RE: Framemaker and Translation
Wim, I cannot imagine why you think translation and the tools used to do it should not be discussed here. I have been answering questions about localzation on this list for 14 years. So many questions in fact, that I eventually compiled the answers to them into a small book, and at the request of the former listowner (Brad), made a presentation called Localization and Framemaker at the 2000 Frame Users conference. At least 500 people have either requested the book or downloaded it from the website. Regarding the tools (and yes, there are more than just Trados,) the more a writer knows about what happens to the files he or she creates, the better job they can do to prepare them for translation. While I would certainly agree that the primary topic on this list is FM, I would not think that a related topic to its use is OT on this list. Diane == -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Wim Hooghwinkel (Scriptware) Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 2:02 AM To: mathieu jacquet; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; framers@frameusers.com Subject: RE: Framemaker and Translation What is this, a Trados exposure? I think we should not discuss translation tools (there are other lists). I have been working in the localization for over 12 years now and it always comes down to the same: if the source files are not set up properly, meaning 'designed' and formatted with internationalization in mind, translation does not work out as expected and can cost a ot of money and effort - whatever tool or translation company you use. The other way round the same: once you have set up your documentation properly, translation is no pain at all, whatever tool used. Complex translation instruction kits as mentioned before won't be neccessary. My advise: keep it simple, standardize, re-use both content and formatting wherever possible. Met vriendelijke groet / kind regards, Wim Hooghwinkel [EMAIL PROTECTED] DTP and XML Management -Original Message- From: mathieu jacquet [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 11:53 PM To: Wim Hooghwinkel (Scriptware); [EMAIL PROTECTED]; framers@frameusers.com Subject: RE: Framemaker and Translation To be more precise, Trados (Trados 6.0 at least) can deal with the following formats : ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Framemaker and Translation
FrameUsers: I wanted to clarify the information on some of the pre-recorded webinars available from www.translate.com (ENLASO.) We have conducted a number of free webinars, several of which have centered on translating/localizing regular and structured FrameMaker documents. You can request any of the webinar recordings listed below (which are related to FrameMaker or general production) by sending an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] which included the title of the webinar. You can also register on www.translate.com for our periodic newsletter. We have an upcoming Webinar you may register for: June 29 @ 11:00 AM PDT A growing market: Non-English speakers in the US At (you may have to edit broken line endings if cutting/pasting this URL) : https://enlaso.webex.com/enlaso/mywebex/epmainframe.php?rlink=https%3A%2 F%2Fenlaso.webex.com%2Fenlaso%2Fonstage%2Fmainframe.php%3Fmainurl%3D%2Fe nlaso%2Fonstage%2Ftool%2Fevent%2Fevent_detail.php%3FEventID%3D277505067% 26FirstEnter%3D1%26GuestTimeZone%3D%26SourceId%3DRnd2424=0.355608612377 8569 https://enlaso.webex.com/enlaso/mywebex/epmainframe.php?rlink=https://e nlaso.webex.com/enlaso/onstage/mainframe.php?mainurl=/enlaso/onstage/too l/event/event_detail.php?EventID=277505067FirstEnter=1GuestTimeZone=S ourceId=Rnd2424=0.3556086123778569 PREVIOUS WEBINARS AVAILABLE: Structured FrameMaker with Doug Pearson: Description: This Webinar features expert localization engineer Doug Pearson in an intensive one-hour webinar that explores how structured FrameMaker7 files streamline multilingual publishing and product localization processes - improving overall project quality, cost, and turnaround. XML and Localization with Yves Savourel: Description: In an intensive one-hour webinar using dynamic examples and demonstrations, Yves Savourel explores the benefits and advantages of XML in localization, even when the localizable data is not in an XML format. The session also explores the translation of XML documents and how to overcome some of the challenges XML-enabled tools still offer. Successful Documentation Localization with Max Hoffmann: Description: The intensive one-hour Webinar explores fundamental documentation localization management concepts that improve processes, costs, and performance associated with multilingual global projects. Using dynamic examples and demonstrations, Hoffmann will provide fresh insights and solutions for successful documentation internationalization, localization, and translation-highlighting single-source strategies. Effective Localization Project Handoff Management with Yusuke Kirimoto: Description: In Olympic relay racing, the difference between first and second place in the sprint relays is usually measured in tenths or hundredths of a second. Therefore, precise execution of the handoff is paramount to success. Project handoffs in localization carry the same consequences as global companies sprint to maintain global market leadership. Localization projects require