RE: extremely slow PNG loading

[Davis, David]

I have seen this behaviour before,
I usually blamed it either on an anti-virus scanner that was scanning each PNG 
as it was opened and/or some shenanigans on a network switch.


Message: 3
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 19:04:51 -0400
From: Stuart Rogers 
To: "'framers@lists.frameusers.com'" 
Subject: extremely slow PNG loading
Message-ID: <55149093.5080...@phoenix-geophysics.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"

Hi Framers,

FM 10 (TCS 3.5), Win 7 64-bit, 16 GB RAM, i7 CPU

I have a two-page file that imports by reference 24 different small PNG files, 
many of them repeated several times, for a total of 75 images.
The PNG files are each about 900 bytes in size, all located in a subfolder of 
the folder containing the file. When I open this document, FM takes about 5 
seconds to display each graphic (5-6 minutes to open the entire file). All 
files are on a local 180 GB SSD.

I have converted all the PNG files to TIF and reimported into a copy of the 
file. The entire document opens in about 3 seconds.

Has anyone else noticed this problem with PNG? That format has become my 
standard output for most purposes, but I'll have to change that if there isn't 
a fix in FM.

Thanks,

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RE:How to Choose the Right Image File Format for Print

[Davis, David]

On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 3:52 PM, Carol J. Elkins 
wrote:

> Here is a really good article (I think) about the various graphic file
> formats and when to use and not use them.
> http://www.creativepro.com/article/how-to-choose-the-
> right-image-file-format-for-print
> I've read dozens of similar articles and this one stands out for its
> clarity.


It does seem a good article, although I don't agree with it when it opines that 
PNG graphics "aren't suitable for print" because they "have no support for 
CMYK":
If you are capturing a screen-shot, then that is an RGB entity. PNG is a 
perfect format for that, and it supports tagging the image as 'sRGB 
colourspace'.
If you are printing on paper, then the conversion to CMYK from that sRGB 
colourspace is best done by the output device (i.e. the printer driver).
The idea that you will get better results if you convert the screenshot to a 
CMYK colourspace in advance and store it in your document in a TIFF is 
wrongheaded (because at that point, you have no idea what your output device 
might be).
Best to leave it 'device-independent' in an sRGB PNG.

David

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User's manual vs. User manual

[Davis, David]

Well what if you have more than one user? Then it would have to be "Users' 
Manual" :)

It's easier to avoid that fuss and just called it "User Manual".

In German they get around this kind of thing by making compound nouns, so you'd 
have the equivalent of "Usermanual"  (Benutzerhandbuch...?), but English 
prefers to leave a space.

_

David


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RE: Accidental Change All (am I alone?)

[Davis, David]

Stephen,
This has happened to me a couple of times too. Horrible!! Accidentally setting 
off a 'find and replace' globally for something (usually changing a few letters 
to a blank string), simply because the focus was accidentally on that dialog 
and I triggered it before I realised what was happening.
There's no undo from within Frame either, I just had to revert to earlier 
versions of your files :(

David

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2015 18:07:33 +
From: Stephen O'Brien 
To: "Frame Users (framers@lists.frameusers.com)"

Subject: Accidental Change All (am I alone?)
Message-ID:



Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hi,

We have recently  had 2 incidents where the Change All operation was launched 
accidently - the dialog box is open and has the focus and the writer 
accidently, or in another goal, uses the ALT-A key combination. Change All is 
launched - no permission is asked and no Cancel or Undo is available. If 
working in a book, the changes are book wide! Can be catastrophic, believe me.

Have you experienced this? Do you know of any solutions?




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RE: Did I miss the FM12.0.4 Update Announcement?

[Davis, David]

If people have a problem with a specific bug, I really would recommend logging 
it in the Adobe bug tracker.
When I logged my CMYK issue, there was already one other bug report in there 
for the same thing, and I did get a fix within about 3 months,
which is a pretty good turnaround for a behemoth like FrameMaker!
The more people log a bug. the higher a priority it will get with their dev 
team.

David

From: Denis Daly [d.d...@icpnewtech.com]
Sent: 27 February 2015 08:56
To: Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net); Davis, David; 
framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Did I miss the FM12.0.4 Update Announcement?

Please keep us informed of your experiences with the CMYK issue Syed.

I (along with many others) was hoping this latest update would have solved the 
problem.

Denis

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RE: CMYK bug fixed? RE: Did I miss the FM12.0.4 Update Announcement?

[Davis, David]

Interesting, Craig!
I had reported the CMYK thing on the Adobe bug base, and I got a mail from them 
saying the issue would be fixed in the next update (12.0.4) and indeed my PDFs 
do generate OK again now.
Looks like there was more than one layers of broken-ness in this area and the 
one clobbering you was different to mine!

David

*** Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail
From: Craig Ede [mailto:craig...@hotmail.com]
Sent: 25 February 2015 20:44
To: Davis, David; framers
Subject: CMYK bug fixed? RE: Did I miss the FM12.0.4 Update Announcement?

We, too, have been using 12.0.4 since release. But, unfortunately, the CMYK 
still bites us. Adobe is looking at our files to figure out what is up. Falling 
back to FM 11 for now for the CMYK stuff.

Craig


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RE: Did I miss the FM12.0.4 Update Announcement?

[Davis, David]

As I noted on the Adobe Forums, I was personally told that 12.0.4 fixed this 
bug by the developer who was handling by bug report,
and it does indeed seem to,
but this is not mentioned in the release note.
This suggests that it was such an egregious bug that Adobe decided not to 
acknowledge that it ever existed ;)

_

David

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RE: Did I miss the FM12.0.4 Update Announcement?

[Davis, David]

Alison,
I've been using Frame 12.0.4 from the day it came out,
as it fixed the "Save as CMYK PDF" bug, which was clobbering my workflow.
Have still gotten crashes with 12.0.4 but twas ever thus... I just send the 
crash log to fmer...@adobe.com and keep smiling.
David

Message: 14
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2015 22:57:42 +
From: "Craig, Alison" 
To: "framers@lists.frameusers.com" 
Subject: Did I miss the FM12.0.4 Update Announcement?
Message-ID:
<00492f332ad5c24f91090267e5fc4fd88af97...@peaexmbx02.analogic.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi:

I was just looking at the Adobe site and came across a January 30, 2015 
announcement for Frame update 12.0.4. Did I miss it when the List was notified 
- or was the List notified?

So what I want to know is - has anyone started using this update yet? Is it 
stable?

Alison

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Re: FM12: PDF file size exploding

[Davis, David]

Lin,
As far as I recall, modern versions of Adobe Reader autogenerate the PDF 
bookmark pane and thumbnails on the fly if you ask them to,
so if megabytes are really that tight for you, you could probably ditch them 
anyway?

David


Message: 2
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 14:16:20 -0500
From: Lin Sims 
To: David Boss 
Cc: Frame Users 
Subject: Re: FM12: PDF file size exploding
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Thanks for the tip. I tried removing everything but the metadata (which was 
only the doc title), but it only trimmed about 2Mb off and took the bookmarks 
with it.

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RE: framers Digest, Vol 111, Issue 20

[Davis, David]

Denis,
I suffer this too (and have many times over the years). The graphics in my case 
are on a network drive,
But I suspect that the corporate anti-virus scanner that is installed on my 
machine exacerbates the problem.
It can be a real productivity killer.
Unfortunately the IT departments seldom want to let you disable the anti-virus 
as you might get a virus and that could cost the company $$$ in lost 
productivity. :)

David


Message: 4
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2015 09:43:16 +
From: Denis Daly 
To: "framers@lists.frameusers.com" 
Subject: Scrolling pages issue
Message-ID:



Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Good morning,

I wonder if anyone else is experience a similar issue?

I am running Framemaker 12 on a Windows 7 laptop:  Intel Core i3-3110m CPU @ 
2.4GHz with 8GB RAM.

Whenever I scroll using the vertical scroll-bar, I am constantly frustrated at 
having to wait 4/5 seconds for the next page to load. We tried increasing RAM 
from 4GB to 8GB but this has not made any improvement.

Can anyone suggest a way to improve the situation, please?

Thanks

p.s. There are 1 or 2 images on each page.

Kind regards,
Denis Daly
Technical Writer

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Re: FrameMaker on MacOS Retina display?

[Davis, David]

It seems a shame not to be able to use the retina display at its native 
resolution.
Can't you fiddle with the settings in Control Panel > Display to change the DPI 
gubbins for fonts and GUI elements?

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2015 11:38:30 +0100
From: Wim Hooghwinkel - idtp 
To: mtedsteinb...@gmail.com
Cc: Framers 
Subject: Re: FrameMaker on MacOS Retina display?
Message-ID: <091d6310-fcb6-4679-a39e-c9c88fb42...@idtp.eu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I also have screen resolution at 1440x900. Check your Parallels video 
configuration settings: I?ve set Resolution to 'scaled'. This way you don?t use 
the full retina resolution but the 'best? for windows.


Vriendelijke groet / Kind regards,

Wim Hooghwinkel

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RE: PDF Issue

[Davis, David]

Hi Denis,
Save As CMYK PDFs is still broken in Frame 12.
I raised a bug on the Adobe "bug base" and had an email 2 weeks before 
Christmas saying that they'd fixed the issue and it would be sorted in the next 
update (v12.0.4, I suppose).
But there is no indication when this will be released. I emailed them to ask 
and they didn't reply. I asked on the Adobe FrameMaker forum and just got lolz.
So I am having to change a bunch of colour definitions in by source files and 
make RGB PDFs as a workaround for now. Annoying.
David


Message: 8
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 14:42:16 +
From: Denis Daly 
To: "framers@lists.frameusers.com" 
Subject: PDF Issue
Message-ID:



Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi,

Does anyone have any update on the following response, to a query I posted a 
couple of months ago?

2: The response from an Adobe person here was that the Save as PDF using CMYK 
has a bug (that they have been able to reproduce). No fix indication yet.

I am still unable to save a PDF using CMYK. It will save fine using RGB setting.

Any advice is appreciated.

Kind regards,
Denis Daly
Technical Writer

[ICPNT Simple Logo White - Small]
Kilbrittain, Bandon, Co. Cork, 
IRELAND
attachments/20150115/00302b90/attachment-0001.jpg

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Re: why view on phone WAS: online FrameMaker 12 Documentation

[Davis, David]

From: Robert Lauriston rob...@lauriston.com

> My guess is they chose Responsive HTML over WebHelp for the same
> reason they dropped topics, used larger type and screen shots, added
>  page breaks, and posted a URL to pages not visible to the public.

/snorts/

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RE: online FrameMaker 12 Documentation totally revamped; in PDF

[Davis, David]

I don't wanna be overly blunt, but the new online help basically looks terrible
(on my Windows 7 / IE10 default setup).  The fonts are enormous and you have to 
click through too many layers of headings to find anything,
with no ToC or breadcrumb trail.

The plain fact is that the printed manual trumped any of this new-fangled 
gubbins.
If Adobe really feel it eats into their profit margin too much to include it 
with the software as standard,
could they not consider selling a printed manual separately, as an additional 
option?

_

David Davis


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RE: mouse alternative

[Davis, David]

I had horrible RSI in my mouse-clicking finger back in the bad-old-days of 
mechanical mice.
Modern optical mice have made things a lot better, and I changed mouse-hands to 
become "ambi-mousetrous" too, which all helped...

I've been using this Microsoft "ergonomic" keyboard and mouse for the past 
year, I'm getting on pretty well with it.
The keyboard is sloped and has a gap in the middle, so your hands turn a bit 
sideways rather than horizontal over the keys - it's a less stressful position.
The mouse is also kind of sideways, so your hand sits in a natural rest 
position.  Costs a bit more than ordinary ones, but I felt it was worth it.

http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-gb/p/sculpt-ergonomic-desktop/L5V-6

_

David Davis


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RE: FM9 Crashes when Creating PDFs with files that Contain

[Davis, David]

A PDF file of a Visio diagram is more or less just a bunch of PostScript 
instructions telling the computer to draw some lines and shapes.
That's a good efficient easily-portable non-lossy way to represent a vector 
diagram.
Nothing odd about it!
David


On Monday, October 27, 2014 3:29 PM, Lin Sims  wrote:


I don't think I've ever heard that the preferred workflow was to create a 
graphic, save it as PDF, and then import it into a Frame file that was going to 
be PDFed. That seems ... odd to me for some reason, but that may just be me. :-)

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RE: Subject: OT: OMG . . . Wonderful customer service from Adobe

[Davis, David]

It's those pod-bay doors all over again! :)


> I can see you're upset, Dave...

> -Original Message-
> From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-
> boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Davis, David
> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2014 12:49 AM
> To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: Subject: OT: OMG . . . Wonderful customer service from Adobe
>
> I have basically found those "chat" things for "customer service" to
> be excruciating from pretty much ANY company that I try.
> The fact that they are physically just so *slow* is bad enough
> (perhaps taking tranquilisers before logging slow your mind to the
> pace better), but usually the poor people typing on the other end are
> forced to "stick to a script" and when you try to engage them outside
> of that, it all goes pear-shaped... it's like arguing with a HAL9000
> system, really it is.
>
> David
>

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Subject: OT: OMG . . . Wonderful customer service from Adobe

[Davis, David]

I have basically found those "chat" things for "customer service" to be 
excruciating from pretty much ANY company that I try.
The fact that they are physically just so *slow* is bad enough (perhaps taking 
tranquilisers before logging slow your mind to the pace better),
but usually the poor people typing on the other end are forced to "stick to a 
script" and when you try to engage them outside of that,
it all goes pear-shaped... it's like arguing with a HAL9000 system, really it 
is.

David

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RE: CMYK vs RGB RE: PDF query

[Davis, David]

Well Adobe's other software (Illustrator, InDesign, Photoshop) and even 
Microsoft's Office suite seems to find it a lot less "complex" than FrameMaker 
does

A screen-shot in a technical manual does come from an RGB colour space. 
Likewise, a photograph taken with a digital camera is natively an RGB thing.  
If they ever gets printed on paper on colour, then CMYK inks will be used to 
print it (there are no RGB inks!)
What's supposed to happen is that they can be included in your PDF output as 
RGB items, tagged with their respective colour profiles (sRGB for a screenshot, 
or something more fancy if the camera's manufacturer supplies their own 
profile), and the PDF is output-device-independent.
So if you view the PDF on screen, the OS and display driver take account of the 
monitor's declared output capabilities, and render the RGB items appropriately;
Conversely, if you're printing the PDF on paper, the OS and printer driver 
connive between themselves to choose appropriate CYMK values to render the RGB 
items on the page.
Trying to convert to CMYK up front in FrameMaker and thus pre-empt the 
printer's capabilities is a mug's game (and vice versa if you have natively 
CMYK or Pantone material in your PDF).


From: Craig Ede [mailto:craig...@hotmail.com]
Sent: 22 October 2014 15:35
To: Davis, David; framers
Subject: RE: CMYK vs RGB RE: PDF query



Yes, I think color conversions are that complex.
RGB was designed for monitors allowing a broad range of additive colors in the 
form of light (i.e. lit pixels).
CMYK was designed for subtractive printing to paper offering a restricted range 
of those colors; many of the RGB colors being "out of gamut" for CMYK, meaning 
there is no formula to convert them.
Nobody serious is printing high-quality hardcopy using R, G, and B inks. And 
I'm not sure why one would want to use CMYK to print to the screen.

Craig
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RE: CMYK vs RGB RE: PDF query

[Davis, David]

Are colour conversions really that "complex"?
They're just converting colour coordinates in one colour-space to those in 
another, using some straightforward formulae that are hidden under the hood.
(The choice of formula, and what to do if a colour is 'out of gamut', depends 
on the 'rendering intent', of which we usually have a choice of four).
The conversions will give 'round-tripping' errors if they're out of gamut.
This is why better Adobe software (Illustrator, Photoshop, InDesign) maps RGB 
and CMYK via a device-independent ("LaB") representation, rather than straight 
from one to the other.
The problem with FrameMaker is that the conversion algorithms it uses are crude 
rubbish. This is why they frequently give such awful results, not because it's 
"complex".

>From previous threads on the Adobe Forums, it seems that the conversion 
>formula Frame uses is:

RGB to CMYK:
C = max(R, G, B) - R
M = max(R, G, B) - G
Y = max(R, G, B) - B
K = 100 - max(R, G, B)

CMYK to RGB:
R = min(100 - K - C, 0)
G = min(100 - K - M, 0)
B = min(100 - K - Y, 0)

...which gives rubbish results.

David



From: Jacob Sch?ffer (Grafikhuset) 
To: ,  "'Craig Ede'" 
Cc: 'framers' 
Subject: RE: CMYK vs RGB RE: PDF query
Message-ID: <00a601cfec93$39b38e10$ad1aaa30$@grafikhuset.dk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

It?s definitely NOT easy to explain this. Color conversions are COMPLEX. 
Anyway, RGB -> CMYK conversion is lossy, and CMYK -> RGB is also lossy.



What is the point of the RGB switch afterall? Why not just pass through what?s 
input and remove this switch?

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RE: CMYK vs RGB RE: PDF query

[Davis, David]

Try this thread for some exploration of these issues. I really do not think 
"colour correctness of the monitor" is the problem here. It's just that 
FrameMaker's colour handling hasn't been updated since about 1988...   
https://forums.adobe.com/thread/1495005

Message: 7
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2014 08:35:13 -0500
From: Craig Ede 
To: "i...@heiko-haida.de" , framers

Subject: RE: CMYK vs RGB RE: PDF query
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Given the theoretical differences I'm not sure why you would expect RGB output 
of CMYK colors to be close to what CMYK color should looks like.

Think of it this way, if you choose a Pantone color as a spot color, you'd 
expect it to print exactly like as that Pantone color to paper. But to the 
screen, who knows? It's be "close" but depends on the color correctness of the 
particular monitor.

Craig



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RE: . PDF query

[Davis, David]

Microsoft’s problem? –
If you mean that FrameMaker utilises a near-obsolete Windows API that’s been 
around since the Windows 3.0 (or something like that), and Adobe (despite 
charging us for half a dozen expensive “new versions” in the intervening years) 
haven’t reauthored their software yet to work in a better way, then I agree ☺


*** Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail
From: Scott Turner [mailto:qui...@airmail.net]
Sent: 20 October 2014 22:46
To: Davis, David
Cc: Lin Sims; Böðvar Björgvinsson; framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: . PDF query

The reason this hasn't been "fixed" is that it's a Microsoft OS problem, not a 
FrameMaker problem. It's been made better, but Microsoft is still the culprit. 
Under the Apple OS, this was a non-problem because there was no translation 
from CMYK to RGB. They were separate attributes.

On Oct 20, 2014, at 10:16, Davis, David 
mailto:david.da...@non.schneider-electric.com>>
 wrote:
A recurring problem is that Dov Isaacs says something, and it’s repeated like a 
mantra by everyone for the next 15 years even when subsequent changes may have 
made that particular advice obsolete…
But then we also have situation when Dov tells that the advice *is* still 
relevant, but for some reason it still hasn’t made it into the actual 
FrameMaker help files.
I’m undecided as to which scenario is to more annoying ☺

From: Lin Sims [mailto:ljsims...@gmail.com]
Sent: 20 October 2014 15:59
To: Böðvar Björgvinsson
Cc: Davis, David; 
framers@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com>
Subject: Re: . PDF query

My recollection may be faulty, but I seem to recall Dov Isaacs saying the 
issues with Save As PDF had been fixed a while ago.
Now if they can just fix the broken Esc keyboard shortcuts.
Lin

On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 10:27 AM, Böðvar Björgvinsson 
mailto:bod...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Since I started seriously learning FrameMaker (7.0) I have always been advised 
against using SaveAs PDF but instead print to file using whatever the name has 
been each version of the Adobe PostScript printer engine. Takes af few more 
clicks but saves a lot of trouble.

Still do it several versions higher.

Regards,

Bodvar Bjorgvinsson


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RE: . PDF query

[Davis, David]

A recurring problem is that Dov Isaacs says something, and it’s repeated like a 
mantra by everyone for the next 15 years even when subsequent changes may have 
made that particular advice obsolete…
But then we also have situation when Dov tells that the advice *is* still 
relevant, but for some reason it still hasn’t made it into the actual 
FrameMaker help files.
I’m undecided as to which scenario is to more annoying ☺

From: Lin Sims [mailto:ljsims...@gmail.com]
Sent: 20 October 2014 15:59
To: Böðvar Björgvinsson
Cc: Davis, David; framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: . PDF query

My recollection may be faulty, but I seem to recall Dov Isaacs saying the 
issues with Save As PDF had been fixed a while ago.
Now if they can just fix the broken Esc keyboard shortcuts.
Lin

On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 10:27 AM, Böðvar Björgvinsson 
mailto:bod...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Since I started seriously learning FrameMaker (7.0) I have always been advised 
against using SaveAs PDF but instead print to file using whatever the name has 
been each version of the Adobe PostScript printer engine. Takes af few more 
clicks but saves a lot of trouble.

