How Do You Go About It? with
Yves Lang :
Description: Localization 101, is designed for "newer" professionals who
are responsible for the planning and execution of multilingual product
development. The intensive one-hour Webinar presentation will explore
fundamental localization management concepts that improve enterprise
processes, costs, and performance.
Maxwell Hoffmann
Manager of Applications Engineering
ENLASO Corporation 
T: 805 494 9571 * F: 805 435 1920 
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ENLASO Corporation provides quality enterprise language solutions and
exceeds client expectations through continuing research, development,
and implementation of effective localization processes and technologies.

Visit: www.translate.com for more information or to subscribe to our
complimentary localization newsletter.

Message: 15
Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2006 19:38:05 +
From: "karyn hunt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: Framemaker and Translation
To: framers@frameusers.com
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

Another place to bone up quickly: There's a company called E

Framemaker and Translation

[Maxwell Hoffmann]

FrameUsers:

I wanted to clarify the information on some of the pre-recorded webinars
available from www.translate.com (ENLASO.) We have conducted a number of
free webinars, several of which have centered on translating/localizing
regular and structured FrameMaker documents. 

You can request any of the webinar recordings listed below (which are
related to FrameMaker or general production) by sending an e-mail to
chris at translate.com which included the title of the webinar.  You can
also register on www.translate.com for our periodic newsletter.

We have an upcoming Webinar you may register for: June 29 @ 11:00 AM PDT
A growing market: Non-English speakers in the US
At (you may have to edit broken line endings if cutting/pasting this
URL) : 
https://enlaso.webex.com/enlaso/mywebex/epmainframe.php?rlink=https%3A%2
F%2Fenlaso.webex.com%2Fenlaso%2Fonstage%2Fmainframe.php%3Fmainurl%3D%2Fe
nlaso%2Fonstage%2Ftool%2Fevent%2Fevent_detail.php%3FEventID%3D277505067%
26FirstEnter%3D1%26GuestTimeZone%3D%26SourceId%3D&Rnd2424=0.355608612377
8569
 

PREVIOUS WEBINARS AVAILABLE:
Structured FrameMaker with Doug Pearson:
Description: This Webinar features expert localization engineer Doug
Pearson in an intensive one-hour webinar that explores how structured
FrameMaker7 files streamline multilingual publishing and product
localization processes - improving overall project quality, cost, and
turnaround. 
XML and Localization with Yves Savourel:
Description: In an intensive one-hour webinar using dynamic examples and
demonstrations, Yves Savourel explores the benefits and advantages of
XML in localization, even when the localizable data is not in an XML
format. The session also explores the translation of XML documents and
how to overcome some of the challenges XML-enabled tools still offer.
Successful Documentation Localization with Max Hoffmann:
Description: The intensive one-hour Webinar explores fundamental
documentation localization management concepts that improve processes,
costs, and performance associated with multilingual global projects.
Using dynamic examples and demonstrations, Hoffmann will provide fresh
insights and solutions for successful documentation
internationalization, localization, and translation-highlighting
single-source strategies.
Effective Localization Project Handoff Management with Yusuke Kirimoto:
Description: In Olympic relay racing, the difference between first and
second place in the sprint relays is usually measured in tenths or
hundredths of a second. Therefore, precise execution of the "handoff" is
paramount to success. Project handoffs in localization carry the same
consequences as global companies sprint to maintain global market
leadership. Localization projects require the coordination of myriad
combinations of professionals and technologies facing complex
linguistic, cultural, content, and technical challenges.
Successful Documentation Localization Management - Part II with Max
Hoffmann:
Description: Successful Documentation Localization Management - Part II
features again documentation expert Max Hoffmann. This intensive
one-hour Webinar covers critical concepts essential to successful
localization of documentation. Hoffman will also talk about checklists
and recommendations that lead to improved processes, reduced costs, and
successful delivery of multilingual global projects. Using dynamic
examples and demonstrations, Hoffmann will provide further insights and
solutions for successful documentation internationalization,
localization, and translation. The Webinar will also cover single-source
publishing solutions.
Localization 101 - Where Do You Start And How Do You Go About It? with
Yves Lang :
Description: Localization 101, is designed for "newer" professionals who
are responsible for the planning and execution of multilingual product
development. The intensive one-hour Webinar presentation will explore
fundamental localization management concepts that improve enterprise
processes, costs, and performance.
Maxwell Hoffmann
Manager of Applications Engineering
ENLASO Corporation 
T: 805 494 9571 * F: 805 435 1920 
E: mhoffmann at translate.com
ENLASO Corporation provides quality enterprise language solutions and
exceeds client expectations through continuing research, development,
and implementation of effective localization processes and technologies.

Visit: www.translate.com for more information or to subscribe to our
complimentary localization newsletter.

Message: 15
Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2006 19:38:05 +
From: "karyn hunt" 
Subject: RE: Framemaker and Translation
To: framers at frameusers.com
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

Another place to bone up quickly: There's a company called Enlaso that
does 
tran

RE: Importing text insets

[Shelly Schneider]

This isn't drag and drop, but you could use the shortcut keys for
importing files - 
ESC f-i-f. It's faster than going to the menu, anyway.   -Shelly


-Original Message-
Doug <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 06/09/2006 12:03:18 PM:

> Is there a way import text insets by dragging and dropping them into
> an open Frame document?  It's irritating to have to jump through the
> menu hoops when you have a large number of files to import.

> --Doug


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RE: Colour question

[Lester C. Smalley]

As has been repeated in this forum, time and time again, if you are
'printing' to PDF you should be using the Acrobat Distiller print
driver, and not the drivers for any specific real or generic device.
This should show up in your system (Windows) as the "Adobe PDF" or
"Acrobat Distiller" (if you have an older version of Acrobat) printer.

While you may not have any immediate problems, there is the strong
possibility that the resulting PDF will not be compatible for all
devices, or suffer from other problems which will rear their ugly heads
at the most inopportune times such as 15 minutes before a critical
deadline.

And I am not convinced that the printer drivers in Windows use CMYK -
they may, but they may also just use RGB which is what the Windows GDI
(Graphic Device Interface) uses as it's default color space.

On Friday, June 09, 2006 03:09 PM, Daniel Doornbos wrote:

< SNIP >

| When you print to PDF, you use a printer driver, either a specific
color
| laser printer or a generic driver. These drivers use CMYK color as
well,
| so again, you are left with an approximation.

- Lester 
---
Lester C. Smalley  Email: lsmalley AT infocon DOT com   
Information Consultants, Inc.  Phone: 302-239-2942 FAX: 302-239-1712
Yorklyn, DE  19736   Web: www.infocon.com   
---
___


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RE: Variables vs Cross-references [WAS: Hiding Pages?]

[Rene Stephenson]

Changing to text destroys the purpose of using the xref (e.g., one-stop
updating/changes). I think you can modify PDF setup not to convert xrefs
to hyperlinks... but if you have functional xrefs for other purposes, you
might not want to do that. So much depends on what you've already done in
the rest of the book...and whether it would impact the rest of the
library...

Rene Stephenson

--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> "Combs, Richard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 06/09/2006
> 01:09:11 
> PM:
> > I deliver primarily PDFs, and I wouldn't use xrefs in this way because
> > they'd become working hyperlinks in the PDFs. Ugh!
> 
> Not a problem. You just change all those Xrefs into text and all is
> good.
> 
> The Xref formats used for the purpose of terminology are used ONLY for 
> terminology...
> 
> Eric L. Dunn
> Senior Technical Writer
> 
>
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Rene L. Stephenson
eNovative Solutions, Inc.
Business Phone: 678-513-0051
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]




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Variables vs Cross-references [WAS: Hiding Pages?]

[Rene Stephenson]

Changing to text destroys the purpose of using the xref (e.g., one-stop
updating/changes). I think you can modify PDF setup not to convert xrefs
to hyperlinks... but if you have functional xrefs for other purposes, you
might not want to do that. So much depends on what you've already done in
the rest of the book...and whether it would impact the rest of the
library...

