Re: [Frameworks] Looking for films about the radio and on air diffusion

[Tom Whiteside]

Felix the Cat stars in the 1923 short “Felix Gets Broadcasted,” he gets sent 
(physically, by radio!) to Egypt. It’s just a cartoon, but I have always 
thought it interesting the way he gets sent by “wireless.”

Tom Whiteside
Durham Cinematheque
From: FrameWorks [mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of 
Julia Gouin
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2014 1:00 PM
To: frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com
Subject: [Frameworks] Looking for films about the radio and on air diffusion

Dear all,
I am looking for films and videos that deal either thematically or technically 
with the idea of radio and radio diffusion.
Any titles that come to your mind?
Many thanks in advance for your thoughts

Julia Gouin
Administratrice
ATTENTION / / NOUVELLE ADRESSE / /
[Image removed by sender.]

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Re: [Frameworks] New filmmaker

[Tom Whiteside]

To this I will add - it's a dilemma, because a lot of experienced filmmakers 
will tell you that they really didn't know how to shoot until they had done 
some editing, and they didn't know how to edit until they had done some 
shooting. So it can take a while to get going. But you can learn something from 
every experience, so just get in it and go.

It may not be right for everyone, but one valid approach is this one - don't 
make your own film at first. Instead, help someone else with their film, work 
on projects that don't necessarily have that much at stake for you, personally. 
Learn some basic competencies, then you can apply it to your own creative work. 
Good luck.

Tom Whiteside
Durham Cinematheque

-Original Message-
From: FrameWorks [mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of 
Fred Camper
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 10:02 PM
To: Experimental Film Discussion List
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] New filmmaker

Learning to edit before starting to shoot on your own may not be for everyone, 
but I think it's an excellent suggestion. You may even want to pursue this for 
a while before shooting, but if you then want to shoot on your own, your 
shooting will be informed by what you have learned to do with editing, and will 
likely be more disciplined as a result.

It's all too easy to shoot a bunch of footage that you then have no idea what 
to do with. This is a frequent beginner's problem.

If you do get a camera right away, one good discipline is trying to make very 
short films that are edited in camera, or as close to edited in camera as you 
can make them.

Fred Camper
Chicago

On 5/5/2014 7:14 PM, LJ Frezza wrote:
> If you have a computer, I'm from the school that says you don't even 
> need a camera. You can try re-editing footage from a number of sources 
> like YouTube, DVDs, etc.
> It's a lot cheaper, especially if you can finagle yourself some free 
> editing software.
> -LJ
>

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Re: [Frameworks] animals and human-animal relationships on film

[Tom Whiteside]

Oh yes, the fairly recent documentary (five years or so?) "Beetle Queen 
Conquers Tokyo."

From: FrameWorks [mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of 
Albert Alcoz
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2014 8:52 AM
To: sarah browne; Experimental Film Discussion List; Experimental Film 
Discussion List
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] animals and human-animal relationships on film

Jean Painlevé Films
Little Dog For Roger and Berlin Horse by Malcolm LeGrice,

and what about things like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sP4NMoJcFd4
El Jueves 24 de abril de 2014 11:04, sarah browne 
mailto:sarahjbro...@yahoo.ie>> escribió:
Thanks Shelly!



From: Shelly Silver mailto:silver...@earthlink.net>>
To: Experimental Film Discussion List 
mailto:frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com>>
Sent: Thursday, 24 April 2014, 4:04:44
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] animals and human-animal relationships on film

Kathy high. Animal attraction

Sent from my phone

On Apr 23, 2014, at 9:18 PM, Ruth Hayes 
mailto:randomr...@comcast.net>> wrote:
Here's a sampling of animation featuring animals in some way:  Wendy Tilby and 
Amanda Forbis' When the Day Breaks, Caroline Leaf's The Owl Who Married a 
Goose, my own Wanda, Iain Gardner's films, Aardman's Creature Comforts, Yuri 
Norstein's films, Alison deVere's Black Dog, Dennis Tupicoff's Darra Dogs, Igor 
Kovalyov's Hen His Wife, Sara Petty's Furies, Joanna Quinn's Britannia, Paul 
Fierlinger's Still Life with Animated DOgs, Alexander Petrov's The Cow, Run 
Wrake's Rabbit, three versions of Little Red Riding Hood: Piotr Dumala's Little 
Black Riding Hood, Tex Avery's Red Hot Riding Hood and Fleischer's Dizzy Red 
Riding Hood.

Ruth Hayes
http://www.randommotion.com
blogs.evergreen.edu/hayesr

On Apr 23, 2014, at 8:05 AM, sarah browne wrote:


Dear Frameworkers,

I'm looking for some help in compiling a list of films that feature animals or 
human-animal relationships on film. Rather than wildlife documentaries (with 
some exceptions!) I'm more interested in the animal presence as an a kind of 
distancing tactic that allows for reflection on inter-human behaviours (ethics, 
empathy, violence). Arthouse or experimental material more than Babe.

Any tips very gratefully received!

Best wishes,

Sarah Browne

www.sarahbrowne.info
www.kennedybrowne.com

Hand to Mouth
CCA Derry-Londonderry
until 24 May 2014

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Re: [Frameworks] animals and human-animal relationships on film

[Tom Whiteside]

An early documentary by Peter Friedman, "I Talk to Animals." It is wonderful, 
available from Strange Attractions.

Tom Whiteside Durham Cinematheque

From: FrameWorks [mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of 
sarah browne
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2014 11:05 AM
To: frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com
Subject: [Frameworks] animals and human-animal relationships on film

Dear Frameworkers,

I'm looking for some help in compiling a list of films that feature animals or 
human-animal relationships on film. Rather than wildlife documentaries (with 
some exceptions!) I'm more interested in the animal presence as an a kind of 
distancing tactic that allows for reflection on inter-human behaviours (ethics, 
empathy, violence). Arthouse or experimental material more than Babe.

Any tips very gratefully received!

Best wishes,

Sarah Browne

www.sarahbrowne.info<http://www.sarahbrowne.info>
www.kennedybrowne.com<http://www.kennedybrowne.com>

Hand to Mouth
CCA Derry-Londonderry
until 24 May 2014

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Re: [Frameworks] Films and videos about music fan culture

[Tom Whiteside]

And his follow up "Neil Diamond Parking Lot" (same venue, I think it was 20 
years later)

From: FrameWorks [mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of 
Bryan Wendorf
Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2014 4:01 PM
To: Experimental Film Discussion List
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Films and videos about music fan culture

Obviously Jeff Krulik's Heavy Metal Parking Lot is essential to this topic.

Bryan Wendorf
Programmer and Artistic Director
Chicago Underground Film Festival
http://www.cuff.org

On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 2:56 PM, Beebe, Roger W. 
mailto:beebe...@osu.edu>> wrote:
There are some pretty great super 8 fan sequences in Instrument (by Jem Cohen). 
 Overall that's a pretty wonderful film in the way that it avoids having the 
band play all the jams & just focuses instead on all the stuff around that.

And it's Trypps #3 with Lightning Bolt (then replaced by Joe Grimm for the real 
trip sequence).

...
R.

On Feb 8, 2014, at 3:50 PM, Adam Hyman 
mailto:a...@lafilmforum.org>> wrote:


One of Ben Russell's Black & White Trypps (I forget which number) shows fans at 
a concert from a stage POV, and might be one thing like what you want. I feel 
like there is a Jem Cohen film that also does something similar.


On 2/8/14 12:33 PM, "Adam R. Levine" 
mailto:ada...@gmail.com>> wrote:


Hi Frameworks,

I am looking for suggestions for work by or about music fans, films that 
explore an individual's personal connection to a band or recording artist, 
perhaps even films that take a critical look at ideas of music performance or 
rock stardom. If you've made such a work yourself, feel free to mention it or 
send me a link. Some things I've considered, to give you a sense:

Jeremy Deller - Our Hobby Is Depeche Mode/The Posters Came From The Walls
William E. Jones - Is It Really So Strange?
Dan Graham - Rock My Religion
Mark Leckey - Fiorucci Made Me Hardcore
Alan Zweig - Vinyl
Matt Wolf - Teenage

Thanks so much for your help,
Adam

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Re: [Frameworks] new architecture/buildings/rooms wired with cameras and mics

[Tom Whiteside]

Something one should always do these days is put in twice as many conduits as 
you need - when you run conduit to camera positions, run one for current needs 
and an extra one for future use. It is so much easier to do this during 
construction. Later when you switch from copper to fiber optic (or whatever it 
might be) you are ahead of the game.

And keep in mind that you need power at each camera position.

Tom Whiteside
Durham Cinematheque

From: FrameWorks [mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of 
Shelly Silver
Sent: Friday, December 06, 2013 5:54 PM
To: Experimental Film Discussion List
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] new architecture/buildings/rooms wired with cameras 
and mics

thanks ryder:
what i'm most interested in hearing about is video cameras/recording devices.  
not so much playback or projection.

best,
shelly

On Dec 6, 2013, at 4:49 PM, Ryder White 
mailto:ryder.wh...@gmail.com>> wrote:


Hi Shelly,
A few years ago, when I was still in university, our contemporary arts 
department moved to a new purpose-built facility complete with a lot of the 
kind of integrated infrastructure I think you're talking about. Instead of 
having a lot of independent systems, every lecture hall and seminar room had 
all the media playback and recording devices (as well as the lights, screens, 
blinds, etc) controlled by the same console that was linked back to a central 
server. It made for a much nicer space in that there weren't wires and cables 
and carts everywhere, but it was still fraught with difficulty. One of the main 
problems was that the configuration of each space was only MOSTLY the 
same...they all differed somewhat. Besides that, the control interface itself 
was not particularly intuitive.
To my mind, it is a nice thing to do but only if it can be done in a very 
particular way. For one thing, ensure consistency throughout your systems, 
because learning one new way of using a space is hard enough. Secondly, demo 
your interface options extensively and always ask yourself "Is this something 
that the least technologically literate person in our organization could use?" 
It's pretty awful when class/session/presentation time gets cut down because 
you can't figure out how to differentiate the projector controls from the 
lighting ones.
Hope that helps. I only have experience with the one setup, though, so I'd like 
to hear if anyone knows of more positive implementations.
Best,

RW

On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 1:10 PM, Shelly Silver 
mailto:silver...@earthlink.net>> wrote:
dear all:
does anyone have experience, good or bad, with rooms pre-built with wiring, 
cameras, mics.  not for surveillance but for filming lectures, etc.
im involved in the pre-planning of a building and i want to collect experiences.

thanks!
shelly
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Re: [Frameworks] the Frampton film...

[Tom Whiteside]

Thanks for the info, Steve. Interesting that it was made rather than found. To 
be truly found, must it have previously been lost? (and this is a digression, 
as I fully understand the request made in the original post.)  My memory of 
"Ordinary Matter" is that the soundtrack "plays" like a found soundtrack - they 
obviously don't belong together in a conventional sense and there is tension in 
the way the sound and image aggressively hold each other off, like two football 
players in a stiff arm standoff, each demanding its own pace and space. There's 
a lot of that in Frampton's films, come to think of it, one might even call it  
"Surface Tension."

I have swapped soundtracks for many years - more "displaced"  than found. 
Example is "Home Safe Badminton," two complete 16mm educationals shown one 
after the other, projector sound is off. First one is "Home Safe Home" (circa 
1950) the second is "Badminton Fundamentals" (circa 1960). Running times are 
the same, with the soundtracks recorded on tape you listen to all of BF as you 
watch HSH, then vice versa. You learn a lot (do not leave that electrical cord 
dangling,  do a full backswing for a smash) and it is entertaining, too.  
During the first half the soundtrack is definitely lost, it just does not 
belong, then it is completely found (in the wrong place, doh!!) during the 
second half. For some reason I have always thought that it is the soundtrack 
that has moved, but of course it could just as easily be said that the image 
has been moved, same difference.

I am tempted to say that appropriation isn't what it used to be.

Tom Whiteside

From: FrameWorks [mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of 
Steve Polta
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 12:17 PM
To: Experimental Film Discussion List
Subject: [Frameworks] the Frampton film...

...to which  Tom Whiteside refers is Ordinary Matter (Hapax Legomena V). The 
soundtrack indeed consists of a booming male voice reciting a Chinese language 
syllabary and is also double-system sound (i.e. sound on "tape;" film is 
projected at 16/18fps btw). I believe that this soundtrack was recorded by 
Frampton for this film and would likely not be considered "found sound."
Steve Polta

On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 5:38 AM, Tom Whiteside 
mailto:tom.whites...@duke.edu>> wrote:
Which Frampton film uses some kind of a Chinese lectionary for soundtrack? 
Probably from the seventies. I believe it was double system, sound was on 
reel-to-reel tape. That was a found soundtrack.

Tom
  Durham Cinematheque

From: FrameWorks 
[mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com<mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com>]
 On Behalf Of Albert Alcoz
Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2013 3:56 PM
To: frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com<mailto:frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com>
Subject: [Frameworks] Found Soundtrack Films


Hi,

Institutional Quality by George Landow was created from a found soundtrack, in 
this case a tape recorder about an instructional test.

Does anyone know other examples that uses found soundtracks for experimental 
films, especially from the sixties and seventies?