Still do it several versions higher.

Regards,

Bodvar Bjorgvinsson


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7AW (Registered number 166023). For a list of European legal entities within 
the Invensys Group, please select the Legal Entities link at invensys.com. 
Invensys Limited is owned by the Schneider-Electric Group.

You may contact Invensys Limited on +44 (0)20 3155 1200 or e-mail 
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RE: PDF query

[Davis, David]

Indeed -
A pity none of these experts ever manage to get their expert opinion manifested 
in the FrameMaker user guide / online help, though!

David


Message: 5
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2014 21:31:08 -0500
From: Mike Wickham 
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: PDF query
Message-ID: <5441d0ec.60...@mikewickham.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Actually, Frame print to PDF was the gold standard. Save as PDF was so
buggy that all experts recommended against using it.

Mike Wickham

On 10/17/2014 4:46 PM, Lin Sims wrote:
> Frame to PDF used to be the gold standard for PDF production. :(

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RE: . PDF query

[Davis, David]

Dennis,
You're not the first person to report this problem.
I doubt you're doing anything wrong, it's just FrameMaker being buggy.
I'd encourage you to report it at Adobe's bug report page 
https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform


Message: 1
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2014 12:31:14 +
From: Denis Daly 
To: "framers@lists.frameusers.com" 
Subject: PDF query
Message-ID:



Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi,

My name is Denis Daly. I have recently started using FrameMaker.

I have had an odd issue today. I saved an individual chapter as a PDF and about 
40% of the images were not present. They are available in the 'Graphics' folder.

I resaved and the same thing happened.

I then saved a third time but selected RGB instead of CYMK; all images were 
present.

I am using FM 12 with the recent update installed.

Can anyone explain this behaviour, please?


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RE: My work-flow for dealing with backups from FrameMaker

[Davis, David]

Yes, I usually save myself using .backups files once every couple of months, 
like you describe Winfried!
They do clutter the directory, but it's worth it in my view :)

David


Message: 1
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 07:09:13 +
From: "Reng, Dr. Winfried" 
To: "framers@lists.frameusers.com" 
Subject: RE: My work-flow for dealing with backups from FrameMaker
sessions... Was: RE: Best practices for converting FM to 
Robohelp
Message-ID:



Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi,

I need the backup files now and then. Sometimes (once a year) I do something, 
save, close the file, and then I notice that I made a mistake. Without the 
backup I could not undo the mistake.

Or very rarely FrameMaker starts to have problems with a file after a certain 
operation.

Therefore I always have the automatic backup enabled!
If you think that you do not need it, you can disable it.
I think it's just an additional safety measure.

Best regards

Winfried

>


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RE: Quoted speech

[Davis, David]

Yes, I occasionally see this on web-pages too, sometimes even on major 
international newspaper sites.

First thing to do: run the page you're looking at through 
http://validator.w3.org
There's a fair chance the page is incorrectly authored (header declarations are 
wrong) and that's why it isn't working in your browser.
(e.g. the author cut-and-pasted out of Word or something, with some 
Windows-specific encoding, and so the encoding in the file isn't actually what 
the file header is saying it is).
There's also a fair chance that the host's webserver is configured wrongly, and 
*that's* why it's not working properly in your browser (e.g. the encoding the 
web servers says it's using to serve the page isn't what it's actually using).

I doubt, though, that the reason it's not working is because it is not possible 
to use non-ASCII punctuation characters in a web page in the year 2014! Because 
it is :)  I'd advocate people's time would be better spent getting a good 
understanding of internationalisation and Unicode, rather than trying to 
convert their source back to ASCII.

David

--

Message: 7
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2014 09:45:28 -0700
From: Robert Lauriston 
To: "framers@lists.frameusers.com" 
Subject: Re: Quoted speech
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Has someone published a modernized set of rules for web-safe fonts
that ensure larger character sets are displayed correctly?

You'd think that by 2014 curly quotes would be safe, but I encountered
missing-glyph icons for some just the other day, on a page where the
character set was UTF-8, using the latest version of Firefox on
Windows 7.

At my last job, one of the single-source targets for some of my docs
was 7-bit ASCII.

___

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RE: Quoted speech

[Davis, David]

Any modern operating system comes with unicode fonts which contain a perfectly 
good selection of glyphs for the sort of punctuation characters we're talking 
about here.
Even Windows XP (and officially end-of-life, dead, deceased and gone to join 
the choir invisible operating system) has fonts with glyphs for curly quotes.


-Original Message-
From: robert.lauris...@gmail.com [mailto:robert.lauris...@gmail.com] On Behalf 
Of Robert Lauriston
Sent: 04 August 2014 17:05
To: Davis, David; framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: Quoted speech

I think you're missing my point. On my computer, the text on Japanese, Korean, 
and Chinese sites is mostly a bunch of boxes, since those fonts aren't 
installed and the glyphs don't exist in whatever font my web browser is 
substituting.

On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 1:28 AM, Davis, David 
 wrote:
> Oh come on, Robert, it's not 1995 any more. There is such a thing as Unicode.
> http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-who-uses-unicode.
> I'd like to see you write a webpage in Japanese using just ISO 8859-1
> :)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2014 09:53:43 -0700
> From: Robert Lauriston 
> To: "framers@lists.frameusers.com" 
> Subject: Re: Quoted speech
> Message-ID:
>
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Coding the HTML correctly doesn't ensure that the reader's system has the 
> necessary character.
>
>  Best practice is generally to stick to the extended 8-bit ASCII
> character set (ISO 8859-1), which does not include U+2018, U+2019,
> U+201C, or U+201D.
>
> On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 12:48 AM, Davis, David 
>  wrote:
>> Theresa,
>> There should be no problem with those characters in HTML, so long as
>> you put the correct declarations in the Header part of the page (to declare 
>> what character set you are using). If you look at a Japanese, Korean or 
>> Chinese site, for instance, you'll generally see they manage to have a 
>> plenty of non-ASCII characters in them ;) Alternatively, you can put & 
>> escape sequences in your HTML for those characters.
> _
>
> *** Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, including any associated or attached 
> files, is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is 
> addressed. This e-mail is confidential and may well also be legally 
> privileged. If you have received it in error, you are on notice of its 
> status. Please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and then delete 
> this message from your system. Please do not copy it or use it for any 
> purposes, or disclose its contents to any other person. This email comes from 
> a division of the Invensys Group, owned by Invensys Limited, which is a 
> company registered in England and Wales with its registered office at 3rd 
> Floor, 40 Grosvenor Place, London, SW1X 7AW (Registered number 166023). For a 
> list of European legal entities within the Invensys Group, please select the 
> Legal Entities link at invensys.com. Invensys Limited is owned by the 
> Schneider-Electric Group.
>
> You may contact Invensys Limited on +44 (0)20 3155 1200 or e-mail 
> recept...@invensys.com. This e-mail and any attachments thereto may be 
> subject to the terms of any agreements between Invensys (and/or its 
> subsidiaries and affiliates) and the recipient (and/or its subsidiaries and 
> affiliates).
> ___
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Wa

Re: Quoted speech

[Davis, David]

Oh come on, Robert, it's not 1995 any more. There is such a thing as Unicode.
http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-who-uses-unicode.
I'd like to see you write a webpage in Japanese using just ISO 8859-1  :)


--

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2014 09:53:43 -0700
From: Robert Lauriston 
To: "framers@lists.frameusers.com" 
Subject: Re: Quoted speech
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Coding the HTML correctly doesn't ensure that the reader's system has the 
necessary character.

 Best practice is generally to stick to the extended 8-bit ASCII character set 
(ISO 8859-1), which does not include U+2018, U+2019,
U+201C, or U+201D.

On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 12:48 AM, Davis, David 
 wrote:
> Theresa,
> There should be no problem with those characters in HTML, so long as
> you put the correct declarations in the Header part of the page (to declare 
> what character set you are using). If you look at a Japanese, Korean or 
> Chinese site, for instance, you'll generally see they manage to have a plenty 
> of non-ASCII characters in them ;) Alternatively, you can put & escape 
> sequences in your HTML for those characters.
_

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Re: Quoted speech

[Davis, David]

Theresa,
There should be no problem with those characters in HTML, so long as you put 
the correct declarations in the Header part of the page (to declare what 
character set you are using). If you look at a Japanese, Korean or Chinese 
site, for instance, you'll generally see they manage to have a plenty of 
non-ASCII characters in them ;)
Alternatively, you can put & escape sequences in your HTML for those characters.
You can check your HTML is correct using a validator such as 
http://validator.w3.org

David

Message: 11
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 09:47:47 -0500
From: Theresa de Valence 
To: "Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net)"
,"framers@lists.frameusers.com"

Subject: Re: Quoted speech
Message-ID: <53da5713.6050...@bstw.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

On 7/30/2014 4:49 PM, Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net) wrote:
> Side-bar curiosity question: why do you choose not to use the curved
> apostrophe's? I find those to be more consistent with the way I want
> my documents to look ... fwiw.


Actually, Z, I want to replace the curly apostrophes with straight
apostrophes, and curly "smart" brackets with straight brackets, because
I believe that these "magic" characters will blow up in epub, html, or
web pages.

Are you suggesting that they won't? I'm new to producting epub but not
web pages which don't seem to like accented characters.

Thanks,
Theresa

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RE:FM 12 in Parallels using Win7

[Davis, David]

32bit and 64bit Windows 7 are functionally identical except that 32bit can only 
use about 2½ gigs of your RAM before it has to start paging things on and off 
the hard disk,
Whereas as 64bit can address more RAM than you can install on any motherboard 
currently available in the shops

David


Message: 1
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2014 14:31:31 +0100
From: Steve Rickaby 
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: FM 12 in Parallels using Win7
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I had a quick search but couldn't see that this issue has been discussed 
recently.

I'm in the process of upgrading to FM 12 using Win7 in Parallels on a Mac Pro. 
My question is simple: which is best, 32-bit Win7 or 64-bit Win7?

--
Steve___

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RE: CORRECTION: Section Number resets after closing file

[Davis, David]

Carol,
Yes, I have experienced odd things with Document Numbering properties in Frame 
12.
Like yourself, they seemed a bit transient and hard to pin down.
But from time to time working on particular documents, I've definitely seen 
things such as certain chapter files stubbornly refusing to retain the settings 
I'd given them in the book (e.g. updating the book would produce repeated 
protests in the error log that there was a settings mismatch).
I seemed to be the sort of thing that taking a deep breath and rebooting cured, 
after which I couldn't reproduce them. But they happened nonetheless!
David.


Message: 2
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2014 11:52:59 -0600
From: "Carol J. Elkins" 
To: fram...@omsys.com,framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: CORRECTION: Section Number resets after closing file
Message-ID: <20140703175309.57ce920d8a...@miniserver.beyondprint.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

You know, I tested the behavior of the Section number problem on this book 
three times before I sent the email for help. Then I tested the other five 
books (and 80 documents) in this series of books and the Section number does 
not reset when the files are closed and reopened.
Then I tested the problem book and now the Section number behavior fine.

So I'd like to modify my question: Has anyone experienced any instability in 
the Document Numbering properties functionality?

I have had documents' Chapter number and Volume number mysteriously reset to 1 
since upgrading to Frame12. I thought it was probably me having senior moments 
or perhaps I acidentally imported a book's numbering properties across all 
files in a book. But ever since this inconsistent behavior started, I've been 
much more careful to NOT import ANY Document properties in any books. I can't 
think of any other way that I could have corrupted the Chapter or Section 
numbers.

But the problem is intermittent and unpredicably caused. So other people's 
experiences might help to build a case.

Carol




I'm working in Frame 12 fully patched on a Win7 system. For each document in a 
book, I've set a specific Section number using the file's Numbering Properties 
(Format-->Document-->Numbering-->Section). Everything works fine while all 
files in the book are open. Cross-references to that section number work 
correctly. However, when I close the files in the book and reopen them, the 
Section number for each file has reset to 1.

For each of these files, I've also defined a Chapter number using the same 
process. The Chapter number does NOT reset when the files are closed are 
reopened.

Can anyone verify this behavior in their Frame12 app? If so, then I'll file a 
bug report.

BTW, is there a way to check to see if someone has already filed a bug report?

Carol



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RE: crashes in Frame 12

[Davis, David]

I've had quite a few crashes in FM12 so far.
For each and every one of them, I've submitted crash logs, and to Adobe's 
credit, someone has emailed me back, often asking for more info and copies of 
the files I was working on,
so there does seem to be a genuine effort to investigate and bug-fix.

On most of the crashes I was getting, the Adobe support engineer told me 
such-and-such had gotten corrupted (things like colour definitions or table 
formats or...)
I found this slightly unedifying because in each instance, I had only edited 
these things through Frame's own GUI (e.g. no messing about in MIF files or 
anything),
so it seemed Frame had managed to 'corrupt' them itself...

Looking forward to another patch release! :)

David

--

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2014 14:43:54 +
From: Vikram Verma 

Hello Everyone,

I work as FrameMaker Product Manager at Adobe. I would like to mention that we 
have fixed a number of crashes in  FM 12 as well as in the couple of patches we 
have released since then. However, if you notice any crashes in your work, 
please report those to us. To report any crashes, please send an email to 
fmer...@adobe.com and include the reproducible steps 
and crash logs, if any.

We are arduously working to fix most of the crashes in FrameMaker 12. Stability 
is extremely important for us and we will be continuously working on making the 
product rock solid. I thank you in advance for your feedback.

Vikram Verma
Product Manager - RoboHelp | Technical Communication Suite | RoboHelp Server
O: +91-120-2444711 x 36103
M: +91-9560897778


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RE: Frame crash on Windows under parallels

[Davis, David]

Lol well if it is due to a bug in Frame (which is almost certainly is) then 
re-installing Windows isn't going to make the slightest bit of difference 
anyways!

David

-Original Message-
From: Harding, Dan [mailto:dhard...@illinois.edu]
Sent: 25 June 2014 12:40
To: Davis, David; framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Frame crash on Windows under parallels

Well, in all fairness, it is *a* solution, although probably not *the* 
solution. :)

-Dan

-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Davis, David
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2014 4:04 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: Frame crash on Windows under parallels

" I was told to ... reinstall my OS"

- at this point it should have become clear to you that you were speaking to an 
idiot.

It's like calling a plumber because you have a leaky pipe, and they tell you to 
demolish your house and build a new one.

David.

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 09:43:27 -0400
From: M Lee 
To: Wim Hooghwinkel - idtp 
Cc: "framers@lists.frameusers.com" ,
Adobe Technical Communication 
Subject: Re: Frame crash on Windows under parallels
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi Wim,

I recently posted a similar question. I also have Windows Ultimate with lots of 
RAM (16 GB) and dual processors (Intel Core i7-4700MQ 2.4GHz).
FrameMaker 9 crashes when I scroll in the Open dialog. I didn't get a definite 
answer. I was told to reinstall FrameMaker or to reinstall my OS.
I haven't had time to try either. If you find a solution, please share.

Thanks.

Martha Lee
_

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Re: Frame crash on Windows under parallels

[Davis, David]

" I was told to ... reinstall my OS"

- at this point it should have become clear to you that you were speaking to an 
idiot.

It's like calling a plumber because you have a leaky pipe, and they tell you to 
demolish your house and build a new one.

David.

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 09:43:27 -0400
From: M Lee 
To: Wim Hooghwinkel - idtp 
Cc: "framers@lists.frameusers.com" ,
Adobe Technical Communication 
Subject: Re: Frame crash on Windows under parallels
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi Wim,

I recently posted a similar question. I also have Windows Ultimate with lots of 
RAM (16 GB) and dual processors (Intel Core i7-4700MQ 2.4GHz).
FrameMaker 9 crashes when I scroll in the Open dialog. I didn't get a definite 
answer. I was told to reinstall FrameMaker or to reinstall my OS.
I haven't had time to try either. If you find a solution, please share.

Thanks.

Martha Lee
_

*** Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, including any associated or attached 
files, is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is 
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7AW (Registered number 166023). For a list of European legal entities within 
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RE: Can't Generate PDF SOLVED

[Davis, David]

Ø  David, your opinions come across more like someone looking for a fight, than 
someone looking for an answer. Or, like some sort of odd guerrilla warfare 
tactic.

Oh for goodness sakes - the only reason I post on a mailing list about 
FrameMaker is because I have to use it every day to get my work done. I may 
frequently have to 'fight' with the software, but I have almost without 
exception found other users to be very helpful and informative, and generous 
with their time and expertise. I see many of us get irritated when the software 
doesn't work properly or isn't documented properly, or get irritated with 
Adobe's pricing models - but not irritated with each other.
The only exception has been Matt - I think this is the third time in the past 
12 months where I've received some hissy fit personal attack from him. He seems 
to be outraged because I disagreed with his advice on a particular dialog box. 
I stand by my technical reasoning on that, although am happy to be corrected 
with better information (I'm only going by what the Help says, and a dimly 
remembered Dov Isaacs posting). Meanwhile Matt or anyone else is free to click 
on that dialog box as they please, to their heart's content.

David

*** Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail
From: Matt Sullivan [mailto:sullivanma...@gmail.com]
Sent: 13 June 2014 16:09
To: Davis, David
Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: Can't Generate PDF SOLVED


The lack of objectivity shown here, while not typical of the framers list as a 
whole, is frequent enough that these days I pay more attention to the Adobe 
User to User forums. The users there are looking for help, I can give it to 
them, and they're grateful. Additionally, the answers tend to be highly 
searchable via Google, so (to my eye) the odds of others finding the solution 
in the future via my posts are better.

I stand by my message on Tuesday eve; I'm happy that I could help a user, and 
don't much care that David was irked by a working solution.

Much was said in the last week about "being moderated" and David, your posts 
seem to be among those that appear 2 days after the conversation. Either you 
don't care as much as you claim in your messages, or you're among those who are 
time-delayed.

It looks like the answer to my irritation is at the bottom of my email

To unsubscribe send a blank email to
framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com>

If anyone needs me, I'll be over at forums.adobe.com<http://forums.adobe.com>.

-Matt


On Jun 13, 2014, at 12:45 AM, Davis, David 
mailto:david.da...@non.schneider-electric.com>>
 wrote:


Well Klaus,
Put it this way:
If you were going to cook a meal,
Would you buy fresh ingredients from a shop?
Or would you go scavenging in restaurants for leftovers on people's plates?   :)

If I'm going to use some fonts in a document, I prefer to have them properly 
installed on my computer,
not scrape them out of the insides of a Word document that I happen to have 
open or whatever

Of course, everyone's individual workflows are different...
But if could only make PDFs successfully with that option selected,
I'd be looking to troubleshoot why that was.
(My guess is that they might be referenced inside an EPS graphic or something 
like that).

David


Message: 4
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 09:33:15 +0200
From: "Klaus Daube" mailto:fr...@daube.ch>>
To: "Davis, David" 
mailto:david.da...@non.schneider-electric.com>>,
   framers@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com>
Subject: Re: Can't Generate PDF SOLVED
Message-ID: 
<539957bb.10871.5af...@frame.daube.ch<mailto:539957bb.10871.5af...@frame.daube.ch>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On 6 Jun 2014 at 2:49, Davis, David wrote:


There's nothing ambiguous about that option! And it's very sensible. I
wouldn't advise anyone to deselect it. Otherwise, Distiller can create
a PDF which references fonts which are only present in a document
that's currently open and loaded in RAM on your PC. It is likely these
will not embed properly and so you will be creating a PDF that has
limited portability.

David, sorry to have a counter-view:

In the past 17 years of using FM and Acrobat I always got incorrect pdfs with 
this option checked. Until Acrobat 9.5 it was (re)set with every update of 
Acrobat and I had to uncheck it frequently.
However, the effect from checking or unchecking this option may depend on the 
system (or more sarcastic: from the water level in the toilet).
I wonder what 'our' expert at Adobe (Dov Isaaks) says about this option.

Klaus Daube


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Re: Can't Generate PDF SOLVED

[Davis, David]

Well Klaus,
Put it this way:
If you were going to cook a meal,
Would you buy fresh ingredients from a shop?
Or would you go scavenging in restaurants for leftovers on people's plates?   :)

If I'm going to use some fonts in a document, I prefer to have them properly 
installed on my computer,
not scrape them out of the insides of a Word document that I happen to have 
open or whatever

Of course, everyone's individual workflows are different...
But if could only make PDFs successfully with that option selected,
I'd be looking to troubleshoot why that was.
(My guess is that they might be referenced inside an EPS graphic or something 
like that).

