Re: Sample EDD files

[Gary Schnabl]

I created an EDD from the official DTDs for both DocBook 4.5 and 
DocBook 5 and have parked them somewhere on one of my older hard drives. 
I do not know whether much DocBook documentation is being done nowadays.


Gary

On 8/15/2014 4:44 PM, Theresa de Valence wrote:
Is there a place where I could look at some sample EDD files? I've 
been able to locate some sample DTD files from w3schools.com but a 
similar search for EDDs only finds employment in California!


Thanks,
Theresa
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Open Office to Frame

[Gary Schnabl]

Save the OpenOffice or LibreOffice ODT document as an DOC file and 
simply import into FrameMaker. I have done that numerous times with FM 7.0.

Gary

On 1/24/2013 2:41 PM, Gillian Flato wrote:
>
> Anyone know a good tool for converting Open Office documents to 
> FrameMaker?
>
> *Thank You,*
>
> **
>
> *Gillian Flato*
>
> *Senior Content Developer*
>
> *Skype: Gillian.B.Flato*
>
> *Gillian.Flato at nexenta.com*
>
>


-- 
Detroit--two miles north of Canada, Windsor, that is...

Technical Editor forum 

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Re: Open Office to Frame

[Gary Schnabl]

Save the OpenOffice or LibreOffice ODT document as an DOC file and 
simply import into FrameMaker. I have done that numerous times with FM 7.0.


Gary

On 1/24/2013 2:41 PM, Gillian Flato wrote:


Anyone know a good tool for converting Open Office documents to 
FrameMaker?


*Thank You,*

**

*Gillian Flato*

*Senior Content Developer*

*Skype: Gillian.B.Flato*

*gillian.fl...@nexenta.com*





--
Detroit--two miles north of Canada, Windsor, that is...

Technical Editor forum http://www.technicaleditor.livernoisyard.com/phpBB3

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OT: Conversion of .vsd to .png

[Gary Schnabl]

On 2/21/2012 3:46 PM, jburgdor wrote:
>
> Does anyone know of an automated method for doing drawing conversions 
> from .vsd to .png?
>

One manual method...

Download LibreOffice 3.5.0 (if you do not have this office suite), and 
then open the Draw application to open the Visio VSD file. From there, 
you can select what you want from the opened VSD file and then 
copy-and-paste it into another application that you could paste the 
clipboard and save it as a PNG file. The LO version 3.5 that was 
released this month is the only version that can open a VSD file.

Gary
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Re: OT: Conversion of .vsd to .png

[Gary Schnabl]

On 2/21/2012 3:46 PM, jburgdor wrote:


Does anyone know of an automated method for doing drawing conversions 
from .vsd to .png?




One manual method...

Download LibreOffice 3.5.0 (if you do not have this office suite), and 
then open the Draw application to open the Visio VSD file. From there, 
you can select what you want from the opened VSD file and then 
copy-and-paste it into another application that you could paste the 
clipboard and save it as a PNG file. The LO version 3.5 that was 
released this month is the only version that can open a VSD file.


Gary
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fm property values for align attribute

[Gary Schnabl]

The commented-out statements in the read/write rule below cause parsing 
errors. Are the fm property values for those three statements inappropriate?

   attribute "align" {
 is fm property cell alignment type;
/*value "center" is fm property value center;*/
/*value "char" is fm property value char;*/
/*value "justify" is fm property value justify;*/
 value "left" is fm property value left;
 value "right" is fm property value right;
   }


Gary
-- 

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Southwest Detroit, two miles NORTH! of Canada--Windsor, that is...

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fm property values for align attribute

[Gary Schnabl]

The commented-out statements in the read/write rule below cause parsing 
errors. Are the fm property values for those three statements inappropriate?


  attribute align {
is fm property cell alignment type;
/*value center is fm property value center;*/
/*value char is fm property value char;*/
/*value justify is fm property value justify;*/
value left is fm property value left;
value right is fm property value right;
  }


Gary
--

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Southwest Detroit, two miles NORTH! of Canada--Windsor, that is...

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Re: FM9 Newbie looking for best self training tools

[Gary Schnabl]

On 7/11/2010 12:24 PM, N Collins wrote:

Hi!

I'm still using the trial version and need to make a recommendation to a
client on if FrameMaker is the right tool for their system instruction
manuals.  Client has a job shop and sells many unique system configurations
made from standard components to private and government clients.  The idea
is to quickly assemble a unique manual for each system order shipped.  If I
recommend FM, then client will buy FM and pay for training for several
users.  The client is biased against Word, and frankly for any
document larger than 50 pages, I agree.  Word gets tangled on itself over
large files.

I've never used FM before and trying to learn 9.0.  I'm an advanced user of
Word, in Windows 7 (technical writer using Word for over 15 years).  I
bought and went through most of Classroom in a Book for FM9, but I'm
stumbling over the vocabulary (things like Headings versus Markers don't
seem to be 1:1 meanings, for example).  Dummies books have always given me a
great head start, but the only one out there I can find is Framemaker 5.5
for Dummies.  My thought is that Dummies/FM 5.5 could at least help me
understand how FM works/thinks, achieve a rudimentary glossary, so then I
can use other FM training tools.

What I'm tasked to do is to create multiple individual files with unique
content, and create various manuals with different file combinations - each
manual with a table of contents and index and automatic page numbering.  I
think I'm supposed to learn unstructured first in order to do this?  Or do I
need to learn structured first and make some master templates?  Any
suggestions or perhaps anyone care to send me an example to play with?
Maybe I should forget about FrameMaker and try something else?  I'm open to
your suggestions.

Any help or suggestions are greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

Corrie in Tempe, AZ
   


As mentioned before, try to pick up version 7.x inexpensively via eBay 
or whatever and bid low. The help guide and online PDFs has hundreds 
of copyediting errors (seem to have been written by those with poor 
English skills...), but are decent enough to learn both conventional and 
XML-structured FrameMaker. If you do any DocBook, make sure you use 
version 4.5 or 5.0 instead of 4.1.2 from 2002.


The help guide and PDFs from version 8 are better written and apply 
pretty well to the older 7.x. If you can get a version 7.x, try to get 
version 7.2. Otherwise, get a cheap version 8, if one is available.


Version 10 should be released soon, along with the rest of the technical 
suite that have not yet been updated. Once they become available, all 
older FrameMaker versions should become even cheaper. So, waiting a bit 
should not hurt.