Rene Stephenson

--- eric.dunn at ca.transport.bombardier.com wrote:

> "Combs, Richard"  wrote on 06/09/2006
> 01:09:11 
> PM:
> > I deliver primarily PDFs, and I wouldn't use xrefs in this way because
> > they'd become working hyperlinks in the PDFs. Ugh!
> 
> Not a problem. You just change all those Xrefs into text and all is
> good.
> 
> The Xref formats used for the purpose of terminology are used ONLY for 
> terminology...
> 
> Eric L. Dunn
> Senior Technical Writer
> 
>
___
> 
> 
> This e-mail communication (and any attachment/s) may contain
> confidential 
> or privileged information and is intended only for the individual(s) or 
> entity named above and to others who have been specifically authorized
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> receive it. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not read, 
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>
_
> 
> 
> 
> Ce message (ainsi que le(s) fichier/s), transmis par courriel, peut 
> contenir des renseignements confidentiels ou prot???g???s et est
destin??? ??? 
> l?usage exclusif du destinataire ci-dessus. Toute autre personne est par
> 
> les pr???sentes avis???e qu?il est strictement interdit de le diffuser,
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> distribuer ou le reproduire. Si vous l?avez re???u par inadvertance, 
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_
> 
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> ___
> 
> 
> You are currently subscribed to Framers as rinnie1 at yahoo.com.
> 
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> 
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
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> 


Rene L. Stephenson
eNovative Solutions, Inc.
Business Phone: 678-513-0051
Email: rinnie1 at yahoo.com

Re: Variables vs Cross-references [WAS: Hiding Pages?]

[Rene Stephenson]

Eric,

Nice innovation.

One of the challenges some writing teams face is project portability vs.
linking to shared content on a network. Sometimes variables provide a way
to maintain portability and standards without requiring a live connection
to a LAN architecture. Single-sourcing and using shared content across
multiple documents in a library and among several writers at various
locations can get challenging. Your solution could work for some
situations that come to my mind, though. 

In my experience, you can format a cross-reference by using various
character tags in the cross-reference definition, but any cross-reference
otherwise uses the paragraph formatting of the destination, rather than
the source. For most traditional uses of cross-referencing, this default
works well. Whether you can flip that around by hacking at something, I
don't know...but I usually avoid changing .ini files and the like, if at
all possible.

Rene Stephenson

--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> What are the downsides? Well, so far nothing. But I have an itch in the 
> back of my skull concerning Xrefs and character formatting that I just 
> can't shake. Something as to whether character formatting applied in the
> 
> source (all character tagging is done using catalogue formats common to 
> source and destination) is kept in the destination or not...
> 
> Anyone know what I should be worrying about?
> 
> Eric L. Dunn
> Senior Technical Writer
> 

Rene L. Stephenson
eNovative Solutions, Inc.
Business Phone: 678-513-0051
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]




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Variables vs Cross-references [WAS: Hiding Pages?]

[Rene Stephenson]

Eric,

Nice innovation.

One of the challenges some writing teams face is project portability vs.
linking to shared content on a network. Sometimes variables provide a way
to maintain portability and standards without requiring a live connection
to a LAN architecture. Single-sourcing and using shared content across
multiple documents in a library and among several writers at various
locations can get challenging. Your solution could work for some
situations that come to my mind, though. 

In my experience, you can format a cross-reference by using various
character tags in the cross-reference definition, but any cross-reference
otherwise uses the paragraph formatting of the destination, rather than
the source. For most traditional uses of cross-referencing, this default
works well. Whether you can flip that around by hacking at something, I
don't know...but I usually avoid changing .ini files and the like, if at
all possible.

Rene Stephenson

--- eric.dunn at ca.transport.bombardier.com wrote:

> What are the downsides? Well, so far nothing. But I have an itch in the 
> back of my skull concerning Xrefs and character formatting that I just 
> can't shake. Something as to whether character formatting applied in the
> 
> source (all character tagging is done using catalogue formats common to 
> source and destination) is kept in the destination or not...
> 
> Anyone know what I should be worrying about?
> 
> Eric L. Dunn
> Senior Technical Writer
> 

Rene L. Stephenson
eNovative Solutions, Inc.
Business Phone: 678-513-0051
Email: rinnie1 at yahoo.com

Variables vs Cross-references vs Text Insets [WAS: HidingPages?]

[nancy carpenter]

Okay, open mouth and insert foot.  I know they are different, but I made a
sloppy jump in logic and communication.  Still have not grown out of that
habit. : ) I was thinking that a cross reference might solve a problem that
I have with text insets.  I will open that in another thread.

Nancy Carpenter
Lead Technical Writer
GENCO Distribution System
100 Papercraft Park
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15238



  "Fred Ridder" 
   
   cc:  
   
   Subject:  Re: Variables vs 
Cross-references vs Text Insets [WAS: HidingPages?]  
  06/09/2006 11:23  
   
  AM
   






Umm, I think you're comingling two different things. Text insets
(content inserted by reference) are quite different than
cross-references. Eric was talking about cross-references, but
in your reply you seem to be talking about text insets although
you use both terms.

Text insets are used to import the content of a named text flow,
usually in a separate, external file. There is no limit to the size of
text insets; they can be as small as a single word, if that is all that
is contained in the referenced flow (although in this case you
have to remember to choose the Insert as Plain Text option) or
can be as large as hundreds of pages.

Cross-references generate a text string in the local document
based on the location of a cross-reference marker that exists in
some FrameMaker document (either the current file or a separate
one). The content of the text string can br defined in the cross-
reference format, and can inlcude literal text as well as picking
up various properties rlated to the marker, such as the page
number of the page where it's located, all or part of any
auto-numbering that is applied to the paragraph containing the
marker, or the text of the paragraph itself. There is no possibility
for a cross-reference to pick up more than a single paragraph's
contents (the paragraph where the marker is located) although
there is no real limit on how big that single paragraph can be.

Fred Ridder
Intel
Parsippany, NJ


>From: nancy carpenter 
>To: framers at frameusers.com
>Subject: Re: Variables vs Cross-references vs Text Insets [WAS:
>HidingPages?]
>Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 10:39:11 -0400
>
>This might work better than text insets.  I use text insets for
definitions
>of fields on screens and for introductory paragraphs that are used in more
>than one chapter.  Is there a limit to how much text you can insert with a
>cross reference?  My introductions often are two or three paragraphs.
>
>Nancy Carpenter
>Lead Technical Writer
>GENCO Distribution System
>100 Papercraft Park
>Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15238
>
>
>|-+--->
>| |   eric.dunn at ca.transport.bombardier.com   |
>| |   Sent by:|
>| |   framers-bounces+carpentn=genco.com at lists.fra|
>| |   meusers.com |
>| |   |
>| |   |
>| |   06/09/2006 09:58 AM |
>| |   |
>|-+--->
>
>
>--|

>   |

>   |
>   |   To:   "Ridder, Fred" 

>   |
>   |   cc:   framers at frameusers.com

>   |
>   |   Subject:  Variables vs Cross-references [WAS: Hiding Pages?]

>   |
>
>
>--|

>
>
>
>
>"Ridder, Fred"  wrote on 06/08/2006 11:57:39 AM:
> > In a situation where only the name changes, I find that it is *much*
> > more maintainable to use a variable for the product name because
> > you only have to make a change in one place (the variable's value
> > definition) when one of the names changes or when a new variant
> > is added to the list.
>
>Personally, I don't like conditional text. Usually it gets far too complex
>very quickly and you're hobbled by the limitation of OR logic for
>overlapping conditions.
>
>But, are variables the right answer? Why not Xrefs instead?
>
>Perhaps this idea isn't terribly Earth shattering, but it came to me in a
>flash and I've

Importing text insets

[eric.d...@ca.transport.bombardier.com]

Sounds like a job for FrameScript...

Eric L. Dunn
Senior Technical Writer

Doug  wrote on 06/09/2006 12:03:18 PM:

> Is there a way import text insets by dragging and dropping them into
> an open Frame document?  It's irritating to have to jump through the
> menu hoops when you have a large number of files to import.

> --Doug



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Variables vs Cross-references vs Text Insets [WAS: Hiding Pages?]

[eric.d...@ca.transport.bombardier.com]

The text content of a cross-reference is limited by what you can build 
using the Xref building blocks. It may be possible to have a Xref that 
produces multiple paragraphs (Using \R in the def?) but I doubt it would 
be workable.

But to combine multiple paragraphs, you need to have information that's 
consistently tagged and organised. Then, it's only really workable to 
create strings as I have done.

For multiple paras, I'd stick to insets.

Eric L. Dunn
Senior Technical Writer

framers-bounces+eric.dunn=ca.transport.bombardier.com at lists.frameusers.com 
wrote on 06/09/2006 10:41:06 AM:

> No...I've imported documents that were hundreds of pages long into
> another document.

> Of course, everything has a limit...maybe a million pages might be a
> problem?

> > than one chapter.  Is there a limit to how much text you can insert
> > with a cross reference?  My introductions often are two or three
> > paragraphs.

> 
> John Posada
> Senior Technical Writer

> "So long and thanks for all the fish."
> ___


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Merci. 
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RE: Variables vs Cross-references [WAS: Hiding Pages?]

[eric . dunn]

"Combs, Richard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 06/09/2006 01:09:11 
PM:
> I deliver primarily PDFs, and I wouldn't use xrefs in this way because
> they'd become working hyperlinks in the PDFs. Ugh!