Thanks,

Albert
http://www.visionaryfilm.net/

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Re: [Frameworks] Found Soundtrack Films

[Tom Whiteside]

Which Frampton film uses some kind of a Chinese lectionary for soundtrack? 
Probably from the seventies. I believe it was double system, sound was on 
reel-to-reel tape. That was a found soundtrack.

Tom
  Durham Cinematheque

From: FrameWorks [mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of 
Albert Alcoz
Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2013 3:56 PM
To: frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com
Subject: [Frameworks] Found Soundtrack Films


Hi,

Institutional Quality by George Landow was created from a found soundtrack, in 
this case a tape recorder about an instructional test.

Does anyone know other examples that uses found soundtracks for experimental 
films, especially from the sixties and seventies?

Thanks,

Albert
http://www.visionaryfilm.net/
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Re: [Frameworks] regular 8mm film processing question

[Tom Whiteside]

You can also get regular 8mm (with prepaidprocessing) from Dwayne's in Parsons, 
Kansas.

For an "obsolete" format there are plenty of choices.

- Tom  Durham Cinematheque

-Original Message-
From: FrameWorks [mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of 
direc...@lift.on.ca
Sent: Friday, November 08, 2013 2:40 PM
To: Experimental Film Discussion List
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] regular 8mm film processing question

Hi Charles,
LIFT in Toronto sells FOMAPAN Regular 8, which is a lovely stock that I believe 
is still being produced. We import it from Germany and can ship it to the 
states.
Info here:
http://lift.ca/equipment/store/fomapan-regular-8mm-film-33-asa-100d80t

good luck
Chris


> Cool, thanks for your help.
>
> -c
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 10:27 AM, Buck Bito - Movette
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Charles,
>> I haven't ordered since my R8 100D order a week before the Kodak 
>> discontinuation announcement last year, but I have been happily 
>> ordering from International Film (John Schwind) for years without a problem.
>> Just give him a call or drop an email to confirm he's got what you want:
>> International Film (John Schwind)
>> http://internationalfilm.weebly.com/
>>
>> -Have fun with that R8!
>> ---Buck
>>
>>
>> On Fri, November 8, 2013 9:43 am, Charles Chadwick wrote:
>> > Thanks. BTW, is the 8mm stock still being produced? I just emailed
>> Joss
>> > Schwind, but his website looks pretty old...and I don't want to 
>> > send
>> money
>> > to a random address and get nothing back. Yale says the b+w 8mm
>> stock's
>> > been discontinued...
>> >
>> > -charles
>> >
>> >
>> > On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 9:29 AM, Buck Bito - Movette
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hi Charles,
>> >> Yale does great work (although I hate their recent, printed 
>> >> leaders)
>> and
>> >> I
>> >> don't think you'll find anything lower than their $15/roll 
>> >> advertised pricing.
>> >> Spectra also processes R8, but they advertise $18/roll.
>> >> -If you find something as good and cheaper, please post!
>> >> ---Buck Bito
>> >>
>> >> Lawrence "Buck" Bito
>> >> Movette Film Transfer
>> >> 1407 Valencia St.
>> >> San Francisco, CA 94110
>> >> (Valencia at 25th St.)
>> >> 415-558-8815
>> >> Open Tuesday - Saturday
>> >> Tue+Thu: 8-6, Wed+Fri: 9-6, Sat: 10-4
>> >> *** CLOSED 11/28/13 through 12/2/13 *** www.movettefilm.com
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, November 8, 2013 9:13 am, Charles Chadwick wrote:
>> >> > Hey, I recently inherited what looks like a fairly decent reg 
>> >> > 8mm
>> >> camera
>> >> > from a family friend, and was looking to do a new small gauge
>> project
>> >> > anyway, and have never worked with reg 8mm, only s8. I've 
>> >> > tracked
>> down
>> >> a
>> >> > good price on stock, namely 8mm black and white, but does anyone
>> know
>> >> what
>> >> > the best option cost wise for b+w reg 8mm processing would be?
>> >> Anything
>> >> > besides Yale. Thanks! Finding myself to be pretty poor these 
>> >> > days,
>> >> trying
>> >> > to carve out a conservative budget with what little funds that I
>> have.
>> >> >
>> >> > -charles
>> >> > ___
>> >> > FrameWorks mailing list
>> >> > FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
>> >> > https://mailman-mail5.webfaction.com/listinfo/frameworks
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> ___
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>> >>
>> >
>>
>>
>> ___
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Re: [Frameworks] the fate of Em Gee...

[Tom Whiteside]

In the past three or four years I have purchased some 16mm prints from Murray 
Glass on eBay - a nice reel with five titles by Zecca, and an odd reel with a 
variety of somewhat strangely printed excerpts from Intolerance. The strange 
printing was due to lab mistakes. Can't remember exactly how he phrased it but 
he did say something vague about the print being faulty and incomplete. His 
starting prices weren't inexpensive, but I collect early cinema on 16mm and it 
usually isn't inexpensive.

Interesting to note that on the heads and tails of the Zecca reel you can read 
where MOMA's leaders were printed through. He rented a 16mm print from their 
circulating library, made his own print, and then (I assume) rented it out 
through Em Gee. Nothing wrong with that so far as I'm concerned, except I 
realize that MOMA's print would be one generation better.

Tom Whiteside
Durham Cinematheque

From: FrameWorks [mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of 
Steve Polta
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2013 3:30 AM
To: Experimental Film Discussion List
Subject: [Frameworks] the fate of Em Gee...

Hi. I certainly don't have any knowledge but I'm hereby seconding Roger Beebe's 
inquiry as to the resolution and disposition of the lauded and mysterious Em 
Gee Film Library. I assume that the guy just retired or finally decided to shut 
the business down but very curious to hear any anecdotes or learn the fate of 
the collection. Any leads...

Steve Polta
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Re: [Frameworks] regular 8mm film stock

[Tom Whiteside]

You can buy 8mm stock and have it processed at Dwayne’s Photo in Parsons, 
Kansas.

From: FrameWorks [mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of 
Phaeton Graph
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 6:32 PM
To: Experimental Film Discussion List
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] regular 8mm film stock

http://www.theoldfilmcompany.com/


From: Jarrett Hayman mailto:jfhay...@gmail.com>>
To: Experimental Film Discussion List 
mailto:FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com>>
Sent: Saturday, 3 August 2013, 17:20
Subject: [Frameworks] regular 8mm film stock

Hello,
Does anyone know where, besides International Film Brokers and Spectra Film and 
Video, one might find color regular 8mm film stock?
Thank you,

JH

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Re: [Frameworks] The Pace of Time / Roundhouse / 4 August

[Tom Whiteside]

One might add that this Roundhouse is in London - correct?

From: FrameWorks [mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of 
Ben Pritchard
Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2013 9:15 AM
To: frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com; Pip Chodorov
Subject: [Frameworks] The Pace of Time / Roundhouse / 4 August

Hello

I'd like to inform you of two film events happening at the Roundhouse this 
Sunday 4 August.

If you could include in your listings that would be much appreciated.

Thanks
Ben

THE PACE OF TIME : A CONTEMPORARY 
INTERRUPTION
4.30PM, SUNDAY 4 AUGUST
FREE ENTRY
BUY 
TICKETS

A free screening featuring new work by contemporary artists. Artists are 
invited to explore and respond to ideas of time, memory and duration.

PROGRAMME:
Joseph Curran - The Blue Pool (2012)
Luke Aspell - Towards 'To Pass and Repass' (2013)
Deniz Johns - La Scala della Memoria (2013)
Amy Dickson - W11 (2013)
Jamie Jenkinson - Two Kitchen Pans (2013)
Jamie Jenkinson - Fan On Floral (2013)
Karolina Raczynski with Deniz Johns - Signals II (2013)


THE PACE OF TIME : IN TO 
FRAGMENTS
6.30PM, SUNDAY 5 AUGUST
£5
BUY 
TICKETS

This film screening involves different uses of time manipulation and 
fragmentation. The programme shifts from slower films which meditate on 
immediate surroundings (John Smith's Leading Light) to the fragmented and 
jilted (Chris Welsby's Fforest bay II), to the creative splicing of fragments 
and instances (The Cut-Ups by William S. Burroughs and Antony Balch). A 
presentation of transference from slow single focus, to the coexistence of 
multiple planes of consciousness.

The presence of the past informs our contemporary state. Memory focuses our 
attention in the present moment; it is fragmented, indistinct and filtered in 
flux.

PROGRAMME:

Rob Gawthrop - Distancing (1979)
John Smith - Leading Light (1975)
David Hall - Phased Time (1974)
Chris Welsby - Fforest bay II (1973)
Rose Lowder - Bouquet 5 & 10 (1995)
Bruce Baillie - Castro Street (1966)
William S. Burroughs and Antony Balch - The Cut-Ups (1966)

Rob Gawthrop introduces the programme with a discussion on the relevance and 
possibilities of film in relation to time.

All films shown on 16mm.

Projection by Maria Anastassiou

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[Frameworks] film scholarship inquiry

[Tom Whiteside]

Frameworkers -
For those of you interested in film scholarship:  I have a book 
checked out from the library. Title is "The Film Studies Dictionary," by 
Blandford, Grant, and Hillier, published 2001 in London by Arnold and same year 
in New York by Oxford University Press. I picked it up on a whim, it was nearby 
when I found what I was looking for. This is a dictionary, arranged 
alphabetically, but of course the numerical entries come first. I found so many 
mistakes I never even made it past "A."

The entry for "35mm film" states that it was introduced in 
1899, which is incorrect. 35mm film was introduced in 1889 by most accounts; 
putting it one decade late overlooks both Edison's Kinetoscope and Lumiere's 
premiere program, arguably the two most important events in the early 
development of motion pictures, and both of which, quite famously, used 35mm 
film. At first I thought "it's just a typo;" nonetheless it is a very bad 
start. On the next page in the entry "8mm," it states that 8mm film has 
sprocket holes on both sides. This is not only incorrect, it is quite stupid - 
if 8mm film was double perf there would be no room at all for the image. (Yes, 
I know that "double 8" film starts out 16mm wide with perfs on both sides, but 
8mm film does not have sprocket holes on both sides.) It also states that 8mm 
was "largely replaced by Super 8mm after 1966."  Why wait a year for that? 
Super 8 was introduced in 1965.

Under the entry "abstract film" it states that Man Ray's 
"Return to Reason" features "barely recognizable images of nails and pins 
placed directly on the exposed filmstrip."  I have had a 16mm print of "Return 
to Reason" for 25 years and can attest that the images of nails and pins are 
razor sharp and they are completely recognizable. Furthermore, stills of these 
strips have been reprinted in any number of books for decades, and as anyone 
can see they are not "barely recognizable" but are (excuse me) as sharp as a 
tack. And of course they were placed directly on the unexposed film strip in 
Man Ray's darkroom. Jiminy Cricket!

Three film scholars collaborated on this, and presumably there 
was some editorial oversight by the publisher(s). The entries are short, 
concise, and way too frequently WRONG. The first three pages contain five 
mistakes that I could find. This is a reference book for crying out loud. I 
didn't, and can't, read any further, but if you have this book in your library 
please give it a go. Might be fun to see how bad the rest of it is. I have 
notified my library of this situation, not sure what they will, or can, do 
about it. If you know anyone in the publishing houses of Arnold or Oxford 
University Press you might want to make them aware of this.


- Tom WhitesideDurham Cinematheque


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Re: [Frameworks] Proustian Cinema

[Tom Whiteside]

The work of Jonas Mekas.



From: FrameWorks [mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of 
Francisco Torres
Sent: Friday, June 07, 2013 2:15 PM
To: Experimental Film Discussion List
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Proustian Cinema

The films of Nicolas Roeg may be considered 'Proustian'.

On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 11:17 AM, Benjamin R. Taylor 
mailto:cont...@benjaminrtaylor.com>> wrote:
Hi, there,

I'm looking to compile a list of good points of reference for 'Proustian' 
cinema (in terms of form and style relating to memory - not adaptations of 
Proust).
Both film makers/works and essays/writings.

Cheers,

Benjamin.

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Re: [Frameworks] painted film finisher

[Tom Whiteside]

I don't think you can safely add a layer of finish - ink and markers probably 
won't change much, but craft paint is going to come off (to some degree) so if 
you want to project this (much) you need to make a print.

As I'm sure you are aware, the motion of the film through the projector is 
intermittent, it is vigorous, anything up on top of the surface of the plastic 
is going to come off.

Good luck!

From: FrameWorks [mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of 
Jarrett Hayman
Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2013 9:02 PM
To: FrameWorks@jonasmekasfilms.com
Subject: [Frameworks] painted film finisher

Hello,
I have recently completed two films made using direct application techniques, 
such as hand painting with craft paint, india ink, permanent markers and other 
media. I would like to find a way to apply some kind of finish to the film so 
that the ink and paint do not continue to rub off with projection, but I'm 
afraid to use a spray finish for traditional paintings, as they are usually 
quite flammable. Any ideas?
-JH
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Re: [Frameworks] RIP Taylor Mead

[Tom Whiteside]

A bright young artist by the name of Ripley Whiteside is doing small portraits 
of recently deceased celebrities and I do believe that Taylor Mead is still for 
sale, edition of one. (There could only be one Taylor Mead!)  He also recently 
had a nice Ray Harryhausen. You can find these on Etsy, they are called 
RIPSRIPS.