Gary

--

Gary Schnabl
Southwest Detroit, two miles NORTH! of Canada--Windsor, that is...

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FM9 Newbie looking for best self training tools

[Gary Schnabl]

On 7/11/2010 12:24 PM, N Collins wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I'm still using the trial version and need to make a recommendation to a
> client on if FrameMaker is the right tool for their system instruction
> manuals.  Client has a job shop and sells many unique system configurations
> made from standard components to private and government clients.  The idea
> is to quickly assemble a unique manual for each system order shipped.  If I
> recommend FM, then client will buy FM and pay for training for several
> users.  The client is biased against Word, and frankly for any
> document larger than 50 pages, I agree.  Word gets tangled on itself over
> large files.
>
> I've never used FM before and trying to learn 9.0.  I'm an advanced user of
> Word, in Windows 7 (technical writer using Word for over 15 years).  I
> bought and went through most of "Classroom in a Book" for FM9, but I'm
> stumbling over the vocabulary (things like Headings versus Markers don't
> seem to be 1:1 meanings, for example).  Dummies books have always given me a
> great head start, but the only one out there I can find is Framemaker 5.5
> for Dummies.  My thought is that Dummies/FM 5.5 could at least help me
> understand how FM "works/thinks", achieve a rudimentary glossary, so then I
> can use other FM training tools.
>
> What I'm tasked to do is to create multiple individual files with unique
> content, and create various manuals with different file combinations - each
> manual with a table of contents and index and automatic page numbering.  I
> think I'm supposed to learn unstructured first in order to do this?  Or do I
> need to learn structured first and make some master templates?  Any
> suggestions or perhaps anyone care to send me an example to play with?
> Maybe I should forget about FrameMaker and try something else?  I'm open to
> your suggestions.
>
> Any help or suggestions are greatly appreciated!
>
> Thanks!
>
> Corrie in Tempe, AZ
>

As mentioned before, try to pick up version 7.x inexpensively via eBay 
or whatever and bid low. The help guide and "online" PDFs has hundreds 
of copyediting errors (seem to have been written by those with poor 
English skills...), but are decent enough to learn both conventional and 
XML-structured FrameMaker. If you do any DocBook, make sure you use 
version 4.5 or 5.0 instead of 4.1.2 from 2002.

The help guide and PDFs from version 8 are better written and apply 
pretty well to the older 7.x. If you can get a version 7.x, try to get 
version 7.2. Otherwise, get a cheap version 8, if one is available.

Version 10 should be released soon, along with the rest of the technical 
suite that have not yet been updated. Once they become available, all 
older FrameMaker versions should become even cheaper. So, waiting a bit 
should not hurt.

Gary

-- 

Gary Schnabl
Southwest Detroit, two miles NORTH! of Canada--Windsor, that is...

Re: From DocBook to FrameMaker

[Gary Schnabl]

On 7/7/2010 8:56 AM, mathieu jacquet wrote:

Hi everybody,

I am working on Vista 64 with FM 9.

I have read that it was possible to import DocBook files into FM. But I've also read that 
this could turn to nightmare when it comes to create the proper EDD. I am not familiar at 
all with structured Frame. So my question is, how easy is it to import a DocBook file 
into FM, and what would it require to achieve that nicely ? Also, is it mandatory to use 
structured FM for doing so ? And if yes, how much work would it be to turn an 
unstructured light FM document (3 chapters, about 75 pages) into a structured 
one ?

Thank you all for your valuable expertise,
Mathieu.


I have put together an omnibus EDD from each DocBook 4.5 and 5.0 DTDs. I 
was very recently playing around with the 4.5 version while converting 
the HTML files for the Definite Guide for 4.5 and another document from 
Sagehill. Both of those documents use a fair amount of DocBook's 
elements, so that they can be decent examples for playing around with DB 
4.5 Structured FrameMaker.


You can use IE to make copies of the HTML documents, import them into 
Word 2007 or 2010, and export them as RTF files to import into 
FrameMaker without any problem. Then you can go on from there using a 
conversion table to lend structure to those files after importing the 
elements from the EDD file. Really quite simple, BTW, as long as you 
know how to go about it.


Gary
--

Gary Schnabl
Southwest Detroit, two miles NORTH! of Canada--Windsor, that is...

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From DocBook to FrameMaker

[Gary Schnabl]

On 7/7/2010 8:56 AM, mathieu jacquet wrote:
> Hi everybody,
>
> I am working on Vista 64 with FM 9.
>
> I have read that it was possible to import DocBook files into FM. But I've 
> also read that this could turn to nightmare when it comes to create the 
> proper EDD. I am not familiar at all with structured Frame. So my question 
> is, how easy is it to import a DocBook file into FM, and what would it 
> require to achieve that nicely ? Also, is it mandatory to use structured FM 
> for doing so ? And if yes, how much work would it be to turn an unstructured 
> "light" FM document (3 chapters, about 75 pages) into a structured one ?
>
> Thank you all for your valuable expertise,
> Mathieu.

I have put together an omnibus EDD from each DocBook 4.5 and 5.0 DTDs. I 
was very recently playing around with the 4.5 version while converting 
the HTML files for the Definite Guide for 4.5 and another document from 
Sagehill. Both of those documents use a fair amount of DocBook's 
elements, so that they can be decent examples for playing around with DB 
4.5 Structured FrameMaker.

You can use IE to make copies of the HTML documents, import them into 
Word 2007 or 2010, and export them as RTF files to import into 
FrameMaker without any problem. Then you can go on from there using a 
conversion table to lend structure to those files after importing the 
elements from the EDD file. Really quite simple, BTW, as long as you 
know how to go about it.

Gary
-- 

Gary Schnabl
Southwest Detroit, two miles NORTH! of Canada--Windsor, that is...

Re: Free online version of Read Me First! A Style Guide for theComputer Industry, Third Edition (3rd Edition)

[Gary Schnabl]

On 12/24/2009 9:22 AM, Jack DeLand wrote:
 http://books.google.com/books?id=TJSwqVS24CYCprintsec=frontcoverdq=read+me+firstcd=1#v=onepageq=f=false

 It says it's a limited preview, but I was able to scroll all the way
 from the front to the back cover.