Not a problem. You just change all those Xrefs into text and all is good.

The Xref formats used for the purpose of terminology are used ONLY for 
terminology...

Eric L. Dunn
Senior Technical Writer

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Things dropping out when printed

[Art Campbell]

See if the dpi setting you're using is 600 dpi, and if it is, set it
to a lower setting.

There was a bug that afflicted this particular combo of settings, went
away for a while, and
has manifested itself (at least on my systems) following an Acrobat 7
automatic upgrade.

The other thing to try is to print to a PS file and use the full
version of Acrobat to distill it.

Art

On 5/31/06, Robert Kern  wrote:
> I am running Frame 7.2 on XP. After installing 3 FramePlugins from
> Silicon Graphics (two of which I've used for years), when I go to print
> to either my PS laser printer or to PDF, massive amounts of content drop
> out of the output. I rebooted to clear any memory leaks, but it didn't
> fix the problem. Uninstalling the plugins also didn't help, nor did
> reinstalling Frame 7.2. I tried with an older version of Frame 7.1 that
> I still have installed and got the same problem.  So, I'm guessing that
> this is a PS driver issue and am presently downloading PS 3 winsteng
> 1.0.6 to reinstall it.
>
> Has anybody had this happen to them?  If so, was reinstalling PS printer
> driver the solution?
> What might I have done to corrupt things?
>
> -bob
> __
> Robert Kern
> President, TIPS Technical Publishing, Inc.
> 108 E. Main Street, Suite 4
> Carrboro, NC  27510
> www.technicalpublishing.com
> bob at technicalpublishing.com
> 919-933-2629 phone
> 919-338-2899 fax
>


-- 
Art Campbell art.campbell at 
gmail.com
  "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent
   and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
 No disclaimers apply.
 DoD 358

Colour question

[Daniel Doornbos]

Dear Edwin,

Pantone and CMYK are two completely different color (colour) schemes.

A printing press operator can either buy ink in a specific Pantone color
or mix the ink from an exact recipe of colors and proportions. People
use Pantone color when they need an exact color. Pantone colors are
designed for offset printing.

CMYK, which stands for Cyan, Magenta, Yellow and blacK (or Key), also
known as "four-color process," is a system of printing rosettes
(overlaid dot patterns) in these four specific inks. People use CMYK for
photographs or when an approximate color is acceptable.

In your case, it sounds like the problem is the fact that you are
outputting to a color laser printer. Laser printers use CMYK toners, so
the color is only approximate. You did it right, the printer did the
best it could.

When you print to PDF, you use a printer driver, either a specific color
laser printer or a generic driver. These drivers use CMYK color as well,
so again, you are left with an approximation.

If you are printing something that requires exact color, such as Pantone
2627, the best approach--assuming there are funds available to pay for
it--is to have the project printed on an offset press. If you choose
offset printing, be sure to check with your printing company as to how
you should prepare your files for color separation, that is, which
elements print in black, which print in Pantone 2627, and so on.

If you don't have the money for an offset print job, you could
experiment by specifying different Pantone colors, to find one that
prints closely enough on your laser printer or PDF. If you can, borrow a
Pantone "color bridge" booklet, which shows each Pantone color beside a
CMYK approximation. Visit the Pantone website at http://www.pantone.com
and look around.

Bear in mind that Pantone system was designed for ink but laser printers
use toner, so the actual results will vary somewhat.

Best wishes! 

Daniel Doornbos
Technical Writer
Promise Technology, Inc.

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-Original Message-
From: framers-bounces+danield=promise@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces+danield=promise.com at lists.frameusers.com] On
Behalf Of ETudsbery at cpaglobal.com
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 9:40 AM
To: framers at frameusers.com
Subject: Colour question




I'm trying to create some colours for a FrameMaker template which
correspond to our corporate style guide and I'm finding it rather
difficult. One of our corporate colours is "Pantone 2627" which is a
dark violet. When I select Pantone 2627 in the Colour Definitions dialog
box, it does indeed look violet on the screen, but the CMYK values for
Pantone 2627 (83C, 100M, 0Y, 23K) correspond to a blue -- and this is
the colour I get when I generate a PDF or print to a colour printer. Any
ideas what I'm doing wrong?

Thanks for any help.

Edwin Tudsbery
CPA Software Solutions




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RE: Colour question

[Daniel Doornbos]

Dear Edwin,

Pantone and CMYK are two completely different color (colour) schemes.

A printing press operator can either buy ink in a specific Pantone color
or mix the ink from an exact recipe of colors and proportions. People
use Pantone color when they need an exact color. Pantone colors are
designed for offset printing.

CMYK, which stands for Cyan, Magenta, Yellow and blacK (or Key), also
known as "four-color process," is a system of printing rosettes
(overlaid dot patterns) in these four specific inks. People use CMYK for
photographs or when an approximate color is acceptable.

In your case, it sounds like the problem is the fact that you are
outputting to a color laser printer. Laser printers use CMYK toners, so
the color is only approximate. You did it right, the printer did the
best it could.

When you print to PDF, you use a printer driver, either a specific color
laser printer or a generic driver. These drivers use CMYK color as well,
so again, you are left with an approximation.

If you are printing something that requires exact color, such as Pantone
2627, the best approach--assuming there are funds available to pay for
it--is to have the project printed on an offset press. If you choose
offset printing, be sure to check with your printing company as to how
you should prepare your files for color separation, that is, which
elements print in black, which print in Pantone 2627, and so on.

If you don't have the money for an offset print job, you could
experiment by specifying different Pantone colors, to find one that
prints closely enough on your laser printer or PDF. If you can, borrow a
Pantone "color bridge" booklet, which shows each Pantone color beside a
CMYK approximation. Visit the Pantone website at http://www.pantone.com
and look around.

Bear in mind that Pantone system was designed for ink but laser printers
use toner, so the actual results will vary somewhat.

Best wishes! 

Daniel Doornbos
Technical Writer
Promise Technology, Inc.
 
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information contained in or attached to this
email message is either proprietary and/or confidential information, or
information intended solely for the use of the individual or entity
named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended
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-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 9:40 AM
To: framers@frameusers.com
Subject: Colour question




I'm trying to create some colours for a FrameMaker template which
correspond to our corporate style guide and I'm finding it rather
difficult. One of our corporate colours is "Pantone 2627" which is a
dark violet. When I select Pantone 2627 in the Colour Definitions dialog
box, it does indeed look violet on the screen, but the CMYK values for
Pantone 2627 (83C, 100M, 0Y, 23K) correspond to a blue -- and this is
the colour I get when I generate a PDF or print to a colour printer. Any
ideas what I'm doing wrong?

Thanks for any help.

Edwin Tudsbery
CPA Software Solutions




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Variables vs Cross-references [WAS: Hiding Pages?]

[Combs, Richard]

Eric Dunn wrote:  

> The situation was this: hundreds of components, multiple ways 
> of writing their descriptions, abbreviations, and 
> specifications which led to an unmanageable mass of variables.
> 
> So, I turned to cross-references.
 
> What are the downsides? Well, so far nothing. But I have an 
> itch in the back of my skull concerning Xrefs and character 
> formatting that I just can't shake. Something as to whether 
> character formatting applied in the source (all character 
> tagging is done using catalogue formats common to source and 
> destination) is kept in the destination or not...
> 
> Anyone know what I should be worrying about?

Yeah, potentially char formats, but maybe not. IIRC, there are some
formatting characteristics that are preserved in xrefs and some that
aren't. I think the basic variants of a font (e.g., bold, italic) are
discarded, but significant changes (e.g., Symbol, superscript) are
preserved. I'm afraid I don't recall the details -- maybe someone else
does? 

I deliver primarily PDFs, and I wouldn't use xrefs in this way because
they'd become working hyperlinks in the PDFs. Ugh! 

If your deliverables are printed books, of course, this isn't an issue.
:-) 

Richard


--
Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--

Importing text insets

[Doug]

Is there a way import text insets by dragging and dropping them into
an open Frame document?  It's irritating to have to jump through the
menu hoops when you have a large number of files to import.

--Doug

Hiding Pages?

[Steve Rickaby]

At 14:39 -0400 8/6/06, Schoen, Brady wrote:

>What I have is a "Parts Drawing" on the left, and the "Parts Listing" on the
>right for each brand. The entire page is specific to each brand, not just a
>word or the drawing, the entire page. What I did was put all 8 decal pages
>(1 Drawing page and 1 parts listing page for each brand x 4
>brands)consecutively in the book. I then highlighted everything on the pages
>and tagged everything I wanted shown for each brand as a different tag. What
>happens is when I hide 3 tags and show the 1 I want in the book, it leaves a
>blank page for all the other brands decal pages that are now hidden. If I
>delete the extra pages, I can't get it to show the other three tagged items
>again. Any ideas?

