RE: why is FM's UI so weird and buggy?
The kind of UI thing that bugs me is this: You have two documents tiled on the screen. You are in the left side document with your cursor in a paragraph that you want to retag. You slide your mouse over to the docked paragraph catalog (which is open on the right side of the screen) and click on a paragraph tag to apply it. Instead of applying it in the left hand document, you new tag is applied in the right hand document. Maddening! I have had to learn that to get my cursor over to the dock at the right, I must first take the cursor up or down into the margin so as the cursor moves to the right it *never passes across* the right hand document. (Every once in awhile I forget and then DAMN, FrameMaker did it to me yet again!)___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: why is FM's UI so weird and buggy?
Adobe's OWL UI doesn't look or feel much like Office 2010 to me. On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 8:19 PM, qui...@airmail.net wrote: The interface on all the other products, even those that support the Mac OS are slavishly devoted to Microsoft design efforts. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: why is FM's UI so weird and buggy?
The kind of UI thing that bugs me is this: You have two documents tiled on the screen. You are in the left side document with your cursor in a paragraph that you want to retag. You slide your mouse over to the docked paragraph catalog (which is open on the right side of the screen) and click on a paragraph tag to apply it. Instead of applying it in the left hand document, you new tag is applied in the right hand document. Maddening! Craig Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2013 08:28:40 -0800 Subject: Re: why is FM's UI so weird and buggy? From: rob...@lauriston.com To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Adobe's OWL UI doesn't look or feel much like Office 2010 to me. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: why is FM's UI so weird and buggy?
Craig, if you haven't already, you should report that bug. I checked in my copy of FM10, and get the same behavior. You can report it here: http://www.adobe.com/misc/bugreport.html Mike Wickham On 3/5/2013 9:45 AM, Craig Ede wrote: The kind of UI thing that bugs me is this: You have two documents tiled on the screen. You are in the left side document with your cursor in a paragraph that you want to retag. You slide your mouse over to the docked paragraph catalog (which is open on the right side of the screen) and click on a paragraph tag to apply it. Instead of applying it in the left hand document, you new tag is applied in the right hand document. Maddening! ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: why is FM's UI so weird and buggy?
You have to understand that even what UI experience they had with the Mac they threw away when they orphaned the Mac OS on FrameMaker. It's been solid windows since Version 8. They took the Microsoft design philosophy to heart and are busy fixing things that aren't broken. Including the UI. The interface on all the other products, even those that support the Mac OS are slavishly devoted to Microsoft design efforts. Scott Karen Robbins wrote: I don't think Adobe's UI work has anything to do with Macs. In fact, it seems to be the antithesis of Mac UI design! :-) Recent/current versions of FM's UI (and those of other Adobe products) apparently do not make comprehensible use of usability research! The complaints I read on this list frequently point to how the bad UI interferes with and requires extra steps to workflow. For the complex projects of Adobe's target FM users, one would think that exceptionally efficient and intuitive workflow would be demanded and required. From a user's standpoint, consistency at the expense of usability is, at best, ineffective. As long as we keep using this (and all) Adobe products--and do so without creative and instructional criticism, their UIs will continue to be designed ineffectively. Only when users speak up with voices and dollars [insert your local currency here] is there a chance for the UI to improve. --Karen ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as qui...@airmail.net. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/quills%40airmail.net Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: why is FM's UI so weird and buggy?
I have never been pleased with the pods that FM introduced in FM9. They are not standard Windows dialog boxes, which limits the use of automation tools like AutoIt and are not as stable as the standard dialog box method. It's sad that Adobe chose to put look and feel ahead of functionality. When someone is using a program for several hours a day, they want it to work well. I don't think they give a darn as to whether it looks like other Adobe products. Please get your act together Adobe; trash the pods and go back to standard Windows dialog boxes. Regards, Shmuel Wolfson Technical Writer 052-763-7133 On 26-Feb-13 9:28 PM, Robert Lauriston wrote: Thinking about the bizarre UI bugs Rick Quatro reported today, I'm wondering how the product got to this sad state. FM started out on Unix, and a lot of dialogs seem like they haven't changed since then, or at least not since the original Mac and Windows ports in 1990 and 1992. But that stuff was pretty much rock-solid up through FM8. My impression is that the UI changes Adobe introduced in FM9 were made using the Adobe OS Widget Library (OWL), which is designed to provide a consistent UI for the Mac and Windows versions of Adobe's products. Unlike most of those products, FM has no Mac version. If Adobe's QA is done primarily on Macs, that could explain why the product has been getting buggier and weirder with each release. All the cross-platform apps could benefit from a shared library of tools, while FrameMaker and any other Windows-only apps would need additional work that the budget might not allow. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as shmue...@gmail.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/shmuelw1%40gmail.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: why is FM's UI so weird and buggy?