AFAIK, you cannot copy and paste from an online Google Book. They are 
nice to preview, though. The Historical Society in a Milwaukee 
suburb--the village of West Milwaukee--just west of its inner city near 
Miller Park where the Brewers play had written a 100th anniversary book. 
Somehow, it was recently picked for a Google book.

I came across the book when web searching something relating to my 
surname, and this free e-book was among its hits. To my surprise, it 
contained three pictures of my grandfather who died 59 years ago, as a 
21-year old or thereabouts, from circa 1905, three years after he 
emigrated from the Kaernten county of Austria. A lot of previously 
unknown near relatives and kin were also present.

Gary
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Free online version of Read Me First! A Style Guide for theComputer Industry, Third Edition (3rd Edition)

[Gary Schnabl]

On 12/24/2009 9:22 AM, Jack DeLand wrote:
> http://books.google.com/books?id=TJSwqVS24CYC=frontcover=read+me+first=1#v=onepage==false
>
> It says it's a "limited preview," but I was able to scroll all the way
> from the front to the back cover.
>

AFAIK, you cannot copy and paste from an online Google Book. They are 
nice to preview, though. The Historical Society in a Milwaukee 
suburb--the village of West Milwaukee--just west of its inner city near 
Miller Park where the Brewers play had written a 100th anniversary book. 
Somehow, it was recently picked for a Google book.

I came across the book when web searching something relating to my 
surname, and this free e-book was among its hits. To my surprise, it 
contained three pictures of my grandfather who died 59 years ago, as a 
21-year old or thereabouts, from circa 1905, three years after he 
emigrated from the Kaernten "county" of Austria. A lot of previously 
unknown near relatives and kin were also present.

Gary

Re: FrameMaker 8 installation files downloadable anywhere?

[Gary Schnabl]

syed.hos...@aeris.net wrote:
 Hi, all.

 My old laptop is not functioning and I need to migrate to a new one that
 is now on my desk.

 Unfortunately, I cannot find my FrameMaker 8 disks anywhere (although I
 have the license info printed and saved away luckily) ... is there any
 place on the Adobe web site that I can use to download the installation
 file?

 I can only see the FrameMaker 9 file on their site, but since I am not
 yet using that ... unfortunately, it will not work.

 Help!
   

The oxymoronic customer support people should provide those files for 
you to download.

At least that is what they told me in their Indian English 
accents--twice--that I would be able to download earlier installers of 
FrameMaker. They said that I would receive emails to that effect--from 
two different customer support people at Adobe. And I am still waiting...


Gary
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FrameMaker 8 installation files downloadable anywhere?

[Gary Schnabl]

Syed.Hosain at aeris.net wrote:
> Hi, all.
>
> My old laptop is not functioning and I need to migrate to a new one that
> is now on my desk.
>
> Unfortunately, I cannot find my FrameMaker 8 disks anywhere (although I
> have the license info printed and saved away luckily) ... is there any
> place on the Adobe web site that I can use to download the installation
> file?
>
> I can only see the FrameMaker 9 file on their site, but since I am not
> yet using that ... unfortunately, it will not work.
>
> Help!
>   

The oxymoronic customer support people should provide those files for 
you to download.

At least that is what they told me in their Indian English 
accents--twice--that I would be able to download earlier installers of 
FrameMaker. They said that I would receive emails to that effect--from 
two different customer support people at Adobe. And I am still waiting...


Gary

FrameScript installation snafu

[Gary Schnabl]

FrameScript was offering a 25% discount that ended a few days ago. So, I 
decided to finally purchase it.

Well, its menu did not install on FrameMaker nor did it install the two 
(or more?) help and whatever HTML files into the FS root folder as it 
should. Three years ago, an evaluation version of FS worked A-OK.

I notified their customer (or technical) support person and was told 
that a "John" would look into it. It's been about five days now, and I 
still do not have a properly installed FS installation. The activation 
process was not the problem because the application afterwards indicated 
that it was activated (or was it?).

What might be the problem? Has anybody else experienced any FS 
installation problems recently?

Gary

Re: Frame Maker 9 and some questions about its indexing and page limits

[Gary Schnabl]

Shell, Robert wrote:
 Dear Framers:
 I have been enjoying unparalleled stability with my FM 8.p20? running on 
 Vista Business edition (with all updates). I have now graduated to the 
 Professional Communications Suite 2 and also bought FrameScript. I am a very 
 happy camper, although surveying many learning curves.

 Nevertheless, the stability of FM9 has encouraged me in my humble 
 unstructured authoring style to take on a really ambitious project. 
 Historians like me use primary documents, i.e.  eyewitness accounts as their 
 building blocks in all their interpretations which are called secondary 
 sources. This entails that few people can ever become historians because 
 trips to archives are so expensive and intimidating that few venture back 
 after their first visit.

 I think I can fix that. I figured that primary documents can easily be fed 
 into FM and then edited with footnotes and indexed with multiple indexes. 
 Thus even I am providing only a glorified finding aid, I am still providing 
 a huge, new and fast service to all would be-historians. All in pdf.

 My first attempt is now in its second edition and is 7,000 pages long of 
 which 1,000 pages were 7 indexes, viz. authors, persons, places, subjects, 
 ships, titles and a timeline. The first edition was authored using PageMaker 
 with a single index. With the second edition, using FM 8, I experienced 
 problems (hangings or crashes) with the generation of all these heavily 
 formatted indexes, some three levels deep. But I persevered and the CD is 
 now on sale with clickable indexes and embedded Flash movies, etc.

 Now with FM9 I have created a full suite of new documents of 42,000 pages, 
 and when I say pages I mean real pages as in a 19th century book (300 words 
 a page).

 So my first question is. Does anyone know what the upper limits of FM9 are 
 with regard to
  a) number of subdocuments and
  b) number and complexity of indexes.
  c) total number of pages
 Will Acrobat reader manage with all this?

 Finally, does anyone with FM use two screens? I am unhappy with all these 
 boxes and pods in FM9 and would like them all on a second screen (which I 
 would have to buy). I have not learnt how to dock them yet. Any hints 
 gratefully received.

 Thanks to the organizers of this wonderful listserv.

 Rob Shell
   

Maybe you could ask Bill Gates about using two displays.Some computer 
show over the weekend mentioned that Bill was a three-monitor guy.

Gary

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FrameScript installation snafu

[Gary Schnabl]

FrameScript was offering a 25% discount that ended a few days ago. So, I 
decided to finally purchase it.