Brady - all the ideas presented here already would handle some or all of your 
issues if used correctly. However, from your description above, I wonder 
whether the variant information is not - or can be made not - part of the flow 
of the remainder of the document(s), *and* that entires page's contents are 
variant? If this is the case, possibly your simplest approach to conditional 
tags, which should get round the blank page issue you mention, is to place all 
the variant page content within an anchored frame, and conditionalize that. 
Turing off the tag will then conceal the entire frame's contents - rather than 
conditionalizing it item by item.

If you try this, be aware that FrameMaker allows you to conditionalize *both* 
an anchored frame [i.e. its anchor] *and* the paragraph/text in which it lies. 
The results of not displaying the tagged material will differ: in one case only 
the frame will disappear, in the other its enclosing text/paragraph will also 
disappear. You probably want to tag the paragraph that encloses the anchored 
frame.
-- 
Steve

Hiding Pages?

[Grant Hogarth]

Likewise here, as well as text insets from Reference pages.

Variables = Names, short strings (ex: "Select this option to enable",
"xth", "For more information, refer to:", etc.)

Insets =  Table cells whose contents are identical, functionality that
appears repeated times (example we have a tab that appears for every
analysis; while I could make it a "general info" entry, the other tabs
in this dialog are discussed in detail for each individual analysis.
This is for HTML, not hardcopy, which would mean jumping back and forth.
With an insert, I can ensure that the same text appears for each
analysis. (Yes, I should probably re-architect this document, but that's
currently not an option.)

Conditions = We deliver a product that has various function levels
(Standard, Premium, Advanced). Each level subsumeds the entirety of the
previous level.  So I have tagged those features which aare in Premium
and Advanced with Premium, and those which are in Advanced are also
tagged with Advanced. Setting the condition removes the tagged item(s)
from view.

Grant

-Original Message-
From: framers-bounces+grant.hogarth=reuters@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces+grant.hogarth=reuters.com at lists.frameusers.com]
On Behalf Of Beck, Charles
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 7:02 AM
To: Ridder, Fred; Anne Robotti; Schoen, Brady
Cc: framers at frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Hiding Pages?

Actually, where I have worked in the past, we used a combination of both
variables *and* conditional text for multiple versions of a product. 

FWIW.
Chuck Beck


-Original Message-
Subject: RE: Hiding Pages?

In a situation where only the name changes, I find that it is *much*
more maintainable to use a variable for the product name because you
only have to make a change in one place (the variable's value
definition) when one of the names changes or when a new variant is added
to the list. If you use conditional text for product names, you have to
use Find/Change to locate and update every instance of any name that
changes and you have to add a new condition and explicitly add new
conditionalized content in each appropriate location when a new product
name is added to the list. It's *much* more time consuming and *much*
more prone to errors (particularly considering the shortcomings of
FrameMaker's Find/Change command).

My opinions only; I don't speak for Intel.
Fred Ridder (fred dot ridder at intel dot com) Intel Parsippany, NJ
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Variables vs Cross-references vs Text Insets [WAS: Hiding Pages?]

[nancy carpenter]

This might work better than text insets.  I use text insets for definitions
of fields on screens and for introductory paragraphs that are used in more
than one chapter.  Is there a limit to how much text you can insert with a
cross reference?  My introductions often are two or three paragraphs.

Nancy Carpenter
Lead Technical Writer
GENCO Distribution System
100 Papercraft Park
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15238


|-+--->
| |   eric.dunn at ca.transport.bombardier.com   |
| |   Sent by:|
| |   framers-bounces+carpentn=genco.com at lists.fra|
| |   meusers.com |
| |   |
| |   |
| |   06/09/2006 09:58 AM |
| |   |
|-+--->
  
>--|
  | 
 |
  |   To:   "Ridder, Fred"
|
  |   cc:   framers at frameusers.com   
|
  |   Subject:  Variables vs Cross-references [WAS: Hiding Pages?]  
 |
  
>--|




"Ridder, Fred"  wrote on 06/08/2006 11:57:39 AM:
> In a situation where only the name changes, I find that it is *much*
> more maintainable to use a variable for the product name because
> you only have to make a change in one place (the variable's value
> definition) when one of the names changes or when a new variant
> is added to the list.

Personally, I don't like conditional text. Usually it gets far too complex
very quickly and you're hobbled by the limitation of OR logic for
overlapping conditions.

But, are variables the right answer? Why not Xrefs instead?

Perhaps this idea isn't terribly Earth shattering, but it came to me in a
flash and I've been using it successfully for some time now. The idea
struck me as more of a 'DUH' kind of realisation when I implemented it,
but after giving a FrameMaker class, I was amazed at how foreign the idea
seemed to so many.

The situation was this: hundreds of components, multiple ways of writing
their descriptions, abbreviations, and specifications which led to an
unmanageable mass of variables.

So, I turned to cross-references.

A stand-alone document contains a three column table.
Column 1 - CB Number
Column 2 - CB Placard
Column 3 - Complete description

ex:
CB1 LIGHTINGCB1, LIGHTING

Three cross-reference formats are used:
1 - CBNumber
2 - CBPlacard
3 - CBPlacard (Num)

So, depending on the requirements I can include CB1, LIGHTING, or LIGHTING
(CB1) in my documentation.

If the placard or information changes, I change the source document and
that's it. A generate update of all books ensures the data is correct.

I've actually begun using the same approach for terms and equipment names.
Any text that needs to maintain consistency is grouped with like terms in
a file.

So three HUGE advantages IMO. First, no need to maintain a MIF snippet of
variables or using a script/plug-in to import user variables only (because
invariably, one or more of the system variables are defined differently
for different sections/files). Second, instead of hundreds of variables, I
have 3 Xref formats. Third, generating and updating is already a step in
the publishing process. So, the step of importing variables is skipped and
not there to be forgotten.

What are the downsides? Well, so far nothing. But I have an itch in the
back of my skull concerning Xrefs and character formatting that I just
can't shake. Something as to whether character formatting applied in the
source (all character tagging is done using catalogue formats common to
source and destination) is kept in the destination or not...

Anyone know what I should be worrying about?

Eric L. Dunn
Senior Technical Writer

___


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Importing text insets

[Shelly Schneider]

This isn't drag and drop, but you could use the shortcut keys for
importing files - 
ESC f-i-f. It's faster than going to the menu, anyway.   -Shelly


-Original Message-
Doug  wrote on 06/09/2006 12:03:18 PM:

> Is there a way import text insets by dragging and dropping them into
> an open Frame document?  It's irritating to have to jump through the
> menu hoops when you have a large number of files to import.

> --Doug

RE: Variables vs Cross-references [WAS: Hiding Pages?]

[Debbi Correia]

> I deliver primarily PDFs, and I wouldn't use xrefs in this 
> way because they'd become working hyperlinks in the PDFs. Ugh! 

Actually they'd become BROKEN hyperlinks, since most likely the
referenced document isn't included in the doc set!

Deb Correia


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Variables vs Cross-references [WAS: Hiding Pages?]

[Debbi Correia]

> I deliver primarily PDFs, and I wouldn't use xrefs in this 
> way because they'd become working hyperlinks in the PDFs. Ugh! 

Actually they'd become BROKEN hyperlinks, since most likely the
referenced document isn't included in the doc set!

Deb Correia

RE: Variables vs Cross-references [WAS: Hiding Pages?]

[Combs, Richard]

Eric Dunn wrote:  

> The situation was this: hundreds of components, multiple ways 
> of writing their descriptions, abbreviations, and 
> specifications which led to an unmanageable mass of variables.
> 
> So, I turned to cross-references.
 
> What are the downsides? Well, so far nothing. But I have an 
> itch in the back of my skull concerning Xrefs and character 
> formatting that I just can't shake. Something as to whether 
> character formatting applied in the source (all character 
> tagging is done using catalogue formats common to source and 
> destination) is kept in the destination or not...
> 
> Anyone know what I should be worrying about?

Yeah, potentially char formats, but maybe not. IIRC, there are some
formatting characteristics that are preserved in xrefs and some that
aren't. I think the basic variants of a font (e.g., bold, italic) are
discarded, but significant changes (e.g., Symbol, superscript) are
preserved. I'm afraid I don't recall the details -- maybe someone else
does? 

I deliver primarily PDFs, and I wouldn't use xrefs in this way because
they'd become working hyperlinks in the PDFs. Ugh! 

If your deliverables are printed books, of course, this isn't an issue.
:-) 

Richard


--
Richard G. Combs
Senior Technical Writer
Polycom, Inc.
richardDOTcombs AT polycomDOTcom
303-223-5111
--
rgcombs AT gmailDOTcom
303-777-0436
--




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Variables vs Cross-references [WAS: Hiding Pages?]