David


Message: 4
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 09:33:15 +0200
From: "Klaus Daube" 
To: "Davis, David" ,
framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: Can't Generate PDF SOLVED
Message-ID: <539957bb.10871.5af...@frame.daube.ch>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On 6 Jun 2014 at 2:49, Davis, David wrote:

> There's nothing ambiguous about that option! And it's very sensible. I
> wouldn't advise anyone to deselect it. Otherwise, Distiller can create
> a PDF which references fonts which are only present in a document
> that's currently open and loaded in RAM on your PC. It is likely these
> will not embed properly and so you will be creating a PDF that has
> limited portability.

David, sorry to have a counter-view:

In the past 17 years of using FM and Acrobat I always got incorrect pdfs with 
this option checked. Until Acrobat 9.5 it was (re)set with every update of 
Acrobat and I had to uncheck it frequently.
However, the effect from checking or unchecking this option may depend on the 
system (or more sarcastic: from the water level in the toilet).
I wonder what 'our' expert at Adobe (Dov Isaaks) says about this option.

Klaus Daube
~~
Docu + Design Daube; Sch?racher 11; CH-8053 Z?rich Technical documentation & 
consultancy; On-line and paper
F: +41-44-422 86 25  E: d...@daube.ch  W: www.daube.ch

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RE: Can't Generate PDF SOLVED

[Davis, David]

From: Craig Ede mailto:craig...@hotmail.com>>

Ø  Just to make things clear for the user maybe it should say:

Ø  "You choice of RGB resulted no PDF being produced. Try using the CMYK

Ø  setting instead."



Unless it also said something like "Look, we're sorry, but there's JUST NO WAY 
that your colours could be expressed as RGB. I mean, you might think it's down 
to some schoolboy error we made in the maths of our coding algorithm, that's 
been broken for years even though we bring out expensive new software versions 
annually. But really, it's not. Your colours were just to WILD to exist. Sorry 
dude."  *THEN*  I might be happy. :)


_

David Davis   |   Schneider Electric   |   Invensys   |   United Kingdom   |   
Technical Author
Phone: +44 1903 277264
Email: 
david.da...@non.schneider-electric.com
   |   Site: www.invensys.com   |   Address: Faraday 
Close, WORTHING, BN13 3PL, United Kingdom

*** Please note my new Schneider Electric email address effective immediately

*** Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail


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RE: Can't Generate PDF SOLVED

[Davis, David]

Ha! But I think you mean "PDF Failure caused by a bug in our color management 
engine" -
There's nothing wrong with selecting "RGB".
Unless someone at Adobe has been reading too much Douglas Adams and wants to 
start putting "Please do not press this button" tool-tips in the GUI..

David


Message: 22
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 17:51:28 -0500
From: Craig Ede 

> Now that would be a nice situation for Adobe to find a way to put something 
> in the error message saying "PDF failure caused by RGB setting", wouldn't it?

Craig
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Re: Can't Generate PDF SOLVED

[Davis, David]

Well why the devil should the PDF generation fail if you select RGB mode?
And what if you *want* it to be in RGB mode? (as you quite legitimately might 
do!)
Bugtastic!

And Matt, on your blog:
" Font handling
Deselect this ambiguous option: 'Rely on system fonts only; do not use document 
fonts'"

There's nothing ambiguous about that option! And it's very sensible. I wouldn't 
advise anyone to deselect it.
Otherwise, Distiller can create a PDF which references fonts which are only 
present in a document that's currently open and loaded in RAM on your PC.
It is likely these will not embed properly and so you will be creating a PDF 
that has limited portability.

David


Message: 8
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 15:38:12 -0700
From: Karen Robbins 
To: Matt Sullivan 
Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: Can't Generate PDF SOLVED
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"

Matt,

RGB-CMYK was the culprit! I just tested with CMYK
checked in the PDF settings, and the file
rendered correctly. I switched that back to RGB
and it failed.

Thank you!

--Karen

At 3:22 PM -0700 6/4/14, Matt Sullivan wrote:
>Here's what I ran into recently?hope it helps!
>http://www.mattrsullivan.com/blog/fm/framemaker-pdf-snags-and-solutions/
>
>
>-Matt
>
>Matt R. Sullivan
>co-author Publishing
>Fundamentals: Unstructured FrameMaker 11
>P: 714.798.7596 | C: 714.585.2335
>| m...@mattrsullivan.com
>

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Re: Fit or fitted

[Davis, David]

Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 21:54:42 +
From: Tim Pann 

> Hm... "Bastard"? How so?

Because the Norman French tended to rape and pillage the native Saxons, rather 
than marry them in church.


David

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You may contact Invensys Limited on +44 (0)20 3155 1200 or e-mail 
recept...@invensys.com. This e-mail and any attachments thereto may be subject 
to the terms of any agreements between Invensys (and/or its subsidiaries and 
affiliates) and the recipient (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates).
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RE: Colour is wrong in my HTML Help output (Frame12)

[Davis, David]

(Oh and just to add -
I know that HTML Help is capable of displaying the RGB dark green colour I 
want, because I have successfully added a dark green footer line to the bottom 
of every topic, by importing a .htt template file with an  element of the 
appropriate RGB code.   So why can't it manage to have my dark green text that 
same colour?!? )

David


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Colour is wrong in my HTML Help output (Frame12)

[Davis, David]

Hi Folks,
I tried to ask this question on the Adobe Forums but their Adobe ID login seems 
to be broken again /sighs/
(After entering my credentials and clicking "login" I keep getting a screen 
saying
"[cid:image001.png@01CF79CD.FA1BDBA0]Jiv  - Oops, 
the page can't be found
Sorry, the page you requested can't be found. You can go 
back and try again, or start again at 
home"

Great!

Maybe someone here can help though :)

I have the exciting new FrameMaker 12 and am trying to use one of its new 
features, namely saving direct to .CHM files

Obviously, HTML Help is an RGB medium, and I was prepared for colours in my 
Frame document to come out looking a *little* bit altered - but what I am 
seeing is pretty ridiculous
In Frame, I have some Colour Definitions (where I've chosen the Pantone shade 
the client's marketing department asked for from the library, and told Frame to 
specify it as an RGB value),
And then I have character styles where it sets the text to be one of my colours.
It looks fine on screen in Frame. (One of them is a darkish green, another 
other is darkish red ... both used for hyperlinks)

In the Publish pod in Frame, in my output settings, in the Style Mapping tab, I 
see some problems already:
The output style is set to "[source]".
For the dark red character style, the Style Preview window shows the source as 
dark red and the output as dark red... OK
But for the dark green style, the preview window shows them both as a bright 
lime green! It is not at all what the source is!

Then it gets worse -
In the actual CHM output,
the green is style the bright lime green colour,
and the dark red is now blue!!

Anyone know why it's changing them and how do I stop it?
(Surely the colours are just specified as 6 digit Hex codes in CSS - so why 
can't they closely match what I see in Frame's colour definition dialog?)

David
_



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RE: FrameMaker 8 to a Newer Version

[Davis, David]

Helen, you can install the 30 day trial of Frame 12 from Adobe's site, and test 
your templates in it.
I would expect them to still work, however.

David

_


-Original Message-
From: MacDonald, Helen [mailto:hmacdon...@ptitechnologies.com]
Sent: 20 May 2014 17:04
To: Davis, David
Subject: RE: FrameMaker 8 to a Newer Version

Thanks to everyone replying to my question.

Well, I am definitely not using this for a hobby...can't think of any hobby 
that would involve FM. (No offense intended.)

I am still not convinced which route to take - stay with FM8 or upgrade.
It sounds like with the patch I can stay with FM8 and everything should go on 
as usual. Since I haven't yet had to produce XML I do not know how that will 
go. So far I have only had to deliver pdfs.

My biggest concern is using the Template (created with FM6) with a newer 
version of FM.  I don't understand the relationship between the template and 
the version of software that it was created with. Whether or not this even 
matters? I was under the impression it did matter. Or it matters because the 
plugins do not work.

Having the latest software is usually a good thing but if it messes up all of 
the manuals I have created it would not be so good!

Any further insight will be appreciated.
Helen MacDonald
PTI Technologies Inc.



-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com 
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Davis, David
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 12:55 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: FrameMaker 8 to a Newer Version

Unless you are just using FrameMaker as a hobby, I would go for the current 
version (Frame12).
Trying to deliver work on an obsolete unsupported version asking for trouble.
For instance, you might need to open a .fm file from a colleague - and if that 
file is from Frames 9, 10, 11 and 12, you can't.
A Microsoft update patch might break something in Frame8, and it won't be fixed.
And you will also be missing out on various new features (Google "What's New 
FrameMaker  N" where N = 9 to 12 ;)  )

David

--

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 16 May 2014 08:21:25 -0700
From: Robert Lauriston 
To: "MacDonald, Helen" ,
"framers@lists.frameusers.com" 
Subject: Re: FrameMaker 8 to a Newer Version
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

I wish I had a copy of FrameMaker 8, it is in many ways superior to later 
versions, especially if you prefer keyboard shortcuts to the mouse. Adobe 
layered a badly designed UI on top in FM9, the new UI broke a lot of things, 
they never fixed them. They've added some useful features but fundamentally it 
hasn't changed much since FM8 (which does have Unicode support).

People are successfully running FM8 on Windows 7, personally I'd try it before 
switching to a newer version.

On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:53 AM, MacDonald, Helen 
 wrote:
> Hi Framers,


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CONFIDENTIALITY/COMPLIANCE NOTICE: The information in this communication may be 
confidential

RE: FrameMaker 8 to a Newer Version

[Davis, David]

Unless you are just using FrameMaker as a hobby,
I would go for the current version (Frame12).
Trying to deliver work on an obsolete unsupported version asking for trouble.
For instance, you might need to open a .fm file from a colleague - and if that 
file is from Frames 9, 10, 11 and 12, you can't.
A Microsoft update patch might break something in Frame8, and it won't be fixed.
And you will also be missing out on various new features (Google "What's New 
FrameMaker  N" where N = 9 to 12 ;)  )

David

--

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 16 May 2014 08:21:25 -0700
From: Robert Lauriston 
To: "MacDonald, Helen" ,
"framers@lists.frameusers.com" 
Subject: Re: FrameMaker 8 to a Newer Version
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

I wish I had a copy of FrameMaker 8, it is in many ways superior to later 
versions, especially if you prefer keyboard shortcuts to the mouse. Adobe 
layered a badly designed UI on top in FM9, the new UI broke a lot of things, 
they never fixed them. They've added some useful features but fundamentally it 
hasn't changed much since FM8 (which does have Unicode support).

People are successfully running FM8 on Windows 7, personally I'd try it before 
switching to a newer version.

On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:53 AM, MacDonald, Helen 
 wrote:
> Hi Framers,


*** Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, including any associated or attached 
files, is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is 
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notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from 
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Group, owned by Invensys Limited, which is a company registered in England and 
Wales with its registered office at 3rd Floor, 40 Grosvenor Place, London, SW1X 
7AW (Registered number 166023). For a list of European legal entities within 
the Invensys Group, please select the Legal Entities link at invensys.com. 
Invensys Limited is owned by the Schneider-Electric Group.

You may contact Invensys Limited on +44 (0)20 3155 1200 or e-mail 
recept...@invensys.com. This e-mail and any attachments thereto may be subject 
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affiliates) and the recipient (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates).
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RE:Frame Upgrade Gotcha my Current TCS 5 Subscription

[Davis, David]

Ted,
I was just running the 30 day standalone trial of Frame12,
I also had the auto-updated prompt me install 12.0.2,
and it also went pear-shaped - Frame was quite broken afterwards (pop-up 
dialogs telling me the "Publisher service wasn't running" and so forth.

I had to uninstall Frame, re-install it and then apply the update again.
That 2nd time, it worked.  Not sure what the difference was.  I'd just done a 
reboot and had no other apps running, so maybe that helped.

But yes, you're not the only person has had this trouble with the 12.0.2 
auto-update!


Message: 7
Date: Wed, 7 May 2014 13:51:03 -0600
From: Ted Steinberg 
To: Frame Lists 
Subject: Frame Upgrade Gotcha my Current TCS 5 Subscription
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Read to *"The Cure or is it a Gotcha?"* [Because this is why I need advice.]

I am running TCS 5 on Windows 8.1 on a 64bit desktop with 16gb Ram.

Yesterday, May 6th, beginning the first day of my 80th year, Adobe Manager 
presented me with my present, an upgrade to Acrobat Pro 11, which went AOK, and 
Frame 12.0.2 which went crazy  = afterwards, I opened my last saved docs and a 
book from the day before and everything (tabs, pods, frames, et al) were:

   1. SUBAR (Shrunked Up Beyond All Repair  = works for me.)
   2. Sizing Selects, via Zooms or Pic Lists ("fit window to text
   frame") were neither clickable or visible other than with a loupe,
   which by that time, I was loopy.
   3. The pull down menus which I hoped would have a preference or view box
   to select or deselect could only be acceptable to either Ray Charles or
   Helen Keller. As of this writing, neither perform tech support for Adobe
   despite their obvious qualifications.

*At least I had an excuse; *

   1. I call my publisher, he appreciates satire, and I tell him the first
   draft of "Double Jointed Peanuts" is 4F, unfit for duty, and that another
   conscript will arrive once I contact Adobe and write Framers and get out of
   my SUBAR.
   2. I gave up on getting a quick fix from Adobe; their support system was
   developed for mad hatters, but not old ones.


*The cure = or is it a gotcha?*

   1. After several restarts of Frame while checking to see if other docs
   were equally SUBAR (they were), including my trying to create a new doc, I
   thought maybe the upgrade was defunct and not a competence test for ancient
   Framers
   2. I de-installed Frame, which was, as suggested by Adobe Manager,
12.0.2.
   3. I do a restart, and then go to Adobe TCS 5 set up in my download
   folder and reinstall Frame 12.0.0.329.
   4. TCS subscription recognizes me, now all my shrunken heads are ready
   for action = no problem. Frame 12.0.0.329 works like an effective system. 
*Back
   to work, no more excuses!*

*Now for the Oops!*

   1. Today, one day older and wiser, on boot up, Adobe Manager has another
   present for me.
   2. I eyeball the upgrade = Frame 12.0.2.
   3. What should I do, try the upgrade again or let sleeping dogs lie.
  1. If it works, hurray,
  2. If it fails, I'm back in the loop, what do I accomplish other than
  to tell Adobe their updating system is SUBAR?
  3. Does anyone know of other or similar TCS upgrade issues? If so,
  what's the work-around?

Thanks for listening,

TED



--
Ted Steinberg
Management Consultant
Apartado 185-7150
Turrialba, Cartago, Costa Rica
506-2556-5044 [Costa Rica]

   1. ted.steinberg5634 [Skype]
   mtedsteinb...@gmail.com
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RE: Trying out CHM generation in Frame12

[Davis, David]

Thanks for the reply, Amit!

I am pleased to hear that Master Page support for CHMs is planned to be added 
to the next update - have you an idea of the rough timescale for this?
(I do not think I could migrate to Frame12 until this feature is present, I 
would need to just keep using TSC4)

I still do not quite understand the Glossary behaviour, I have replied on the 
forum

Thanks

_

David

From: Amit Jha [mailto:amit...@adobe.com]
Sent: 05 May 2014 12:28
To: Davis, David
Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Trying out CHM generation in Frame12


Hi David



Thanks for reporting these issues.



1.   Master page support to have boilerplate footer in each CHM topic.

We are working on this and it will be available in next update soon.



2.   Glossary options as tool tip, etc,

FM 12 support 4 types Hyperlink, popup, tooltip, expanding text for glossary.

I have replied with steps on the thread 
https://forums.adobe.com/message/6344474.

Please let me know if it is not working for you.



Thanks & Regards

Amit Jha







--

Date: Thu, 1 May 2014 04:05:30 -0500

From: "Davis, David" 
mailto:david.da...@non.schneider-electric.com>>

To: "framers@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com>" 
mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com>>

Subject: Trying out CHM generation in Frame12

Message-ID:


<67dfcb849710504594f24939d8ffe330ae03b4f...@invshouxchmbx03.corp.com<mailto:67dfcb849710504594f24939d8ffe330ae03b4f...@invshouxchmbx03.corp.com>>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"



Hello frameusers.

This week I've been playing with the 30 day trial of FrameMaker 12.



Most of my work at the moment has been generating HTML Help: my existing 
workflow has been with TechComm Suite 4, authoring in Frame 11, linking the 
books into RoboHelp 10 and generating CHMs from there.

I've found that workflow a bit cumbersome, and struggled quite a bit to get my 
CHM files looking the same as my Frame source (although I mostly got there in 
the end, not least with some help from others on this list...)



I'm trying to see whether I could just use Frame 12 instead, and forget about 
RoboHelp and TechComm Suite. (As I don't need the multiplicity of output 
formats the latter can produce.)



The dialog boxes for configuring CHM output from Frame 12 look very familiar ( 
:)  yes, they're straight out of RoboHelp) and I was quickly and easily able to 
achieve about 95% of what I'd been doing in TCS4.



The only 'gotcha' I have encountered is this:

Creating a CHM from Frame12 still ignores anything that was on a Master Page or 
Reference Page - so any 'boilerplate' graphics etc get ditched.

In TCS4, I'd instead used RoboHelp "Master Pages" to append a boilerplate 
footer to each CHM topic.

Am I right that I can't do this with Frame12 alone?  Or is there some 
workaround I'm overlooking?

(Sadly I don't think I can do without this feature, so if it can't be done in 
Frame12 alone I'll need to stick with TCS4...  TCS5 is no good as it doesn't 
have Illustrator, as many of you have already noted..)



Also, the "Glossary" feature in Frame12 seems to be broken - I ought to be able 
to include "GlossaryTerm" markers on words, and have the marker text displayed 
in the CHM as tooltips, pop-ups, etc. It doesn't appear to work though (other 
people have confirmed the same issue on the Adobe Forums). Has anyone here 
tried this successfully?





David





*** Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, including any associated or attached 
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If you have received it in error, you are on notice of its status. Please 
notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from 
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Group, owned by Invensys Limited, which is a company registered in England and 
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7AW (Registered number 166023). For a list of European legal entities within 
the Invensys Group, please select the Legal Entities link at invensys.com. 
Invensys Limited is owned by the Schneider-Electric Group.



You may contact Invensys Limited on +44 (0)20 3155 1200 or e-mail 
recept...@invensys.com<mailto:recept...@invensys.com>. This e-mail and any 
attachments thereto may be subject to the terms of any agreements between 
Invensys (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates) and the recipient (and

Trying out CHM generation in Frame12

[Davis, David]

Hello frameusers.
This week I've been playing with the 30 day trial of FrameMaker 12.

Most of my work at the moment has been generating HTML Help: my existing 
workflow has been with TechComm Suite 4, authoring in Frame 11, linking the 
books into RoboHelp 10 and generating CHMs from there.
I've found that workflow a bit cumbersome, and struggled quite a bit to get my 
CHM files looking the same as my Frame source
(although I mostly got there in the end, not least with some help from others 
on this list...)

I'm trying to see whether I could just use Frame 12 instead, and forget about 
RoboHelp and TechComm Suite. (As I don't need the multiplicity of output 
formats the latter can produce.)

The dialog boxes for configuring CHM output from Frame 12 look very familiar ( 
:)  yes, they're straight out of RoboHelp) and I was quickly and easily able to 
achieve about 95% of what I'd been doing in TCS4.

The only 'gotcha' I have encountered is this:
Creating a CHM from Frame12 still ignores anything that was on a Master Page or 
Reference Page - so any 'boilerplate' graphics etc get ditched.
In TCS4, I'd instead used RoboHelp "Master Pages" to append a boilerplate 
footer to each CHM topic.
Am I right that I can't do this with Frame12 alone?  Or is there some 
workaround I'm overlooking?
(Sadly I don't think I can do without this feature, so if it can't be done in 
Frame12 alone I'll need to stick with TCS4...  TCS5 is no good as it doesn't 
have Illustrator, as many of you have already noted..)

Also, the "Glossary" feature in Frame12 seems to be broken - I ought to be able 
to include "GlossaryTerm" markers on words, and have the marker text displayed 
in the CHM as tooltips, pop-ups, etc. It doesn't appear to work though (other 
people have confirmed the same issue on the Adobe Forums). Has anyone here 
tried this successfully?


David


*** Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, including any associated or attached 
files, is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is 
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notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from 
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contents to any other person. This email comes from a division of the Invensys 
Group, owned by Invensys Limited, which is a company registered in England and 
Wales with its registered office at 3rd Floor, 40 Grosvenor Place, London, SW1X 
7AW (Registered number 166023). For a list of European legal entities within 
the Invensys Group, please select the Legal Entities link at invensys.com. 
Invensys Limited is owned by the Schneider-Electric Group.