Well, its menu did not install on FrameMaker nor did it install the two 
(or more?) help and whatever HTML files into the FS root folder as it 
should. Three years ago, an evaluation version of FS worked A-OK.

I notified their customer (or technical) support person and was told 
that a John would look into it. It's been about five days now, and I 
still do not have a properly installed FS installation. The activation 
process was not the problem because the application afterwards indicated 
that it was activated (or was it?).

What might be the problem? Has anybody else experienced any FS 
installation problems recently?

Gary
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Frame Maker 9 and some questions about its indexing and page limits

[Gary Schnabl]

Shell, Robert wrote:
> Dear Framers:
> I have been enjoying unparalleled stability with my FM 8.p20? running on 
> Vista Business edition (with all updates). I have now graduated to the 
> Professional Communications Suite 2 and also bought FrameScript. I am a very 
> happy camper, although surveying many learning curves.
>
> Nevertheless, the stability of FM9 has encouraged me in my humble 
> unstructured authoring style to take on a really ambitious project. 
> Historians like me use primary documents, i.e.  eyewitness accounts as their 
> building blocks in all their interpretations which are called secondary 
> sources. This entails that few people can ever become historians because 
> trips to archives are so expensive and intimidating that few venture back 
> after their first visit.
>
> I think I can fix that. I figured that primary documents can easily be fed 
> into FM and then edited with footnotes and indexed with multiple indexes. 
> Thus even I am providing only a glorified finding aid, I am still providing 
> a huge, new and fast service to all would be-historians. All in pdf.
>
> My first attempt is now in its second edition and is 7,000 pages long of 
> which 1,000 pages were 7 indexes, viz. authors, persons, places, subjects, 
> ships, titles and a timeline. The first edition was authored using PageMaker 
> with a single index. With the second edition, using FM 8, I experienced 
> problems (hangings or crashes) with the generation of all these heavily 
> formatted indexes, some three levels deep. But I persevered and the CD is 
> now on sale with clickable indexes and embedded Flash movies, etc.
>
> Now with FM9 I have created a full suite of new documents of 42,000 pages, 
> and when I say pages I mean real pages as in a 19th century book (300 words 
> a page).
>
> So my first question is. Does anyone know what the upper limits of FM9 are 
> with regard to
>  a) number of subdocuments and
>  b) number and complexity of indexes.
>  c) total number of pages
> Will Acrobat reader manage with all this?
>
> Finally, does anyone with FM use two screens? I am unhappy with all these 
> boxes and pods in FM9 and would like them all on a second screen (which I 
> would have to buy). I have not learnt how to dock them yet. Any hints 
> gratefully received.
>
> Thanks to the organizers of this wonderful listserv.
>
> Rob Shell
>   

Maybe you could ask Bill Gates about using two displays.Some computer 
show over the weekend mentioned that Bill was a three-monitor guy.

Gary

Re: Request Info on DocBook

[Gary Schnabl]

Garnier Garnier wrote:
 Hello Listers,
  
 I am about to explore DocBook. I am sure some of the listers must be using it 
 or have used it in the past. Could you please share your experience? Went 
 through some of the details over the net and it seems a good tool to switch 
 to but involves a very deep learning curve. Is there any plug-in available to 
 make things easier? I need to know this as some of the writers are not keen 
 to learn XML and would rather click buttons that would take care of what they 
 want to generate. The company will definitely not invest in training nor am I 
 aware of any institute/entity in India that imparts training in DocBook.
  
 When I start exploring I will definitely join the DocBook user forum. Am 
 writing to this list as I need some firsthand information about the tool.
  
 Any kind of related information is welcome.
  
 TIA
 B/R
 Garnier
   

Two or three years ago, I created huge EDDs for DocBook 4.12, 4.5, and 
5. Of the three DB 5 is a little incomplete because a few items were 
missing in the DTD file that the DocBook people assembled. Still, a 
helluva lot could be done with the almost-intact DB 5. [I read somewhere 
in the minutes of a meeting several months ago that the editor involved 
with DB 5 might complete that DTD...]

But with the advent of DB 5, the DTD version is nonnormative.

Gary
___


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Re: Request Info on DocBook

[Gary Schnabl]

Art Campbell wrote:
 Gary,
 Hasn't 5.1 been released to fix the problems that 5.0 had? I was
 hearing about it, but don't use it (yet) so I haven't tracked it down.

 Art
   

Found this while searching for 5.1:


  DocBook Technical Committee Meeting Minutes: 15 April 2009

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*DocBook* Technical Committee Meeting Minutes: *15* April 2009
=

The *DocBook* Technical Committee met on Wednesday, *15* April 2009 at
01:00p EDT (*10*:00a PDT, *17*:00GMT, *18*:00BST, *19*:00CEST, 02:00JST+,
022:30p India+) for 30 minutes.

*1*. Roll call

Present: Scott Hudson, Dick Hamilton, Nancy Harrison,
Jirka Kosek, Larry Rowland, Bob Stayton, Norm Walsh.

Absent: Jim Earley, Patricia Gee, Gershon Joseph, Corey
Leong, Dave Pawson, John Pederson, Pine Zhang

Regrets: Keith Falhgren, Paul Grosso, Richard Kwan

2. Accepted the minutes [*1*] of the previous meeting.

3. Next meeting: 20 May 2009

No regrets so far.

4. Review of the agenda.

No new items.

*5*. Review of open action items

a. Bob to organize TDG reading after names are fixed.
CONTINUE

b. Norm to write up a backwards compatibility policy document.
COMPLETED

c. Norm to incorporate group parameter change (RFE *1998852*) into the
schema
for *5*.*1*.
COMPLETED

d. Norm to update OASIS site for *5*.0 spec and schema.
COMPLETED

*e. Norm to update spec to include public and system identifiers **
for the 5.0 DTD version.
CONTINUE *

f. Jirka to add schema comparison table to *DocBook* *5*.0 Transition 
Guide.
CONTINUE

g. Norm to add floatstyle attribute to sidebar for *5*.*1*.
COMPLETED

h. Norm to write up proposed content model for initializer.
COMPLETED

i. Norm to add subtitle to sidebar for *5*.*1*.
COMPLETED

j. Norm to determine OASIS requirements for charter updates.
COMPLETED

k. Norm to work with Mary to make Publishing Subcommittee
schema a Committee Working Draft.
CONTINUE

l. Norm to work with Keith and Scott to update the OASIS committee
site to make the Publishing Subcommittee Working Draft
publicly available.
CONTINUE

m. Norm to move *DocBook* *5*.0 into the OASIS process
for approval as an OASIS Standard.
COMPLETED

n. Dick will initiate an email discussion on how to
present content models using more compact syntax.
COMPLETED

o. Larry to work up an complete assembly example
with basic relationships.
CONTINUE

p. Norm to make available the branding icons he produced.
COMPLETED

q. Norm to incorporate Larry's new name element text into TDG.
COMPLETED

r. Norm to incorporate new @class attribute values for
othercredit into *5*.*1*.
COMPLETED



6. *DocBook* TC charter: news of update.