[eric.d...@ca.transport.bombardier.com]

"Ridder, Fred"  wrote on 06/08/2006 11:57:39 AM:
> In a situation where only the name changes, I find that it is *much*
> more maintainable to use a variable for the product name because
> you only have to make a change in one place (the variable's value
> definition) when one of the names changes or when a new variant
> is added to the list.

Personally, I don't like conditional text. Usually it gets far too complex 
very quickly and you're hobbled by the limitation of OR logic for 
overlapping conditions.

But, are variables the right answer? Why not Xrefs instead?

Perhaps this idea isn't terribly Earth shattering, but it came to me in a 
flash and I've been using it successfully for some time now. The idea 
struck me as more of a 'DUH' kind of realisation when I implemented it, 
but after giving a FrameMaker class, I was amazed at how foreign the idea 
seemed to so many.

The situation was this: hundreds of components, multiple ways of writing 
their descriptions, abbreviations, and specifications which led to an 
unmanageable mass of variables.

So, I turned to cross-references.

A stand-alone document contains a three column table.
Column 1 - CB Number
Column 2 - CB Placard
Column 3 - Complete description

ex:
CB1 LIGHTINGCB1, LIGHTING

Three cross-reference formats are used:
1 - CBNumber
2 - CBPlacard
3 - CBPlacard (Num)

So, depending on the requirements I can include CB1, LIGHTING, or LIGHTING 
(CB1) in my documentation.

If the placard or information changes, I change the source document and 
that's it. A generate update of all books ensures the data is correct.

I've actually begun using the same approach for terms and equipment names. 
Any text that needs to maintain consistency is grouped with like terms in 
a file.

So three HUGE advantages IMO. First, no need to maintain a MIF snippet of 
variables or using a script/plug-in to import user variables only (because 
invariably, one or more of the system variables are defined differently 
for different sections/files). Second, instead of hundreds of variables, I 
have 3 Xref formats. Third, generating and updating is already a step in 
the publishing process. So, the step of importing variables is skipped and 
not there to be forgotten.

What are the downsides? Well, so far nothing. But I have an itch in the 
back of my skull concerning Xrefs and character formatting that I just 
can't shake. Something as to whether character formatting applied in the 
source (all character tagging is done using catalogue formats common to 
source and destination) is kept in the destination or not...

Anyone know what I should be worrying about?

Eric L. Dunn
Senior Technical Writer

___
 

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Merci. 
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RE: Hiding Pages?

[Grant Hogarth]

Likewise here, as well as text insets from Reference pages.

Variables = Names, short strings (ex: "Select this option to enable",
"xth", "For more information, refer to:", etc.)

Insets =  Table cells whose contents are identical, functionality that
appears repeated times (example we have a tab that appears for every
analysis; while I could make it a "general info" entry, the other tabs
in this dialog are discussed in detail for each individual analysis.
This is for HTML, not hardcopy, which would mean jumping back and forth.
With an insert, I can ensure that the same text appears for each
analysis. (Yes, I should probably re-architect this document, but that's
currently not an option.)

Conditions = We deliver a product that has various function levels
(Standard, Premium, Advanced). Each level subsumeds the entirety of the
previous level.  So I have tagged those features which aare in Premium
and Advanced with Premium, and those which are in Advanced are also
tagged with Advanced. Setting the condition removes the tagged item(s)
from view.

Grant

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Beck, Charles
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 7:02 AM
To: Ridder, Fred; Anne Robotti; Schoen, Brady
Cc: framers@frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Hiding Pages?

Actually, where I have worked in the past, we used a combination of both
variables *and* conditional text for multiple versions of a product. 

FWIW.
Chuck Beck
 

-Original Message-
Subject: RE: Hiding Pages?

In a situation where only the name changes, I find that it is *much*
more maintainable to use a variable for the product name because you
only have to make a change in one place (the variable's value
definition) when one of the names changes or when a new variant is added
to the list. If you use conditional text for product names, you have to
use Find/Change to locate and update every instance of any name that
changes and you have to add a new condition and explicitly add new
conditionalized content in each appropriate location when a new product
name is added to the list. It's *much* more time consuming and *much*
more prone to errors (particularly considering the shortcomings of
FrameMaker's Find/Change command).

My opinions only; I don't speak for Intel.
Fred Ridder (fred dot ridder at intel dot com) Intel Parsippany, NJ
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Colour question

[ETudsbery]

I'm trying to create some colours for a FrameMaker template which
correspond to our corporate style guide and I'm finding it rather
difficult. One of our corporate colours is "Pantone 2627" which is a dark
violet. When I select Pantone 2627 in the Colour Definitions dialog box, it
does indeed look violet on the screen, but the CMYK values for Pantone 2627
(83C, 100M, 0Y, 23K) correspond to a blue -- and this is the colour I get
when I generate a PDF or print to a colour printer. Any ideas what I'm
doing wrong?

Thanks for any help.

Edwin Tudsbery
CPA Software Solutions



The information in this message is confidential and may be legally
privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee; access to this
email by anyone else is unauthorised.

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have received it in error, and to destroy the received copy; and (2)
any disclosure or distribution of this message, as well as any action
taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on its content, is prohibited
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Re: Variables vs Cross-references vs Text Insets [WAS: Hiding Pages?]

[John Posada]

I may have missed something. I assumed we WERE talking about about
text inserts, but done by importing by referencing them rather than
copying them in.

Oh, well...back to playing with my new French Coffee Press and my
freshly ground French Roast.

--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> The text content of a cross-reference is limited by what you can
> build 
> using the Xref building blocks. It may be possible to have a Xref


John Posada
Senior Technical Writer

"So long and thanks for all the fish."
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Variables vs Cross-references vs Text Insets [WAS: Hiding Pages?]

[John Posada]

I may have missed something. I assumed we WERE talking about about
text inserts, but done by importing by referencing them rather than
copying them in.

Oh, well...back to playing with my new French Coffee Press and my
freshly ground French Roast.

--- eric.dunn at ca.transport.bombardier.com wrote:

> The text content of a cross-reference is limited by what you can
> build 
> using the Xref building blocks. It may be possible to have a Xref


John Posada
Senior Technical Writer

"So long and thanks for all the fish."

Re: Variables vs Cross-references vs Text Insets [WAS: HidingPages?]

[nancy carpenter]

Okay, open mouth and insert foot.  I know they are different, but I made a
sloppy jump in logic and communication.  Still have not grown out of that
habit. : ) I was thinking that a cross reference might solve a problem that
I have with text insets.  I will open that in another thread.

Nancy Carpenter
Lead Technical Writer
GENCO Distribution System
100 Papercraft Park
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15238


   
  "Fred Ridder"
  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  com> cc: 
   Subject:  Re: Variables vs 
Cross-references vs Text Insets [WAS: HidingPages?]
  06/09/2006 11:23 
  AM   
   
   




Umm, I think you're comingling two different things. Text insets
(content inserted by reference) are quite different than
cross-references. Eric was talking about cross-references, but
in your reply you seem to be talking about text insets although
you use both terms.

Text insets are used to import the content of a named text flow,
usually in a separate, external file. There is no limit to the size of
text insets; they can be as small as a single word, if that is all that
is contained in the referenced flow (although in this case you
have to remember to choose the Insert as Plain Text option) or
can be as large as hundreds of pages.

Cross-references generate a text string in the local document
based on the location of a cross-reference marker that exists in
some FrameMaker document (either the current file or a separate
one). The content of the text string can br defined in the cross-
reference format, and can inlcude literal text as well as picking
up various properties rlated to the marker, such as the page
number of the page where it's located, all or part of any
auto-numbering that is applied to the paragraph containing the
marker, or the text of the paragraph itself. There is no possibility
for a cross-reference to pick up more than a single paragraph's
contents (the paragraph where the marker is located) although
there is no real limit on how big that single paragraph can be.

Fred Ridder
Intel
Parsippany, NJ


>From: nancy carpenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: framers@frameusers.com
>Subject: Re: Variables vs Cross-references vs Text Insets [WAS:
>HidingPages?]
>Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2006 10:39:11 -0400
>
>This might work better than text insets.  I use text insets for
definitions
>of fields on screens and for introductory paragraphs that are used in more
>than one chapter.  Is there a limit to how much text you can insert with a
>cross reference?  My introductions often are two or three paragraphs.
>
>Nancy Carpenter
>Lead Technical Writer
>GENCO Distribution System
>100 Papercraft Park
>Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15238
>
>
>|-+--->
>| |   [EMAIL PROTECTED]   |
>| |   Sent by:|
>| |   [EMAIL PROTECTED]|
>| |   meusers.com |
>| |   |
>| |   |
>| |   06/09/2006 09:58 AM |
>| |   |
>|-+--->
>
>
>--|

>   |

>   |
>   |   To:   "Ridder, Fred" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

>   |
>   |   cc:   framers@frameusers.com

>   |
>   |   Subject:  Variables vs Cross-references [WAS: Hiding Pages?]