- Tom Whiteside

From: FrameWorks [mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of 
Gene Youngblood
Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 9:43 AM
To: Frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com
Subject: [Frameworks] RIP Taylor Mead

The flower thief left us yesterday in Colorado, age 88.
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Re: [Frameworks] Dizziness and Disorientation

[Tom Whiteside]

I agree with Jonathan, Back and Forth is anything but static, it's a ping pong 
game that gets seriously out of hand. There are "dizzying" qualities to Central 
Region, too. Isn't it the dynamic contrast between the heights of "busyness" 
(rhymes with "dizziness") and the relative repose of the calmer sections that 
leads to dizziness? The viewer is comfortable looking at something, then the 
accelerated and/or increasingly eccentric movement takes away that level of 
comfort. You see depth in the image, then the depth is erased; with that change 
comes disorientation.

Peter Rose climbs the Golden Gate Bridge in The Man Who Could Not See Far 
Enough, that might get some people dizzy. The various Nervous System works by 
Ken Jacobs can get rather dizzying, in my experience.

In years past, when necessary, I voiced a warning before a few screenings that 
flicker films can be dangerous to some epileptics. More recently I have 
introduced a few screenings by saying, "Although nothing tonight should be 
dangerous to epileptics, uptight people might find that they get a little 
dizzy."

- Tom Durham Cinematheque



-Original Message-
From: FrameWorks [mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of 
Jonathan Walley
Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2013 8:46 AM
To: Experimental Film Discussion List
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Dizziness and Disorientation

I don't think it's a reach at all to say that BaF can induce dizziness or 
disorientation; calling the film "static," and implicitly likening its camera 
movement to that of WAVELENGTH, is quite misleading. The frenetic quality of 
BaF's camera movement is totally different from the staid zooming of 
WAVELENGTH, and thus creates perceptual effects that are distinct from the 
earlier film.

And whether "the camera position only moves once" is beside the point
- that may be the case (though I'm not convinced that the actual position of 
the camera changes only once in BaF), but certainly the extent to which a film 
might cause perceptual disorientation or physical effects like dizziness isn't 
solely a matter of camera position. There is no "camera position" at all in THE 
FLICKER, but that film surely causes those sorts of effects.

BaF was indeed discussed in terms of its disorienting effects on perception at 
the time of its release - see Manny Farber's ARTFORUM review from 1970, or 
Peter Gidal's discussion of the film in STRUCTURAL FILM ANTHOLOGY. At the very 
least, there is general agreement that, at its most accelerated, the panning 
interferes with the viewer's ability to perceive depth in the image, and to 
discern the individual bodies and objects in the frame. This might not be 
"dizziness," but it seems perfectly accurate to call it "disorientation."

Jonathan

On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 10:05 PM, Peter Mudie  wrote:
> Geez, Mike Snow's Back and Forth has nothing to do with 'dizziness' or
> 'disorientation'. There is a room, four windows, a door and some
> people doing things – the camera position only moves once (just after
> the beginning). In terms of phenomena it is remarkably 'static'. Ask
> yourself, is Wavelength 'about' 'horizontal vertigo'? Yikes.
>
> If you're in Wien then check out Kurt's material with Günter Brus and
> Otto's films.
>
> Peter
> 
>
>
> Michael Snow's Back and Forth would be the best example I can think of
> off the top of my head.
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 7:01 AM, Anderwald + Grond
>  wrote:
>>
>> Dear frameworkers,
>> We are currently conceiving a research project, including film
>> screenings, on the phenomenon of Dizziness/Disorientation seen as a
>> resource for thought and artistic practice.
>> Could you please recommend theory writings or artists' films and videos?
>> Thank you!
>> Ruth + Leo
>>
>> -
>> Ruth Anderwald + Leonhard Grond
>>
>> ++43 699 10984551
>> Schüttelstr. 21/14
>> 1020 Vienna
>> cont...@anderwald-grond.at
>> http://www.anderwald-grond.at
>> follow on twitter @anderwaldgrond
>> http://www.hasenherz.at
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> Patrick Brennan
> patrick.brennan...@gmail.com
>
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>



--
Jonathan Walley
Associate Professor
Department of Cinema
Denison University
wall...@denison.edu
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Re: [Frameworks] Anyone else like me out there?

[Tom Whiteside]

Doug Graves started this thread, but I think a lot of people either feel the 
same way, or felt that way at one time. When I got started in experimental film 
in the late 70’s/early 80’s one of my heroes was Patti Smith, the one who said 
“I am an American artist and I have no guilt.”

Although there was no one to share it with, I used to say “I am an American 
artist and I have no guild.”

So perhaps a sense of humor will help, Doug. I will also say that over the 
years I have found a variety of ways to connect with other artists and to the 
general public (ie, potential audiences) and that has lessened the feelings of 
isolation. It really is DIY, no question about it. There is a lot of solitary 
work, but that would probably be true if you were a painter, composer, etc. So 
just keep going, be serious about your art, don’t expect to be a superstar, and 
take advantage of the opportunities that you can find. This forum itself is a 
valuable resource, for example.

Best of luck to you.

Tom WhitesideDurham CinemathequeDurham, NC



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Re: [Frameworks] Let's define things

[Tom Whiteside]

Agreed, this is dumbo to the max. I didn't read the whole thing, it was awful.

However, the entire episode has been worthwhile as it leads up to Peter's 
exquisite critique - nice language, good message, delivered with Confirmation 
Notification to RightHereSville! Thnx.

Tom   Durham Cinematheque

From: FrameWorks [mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of 
Peter Mudie
Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 9:12 AM
To: Experimental Film Discussion List
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Let's define things

It was just stupid, that's all. The author tries (but comes across as stupid), 
the editor who is responsible must be stupid, the publication is pretty stupid 
for printing it. A stupidathon, full circle - even without scrutinising bears, 
that's credibility in a non-return airmail package to Nowheresville.
P

It's a truly awful article - I don't think there's a single line that bears 
scrutiny. But what bothers be even more than the article itself is that The 
Independent chose someone to write an article on experimental film who has no 
discernible credentials, and then actually published the drivel that resulted. 
We can fault the (very young) author for not doing her homework, for offering a 
laundry list of platitudes about art, for parroting the party line on the 
glorious of the internet, and for a writing style more appropriate for a high 
school newspaper than a publication claiming to have been "obsessed with 
independent film since 1978." But there's some spark of enthusiasm for the 
subject matter, misguided and uninformed as it is. Her article shouldn't have 
ever seen the light of day, but for that we can only fault The Independent. 
Perhaps the line under the title is a veiled acknowledgement by the publishers 
of the article's shortcomings: "...her unique POV," and "an area of film that 
leans toward indecipherable" suggest that none of it should be taken too 
seriously.

Taking the article apart would be too easy, and perhaps a little mean-spirited. 
But The Independent and the aivf should be called on the carpet for printing it.

JW

On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 9:20 PM, Michael Betancourt 
mailto:hinterland.mov...@gmail.com>> wrote:
This article left me with that "you're joking" sense: it doesn't even get 
Sheldon Renan's name right (quote: Sheldon Ren, author of An Introduction to 
the American Underground 
Film,
 writes that the term came into usage because "there was at the time a feeling 
that the forces that be were trying to keep this certain kind of film from 
being made.") Problem is, people who don't know any better will read it and 
think they've learned something.

But somehow I don't think objecting will actually do any good. (It's already in 
print.)
Michael Betancourt
Savannah, GA USA


michaelbetancourt.com
twitter.com/cinegraphic | 
vimeo.com/cinegraphic
www.cinegraphic.net | the avant-garde film & video 
blog

On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 7:47 PM, Beebe, Roger 
mailto:roge...@ufl.edu>> wrote:
I tried to post a comment to this article expressing my dissatisfaction about 
her very idiosyncratic lexicon, but it seems not to have taken.  The author 
goes on to say that Citizen Kane was avant garde, completely ignoring the 
historical usage of this term.  I don't understand why The Independent got 
someone to write this article who seems to have very little exposure to 
experimental film.  (She also seems to have mostly art-world references for 
exp. film, which is another problem after the more basic ones.)

Mass protest?
R.



On Mar 4, 2013, at 6:53 PM, Chuck Kleinhans wrote:

http://independent-magazine.org/magazine/2013/03/Minhae-Shim_defines_experimental-film_avant-garde_video-installation

For me, experimental film is essentially a broad strokes or umbrella term for 
moving images that explore the human condition, nature, or fantasy in ways that 
haven't been traditionally explored before. "Experimental film" includes a wide 
range of works, from a video performance of a heavily made-up woman smearing 
her face on a pane of glass (Pipilotti Rist,Be Nice to 
Me) to Wes Anderson's Moonrise 
Kingdom.




Chuck Kleinhans

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Re: [Frameworks] "The Toxic Camera" query

[Tom Whiteside]

One further note - when film is accidentally x-rayed, isn't the result a 
general "fog"  rather than any kind of variable pattern or marking? I remember 
one case many years ago, it looked as if the film had been double exposed with 
the second exposure being a rather featureless light gray. Could it be 
otherwise? Seems reasonable that the exposure might be greater toward the edges 
than in the center of the frame, for example, but I don't remember that being 
the case.

Tom

From: FrameWorks [mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of 
Heath Iverson
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 8:45 AM
To: frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com
Subject: [Frameworks] "The Toxic Camera" query

Dear Frameworkers,

I'm a doctoral candidate working on contemporary British artists' cinema. At 
the moment I'm doing some research on Jane and Louise Wilson's "The Toxic 
Camera," an installation which, in part, commemorates the nuclear accident at 
Chernobyl. The installation is framed as a response to Vladimir Shevchenko's 
film, "Chernobyl: A Chronicle of Difficult Weeks". Filmed in the immediate 
aftermath of the accident, Shevchenko's film was damaged by the ambient 
radiation--leaving the film's emulsion visibly pockmarked by the collision with 
decaying atomic particles. At various points, the Wilson's digital video seems 
to simulate the material damage in the Shevchenko film--sometimes literally 
mimicking a pocked marked emulsion, other times apparently "translating" this 
analogue damage into other digital distortions in the image.

My question: does anyone know how these digital effects were technically 
achieved? Obviously, there are all kinds of digital filters that emulate a 
"film look," but I would like to know exactly what the Wilson's process was in 
production of their video's effects. Perhaps someone has their contact 
information?

A secondary question: Can anyone point me to any other films in which the 
emulsion registers non-light electromagnetic energy, that is, radiation outside 
the visible spectrum. I can think of certain films that intentionally make use 
x-ray photography, but I'd be interested in other examples, especially in 
accidental instances.

Best wishes,
Heath
--
Heath Iverson
PhD Candidate in Film Studies
University of St Andrews
99 North Street
St. Andrews, KY16 9AD
Scotland, UK

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Re: [Frameworks] "The Toxic Camera" query

[Tom Whiteside]

Heath -
Interesting inquiry. I will mention simple static electricity, 
which of course is NOT "non-light electromagnetic energy" but has been an issue 
with film for a long time - if you load your own film (ie, load raw stock into 
magazines or daylight reels in a dark room or black bag) there has always been 
the possibility of accidentally creating static electricity. This sparking 
creates tiny lightning-like flashes on the film. Whatever else you shoot later 
is there, too, but superimposed on it are those delicate little traces of 
"lightning bolts." When you don't want them they are a drag, but sometimes they 
are quite lovely.
Also, if you haven't already seen it I highly recommend 
"Radiophobia," a documentary about Chernobyl and Pripyat. I believe it was made 
on the occasion of the 20th anniversary, so probably came out in 2006 or 
thereabout.

- Tom Whiteside

Durham Cinematheque
Durham, NC   USA

From: FrameWorks [mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of 
Heath Iverson
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 8:45 AM
To: frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com
Subject: [Frameworks] "The Toxic Camera" query

Dear Frameworkers,

I'm a doctoral candidate working on contemporary British artists' cinema. At 
the moment I'm doing some research on Jane and Louise Wilson's "The Toxic 
Camera," an installation which, in part, commemorates the nuclear accident at 
Chernobyl. The installation is framed as a response to Vladimir Shevchenko's 
film, "Chernobyl: A Chronicle of Difficult Weeks". Filmed in the immediate 
aftermath of the accident, Shevchenko's film was damaged by the ambient 
radiation--leaving the film's emulsion visibly pockmarked by the collision with 
decaying atomic particles. At various points, the Wilson's digital video seems 
to simulate the material damage in the Shevchenko film--sometimes literally 
mimicking a pocked marked emulsion, other times apparently "translating" this 
analogue damage into other digital distortions in the image.

My question: does anyone know how these digital effects were technically 
achieved? Obviously, there are all kinds of digital filters that emulate a 
"film look," but I would like to know exactly what the Wilson's process was in 
production of their video's effects. Perhaps someone has their contact 
information?

A secondary question: Can anyone point me to any other films in which the 
emulsion registers non-light electromagnetic energy, that is, radiation outside 
the visible spectrum. I can think of certain films that intentionally make use 
x-ray photography, but I'd be interested in other examples, especially in 
accidental instances.

Best wishes,
Heath
--
Heath Iverson
PhD Candidate in Film Studies
University of St Andrews
99 North Street
St. Andrews, KY16 9AD
Scotland, UK

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Re: [Frameworks] drugged

[Tom Whiteside]

Check with Skip Elsheimer of AV Geeks.

