Re: [Framework-Team] Supported Plone Releases
my question is: how can the fwt decide this question if the key issue is the available man power and willingness to perform the actual support for a particular version. we can decide to support 2.5 but that alone doesn't make it so. personally, alec's statement would be enough for me to have 2.5 officially supported, but that's just a gut feeling based on my past experiences with the man ;-) it's certainly not an informed decision. how should or rather how could we possibly handle such a question? pondering in bristol, tom On 10.12.2008, at 21:57, Jon Stahl wrote: -Original Message- From: framework-team-boun...@lists.plone.org [mailto:framework-team- boun...@lists.plone.org] On Behalf Of Wichert Akkerman Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 12:53 PM To: framework-team@lists.plone.org Subject: Re: [Framework-Team] Supported Plone Releases Previously Jon Stahl wrote: -Original Message- From: framework-team-boun...@lists.plone.org [mailto:framework-team- boun...@lists.plone.org] On Behalf Of Steve McMahon Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 8:31 AM To: Framework Team Subject: Re: [Framework-Team] Supported Plone Releases Why bring this up on the framework team list? The framework team is not a governing body. Then, who is? I certainly think that if the framework team makes a decision on this, it would be widely respected and supported. I think that the PF Board would prefer not to make the decision, in order to continue the tradition of the board not governing development. And, I think the developer list is way too wide open. +1, I believe the board would vastly prefer not to set the precedent of making technical decisions about Plone. The Foundation "protects and promotes"; the community develops. :-) But this is not a technical decision at all. This is a decision about our ability and willpower to dedicate resources (skilled manpower) to accopmlish something. True enough. But I think there is a long-standing consensus that decisions regarding what software gets built and released should rest with the community, not the board. And the "center of consensus" in the community is the framework team, especially for decisions that require focused effort from a few highly skilled people. Like I said, I think the board is in generally in favor of this. But that's different from us "deciding" to continue making security fixes to 2.5.x. The community needs to decide to do that if feels it can/ should. And I think the community will tend to follow the framework team's lead here. :jon ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
RE: [Framework-Team] Supported Plone Releases
> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:framework-team- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wichert Akkerman > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 12:53 PM > To: framework-team@lists.plone.org > Subject: Re: [Framework-Team] Supported Plone Releases > > Previously Jon Stahl wrote: > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:framework-team- > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve McMahon > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 8:31 AM > > > To: Framework Team > > > Subject: Re: [Framework-Team] Supported Plone Releases > > > > > > > Why bring this up on the framework team list? The framework team is > > not > > > > a governing body. > > > > > > Then, who is? I certainly think that if the framework team makes a > > > decision on this, it would be widely respected and supported. > > > > > > I think that the PF Board would prefer not to make the decision, in > > > order to continue the tradition of the board not governing > > > development. And, I think the developer list is way too wide open. > > > > +1, I believe the board would vastly prefer not to set the precedent of > > making technical decisions about Plone. The Foundation "protects and > > promotes"; the community develops. :-) > > But this is not a technical decision at all. This is a decision about > our ability and willpower to dedicate resources (skilled manpower) to > accopmlish something. True enough. But I think there is a long-standing consensus that decisions regarding what software gets built and released should rest with the community, not the board. And the "center of consensus" in the community is the framework team, especially for decisions that require focused effort from a few highly skilled people. Like I said, I think the board is in generally in favor of this. But that's different from us "deciding" to continue making security fixes to 2.5.x. The community needs to decide to do that if feels it can/should. And I think the community will tend to follow the framework team's lead here. :jon ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
Re: [Framework-Team] Supported Plone Releases
Previously Jon Stahl wrote: > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:framework-team- > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve McMahon > > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 8:31 AM > > To: Framework Team > > Subject: Re: [Framework-Team] Supported Plone Releases > > > > > Why bring this up on the framework team list? The framework team is > not > > > a governing body. > > > > Then, who is? I certainly think that if the framework team makes a > > decision on this, it would be widely respected and supported. > > > > I think that the PF Board would prefer not to make the decision, in > > order to continue the tradition of the board not governing > > development. And, I think the developer list is way too wide open. > > +1, I believe the board would vastly prefer not to set the precedent of > making technical decisions about Plone. The Foundation "protects and > promotes"; the community develops. :-) But this is not a technical decision at all. This is a decision about our ability and willpower to dedicate resources (skilled manpower) to accopmlish something. Wichert. -- Wichert Akkerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>It is simple to make things. http://www.wiggy.net/ It is hard to make things simple. ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
RE: [Framework-Team] Supported Plone Releases
> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:framework-team- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve McMahon > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 8:31 AM > To: Framework Team > Subject: Re: [Framework-Team] Supported Plone Releases > > > Why bring this up on the framework team list? The framework team is not > > a governing body. > > Then, who is? I certainly think that if the framework team makes a > decision on this, it would be widely respected and supported. > > I think that the PF Board would prefer not to make the decision, in > order to continue the tradition of the board not governing > development. And, I think the developer list is way too wide open. +1, I believe the board would vastly prefer not to set the precedent of making technical decisions about Plone. The Foundation "protects and promotes"; the community develops. :-) The Framework Team is the closest thing we have to a "technical" governing body, so I do think it makes sense to seek consensus on a big-picture technical question and then bring that forward to the wider developers list. If it is helpful, I believe there is probably an informal consensus on the board that we would very much like to see security fixes and releases happen on Plone 2.5.x at least until Plone 4.0 is out. This would seem to be in keeping with our historical "last two major releases" notion. Wichert's questions about whether folks are willing to commit to writing fixes for security issues in Plone 2.5.x (should they be discovered) is IMHO the key one that would allow us to say that 2.5 continues to be "supported." :jon ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