You may contact Invensys Limited on +44 (0)20 3155 1200 or e-mail 
recept...@invensys.com. This e-mail and any attachments thereto may be subject 
to the terms of any agreements between Invensys (and/or its subsidiaries and 
affiliates) and the recipient (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates).
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Re: Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7

[Davis, David]

Robert, 
Not wanting to be "on your case" /grins/ but you obviously have a fair amount 
of IT expertise - many users don't, and I don't think the approach you are 
recommending is going to suit them.

Using legacy software is generally going to lead to compatibility problems 
(both with files people want to work on, and with the operating system).
Additionally, vendors support current software with security fixes - whereas 
legacy software is left unpatched.
And newer versions will tend to be compiled to take advantage of newer 
processor instruction sets (and 64 bit architecture, ahem ;)   ... so can work 
harder/better/faster/longer etc.

I've done more than one 'data centre migration' type documentation contract in 
the past few years, 
Where companies were trying to migrate thousands of servers and apps, and were 
having real problems because they had important business processes tied to 
legacy software (where people had taken a "not broken, so don't fix it" 
approach to upgrades), and had ended up leaving themselves stranded high and 
dry with no easy upgrade process to new hardware and OS platforms. It is 
generally a false economy, either on the enterprise or the individual scale.

David


Message: 3
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 09:19:22 -0800
From: Robert Lauriston 
To: "framers@lists.frameusers.com" 
Subject: Re: Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I own FrameMaker 6, Acrobat 8, Photoshop 5, Illustrator 7, and various more 
obscure apps of similar vintage. They all work fine for my purposes and 
upgrading would be not just a waste of money but a waste of time having to get 
used to UI changes.

Buying a newer version of something because I needed it to work with a client's 
docs is the main reason I've upgraded, but I haven't freelanced with my own 
software in a long time.

Unicode was added in FrameMaker 8, which remains the high-water mark for that 
codeline.



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RE: Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7

[Davis, David]

The thing is, Robert, 
FM7 and Acrobat 7 have problems with more than just Windows 7, 
and if someone's earning their living using them, my advice to them would be to 
update their tools to something more recent, rather than compromise their 
operating system!
Even on a basic level, if you only have FM7, you are not going to be able to 
open any FrameMaker docs you get sent from people with FM7.1, 7.2, 8, 9, 10, 11 
or 12! 
And you don't have Unicode support (that was FM 7.2, I think?).

David


Message: 7
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2014 11:42:45 -0800
From: Robert Lauriston 
To: "framers@lists.frameusers.com" 
Subject: Re: Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

The subject of this thread is "Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 
7" and the opening post specifically mentioned FM7 and Acrobat 7, which do have 
problems with 64-bit Windows.

On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 11:25 AM, Syed Zaeem Hosain
(syed.hos...@aeris.net)  wrote:
> most people do not use old programs that don't work in 64-bit installations 
> of Windows 7.

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RE: Cannot insert the infinity symbol and other special

[Davis, David]

If your colleague is getting the question mark, 
that's FrameMaker's way of telling you that "the font you have asked me to use 
doesn't have a glyph for that character".

It's not uncommon for tech author's to be lumbered with using a font in a Frame 
Template that someone in the company's Marketing Dept picked because it looks 
nice, and that someone in the company's IT dept installed cos it was cheap, 
without realising that it is doesn't have gylphs for a lot of useful technical 
symbols etc...

If you've cut-and-pasted in from Word just by doing Ctrl+V, then chances are 
you've over-ridden the Frame paragraph style and/or character style for the 
surrounding text  (so Frame may not be trying to use the font you think it's 
using) - to avoid this, paste into Frame using "Paste Special" and asking it to 
paste as unformatted Unicode text (Alt, E, S, U, return).

Also make sure your PC has the most up-to-date version of the font installed, 
as font vendors issue new versions every year or two, usually containing more 
glyphs.  (Check in Control Panel > Font to find the version of the font that 
you have, and on the vendor's website to see if there's a new version... and 
then if it's not free, have fun emailing  Marketing & IT and trying to get them 
to understand what you're talking about and why you'd like them to spend money 
on a new version of a font...)

You may simply find that the font you have been told to use doesn't have a 
glyph for the character you need. In that case, you can work around it by 
making a special character style that will apply a suitable font which does 
have the character...

David


Message: 4
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2014 21:07:48 +
From: Fei Min Lorente 
To: Fred Ridder , Lise Bible

Cc: "framers@lists.frameusers.com" 
Subject: RE: Cannot insert the infinity symbol and other special
character   problems
Message-ID:
<422cbc2f0af7d24985d811d2e556f3f00ea9a...@onwater54m.ad.onsemi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp"

Thank you for the directions to the Character Palette. That works for me, but 
my colleague is still getting a question mark when she tries to insert the 
infinity symbol. There?s obviously something wrong with her setup.

Yes, the Character Palette is crude, so it really helped to know that 221E 
would get me the infinity symbol; otherwise I could spend all day looking for 
it, and still miss it.


Also, thanks for this site, Robert: 
http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/221e/index.htm. It?s very 
thorough, and it was reassuring to know that the infinity symbol is available 
in Trebuchet, which is the font we?re using.



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Re: Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7

[Davis, David]

Robert, 
I'd agree that if someone is buying a new computer and is only planning on 
doing word processing on it, 
then there's probably no point in them spending cash on getting over 2GB RAM in 
it (spend it on a better quality PSU, or a nice big fast SSD drive, or a couple 
of nice big monitor screens, or...)  

But if you already have a PC with 2GB RAM and have a choice of 32bit vs 64bit 
Windows, then I really don't see any reason to go for 32 bit on the grounds of 
"compatibility" - 
the only things you may have compatibility problems with are, as you say, 
ancient DOS programs or some obsolete hardware drivers
and if someone is concerned with compatibility and wants an easy life, I don't 
see what they'd be doing with either of those on their PC in the first place! :)
Avoiding keeping your IT estate current on compatibility grounds is very much a 
false economy, as sooner or later they'll find themselves marooned with 
software that is no longer up to the job and with no easy upgrade path...

As for memory-intensive audio software: that's a textbook example of an 
application where 64 bit is ideal! If you're running big audio sample libraries 
(e.g. there's orchestral ones out there these days that run to tens of 
gigabytes) then you'll want them all loaded up in RAM at once, which is only 
possible on a 64 bit OS. You can expect hugely better performance in that 
scenario kind of scenario with 64 bit. If you're not seeing it then that 
suggests to me that something's not configured right on your PC.



Message: 6
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2014 10:49:35 -0800
From: Robert Lauriston 
To: "framers@lists.frameusers.com" 
Subject: Re: Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I think buying more than 4GB of RAM would be a waste of money for most
tech writers.

The only thing I've done in my work where I've needed more than 4GB is
testing server applications with large memory footprints. The rest of
the time I'm not using even half my 4GB.

Outside of work I run music software that's extremely memory-intensive
and 4GB on 32-bit is not a bottleneck.

On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 3:40 PM, Syed Zaeem Hosain
(syed.hos...@aeris.net)  wrote:
> On a modern computer/laptop of the past few years, which are usually fully 
> 64-bit capable and _usually_ have more than 4GB of main memory, installing 
> Windows 7 32-bit is silly and wasteful. You end up not using the memory above 
> 4GB (actually, less, since the graphics cards and stuff also take up some of 
> the low-memory in a 32-bit OS load), etc., etc., etc.

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RE: Cannot insert the infinity symbol and other special character

[Davis, David]

Fei Min, there's a bit of confusion going on here!

When you say...

> it is Unicode 221E, but perhaps all that information is obsolete now

The Unicode standard is not obsolete, it is alive and well at 
http://www.unicode.org  :)  It is not something defined by Adobe FrameMaker or 
Microsoft Windows.

>  In any case, I tried holding down Alt while I pressed +221e

The Windows operating system doesn't give you access to Unicode characters by 
that method, so that's why that didn't work! :)

The utility bundled with Windows to get to them is the venerable Character Map 
tool (quickest way to launch it is press Windows+R, type "charmap" and press 
return, and up it pops...) 
Its search function is not very good though, and it doesn't show you the 
characters unless the currently-selected font has a glyph for it - a bit 
useless, really.

If you want something a bit more rigorous and heavy duty for finding exotic 
Unicode characters, I'd recommend the free Babel Map utility 
http://www.babelstone.co.uk/Software/BabelMap.html

Your method of cutting-and-pasting the character you want from Word isn't so 
very wrong though! - with either Character Map or Babel Map, that is still the 
method you have to use: find your character in the utility, then copy and paste 
it into Frame.
(The reason in may go wrong in Word is because Word might be showing a 
character using a 'Dingbat' font, which substitutes a different glyph for a 
different character... so when Frame renders that character with a different 
font, you don't get the glyph you were expecting).

--

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2014 19:33:50 +
From: Fei Min Lorente 
To: "framers@lists.frameusers.com" 
Subject: Cannot insert the infinity symbol and other special character
problems
Message-ID:
<422cbc2f0af7d24985d811d2e556f3f00ea9a...@onwater54m.ad.onsemi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I'm working in FrameMaker 10 on Windows 7 and I cannot insert the infinity 
symbol. According to the FrameMaker character set documentation, it is Unicode 
221E, but perhaps all that information is obsolete now. In any case, I tried 
holding down Alt while I pressed +221e, and all I got was the Edit menu. I 
can't find a keyboard shortcut for it. I resorted to getting the symbol in Word 
and copying and pasting it into FrameMaker, but seriously, is that what I have 
to do? Or do I have to create an equation and insert the symbol?

My colleague is also working in FrameMaker 10 on Windows 7 and she can't use 
the keyboard shortcuts (such as ctrl-q shift-8 to get a TM symbol). She gets 
other characters instead. She's resorted to copying and pasting from Word, and 
those all work except for the infinity symbol. All the information I've found 
on the internet has been for FrameMaker 7 or older. Can anyone tell me what to 
do for FrameMaker 10?

Fei Min Lorente
Senior Technical Communicator
Medical and Wireless Division
feimin.lore...@onsemi.com
+1 519-884-9696 ext. 2229 | Waterloo office
+1 519-831-4931 | mobile
+1 905-631-5724 | fax
www.onsemi.com

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Re: Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7

[Davis, David]

Robert, 
You don't say what benchmarking method you used to compare 64 bit and 32 bit 
Windows - 
Generally, it will only manifest itself where one program (or a combination of 
programs) want to access more than 2GB of RAM in one go - 
it's always going to be faster to talk to RAM than to page things on and off 
the pagefile.sys on your hard drive.

I can't vouch for the ability of any modern OS to run "ancient DOS apps", but 
in general I tend to find it's a risky strategy to use obsolete software for 
things that you rely on to get your work done.
There'll be no vendor support.  


--

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2014 10:02:18 -0800
From: Robert Lauriston 
To: "Davis, David" ,
"framers@lists.frameusers.com" 
Subject: Re: Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

The memory limit is per process. There are various ways that 32-bit 
applications that need more than 2GB of memory (which few do) can use it in 
32-bit Windows.

I worked for 18 months with 64-bit Windows 7 at work and 32-bit Windows 7 at 
home. I saw no performance difference. I had both 64-bit and 32-bit Photoshop 
on the work computer and the only difference I noticed was that it took much 
longer for the 64-bit version to load.

The only significant difference was that I could run things at home I could not 
run at work. XP Mode had problems. 32-bit Win7 can run ancient DOS apps, 64-bit 
can't.

On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Davis, David  wrote:
> Personally I wouldn't do it that way - as you then don't get the advantages 
> 64 bit windows offers with being able to address more RAM - in 32 bit Windows 
> you can only use a couple of GB. With a busy PC, big documents, big graphics, 
> video etc you can easily use more than 2GB of memory.
>
> The pro editions of Windows 7 offer an "XP Mode" for running old applications 
> (Basically it runs them inside a virtual machine of Windows XP - but 
> transparently, once you've set it up, you just click the program's icon to 
> launch it like any other, and it appears to be running in Windows 7, and can 
> access your Win7 filesystem seamlessly).  I've never yet encountered an 
> application that couldn't work in XP mode like this, even 16 bit (!) ones 
> designed to run on Windows 3.1.

> From: Robert Lauriston  Install Windows 7 32-bit 
> rather than 64-bit, fewer potential compatibility problems.


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Re: Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7

[Davis, David]

Personally I wouldn't do it that way - as you then don't get the advantages 64 
bit windows offers with being able to address more RAM - in 32 bit Windows you 
can only use a couple of GB. With a busy PC, big documents, big graphics, video 
etc you can easily use more than 2GB of memory.

The pro editions of Windows 7 offer an "XP Mode" for running old applications 
(Basically it runs them inside a virtual machine of Windows XP - but 
transparently, once you've set it up, you just click the program's icon to 
launch it like any other, and it appears to be running in Windows 7, and can 
access your Win7 filesystem seamlessly).  I've never yet encountered an 
application that couldn't work in XP mode like this, even 16 bit (!) ones 
designed to run on Windows 3.1. 

David

--

Message: 9
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 09:57:44 -0800
From: Robert Lauriston 
To: Carrie Baker ,
"framers@lists.frameusers.com" 
Subject: Re: Compatibility of old(ish) Software with Windows 7
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Install Windows 7 32-bit rather than 64-bit, fewer potential
compatibility problems.


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RE:FM12: SaveAs PDF not showing Dingbats in Ref pages

[Davis, David]

Most likely culprit is a font-embedding issue? 
What is the Dingbat font you're using. Does it support embedding? Is it getting 
embedded in the PDF you make from Print to file?

David


Message: 1
Date: Sun, 2 Feb 2014 18:31:14 +
From: B??var Bj?rgvinsson 
To: FrameUsers List 
Subject: FM12: SaveAs PDF not showing Dingbats in Ref pages
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hi all,
I always use print to file and distill from there. Today I was "playing"
with the new FM12 creating a small newsletter. There was one heading that 
needed a dingbat above which I created, and it showed OK in FM12. But when 
saving as PDF it just did not show in the pdf file. I tried this in several 
ways but finally did "as I always do" and printed the fm to file and distilled 
from there. Now the dingbat showed.

So, still the SaveAs PDF is buggy and not to rely on, it seems.

Best regards,
Bodvar

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RE: Font issue in Framemaker 10, Windows 7, 64-bit

[Davis, David]

It sounds very much to me like the font vendor is a bit clueless and has 
something set wrong on the software he's using to make the font.

The fact that " that he never had encountered this problem before" does not 
affect your statutory consumer rights, as they say.

David


>>
Subject: RE: Font issue in Framemaker 10, Windows 7, 64-bit

 

Hi Tina,


Thank you! I did check with the font dealer directly and he even sent me the 
newest font files and I installed those and  I still the exact same issue as 
you! I worked for over an hour with him and he claimed that he never had 
encountered this problem before and he couldn't help me any further as I had 
the latest font files.

Thank you so much for confirming this for me.

I appreciate the information.



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contents to any other person. This email comes from a division of the Invensys 
Group, owned by Invensys plc, which is a company registered in England and 
Wales with its registered office at 3rd Floor, 40 Grosvenor Place, London, SW1X 
7AW (Registered number 166023). For a list of European legal entities within 
the Invensys Group, please select the Legal Entities link at invensys.com.


You may contact Invensys plc on +44 (0)20 3155 1200 or e-mail 
recept...@invensys.com. This e-mail and any attachments thereto may be subject 
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RE: FrameMaker freaks me out

[Davis, David]

DropBox?

Another nice new feature in Windows 8 is that it offers integration to 
Microsoft's cloud storage ("SkyDrive"), you get 7GB for free, 
And it's pretty simple to set it to automatically back up stuff from a local 
hard drive to the cloud as you work. 

David


Message: 3
Date: Thu, 23 Jan 2014 19:34:35 +
From: Steve Rickaby 
To: "Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net)"
,"framers@lists.frameusers.com"

Subject: RE: FrameMaker freaks me out
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 10:42 -0800 23/1/14, Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net) wrote:

>Since then, I have relied on two things:

DropBox is my friend ;-)

-- 
Steve

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Subject: RE: OT: Adobe Acrobat Pro and Adobe Reader on same client

[Davis, David]

I'd echo Syed's point here - 
We Tech Pubs folk have a habit of repeating something Dov Isaac's said over a 
decade ago like it's some kind of holy writ, 
but 10 computer years is about a century in real years ;) Things may well (and 
certainly ought to) have changed since then.

I'd like to see a list of the actual DLLs and registry entries and blah blah 
that are involved before accepting that Adobe still haven't fixed this.
(lol but then again, there are so many corners of FrameMaker that Adobe haven't 
fixed since they ported it off the NeXT, so who am I trying to kid... ;) )

The standard solution for this kind of issue is to have a virtual machine on 
which to test your customer experience.

If you have Windows 8, it comes with "Microsoft HyperV" built in, you can 
create a virtual machine with a few clicks, install Reader in it, and play away 
to your hearts content.  (Shock news: Windows 8 actually does have some useful 
new features in it, see?  :) )
Another handy free virtual machine is Oracle's www.virtualbox.org 
Give one of these a try and never mess up your precious working environment 
ever again!

David



Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2014 14:45:58 -0800
From: "Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net)"

To: "Mike Wickham" ,
"framers@lists.frameusers.com" 
Subject: RE: OT: Adobe Acrobat Pro and Adobe Reader on same client
Message-ID:



Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I guess my reaction is that the information from Dov at that link you found is 
from 2004 - almost ten years ago... on Windows 98 and Windows XP systems 
apparently, etc.

The results may be quite different today perhaps? Or maybe it is my approach of 
always installing Acrobat after Reader ...

 Works for me (and I ain't boasting ... merely reporting. :) :))


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RE: framers Digest, Vol 99, Issue 6

[Davis, David]

Am intrigued by the claim you can now save .CHMs (HTML Help) natively from 
Frame 12.
Most of the past year I have been faffing around in TechCommSuite 4, basically 
trying to so nothing more complicated than author in Frame and make a CHM out 
of it. I have not found it very easy or intuitive at all: basically RoboHelp 
breaks everything out of the box, and I've found it very arduous making 
everything just look the way it was in Frame in the first place! (Unless you 
choose settings to just have things "As Source", which I keep getting told I 
shouldn't do because it generates atrocious HTML).

If I can now do "Save As... CHM" and just tweak a few output settings (same way 
as I tweak a few Distiller job options for Save As ...PDF) that would be a lot 
less fuss! And there'd be no need to fork out for Tech Comm Suite 5 - so I 
could save the money and buy Illustrator instead ;) 
(Sorry, rent Illustrator instead ... :/  )


Regards,

David Davis
Technical Author

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 07:57:14 +
From: "Reng, Dr. Winfried" 
To: "framers@lists.frameusers.com" 
Subject: FrameMaker 12 released
Message-ID:



Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi,

FrameMaker 12 is released now.
There are many links with information. See below.

Best regards

Winfried

---

http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/2014/01/framemaker-12-launch-blog.html

http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/2014/01/technical-communication-suite-5-is-here.html

http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/2014/01/product-o-pedia-2014.html

What's new in FrameMaker 12:
http://www.adobe.com/products/framemaker/features.html

Refer to the version comparison chart to see how FM has evolved:
wwwimages.adobe.com/www.adobe.com/content/dam/Adobe/en/products/framemaker/framemaker-12/PDFs/FRAMEMAKER12_VERSION_COMPARISION.PDF

For answers to many questions on FM12, please see the FM12 FAQ 
http://www.adobe.com/products/framemaker/faq.html

What's new inTechCommSuite 5: TCS 5 Features 
http://www.adobe.com/products/technicalcommunicationsuite/features.html

Refer to the version comparison to see how the TCS has evolved:
http://wwwimages.adobe.com/www.adobe.com/content/dam/Adobe/en/products/technicalcommunicationsuite/techcomsuite-5/pdf/TCS5_VERSION_COMPARISION.PDF

Reviews:
http://techwhirl.com/adobe-framemaker-12-first-look-review/
http://techwhirl.com/adobe-framemaker-xml-author-12-first-look-review/

*** Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, including any associated or attached 
files, is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is 
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If you have received it in error, you are on notice of its status. Please 
notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from 
your system. Please do not copy it or use it for any purposes, or disclose its 
contents to any other person. This email comes from a division of the Invensys 
Group, owned by Invensys plc, which is a company registered in England and 
Wales with its registered office at 3rd Floor, 40 Grosvenor Place, London, SW1X 
7AW (Registered number 166023). For a list of European legal entities within 
the Invensys Group, please select the Legal Entities link at invensys.com.