- Tom

-Original Message-
From: FrameWorks [mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of 
Eric Theise
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2013 2:41 PM
To: Experimental Film Discussion List
Subject: [Frameworks] drugged

Hello Frameworkers,

I'm hoping to get suggestions for studying the tropes of the trip, that is to 
say, the way hallucinatory and other drug experiences have been portrayed 
on-screen.  Flashy, over-the-top visual signifiers are what I seek, but 
Frameworks excels at identifying examples that aren't what the original poster 
had in mind, so please go to it!

Examples will be put to experimental purposes, but can come from any genre, 
thanks in advance.

Hope all of you affected by the Nemo storm are okay and able to find beauty in 
it.

--Eric
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Re: [Frameworks] voyeurism / street photography in exp cinema

[Tom Whiteside]

Also Burckhardt's "Under the Brooklyn Bridge" and "What Mozart Saw on Mulberry 
Street"

From: frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com 
[mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of Andy Ditzler
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 12:20 PM
To: Experimental Film Discussion List
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] voyeurism / street photography in exp cinema

Hi Matt,

It's been awhile since I've seen Rudy Burckhardt's "Eastside Summer," but it's 
spontaneous street photography (lovely, 1950s NYC footage).

I wonder, though, if by "recording people on the street," etc., you mean that 
the filmmaker is shooting one particular spot, or one person, or one activity. 
That would be different than Burckhardt et al. I would think more of the 
sequence from Jim McBride's "David Holzman's Diary" for which the cameraman 
(Michael Wadleigh) shot a handheld 'tracking shot' while walking past a row of 
park benches, filming the people sitting on them. This documentary footage (a 
single long take) is then incorporated into the film's fictional context as if 
it were shot by the film's protagonist.

Andy Ditzler


On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 2:13 PM, matt's frameworks address 
mailto:li...@rodeofilmco.com>> wrote:
Hello Frameworkers,

I am trying to drum up a list of films/videos that use voyeurism and/or street 
photography as a central component.  But in typing this I realize that neither 
'voyeurism' nor 'street photography' are really the correct words/terms to use 
for what I am looking for.  I am interested in the cinematic equivalent of 
'street photography,' specifically films like those made by Nathaniel Dorsky or 
Jem Cohen, where the filmmaker is filmming/recording people on the street 
and/or other public places without their knowledge.  Voyeurism tends to be 
associated with watching people in private spaces doing private things, which 
is not what i am interested in, but the word still lends itself to this query.

Any ideas of films, and good words/terms to describe them would be much 
appreciated!


-Matt

--
---
www.rodeofilmco.com
---
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Re: [Frameworks] voyeurism / street photography in exp cinema

[Tom Whiteside]

However, Walker Evans did work that way on the subway series, correct? He could 
point his (still) camera in that directions and actually be taking a photo in 
another direction. As I understand it, this was deliberate, in order to catch 
people unawares.

Tom
From: frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com 
[mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Kreines
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 3:50 PM
To: j...@joelwanek.com; Experimental Film Discussion List
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] voyeurism / street photography in exp cinema


On Jan 27, 2013, at 2:42 PM, Joel Wanek wrote:


Chuck, Helen Levitt's still camera was nothing specially design to
trick people. She used an eyepiece that is not unlike many of the
optical viewfinders that folks attach to DSLRs today. But, it did allow
her to point her body in a different direction, away from her subjects,
while she shot.

These were fairly common accessories back in the 40s -- right angle finders -- 
check the ads in old issues of Popular Photography.  There was a somewhat odd 
emphasis on "candid" photography which translated into sneak shooting.
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Re: [Frameworks] Singularity and intentional incoherence

[Tom Whiteside]

This is interesting - thanks for asking a fresh question. As a "film person" 
who started out in music decades ago, I have always envied and admired the 
breadth and depth of musicology. Film studies is such a young field - we are 
centuries behind.

 Filmmaker Hollis Frampton made a film titled "Hapax Legomena" which 
immediately comes to mind.

And although Mel Brooks doesn't make this list too often, he's going to hit it 
twice right away. A good example of your singular event would be in his Western 
film "Blazing Saddles," the cowboys are galloping across the plains and the 
movie music is playing on the soundtrack, sounds like Count Basie and His 
Orchestra - well my goodness, it IS Count  Basie and His Orchestra and the 
cowboys just rode right past them, out there on the plains. It's a simple 
thing, played for laughs - the previously unseen soundtrack orchestra revealed 
- but it is quite a singular moment.  And for many people it probably changed, 
at least a little bit, the way they think about "movie music."

There is the moment in Jem Cohen's "Lost Book Found" when the conventional 
"unseen narrator" voice slowly fades out and is replaced by a different, 
unexpected voice, delivering a more cryptic message. It is a pivotal moment in 
that film. Similarly, in Raul Ruiz's "Hypothesis of the Stolen Painting" a guy 
is sitting in a chair talking in rather flat tones, it becomes increasingly 
boring, he slows down and he falls asleep. On camera, the narration just 
goes to sleep. I only saw that film once and am probably not remembering this 
correctly, but I do remember the singularity of my experience sitting there, 
listening to this guy, trying to make sense of it, getting a bit bored, then 
watching him nod off. That woke me up!

TomDurham Cinematheque

From: frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com 
[mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of Ittai Rosenbaum
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 2:37 AM
To: frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com
Subject: [Frameworks] Singularity and intentional incoherence

Hi
My name is Ittai Rosenbaum, I am a doctoral student at the music composition 
department at UCSC and in the process of defining my Qualification Exams 
topics. I wondered if anyone could perhaps have interesting knowledge or 
insights about a subject in film theory that might parallel one of my topics.

I am interested in singular events in composition: events that occur only once, 
contrasted and incoherent to the main musical language of the work, yet 
deliberately conceived and intentionally inserted in the composition, 
contributing, by way of distraction and surprise, to the conception of the 
piece.

Coherence seems to constitute a compulsory element in composition, and even 
incoherence (surprise, collage etc.) as it happens in the music of, say, 
Charles Ives, George Crumb or John Zorn, becomes coherent and even homogenous 
once it recurs. I suspect that singular, incoherent events may have a genuine 
effect, different than that.

I am interested in parallel or similar phenomena in film, as my own 
compositions are more than often related to the visual, verbal, social and 
other elements usually inherent in film.
Far from an expert in films, I do recall several instances where I felt I have 
viewed such singular events in film: the awakening in Chris Marker's La jetée - 
a single moment of two seconds of movement in a film made entirely of stills, 
some moments that I can't recall now in Fellini's films (although usually there 
is a certain "homogeneity of singularity" in the ones I saw), and a comic one, 
in Mel Brooks's Silent Movie, when the famous pantomime Marcel Marceau utters 
the only single word in the film: "no!"

I would be very interested to know if this is something that has been written 
about and generally what your experience and opinion is.

thank you


--
Ittai Rosenbaum
www.ittairosenbaum.com

(650) 704-6566

PRÆSENTEM

http://earbits.com/
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Re: [Frameworks] 8mm/16mm looping

[Tom Whiteside]

If your loops are short enough you don't really need anything special. Put a 
supply reel and a take up reel on the projector,  but of course the film does 
not attach to them, it just passes through them.

If you have slot loaders you can make (and keep) the loops, just splice the 
film into a loop of the appropriate length, load it on the projector and go. 
When done you can remove the loop intact and store it in a can.

If you have any kind of a self-threading projector you need to thread up the 
length of film the same way you would load a regular reel, then make the splice 
to  join the tail to the head and you are good to go. In either case the length 
is limited to a fairly small range, but it's a loop. Can be kind of challenging 
to make that splice in midair, or on top of the projector, but it's not too 
hard. To unload this you should undo the splice, let the film run out of the 
projector, and keep the length of film intact. Of course tape splices are 
easiest in this situation, and you need not lose any frames undoing the splice.

I am rather loopy these days, the piece I am showing Friday at Strange Beauty 
Film Festival here in Durham is CIRCLE SPIRAL SLOW. Not sure how many 
frameworkers know about Strange Beauty, it is annual and this is #4 and it's a 
rather wonderful little fest. Drop in if you are in Bull City.

Tom  Durham Cinematheque

From: frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com 
[mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of matthew brown
Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2013 1:34 AM
To: frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com
Subject: [Frameworks] 8mm/16mm looping

Hi,
I am trying to set-up a basic loop on a super-8 projector and also a 16mm 
projector,
the film would be pretty short, no more than 10ft.

anyone with experience with looping have suggestions/readings/instructions???


thanks so much,
matthew brown
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Re: [Frameworks] Articles/essays on the "loop" in film

[Tom Whiteside]

Along this line - other than the kinetoscope loops are their kin from the very 
earliest days (when they were loops because that's what the technology 
allowed), do most people agree that the washerwoman climbing the stairs in 
Ballet Mecanique was the first loop? Always been curious about that. Pretty 
sure there were no audio loops before that.

Tom

From: frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com 
[mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of Jen Proctor
Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2013 5:02 PM
To: Experimental Film Discussion List
Subject: [Frameworks] Articles/essays on the "loop" in film

Hi everyone,

Can anyone point me to any good writing on the notion of the "loop" in cinema 
(that is, the repetition of a strip of film over and over)? Of course, one of 
the ways cinema got its start was in showcasing simple looped images, but I'm 
particularly interested in its role in avant-garde film, expanded cinema, video 
art, etc. Articles about repetition as a technique would be of interest too, 
though those are a bit easier to come by.

Thanks!
Jen

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Re: [Frameworks] new critical studies film course in car culture

[Tom Whiteside]

The two reeler where L&H destroy Jim Finlayson's automobile (because he won't 
buy a Christmas tree) is Big Business.


From: frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com 
[mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of David Dvorchak
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 4:49 PM
To: Experimental Film Discussion List
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] new critical studies film course in car culture

Laurel and Hardy is "Two Tars"
On Fri, Dec 14, 2012 at 4:47 PM, Chuck Kleinhans 
mailto:chuck...@northwestern.edu>> wrote:
The about to open, On The Road, and an almost endless stream of road movies in 
Hollywood.

There's a famous Laurel and Hardy film (whose name I forget at the moment) 
which includes tearing a car apart in a dispute.

Not about film, per se, but in the 1920s the expansion of relatively 
inexpensive autos created a certain moral panic around cars as mobile bedrooms 
for young people who could escape being chaperoned.

Chuck Kleinhans






On Dec 14, 2012, at 11:57 AM, Bryan Konefsky wrote:

>
> Hello Frameworkers - I am in the early moments of developing a critical 
> studies course that looks at different ways the automobile has been imagined 
> in cinema.  To this end I'd love to hear from ya'll with titles of films that 
> you think might be useful to explore/expand this idea and readings that might 
> also dovetail themes that might be explored.
>
> Do know that my pal Antoni Pinent recently turned me on to a great text 
> titled Car Fetish.
>
> OK, let's hear what ya got!
> best,


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--
Dave Dvorchak
AS220 Communications Director
da...@as220.org
(401) 831-9327 x121


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Re: [Frameworks] new critical studies film course in car culture

[Tom Whiteside]

The L&H in question is Big Business. "Deconstruction" indeed.

-Original Message-
From: frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com 
[mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Kleinhans
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 4:47 PM
To: Experimental Film Discussion List
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] new critical studies film course in car culture

The about to open, On The Road, and an almost endless stream of road movies in 
Hollywood.

There's a famous Laurel and Hardy film (whose name I forget at the moment) 
which includes tearing a car apart in a dispute.

Not about film, per se, but in the 1920s the expansion of relatively 
inexpensive autos created a certain moral panic around cars as mobile bedrooms 
for young people who could escape being chaperoned.

Chuck Kleinhans






On Dec 14, 2012, at 11:57 AM, Bryan Konefsky wrote:

> 
> Hello Frameworkers - I am in the early moments of developing a critical 
> studies course that looks at different ways the automobile has been imagined 
> in cinema.  To this end I'd love to hear from ya'll with titles of films that 
> you think might be useful to explore/expand this idea and readings that might 
> also dovetail themes that might be explored.
> 
> Do know that my pal Antoni Pinent recently turned me on to a great text 
> titled Car Fetish.
> 
> OK, let's hear what ya got!
> best,



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Re: [Frameworks] new critical studies film course in car culture

[Tom Whiteside]

Harrod Blank's films about car art. Su Friedrich's "Rules of the Road." Some of 
the Jam Handy industrial films made for Chevrolet in the 1950's  have been 
called "Corporate Surrealism," the ones I know that best fit this description 
are "Hall of Wonders" and "You're Ahead, Mr. X."   Also the Jam Handy Chevrolet 
"endurance" test films - a pickup truck climbs Pikes Peak off-road in "Meeting 
the Challenge" (1949), and in "Daring the Darien" three red Corvairs cross the 
dense rain forest of the Darien Gap, again "off road" simply because there is 
no road. They cut their way through the jungle with machetes to prove the 
durability of the Corvair, absolutely ridiculous. There was a rather 
fascinating doc from the Middle East a few years back, "The Beetle."

And the O. Winston Link photograph from the back of the drive-in with plane on 
the screen and train passing by. The plane on screen was a trick, but as usual 
the train was the real deal, that was his specialty. The guy used to set up 
something like a quarter mile of flashes to get a shot.

- Tom  Durham Cinematheque

From: frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com 
[mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Konefsky
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2012 2:57 PM
To: frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com
Subject: [Frameworks] new critical studies film course in car culture


Hello Frameworkers - I am in the early moments of developing a critical studies 
course that looks at different ways the automobile has been imagined in cinema. 
 To this end I'd love to hear from ya'll with titles of films that you think 
might be useful to explore/expand this idea and readings that might also 
dovetail themes that might be explored.