the coordination of myriad combinations of professionals and technologies facing complex linguistic, cultural, content, and technical challenges. Successful Documentation Localization Management - Part II with Max Hoffmann: Description: Successful Documentation Localization Management - Part II features again documentation expert Max Hoffmann. This intensive one-hour Webinar covers critical concepts essential to successful localization of documentation. Hoffman will also talk about checklists and recommendations that lead to improved processes, reduced costs, and successful delivery of multilingual global projects. Using dynamic examples and demonstrations, Hoffmann will provide further insights and solutions for successful documentation internationalization, localization, and translation. The Webinar will also cover single-source publishing solutions. Localization 101 - Where Do You Start And How Do You Go About It? with Yves Lang : Description: Localization 101, is designed for newer professionals who are responsible for the planning and execution of multilingual product development. The intensive one-hour Webinar presentation will explore fundamental localization management concepts that improve enterprise processes, costs, and performance. Maxwell Hoffmann Manager of Applications Engineering ENLASO Corporation T: 805 494 9571 * F: 805 435 1920 E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ENLASO Corporation provides quality enterprise language solutions and exceeds client expectations through continuing research, development, and implementation of effective localization processes and technologies. Visit: www.translate.com for more information or to subscribe to our complimentary localization newsletter. Message: 15 Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2006 19:38:05 + From: karyn hunt [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Framemaker and Translation To: framers@frameusers.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Another place to bone up quickly: There's a company called Enlaso that does
RE: Framemaker and Translation
What is this, a Trados exposure? I think we should not discuss translation tools (there are other lists). I have been working in the localization for over 12 years now and it always comes down to the same: if the source files are not set up properly, meaning 'designed' and formatted with internationalization in mind, translation does not work out as expected and can cost a ot of money and effort - whatever tool or translation company you use. The other way round the same: once you have set up your documentation properly, translation is no pain at all, whatever tool used. Complex translation instruction kits as mentioned before won't be neccessary. My advise: keep it simple, standardize, re-use both content and formatting wherever possible. Met vriendelijke groet / kind regards, Wim Hooghwinkel [EMAIL PROTECTED] DTP and XML Management Scriptware bv http://www.scriptware.nl tel : +31 (0)23 548 48 84 fax : +31 (0)23 548 48 85 http://www.scriptware.nl [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: mathieu jacquet [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 11:53 PM To: Wim Hooghwinkel (Scriptware); [EMAIL PROTECTED]; framers@frameusers.com Subject: RE: Framemaker and Translation To be more precise, Trados (Trados 6.0 at least) can deal with the following formats : ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Framemaker and Translation
The instructions Mathieu is referred to are part of what is usually called a localization kit. The kit includes all of the files you want translated + the instructions. The instructions explain what each file is, how the files are related (FM book + chapter files, etc.) where they are included in the zip files you send, and what you want done with the files. This is especialy true if you are having a product translated. You need to explain what you want translated and what you don't. For example, the internal markers (index, links, etc.) are never translated. The vendor should know that but it's good to make sure. You also should include a glossary of term used in your industry. I have a sample kit that includes all the details if you want it. The internal proofreaders are usually people in the offices located in the countries where the language(s) of the translated docs are spoken. it is often advantageous to include them in the process from the beginning. This and a lot more is explained in the book I told you about. Diane -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of mathieu jacquet Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 2:40 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; framers@frameusers.com Subject: RE: Framemaker and Translation Loren, I happen to work as a project manager as well as a translator (English to French ; Trados, Translation manager, Deja Vu, Fast Help Translation Assistant and so on...) and technical writer (English and French ; mostly FM and Word) in a multilingual documentation services company (translation, technical writing, multimedia communication, etc.) based in Toulouse, France. Ideally, what you just have to do is develop your documentation, using either Word or FM or whatever tool meets the needs of your documentation team, and then send your files, whatever the format (html, mif, xml, doc, rtf, idd...) , to the