You may contact Invensys plc on +44 (0)20 3155 1200 or e-mail 
recept...@invensys.com. This e-mail and any attachments thereto may be subject 
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RE: FrameMaker 12 released

[Davis, David]

So one of the "enhancements" for TCS5 is that it's "cheaper" because it no 
longer includes Illustrator. Genius! :-D

(Of course, if you still need Illustrator, you'll now have to buy it 
separately, so it'll cost even more...) Ho hum


Message: 2
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 07:57:14 +
From: "Reng, Dr. Winfried" 
To: "framers@lists.frameusers.com" 
Subject: FrameMaker 12 released
Message-ID:



Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi,

FrameMaker 12 is released now.
There are many links with information. See below.

Best regards

Winfried

---

http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/2014/01/framemaker-12-launch-blog.html

http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/2014/01/technical-communication-suite-5-is-here.html

http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/2014/01/product-o-pedia-2014.html

What's new in FrameMaker 12:
http://www.adobe.com/products/framemaker/features.html

Refer to the version comparison chart to see how FM has evolved:
wwwimages.adobe.com/www.adobe.com/content/dam/Adobe/en/products/framemaker/framemaker-12/PDFs/FRAMEMAKER12_VERSION_COMPARISION.PDF

For answers to many questions on FM12, please see the FM12 FAQ 
http://www.adobe.com/products/framemaker/faq.html

What's new inTechCommSuite 5: TCS 5 Features 
http://www.adobe.com/products/technicalcommunicationsuite/features.html

Refer to the version comparison to see how the TCS has evolved:
http://wwwimages.adobe.com/www.adobe.com/content/dam/Adobe/en/products/technicalcommunicationsuite/techcomsuite-5/pdf/TCS5_VERSION_COMPARISION.PDF

Reviews:
http://techwhirl.com/adobe-framemaker-12-first-look-review/
http://techwhirl.com/adobe-framemaker-xml-author-12-first-look-review/


*** Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, including any associated or attached 
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notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from 
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Group, owned by Invensys plc, which is a company registered in England and 
Wales with its registered office at 3rd Floor, 40 Grosvenor Place, London, SW1X 
7AW (Registered number 166023). For a list of European legal entities within 
the Invensys Group, please select the Legal Entities link at invensys.com.


You may contact Invensys plc on +44 (0)20 3155 1200 or e-mail 
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framers Digest, Vol 99, Issue 6

[Davis, David]

Am intrigued by the claim you can now save .CHMs (HTML Help) natively from 
Frame 12.
Most of the past year I have been faffing around in TechCommSuite 4, basically 
trying to so nothing more complicated than author in Frame and make a CHM out 
of it. I have not found it very easy or intuitive at all: basically RoboHelp 
breaks everything out of the box, and I've found it very arduous making 
everything just look the way it was in Frame in the first place! (Unless you 
choose settings to just have things "As Source", which I keep getting told I 
shouldn't do because it generates atrocious HTML).

If I can now do "Save As... CHM" and just tweak a few output settings (same way 
as I tweak a few Distiller job options for Save As ...PDF) that would be a lot 
less fuss! And there'd be no need to fork out for Tech Comm Suite 5 - so I 
could save the money and buy Illustrator instead ;) 
(Sorry, rent Illustrator instead ... :/  )


Regards,

David Davis
Technical Author

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 07:57:14 +
From: "Reng, Dr. Winfried" 
To: "framers at lists.frameusers.com" 
Subject: FrameMaker 12 released
Message-ID:


Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi,

FrameMaker 12 is released now.
There are many links with information. See below.

Best regards

Winfried

---

http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/2014/01/framemaker-12-launch-blog.html

http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/2014/01/technical-communication-suite-5-is-here.html

http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/2014/01/product-o-pedia-2014.html

What's new in FrameMaker 12:
http://www.adobe.com/products/framemaker/features.html

Refer to the version comparison chart to see how FM has evolved:
wwwimages.adobe.com/www.adobe.com/content/dam/Adobe/en/products/framemaker/framemaker-12/PDFs/FRAMEMAKER12_VERSION_COMPARISION.PDF

For answers to many questions on FM12, please see the FM12 FAQ 
http://www.adobe.com/products/framemaker/faq.html

What's new inTechCommSuite 5: TCS 5 Features 
http://www.adobe.com/products/technicalcommunicationsuite/features.html

Refer to the version comparison to see how the TCS has evolved:
http://wwwimages.adobe.com/www.adobe.com/content/dam/Adobe/en/products/technicalcommunicationsuite/techcomsuite-5/pdf/TCS5_VERSION_COMPARISION.PDF

Reviews:
http://techwhirl.com/adobe-framemaker-12-first-look-review/
http://techwhirl.com/adobe-framemaker-xml-author-12-first-look-review/

*** Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, including any associated or attached 
files, is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is 
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If you have received it in error, you are on notice of its status. Please 
notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from 
your system. Please do not copy it or use it for any purposes, or disclose its 
contents to any other person. This email comes from a division of the Invensys 
Group, owned by Invensys plc, which is a company registered in England and 
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7AW (Registered number 166023). For a list of European legal entities within 
the Invensys Group, please select the Legal Entities link at invensys.com.


You may contact Invensys plc on +44 (0)20 3155 1200 or e-mail reception at 
invensys.com. This e-mail and any attachments thereto may be subject to the 
terms of any agreements between Invensys (and/or its subsidiaries and 
affiliates) and the recipient (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates).

FrameMaker 12 released

[Davis, David]

So one of the "enhancements" for TCS5 is that it's "cheaper" because it no 
longer includes Illustrator. Genius! :-D

(Of course, if you still need Illustrator, you'll now have to buy it 
separately, so it'll cost even more...) Ho hum


Message: 2
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 07:57:14 +
From: "Reng, Dr. Winfried" 
To: "framers at lists.frameusers.com" 
Subject: FrameMaker 12 released
Message-ID:


Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi,

FrameMaker 12 is released now.
There are many links with information. See below.

Best regards

Winfried

---

http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/2014/01/framemaker-12-launch-blog.html

http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/2014/01/technical-communication-suite-5-is-here.html

http://blogs.adobe.com/techcomm/2014/01/product-o-pedia-2014.html

What's new in FrameMaker 12:
http://www.adobe.com/products/framemaker/features.html

Refer to the version comparison chart to see how FM has evolved:
wwwimages.adobe.com/www.adobe.com/content/dam/Adobe/en/products/framemaker/framemaker-12/PDFs/FRAMEMAKER12_VERSION_COMPARISION.PDF

For answers to many questions on FM12, please see the FM12 FAQ 
http://www.adobe.com/products/framemaker/faq.html

What's new inTechCommSuite 5: TCS 5 Features 
http://www.adobe.com/products/technicalcommunicationsuite/features.html

Refer to the version comparison to see how the TCS has evolved:
http://wwwimages.adobe.com/www.adobe.com/content/dam/Adobe/en/products/technicalcommunicationsuite/techcomsuite-5/pdf/TCS5_VERSION_COMPARISION.PDF

Reviews:
http://techwhirl.com/adobe-framemaker-12-first-look-review/
http://techwhirl.com/adobe-framemaker-xml-author-12-first-look-review/


*** Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, including any associated or attached 
files, is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is 
addressed. This e-mail is confidential and may well also be legally privileged. 
If you have received it in error, you are on notice of its status. Please 
notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from 
your system. Please do not copy it or use it for any purposes, or disclose its 
contents to any other person. This email comes from a division of the Invensys 
Group, owned by Invensys plc, which is a company registered in England and 
Wales with its registered office at 3rd Floor, 40 Grosvenor Place, London, SW1X 
7AW (Registered number 166023). For a list of European legal entities within 
the Invensys Group, please select the Legal Entities link at invensys.com.


You may contact Invensys plc on +44 (0)20 3155 1200 or e-mail reception at 
invensys.com. This e-mail and any attachments thereto may be subject to the 
terms of any agreements between Invensys (and/or its subsidiaries and 
affiliates) and the recipient (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates).

RE: CMY data in PDF for JPEGs [do have workaround, but just)

[Davis, David]

Fair enough, Steve.
Although in all seriousness, I wonder is it worth trying some other 
print-houses?
The one you're using seems to think it's still 1983 :) 

-Original Message-
From: Steve Rickaby [mailto:srick...@wordmongers.demon.co.uk] 
Sent: 13 December 2013 16:18
To: Davis, David; framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: CMY data in PDF for JPEGs [do have workaround, but just)

At 02:55 -0600 13/12/13, Davis, David wrote:

>Not wanting to be contrary here, but why does the PDF have to be only 
>grayscale, just because it's going to be printed in black and white? Surely 
>the printer driver should be perfectly capable of making intelligent decisions 
>about converting the colours to grey.

Apparently not - I've tried it.

>(And, indeed, it will make better decisions than you can earlier in the chain, 
>cos it will know more about the output device).

Actually, for all the book's I've sent to press, I've known more or less 
nothing about the output device(S) - I just get a pre-press spec from the 
printers, which often takes the form of a Distiller jobspec file. However, I do 
know a range of things that must not be in the pre-press file, such as 
hairlines. And color ;-)

>I mean, for instance, any domestic or office printer in existence will happily 
>print in greyscale if you feed it a colour file (there's usually a checkbox 
>somewhere in the print dialog). I'm sure most of us do and see this every day. 
> I appreciate some things look better than others when neutered like this 
>(some hues of colour won't give very good contrast against each other in grey) 
>... but the remedy for that is more in choosing the colours in the first 
>place, not in some fancy 'conversion to greyscale' process. For instance I 
>can't think that green text on an orange background is ever going to be very 
>clear in greyscale, no matter what point in the chain you convert it.

Well I'm not going to argue with you, but I have a pre-press spec to work to, 
and it disallowed C, M and Y channel data.

-- 
Steve


*** Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, including any associated or attached 
files, is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is 
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If you have received it in error, you are on notice of its status. Please 
notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from 
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Group, owned by Invensys plc, which is a company registered in England and 
Wales with its registered office at 3rd Floor, 40 Grosvenor Place, London, SW1X 
7AW (Registered number 166023). For a list of European legal entities within 
the Invensys Group, please select the Legal Entities link at invensys.com.


You may contact Invensys plc on +44 (0)20 3155 1200 or e-mail 
recept...@invensys.com. This e-mail and any attachments thereto may be subject 
to the terms of any agreements between Invensys (and/or its subsidiaries and 
affiliates) and the recipient (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates).


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CMY data in PDF for JPEGs [do have workaround, but just)

[Davis, David]

Fair enough, Steve.
Although in all seriousness, I wonder is it worth trying some other 
print-houses?
The one you're using seems to think it's still 1983 :) 

-Original Message-
From: Steve Rickaby [mailto:srick...@wordmongers.demon.co.uk] 
Sent: 13 December 2013 16:18
To: Davis, David; framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: CMY data in PDF for JPEGs [do have workaround, but just)

At 02:55 -0600 13/12/13, Davis, David wrote:

>Not wanting to be contrary here, but why does the PDF have to be only 
>grayscale, just because it's going to be printed in black and white? Surely 
>the printer driver should be perfectly capable of making intelligent decisions 
>about converting the colours to grey.

Apparently not - I've tried it.

>(And, indeed, it will make better decisions than you can earlier in the chain, 
>cos it will know more about the output device).

Actually, for all the book's I've sent to press, I've known more or less 
nothing about the output device(S) - I just get a pre-press spec from the 
printers, which often takes the form of a Distiller jobspec file. However, I do 
know a range of things that must not be in the pre-press file, such as 
hairlines. And color ;-)

>I mean, for instance, any domestic or office printer in existence will happily 
>print in greyscale if you feed it a colour file (there's usually a checkbox 
>somewhere in the print dialog). I'm sure most of us do and see this every day. 
> I appreciate some things look better than others when neutered like this 
>(some hues of colour won't give very good contrast against each other in grey) 
>... but the remedy for that is more in choosing the colours in the first 
>place, not in some fancy 'conversion to greyscale' process. For instance I 
>can't think that green text on an orange background is ever going to be very 
>clear in greyscale, no matter what point in the chain you convert it.

Well I'm not going to argue with you, but I have a pre-press spec to work to, 
and it disallowed C, M and Y channel data.

-- 
Steve


*** Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, including any associated or attached 
files, is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is 
addressed. This e-mail is confidential and may well also be legally privileged. 
If you have received it in error, you are on notice of its status. Please 
notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from 
your system. Please do not copy it or use it for any purposes, or disclose its 
contents to any other person. This email comes from a division of the Invensys 
Group, owned by Invensys plc, which is a company registered in England and 
Wales with its registered office at 3rd Floor, 40 Grosvenor Place, London, SW1X 
7AW (Registered number 166023). For a list of European legal entities within 
the Invensys Group, please select the Legal Entities link at invensys.com.


You may contact Invensys plc on +44 (0)20 3155 1200 or e-mail reception at 
invensys.com. This e-mail and any attachments thereto may be subject to the 
terms of any agreements between Invensys (and/or its subsidiaries and 
affiliates) and the recipient (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates).

RE: CMY data in PDF for JPEGs [do have workaround, but just)

[Davis, David]

Not wanting to be contrary here, but why does the PDF have to be only 
grayscale, just because it's going to be printed in black and white? Surely the 
printer driver should be perfectly capable of making intelligent decisions 
about converting the colours to grey.
(And, indeed, it will make better decisions than you can earlier in the chain, 
cos it will know more about the output device).

I mean, for instance, any domestic or office printer in existence will happily 
print in greyscale if you feed it a colour file (there's usually a checkbox 
somewhere in the print dialog). I'm sure most of us do and see this every day.  
I appreciate some things look better than others when neutered like this (some 
hues of colour won't give very good contrast against each other in grey) ... 
but the remedy for that is more in choosing the colours in the first place, not 
in some fancy 'conversion to greyscale' process. For instance I can't think 
that green text on an orange background is ever going to be very clear in 
greyscale, no matter what point in the chain you convert it.

David


Message: 2
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 21:13:14 +
From: Steve Rickaby 
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: CMY data in PDF for JPEGs [do have workaround, but just
curious]
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I know I'm using up all my tokens here, but...

FrameMaker 7 -> .ps -> Distiller 6 -> PDF.

Book contains many JPEGs. Book is to be printed in grayscale, so needs to have 
no information in C, M and Y channels. JPEGs converted to 256-bit grayscale, 
using the same workflow as I've used successfully many times before. Developer 
of graphics editor (Thorsten Lemke, GraphicConverter) looks at JPEG samples and 
swears they contain no color data (and he should know - he's been developing GC 
for maybe 20 years).

JPEGs inserted into FrameMaker and output as .ps, then distilled. In the PDF, 
JPEG images have data in C, M and Y channels

Anyone have any idea how this could happen? The last time it did, I had to send 
pre-press files off to someone who had the latest Acrobat for pre-press fixup. 
Lemke says FrameMaker is putting the color in!

Setting the printer driver to output grayscale only does not fix this - 
although it does map other color such as colored text to the K channel. 

What does fix it is converting the JPEGs to TIFFs.

As my pal in Ohio is fond of saying, 'Go figure!'

-- 
Steve 


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CMY data in PDF for JPEGs [do have workaround, but just)

[Davis, David]

Not wanting to be contrary here, but why does the PDF have to be only 
grayscale, just because it's going to be printed in black and white? Surely the 
printer driver should be perfectly capable of making intelligent decisions 
about converting the colours to grey.
(And, indeed, it will make better decisions than you can earlier in the chain, 
cos it will know more about the output device).

I mean, for instance, any domestic or office printer in existence will happily 
print in greyscale if you feed it a colour file (there's usually a checkbox 
somewhere in the print dialog). I'm sure most of us do and see this every day.  
I appreciate some things look better than others when neutered like this (some 
hues of colour won't give very good contrast against each other in grey) ... 
but the remedy for that is more in choosing the colours in the first place, not 
in some fancy 'conversion to greyscale' process. For instance I can't think 
that green text on an orange background is ever going to be very clear in 
greyscale, no matter what point in the chain you convert it.

David


Message: 2
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 21:13:14 +
From: Steve Rickaby 
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: CMY data in PDF for JPEGs [do have workaround, but just
curious]
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I know I'm using up all my tokens here, but...

FrameMaker 7 -> .ps -> Distiller 6 -> PDF.

Book contains many JPEGs. Book is to be printed in grayscale, so needs to have 
no information in C, M and Y channels. JPEGs converted to 256-bit grayscale, 
using the same workflow as I've used successfully many times before. Developer 
of graphics editor (Thorsten Lemke, GraphicConverter) looks at JPEG samples and 
swears they contain no color data (and he should know - he's been developing GC 
for maybe 20 years).

JPEGs inserted into FrameMaker and output as .ps, then distilled. In the PDF, 
JPEG images have data in C, M and Y channels

Anyone have any idea how this could happen? The last time it did, I had to send 
pre-press files off to someone who had the latest Acrobat for pre-press fixup. 
Lemke says FrameMaker is putting the color in!

Setting the printer driver to output grayscale only does not fix this - 
although it does map other color such as colored text to the K channel. 

What does fix it is converting the JPEGs to TIFFs.

As my pal in Ohio is fond of saying, 'Go figure!'

-- 
Steve 


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Group, owned by Invensys plc, which is a company registered in England and 
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7AW (Registered number 166023). For a list of European legal entities within 
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affiliates) and the recipient (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates).

RE: Character Tag "As Is" setting--isn't

[Davis, David]

Cheers Matt,
Yes I totally agree with your 'bottom line' -
But surely this is a bug? The Character Designer dialog box (or "pod" as they 
seem to want to call it now) just simply isn't behaving consistently and doing 
what it says it does.
There is nothing I can see about this issue in the user docs
http://help.adobe.com/en_US/framemaker/using/WSB9594AD8-4282-4fbe-AE5A-3A3A4C9CC813.html

David


From: Matt Sullivan [mailto:m...@mattrsullivan.com]
Sent: 20 November 2013 03:58

Bottom line: Never update a character tag with your cursor in the text flow. 
Unless you like screwed up tags.





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files, is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is 
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If you have received it in error, you are on notice of its status. Please 
notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from 
your system. Please do not copy it or use it for any purposes, or disclose its 
contents to any other person. This email comes from a division of the Invensys 
Group, owned by Invensys plc, which is a company registered in England and 
Wales with its registered office at 3rd Floor, 40 Grosvenor Place, London, SW1X 
7AW (Registered number 166023). For a list of European legal entities within 
the Invensys Group, please select the Legal Entities link at invensys.com.


You may contact Invensys plc on +44 (0)20 3155 1200 or e-mail 
recept...@invensys.com. This e-mail and any attachments thereto may be subject 
to the terms of any agreements between Invensys (and/or its subsidiaries and 
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Character Tag "As Is" setting--isn't

[Davis, David]

Cheers Matt,
Yes I totally agree with your 'bottom line' -
But surely this is a bug? The Character Designer dialog box (or "pod" as they 
seem to want to call it now) just simply isn't behaving consistently and doing 
what it says it does.
There is nothing I can see about this issue in the user docs
http://help.adobe.com/en_US/framemaker/using/WSB9594AD8-4282-4fbe-AE5A-3A3A4C9CC813.html

David


From: Matt Sullivan [mailto:m...@mattrsullivan.com]
Sent: 20 November 2013 03:58

Bottom line: Never update a character tag with your cursor in the text flow. 
Unless you like screwed up tags.





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files, is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is 
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If you have received it in error, you are on notice of its status. Please 
notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from 
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Group, owned by Invensys plc, which is a company registered in England and 
Wales with its registered office at 3rd Floor, 40 Grosvenor Place, London, SW1X 
7AW (Registered number 166023). For a list of European legal entities within 
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You may contact Invensys plc on +44 (0)20 3155 1200 or e-mail reception at 
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RE: Character Tag "As Is" setting--isn't

[Davis, David]

This issue that Beverly has run into has been the bane of my life several times 
now. 
The "As Is" thing in Character Styles just doesn't work for font size if it's 
ever been applied to any existing paragraph style - instead it keeps applying 
the font size of that paragraph.
The only way I've been able to get these kind of character styles to work (i.e. 
ones which just change the font or colour of text, without changing font size) 
is to create them from scratch when the cursor isn't currently within any 
existing paragraph style - otherwise you're lumbered with the wrong font size.

David


Message: 3
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2013 17:31:04 -0500
From: Fred Ridder 
To: Beverly Robinson ,
"framers@lists.frameusers.com" 
Subject: RE: Character Tag "As Is" setting--isn't
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

You've identified one of the long-standing inconsistencies in the FrameMaker 
UI.  In the Size box of the Character Designer dialog, the "as is" state is 
indicated by emptiness. Same with Spread and Stretch. All three of these 
properties allow a continuous range of values rather than being picked from a 
finite list, and I suspect that this fact complicated the ability to explicitly 
indicate "As Is" in the box for some reason. 