Do know that my pal Antoni Pinent recently turned me on to a great text titled 
Car Fetish.

OK, let's hear what ya got!
best,
--
Bryan Konefsky
director, Experiments in Cinema
el presidente, Basement Films
lecturer, Dept of Cinematic Arts UNM
visiting lecturer, UCSC
board of advisors, Ann Arbor Film Festival
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[Frameworks] artist's flip books etc

[Tom Whiteside]

Dear Frameworkers -
I am looking for flip books or other small optical 
toys/devices/objects made by artists, especially experimental filmmakers, to 
display at an upcoming show at Durham Cinematheque. If the artist is 
interested, I would like to offer them for sale. (but it is not necessary to do 
so...)

Not sure what might be out there, but I am especially looking 
for anything that references film and/or photographic technology, film history, 
and the like. I have been making small sculptural pieces using parts and pieces 
of projectors and cameras and bits of film, and am wondering if anyone else has 
anything similar.

Please contact me off-list if you have any questions or leads, 
thanks.

- Tom Whiteside  Durham Cinematheque  
Durham, NC
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Re: [Frameworks] Production Code

[Tom Whiteside]

I believe that Baltimore had one of the last municipal censorship boards in the 
US;  please note that Baltimore also nurtured John Waters.  Thanks, Baltimore!

Tom Whiteside Durham Cinematheque

From: frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com 
[mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Kleinhans
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2012 9:50 PM
To: Experimental Film Discussion List
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Production Code

I agree with the main line of Jonathan Walley's argument, but I would also note 
that the Production Code had a de facto influence rather than a de jure 
influence.  There were many local film censorship boards, and it set a rough 
standard for them.  For example, NYC had its own board that reviewed films 
before theatrical release.  For this reason, Amos Vogel's Cinema 16 was a 
membership organization (a club, so to speak) which allowed it to operate 
without passing any censorship review.  However, any theatrical screenings that 
were open to the public did face possible police problems.  (The same public 
thing applied to live performance and thus covered burlesque, stand up comics, 
etc.)  Jonas Mekas ran into problems several times with screening certain films 
since he operated  in late night screenings at regular commercial venues.

Eventually (mostly in the 1960s and 1970s) assorted court cases modified the 
situation, and the local censorship boards were seen as an anachronism.  In 
Chicago, for example the local board was made up of the widows of police who 
had lost their lives in service: basically, Irish Catholic white women.

But, it's worth remembering that whatever the law and policies in place, actual 
enforcement is in the hands of police (who often operate in the most literal 
frame of mind) and prosecutors (who can pick and choose which "vice" situations 
and events they will pursue).  Thus notoriously conservative Boston did have a 
small restricted "Combat Zone," and NYC's 42nd St. gradually evolved (or 
devolved) from a family entertainment zone into a rather more sleazy one.

But to return to the initial question: (I haven't seen any early Markopouos for 
decades ) is any of it available anywhere?  Is any of it "pornographic" in any 
sense?  Does it even show any sex other than lonely longing?  He withdrew all 
his films and left for elsewhere, and even got Sitney to remove the chapter on 
him from the basic book on US experimental film history.  To the extent is work 
wasn't shown it seems that was largely self-willed.  Could be wrong, though...

Chuck Kleinhans





On Oct 28, 2012, at 6:13 PM, Jonathan Walley wrote:


Eleni,

I'd be interested to hear other peoples' perspective on this, but the
Production Code had little, if anything, to do with censorship
problems encountered by experimental filmmakers like Anger or
Markopoulos. The Code was developed by the film industry (i.e.
Hollywood), and, to the best of my knowledge, only affected the
production (and distribution) of industry films - that is, films made
by the Hollywood studios. It was a mechanism the industry developed to
"self regulate," precisely so their films WOULDN'T be censored by
outside law enforcement or other government authorities. The Code thus
had no bearing on filmmakers working outside the industry, which would
certainly include Anger and Markopoulos.

This isn't to say that such filmmakers faced no censorship - they
faced it from legal authorities and "morality" and "decency" groups -
just that they didn't face it from within the industry, since they
were not a part of that industry and thus were not bound by its
internal strictures. The "rules" of the Code had no legal power, as
they were voluntarily imposed from within the industry BY the industry
itself. They were essentially "company policy," not state or federal
law. And a film released with the Production Code Administration's
seal of approval could still be censored by local government
authorities if those authorities believed the film contravened state
or local laws governing film content.

I read the relevant passages of Russo's book, and while he does
mention the Code while also discussing the films of Anger and other
experimental filmmakers, he seems only to be drawing a - rather vague
- parallel. If I read him right he never actually claims that the
Production Code had any direct impact on experimental films. And if he
DOES say that somewhere, it's not accurate. Any censorship of
experimental films came from the government, not the industry, and
thus not the Code.

I realize this doesn't answer your question about Markopoulos being
censored, but I hope it helps a little.

Best,
Jonathan

Jonathan Walley
Associate Professor of Cinema
Denison University
wall...@denison.edu<mailto:wall...@denison.edu>

On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 7:48 PM, Eleni P

Re: [Frameworks] VITAFILM

[Tom Whiteside]

I have had some success with treating shrunken/warped film in Vitafilm.  I 
believe that Film Renew is a similar product.

I am not a chemist, so I'm not sure how it works. It does not work in every 
case, so you don't know until you try it. I have some film that is now 
projectable that was not before treatment in Vitafilm. I also use it as a film 
cleaner. I bought a gallon many years ago, and still have about half of it. It 
can be re-used. Follow the instructions - it makes an incredibly difficult to 
remove gummy mess out of any kind of tape - no tape splices!

TomDurham Cinematheque

-Original Message-
From: frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com 
[mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of Scott Dorsey
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:18 AM
To: frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] VITAFILM

Vitafilm is made and sold by Stewart Motion Picture Services, stewartmps.com.

I am pretty skeptical of their claims about slowing vinegar syndrome, but it 
can't hurt to try it.  I didn't find it helped the one print I tried it on, but 
it's inexpensive enough that if it has any chance of helping you might as well.

I think the best solution for vinegar syndrome is to either keep the film out 
in a place where it can outgas safely and not affect other films nearby, or 
seal it up in a can with a bunch of molecular sieves to absorb the acid.
Either one will slow things down by preventing the film from sitting in an 
acidic atmosphere.

Cinelab can still make dirty dupes on 7374 stock too, which is sometimes the 
only way to save material that is disintegrating.
--scott

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Re: [Frameworks] Recommended splicer for both 16mm and 8mm cuts?

[Tom Whiteside]

A few notes -  a "hot" splicer is a cement splicer. It need not be hot to use 
it, my Maier-Hancock has always been used cold (just don't plug it in). Film 
cement does not work on ESTAR (mylar) film stocks. Cement splices cannot be 
undone and re-made, so if you change a splice you lose one frame on each piece 
of film. You need film cement, not glue.

A tape splicer will work on all types of film stock (ie, acetate and ESTAR 
bases) and is also handy for repairing broken perforations on film. Good tape 
splicers cut on the frameline, so if you wish to redo a splice you need not 
lose any frames, just peel off the tape and go again. You need splicing tape.

The Kodak presstape splicer is cheap and plentiful and can work on reg 8, 
super8, and 16mm, but I recommend it only for emergency use. Presstapes are 
band-aids.

If you can align the film accurately, a razor blade and some perforated 
splicing tape is the simplest method and it can work fine. "If you can align 
the film accurately" - that is the tricky part.

Tom WhitesideDurham Cinematheque


From: frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com 
[mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of Jason Halprin
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:44 AM
To: Experimental Film Discussion List
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Recommended splicer for both 16mm and 8mm cuts?

I just looked on ebay for "splicer" 16mm and it came up with what would have 
been my first 3 suggestions. Assuming you are looking for a hot (or glue) 
splicer, The Maier-Hancock is great. There is also a Lomo that looks good, 
though I've never used it.

If you want a simplified tape splicer, the Kodak Quick splicer is an option, 
though I've always hated the S shaped cut it makes.

-Jason Halprin
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Re: [Frameworks] PacLab's approach to customer service.

[Tom Whiteside]

It starts before the lab! Every roll of film you ever bought had a disclaimer 
on it - if there was something wrong with the film, even if it was the 
manufacturer's fault,  the manufacturer's liability was limited to replacement 
of that film, only. You could not (successfully) sue them for the cost of the 
set you burned for the shot, the hundreds of plane tickets purchased to get 
cast and crew to that location, the millions of dollars you had to pay to get 
the "stars" back for a re-shoot, etc.

In each case - film manufacturing and lab processing - it makes sense. "But 
that was the last picture of my grandfather before he died!"  "Well, we can 
give you a replacement roll of film." It is a harsh reality.

Tom  Durham Cinematheque

-Original Message-
From: frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com 
[mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of Steven
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 11:49 AM
To: frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] PacLab's approach to customer service.

On 8/25/12 12:46 AM, Robert Houllahan wrote:
> It hard to run a film lab. Mistakes get made.
>
When I was in college I read the back of a lab order sheet, it was very 
interesting.

Essentially once you drop off the film the lab could intentionally destroy your 
film, open and expose it to lights, etc. etc. and all they would be responsible 
for was giving you free developing for the amount of film that was destroyed.

The images are irreplaceable, and no value can be put on it. imagine if the 
Zapruda film had been mis-developed. Try cashing in on the insurance on that 
one - "Okay, so first we got to get a new president. . ."
It sucks when the film is destroyed, and Pac lab may not be the lab for you, 
you may not connect with them as you or they wish. Plus we don't know the 
details of the entire conversation - probably no need to share, we've all had 
conversations that end similar to yours - I've had film ruined because someone 
elses film ahead of mine had been spliced badly (by the film maker not the lab) 
and it sucks, heart breaking, so difficult to continue on and you just want to 
blame someone else, never use that camera again, blame Kodak, Fuji, even 
yourself for choosing that path - I still will never forgive the neg cutter who 
gave me a jump cut despite my explicit order not to - saved me 50 cents a 
splice, and I'm sure others swore by him, and I could tell you more stories and 
stories.

Mourn, grieve, find another lab if you can, or if not approach PAC lab, and say 
you want it professional, and take the emotion out of it, and move forward.

We all feel your pain, and understand the situation, we've had it happen to us, 
don't let it discourage you.

Best

--
Steven Gladstone
New York Based Filmmaker
917-886-5858
http://www.gladstonefilms.com
http://indiekicker.reelgrok.com/
http://www.blakehousemovie.com
http://www.hellion.gladstonefilms.com

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Re: [Frameworks] Large Lightbox?

[Tom Whiteside]

Old X-Ray viewing boxes are excellent light boxes, maybe you can find one in 
medical surplus as I have in the past. Good luck.

Tom  Durham Cinematheque

From: frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com 
[mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of Dinorah de Jesús 
Rodriguez
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 12:09 PM
To: Experimental Film Discussion List
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Large Lightbox?

Liz,  I know it's a daunting thought, but in the end it will be worth the while 
to have someone build you a custom light-box.  The search for the perfect 
light-box can be eternal, and in my case, resulted in lots of time i could have 
saved if i had just built it from the start.  in the end, i finally had to do 
it anyway.  today, this is the single most valuable piece of equipment that i 
own!!!

good luck.

enjoy today...

Dinorah de Jesús Rodríguez
Multimedia Artist


solislandmediaworks.com
artcinematic.blogspot.com
elusivelandscape.blogspot.com
youtube.com/user/solisland







On Aug 24, 2012, at 11:24 AM, lizzymcalpine wrote:


Hi
i wonder if anyone could help i am trying to get hold f a large Lightbox to 
view a huge amount of 35mm frames on - i seem to remember when i was at art 
college that the photography department had a huge one that was probably about 
150 cm x 80 cm - I've had a look on eBay but can't seem to find anything - i 
was wondering if anyone had any advise about where i can find one -
i guess the next thing to do would be to build one but i would like to avoid 
this if possible.
any suggestions would be great
best wishes
Elizabeth

Elizabeth McAlpine

Studio Address

Studio 10, 10 Martello Street, London E8 3EP.

Home Address

Unit 2, 198 Blackstock Road, London. N5 1EN

Mob: 07802 29

Email: elizab...@elizabethmcalpine.com

Web: www.elizabethmcalpine.com

OCTOPUS 12: FIRST AMONGST EQUALS (PART I), REBECCA BAUMANN, LEN LYE, CHRISTIAN 
MARCLAY, ELIZABETH MCALPINE, PAUL PFEIFFER CURATOR: LEIGH ROBB Gertrude 
Contemporary, Melbourne, Australia, 13July - 18 August 2012

A Portrait Laura Bartlett Gallery, London. 29 June- 18 August 2012 (Solo Show)


The Map of Exactitude Laurel Gitlen New York April 29 - July 1, 2012 (Solo Show)
Review: 
http://galleristny.com/2012/05/15/underworlds-jan-muller-at-lori-bookstein-and-elizabeth-mcalpine-at-laurel-gitlen/

Second Nature: Abstract Photography Then and Now, deCordova Sculpture Park and 
Museum, Lincoln, MA, May 26, 2012-April 21, 2013.