vendor. The vendor is supposed to take in charge the whole process of translation, from format conversions, creation and setting of the Translation Memory depending on your needs (if you don not have one already), alignment of existing multilingual documents (aligning a text means taking two similar texts, one in English and one in French and make their segments - i.e. sentences - correspond in order to feed a TM). If you send an HTML Web site page, then you'll receive an HTML Web site translated page ; send a pdf and you'll have the same pdf translated ; same thing for FM, Word documents, etc. You can also send a .doc and ask for a .pdf, and inversely. Possibilities are multiple. The biggest part your team will have to do is to prepare INSTRUCTIONS as regards : layout, products, software (are they translated or not ?), copyright, part numbers and revisions (references, same in English and in other languages..?), abbreviations (are they translated ..?), etc. The more precise the instructions, the faster and the more accurate the translation. Be sure to have available internal proofreaders at hand too... Hope this will help, do not hesitate to contact me for more information. Cheers, Mathieu. Mathieu Jacquet Raptrad-imagine (www.raptrad-imagine.com) Toulouse, France From: karyn hunt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: framers@frameusers.com Subject: RE: Framemaker and Translation Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2006 19:38:05 + Another place to bone up quickly: There's a company called Enlaso that does translations. They recently did a Webcast called Translation 101 in which they went over all the basics. I think they have that Webcast stored on their website. I found it tremendously helpful just in getting a broad overview of things to think about, what to look out for, what's involved, etc etc etc. Karyn From: Ann Zdunczyk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Diane Gaskill' [EMAIL PROTECTED],'Loren R. Elks' [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: 'Framers List' framers@frameusers.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED],[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Framemaker and Translation Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 12:58:59 -0400 Loren, I agree with everything that has been said so far. Definitely check with your vendor to make sure that they handle the technology that you are writing about. Some translation houses specialize in different technologies (Medical, Telecom, Legal, etc.) Trados by the way was based in Ireland and German if I remember correctly. It has now been purchased by SDL. If you have any other questions let me know. Z ** Ann Zdunczyk President a2z Publishing, Inc. Phone: (336)922-1271 Fax: (336) 922-4980 Cell: (336)456-4493 http://www.a2z-pub.com ** -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Diane Gaskill Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 12:47 PM To: 'Loren R. Elks' Cc: 'Framers List'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Framemaker and Translation Loren, all There is a book called Localization and Framemaker
RE: Framemaker and Translation
Hello Loren Before you start looking for a translation company have a look at your manuals and documentation and check if these are suited for translation. There are many guidelines available (on the internet, perform a search for 'guide to localization' or similar), also from FrameMaker users. Note that although your FrameMaker manuals may be set up to be perfectly printed or converted to PDF, there can be many issues that frustrate proper translation. Besides that, there are many issues to consider: illustrations, software screens, software strings (menu items refered to in the manuals), on line help, etc. You should take all this into account when designing your international documentation. FrameMaker files can be saved as MIF and all translation tools can use MIF files as input for translation, thus generating a translated MIF file that can be opened in FrameMaker again. Basically all text will be replaced by translated text, while keeping all formatting. But be aware that the results may not be as expected when the documents are not properly prepared. For example all 'tweaked' formatting and manual overrides (hard returns, extra spaces) are maintained - the length of other languages will differ from English text so results can be awkward (Spanish text will take at least 140% more space then English text). If you don't use FrameMaker yet, you could consider to start creating XML and publish using FrameMaker (or any other tool). XML can be translated easily as well. You can contact me off list if you need any further help on this. Met vriendelijke groet / kind regards, Wim Hooghwinkel [EMAIL PROTECTED] DTP and XML Management Scriptware bv http://www.scriptware.nl tel : +31 (0)23 548 48 84 fax : +31 (0)23 548 48 85 http://www.scriptware.nl [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Translation | DTP | Technical Writing | Content Management | Consultancy From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Loren R. Elks Sent: 06 June 2006 15:02 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Framers List Subject: Framemaker and Translation We are beginning to have to get our manuals and documentation translated. What's the best way to set up this workflow. For example, do we develop in FM, then output to another format (say RTF,etc), the translators use this format, we get it back, then convert back with FM? Sincerely, Loren ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: Framemaker and Translation