If you have already applied the Hyperlink tag to anything when it had a 
specified size of 11 pt, that size is now a property of the text. It will not 
change when you redefine the character format of the tag to be "as is" because 
the "as is" size is 11 pt. If the character tag is applied within the 
cross-reference format, I believe you'll need to reinsert the cross-reference 
to get the oversize characters to revert to the underlying paragraph 
specification for your table footnote. 

-Fred Ridder 

From: beverly_robin...@datacard.com
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2013 16:05:22 -0600
Subject: Character Tag "As Is" setting--isn't

FrameMaker 10.0.2.419 on Windows 7 64-bit My template has a  character tag, 
Hyperlink, that makes text blue. The Size setting had been at 11 pt, the size 
for Body paragraphs. Recently I needed to use the tag in a cross-reference in a 
table footnote. Table footnotes are 9 pt. So I changed the Size setting to As 
Is but:? After clicking As Is, the Size control doesn?t say ?As 
Is??it?s blank.? Hyperlink text in table footnotes is larger than 9 pt. 
FrameMaker help says nothing about this anomaly and I didn?t see anything 
similar in the first 5 pages on the FrameMaker user forum. Has anyone else run 
into this? Found a solution? Thanks for your help,Beverly
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Character Tag "As Is" setting--isn't

[Davis, David]

This issue that Beverly has run into has been the bane of my life several times 
now. 
The "As Is" thing in Character Styles just doesn't work for font size if it's 
ever been applied to any existing paragraph style - instead it keeps applying 
the font size of that paragraph.
The only way I've been able to get these kind of character styles to work (i.e. 
ones which just change the font or colour of text, without changing font size) 
is to create them from scratch when the cursor isn't currently within any 
existing paragraph style - otherwise you're lumbered with the wrong font size.

David


Message: 3
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2013 17:31:04 -0500
From: Fred Ridder 
To: Beverly Robinson ,
"framers at lists.frameusers.com" 
Subject: RE: Character Tag "As Is" setting--isn't
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

You've identified one of the long-standing inconsistencies in the FrameMaker 
UI.  In the Size box of the Character Designer dialog, the "as is" state is 
indicated by emptiness. Same with Spread and Stretch. All three of these 
properties allow a continuous range of values rather than being picked from a 
finite list, and I suspect that this fact complicated the ability to explicitly 
indicate "As Is" in the box for some reason. 

If you have already applied the Hyperlink tag to anything when it had a 
specified size of 11 pt, that size is now a property of the text. It will not 
change when you redefine the character format of the tag to be "as is" because 
the "as is" size is 11 pt. If the character tag is applied within the 
cross-reference format, I believe you'll need to reinsert the cross-reference 
to get the oversize characters to revert to the underlying paragraph 
specification for your table footnote. 

-Fred Ridder 

From: beverly_robin...@datacard.com
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2013 16:05:22 -0600
Subject: Character Tag "As Is" setting--isn't

FrameMaker 10.0.2.419 on Windows 7 64-bit My template has a  character tag, 
Hyperlink, that makes text blue. The Size setting had been at 11 pt, the size 
for Body paragraphs. Recently I needed to use the tag in a cross-reference in a 
table footnote. Table footnotes are 9 pt. So I changed the Size setting to As 
Is but:? After clicking As Is, the Size control doesn?t say ?As 
Is??it?s blank.? Hyperlink text in table footnotes is larger than 9 pt. 
FrameMaker help says nothing about this anomaly and I didn?t see anything 
similar in the first 5 pages on the FrameMaker user forum. Has anyone else run 
into this? Found a solution? Thanks for your help,Beverly
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7AW (Registered number 166023). For a list of European legal entities within 
the Invensys Group, please select the Legal Entities link at invensys.com.


You may contact Invensys plc on +44 (0)20 3155 1200 or e-mail reception at 
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terms of any agreements between Invensys (and/or its subsidiaries and 
affiliates) and the recipient (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates).

RE: How to purge unwanted fonts from Reference Pages?

[Davis, David]

Ah, thanks for the tip! I hadn't actually spotted the Fonts pod yet. 
( /Grumbles/ if Adobe provided a proper printed manual these days, then I might 
be able to find these things more easily! :) )

The Fonts pod seems to have sorted things for me. 

One the downside, I found it a bit ambiguous what it was doing - I wanted to 
make sure it was changing the *paragraph styles*, not applying ad-hoc font 
overrides to everything? (As that would be crazy, right?)  but I'm 
optimistically assuming it was doing the former.

One great thing, though, was that it lists all those instances of phantom fonts 
where, obtusely, FrameMaker insists they are being "used" in the document, but, 
tellingly, the Font pod can't show any instance of where they are being used. 
(This is because they aren't, er, being used... )
It appears to be a great tool for purging this debris!

David

Message: 19
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2013 12:14:50 +
From: "Reng, Dr. Winfried" 
To: "framers@lists.frameusers.com" 
Subject: RE: How to purge unwanted fonts from Reference Pages?
Message-ID:



Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi David,

In FrameMaker 11 you can open the Fonts pod (via the View menu).
Then select the font which you have problems with and click on the
Replace icon. Select a font which you want to use instead.

Best regards

Winfried

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7AW (Registered number 166023). For a list of European legal entities within 
the Invensys Group, please select the Legal Entities link at invensys.com.


You may contact Invensys plc on +44 (0)20 3155 1200 or e-mail 
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How to purge unwanted fonts from Reference Pages?

[Davis, David]

Ah, thanks for the tip! I hadn't actually spotted the Fonts pod yet. 
( /Grumbles/ if Adobe provided a proper printed manual these days, then I might 
be able to find these things more easily! :) )

The Fonts pod seems to have sorted things for me. 

One the downside, I found it a bit ambiguous what it was doing - I wanted to 
make sure it was changing the *paragraph styles*, not applying ad-hoc font 
overrides to everything? (As that would be crazy, right?)  but I'm 
optimistically assuming it was doing the former.

One great thing, though, was that it lists all those instances of phantom fonts 
where, obtusely, FrameMaker insists they are being "used" in the document, but, 
tellingly, the Font pod can't show any instance of where they are being used. 
(This is because they aren't, er, being used... )
It appears to be a great tool for purging this debris!

David

Message: 19
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2013 12:14:50 +
From: "Reng, Dr. Winfried" 
To: "framers at lists.frameusers.com" 
Subject: RE: How to purge unwanted fonts from Reference Pages?
Message-ID:


Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi David,

In FrameMaker 11 you can open the Fonts pod (via the View menu).
Then select the font which you have problems with and click on the
Replace icon. Select a font which you want to use instead.

Best regards

Winfried

*** Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, including any associated or attached 
files, is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is 
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If you have received it in error, you are on notice of its status. Please 
notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from 
your system. Please do not copy it or use it for any purposes, or disclose its 
contents to any other person. This email comes from a division of the Invensys 
Group, owned by Invensys plc, which is a company registered in England and 
Wales with its registered office at 3rd Floor, 40 Grosvenor Place, London, SW1X 
7AW (Registered number 166023). For a list of European legal entities within 
the Invensys Group, please select the Legal Entities link at invensys.com.


You may contact Invensys plc on +44 (0)20 3155 1200 or e-mail reception at 
invensys.com. This e-mail and any attachments thereto may be subject to the 
terms of any agreements between Invensys (and/or its subsidiaries and 
affiliates) and the recipient (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates).

How to purge unwanted fonts from Reference Pages?

[Davis, David]

Folks,
I am maintaining an old legacy document that's giving me grief at the moment.
(I'm using Frame11 - I think the document was created years ago on - gasp - an 
Apple Mac).

PDF creation is failing, because I've told it to cancel the job if font 
embedding fails, and there's fonts referenced in the doc that aren't available 
on my system.

It is a real sneaky one, because even if I turn *off* "remember missing font 
names", open the doc, save, close the fonts are still there!
Turns out they're not used in any paragraph or character style in Body page 
text flow ... nor embedded in any EPS graphic...
I've tracked them down to the *reference* pages.
There's a whole bunch of "mapping tables" and other gubbins on there (I'm not 
entirely sure what they're for!), but the text in them all is Times Roman.

I've solved things like this in the past by saving as MIF, opening in WordPad, 
and manually changing the font names,
but this doesn't seem feasible here, partly because there's dozens of instances 
of the name in the MIF, and also because the name of the font and font family 
and big long strings (2 or 3 different ones) so it's not so easy to just 
globally "find and replace" them.

Any tips for dealing with this?
Is there any command in the Frame GUI than I'm missing that could clear this up?
The best solution I have at the moment is going into each chapter file's 
reference pages (there's about 10 in each) and selecting all this Time Roman 
text and manually setting it to a different font - but even that seems rather 
cumbersome.

cheers
David


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RE: Differences in screen fonts not appearing in printed or pdf

[Davis, David]

Rod, there are two or three main places where things can go wrong:

1. When you create the PDF, you need to make sure that you are embedding the 
fonts inside it. 
This is controlled by the Adobe Distiller settings - there's a check box on one 
of the dialogs that says something like "Embed all fonts and cancel the PDF 
creation if this fails".  (If you don't do this, the PDF just contains the 
*name* of the font, and when its viewed or printed on any given device, it just 
asks the device politely if that font is available). 

2. Your PDF viewer (eg. Adobe Acrobat) - there is usually a setting buried in 
there somewhere which forces it to use the fonts embedded in the PDF itself 
(rather than a font which may be installed on the PC you're viewing it on). 
Make sure that's set right. 

3. When you print your PDF onto paper, you need to make sure your printer 
driver for that printer is set to download the fonts from your computer, rather 
than just use its own fonts. (Some printers have fonts stored in their own 
local memory). There'll be a setting in the printer diver settings called 
"Download as Softfont" or something like that. Make sure that's selected.

Hopefully that should sort it.
David

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 09:09:31 +1300
From: "Rod Fee" 
To: 
Subject: Differences in screen fonts not appearing in printed or pdf
docs
Message-ID: <003401cec850$21467e90$63d37bb0$@xtra.co.nz>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi guys,

 

I have written a book, an experimental academic novel,  in Framemaker
10.0.2.419 which has three frames per page and in each I use a slightly 
different font and want to preserve that.

 

The three fonts I am using are:

 

Garamond Opentype

Adobe Garamond Pro Opentype

Bembo Truetype

 

On the screen these three fonts are clearly identifiable as different to one 
another.

 

When I:

 

a.   save to pdf and view on the screen; or

b.  print to my printer from the pdf; or

c.   print to my printer from the native FM files 

 

the difference in fonts becomes minimal to the extent that I cannot tell them 
apart.

 

I am thinking that it is not a printer driver issue because of the pdf 
experience.

 

My OS is Windows 8

My Printer is a Brother HL-2270DW series b&w laser printer 

 

Any hints/clues/advice/help would be appreciated.

 

If there is another alternative series of three fonts that are very close but 
visibly subtly different anyone can suggest I would also appreciate such advice.

 

The reason I am wanting to use different fonts is that in the final chapter of 
the work, the fonts are nixed depending on which of the three layers of 
narrative they  originate from and I want to make that clear to a discerning 
reader without making it look too varied and ruin the reading flow.

 

Kind regards,

Rod Fee

Auckland, New Zealand

rod...@xtra.co.nz

 

 

-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 


--

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 11:31:48 -0500
From: Scott Turner 
To: Rod Fee 
Cc: "" 
Subject: Re: Differences in screen fonts not appearing in printed or
pdf docs
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Interesting problem. 

The use of two Garamond fonts from different found arises will no necessarily 
produce discernibly different characters. A totally different don't family 
should be used instead of two Garamond fonts.

I have noticed that on Windows, font representation accuracy diminishes when 
viewing at less than 100%. I've noted that characters lose definition unless 
viewed at 120% magnification. 

That seems to be part and parcel of the Windows font management code under high 
resolution screen viewing.

Scott T.

> On Oct 13, 2013, at 15:09, "Rod Fee"  wrote:
> 
> Hi guys,
>  
> I have written a book, an experimental academic novel,  in Framemaker 
> 10.0.2.419 which has three frames per page and in each I use a slightly 
> different font and want to preserve that.
>  
> The three fonts I am using are:
>  
> Garamond Opentype
> Adobe Garamond Pro Opentype
> Bembo Truetype
>  
> On the screen these three fonts are clearly identifiable as different to one 
> another.
>  
> When I:
>  
> a.   save to pdf and view on the screen; or
> b.  print to my printer from the pdf; or
> c.   print to my printer from the native FM files
>  
> the difference in fonts becomes minimal to the extent that I cannot tell them 
> apart.
>  
> I am thinking that it is not a printer driver issue because of the pdf 
> experience.
>  
> My OS is Windows 8
> My Printer is a Brother HL-2270DW series b&w laser printer
>  
> Any hints/clues/advice/help would be appreciated.
>  
> If there is another alternative series of three fonts that are very close but 
> visibly subtly different anyone can suggest I would also appreciate such 
> advice

How to purge unwanted fonts from Reference Pages?

[Davis, David]

Folks,
I am maintaining an old legacy document that's giving me grief at the moment.
(I'm using Frame11 - I think the document was created years ago on - gasp - an 
Apple Mac).

PDF creation is failing, because I've told it to cancel the job if font 
embedding fails, and there's fonts referenced in the doc that aren't available 
on my system.

It is a real sneaky one, because even if I turn *off* "remember missing font 
names", open the doc, save, close the fonts are still there!
Turns out they're not used in any paragraph or character style in Body page 
text flow ... nor embedded in any EPS graphic...
I've tracked them down to the *reference* pages.
There's a whole bunch of "mapping tables" and other gubbins on there (I'm not 
entirely sure what they're for!), but the text in them all is Times Roman.

I've solved things like this in the past by saving as MIF, opening in WordPad, 
and manually changing the font names,
but this doesn't seem feasible here, partly because there's dozens of instances 
of the name in the MIF, and also because the name of the font and font family 
and big long strings (2 or 3 different ones) so it's not so easy to just 
globally "find and replace" them.

Any tips for dealing with this?
Is there any command in the Frame GUI than I'm missing that could clear this up?
The best solution I have at the moment is going into each chapter file's 
reference pages (there's about 10 in each) and selecting all this Time Roman 
text and manually setting it to a different font - but even that seems rather 
cumbersome.

cheers
David


*** Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, including any associated or attached 
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If you have received it in error, you are on notice of its status. Please 
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-- next part --
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Differences in screen fonts not appearing in printed or pdf

[Davis, David]

Rod, there are two or three main places where things can go wrong:

1. When you create the PDF, you need to make sure that you are embedding the 
fonts inside it. 
This is controlled by the Adobe Distiller settings - there's a check box on one 
of the dialogs that says something like "Embed all fonts and cancel the PDF 
creation if this fails".  (If you don't do this, the PDF just contains the 
*name* of the font, and when its viewed or printed on any given device, it just 
asks the device politely if that font is available). 

2. Your PDF viewer (eg. Adobe Acrobat) - there is usually a setting buried in 
there somewhere which forces it to use the fonts embedded in the PDF itself 
(rather than a font which may be installed on the PC you're viewing it on). 
Make sure that's set right. 

3. When you print your PDF onto paper, you need to make sure your printer 
driver for that printer is set to download the fonts from your computer, rather 
than just use its own fonts. (Some printers have fonts stored in their own 
local memory). There'll be a setting in the printer diver settings called 
"Download as Softfont" or something like that. Make sure that's selected.

Hopefully that should sort it.
David

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 09:09:31 +1300
From: "Rod Fee" 
To: 
Subject: Differences in screen fonts not appearing in printed or pdf
docs
Message-ID: <003401cec850$21467e90$63d37bb0$@xtra.co.nz>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi guys,



I have written a book, an experimental academic novel,  in Framemaker
10.0.2.419 which has three frames per page and in each I use a slightly 
different font and want to preserve that.



The three fonts I am using are:



Garamond Opentype

Adobe Garamond Pro Opentype

Bembo Truetype



On the screen these three fonts are clearly identifiable as different to one 
another.



When I:



a.   save to pdf and view on the screen; or

b.  print to my printer from the pdf; or

c.   print to my printer from the native FM files 



the difference in fonts becomes minimal to the extent that I cannot tell them 
apart.



I am thinking that it is not a printer driver issue because of the pdf 
experience.



My OS is Windows 8

My Printer is a Brother HL-2270DW series b&w laser printer 



Any hints/clues/advice/help would be appreciated.



If there is another alternative series of three fonts that are very close but 
visibly subtly different anyone can suggest I would also appreciate such advice.



The reason I am wanting to use different fonts is that in the final chapter of 
the work, the fonts are nixed depending on which of the three layers of 
narrative they  originate from and I want to make that clear to a discerning 
reader without making it look too varied and ruin the reading flow.



Kind regards,

Rod Fee

Auckland, New Zealand

rodfee at xtra.co.nz





-- next part --
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 


--

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 11:31:48 -0500
From: Scott Turner 
To: Rod Fee 
Cc: "" 
Subject: Re: Differences in screen fonts not appearing in printed or
pdf docs
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Interesting problem. 

The use of two Garamond fonts from different found arises will no necessarily 
produce discernibly different characters. A totally different don't family 
should be used instead of two Garamond fonts.

I have noticed that on Windows, font representation accuracy diminishes when 
viewing at less than 100%. I've noted that characters lose definition unless 
viewed at 120% magnification. 

That seems to be part and parcel of the Windows font management code under high 
resolution screen viewing.

Scott T.

> On Oct 13, 2013, at 15:09, "Rod Fee"  wrote:
> 
> Hi guys,
>  
> I have written a book, an experimental academic novel,  in Framemaker 
> 10.0.2.419 which has three frames per page and in each I use a slightly 
> different font and want to preserve that.
>  
> The three fonts I am using are:
>  
> Garamond Opentype
> Adobe Garamond Pro Opentype
> Bembo Truetype
>  
> On the screen these three fonts are clearly identifiable as different to one 
> another.
>  
> When I:
>  
> a.   save to pdf and view on the screen; or
> b.  print to my printer from the pdf; or
> c.   print to my printer from the native FM files
>  
> the difference in fonts becomes minimal to the extent that I cannot tell them 
> apart.
>  
> I am thinking that it is not a printer driver issue because of the pdf 
> experience.
>  
> My OS is Windows 8
> My Printer is a Brother HL-2270DW series b&w laser printer
>  
> Any hints/clues/advice/help would be appreciated.
>  
> If there is another alternative series of three fonts that are very close but 
> visibly subtly different anyone can suggest I would also appreciate such 
> advice.
>  
> The 

ARRGH - why does the Import command still do this to me....?!?

[Davis, David]

Folks,
Today I had something happen which has happened to me in the past... and I'm 
wondering if by moaning about it to the list, I can stop it ever ever happening 
again :)

Basically, after tweaking a paragraph format in one of my chapters,
I selected all the chapter files in my book, did File > Import, making sure I 
selected the right "Import From..." file,
and imported my tweaked paragraph format throughout the book...

...only to be heard wailing and gnashing my teeth moments later, when it turned 
out that loads of my *other* paragraph formats had now been over-written with 
ancient versions that I thought I'd fixed days ago! /sighs/


The thing is, I'm completely baffled as to how this happened.
Earlier in the week, I'd carefully tweaked those formats, and imported them 
throughout the whole book.. but it seems they were still lurking in the 
chapter I tweaked today, and so now they're back!
How can this be? I had all the chapter files open when I did the imports, I 
saved them all afterwards! I didn't see any error messages.

This is by no means the first time this has happened to me over the years.
Anyone have any suggestions as to the cause?
I wondered if it was something to do with a format being in the catalogue, but 
not actually having any instances of itself in use on a body page...


A related problem is with character formats that have certain fields set to "As 
Is".
I find that this doesn't work properly for Font Size.
Say for example, I decide to tweak an existing character style in one chapter 
file, for instance to make hyperlinks blue... and I save it as a new style 
called Hyperlink. I have Font Size set to "As Is" (but the text I was editing 
was 8 point) .
I insert that character style into the definition for a Cross Ref format, so 
all those cross refs are blue throughout my book
.when I import these character & Cross Ref styles throughout the book, 
Hyperlink  doesn't come in as "As Is", it is resolutely set to 8pt. Thus all my 
cross refs shrink to 8pt text. Arrrgh!

I find the only way to avoid this is to create a new character style from 
scratch, without the cursor over any current text, and never touch the Font 
Size drop down, just leave it blank That way it really does work as "As Is".
Anyone else seen this behaviour?

Regards,

David


*** Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, including any associated or attached 
files, is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is 
addressed. This e-mail is confidential and may well also be legally privileged. 
If you have received it in error, you are on notice of its status. Please 
notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from 
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Group, owned by Invensys plc, which is a company registered in England and 
Wales with its registered office at 3rd Floor, 40 Grosvenor Place, London, SW1X 
7AW (Registered number 166023). For a list of European legal entities within 
the Invensys Group, please select the Legal Entities link at invensys.com.