Re: [Framework-Team] Supported Plone Releases
On 12/10/08 7:01 PM, Alec Mitchell wrote: I just want to note that I'm willing to make releases of Plone 2.5 to fix truly critical bugs and security issues, provided those fixes aren't too invasive (e.g. the most recent round of CSRF fixes are not really feasible for incorporation into 2.5). If that is "supported", then consider it supported. It may really be the foundation/board's call though. We also need people willing to write those fixes on a timely basis. Wichert. ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
Re: [Framework-Team] Supported Plone Releases
I just want to note that I'm willing to make releases of Plone 2.5 to fix truly critical bugs and security issues, provided those fixes aren't too invasive (e.g. the most recent round of CSRF fixes are not really feasible for incorporation into 2.5). If that is "supported", then consider it supported. It may really be the foundation/board's call though. Alec On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 8:28 AM, Wichert Akkerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 12/10/08 5:24 PM, Calvin Hendryx-Parker wrote: >> >> >> On Dec 10, 2008, at 11:22 AM, Wichert Akkerman wrote: >> >>> Previously Calvin Hendryx-Parker wrote: I just noticed that on the PSC the Plone 2.5.5 release is listed as not supported. I'd suggest that unless we have sent an email to the announce list that the latest 2.5.x relases still be "supported". I also noticed that some of the older 3.1 releases are still listed as supported. Is there a reason that those aren't listed as unsupported since there is a 3.1 that would supersede them? >>> >>> Why bring this up on the framework team list? The framework team is not >>> a governing body. >> >> >> I was pointed this direction by Steve, where should this go? > > Likely candidates would be: the foundation board, the 2.5 release manager > and the developers list. > > Wichert. > > > > ___ > Framework-Team mailing list > Framework-Team@lists.plone.org > http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team > ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
Re: [Framework-Team] Supported Plone Releases
> Why bring this up on the framework team list? The framework team is not > a governing body. Then, who is? I certainly think that if the framework team makes a decision on this, it would be widely respected and supported. I think that the PF Board would prefer not to make the decision, in order to continue the tradition of the board not governing development. And, I think the developer list is way too wide open. Steve On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 8:22 AM, Wichert Akkerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Previously Calvin Hendryx-Parker wrote: >> I just noticed that on the PSC the Plone 2.5.5 release is listed as >> not supported. I'd suggest that unless we have sent an email to the >> announce list that the latest 2.5.x relases still be "supported". I >> also noticed that some of the older 3.1 releases are still listed as >> supported. Is there a reason that those aren't listed as unsupported >> since there is a 3.1 that would supersede them? > > Why bring this up on the framework team list? The framework team is not > a governing body. > > Wichert. > > -- > Wichert Akkerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>It is simple to make things. > http://www.wiggy.net/ It is hard to make things simple. > > ___ > Framework-Team mailing list > Framework-Team@lists.plone.org > http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team > -- Steve McMahon Reid-McMahon, LLC [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
Re: [Framework-Team] Supported Plone Releases
On 12/10/08 5:24 PM, Calvin Hendryx-Parker wrote: On Dec 10, 2008, at 11:22 AM, Wichert Akkerman wrote: Previously Calvin Hendryx-Parker wrote: I just noticed that on the PSC the Plone 2.5.5 release is listed as not supported. I'd suggest that unless we have sent an email to the announce list that the latest 2.5.x relases still be "supported". I also noticed that some of the older 3.1 releases are still listed as supported. Is there a reason that those aren't listed as unsupported since there is a 3.1 that would supersede them? Why bring this up on the framework team list? The framework team is not a governing body. I was pointed this direction by Steve, where should this go? Likely candidates would be: the foundation board, the 2.5 release manager and the developers list. Wichert. ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
Re: [Framework-Team] Supported Plone Releases
On Dec 10, 2008, at 11:22 AM, Wichert Akkerman wrote: Previously Calvin Hendryx-Parker wrote: I just noticed that on the PSC the Plone 2.5.5 release is listed as not supported. I'd suggest that unless we have sent an email to the announce list that the latest 2.5.x relases still be "supported". I also noticed that some of the older 3.1 releases are still listed as supported. Is there a reason that those aren't listed as unsupported since there is a 3.1 that would supersede them? Why bring this up on the framework team list? The framework team is not a governing body. I was pointed this direction by Steve, where should this go? Cal -- S i x F e e t U p , I n c . | "Nowhere to go but open source" Silicon Valley: +1 (650) 401-8579 x602 Midwest: +1 (317) 861-5948 x602 Toll-Free: 1-866-SIX-FEET mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.sixfeetup.com | Zope/Plone Custom Development ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
Re: [Framework-Team] Supported Plone Releases
Previously Calvin Hendryx-Parker wrote: > I just noticed that on the PSC the Plone 2.5.5 release is listed as > not supported. I'd suggest that unless we have sent an email to the > announce list that the latest 2.5.x relases still be "supported". I > also noticed that some of the older 3.1 releases are still listed as > supported. Is there a reason that those aren't listed as unsupported > since there is a 3.1 that would supersede them? Why bring this up on the framework team list? The framework team is not a governing body. Wichert. -- Wichert Akkerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>It is simple to make things. http://www.wiggy.net/ It is hard to make things simple. ___ Framework-Team mailing list Framework-Team@lists.plone.org http://lists.plone.org/mailman/listinfo/framework-team