We are beginning to have to get our manuals and documentation translated. What's the best way to set up this workflow. As your translation company for their advice...they have some experience in this process. John Posada Senior Technical Writer So long and thanks for all the fish. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Framemaker and Translation
Hi Steve, I've been reading this thread with interest as our documentation (FM) is going to be translated into German and Japonese starting in January 2007. The people at the other end are distributors who are going to have to put together an efficient workflow. You mention in your comment being able to provide details...I am very interested... Thanks. At 10:45 AM 6/6/2006, Steve Wiseman wrote: We use translators that can take the FM files and return them as FM files including any marker and conditional text in the document. If you want details, please let me know. We have been happy with the results. I recommend them as they use translators in the destination country rather than locals from here. For your information, they use an application called Trados that imports MIF files. Best regards, Steve Steve Wiseman CEO, Context Documentation and Interactive Services Official MIF2GO Resellers and Trainers www.context.co.il Tel (Isr): +972-2-999-7816 (UK): +44-845-244-7802 Mob: +972-522-341-957 Skype: zusman -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Loren R. Elks Sent: 06 June 2006 15:02 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Framers List Subject: Framemaker and Translation We are beginning to have to get our manuals and documentation translated. What's the best way to set up this workflow. For example, do we develop in FM, then output to another format (say RTF,etc), the translators use this format, we get it back, then convert back with FM? Sincerely, Loren ** To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** ** with unsubscribe framers (no quotes) in the body. ** -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.2/356 - Release Date: 05/06/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.2/356 - Release Date: 05/06/2006 ** To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** ** with unsubscribe framers (no quotes) in the body. ** Stephen O'Brien Documentation/Technical Writer InnovMetric Logiciels (Software) Inc. 1-418-688-2061 ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: Framemaker and Translation
Loren, all There is a book called Localization and Framemaker that explains the basics of localization, tells you how to find, screen, and hire the RIGHT vendor for the work you are doing, what you need to provide to the vendor to get a good estimate for your job, how to work with the vendor, and explains what the vendor can actually do for you. It explains the localization process (what the vendor does with your files) and contains a table of prices that you can use to get a fairly good idea of how much you can expect to pay for their services. The book is a 24-page pdf file that you can download free from http://www.bapmf.net/resources/2000_localization_FM/locindex.html Note that ALL localization vendors can take a set of FM files and give you the same set of FM files back, translated into as many target languages as you desire. Incidentally, Trados is a company based here in the Silicon Valley, not an application. Trados makes a set of software tools, including the S-tagger and the Translators Workbench, that is the industry standard toolset today. But it is not the only set of tools on the market and some vendors use other tools instead, including home-grown ones. Some of these tools are compatible with each other and some are not. When you talk to the vindor, find out which toolset they use and ask about compatibility with the Trados toolset, and particularly about the TM. TM = translation memory - a database that stores translated words, phrases, and paragraphs. Using the TM is optional, and little more expensive if they use it to start with, but can save you a lot of $ when upgrading your docs, online help, software, etc. They just pull the already translated text out of the TM and add the changes. BTW, the data in the TM is something that you own, not the vendor, and they should give it to you when the job is finished. That way, if you change vendors, you can continue from where you left off and not pay to have the whole doc translated again. Hope this helps. Diane = -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Stephen O'Brien Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 7:44 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'Loren R. Elks'; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 'Framers List' Subject: RE: Framemaker and Translation Hi Steve, I've been reading this thread with interest as our documentation (FM) is going to be translated into German and Japonese starting in January 2007. The people at the other end are distributors who are going to have to put together an efficient workflow. You mention in your comment being able to provide details...I am very interested... Thanks. At 10:45 AM 6/6/2006, Steve Wiseman