>   |
>
>
>--|

>
>
>
>
>"Ridder, Fred" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 06/08/2006 11:57:39 AM:
> > In a situation where only the name changes, I find that it is *much*
> > more maintainable to use a variable for the product name because
> > you only have to make a change in one place (the variable's value
> > definition) when one of the names changes or when a new variant
> > is added to the list.
>
>Personally, I don't like conditional text. Usually it gets far too complex
>very quickly and you're hobbled by the limitation of OR logic for
>overlapping conditions.
>
>But, are variables the right answer? Why not Xrefs instead?
>
>Perhaps this idea isn't terribly Earth shattering, but it came to me

Re: Importing text insets

[eric . dunn]

Sounds like a job for FrameScript...

Eric L. Dunn
Senior Technical Writer

Doug <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 06/09/2006 12:03:18 PM:

> Is there a way import text insets by dragging and dropping them into
> an open Frame document?  It's irritating to have to jump through the
> menu hoops when you have a large number of files to import.

> --Doug



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Re: Variables vs Cross-references vs Text Insets [WAS: Hiding Pages?]

[eric . dunn]

The text content of a cross-reference is limited by what you can build 
using the Xref building blocks. It may be possible to have a Xref that 
produces multiple paragraphs (Using \R in the def?) but I doubt it would 
be workable.

But to combine multiple paragraphs, you need to have information that's 
consistently tagged and organised. Then, it's only really workable to 
create strings as I have done.

For multiple paras, I'd stick to insets.

Eric L. Dunn
Senior Technical Writer

[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote on 06/09/2006 10:41:06 AM:

> No...I've imported documents that were hundreds of pages long into
> another document.

> Of course, everything has a limit...maybe a million pages might be a
> problem?

> > than one chapter.  Is there a limit to how much text you can insert
> > with a cross reference?  My introductions often are two or three
> > paragraphs.

> 
> John Posada
> Senior Technical Writer

> "So long and thanks for all the fish."
> ___


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This e-mail communication (and any attachment/s) may contain confidential 
or privileged information and is intended only for the individual(s) or 
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copy, use or disclose the contents of this communication to others. Please 
notify the sender that you have received this e-mail in error by reply 
e-mail, and delete the e-mail subsequently. Please note that in order to 
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Ce message (ainsi que le(s) fichier/s), transmis par courriel, peut 
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les présentes avisée qu?il est strictement interdit de le diffuser, le 
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Re: Things dropping out when printed

[Art Campbell]

See if the dpi setting you're using is 600 dpi, and if it is, set it
to a lower setting.

There was a bug that afflicted this particular combo of settings, went
away for a while, and
has manifested itself (at least on my systems) following an Acrobat 7
automatic upgrade.

The other thing to try is to print to a PS file and use the full
version of Acrobat to distill it.

Art

On 5/31/06, Robert Kern <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I am running Frame 7.2 on XP. After installing 3 FramePlugins from
Silicon Graphics (two of which I've used for years), when I go to print
to either my PS laser printer or to PDF, massive amounts of content drop
out of the output. I rebooted to clear any memory leaks, but it didn't
fix the problem. Uninstalling the plugins also didn't help, nor did
reinstalling Frame 7.2. I tried with an older version of Frame 7.1 that
I still have installed and got the same problem.  So, I'm guessing that
this is a PS driver issue and am presently downloading PS 3 winsteng
1.0.6 to reinstall it.

Has anybody had this happen to them?  If so, was reinstalling PS printer
driver the solution?
What might I have done to corrupt things?

-bob
__
Robert Kern
President, TIPS Technical Publishing, Inc.
108 E. Main Street, Suite 4
Carrboro, NC  27510
www.technicalpublishing.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
919-933-2629 phone
919-338-2899 fax




--
Art Campbell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent
  and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson
No disclaimers apply.
DoD 358
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Re: Importing text insets

[John Posada]

> Is there a way import text insets by dragging and dropping them
> into an open Frame document?  It's irritating to have to jump
> through the menu hoops when you have a large number of files to
> import.

Not that I'm aware of. If there was, it WOULD save me loads of time.
FM has never been up to speed in drag and drop capabilities.



John Posada
Senior Technical Writer

"So long and thanks for all the fish."
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Importing text insets

[John Posada]

> Is there a way import text insets by dragging and dropping them
> into an open Frame document?  It's irritating to have to jump
> through the menu hoops when you have a large number of files to
> import.

Not that I'm aware of. If there was, it WOULD save me loads of time.
FM has never been up to speed in drag and drop capabilities.



John Posada
Senior Technical Writer

"So long and thanks for all the fish."

Importing text insets

[Doug]

Is there a way import text insets by dragging and dropping them into
an open Frame document?  It's irritating to have to jump through the
menu hoops when you have a large number of files to import.

--Doug
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Hiding Pages?

[Beck, Charles]

Actually, where I have worked in the past, we used a combination of both
variables *and* conditional text for multiple versions of a product. 

FWIW.
Chuck Beck


-Original Message-
Subject: RE: Hiding Pages?

In a situation where only the name changes, I find that it is *much*
more maintainable to use a variable for the product name because you
only have to make a change in one place (the variable's value
definition) when one of the names changes or when a new variant is added
to the list. If you use conditional text for product names, you have to
use Find/Change to locate and update every instance of any name that
changes and you have to add a new condition and explicitly add new
conditionalized content in each appropriate location when a new product
name is added to the list. It's *much* more time consuming and *much*
more prone to errors (particularly considering the shortcomings of
FrameMaker's Find/Change command).

My opinions only; I don't speak for Intel.
Fred Ridder (fred dot ridder at intel dot com) Intel Parsippany, NJ

Hiding Pages?

[ROBIN POTTS]

Have you tried inserting the page elements in an anchored frame and then
applying the conditional text to the anchored frame tag? This may
eliminate the extra pages. 

Robin Potts
Technical Writer
ADTRAN EN Tech Pubs 
robin.potts at adtran.com
963-6131



Message: 11
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 11:01:16 -0400 
From: "Schoen, Brady" 
Subject: Hiding Pages?
To: "'framers at frameusers.com'" 
Message-ID: <81C7B67B10ED954385FE84FF2BE58B72207C73 at agbelexg01>
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset="iso-8859-1"

I have a question for everyone. I work for a company that builds 4
pieces of
equipment that are all the same but are branded differently. The only
difference in the manuals for the different brands of equipment is the 2
pages showing decal placement. What I would like to do is to make one
Book
file for this equipment (so I don't have 4 different books to update
everytime a change is made), and just change out the decal pages. Is it
possible to put all the decal pages for all the brands consecutively in
a
chapter in a book and then just "Hide" the decal pages that I don't want
shown when it is time to print so I can keep all my page numbering and
formating intact?

Anyone have any ideas on this? We are using Adobe Framemaker 6.0.

Thanks,
Brady

RE: Framemaker and Translation

[Diane Gaskill]

Wim,

I cannot imagine why you think translation and the tools used to do it
should not be discussed here.  I have been answering questions about
localzation on this list for 14 years.  So many questions in fact, that I
eventually compiled the answers to them into a small book, and at the
request of the former listowner (Brad), made a presentation called
Localization and Framemaker at the 2000 Frame Users conference.  At least
500 people have either requested the book or downloaded it from the website.

Regarding the tools (and yes, there are more than just Trados,) the more a
writer knows about what happens to the files he or she creates, the better
job they can do to prepare them for translation.  While I would certainly
agree that the primary topic on this list is FM, I would not think that a
related topic to its use is OT on this list.

Diane

==

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Wim Hooghwinkel (Scriptware)
Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 2:02 AM
To: mathieu jacquet; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; framers@frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Framemaker and Translation


What is this, a Trados exposure? I think we should not discuss translation
tools (there are other lists). I have been working in the localization for
over 12 years now and it always comes down to the same: if the source files
are not set up properly, meaning 'designed' and formatted with
internationalization in mind, translation does not work out as expected and
can cost a ot of money and effort - whatever tool or translation company you
use.

The other way round the same: once you have set up your documentation
properly, translation is no pain at all, whatever tool used. Complex
translation instruction kits as mentioned before won't be neccessary.

My advise: keep it simple, standardize, re-use both content and formatting
wherever possible.