You may contact Invensys plc on +44 (0)20 3155 1200 or e-mail 
recept...@invensys.com. This e-mail and any attachments thereto may be subject 
to the terms of any agreements between Invensys (and/or its subsidiaries and 
affiliates) and the recipient (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates).

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ARRGH - why does the Import command still do this to me....?!?

[Davis, David]

Folks,
Today I had something happen which has happened to me in the past... and I'm 
wondering if by moaning about it to the list, I can stop it ever ever happening 
again :)

Basically, after tweaking a paragraph format in one of my chapters,
I selected all the chapter files in my book, did File > Import, making sure I 
selected the right "Import From..." file,
and imported my tweaked paragraph format throughout the book...

...only to be heard wailing and gnashing my teeth moments later, when it turned 
out that loads of my *other* paragraph formats had now been over-written with 
ancient versions that I thought I'd fixed days ago! /sighs/


The thing is, I'm completely baffled as to how this happened.
Earlier in the week, I'd carefully tweaked those formats, and imported them 
throughout the whole book.. but it seems they were still lurking in the 
chapter I tweaked today, and so now they're back!
How can this be? I had all the chapter files open when I did the imports, I 
saved them all afterwards! I didn't see any error messages.

This is by no means the first time this has happened to me over the years.
Anyone have any suggestions as to the cause?
I wondered if it was something to do with a format being in the catalogue, but 
not actually having any instances of itself in use on a body page...


A related problem is with character formats that have certain fields set to "As 
Is".
I find that this doesn't work properly for Font Size.
Say for example, I decide to tweak an existing character style in one chapter 
file, for instance to make hyperlinks blue... and I save it as a new style 
called Hyperlink. I have Font Size set to "As Is" (but the text I was editing 
was 8 point) .
I insert that character style into the definition for a Cross Ref format, so 
all those cross refs are blue throughout my book
.when I import these character & Cross Ref styles throughout the book, 
Hyperlink  doesn't come in as "As Is", it is resolutely set to 8pt. Thus all my 
cross refs shrink to 8pt text. Arrrgh!

I find the only way to avoid this is to create a new character style from 
scratch, without the cursor over any current text, and never touch the Font 
Size drop down, just leave it blank That way it really does work as "As Is".
Anyone else seen this behaviour?

Regards,

David


*** Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, including any associated or attached 
files, is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is 
addressed. This e-mail is confidential and may well also be legally privileged. 
If you have received it in error, you are on notice of its status. Please 
notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from 
your system. Please do not copy it or use it for any purposes, or disclose its 
contents to any other person. This email comes from a division of the Invensys 
Group, owned by Invensys plc, which is a company registered in England and 
Wales with its registered office at 3rd Floor, 40 Grosvenor Place, London, SW1X 
7AW (Registered number 166023). For a list of European legal entities within 
the Invensys Group, please select the Legal Entities link at invensys.com.


You may contact Invensys plc on +44 (0)20 3155 1200 or e-mail reception at 
invensys.com. This e-mail and any attachments thereto may be subject to the 
terms of any agreements between Invensys (and/or its subsidiaries and 
affiliates) and the recipient (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates).

-- next part --
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The Adobe credit card issue may indeed be a major issue -

[Davis, David]

The problem is that the US untelligence services with their "NSA" programme 
have developed ways to hack any encryption, and have obliged companies like 
Adobe to build 'back doors' into their systems to enable surveillance snooping.
You may be surprised and flabbergasted at that, but once you come to terms with 
it, you will not be surprised that details of these things eventually leak, and 
get exploited by criminals. 

Indeed, we should probably be more alarmed that these hackers apparently stole 
the Adobe Acrobat source code than any credit card details they may have 
obtained. 
You can be sure that the source will be scrutinised and exploited for whatever 
security vulnerabilities they can find in Acrobat and/or the PDF format.

David 


Message: 18
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2013 16:14:49 -0700
From: "Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net)"

To: "Robert Lauriston" ,
"framers at lists.frameusers.com Forum" 
Subject: RE: The Adobe credit card issue may indeed be a major issue -
PLEASE READ - URGENT
Message-ID:


Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Robert Lauriston wrote:
> The credit card numbers in the hacked Adobe data were encrypted, so that was 
> probably stolen some other way.

> http://krebsonsecurity.com/2013/10/adobe-to-announce-source-code-customer-data-breach

That totally depends on how good the encryption was. And, we do not know that - 
given the expertise of decryption techniques, this would not be a good thing to 
rely on.

Here is what Adobe is saying in their FAQ:

Should customers cancel their credit cards?

Adobe has notified the banks processing customer payments for Adobe, so that 
they can work with the payment card companies and card-issuing banks to help 
protect customers' accounts.

We are also in the process of notifying customers whose credit or debit card 
information we believe to be involved in the incident. Customers whose credit 
or debit card information was involved will receive a notification letter from 
us with additional information on steps they can take to help protect 
themselves against potential misuse of personal information about them.

U.S. only: Adobe is also offering customers, whose credit or debit card 
information was involved, the option of enrolling in a one-year complimentary 
credit monitoring membership.

We also recommend that customers monitor their account for incidents of fraud 
and identity theft, including regularly reviewing your account statements and 
monitoring free credit reports. If customers discover any suspicious or unusual 
activity on their account or suspect identity theft or fraud, they should 
report it immediately to their financial institution.

U.S. only: In addition, customers may contact the Federal Trade Commission 
(FTC) or law enforcement to report incidents of identity theft or to learn 
about steps they can take to protect themselves from identity theft. To learn 
more, customers can go to the FTC's website, at www.consumer.gov/idtheft, call 
the FTC at (877) IDTHEFT (438-4338), or write to Federal Trade Commission, 
Consumer Response Center, 600 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW, Washington, DC 20580.



--


*** Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, including any associated or attached 
files, is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is 
addressed. This e-mail is confidential and may well also be legally privileged. 
If you have received it in error, you are on notice of its status. Please 
notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from 
your system. Please do not copy it or use it for any purposes, or disclose its 
contents to any other person. This email comes from a division of the Invensys 
Group, owned by Invensys plc, which is a company registered in England and 
Wales with its registered office at 3rd Floor, 40 Grosvenor Place, London, SW1X 
7AW (Registered number 166023). For a list of European legal entities within 
the Invensys Group, please select the Legal Entities link at invensys.com.


You may contact Invensys plc on +44 (0)20 3155 1200 or e-mail reception at 
invensys.com. This e-mail and any attachments thereto may be subject to the 
terms of any agreements between Invensys (and/or its subsidiaries and 
affiliates) and the recipient (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates).

Re: The Adobe credit card issue may indeed be a major issue -

[Davis, David]

The problem is that the US untelligence services with their "NSA" programme 
have developed ways to hack any encryption, and have obliged companies like 
Adobe to build 'back doors' into their systems to enable surveillance snooping.
You may be surprised and flabbergasted at that, but once you come to terms with 
it, you will not be surprised that details of these things eventually leak, and 
get exploited by criminals. 

Indeed, we should probably be more alarmed that these hackers apparently stole 
the Adobe Acrobat source code than any credit card details they may have 
obtained. 
You can be sure that the source will be scrutinised and exploited for whatever 
security vulnerabilities they can find in Acrobat and/or the PDF format.

David 


Message: 18
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2013 16:14:49 -0700
From: "Syed Zaeem Hosain (syed.hos...@aeris.net)"

To: "Robert Lauriston" ,
"framers@lists.frameusers.com Forum" 
Subject: RE: The Adobe credit card issue may indeed be a major issue -
PLEASE READ - URGENT
Message-ID:



Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Robert Lauriston wrote:
> The credit card numbers in the hacked Adobe data were encrypted, so that was 
> probably stolen some other way.

> http://krebsonsecurity.com/2013/10/adobe-to-announce-source-code-customer-data-breach

That totally depends on how good the encryption was. And, we do not know that - 
given the expertise of decryption techniques, this would not be a good thing to 
rely on.

Here is what Adobe is saying in their FAQ:

Should customers cancel their credit cards?

Adobe has notified the banks processing customer payments for Adobe, so that 
they can work with the payment card companies and card-issuing banks to help 
protect customers' accounts.

We are also in the process of notifying customers whose credit or debit card 
information we believe to be involved in the incident. Customers whose credit 
or debit card information was involved will receive a notification letter from 
us with additional information on steps they can take to help protect 
themselves against potential misuse of personal information about them.

U.S. only: Adobe is also offering customers, whose credit or debit card 
information was involved, the option of enrolling in a one-year complimentary 
credit monitoring membership.

We also recommend that customers monitor their account for incidents of fraud 
and identity theft, including regularly reviewing your account statements and 
monitoring free credit reports. If customers discover any suspicious or unusual 
activity on their account or suspect identity theft or fraud, they should 
report it immediately to their financial institution.

U.S. only: In addition, customers may contact the Federal Trade Commission 
(FTC) or law enforcement to report incidents of identity theft or to learn 
about steps they can take to protect themselves from identity theft. To learn 
more, customers can go to the FTC's website, at www.consumer.gov/idtheft, call 
the FTC at (877) IDTHEFT (438-4338), or write to Federal Trade Commission, 
Consumer Response Center, 600 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW, Washington, DC 20580.



--


*** Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, including any associated or attached 
files, is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is 
addressed. This e-mail is confidential and may well also be legally privileged. 
If you have received it in error, you are on notice of its status. Please 
notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from 
your system. Please do not copy it or use it for any purposes, or disclose its 
contents to any other person. This email comes from a division of the Invensys 
Group, owned by Invensys plc, which is a company registered in England and 
Wales with its registered office at 3rd Floor, 40 Grosvenor Place, London, SW1X 
7AW (Registered number 166023). For a list of European legal entities within 
the Invensys Group, please select the Legal Entities link at invensys.com.


You may contact Invensys plc on +44 (0)20 3155 1200 or e-mail 
recept...@invensys.com. This e-mail and any attachments thereto may be subject 
to the terms of any agreements between Invensys (and/or its subsidiaries and 
affiliates) and the recipient (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates).


___


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Re: The Adobe credit card issue may indeed be a major issue -

[Davis, David]

Alan, 
don't forget that if it's a *credit* card, 
Then it's the bank's money, they're lending it to you ;) 
Whether this makes you feel better or not I don't know :)


   1. Re: The Adobe credit card issue may indeed be a major issue -
  PLEASEREAD - URGENT (Alan Litchfield)
From: Alan Litchfield 
It is just that kind of harm I was talking about and weak protestations 
from some does not thing to reduce the effect of criminals who have been 
provided with the means for gaining access to *our money*. 


*** Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, including any associated or attached 
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Re: Adobe was hacked

[Davis, David]

I tend to agree with Robert - 
If someone steals your cash, it's gone. 

If someone makes a fraudulent transaction on your card, you just report it and 
the card issuer refunds it. 
It's a slight administrative nuisance, but it doesn't cost you anything.
All you have to do is check your card statement each month for anything you 
don't recognise.

David


Message: 10
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2013 16:42:07 -0700
From: Robert Lauriston 
To: "framers@lists.frameusers.com Forum"

Subject: Re: Adobe was hacked
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

What different mechanisms? Except for TurboTax at Costco, I've been buying all 
my software online for over ten years. Most of it's not available through other 
channels.

Credit card fraud's annoying since I have to get a new card and number two or 
three times a year, but online purchases are less of a risk than a restaurant 
or dry cleaner.

This reminds me of the arguments people born in the 1920s make against using 
ATM machines.

On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 3:46 PM, Alan T Litchfield  wrote:
> The increased threat is the adoption of subscription payments where 
> previously different mechanisms were used to pay for this stuff. Now, 
> much is online and therefore vulnerable.


--

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. Re: Adobe was hacked

[Davis, David]

I got an email from Adobe to say I'd been hacked. 
"Good thing I don't use the same password for nearly all my online accounts, 
then!" I thought. Ahem :)


David

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The Adobe credit card issue may indeed be a major issue -

[Davis, David]

Alan, 
don't forget that if it's a *credit* card, 
Then it's the bank's money, they're lending it to you ;) 
Whether this makes you feel better or not I don't know :)


   1. Re: The Adobe credit card issue may indeed be a major issue -
  PLEASEREAD - URGENT (Alan Litchfield)
From: Alan Litchfield 
It is just that kind of harm I was talking about and weak protestations 
from some does not thing to reduce the effect of criminals who have been 
provided with the means for gaining access to *our money*. 


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Adobe was hacked

[Davis, David]

I tend to agree with Robert - 
If someone steals your cash, it's gone. 

If someone makes a fraudulent transaction on your card, you just report it and 
the card issuer refunds it. 
It's a slight administrative nuisance, but it doesn't cost you anything.
All you have to do is check your card statement each month for anything you 
don't recognise.

David


Message: 10
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2013 16:42:07 -0700
From: Robert Lauriston 
To: "framers at lists.frameusers.com Forum"

Subject: Re: Adobe was hacked
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

What different mechanisms? Except for TurboTax at Costco, I've been buying all 
my software online for over ten years. Most of it's not available through other 
channels.

Credit card fraud's annoying since I have to get a new card and number two or 
three times a year, but online purchases are less of a risk than a restaurant 
or dry cleaner.

This reminds me of the arguments people born in the 1920s make against using 
ATM machines.

On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 3:46 PM, Alan T Litchfield  
wrote:
> The increased threat is the adoption of subscription payments where 
> previously different mechanisms were used to pay for this stuff. Now, 
> much is online and therefore vulnerable.


--

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. Re: Adobe was hacked

[Davis, David]

I got an email from Adobe to say I'd been hacked. 
"Good thing I don't use the same password for nearly all my online accounts, 
then!" I thought. Ahem :)


David

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. RE: Why we love Adobe Tech Support..

[Davis, David]

Ian is almost certainly correct - the poor guy was probably trying to correct 
himself for misspelling "you".

Unfortunately it looked as if he was speaking' jive, yo,  ... and then closing 
with a bleeped-out expletive. 

Hilarious, in fact - I almost spat out my tea over my monitor :)  

I strongly suggest that transcript be archived somewhere in an interweb Hall of 
Funnies. :)

David


Message: 10
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 05:37:28 +
From: "Saunders, Ian" 
To: "tcs-us...@googlegroups.com" , Bethany
Lee 
Cc: FrameUsers List , Free Framers

Subject: RE: [TCS Users] Re: Why we love Adobe Tech Support...
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Am I missing something?

I am assuming the asterisk is not your edit of a rude word.

If so, the whole ?*you? business arose because Pete misspelled it as ?yo? in 
the previous chat line. He was correcting it.

Regards

Ian


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*Subject:* Why we love Adobe Tech Support...****

[Davis, David]

I think it's - well, not perhaps "fair enough" that people are "super-rude" to 
customer service "chat" staff, 
but it's completely natural and understandable:

As well as having all the normal non-verbal human communications cues stripped 
out, 
It also features:
- usually some obviously fake picture of a cheery airbrush-face model who's 
meant to be the person you're talking to. But isn't. So you immediately get the 
vibe of "I'm being lied to"
- it's usually very SLOW, which gives you the non-verbal cue that you're 
talking to a person whose brain is also very SLOW
- they usually talk to you using pre-scripted phrases, which gives instant 
impressions of insincerity, artificiality, fake-ness, 'spin', etc

So that naturally gets people's backs up.

David

On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 3:28 PM, Bethany Lee wrote:

>  I want to know what happened after this. Did he transfer you or hang up
> on you? I think if I were Pete, and you said, ?Do I have a choice?? I would
> have said, ?yeah, you can wait while I transfer you or you can quit this
> chat. It?s your choice. ? J 
>
> I think people doing chat help get a lot of crap from users of chat help.
> It?s super easy to be rude to people who are on chat help and I bet they
> experience a lot of that every day. I think it takes a steel exterior to be
> able to do customer service of any kind, and chat service even more so.
> Maybe Pete doesn?t have that steel exterior or maybe he?s just been doing
> it too long and he needs a change of job.
>


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RE: Windows 7 + FrameMaker 11 = BOOM!

[Davis, David]

Well, you're getting into the details of how the operating system works. It's 
best to try and look up the facts about this kind of thing rather than make 
guesses and reasonable assumptions (as computers are not always reasonable ;)

Try http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WoW64 and 
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa384249(VS.85).aspx for starters.
A cursory read of that tends to suggest that the WoW subsystem provides a 
(collective?) virtual 32-bit memory space for the applications running on it...
This is a pretty sophisticated functionality to provide memory management.
One might expect that one of its features is not "applications will crash 
regularly if there isn't at least 8GB available", as this would be a serious 
bug.
Your mileage may vary.


Regards,

David Davis
Technical Author


From: Shmuel Wolfson [mailto:shmue...@gmail.com]
Sent: 14 August 2013 08:18
To: Fred Ridder
Cc: Davis, David; framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: Windows 7 + FrameMaker 11 = BOOM!

4 GB of RAM may be of no use to FrameMaker if it's the only application open, 
but if you have other applications open and you only have 4 GB, wouldn't those 
other application be competing for the same 4 GB? In which case, if you have 8 
GB you are better off.



Regards,

Shmuel Wolfson

Technical Writer

052-763-7133

On 13-Aug-13 5:26 PM, Fred Ridder wrote:
You seem to have missed my point completely.

The purpose of my posting was to refute the categorical statement made by 
another poster that "More than 4 GB of RAM is of absolutely no use for running 
a 32-bit application, whether it be on a 32-bit or 64-bit operating system."

Of course it is true that one of the most basic functions of an OS is memory 
management. I said nothing that disagrees with that.

-Fred Ridder
> From: david.da...@invensys.com<mailto:david.da...@invensys.com>
> To: framers@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com>
> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 04:29:32 -0500
> Subject: RE: Windows 7 + FrameMaker 11 = BOOM!
>
> Fred, one of the most basic functions of an operating system is to be able to 
> manage memory (without crashing!) :)
> Simply because applications might all want more memory on the go at one time 
> than is physically available, should not mean that anything crashes! It gets 
> paged in and out. Windows 7, indeed, has more robust sandboxing of memory 
> usage between apps than Windows XP.
> The idea that "you gotta have 8GB of RAM otherwise Frame will crash" is a bit 
> sweeping!
> David
>
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 14:37:29 -0400
> From: Fred Ridder <mailto:docu...@hotmail.com>
> To: Helen Borrie <mailto:hele...@iinet.net.au>,
> "framers@lists.frameusers.com"<mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com> 
> <mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com>
> Subject: RE: Windows 7 + FrameMaker 11 = BOOM!
> Message-ID: 
> <mailto:bay171-w98706b7f8ec1559036865cba...@phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> But the application is not the only thing using memory. Even if a 32-bit 
> application can only address 4 GB, any additional installed memory can still 
> be used by the OS and by other processes if a 64-bit OS is being used. Having 
> more than 4 GB means that a 32-bit application will have a lot less 
> contention for memory resources even if it can only access 1/2 or 1/3 of the 
> total memory available to the OS.
>
> -Fred Ridder
>
> > Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2013 06:23:55 +1200
> > To: framers@lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers@lists.frameusers.com>
> > From: hele...@iinet.net.au<mailto:hele...@iinet.net.au>
> > Subject: RE: Windows 7 + FrameMaker 11 = BOOM!
> >
> > At 01:32 a.m. 10/08/2013, Rick Quatro wrote:
> > >
> > >Otherwise, make sure the writers have plenty of RAM. In my opinion, 8 GB 
> > >is the minimum. This may help with the performance problems.
> > >
> >
> > More than 4 GB of RAM is of absolutely no use for running a 32-bit 
> > application, whether it be on a 32-bit or 64-bit operating system.
> >
> > Helen
>
>
>
>
> *** Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, including any associated or attached 
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> addressed. This e-mail is confidential and may well also be legally 
> privileged. If you have received it in error, you are on notice of its 
> status. Please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and then delete 
> this message from your system. Please do not copy it or use it for any 
> purposes, or disclose its contents to any other person. This email comes from 
> a division of the Invensys Group, owned by Invensys plc, which is a company 
> registered i

. RE: Why we love Adobe Tech Support..

[Davis, David]

Ian is almost certainly correct - the poor guy was probably trying to correct 
himself for misspelling "you".

Unfortunately it looked as if he was speaking' jive, yo,  ... and then closing 
with a bleeped-out expletive. 

Hilarious, in fact - I almost spat out my tea over my monitor :)  

I strongly suggest that transcript be archived somewhere in an interweb Hall of 
Funnies. :)

David


Message: 10
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 05:37:28 +
From: "Saunders, Ian" 
To: "TCS-Users at googlegroups.com" , Bethany
Lee 
Cc: FrameUsers List ,  Free Framers

Subject: RE: [TCS Users] Re: Why we love Adobe Tech Support...
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Am I missing something?