wrote: We use translators that can take the FM files and return them as FM files including any marker and conditional text in the document. If you want details, please let me know. We have been happy with the results. I recommend them as they use translators in the destination country rather than locals from here. For your information, they use an application called Trados that imports MIF files. Best regards, Steve Steve Wiseman CEO, Context Documentation and Interactive Services Official MIF2GO Resellers and Trainers www.context.co.il Tel (Isr): +972-2-999-7816 (UK): +44-845-244-7802 Mob: +972-522-341-957 Skype: zusman -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Loren R. Elks Sent: 06 June 2006 15:02 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Framers List Subject: Framemaker and Translation We are beginning to have to get our manuals and documentation translated. What's the best way to set up this workflow. For example, do we develop in FM, then output to another format (say RTF,etc), the translators use this format, we get it back, then convert back with FM? Sincerely, Loren ** To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** ** with unsubscribe framers (no quotes) in the body. ** -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.2/356 - Release Date: 05/06/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.2/356 - Release Date: 05/06/2006 ** To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** ** with unsubscribe framers (no quotes) in the body. ** Stephen O'Brien Documentation/Technical Writer InnovMetric Logiciels (Software) Inc. 1-418-688-2061 ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL PROTECTED] Send list messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/dgcaller%40earthlink.net Send administrative questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to Framers as [EMAIL
RE: Framemaker and Translation
Loren, I agree with everything that has been said so far. Definitely check with your vendor to make sure that they handle the technology that you are writing about. Some translation houses specialize in different technologies (Medical, Telecom, Legal, etc.) Trados by the way was based in Ireland and German if I remember correctly. It has now been purchased by SDL. If you have any other questions let me know. Z ** Ann Zdunczyk President a2z Publishing, Inc. Phone: (336)922-1271 Fax: (336) 922-4980 Cell: (336)456-4493 http://www.a2z-pub.com ** -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Diane Gaskill Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 12:47 PM To: 'Loren R. Elks' Cc: 'Framers List'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Framemaker and Translation Loren, all There is a book called Localization and Framemaker that explains the basics of localization, tells you how to find, screen, and hire the RIGHT vendor for the work you are doing, what you need to provide to the vendor to get a good estimate for your job, how to work with the vendor, and explains what the vendor can actually do for you. It explains the localization process (what the vendor does with your files) and contains a table of prices that you can use to get a fairly good idea of how much you can expect to pay for their services. The book is a 24-page pdf file that you can download free from http://www.bapmf.net/resources/2000_localization_FM/locindex.html Note that ALL localization vendors can take a set of FM files and give you the same set of FM files back, translated into as many target languages as you desire. Incidentally, Trados is a company based here in the Silicon Valley, not an application. Trados makes a set of software tools, including the S-tagger and the Translators Workbench, that is the industry standard toolset today. But it is not the only set of tools on the market and some vendors use other tools instead, including home-grown ones. Some of these tools are compatible with each other and some are not. When you talk to the vindor, find out which toolset they use and ask about compatibility with the Trados toolset, and particularly about the TM. TM = translation memory - a database that stores translated words, phrases, and paragraphs. Using the TM is optional, and little more expensive if they use it to start with, but can save you a lot of $ when upgrading your docs, online help, software, etc. They just pull the already translated text out of the TM and add the changes. BTW, the data in the TM is something that you own, not the vendor, and they should give it to you when the job is finished. That way, if you change vendors, you can continue from where you left off and not pay to have the whole doc translated again. Hope this helps. Diane = -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Stephen O'Brien Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 7:44 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'Loren R. Elks'; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 'Framers List' Subject: RE: Framemaker and Translation Hi Steve, I've been reading this thread with interest as our documentation (FM) is going to be translated into German and Japonese starting in January 2007. The people at the other end are distributors who are going to have to put together an efficient workflow. You mention in your comment being able to provide details...I am very interested... Thanks. At 10:45 AM 6/6/2006, Steve