CINEMA Voorkamer, Lier, Belgium 11May - 8 July 2012,

http://www.laurabartlettgallery.co.uk

http://laurelgitlen.com





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[Frameworks] projector sound

[Tom Whiteside]

I was rather amazed last November when a guy came to the same film program two 
nights in a row, the second night he said he wasn't going to watch the program 
again, he just wanted to make an audio recording of the 16mm projectors.

Perhaps you could borrow his audio recording for your screening of Mothlight.  
Sorry, I didn't get a name.

Tom  Durham Cinematheque


Bryan McManus wrote:
I've only seen Brakhage's "mothlight" digitally - and would love to see it on 
film because of the sound the projector makes.

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Re: [Frameworks] Film and Digital for beginners

[Tom Whiteside]

One could paint one half of a frame, or bleach out one-tenth of a frame.

-Original Message-
From: frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com 
[mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of Bernd Luetzeler
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2012 6:01 AM
To: Experimental Film Discussion List
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Film and Digital for beginners

Hi Jonathan,

one important aspect is that in film,
the smallest unit one can modify is the frame, while in digital video the 
smallest unit is the pixel.

cheers

Bernd


Am 13.07.2012 um 22:42 schrieb Jonathan Walley:

> Hello everyone,
> 
> This question isn't about experimental cinema specifically, but it's 
> certainly an important question for our world, and I think experimental 
> filmmakers (and scholars, critics, etc.) are among those best equipped to 
> answer it. So here goes. There is some preamble meant to set the stage, but 
> you can skim it and skip down to the question if you want.
> 
> Each semester I teach an introductory cinema studies course called "Film 
> Aesthetics and Analysis." The main goal of the course is to teach students 
> how to analyze film aesthetics (in case the title of the class didn't make 
> this obvious), and it is aimed at the general campus community, not just 
> Cinema majors. Indeed, the majority of students in the class are non-majors 
> who have never studied film before.
> 
> Early in the course I talk about filmmaking on a very material level - call 
> it the "nuts and bolts" of filmmaking, a subject I return to periodically 
> across the semester (e.g. how cameras work, the process of editing, 
> projection, etc.). I have always privileged film - that is, analogue, 
> photochemical, mechanical, "celluloid" film - but to keep up with the times I 
> have been trying to talk more about digital cinema technology, with a view to 
> contrasting the two media. Though I'm a luddite when it comes to film, I'm 
> not necessarily interested in converting my students to that mindset, nor to 
> favoring one medium over another. I simply want my students to understand the 
> ramifications of shooting, editing, projecting, and viewing films on 
> different media.
> 
> SO NOW, THE QUESTION: what would you say are some of the most important, and 
> most fundamental, differences between making and/or seeing "films" in these 
> two media, in terms that intro-level undergrads can understand and 
> appreciate. For example:
> 
> -true black is not possible in digital projection the same way it is in film 
> projection (something I can actually demonstrate in class).
> -differences in resolution.
> -different "lifespans" of film and digital.
> 
> And so on and so forth. Though I do talk about things outside the realm of 
> film aesthetics specifically (such as the cost of digital conversion, 
> preservation issues, etc.), my main interest is in showing my students the 
> concrete, appreciable consequences that attend the decision to do something 
> in film or in digital. And to be able to demonstrate them in class with 
> specific examples - using the 16mm and digital projectors I have in the 
> classroom - would be nice, so suggestions of such specific examples would be 
> appreciated.
> 
> Thanks in advance for any ideas.
> Best,
> Jonathan
> 
> Jonathan Walley
> Dept. of Cinema
> Denison University
> 
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Re: [Frameworks] Interesting (?) Question

[Tom Whiteside]

She kind of has that "I've been in the editing room too long" look, you can see 
it in the eyes..

-Original Message-
From: frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com 
[mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of Scott Dorsey
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 9:22 AM
To: frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Interesting (?) Question

> Agree that Moviola flatbeds sucked, though the M77's built-in ashtray 
> and avocado-green body were truly echt-70s.

I like the ashtray, it is very useful for holding all the screws and washers 
and other bits that are constantly falling off the machine.

Also, we had a very skilled operator: http://www.panix.com/~kludge/editor3.jpg
--scott


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Re: [Frameworks] Interesting (?) Question

[Tom Whiteside]

Whatever the cost, ADD SHIPPING.  Of course now they are free, "you pick up."

From: frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com 
[mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of andrew lampert
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 10:44 PM
To: Experimental Film Discussion List
Subject: [Frameworks] Interesting (?) Question

Hi,

I received the inquiry below from a novelist and wonder if the collective brain 
trust that is Frameworks might help me provide an answer. Anyone have an idea? 
If so, I'll pass along your answers/guesses to her. Thanks a lot!

Andrew Lampert
Curator of Collections
Anthology Film Archives


>> Do you have any idea what a new or used Moviola might have cost in 1980 or
>> so?  It's more likely that my character would have bought a second-hand
>> Moviola, maybe one that had been used in the the 1970's.
>>
>> My character is going to resell the Moviola, along with a lot of other
>> nondigital 16 mm equipment (like splicers, a synchronizer, rewinds) in
>> 2005--and get a lot less money for the stuff than he paid for it.  So I have
>> to start with some reasonably accurate original price.
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Re: [Frameworks] 16mm sound projector speakers

[Tom Whiteside]

I have had excellent results coming out of projectors by using the 1/4" jack to 
a DI (stands for Direct Input, I believe) which gives you an XLR output to a  
sound system, microphone level. Many DI's have a switch to select "Instrument" 
or "Speaker" levels, coming out of a projector you want to choose Speaker 
unless otherwise indicated. A good DI (also simply called a Direct Box) is what 
many guitar and keyboard players use between their instruments and the PA 
systems they play through. It should also give you a ground lift switch, well 
worth having for those instances when you want to get rid of a 60 cycle hum.
Scott is right - if you are driving an 8 ohm speaker you don't need anything 
other than the cable from projector to speaker. But if you are connecting to a 
sound system  (mixer, amplifier, and speakers), get a good direct box. You can 
find them at any music store that sells electric gear. They now also come with 
1/8" and RCA inputs so you can use them to get your iPod, laptop, or CD/DVD 
player into the sound system cleanly.

Tom Durham Cinematheque

-Original Message-
From: frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com 
[mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of Scott Dorsey
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 8:06 PM
To: frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] 16mm sound projector speakers

Most of those projectors have a standard 1/4" phone jack on them, which can 
drive any 8-ohm speakers.  Some of the Bell and Howell machines have a 0.175" 
phone jack which is a little smaller and requires a special connector that 
you'll have to order from an electronics supplier. 

The signal level coming out of there is speaker level, much higher than the 
line level you would want to put into an amp although you can buy a "direct 
inject" box that will give you a microphone level signal.  I suggest if you 
want to drive an external amplifier that you have them modified to give you a 
proper line output, though, as this will sound a lot better.
--scott
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Re: [Frameworks] Trust your instinct and don't go for the cliche.

[Tom Whiteside]

Oh crap I just saw this part :

Filming in certain areas is strictly prohibited and could result in a large 
fine or possibly arrest!

All bets are off, I think this might be dangerous. Oh well.

- Tom

-Original Message-
From: frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com 
[mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of Tom Whiteside
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 1:39 PM
To: Experimental Film Discussion List
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Trust your instinct and don't go for the cliche.

Freya -
This is brilliant, thank you for sharing. I didn't realize how many 
things I've been getting wrong for so many years! It's clear to me now, step by 
step, wow.

Anthology Film Archives, here I come! And I'm NOT going for the cliché; 
I'm going to trust my instinct and this handy-dandy guide. Cheers.

- Tom   Durham Cinematheque

-Original Message-
From: 
frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com<mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com>
 
[mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com]<mailto:[mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com]>
 On Behalf Of Freya
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 6:59 AM
To: Experimental Film Discussion List
Subject: [Frameworks] Trust your instinct and don't go for the cliche.


How to make a good experimental film.

Just follow the forumla/magic steps in this handy wiki and you will be well on 
your way! :)

http://www.wikihow.com/Create-a-Good-Experimental-Film

love

Freya
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Re: [Frameworks] Trust your instinct and don't go for the cliche.

[Tom Whiteside]

Freya -
This is brilliant, thank you for sharing. I didn't realize how many 
things I've been getting wrong for so many years! It's clear to me now, step by 
step, wow.

Anthology Film Archives, here I come! And I'm NOT going for the cliché; 
I'm going to trust my instinct and this handy-dandy guide. Cheers.

- Tom   Durham Cinematheque

-Original Message-
From: frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com 
[mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of Freya
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2012 6:59 AM
To: Experimental Film Discussion List
Subject: [Frameworks] Trust your instinct and don't go for the cliche.


How to make a good experimental film.

Just follow the forumla/magic steps in this handy wiki and you will be well on 
your way! :)

http://www.wikihow.com/Create-a-Good-Experimental-Film

love

Freya
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Re: [Frameworks] cutout/collage animators

[Tom Whiteside]

Lotte Reiniger, really?  I guess I haven't seen everything, but what I have 
seen is shadow puppets, not collage.

TomDurham Cinematheque


On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 5:47 PM, Jaimie Baron 
mailto:jaimierba...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Frameworks,
I'm putting together a list of experimental animators who use cutout/collage 
techniques, particularly those who use "found" materials (which is kind of all 
of them, I know, but I'm particularly interesting in recognizable found 
materials). I'm looking for relevant filmmakers both past and present. So far I 
have Lotte Reiniger, Harry Smith, Stan VanDerBeek, Terry Gilliam, Larry Jordan, 
Lewis Klahr, Eric Patrick, Jodie Mack, Stacey Steers, and Leslie Supnet. I know 
there are many more. Any suggestions for filmmakers/films? Thanks!
Jaimie


Jaimie Baron, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor of Film Studies
The University of Alberta

Director
The Festival of (In)appropriation
http://festivalofinappropriation.org/


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--
Caryn Cline
Filmmaker and Teacher
New York City and Seattle, WA
vimeo.com/carynyc


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Re: [Frameworks] Hand-cranking 16mm projector?

[Tom Whiteside]

The Bell & Howell 173 is a 16mm analytic projector and it can be hand-cranked 
or run by the variable speed motor. A beautiful machine and a real workhorse. 
There are similar models by other makers, and because analytics are not sound 
projectors they can be rather inexpensive (gee, who would want a silent film 
projector?) They used to be quite common, there were tons of them in use in 
athletics before the advent of videotape.
Someone mentioned toy projectors - they can be fine as props, but the mechanics 
are often so rudimentary it's always dicey to run film through them. Some are 
ok, others are horrible.

Tom   Durham Cinematheque

From: frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com 
[mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Harris
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 3:46 PM
To: frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Hand-cranking 16mm projector?

Hey Kevin,

I seem to recall that Alex MacKenzie used a hand-cranked projector for a 
performance called "the wooden lightbox: a secret art of seeing" at last year's 
(2011) Crossroads Film Festival.  I think Alex made the projector himself so 
maybe he can be a resource for you: 
www.alexmackenzie.com

Good luck!

CH
> From: ke...@videohaiku.com
> Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 12:22:31 -0500
> To: frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com
> Subject: [Frameworks] Hand-cranking 16mm projector?
>
> Hello!
>
> I'm working on an installation project, and wondering if there's such a thing 
> as a basic hand-cranking 16mm projector, available for sale, or as something 
> I could strip down from an existing projector.
>
> I'm mostly interested in the frame-advance mechanism - I don't need it to 
> have any kind of bulb or motor.
>
> Any information / leads / ideas would be very much appreciated!
>
> Thanks,
>
> Kevin Obsatz
> www.videohaiku.com
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Re: [Frameworks] 16mm Splicer

[Tom Whiteside]

The Kodak splicer uses Kodak Press tapes, they come individually wrapped in 
paper and are applied somewhat like a bandaid. Press tapes come in different 
sizes for 8mm, super8, and 16. The "universal" model of press tape splicer cuts 
all three formats. The curve in the 16mm cut of a press tape splicer is quite a 
jolt on screen, and unless you want that visible jolt I wouldn't use press 
tapes.

I use double-sided tape splices for material that is going to be run through 
the projector many times; if I'm just trying something to see how it works then 
a single-sided tape splice is fine. Other than the Kodak, tape splices are cut 
right on the frame line, so if you want to change a cut you can take the tape 
off and both pieces of film are ready for a different edit, you don't lose a 
frame.

Some projectors have a problem with tape splices, depending on the pressure 
plate in the gate. The splices should run smoothly through a properly adjusted 
projector, but if a projector is finicky you are going to have more trouble 
with double sided splices than with single sided ones.

A friend who has shot and edited video for many years was in my studio 
recently, I was talking with him while I was working at the editing bench (16mm 
film). He surprised me with an audible GASP when I used scissors to cut a piece 
of film to prepare for an edit. He said it seemed so violent. I still can't get 
over that. He uses that little razor blade in FCP all the time!

TomDurham, NC


From: frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com 
[mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Timmins
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 5:10 AM
To: FrameWorks
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] 16mm Splicer

Hi,

Thanks for the help on splicers. All very useful! I actually think I have the 
Kodak press tape splicer somewhere. After googling it I remember getting one in 
with a box of super 8 stuff ages ago. I'll have to go and have a look for it. 
What kind of tape does it use?

How can you tell the difference visually between the one/two sided Catozzo 
splicers? Is one recommended over the other or are they pretty much identical 
aside from the little bit of extra tape you can cut off/fold over on the double.