The recent vote regarding the charter changes passed unianimously.
Mary will announce it at some point.

7. *DocBook* *5*.0 standards update.

Norm submitted the information, and is waiting for Mary to
set up the OASIS ballot.

Norm is still looking for a more compact syntax for
the paper version of the *DocBook* *5*.0 Definitive Guide,
which O'Reilly may publish.

8. Policy for backwards compatible changes (Norm).

Norm posted his proposal [2].
There was one favorable comment.
It was moved and seconded to adopt the changes. APPROVED.

ACTION: Norm to put the new backwards compatibility policy in the spec.

ACTION: Norm to put the new backwards compatibility policy in the
reference documentation.

9. Publishing Subcommittee 

Re: Request Info on DocBook

[Gary Schnabl]

Garnier Garnier wrote:
 Hello Listers,
  
 I am about to explore DocBook. I am sure some of the listers must be using it 
 or have used it in the past. Could you please share your experience? Went 
 through some of the details over the net and it seems a good tool to switch 
 to but involves a very deep learning curve. Is there any plug-in available to 
 make things easier? I need to know this as some of the writers are not keen 
 to learn XML and would rather click buttons that would take care of what they 
 want to generate. The company will definitely not invest in training nor am I 
 aware of any institute/entity in India that imparts training in DocBook.
  
 When I start exploring I will definitely join the DocBook user forum. Am 
 writing to this list as I need some firsthand information about the tool.
  
 Any kind of related information is welcome.
  
 TIA
 B/R
 Garnier
   

In order to do DocBook XML, all you need is FrameMaker 7.0 or higher in 
order to do it fairly effortlessly--once you have your plan of action 
clearly thought out. An XML editor might make some of the work 
easier--for doing various tasks or for studying DocBook XML.

The older (2002 or so) Adobe documentation has some (some limited, some 
fairly detailed...) information on how to start. Basically, you need to 
take a DocBook DTD of one of the available versions: say, 4.1.2, 4.x (up 
to 4.5), or use the incomplete DocBook 5.0 DTD to start with. You can 
download them from various sources--the best being DocBook itself.

Then, you set up a simple structure application, using the appropriate 
files (read/write rules file, DTD file, struct-app file, etc.). Then use 
FrameMaker to generate an EDD file. In my case, I generated the most 
general EDD file (huge) that covers practically everything that 
FrameMaker can do, which you can reduce afterwards in order to apply one 
of more concise, especially formatted EDDs for your project. Or just 
keep using the huge general EDD. Your choice.

Gary
___


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Request Info on DocBook

[Gary Schnabl]

Garnier Garnier wrote:
> Hello Listers,
>  
> I am about to explore DocBook. I am sure some of the listers must be using it 
> or have used it in the past. Could you please share your experience? Went 
> through some of the details over the net and it seems a good tool to switch 
> to but involves a very deep learning curve. Is there any plug-in available to 
> make things easier? I need to know this as some of the writers are not keen 
> to learn XML and would rather click buttons that would take care of what they 
> want to generate. The company will definitely not invest in training nor am I 
> aware of any institute/entity in India that imparts training in DocBook.
>  
> When I start exploring I will definitely join the DocBook user forum. Am 
> writing to this list as I need some firsthand information about the tool.
>  
> Any kind of related information is welcome.
>  
> TIA
> B/R
> Garnier
>   

Two or three years ago, I created huge EDDs for DocBook 4.12, 4.5, and 
5. Of the three DB 5 is a little incomplete because a few items were 
missing in the DTD file that the DocBook people assembled. Still, a 
helluva lot could be done with the almost-intact DB 5. [I read somewhere 
in the minutes of a meeting several months ago that the editor involved 
with DB 5 might complete that DTD...]

But with the advent of DB 5, the DTD version is nonnormative.

Gary

Request Info on DocBook

[Gary Schnabl]

Art Campbell wrote:
> Gary,
> Hasn't 5.1 been released to fix the problems that 5.0 had? I was
> hearing about it, but don't use it (yet) so I haven't tracked it down.
>
> Art
>
> Art Campbell
>   

I did not know that 5.1 was available. The DTD nonnormative version of 
5.0 was admittedly incomplete, though. Some (all?) of the HTML elements 
were listed as being part of other element definitions but were not 
referenced themselves.

However, what there was of 5.0 was much more detailed than 4.5. I tried 
making a DTD from the normative version of 5.0, but the software did not 
work as it should.

Gary

Request Info on DocBook

[Gary Schnabl]

Art Campbell wrote:
> Gary,
> Hasn't 5.1 been released to fix the problems that 5.0 had? I was
> hearing about it, but don't use it (yet) so I haven't tracked it down.
>
> Art
>   

Found this while searching for 5.1:


  DocBook Technical Committee Meeting Minutes: 15 April 2009

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Apr 15, 2009; 06:26pm :: Rate this Message: 

 

 

 

 

 

 
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*DocBook* Technical Committee Meeting Minutes: *15* April 2009
=

The *DocBook* Technical Committee met on Wednesday, *15* April 2009 at
01:00p EDT (*10*:00a PDT, *17*:00GMT, *18*:00BST, *19*:00CEST, 02:00JST+,
022:30p India+) for 30 minutes.

*1*. Roll call

Present: Scott Hudson, Dick Hamilton, Nancy Harrison,
Jirka Kosek, Larry Rowland, Bob Stayton, Norm Walsh.

Absent: Jim Earley, Patricia Gee, Gershon Joseph, Corey
Leong, Dave Pawson, John Pederson, Pine Zhang

Regrets: Keith Falhgren, Paul Grosso, Richard Kwan

2. Accepted the minutes [*1*] of the previous meeting.

3. Next meeting: 20 May 2009

No regrets so far.