Wiseman wrote: We use translators that can take the FM files and return them as FM files including any marker and conditional text in the document. If you want details, please let me know. We have been happy with the results. I recommend them as they use translators in the destination country rather than locals from here. For your information, they use an application called Trados that imports MIF files. Best regards, Steve Steve Wiseman CEO, Context Documentation and Interactive Services Official MIF2GO Resellers and Trainers www.context.co.il Tel (Isr): +972-2-999-7816 (UK): +44-845-244-7802 Mob: +972-522-341-957 Skype: zusman -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Loren R. Elks Sent: 06 June 2006 15:02 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Framers List Subject: Framemaker and Translation We are beginning to have to get our manuals and documentation translated. What's the best way to set up this workflow. For example, do we develop in FM, then output to another format (say RTF,etc), the translators use this format, we get it back, then convert back with FM? Sincerely, Loren ** To unsubscribe, send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** ** with unsubscribe framers (no quotes) in the body. ** -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version
RE: Framemaker and Translation
Another place to bone up quickly: There's a company called Enlaso that does translations. They recently did a Webcast called Translation 101 in which they went over all the basics. I think they have that Webcast stored on their website. I found it tremendously helpful just in getting a broad overview of things to think about, what to look out for, what's involved, etc etc etc. Karyn From: Ann Zdunczyk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Diane Gaskill' [EMAIL PROTECTED],'Loren R. Elks' [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: 'Framers List' framers@frameusers.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED],[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Framemaker and Translation Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 12:58:59 -0400 Loren, I agree with everything that has been said so far. Definitely check with your vendor to make sure that they handle the technology that you are writing about. Some translation houses specialize in different technologies (Medical, Telecom, Legal, etc.) Trados by the way was based in Ireland and German if I remember correctly. It has now been purchased by SDL. If you have any other questions let me know. Z ** Ann Zdunczyk President a2z Publishing, Inc. Phone: (336)922-1271 Fax: (336) 922-4980 Cell: (336)456-4493 http://www.a2z-pub.com ** -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Diane Gaskill Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 12:47 PM To: 'Loren R. Elks' Cc: 'Framers List'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Framemaker and Translation Loren, all There is a book called Localization and Framemaker that explains the basics of localization, tells you how to find, screen, and hire the RIGHT vendor for the work you are doing, what you need to provide to the vendor to get a good estimate for your job, how to work with the vendor, and explains what the vendor can actually do for you. It explains the localization process (what the vendor does with your files) and contains a table of prices that you can use to get a fairly good idea of how much you can expect to pay for their services. The book is a 24-page pdf file that you can download free from http://www.bapmf.net/resources/2000_localization_FM/locindex.html Note that ALL localization vendors can take a set of FM files and give you the same set of FM files back, translated into as many target languages as you desire. Incidentally, Trados is a company based here in the Silicon Valley, not an application. Trados makes a set of software tools, including the S-tagger and the Translators Workbench, that is the industry standard toolset today. But it is not the only set of tools on the market and some vendors use other tools instead, including home-grown ones. Some of these tools are compatible with each other and some are not. When you talk to the vindor, find out which toolset they use and ask about compatibility with the Trados toolset, and particularly about the TM. TM = translation memory - a database that stores translated words, phrases, and paragraphs. Using the TM is optional, and little more expensive if they use it to start with, but can save you a lot of $ when upgrading your docs, online help, software, etc. They just pull the already translated text out of the TM and add the changes. BTW, the data in the TM is something that you own, not the vendor, and they should give it to you when the job is finished. That way, if you change vendors, you can continue from where you left off and not pay to have the whole doc translated again. Hope this helps. Diane = -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Stephen O'Brien Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 7:44 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'Loren R. Elks'; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 'Framers List' Subject: RE: Framemaker and Translation Hi Steve, I've been reading this thread with interest as our documentation (FM) is going to be translated into German and Japonese