I can understand that Adobe tries to have the same consistent UI across all its products. And yes, we all go with the flow as software and UIs evolve, so I have grown accustomed to the new look, but my main concern is productivity. Each new version of FrameMaker seems to require more clicks to get something done: - Click Apply (hate that button) - Close pods/panels/consoles - More submenus (e.g. Table Format ...) - Slower, longer or broken shortcuts: F9, F8, CTRL+1... To see a master page in Fm 10, it takes ALT+v+m; in Fm 11 this takes ALT+v+m+m+ENTER. - Are you sure you want to reset this workspace to its original layout? Sure I am, why do you think I chose the Reset Workspace command? - Preferences Interface Use GreyScale Application Icon. Huh? Really? I guess/hope this is some kind of easter egg? I hope Adobe will pay some more attention to this for the next (patch) release. Cheers Yves ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: why is FM's UI so weird and buggy?
I started using Frame at version 9. I found the previous interface(s) to be awkward, weird, and intimidating, as did some of my colleagues. I tried at version 4 and put it away. I'm not delighted with everything about the pods interface, and the bugs are definitely troubling, but it seems to me that Adobe was trying to please (impress?) a new crop of users. It worked with me. In general, I enjoy the flexibility of the new interface, and I can always reset the workspace to my liking. It's a major improvement from my point of view. Just one person's opinion. C'est la vie. Jack DeLand, CSM | 734 972 3026 (cell) | jack.deland (skype) | www.linkedin.com/in/jackdeland ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: why is FM's UI so weird and buggy?
I don't think Adobe's UI work has anything to do with Macs. In fact, it seems to be the antithesis of Mac UI design! :-) Recent/current versions of FM's UI (and those of other Adobe products) apparently do not make comprehensible use of usability research! The complaints I read on this list frequently point to how the bad UI interferes with and requires extra steps to workflow. For the complex projects of Adobe's target FM users, one would think that exceptionally efficient and intuitive workflow would be demanded and required. From a user's standpoint, consistency at the expense of usability is, at best, ineffective. As long as we keep using this (and all) Adobe products--and do so without creative and instructional criticism, their UIs will continue to be designed ineffectively. Only when users speak up with voices and dollars [insert your local currency here] is there a chance for the UI to improve. --Karen ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: why is FM's UI so weird and buggy?
Hi, OK. It should never happen, that some features do not work. Or that features/shortcut keys get broken. However, the new interface really offers some very useful dialogs. For example: o Checking all references with the Insets pod. o Checking cross-references with the Cross-references pod. o Checking occurences of conditional text with the Add/edit conditional tag pod. I like it that such information is at hand and ordered at the bottom or at the right of my monitor. Yes. Some steps could be more intuitive. However, that's not the end of the world. (I use FrameMaker for 20 years now and work with FrameMaker 10 for a year.) Best regards Winfried -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers- boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Karen Robbins Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 8:14 PM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: why is FM's UI so weird and buggy? I don't think Adobe's UI work has anything to do with Macs. In fact, it seems to be the antithesis of Mac UI design! :-) Recent/current versions of FM's UI (and those of other Adobe products) apparently do not make comprehensible use of usability research! The complaints I read on this list frequently point to how the bad UI interferes with and requires extra steps to workflow. For the complex projects of Adobe's target FM users, one would think that exceptionally efficient and intuitive workflow would be demanded and required. From a user's standpoint, consistency at the expense of usability is, at best, ineffective. As long as we keep using this (and all) Adobe products--and do so without creative and instructional criticism, their UIs will continue to be designed ineffectively. Only when users speak up with voices and dollars [insert your local currency here] is there a chance for the UI to improve. --Karen This e-mail contains privileged and confidential information intended for the use of the addressees named above. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that you must not disseminate, copy or take any action in respect of any information contained in it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and immediately destroy this e-mail and its attachments. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.