Todd, I might be interested in the splicer although you'll have to give me a 
price because I'm really not versed in 16mm equipment.

Best
Kevin


> From: hell...@agit-prop.com
> To: frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com
> Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2012 20:22:08 -0700
> Subject: Re: [Frameworks] 16mm Splicer
>
>
>
> The blades and punches can be sharpened, and they mostly likely will
> need it if you buy a used splicer. Disassemble it and take the blades
> and punches to a place that sharpens saws and industrial cutters. But
> explain to them what and how it cuts. The punches need to be ground
> from the inside of the little V to maintain the outer profile. The
> blades should be ground from the outside, with minimal bevel on the
> inside faces.
>
> Clean the rest with acetone to remove the tape gunk.
>
> The actual film plate in the base of the splicer is the other half of
> the cutting surface, but it wears less than the blades and punches if
> everything is properly aligned. If the edges of the plate and/or the
> perf holes are excessively worn, you'll never get a clean splice.
>
> The blades are spring steel, slightly curved to align with pressure to
> the base plate. Dullness is more of an issue there than alignment. As
> the baseplate wears to less than 16mm, the blades just take a wee bit
> of film off with the tape. If the perf holes in the plate are
> oversized, you can't make the punches bigger. Just pick the hanging
> chads off with tweezers.
>
> I have one of the double sided 16mm splicers I will probably never
> use... If anyone needs it, make me an interesting offer.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Todd Eacrett
> Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> On Fri, 1 Jun 2012 19:31:40 -0400, David Tetzlaff 
> mailto:djte...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> There are actually different kinds of guillotine (Catozzo-type)
> splicers, one designed mainly for making workprint splices (one sided),
> and another designed for making projector splices (two-sided): though
> you can use either for the other with reduced convenience. The
> two-sided model cuts the tape with a flap to the bottom that you just
> fold over to cover the other side. To make a one-side splice with it,
> you have to trim off the flap. To make a two-sided splice with the
> one-side splicer, you have to turn the film over and around and repeeat
> the process on the other side -- it was easier with double perf, but
> hah, those were the days.
> >
> > The problems with guillotine splicers: * the blades that cut across
> > the width of the splicing tape get dull and misaligned, but it's
> > pretty easy to do it manually with an xacto knife
> > * the punches that put sprocket holes in the tape often leave
> > little pieces hanging, and they're a pa

Re: [Frameworks] 16mm projector Lens

[Tom Whiteside]

The "normal" lens for 16mm film is the 50mm lens, which is what you've got, 
which of course may or may not be the right focal length for a given situation, 
it's simply the most common lens. I'm not sure what lenses fit an Elf, but for 
other makes 38mm lenses are fairly common and you can find them on eBay. This 
would give a larger image. But it is NOT one size fits all, and some people 
selling lenses on eBay have absolutely no idea what they are selling.

Do you really want a still picture? I'd leave that lever alone.

Tom


From: frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com 
[mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Timmins
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 1:13 PM
To: FrameWorks
Subject: [Frameworks] 16mm projector Lens

Hi Frameworks,

Following on from the belts for my Elf RT... I fitted the new belts and it 
seems to work wonderfully.

There does seem to be a few small problems with it however. The most dramatic 
one seems to be the still picture lever. I assume you're meant to pull the 
leaver down and then the film is held still in the gate? However there is this 
awful screeching noise and I don't have the guts to fully pull it fully down in 
fear of breaking something.

Then there is the automatic threading guides. The film automatically threads ok 
but when I tug the film the automatic threading guide wont release like it's 
meant too. This doesn't seem like a major issue. I simply just pushed the 
threading guide to the right and it released fine.

Lastly there is a lens problem. Well it's not so much a problem with the lens 
as opposed to the small room I'm using the projector in. The image that is 
projected is rather small. I'm using the 16 1:1.3/50 lens. Is there a better 
lens to use in tight situations for the Elf projectors?

Thanks in advance for any help.
Kevin

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Re: [Frameworks] fundraising

[Tom Whiteside]

One issue in fundraising is fiscal sponsorship. Some funding organizations 
(foundations) will not give money to you as an individual but will make a 
contribution to the project though a non-profit, tax deductible (501c3) 
institution, your fiscal sponsor. Women Make Movies is one, the one I've worked 
with in the past is Southern Documentary Fund. There are others. Generally you 
apply to them, show that you have a valid project and a realistic fundraising 
plan; if they approve your project then donations to your project go directly 
to the fiscal sponsor, they hold it for you and pay disbursements as you turn 
in your receipts and stick to the script (so to speak). The fiscal sponsor 
charges a fee for this, roughly 5-10%.  Another advantage to fiscal sponsorship 
is that individual donations are tax deductible. Mary didn't give YOU $100 for 
your project (not tax deductible), she gave it to your fiscal sponsor, and it 
is a tax deductible contribution for her. A good fiscal sponsor might also be 
able to help you with your grant applications, etc. - if you have a 
professional grant writer that is great, but the bottom line is that well 
written grants are infinitely more likely to get funded. If you want to make 
the kinds of films you have to raise money for, you have to learn how to do 
this part of it, or partner with someone who knows.

Kickstarter and the like do not require fiscal sponsorship, and most fiscal 
sponsors do not want to get involved with Kickstarter(s) - they really are DIY. 
 But your plan to make the first chapter Is a good one, and a common approach - 
we invest what we can to make the work-in-progress reel, then we show that as a 
fundraiser for the big project.

Tom  Durham NC

From: frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com 
[mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of Caryn Cline
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 9:26 AM
To: Experimental Film Discussion List
Subject: [Frameworks] fundraising

Dear Frameworkers,

My earlier question about USA Projects (to which Gene Youngblood kindly 
responded) prompts another, more general one: what about fundraising?  I 
typically make short films and mostly fund them myself, but I'm now involved in 
a bigger, collaborative project.  The writer/producer and I (the 
producer/director) have enough money to make the first, least expensive 
"chapter" of a triptych of short films.  We plan to make the first part this 
summer and then use it to raise money for the second two parts of the project 
(the total budget is about 20K) .

We believe that the best time to engage in fundraising is after we have this 
first piece finished, when we have something concrete to show, and our 
potential donors have something to look at and judge.  The grant-writing and 
funding cycle seems beyond us for many reasons, not least of which are the time 
and energy it takes to look for funding and develop proposals when you are 
trying to also make the work.  I fear the more direct "Kickstarter"-style 
campaign is so ubiquitous these days that potential funders are experiencing 
burnout.  I'm old enough that some of my potential donors aren't frequent users 
of social media, so my co-producer and I are also thinking of sending out 
e-mails or even letters to them.

I would love to hear about any experiences those of you who frequent this list 
have with fundraising, and the pros and cons of using social media sites, 
e-mail, snail mail, and asking for money from friends, family, colleagues.  I 
hope these questions will be beneficial to others on this list.

Thank you and best wishes,

CC
--
Caryn Cline
Filmmaker and Teacher
New York City and Seattle, WA
vimeo.com/carynyc


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Re: [Frameworks] Film Projectors + University Rules

[Tom Whiteside]

Over the years I have heard many people say they cannot recommend autoloaders, 
yes I know I know, but I think this is a matter of personal preference. I've 
been using Bell & Howell autoloaders for many years and generally do not have 
any trouble with them.  Many of them have silent and sound speed (important to 
me), and a variety of lenses are readily available. If you are fortunate enough 
to have a stock of the Marc 300 lamps (beware - they are no longer made) a 1568 
or similar model projects a very bright image. Most of the classroom projectors 
use bulbs that are not as bright, but are easy to find and relatively 
inexpensive (BHB, EMM/EKS, ELC.)

ANY projector 30+ years old should be overhauled by a competent technician at 
this point, so go ahead and pay for the new worm gear on a B&H autoload and you 
will have -IMHO - a nice workable projector for many years to come. 

- Tom Durham Cinematheque 

-Original Message-
From: frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com 
[mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of Scott Dorsey
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 9:49 AM
To: frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com
Cc: frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Film Projectors + University Rules


My personal recommendation would be for the very old B&H 300-series projectors, 
because they are manually threaded, they are incredibly light on film (and the 
only classroom projectors I would EVER recommend running a camera original on), 
and the models with magnetic sound can be easily modified into double-system 
interlock projectors.

The problem is that they are very old, and I would want one to be thoroughly 
gone over before I put film in it.

But in general, I would suggest just avoiding autoloaders, and avoiding 
slotloaders.

Some places that sell theatrical projection gear will have some classroom 
projectors around.  Cardinal Sound and Motion Picture in Baltimore, ICECO in 
Miami Jay Gemski in the DC area.

If you get desperate I can probably sell you a couple rebuilt Pageants...
they aren't anything to write home about but they have been cleaned up nicely.
The Pageants don't have a lower sprocket between the lower loop and the sound 
head, resulting in higher sound flutter than you want, and they don't take 
standard lenses, but they are not too hard on film and they are easy to work 
on.  I think all of mine have modern electronics with line level out only.
--scott
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Re: [Frameworks] wish to post

[Tom Whiteside]

Ben, you just posted, it's as easy as that.

Welcome to the forum, just speak up. Cheers.


-  Tom

From: frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com 
[mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of Ben Gwilliam
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 6:52 PM
To: frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com
Subject: [Frameworks] wish to post

Dear Frameworks,

Having subscribed to your list, I would like to post something. Would you 
please add me to the forum?

Best wishes
Ben Gwilliam
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[Frameworks] Full Frame Documentary Film Festival

[Tom Whiteside]

If anyone plans to be in Durham next week for the Full Frame Documentary Film 
Festival, give me a holler off-line if you'd like to visit the newly opened 
Durham Cinematheque and see the inaugural show, "CARDS: ALMOST TWO DECKS."  
Location is right there at the festival, next to the Armory.  There is also a 
small exhibition of projectors, magic lantern slides and cinematic ephemera 
(think Polavision, a projector made by Psychotechnics, etc.)

And if you happen to be coming one day early I will be screening my new show 
FILMISTORY.2 on Wednesday night, April 11th. This is a rambunctious program 
featuring more than 20 films 100+ years old, a Review of American Presidents 
(up to a certain point), a runaway horse, two English cathedrals, and riffs on 
Potemkin. This is a 50 minute show, three screens, 16mm, seating is limited and 
reservations are required.

Durham Cinematheque is a one person organization and it has been housed in my 
basement until now. Under this moniker I've done about 80 shows since 1991 in a 
variety of locations in Bull City. No website, only bricks and mortar and 
acetate cellulose for now.


-      Tom Whiteside   Durham, North Carolina
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Re: [Frameworks] Home Movies programe

[Tom Whiteside]

Family Album by Alan Berliner! Also pretty much anything by Peter Forgazs

Good luck -Tom

From: frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com 
[mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of luis ?
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 4:13 PM
To: Experimental Film Discussion List
Subject: [Frameworks] Home Movies programe

Hi Frameworks!

I'm preparing a programm about Found Footage using home movies.

For example Cécile Fontaine, Laboratorium (spain), Pat O'neil, Su Frederich...

Any other suggestion? Filmmakers, films, texts??

Thanks!
Luis Macías
629709266
mabaluf...@gmail.com
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Re: [Frameworks] digital Bolex

[Tom Whiteside]

Along that line, I am awaiting the Digital Polavision camera, gonna be 
awesome

From: frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com 
[mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of Ryder White
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 2:47 AM
To: Experimental Film Discussion List
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] digital Bolex

Can't wait until they come out with an S8 one, maybe a digi-Nizo? 8mm sensor! 
Comes with its own "classic cartridge design" removable media. Or maybe just a 
pistol grip and faux-chrome-and-leatherette housing for your iPhone so you can 
use that S8 instagram app without having to look like "that guy".

Affordable raw 2K? Cool. Fake handle? I'm putting the cash back in my wallet to 
await a product that deserves to be taken seriously.

RW

On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 7:25 PM, Herb Theriault 
mailto:he...@theria.ca>> wrote:
Here's an interesting take on it, from Stu Maschwitz

http://prolost.com/bolex




Christian Bruno mailto:honeyhou...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
Someone just sent this to me, and I was curious if anyone has seen it too.
The Digital Bolex.
www.kickstarter.com/projects/joedp/the-digital-bolex-the-1st-affordable-digital-cinem?ref=card
and if anyone has some thoughts on it.

best
Christian

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[Frameworks] more on the Academy

[Tom Whiteside]

I started this yesterday but shelved it; now that others have posted I am a bit 
more confident and will send ---

This is such an interesting statement. I know what you mean, but still... There 
are avant-garde sympathetic folks at the Academy...  Could we possibly hope 
for "supportive" or even aim for "enthusiastic?"  OK, how about substantial 
funding for Canyon Cinema and the other 20 or so (100?) small avant-garde film 
organizations that need it right now? Take a tiny fraction of what you spend on 
regular old Lavish Hollywood Lifestyle and show some respect for experimental 
film.

It is very nice, it really is, that both Brakhage and Kuchar got their memorial 
moments at the Oscars, but why not something for them while they were still 
alive?

I know the Academy is doing very important work in film preservation and that's 
really all I know about their connection to experimental film. But taken as an 
industry, taken as American Culture #1, taken as a commercial art form that has 
learned and benefitted from the work created by experimental film pioneers for 
decades, why not show some respect and take 0.5% of the Movie Star Champagne 
Budget and fund art in this country?  Painting had an Academy once, but some 
painters broke away from it.