Met vriendelijke groet / kind regards,

Wim Hooghwinkel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
DTP and XML Management

-Original Message-
From: mathieu jacquet [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 11:53 PM
To: Wim Hooghwinkel (Scriptware); [EMAIL PROTECTED];
framers@frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Framemaker and Translation


To be more precise, Trados (Trados 6.0 at least) can deal with the following
formats :

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Framemaker and Translation

[Diane Gaskill]

Wim,

I cannot imagine why you think translation and the tools used to do it
should not be discussed here.  I have been answering questions about
localzation on this list for 14 years.  So many questions in fact, that I
eventually compiled the answers to them into a small book, and at the
request of the former listowner (Brad), made a presentation called
Localization and Framemaker at the 2000 Frame Users conference.  At least
500 people have either requested the book or downloaded it from the website.

Regarding the tools (and yes, there are more than just Trados,) the more a
writer knows about what happens to the files he or she creates, the better
job they can do to prepare them for translation.  While I would certainly
agree that the primary topic on this list is FM, I would not think that a
related topic to its use is OT on this list.

Diane

==

-Original Message-
From: framers-bounces+dgcaller=earthlink@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces+dgcaller=earthlink.net at lists.frameusers.com]On
Behalf Of Wim Hooghwinkel (Scriptware)
Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 2:02 AM
To: mathieu jacquet; lelks at exstream.com; framers at frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Framemaker and Translation


What is this, a Trados exposure? I think we should not discuss translation
tools (there are other lists). I have been working in the localization for
over 12 years now and it always comes down to the same: if the source files
are not set up properly, meaning 'designed' and formatted with
internationalization in mind, translation does not work out as expected and
can cost a ot of money and effort - whatever tool or translation company you
use.

The other way round the same: once you have set up your documentation
properly, translation is no pain at all, whatever tool used. Complex
translation instruction kits as mentioned before won't be neccessary.

My advise: keep it simple, standardize, re-use both content and formatting
wherever possible.


Met vriendelijke groet / kind regards,

Wim Hooghwinkel wimh at scriptware.nl
DTP and XML Management

-Original Message-
From: mathieu jacquet [mailto:bobi...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 11:53 PM
To: Wim Hooghwinkel (Scriptware); lelks at exstream.com;
framers at frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Framemaker and Translation


To be more precise, Trados (Trados 6.0 at least) can deal with the following
formats :

Re: Variables vs Cross-references vs Text Insets [WAS: Hiding Pages?]

[John Posada]

No...I've imported documents that were hundreds of pages long into
another document.

Of course, everything has a limit...maybe a million pages might be a
problem?

> than one chapter.  Is there a limit to how much text you can insert
> with a cross reference?  My introductions often are two or three
> paragraphs.


John Posada
Senior Technical Writer

"So long and thanks for all the fish."
___


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Variables vs Cross-references vs Text Insets [WAS: Hiding Pages?]

[John Posada]

No...I've imported documents that were hundreds of pages long into
another document.

Of course, everything has a limit...maybe a million pages might be a
problem?

> than one chapter.  Is there a limit to how much text you can insert
> with a cross reference?  My introductions often are two or three
> paragraphs.


John Posada
Senior Technical Writer

"So long and thanks for all the fish."

PageLabeler Plugin

[Rick Quatro]

Hi Lin,

PageLabeler works fine with 7.2. Here are the most common causes of 
problems:

1) In Acrobat, choose Edit > Preferences and select the Page Display 
category. Make sure that Use logical page numbers is checked.

2) If you print to PS, then distill, make sure you are using the Adobe PDF 
(Acrobat 6 and higher) or the Acrobat Distiller (Acrobat 5 and below) 
printer.

3) Make sure you include the last component in the book when you print. This 
component is where the page label information is stored.

If you still have problems, please let me know. Thanks.

Rick

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing
585-659-8267
www.frameexpert.com


Anyone use Rick Quatro's PageLabeler Plugin with Frame 7.2? Is it
compatible?

I'm trying to get page number prefixes on my Cover and Copyright pages
(a text prefix), but I can't seem to get it to work. Yes, I did RTM, but
either I'm not following directions properly or something else is wrong.

This is more a curiosity than a serious issue, but I thought I'd ask
anyway
Thanks!
-Lin

Re: Variables vs Cross-references vs Text Insets [WAS: Hiding Pages?]

[nancy carpenter]

This might work better than text insets.  I use text insets for definitions
of fields on screens and for introductory paragraphs that are used in more
than one chapter.  Is there a limit to how much text you can insert with a
cross reference?  My introductions often are two or three paragraphs.

Nancy Carpenter
Lead Technical Writer
GENCO Distribution System
100 Papercraft Park
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15238


|-+--->
| |   [EMAIL PROTECTED]   |
| |   Sent by:|
| |   [EMAIL PROTECTED]|
| |   meusers.com |
| |   |
| |   |
| |   06/09/2006 09:58 AM |
| |   |
|-+--->
  
>--|
  | 
 |
  |   To:   "Ridder, Fred" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
 |
  |   cc:   framers@frameusers.com  
 |
  |   Subject:  Variables vs Cross-references [WAS: Hiding Pages?]  
 |
  
>--|




"Ridder, Fred" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 06/08/2006 11:57:39 AM:
> In a situation where only the name changes, I find that it is *much*
> more maintainable to use a variable for the product name because
> you only have to make a change in one place (the variable's value
> definition) when one of the names changes or when a new variant
> is added to the list.

Personally, I don't like conditional text. Usually it gets far too complex
very quickly and you're hobbled by the limitation of OR logic for
overlapping conditions.

But, are variables the right answer? Why not Xrefs instead?

Perhaps this idea isn't terribly Earth shattering, but it came to me in a
flash and I've been using it successfully for some time now. The idea
struck me as more of a 'DUH' kind of realisation when I implemented it,
but after giving a FrameMaker class, I was amazed at how foreign the idea
seemed to so many.

The situation was this: hundreds of components, multiple ways of writing
their descriptions, abbreviations, and specifications which led to an
unmanageable mass of variables.

So, I turned to cross-references.

A stand-alone document contains a three column table.
Column 1 - CB Number
Column 2 - CB Placard
Column 3 - Complete description

ex:
CB1 LIGHTINGCB1, LIGHTING

Three cross-reference formats are used:
1 - CBNumber
2 - CBPlacard
3 - CBPlacard (Num)

So, depending on the requirements I can include CB1, LIGHTING, or LIGHTING
(CB1) in my documentation.

If the placard or information changes, I change the source document and
that's it. A generate update of all books ensures the data is correct.

I've actually begun using the same approach for terms and equipment names.
Any text that needs to maintain consistency is grouped with like terms in
a file.

So three HUGE advantages IMO. First, no need to maintain a MIF snippet of
variables or using a script/plug-in to import user variables only (because
invariably, one or more of the system variables are defined differently
for different sections/files). Second, instead of hundreds of variables, I
have 3 Xref formats. Third, generating and updating is already a step in
the publishing process. So, the step of importing variables is skipped and
not there to be forgotten.

What are the downsides? Well, so far nothing. But I have an itch in the
back of my skull concerning Xrefs and character formatting that I just
can't shake. Something as to whether character formatting applied in the
source (all character tagging is done using catalogue formats common to
source and destination) is kept in the destination or not...

Anyone know what I should be worrying about?

Eric L. Dunn
Senior Technical Writer

___


This e-mail communication (and any attachment/s) may contain confidential
or privileged information and is intended only for the individual(s) or
entity named above and to others who have been specifically authorized to
receive it. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not read,
copy, use or disclose the contents of this communication to others. Please
notify the sender that you have received this e-mail in error by reply
e-mail, and delete the e-mail subsequently. Please note that in order to
protect the security of our information sys

RE: PageLabeler Plugin

[Hales-Crotchett, Nicole]

 Yep, my error in assumption was pointed out to me. Blame it on
pre-coffee state of mind!


Thanks,
Nicole

-Original Message-
From: John Posada [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 7:05 AM
To: Hales-Crotchett, Nicole; Framers (E-mail)
Subject: RE: PageLabeler Plugin

My group at EMC

>  
> Not to pick nits, but no, we don't all use it. In the office, I can't 
> use plugins at all, so I don't use any.
> 
> 
> Yes, we all do in this group.
> 
> 


John Posada
Senior Technical Writer

"So long and thanks for all the fish."

___


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PageLabeler Plugin

[Hales-Crotchett, Nicole]

 Yep, my error in assumption was pointed out to me. Blame it on
pre-coffee state of mind!


Thanks,
Nicole

-Original Message-
From: John Posada [mailto:jposad...@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 7:05 AM
To: Hales-Crotchett, Nicole; Framers (E-mail)
Subject: RE: PageLabeler Plugin

My group at EMC

>  
> Not to pick nits, but no, we don't all use it. In the office, I can't 
> use plugins at all, so I don't use any.
> 
> 
> Yes, we all do in this group.
> 
> 


John Posada
Senior Technical Writer

"So long and thanks for all the fish."