4. Review of the agenda.

No new items.

*5*. Review of open action items

a. Bob to organize TDG reading after names are fixed.
CONTINUE

b. Norm to write up a backwards compatibility policy document.
COMPLETED

c. Norm to incorporate group parameter change (RFE *1998852*) into the
schema
for *5*.*1*.
COMPLETED

d. Norm to update OASIS site for *5*.0 spec and schema.
COMPLETED

*e. Norm to update spec to include public and system identifiers **
for the 5.0 DTD version.
CONTINUE *

f. Jirka to add schema comparison table to *DocBook* *5*.0 Transition 
Guide.
CONTINUE

g. Norm to add floatstyle attribute to sidebar for *5*.*1*.
COMPLETED

h. Norm to write up proposed content model for initializer.
COMPLETED

i. Norm to add subtitle to sidebar for *5*.*1*.
COMPLETED

j. Norm to determine OASIS requirements for charter updates.
COMPLETED

k. Norm to work with Mary to make Publishing Subcommittee
schema a Committee Working Draft.
CONTINUE

l. Norm to work with Keith and Scott to update the OASIS committee
site to make the Publishing Subcommittee Working Draft
publicly available.
CONTINUE

m. Norm to move *DocBook* *5*.0 into the OASIS process
for approval as an OASIS Standard.
COMPLETED

n. Dick will initiate an email discussion on how to
present content models using more compact syntax.
COMPLETED

o. Larry to work up an complete assembly example
with basic relationships.
CONTINUE

p. Norm to make available the "branding" icons he produced.
COMPLETED

q. Norm to incorporate Larry's new name element text into TDG.
COMPLETED

r. Norm to incorporate new @class attribute values for
othercredit into *5*.*1*.
COMPLETED



6. *DocBook* TC charter: news of update.

The recent vote regarding the charter changes passed unianimously.
Mary will announce it at some point.

7. *DocBook* *5*.0 standards update.

Norm submitted the information, and is waiting for Mary to
set up the OASIS ballot.

Norm is still looking for a more compact syntax for
the paper version of the *DocBook* *5*.0 Definitive Guide,
which O'Reilly may publish.

8. Policy for backwards compatible changes (Norm).

Norm posted his proposal [2].
There was one favorable comment.
It was moved and seconded to adopt the changes. APPROVED.

ACTION: Norm to put the new backwards compatibility policy in the spec.

ACTION: Norm to put the new backwards compatibility policy in the
reference documentation.

9. Publishing Subcommittee report.

Still trying to publish the working draft as a spec for review.

*10*. 

Request Info on DocBook

[Gary Schnabl]

Garnier Garnier wrote:
> Hello Listers,
>  
> I am about to explore DocBook. I am sure some of the listers must be using it 
> or have used it in the past. Could you please share your experience? Went 
> through some of the details over the net and it seems a good tool to switch 
> to but involves a very deep learning curve. Is there any plug-in available to 
> make things easier? I need to know this as some of the writers are not keen 
> to learn XML and would rather click buttons that would take care of what they 
> want to generate. The company will definitely not invest in training nor am I 
> aware of any institute/entity in India that imparts training in DocBook.
>  
> When I start exploring I will definitely join the DocBook user forum. Am 
> writing to this list as I need some firsthand information about the tool.
>  
> Any kind of related information is welcome.
>  
> TIA
> B/R
> Garnier
>   

In order to do DocBook XML, all you need is FrameMaker 7.0 or higher in 
order to do it fairly effortlessly--once you have your plan of action 
clearly thought out. An XML editor might make some of the work 
easier--for doing various tasks or for studying DocBook XML.

The older (2002 or so) Adobe documentation has some (some limited, some 
fairly detailed...) information on how to start. Basically, you need to 
take a DocBook DTD of one of the available versions: say, 4.1.2, 4.x (up 
to 4.5), or use the incomplete DocBook 5.0 DTD to start with. You can 
download them from various sources--the best being DocBook itself.

Then, you set up a simple structure application, using the appropriate 
files (read/write rules file, DTD file, struct-app file, etc.). Then use 
FrameMaker to generate an EDD file. In my case, I generated the most 
general EDD file (huge) that covers practically everything that 
FrameMaker can do, which you can reduce afterwards in order to apply one 
of more concise, especially formatted EDDs for your project. Or just 
keep using the huge general EDD. Your choice.

Gary

Re: What are the Ideal fonts for Windows and Linux?

[Gary Schnabl]

Garnier Garnier wrote:
 Hello Listers,
  
 I have a question:
  
 Which is the ideal font that is supported by all browsers, and on Windows and 
 Linux? 
  
 The html page that I am working on does not use any specific fonts or size. 
 The Heading uses the H2 tag and the body uses the body tag. Depending on the 
 browser used to open the page it would pick up the default font on both OS. 
 Now most system requirements at our end have changed on Linux due to which 
 the display is normal on Windows but not on Linux. On Linux the font size and 
 type has changed. The size is 70 and bold.
  
 B/R
 Garnier
   

For the browser part of your questions, you are probably aware of the 
vendor/user defaults for a particular user agent (browser) For example, 
for the FF 3.5 browser on Windows XP, the res\html.css file in the 
installation folder has its default settings. Other browsers work similarly.

As a rule, I use a reset CSS file in my PHP/XHTML websites to reset some 
of those default settings--using the following Tripoli CSS definitions:

Gary

|/*
Tripoli is a generic CSS standard for HTML rendering.
Copyright (C) 2007  David Hellsing

This program is free software: you can redistribute it and/or modify
it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published 
by the Free Software Foundation, either version 3 of the License, or
(at your option) any later version.

This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but
WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU
General Public License for more details.