I am assuming the asterisk is not your edit of a rude word.

If so, the whole ?*you? business arose because Pete misspelled it as ?yo? in 
the previous chat line. He was correcting it.

Regards

Ian


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affiliates) and the recipient (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates).

*Subject:* Why we love Adobe Tech Support...****

[Davis, David]

I think it's - well, not perhaps "fair enough" that people are "super-rude" to 
customer service "chat" staff, 
but it's completely natural and understandable:

As well as having all the normal non-verbal human communications cues stripped 
out, 
It also features:
- usually some obviously fake picture of a cheery airbrush-face model who's 
meant to be the person you're talking to. But isn't. So you immediately get the 
vibe of "I'm being lied to"
- it's usually very SLOW, which gives you the non-verbal cue that you're 
talking to a person whose brain is also very SLOW
- they usually talk to you using pre-scripted phrases, which gives instant 
impressions of insincerity, artificiality, fake-ness, 'spin', etc

So that naturally gets people's backs up.

David

On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 3:28 PM, Bethany Lee wrote:

>  I want to know what happened after this. Did he transfer you or hang up
> on you? I think if I were Pete, and you said, ?Do I have a choice?? I would
> have said, ?yeah, you can wait while I transfer you or you can quit this
> chat. It?s your choice. ? J 
>
> I think people doing chat help get a lot of crap from users of chat help.
> It?s super easy to be rude to people who are on chat help and I bet they
> experience a lot of that every day. I think it takes a steel exterior to be
> able to do customer service of any kind, and chat service even more so.
> Maybe Pete doesn?t have that steel exterior or maybe he?s just been doing
> it too long and he needs a change of job.
>


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7AW (Registered number 166023). For a list of European legal entities within 
the Invensys Group, please select the Legal Entities link at invensys.com.


You may contact Invensys plc on +44 (0)20 3155 1200 or e-mail reception at 
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terms of any agreements between Invensys (and/or its subsidiaries and 
affiliates) and the recipient (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates).

Windows 7 + FrameMaker 11 = BOOM!

[Davis, David]

Well, you're getting into the details of how the operating system works. It's 
best to try and look up the facts about this kind of thing rather than make 
guesses and reasonable assumptions (as computers are not always reasonable ;)

Try http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WoW64 and 
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa384249(VS.85).aspx for starters.
A cursory read of that tends to suggest that the WoW subsystem provides a 
(collective?) virtual 32-bit memory space for the applications running on it...
This is a pretty sophisticated functionality to provide memory management.
One might expect that one of its features is not "applications will crash 
regularly if there isn't at least 8GB available", as this would be a serious 
bug.
Your mileage may vary.


Regards,

David Davis
Technical Author


From: Shmuel Wolfson [mailto:shmue...@gmail.com]
Sent: 14 August 2013 08:18
To: Fred Ridder
Cc: Davis, David; framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: Windows 7 + FrameMaker 11 = BOOM!

4 GB of RAM may be of no use to FrameMaker if it's the only application open, 
but if you have other applications open and you only have 4 GB, wouldn't those 
other application be competing for the same 4 GB? In which case, if you have 8 
GB you are better off.



Regards,

Shmuel Wolfson

Technical Writer

052-763-7133

On 13-Aug-13 5:26 PM, Fred Ridder wrote:
You seem to have missed my point completely.

The purpose of my posting was to refute the categorical statement made by 
another poster that "More than 4 GB of RAM is of absolutely no use for running 
a 32-bit application, whether it be on a 32-bit or 64-bit operating system."

Of course it is true that one of the most basic functions of an OS is memory 
management. I said nothing that disagrees with that.

-Fred Ridder
> From: David.Davis at invensys.com<mailto:David.Davis at invensys.com>
> To: framers at lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers at lists.frameusers.com>
> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 04:29:32 -0500
> Subject: RE: Windows 7 + FrameMaker 11 = BOOM!
>
> Fred, one of the most basic functions of an operating system is to be able to 
> manage memory (without crashing!) :)
> Simply because applications might all want more memory on the go at one time 
> than is physically available, should not mean that anything crashes! It gets 
> paged in and out. Windows 7, indeed, has more robust sandboxing of memory 
> usage between apps than Windows XP.
> The idea that "you gotta have 8GB of RAM otherwise Frame will crash" is a bit 
> sweeping!
> David
>
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 14:37:29 -0400
> From: Fred Ridder <mailto:docudoc at hotmail.com>
> To: Helen Borrie <mailto:helebor at iinet.net.au>,
> "framers at lists.frameusers.com"<mailto:framers at lists.frameusers.com> 
> <mailto:framers at lists.frameusers.com>
> Subject: RE: Windows 7 + FrameMaker 11 = BOOM!
> Message-ID:  phx.gbl><mailto:BAY171-W98706B7F8EC1559036865CBA580 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> But the application is not the only thing using memory. Even if a 32-bit 
> application can only address 4 GB, any additional installed memory can still 
> be used by the OS and by other processes if a 64-bit OS is being used. Having 
> more than 4 GB means that a 32-bit application will have a lot less 
> contention for memory resources even if it can only access 1/2 or 1/3 of the 
> total memory available to the OS.
>
> -Fred Ridder
>
> > Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2013 06:23:55 +1200
> > To: framers at lists.frameusers.com<mailto:framers at lists.frameusers.com>
> > From: helebor at iinet.net.au<mailto:helebor at iinet.net.au>
> > Subject: RE: Windows 7 + FrameMaker 11 = BOOM!
> >
> > At 01:32 a.m. 10/08/2013, Rick Quatro wrote:
> > >
> > >Otherwise, make sure the writers have plenty of RAM. In my opinion, 8 GB 
> > >is the minimum. This may help with the performance problems.
> > >
> >
> > More than 4 GB of RAM is of absolutely no use for running a 32-bit 
> > application, whether it be on a 32-bit or 64-bit operating system.
> >
> > Helen
>
>
>
>
> *** Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, including any associated or attached 
> files, is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is 
> addressed. This e-mail is confidential and may well also be legally 
> privileged. If you have received it in error, you are on notice of its 
> status. Please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and then delete 
> this message from your system. Please do not copy it or use it for any 
> purposes, or disclose its contents to any other person. This email comes from 
> a division of the Invensys Group, owne

RE: Windows 7 + FrameMaker 11 = BOOM!

[Davis, David]

Well, so look!  :) 

Open the Windows 7 Control Panel, and in the Search field at the top, get it to 
find you 'Resource Monitor'
Go the "Memory" tab and you have a wealth of info on what RAM is being used by 
which processes.

If you find something funny there, it is more likely to cut ice with the 
company's IT procurement folks. 

David


-Original Message-
From: Rick Quatro [mailto:r...@rickquatro.com] 
Sent: 13 August 2013 14:58
To: Davis, David; framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Windows 7 + FrameMaker 11 = BOOM! 

You can disagree if you want, but those of us with heavy-duty FrameMaker 
experience know that, in general, more RAM means less FrameMaker crashes.
With the size (and number) of applications increasing, and the low cost of RAM, 
there is no reason not to run with at least 8 GB.

It may not be a low amount of RAM causing the crashes, but this should be one 
of the first places to look.

Rick

-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Davis, David
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2013 5:30 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Windows 7 + FrameMaker 11 = BOOM! 

Fred, one of the most basic functions of an operating system is to be able to 
manage memory (without crashing!)  :) Simply because applications might all 
want more memory on the go at one time than is physically available, should not 
mean that anything crashes! It gets
paged in and out.   Windows 7, indeed, has more robust sandboxing of memory
usage between apps than Windows XP. 
The idea that "you gotta have 8GB of RAM otherwise Frame will crash" is a bit 
sweeping!
David




*** Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, including any associated or attached 
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7AW (Registered number 166023). For a list of European legal entities within 
the Invensys Group, please select the Legal Entities link at invensys.com.


You may contact Invensys plc on +44 (0)20 3155 1200 or e-mail 
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Windows 7 + FrameMaker 11 = BOOM!

[Davis, David]

Well, so look!  :) 

Open the Windows 7 Control Panel, and in the Search field at the top, get it to 
find you 'Resource Monitor'
Go the "Memory" tab and you have a wealth of info on what RAM is being used by 
which processes.

If you find something funny there, it is more likely to cut ice with the 
company's IT procurement folks. 

David


-Original Message-
From: Rick Quatro [mailto:r...@rickquatro.com] 
Sent: 13 August 2013 14:58
To: Davis, David; framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Windows 7 + FrameMaker 11 = BOOM! 

You can disagree if you want, but those of us with heavy-duty FrameMaker 
experience know that, in general, more RAM means less FrameMaker crashes.
With the size (and number) of applications increasing, and the low cost of RAM, 
there is no reason not to run with at least 8 GB.

It may not be a low amount of RAM causing the crashes, but this should be one 
of the first places to look.

Rick

-Original Message-
From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com
[mailto:framers-bounces at lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Davis, David
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2013 5:30 AM
To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
Subject: RE: Windows 7 + FrameMaker 11 = BOOM! 

Fred, one of the most basic functions of an operating system is to be able to 
manage memory (without crashing!)  :) Simply because applications might all 
want more memory on the go at one time than is physically available, should not 
mean that anything crashes! It gets
paged in and out.   Windows 7, indeed, has more robust sandboxing of memory
usage between apps than Windows XP. 
The idea that "you gotta have 8GB of RAM otherwise Frame will crash" is a bit 
sweeping!
David




*** Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, including any associated or attached 
files, is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is 
addressed. This e-mail is confidential and may well also be legally privileged. 
If you have received it in error, you are on notice of its status. Please 
notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from 
your system. Please do not copy it or use it for any purposes, or disclose its 
contents to any other person. This email comes from a division of the Invensys 
Group, owned by Invensys plc, which is a company registered in England and 
Wales with its registered office at 3rd Floor, 40 Grosvenor Place, London, SW1X 
7AW (Registered number 166023). For a list of European legal entities within 
the Invensys Group, please select the Legal Entities link at invensys.com.


You may contact Invensys plc on +44 (0)20 3155 1200 or e-mail reception at 
invensys.com. This e-mail and any attachments thereto may be subject to the 
terms of any agreements between Invensys (and/or its subsidiaries and 
affiliates) and the recipient (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates).

RE: Windows 7 + FrameMaker 11 = BOOM!

[Davis, David]

Fred, one of the most basic functions of an operating system is to be able to 
manage memory (without crashing!)  :) 
Simply because applications might all want more memory on the go at one time 
than is physically available, should not mean that anything crashes! It gets 
paged in and out.   Windows 7, indeed, has more robust sandboxing of memory 
usage between apps than Windows XP. 
The idea that "you gotta have 8GB of RAM otherwise Frame will crash" is a bit 
sweeping!
David


Message: 3
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 14:37:29 -0400
From: Fred Ridder 
To: Helen Borrie ,
"framers@lists.frameusers.com"  
Subject: RE: Windows 7 + FrameMaker 11 = BOOM!
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

But the application is not the only thing using memory. Even if a 32-bit 
application can only address 4 GB, any additional installed memory can still be 
used by the OS and by other processes if a 64-bit OS is being used. Having more 
than 4 GB means that a 32-bit application will have a lot less contention for 
memory resources even if it can only access 1/2 or 1/3 of the total memory 
available to the OS.

-Fred Ridder

> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2013 06:23:55 +1200
> To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
> From: hele...@iinet.net.au
> Subject: RE: Windows 7 + FrameMaker 11 = BOOM!
> 
> At 01:32 a.m. 10/08/2013, Rick Quatro wrote:
> > 
> >Otherwise, make sure the writers have plenty of RAM. In my opinion, 8 GB is 
> >the minimum. This may help with the performance problems.
> > 
> 
> More than 4 GB of RAM is of absolutely no use for running a 32-bit 
> application, whether it be on a 32-bit or 64-bit operating system.
> 
> Helen




*** Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, including any associated or attached 
files, is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is 
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If you have received it in error, you are on notice of its status. Please 
notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from 
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contents to any other person. This email comes from a division of the Invensys 
Group, owned by Invensys plc, which is a company registered in England and 
Wales with its registered office at 3rd Floor, 40 Grosvenor Place, London, SW1X 
7AW (Registered number 166023). For a list of European legal entities within 
the Invensys Group, please select the Legal Entities link at invensys.com.


You may contact Invensys plc on +44 (0)20 3155 1200 or e-mail 
recept...@invensys.com. This e-mail and any attachments thereto may be subject 
to the terms of any agreements between Invensys (and/or its subsidiaries and 
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Re: Windows 7 + FrameMaker 11 = BOOM!

[Davis, David]

I'd second the advice that anti-virus software is something to look for as a 
culprit for these crashes!  (I must say that, in corporate network 
environments, I've had orders of magnitude greater losses in productivity from 
damned anti-virus software than from ever getting an actual virus :) 

Windows 7 is a very robust, stable, well-respected operating system... assuming 
you have it fully patched and up-to-date from Windows Update, I wouldn't expect 
it to be the problem here.

As for RAM - well, 8 gigabytes is a helluva lot!  And surely, FrameMaker is 
only a 32 bit program? So it cannot address more than a couple of GB at a time 
- throwing more RAM at it is not going to make any difference. 
You can use Windows 7's own Control Panel tools (even just the Performance tab 
in Task Manager) to see how much RAM you're actually using, which will give you 
a better clue as to whether that is an issue on your machines.

Be sure and send all your crash logs to fm.er...@adobe.com - they do read them!

Another suggestion is to pester your IT people to check that things like the 
drivers for the network cards on your PCs are up to date - corporate IT 
environments generally tend not to bother with updates like those, but 
manufacturers do issue a lot of driver updates and these can  have bug fixes 
and performance enhancements, and they can make a difference when you're 
opening massive FM files across a network...

Good luck! :) 

David

*** Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, including any associated or attached 
files, is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is 
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If you have received it in error, you are on notice of its status. Please 
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Group, owned by Invensys plc, which is a company registered in England and 
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7AW (Registered number 166023). For a list of European legal entities within 
the Invensys Group, please select the Legal Entities link at invensys.com.


You may contact Invensys plc on +44 (0)20 3155 1200 or e-mail 
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Windows 7 + FrameMaker 11 = BOOM!

[Davis, David]

Fred, one of the most basic functions of an operating system is to be able to 
manage memory (without crashing!)  :) 
Simply because applications might all want more memory on the go at one time 
than is physically available, should not mean that anything crashes! It gets 
paged in and out.   Windows 7, indeed, has more robust sandboxing of memory 
usage between apps than Windows XP. 
The idea that "you gotta have 8GB of RAM otherwise Frame will crash" is a bit 
sweeping!
David


Message: 3
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2013 14:37:29 -0400
From: Fred Ridder 
To: Helen Borrie ,
"framers at lists.frameusers.com"   
Subject: RE: Windows 7 + FrameMaker 11 = BOOM!
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

But the application is not the only thing using memory. Even if a 32-bit 
application can only address 4 GB, any additional installed memory can still be 
used by the OS and by other processes if a 64-bit OS is being used. Having more 
than 4 GB means that a 32-bit application will have a lot less contention for 
memory resources even if it can only access 1/2 or 1/3 of the total memory 
available to the OS.

-Fred Ridder

> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2013 06:23:55 +1200
> To: framers at lists.frameusers.com
> From: helebor at iinet.net.au
> Subject: RE: Windows 7 + FrameMaker 11 = BOOM!
> 
> At 01:32 a.m. 10/08/2013, Rick Quatro wrote:
> > 
> >Otherwise, make sure the writers have plenty of RAM. In my opinion, 8 GB is 
> >the minimum. This may help with the performance problems.
> > 
> 
> More than 4 GB of RAM is of absolutely no use for running a 32-bit 
> application, whether it be on a 32-bit or 64-bit operating system.
> 
> Helen




*** Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, including any associated or attached 
files, is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is 
addressed. This e-mail is confidential and may well also be legally privileged. 
If you have received it in error, you are on notice of its status. Please 
notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from 
your system. Please do not copy it or use it for any purposes, or disclose its 
contents to any other person. This email comes from a division of the Invensys 
Group, owned by Invensys plc, which is a company registered in England and 
Wales with its registered office at 3rd Floor, 40 Grosvenor Place, London, SW1X 
7AW (Registered number 166023). For a list of European legal entities within 
the Invensys Group, please select the Legal Entities link at invensys.com.


You may contact Invensys plc on +44 (0)20 3155 1200 or e-mail reception at 
invensys.com. This e-mail and any attachments thereto may be subject to the 
terms of any agreements between Invensys (and/or its subsidiaries and 
affiliates) and the recipient (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates).

Windows 7 + FrameMaker 11 = BOOM!

[Davis, David]

I'd second the advice that anti-virus software is something to look for as a 
culprit for these crashes!  (I must say that, in corporate network 
environments, I've had orders of magnitude greater losses in productivity from 
damned anti-virus software than from ever getting an actual virus :) 

Windows 7 is a very robust, stable, well-respected operating system... assuming 
you have it fully patched and up-to-date from Windows Update, I wouldn't expect 
it to be the problem here.

As for RAM - well, 8 gigabytes is a helluva lot!  And surely, FrameMaker is 
only a 32 bit program? So it cannot address more than a couple of GB at a time 
- throwing more RAM at it is not going to make any difference. 
You can use Windows 7's own Control Panel tools (even just the Performance tab 
in Task Manager) to see how much RAM you're actually using, which will give you 
a better clue as to whether that is an issue on your machines.

Be sure and send all your crash logs to fm.error at adobe.com - they do read 
them!

Another suggestion is to pester your IT people to check that things like the 
drivers for the network cards on your PCs are up to date - corporate IT 
environments generally tend not to bother with updates like those, but 
manufacturers do issue a lot of driver updates and these can  have bug fixes 
and performance enhancements, and they can make a difference when you're 
opening massive FM files across a network...

Good luck! :) 

David

*** Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail, including any associated or attached 
files, is intended solely for the individual or entity to which it is 
addressed. This e-mail is confidential and may well also be legally privileged. 
If you have received it in error, you are on notice of its status. Please 
notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and then delete this message from 
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Group, owned by Invensys plc, which is a company registered in England and 
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7AW (Registered number 166023). For a list of European legal entities within 
the Invensys Group, please select the Legal Entities link at invensys.com.


You may contact Invensys plc on +44 (0)20 3155 1200 or e-mail reception at 
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affiliates) and the recipient (and/or its subsidiaries and affiliates).

RE: framers Digest, Vol 94, Issue 6 - FrameMaker 10 Crashes Regularly is unstructured FrameMaker 11 more stabke

[Davis, David]

Joseph, I've bneen  using Frame11 here on Windows 7 (64 bit) here for a couple 
of weeks now, and it has crashed 3 or 4 times so far.
(Seemed to be when I was working with EPS's and graphics frames - but hard to 
say really - one time I just looked at it funny and it crashed).
I did send the crash log files to fmer...@adobe.com and once  I just put 
"ARRGH!" in the mail as the cause (as it was the second time it had 
crashed that afternoon!) and to my amusement a nice gentleman from Adobe did 
email me back asking if he could help lol 

David

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2013 11:25:17 -0500
From: Joseph Lorenzini 
To: FrameMaker Forum 
Subject: FrameMaker 10 Crashes Regularly,   is unstructured FrameMaker
11 more stable
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hi all,

I have been using FM 10 for about 2 years. It seems like FrameMaker will 
randomly crash at least once a day on me. And I do mean crash --- get the 
infamous fatal exception dialog box and then FrameMaker goes kaput. In response 
to the inevitable debug questions:

-yes i have done a mif wash
-no this doesn't happen with a particular book or framemaker file. It happens 
randomly no matter what book or file i am in and i have over 3,000 pages of 
documentation.
-yes, these files have existed since FM 9 -- not sure why that version should 
make a difference -there is no conditional text in any of the files. I do use 
text insets and variables.
-no the crash doesn't seem to happen when i do a particular thing. The only 
common thing that occurs is that i use hot keys a lot. That said, I use hot 
keys a lot and most of the time the crash does not happen.
-no i am not on a network share. All files are local.
-Yes, FM 10 is fully patched.

In any event, debugging why this crash is happening would be non-trivial and 
even if i did figure out why its happenings, there's no guarantee that i'd able 
to find a fix. Adobe certainly isn't going to provide one.

Consequently, I am wondering if people have noticed whether FM 11 is 
significantly more stable.Since I am in unstructured, there wasn't a compelling 
reason for me to upgrade. However, i'll consider doing it, if it will reduce or 
eliminate the frequency of crahses on framemaker.

Thanks,
Joseph Lorenzini
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