RE: PageLabeler Plugin

[John Posada]

My group at EMC

>  
> Not to pick nits, but no, we don't all use it. In 
> the office, I can't use plugins at all, so I don't use any.
> 
> 
> Yes, we all do in this group.
> 
> 


John Posada
Senior Technical Writer

"So long and thanks for all the fish."
___


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PageLabeler Plugin

[John Posada]

My group at EMC

>  
> Not to pick nits, but no, we don't all use it. In 
> the office, I can't use plugins at all, so I don't use any.
> 
> 
> Yes, we all do in this group.
> 
> 


John Posada
Senior Technical Writer

"So long and thanks for all the fish."

Variables vs Cross-references [WAS: Hiding Pages?]

[eric . dunn]

"Ridder, Fred" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on 06/08/2006 11:57:39 AM:
> In a situation where only the name changes, I find that it is *much*
> more maintainable to use a variable for the product name because
> you only have to make a change in one place (the variable's value
> definition) when one of the names changes or when a new variant
> is added to the list.

Personally, I don't like conditional text. Usually it gets far too complex 
very quickly and you're hobbled by the limitation of OR logic for 
overlapping conditions.

But, are variables the right answer? Why not Xrefs instead?

Perhaps this idea isn't terribly Earth shattering, but it came to me in a 
flash and I've been using it successfully for some time now. The idea 
struck me as more of a 'DUH' kind of realisation when I implemented it, 
but after giving a FrameMaker class, I was amazed at how foreign the idea 
seemed to so many.

The situation was this: hundreds of components, multiple ways of writing 
their descriptions, abbreviations, and specifications which led to an 
unmanageable mass of variables.

So, I turned to cross-references.

A stand-alone document contains a three column table.
Column 1 - CB Number
Column 2 - CB Placard
Column 3 - Complete description

ex:
CB1 LIGHTINGCB1, LIGHTING

Three cross-reference formats are used:
1 - CBNumber
2 - CBPlacard
3 - CBPlacard (Num)

So, depending on the requirements I can include CB1, LIGHTING, or LIGHTING 
(CB1) in my documentation.

If the placard or information changes, I change the source document and 
that's it. A generate update of all books ensures the data is correct.

I've actually begun using the same approach for terms and equipment names. 
Any text that needs to maintain consistency is grouped with like terms in 
a file.

So three HUGE advantages IMO. First, no need to maintain a MIF snippet of 
variables or using a script/plug-in to import user variables only (because 
invariably, one or more of the system variables are defined differently 
for different sections/files). Second, instead of hundreds of variables, I 
have 3 Xref formats. Third, generating and updating is already a step in 
the publishing process. So, the step of importing variables is skipped and 
not there to be forgotten.

What are the downsides? Well, so far nothing. But I have an itch in the 
back of my skull concerning Xrefs and character formatting that I just 
can't shake. Something as to whether character formatting applied in the 
source (all character tagging is done using catalogue formats common to 
source and destination) is kept in the destination or not...

Anyone know what I should be worrying about?

Eric L. Dunn
Senior Technical Writer

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Re: Hiding Pages?

[ROBIN POTTS]

Have you tried inserting the page elements in an anchored frame and then
applying the conditional text to the anchored frame tag? This may
eliminate the extra pages. 

Robin Potts
Technical Writer
ADTRAN EN Tech Pubs 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
963-6131



Message: 11
Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2006 11:01:16 -0400 
From: "Schoen, Brady" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Hiding Pages?
To: "'framers@frameusers.com'" 
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset="iso-8859-1"

I have a question for everyone. I work for a company that builds 4
pieces of
equipment that are all the same but are branded differently. The only
difference in the manuals for the different brands of equipment is the 2
pages showing decal placement. What I would like to do is to make one
Book
file for this equipment (so I don't have 4 different books to update
everytime a change is made), and just change out the decal pages. Is it
possible to put all the decal pages for all the brands consecutively in
a
chapter in a book and then just "Hide" the decal pages that I don't want
shown when it is time to print so I can keep all my page numbering and
formating intact?

Anyone have any ideas on this? We are using Adobe Framemaker 6.0.

Thanks,
Brady

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RE: PageLabeler Plugin

[Hales-Crotchett, Nicole]

 
Not to pick nits, but no, we don't all use it. In the office, I can't
use plugins at all, so I don't use any.

-Nicole


-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
.com] On Behalf Of John Posada
Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 2:55 PM
To: Lin Surasky; Framers (E-mail)
Subject: Re: PageLabeler Plugin

Yes, we all do in this group.


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PageLabeler Plugin

[Hales-Crotchett, Nicole]

Not to pick nits, but no, we don't all use it. In the office, I can't
use plugins at all, so I don't use any.

-Nicole


-Original Message-
From:
framers-bounces+nicole.hales-crotchett=lmco.com at lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces+nicole.hales-crotchett=lmco.com at lists.frameusers
.com] On Behalf Of John Posada
Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 2:55 PM
To: Lin Surasky; Framers (E-mail)
Subject: Re: PageLabeler Plugin

Yes, we all do in this group.

RE: Hiding Pages?

[Beck, Charles]

Actually, where I have worked in the past, we used a combination of both
variables *and* conditional text for multiple versions of a product. 

FWIW.
Chuck Beck
 

-Original Message-
Subject: RE: Hiding Pages?

In a situation where only the name changes, I find that it is *much*
more maintainable to use a variable for the product name because you
only have to make a change in one place (the variable's value
definition) when one of the names changes or when a new variant is added
to the list. If you use conditional text for product names, you have to
use Find/Change to locate and update every instance of any name that
changes and you have to add a new condition and explicitly add new
conditionalized content in each appropriate location when a new product
name is added to the list. It's *much* more time consuming and *much*
more prone to errors (particularly considering the shortcomings of
FrameMaker's Find/Change command).

My opinions only; I don't speak for Intel.
Fred Ridder (fred dot ridder at intel dot com) Intel Parsippany, NJ
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Re: PageLabeler Plugin

[Rick Quatro]

Hi Lin,

PageLabeler works fine with 7.2. Here are the most common causes of 
problems:


1) In Acrobat, choose Edit > Preferences and select the Page Display 
category. Make sure that Use logical page numbers is checked.


2) If you print to PS, then distill, make sure you are using the Adobe PDF 
(Acrobat 6 and higher) or the Acrobat Distiller (Acrobat 5 and below) 
printer.


3) Make sure you include the last component in the book when you print. This 
component is where the page label information is stored.


If you still have problems, please let me know. Thanks.

Rick

Rick Quatro
Carmen Publishing
585-659-8267
www.frameexpert.com


Anyone use Rick Quatro's PageLabeler Plugin with Frame 7.2? Is it
compatible?

I'm trying to get page number prefixes on my Cover and Copyright pages
(a text prefix), but I can't seem to get it to work. Yes, I did RTM, but
either I'm not following directions properly or something else is wrong.

This is more a curiosity than a serious issue, but I thought I'd ask
anyway
Thanks!
-Lin

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RE: Hiding Pages?

[Steve Rickaby]

At 14:39 -0400 8/6/06, Schoen, Brady wrote:

>What I have is a "Parts Drawing" on the left, and the "Parts Listing" on the
>right for each brand. The entire page is specific to each brand, not just a
>word or the drawing, the entire page. What I did was put all 8 decal pages
>(1 Drawing page and 1 parts listing page for each brand x 4
>brands)consecutively in the book. I then highlighted everything on the pages
>and tagged everything I wanted shown for each brand as a different tag. What
>happens is when I hide 3 tags and show the 1 I want in the book, it leaves a
>blank page for all the other brands decal pages that are now hidden. If I
>delete the extra pages, I can't get it to show the other three tagged items
>again. Any ideas?

Brady - all the ideas presented here already would handle some or all of your 
issues if used correctly. However, from your description above, I wonder 
whether the variant information is not - or can be made not - part of the flow 
of the remainder of the document(s), *and* that entires page's contents are 
variant? If this is the case, possibly your simplest approach to conditional 
tags, which should get round the blank page issue you mention, is to place all 
the variant page content within an anchored frame, and conditionalize that. 
Turing off the tag will then conceal the entire frame's contents - rather than 
conditionalizing it item by item.

If you try this, be aware that FrameMaker allows you to conditionalize *both* 
an anchored frame [i.e. its anchor] *and* the paragraph/text in which it lies. 
The results of not displaying the tagged material will differ: in one case only 
the frame will disappear, in the other its enclosing text/paragraph will also 
disappear. You probably want to tag the paragraph that encloses the anchored 
frame.
-- 
Steve
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