You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
along with this program. If not, see http://www.gnu.org/licenses/.
*/

* {
  text-decoration: none;
  font-size: 1em;
  outline: none;
  padding: 0;
  margin: 0;
}
code, kbd, samp, pre, tt, var, textarea, input, select, isindex,
listing, xmp, plaintext {
  white-space: normal;
  font-size: 1em;
  font: inherit;
}
dfn, i, cite, var, address, em {
  font-style: normal;
}
th, b, strong, h1, h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
  font-weight: normal;
}
a, img, a img, iframe, form, fieldset, abbr, acronym, object,
applet, table {
  border: none;
}
table {
  border-collapse: collapse;
  border-spacing: 0;
}
caption, th, td, center {
  vertical-align: top;
  text-align: left;
}
body {
  background: white;
  line-height: 1;
  color: black;
}
q {
  quotes:  ;
}
ul, ol, dir, menu {
  list-style: none;
}
sub, sup {
  vertical-align: baseline;
}
a {
  color: inherit;
}
hr {
  display: none;
}
font {
  color: inherit !important;
  font: inherit !important;
  color: inherit !important;
}
marquee {
  overflow: inherit !important;
  -moz-binding: none;
}
blink {
  text-decoration: none;
}
nobr {
  white-space: normal;
}
|



___


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Re: Standard font for technical documentation

[Gary Schnabl]

syed.hos...@aeris.net wrote:
 For standard typefaces embedded in print PDF documents, I use Palatino
 
 Linotype for serifs, the new (free) Inconsolata-dk for monospaced, and
 any of a number of sans-serif typefaces--usually Arial, Verdana,
 Calibri., etc.

 Hi, Gary.

 Did you mean Inconsolata-dk or Incolsolata-dz? I have not seen the
 former ... just found the latter and will do some comparisons to my
 current favorite (see below).

 My fonts for printed technical documentation - these are always sent to
 customers in PDF files:

 1. Palatino Linotype for all body text. I used to use Palatino and
 discovered an unusual spacing problem with copyright, registered and
 trademark letters. The space after these characters is insufficient and
 they are too close to the first character of the next word. I don't know
 if others see it too and it is just a problem with the Palatino font I
 have - I can provide a PDF sample if anyone wants.

 2. Helvetica for all headers. I used to use Arial, but was clearly shown
 (in this list! :)) that Helvetica looks a lot better in larger sizes
 (like headers) and in printed form - better curves, etc.

 3. Consolas for monospaced code examples, etc. I used to use Courier,
 but after I discovered Consolas (in Word 2007) some years ago, I have
 not looked back!

 Z
   

My bad, as it was Inconsolata-dz. Helvetica is a Mac font for most 
systems--not on my XP Pro system.

A couple years ago, somebody ran a comparative study on various 
typefaces, including the seven or so new MS C typefaces. Palatino 
Linotype fared the best of the serifs. Forget TNR, unless a narrow 
newspaper-type typeface is desired for narrow columns.

Consolas may appear poorly unless ClearType is enabled, I understand.


Gary
___


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What are the Ideal fonts for Windows and Linux?

[Gary Schnabl]

Garnier Garnier wrote:
> Hello Listers,
>  
> I have a question:
>  
> Which is the ideal font that is supported by all browsers, and on Windows and 
> Linux? 
>  
> The html page that I am working on does not use any specific fonts or size. 
> The Heading uses the H2 tag and the body uses the body tag. Depending on the 
> browser used to open the page it would pick up the default font on both OS. 
> Now most system requirements at our end have changed on Linux due to which 
> the display is normal on Windows but not on Linux. On Linux the font size and 
> type has changed. The size is 70 and bold.
>  
> B/R
> Garnier
>   

For the browser part of your questions, you are probably aware of the 
vendor/user defaults for a particular user agent (browser) For example, 
for the FF 3.5 browser on Windows XP, the res\html.css file in the 
installation folder has its default settings. Other browsers work similarly.

As a rule, I use a reset CSS file in my PHP/XHTML websites to reset some 
of those default settings--using the following Tripoli CSS definitions:

Gary

|/*
Tripoli is a generic CSS standard for HTML rendering.
Copyright (C) 2007  David Hellsing

This program is free software: you can redistribute it and/or modify
it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published 
by the Free Software Foundation, either version 3 of the License, or
(at your option) any later version.

This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but
WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU
General Public License for more details.

You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
along with this program. If not, see .
*/

* {
  text-decoration: none;
  font-size: 1em;
  outline: none;
  padding: 0;
  margin: 0;
}
code, kbd, samp, pre, tt, var, textarea, input, select, isindex,
listing, xmp, plaintext {
  white-space: normal;
  font-size: 1em;
  font: inherit;
}
dfn, i, cite, var, address, em {
  font-style: normal;
}
th, b, strong, h1, h2, h3, h4, h5, h6 {
  font-weight: normal;
}
a, img, a img, iframe, form, fieldset, abbr, acronym, object,
applet, table {
  border: none;
}
table {
  border-collapse: collapse;
  border-spacing: 0;
}
caption, th, td, center {
  vertical-align: top;
  text-align: left;
}
body {
  background: white;
  line-height: 1;
  color: black;
}
q {
  quotes: "" "";
}
ul, ol, dir, menu {
  list-style: none;
}
sub, sup {
  vertical-align: baseline;
}
a {
  color: inherit;
}
hr {
  display: none;
}
font {
  color: inherit !important;
  font: inherit !important;
  color: inherit !important;
}
marquee {
  overflow: inherit !important;
  -moz-binding: none;
}
blink {
  text-decoration: none;
}
nobr {
  white-space: normal;
}
|

Standard font for technical documentation

[Gary Schnabl]

Reng, Dr. Winfried wrote:
> Hi,
>
>   
>> My _personal_ preference leans to the new MS fonts (Cambria, 
>> I think it 
>> was) that were released with Vista, based on having edited two papers
>> that used them and from an IEEE Spectrum article about the 
>> research involved
>> in their creation. I have not personally used the fonts (not 
>> available on
>> my older system), but the two documents did seem especially 
>> clear on screen 
>> without being distractingly different.
>> 
>
> Yesterday I read that some applications might have kerning
> problems with Cambria. This was noticed with "old" applications
> such as Word 2003 or Word 2007 (in compatibility mode) or
> FrameMaker. See here for an example:
> http://www.ernst-line.de/test/nanotruck.pdf
>
> The information is here (in German):
> http://www.typografie.info/typoforum/viewtopic.php?f=25=3137
>
> Michael M?ller-Hillebrand pointed this out in his (German) blog:
> http://cap-studio.de/wp/index.php/2009/07/calibri-cambria-candara-consolas-constantia-corbel/
>
> I did not test this myself.
>
> Best regards
>
> Winfried
>   

For standard typefaces embedded in print PDF documents, I use Palatino 
Linotype for serifs, the new (free) Inconsolata-dk for monospaced, and 
any of a number of sans-serif typefaces--usually Arial, Verdana, 
Calibri., etc.