starting in January 2007. The people at the other end are distributors who are going to have to put together an efficient workflow. You mention in your comment being able to provide details...I am very interested... Thanks. At 10:45 AM 6/6/2006, Steve Wiseman wrote: We use translators that can take the FM files and return them as FM files including any marker and conditional text in the document. If you want details, please let me know. We have been happy with the results. I recommend them as they use translators in the destination country rather than locals from here. For your information, they use an application called Trados that imports MIF files. Best regards, Steve Steve Wiseman CEO, Context Documentation and Interactive Services Official MIF2GO Resellers and Trainers www.context.co.il Tel (Isr): +972-2-999-7816 (UK): +44-845-244-7802 Mob: +972-522-341-957 Skype: zusman -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL
RE: Framemaker and Translation
Hi Ann, You are right, SDL did purchase Trados. According to the SDL website, they have two offices in Ireland, including a technology center. However, I was told by the TRADOS tech pubs manager, whom I met at a BAPMF meeting a couple of months ago, that they have relocated their headquarters to the USA. As I recall, she said it was here, but I cannot confirm this by the SDL website, because SDL does not show specific offices labeled Trados. Everything says SDL. SDL lists their USA headquarters in Plano Texas, and there is a page on the SDL website that explains the acquisition. One additional note to what Ann said. In addition to specializing in a particular technology, some L10N vendors also specialize in specific languages (Asian or European, for example). Be sure to ask about that when you talk to a vendor you are considering. Diane -Original Message- From: Ann Zdunczyk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 9:59 AM To: 'Diane Gaskill'; 'Loren R. Elks' Cc: 'Framers List'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Framemaker and Translation Loren, I agree with everything that has been said so far. Definitely check with your vendor to make sure that they handle the technology that you are writing about. Some translation houses specialize in different technologies (Medical, Telecom, Legal, etc.) Trados by the way was based in Ireland and German if I remember correctly. It has now been purchased by SDL. If you have any other questions let me know. Z ** Ann Zdunczyk President a2z Publishing, Inc. Phone: (336)922-1271 Fax: (336) 922-4980 Cell: (336)456-4493 http://www.a2z-pub.com ** -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Diane Gaskill Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 12:47 PM To: 'Loren R. Elks' Cc: 'Framers List'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Framemaker and Translation Loren, all There is a book called Localization and Framemaker that explains the basics of localization, tells you how to find, screen, and hire the RIGHT vendor for the work you are doing, what you need to provide to the vendor to get a good estimate for your job, how to work with the vendor, and explains what the vendor can actually do for you. It explains the localization process (what the vendor does with your files) and contains a table of prices that you can use to get a fairly good idea of how much you can expect to pay for their services. The book is a 24-page pdf file that you can download free from http://www.bapmf.net/resources/2000_localization_FM/locindex.html Note that ALL localization vendors can take a set of FM files and give you the same set of FM files back, translated into as many target languages as you desire. Incidentally, Trados is a company based here in the Silicon Valley, not an application. Trados makes a set of software tools, including the S-tagger and the Translators Workbench, that is the industry standard toolset today. But it is not the only set of tools on the market and some vendors use other tools instead, including home-grown ones. Some of these tools are compatible with each other and some are not. When you talk to the vindor, find out which toolset they use and ask about compatibility with the Trados toolset, and particularly about the TM. TM = translation memory - a database that stores translated words, phrases, and paragraphs. Using the TM is optional, and little more expensive if they use it to start with, but can save you a lot of $ when upgrading your docs, online help, software, etc. They just pull the already translated text out of the TM and add the changes. BTW, the data in the TM is something that you own, not the vendor, and they should give it to you when the job is finished. That way, if you change vendors, you can continue from where you left off and not pay to have the whole doc translated again. Hope this helps. Diane = -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Stephen O'Brien Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 7:44 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'Loren R. Elks'; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 'Framers List' Subject: RE: Framemaker and Translation Hi Steve, I've been reading this thread with interest as our documentation (FM) is going to be translated into German and Japonese starting in January 2007. The people at the other end are distributors who are going to have to put together an efficient workflow. You mention in your comment being able to provide details...I am very interested... Thanks. At 10:45 AM 6/6/2006, Steve Wiseman wrote: We use translators that can take the FM files and return them as FM files including any marker and conditional text in the document. If you want details, please let me know. We have been happy with the results. I