Gary

Standard font for technical documentation

[Gary Schnabl]

Syed.Hosain at aeris.net wrote:
>> For standard typefaces embedded in print PDF documents, I use Palatino
>> 
> Linotype for serifs, the new (free) Inconsolata-dk for monospaced, and
> any of a number of sans-serif typefaces--usually Arial, Verdana,
> Calibri., etc.
>
> Hi, Gary.
>
> Did you mean Inconsolata-dk or Incolsolata-dz? I have not seen the
> former ... just found the latter and will do some comparisons to my
> current favorite (see below).
>
> My fonts for printed technical documentation - these are always sent to
> customers in PDF files:
>
> 1. Palatino Linotype for all body text. I used to use Palatino and
> discovered an unusual spacing problem with copyright, registered and
> trademark letters. The space after these characters is insufficient and
> they are too close to the first character of the next word. I don't know
> if others see it too and it is just a problem with the Palatino font I
> have - I can provide a PDF sample if anyone wants.
>
> 2. Helvetica for all headers. I used to use Arial, but was clearly shown
> (in this list! :)) that Helvetica looks a lot better in larger sizes
> (like headers) and in printed form - better curves, etc.
>
> 3. Consolas for monospaced code examples, etc. I used to use Courier,
> but after I discovered Consolas (in Word 2007) some years ago, I have
> not looked back!
>
> Z
>   

My bad, as it was Inconsolata-dz. Helvetica is a Mac font for most 
systems--not on my XP Pro system.

A couple years ago, somebody ran a comparative study on various 
typefaces, including the seven or so new MS "C" typefaces. Palatino 
Linotype fared the best of the serifs. Forget TNR, unless a narrow 
newspaper-type typeface is desired for narrow columns.

Consolas may appear poorly unless ClearType is enabled, I understand.


Gary

Re: Customer Support in Adobe is non-existent

[Gary Schnabl]

Garnier Garnier wrote:
 Hello Framers,
  
 Indeed sad to note that Adobe does not bother to resolve customer issues. We 
 have licensed version of Acrobat Pro 9.0 and our IT has filed a case ticket 
 as per the vendor/customer policy. Its over 10 days now but Adobe has not 
 responded yet. I am still not able to use FM 7.0’s Save as feature after 
 installing Acrobat Pro 9.0, inspite of trying all suggestions provided by the 
 Frame users. It does not work even on a brand new machine either that has 
 only these two tools installed.  As already mentioned keeping the number of 
 user guides in mind it is just feasible to use the watch folder option as 
 manually I anyway will have to distill each of the 350+  Frame books  nor do 
 I have the bandwidth to modify the script. I have switched to the old 
 distiller as that was the only option left that would help me meet the 
 deadline.
  
 Looks like customer support is non-existent in Adobe. I wish I had known this 
 before opting for Adobe products.
  
 Garnier
   
Adobe is not known for reliable customer service or support, or at least 
from my experience. Especially their offshored support...

However, the users in the forums on their website will often fix your 
problems. FWIW, I have reliable FM 7.0 functioning with Acrobat 8 Pro. 
However, I had to reinstall Pro 8 in order to do any updating past 
8.1.3--now at 8.1.6. No problems now.

Adobe had said that FM 7.0 would not work on Vista Ultimate. However, it 
worked just fine on mine for the past 30 months. I figured that Adobe 
was just trying to scare me into buying an upgrade...

Gary

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Customer Support in Adobe is non-existent

[Gary Schnabl]

Garnier Garnier wrote:
> Hello Framers,
>  
> Indeed sad to note that Adobe does not bother to resolve customer issues. We 
> have licensed version of Acrobat Pro 9.0 and our IT has filed a case ticket 
> as per the vendor/customer policy. Its over 10 days now but Adobe has not 
> responded yet. I am still not able to use FM 7.0?s Save as feature after 
> installing Acrobat Pro 9.0, inspite of trying all suggestions provided by the 
> Frame users. It does not work even on a brand new machine either that has 
> only these two tools installed.  As already mentioned keeping the number of 
> user guides in mind it is just feasible to use the watch folder option as 
> manually I anyway will have to distill each of the 350+  Frame books  nor do 
> I have the bandwidth to modify the script. I have switched to the old 
> distiller as that was the only option left that would help me meet the 
> deadline.
>  
> Looks like customer support is non-existent in Adobe. I wish I had known this 
> before opting for Adobe products.
>  
> Garnier
>   
Adobe is not known for reliable customer service or support, or at least 
from my experience. Especially their offshored support...

However, the users in the forums on their website will often fix your 
problems. FWIW, I have reliable FM 7.0 functioning with Acrobat 8 Pro. 
However, I had to reinstall Pro 8 in order to do any updating past 
8.1.3--now at 8.1.6. No problems now.

Adobe had said that FM 7.0 would not work on Vista Ultimate. However, it 
worked just fine on mine for the past 30 months. I figured that Adobe 
was just trying to scare me into buying an upgrade...

Gary

Re: FM8 version of XML Cookbook ?

[Gary Schnabl]

Diane Gaskill wrote:
 Hi Framers,

 I have the FM7 version of the XML cookbook and I am wondering if there is a
 version for FM8 or FM9.  Or am I wishing too hard?

 Thanks lots.

 Diane Gaskill
 Hitachi Data Systems
   

I had corrected a whole manure pile full of errors in the FM7 (and 
only?) version of that cookbook a couple years ago. Maybe I can dig them 
up when I clean house (See below.).

I lost the display on my T23 ThinkPad a few days ago and am just getting 
back up to speed after migrating everything important onto my older Dell 
backup and use that until I get a fast machine.


Gary

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FM8 version of XML Cookbook ?

[Gary Schnabl]

Diane Gaskill wrote:
> Hi Framers,
>
> I have the FM7 version of the XML cookbook and I am wondering if there is a
> version for FM8 or FM9.  Or am I wishing too hard?
>
> Thanks lots.
>
> Diane Gaskill
> Hitachi Data Systems
>   

I had corrected a whole manure pile full of errors in the FM7 (and 
only?) version of that cookbook a couple years ago. Maybe I can dig them 
up when I clean house (See below.).

I lost the display on my T23 ThinkPad a few days ago and am just getting 
back up to speed after migrating everything important onto my older Dell 
backup and use that until I get a fast machine.


Gary