RE: Framemaker and Translation
Loren, I happen to work as a project manager as well as a translator (English to French ; Trados, Translation manager, Deja Vu, Fast Help Translation Assistant and so on...) and technical writer (English and French ; mostly FM and Word) in a multilingual documentation services company (translation, technical writing, multimedia communication, etc.) based in Toulouse, France. Ideally, what you just have to do is develop your documentation, using either Word or FM or whatever tool meets the needs of your documentation team, and then send your files, whatever the format (html, mif, xml, doc, rtf, idd...) , to the vendor. The vendor is supposed to take in charge the whole process of translation, from format conversions, creation and setting of the Translation Memory depending on your needs (if you don not have one already), alignment of existing multilingual documents (aligning a text means taking two similar texts, one in English and one in French and make their segments - i.e. sentences - correspond in order to feed a TM). If you send an HTML Web site page, then you'll receive an HTML Web site translated page ; send a pdf and you'll have the same pdf translated ; same thing for FM, Word documents, etc. You can also send a .doc and ask for a .pdf, and inversely. Possibilities are multiple. The biggest part your team will have to do is to prepare INSTRUCTIONS as regards : layout, products, software (are they translated or not ?), copyright, part numbers and revisions (references, same in English and in other languages..?), abbreviations (are they translated ..?), etc. The more precise the instructions, the faster and the more accurate the translation. Be sure to have available internal proofreaders at hand too... Hope this will help, do not hesitate to contact me for more information. Cheers, Mathieu. Mathieu Jacquet Raptrad-imagine (www.raptrad-imagine.com) Toulouse, France From: karyn hunt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: framers@frameusers.com Subject: RE: Framemaker and Translation Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2006 19:38:05 + Another place to bone up quickly: There's a company called Enlaso that does translations. They recently did a Webcast called Translation 101 in which they went over all the basics. I think they have that Webcast stored on their website. I found it tremendously helpful just in getting a broad overview of things to think about, what to look out for, what's involved, etc etc etc. Karyn From: Ann Zdunczyk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Diane Gaskill' [EMAIL PROTECTED],'Loren R. Elks' [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: 'Framers List' framers@frameusers.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED],[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Framemaker and Translation Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 12:58:59 -0400 Loren, I agree with everything that has been said so far. Definitely check with your vendor to make sure that they handle the technology that you are writing about. Some translation houses specialize in different technologies (Medical, Telecom, Legal, etc.) Trados by the way was based in Ireland and German if I remember correctly. It has now been purchased by SDL. If you have any other questions let me know. Z ** Ann Zdunczyk President a2z Publishing, Inc. Phone: (336)922-1271 Fax: (336) 922-4980 Cell: (336)456-4493 http://www.a2z-pub.com ** -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Diane Gaskill Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 12:47 PM To: 'Loren R. Elks' Cc: 'Framers List'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Framemaker and Translation Loren, all There is a book called Localization and Framemaker that explains the basics of localization, tells you how to find, screen, and hire the RIGHT vendor for the work you are doing, what you need to provide to the vendor to get a good estimate for your job, how to work with the vendor, and explains what the vendor can actually do for you. It explains the localization process (what the vendor does with your files) and contains a table of prices that you can use to get a fairly good idea of how much you can expect to pay for their services. The book is a 24-page pdf file that you can download free from http://www.bapmf.net/resources/2000_localization_FM/locindex.html Note that ALL localization vendors can take a set of FM files and give you the same set of FM files back, translated into as many target languages as you desire. Incidentally, Trados is a company based here in the Silicon Valley, not an application. Trados makes a set of software tools, including the S-tagger and the Translators Workbench, that is the industry standard toolset today. But it is not the only set of tools on the market and some vendors use other tools instead, including home-grown ones. Some of these tools are compatible with each other and some are not. When you talk to the vindor, find