Tom
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[Frameworks] Winnipeg?

[Tom Whiteside]

Hey Winnipeg, it's Durham calling. We had so many films (eight) from your fair 
city at the recent Strange Beauty Film Festival that I just had to comment on 
it. Everyone was talking about it over the weekend, and each screening opened 
with a short YouTube yoo-hoo (or something like that) from Manitoba. Clever 
festival organizers had made contact early so we had plenty of Winnipeg swag. I 
got a key chain. And there was a haiku contest with a nice hockey jacket as a 
prize, I'm not sure who claimed that one, but I know that the competition was 
somewhat vicious for a poetry contest.

Anyway, just wanted to check in, say hello, and point out the fact that is was 
17.7 degrees Celsius in Durham on Saturday. Howzit up your way? Come see us!


-      Tom Whiteside Durham, North Carolina


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Re: [Frameworks] canyon in the news (bad news dept)

[Tom Whiteside]

Wow this is harsh and somewhat ridiculous. This reply, below, is the cynical 
one. David has it absolutely right, his assessment rings true and it is based 
in real world experience, not some pouting ideology. And he is a teacher, so I 
do hope he is one  "who cares what students think today."  Jeez Louise, I hope 
not only film professors do, but physics and sociology and biomedical 
engineering profs, too. In my experience, lots of people care about what 
students (and other humans) think.

I remember well the days (more than a decade, actually) when I was "pro film" 
which meant I was "anti video" but that was quite some time ago. Like most 
informed people in the field, I can appreciate the advantages, disadvantages, 
and compromises that each format embodies. With a special interest in early 
cinema, it is difficult to get many prints for my collection, but I sure as 
hell like all the DVD's that are available, it is absolutely fantastic. For 
shows I use film all the time, always have and always will. These days when I 
set up a 16mm projector for a public show people act as if I had driven to the 
place in a horse and buggy, they pull out their phones to take pictures of a 
Bell & Howell autoload, I can't help but snicker. In November I had one guy 
come back the second night just to record the sound of the projector. So I 
realize and appreciate how exotic my chosen medium of 16mm film has become. 
Frankly, it is a good thing - it has allowed me to raise my fees! I think that 
film presentation on projectors will become somewhat akin to the performance of 
Baroque music on period instruments. My projectors (although some are perhaps 
only 30 years old) are period instruments. Perhaps I should project bewigged.

Experimental film coops need someone to step up and start giving multi-million 
dollar support, "art has always needed benefactors," you are right about that. 
Sorry, but it ain't going to be me.


-   Tom


>Way too cynical.

>Plus, video isn't film, art has always needed benefactors, and who cares what 
>students think today? Any film student who >resents film is a moron. Let them 
>study their videos.



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Re: [Frameworks] What to do with one roll of nitrate film?

[Tom Whiteside]

A silent musical comedy? Is there an optical soundtrack? Nitrate was common up 
until the early 50's, way past the silent era.

If I were you I'd get rid of it. A funky looking roll of nitrate is no joke. 
But it sounds like it might be worthwhile to photograph those stalagmites on 
the reel. Just be careful with your lights!

Perhaps you could ask PFA if they are interested in it, or could recommend 
someone who would be.

If you don't mind sacrificing a few frames it's rather instructive to cut off a 
short bit, put it outside on the sidewalk and put a match to it, maybe with 
some kind of a short fuse. Now imagine 200' of tightly wound film. A nitrate 
fire is unstoppable.

Good luck and be safe!


-  Tom
From: frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com 
[mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of k. a.r.
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 4:44 PM
To: frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com
Subject: [Frameworks] What to do with one roll of nitrate film?

hello.

I have one roll of nitrate film in my collection.

I recently looked at it for the first time in a year or so, I keep it stored in 
a drawer with  more modern 16mm.

The metal reel that it is on has started to grow these oxidized looking 
stalagmites and the whole reel is looking kind
of funky.
I wonder what I can do with it?

The images are a partial reel of some musical comedy from the silent era.
It is 35mm.
Seems to be about 150-200' long.

I'm assuming that if anyone wanted it, I can't mail it, due to it's extremely 
flammable nature.

So any ideas or suggestions of what to do with this roll?

thanks.








Kristie Reinders, B.F.A.
Director of Cinematography, Electric Visions
Curator and Head Projectionist, Electric Mural Project
The Mission, San Francisco, CA

'A first class technician should work best under pressure.'
- - - Issac Asimov
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Re: [Frameworks] US civil rights related films?

[Tom Whiteside]

Did anyone mention the relatively recently released "Black Power Mixtape 
1967-1975?"

From: frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com 
[mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of ev petrol
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 3:39 PM
To: frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] US civil rights related films?

Thanks gents!!

www.moiratierney.net
www.soluscollective.org

From: Adam Hyman 
To: Experimental Film Discussion List ; Moira 
Tierney 
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 6:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] US civil rights related films?

Also check out California Newsreel for a variety of works.


On 2/14/12 2:17 PM, "robert harris"  wrote:
Passin' it On
http://www.docurama.com/docurama/passin-it-on/

Framing the Panthers in Black and White
http://www.vdb.org/node/1691

An important collective of political filmmakers.  The group became Third World 
Newsreel.
Newsreel Films
http://www.newsreel.us/


Regarding MOVE:
A 1978, portapak shot, B&W video entitled  The August 8, 1978 Confrontation is 
raw and quite powerful.
The piece captures the essences of that time, that situation, & those political 
tensions with the very particular qualities of image and moment that street 
portapak video could produce.
You can see much of it on Utube.  The folks at MOVE will sell you a copy for a 
modest cost.

http://www.onamove.com/
http://www.archive.org/details/MOVE__DVD


On Feb 13, 2012, at 8:56 PM, ev petrol wrote:
Hey folks
a friend of mine is looking for films about civil rights issues in the US - 
historical or contemporary (eg: the prison industrial system, the school to 
prison pipeline, the justice system, death row, police brutality &c &c) - for a 
series of screenings in New Orleans
any ideas?
cheers Moira

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Re: [Frameworks] Wtd: Regular 8mm Guillotine splicer

[Tom Whiteside]

Wouldn't a 16mm guillotine splicer work for Regular 8? You might want to use a 
narrower piece of tape, but the perfs are the same. Oh wait a minute, is the 
frame line in a different location as regards to perfs?

- Tom

-Original Message-
From: frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com 
[mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of Rick Prelinger
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 8:36 PM
To: Experimental Film Discussion List
Subject: [Frameworks] Wtd: Regular 8mm Guillotine splicer

If anyone has one of these for sale, I would be delighted to hear from you.

Thanks,
Rick
-- 

Rick Prelinger
Prelinger Archiveshttp://www.prelinger.com
P.O. Box 590622, San Francisco, Calif. 94159-0622 USA
foot...@panix.com
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Re: [Frameworks] Wall Paint for Film/Video Projection

[Tom Whiteside]

Flat white ceiling paint works well, it is usually a bit brighter than wall 
paint. You do not want glossy.  Do several coats. There is some kind of 
"screen" paint but I understand it is expensive.


-  Tom

From: frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com 
[mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of Douglas Urbank
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 1:49 PM
To: frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com
Subject: [Frameworks] Wall Paint for Film/Video Projection

Hello,

Would anyone recommend a special wall paint for film and video projection?  Is 
there a special paint that's noticeably better than regular interior paint?  It 
would be for a movable projection wall for a small theater group space.

Thank you!

Douglas Urbank
300 Summer Street, Unit 13
Boston, Massachusetts 02210-1113
617-542-0323

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Re: [Frameworks] repairing broken film

[Tom Whiteside]

How long is it? You might be able to repair with splicing tape, but if it's 
long at all you can probably only get by with tape on one side, and there is no 
guarantee it will work. When you project it might rip even more. If you really 
need it you will probably have to re-photograph, and unless you can touch it up 
it will always look like film with a diagonal tear.
A lot of damaged film that won't run on a projector can be transferred, 
depending on the type of transfer. Good luck.

-Original Message-
From: frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com 
[mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of Jay Hudson
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2012 10:03 PM
To: frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com
Subject: [Frameworks] repairing broken film

I have a film that was ripped diagonally that I want to repair.
Unfortunately, I feel it is important that I keep the frames in the
tear.  It is polyester.  How would I repair it?  thanks in advance.
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Re: [Frameworks] Recipe for removing stickers from film

[Tom Whiteside]

Film cleaner, you can find it at camera stores.

-Original Message-
From: frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com 
[mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of Matt Soar
Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 10:58 AM
To: frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com
Subject: [Frameworks] Recipe for removing stickers from film

Hi folks,

Does anyone have a good (clean, reliable, non-corrosive) method for removing 
adhesive stickers from the head of a 35mm film? Lighter fluid, maybe?

Thanks,

Matt
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Re: [Frameworks] non-toxic film cleaner?

[Tom Whiteside]

I don't know about non-toxic. I have used both FilmRenew and VitaFilm with good 
results, wearing rubber gloves and using the liquid on clean cotton cloth 
between rewinds. I don't think they are super toxic, but you need decent 
ventilation and you do want to avoid contact with skin. Depending on the 
condition of the film you may need to run it through more than once.  Most of 
my retired t-shirts eventually end up cleaning film.

Shrunken or brittle film benefits from soaking in this stuff - put it in a 
metal can, pour the liquid over it and let it sit 24 hours, then drain the 
liquid off but leave the soaked film in a sealed can for a few months. 
Difficult to predict exactly how the film will react, I've had failure as well 
as success.

In general, cleaning film by hand takes a lot of time and patience.


-  Tom

From: frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com 
[mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of Marcelle Pecot
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 9:36 PM
To: frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com
Subject: [Frameworks] non-toxic film cleaner?

Any suggestions for cleaning old 16mm film?


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Re: [Frameworks] caffenol processing with 16mm

[Tom Whiteside]

When it comes to art, don't let anything hold you back - have it imported!


>but I think washing soda may be hard to find in southern california.


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Re: [Frameworks] 35mm film will be dead by 2015 and News Corp

[Tom Whiteside]

In the future we will see more programs listed as "projected through celluloid 
on authentic period instruments" just as we now see for some performances of 
Baroque music. When Walter Carlos released "Switched-On Bach," introducing a 
new electronic sound to 250 year old music, other musicians did not throw away 
their viol de gambas (or cellos, or pianos, on which we had "inauthentically" 
been playing Bach for years) just because the Moog was the new thing. Without a 
doubt, some of them considered the new sound to be horrendous, objectionable, 
and a scandal (perhaps they knew that JS Bach preferred the simpler sound of a 
Fender Rhodes) but perhaps they also realized that their "authentic" methods 
(cat gut instead of steel, for one thing) would become more popular once again. 
Some audiences would want to hear the music as it was originally performed. 
Personally I love the Moog, but do prefer to hear Bach performed by ensembles, 
each playing their own instruments. 

Changes will come and much will be lost, no doubt. I am holding onto my 16mm 
projectors, even the dead ones as I know they will be needed for parts in years 
to come. And although we all spend time in this digital age trying to keep 
files up to date (OMG, that is two years old!!) and migrating media so we can 
still use it, it is calming and refreshing to me that 80 year old film prints 
still run smoothly through my projectors.

How come no one on this list serve is celebrating the fact that second-hand 
35mm projectors are going to be so unbelievably cheap in the next few years?  

- Tom


-Original Message-
From: frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com 
[mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of Fred Camper
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 8:20 PM
To: Experimental Film Discussion List
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] 35mm film will be dead by 2015 and News Corp

Programmers I know say that it is harder and harder to rent 35mm  
prints. Studios try to offer blu-ray, or, better, 4 K files on hard  
drives. Sometimes they don't make prints anymore. And archives, as a  
result, are now overwhelmed with requests for prints, and are cutting  
back and limiting how often they will send their prints out.

Sadly, we should probably be thinking about whether there are  
improvements to 4K and digital projection systems that will get us  
closer to the look of films that may soon not be available on film, or  
are already unavailable.

Fred Camper
Chicago

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Re: [Frameworks] Travelogues

[Tom Whiteside]

Gordon Ball's film "Do Poznania" fits the bill, about his short time in Poland. 
Available on DVD "Films by Gordon Ball."

-  Tom

From: frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com 
[mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of karl karla klander
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 3:47 AM
To: frameworks@jonasmekasfilms.com
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Travelogues


a beautiful early example for experimental travelogue would be Oskar 
Fischingers "Walking from Munich to Berlin/München-Berlin Wanderung 
Filmtagebuch" from 1927. it is available on the "oskar fischinger: ten films" 
dvd

k.


> On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 9:41 AM, Adam R. Levine  wrote:
>
> > Hello you,
> >
> > I am trying to pull together a list of experimental films that either fall
> > directly under the category of "travelogue" or bear witness to travel and
> > distance from a point of origin on the part of the filmmaker. These would
> > not be so much ethnographic works which are part of a sustained cultural
> > exchange, but films made as a result of the filmmaker "passing through" and
> > acknowledging the looming spectre/problem/pleasure of "the tourist film".
> > Warren Sonbert, perhaps John Smith's "The Hotel Diaries"? I'm sure there
> > are others...but can you name them?
> >
> > Thanks/Grazie/Kiitos!
> >
> > ARL
> >
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> >
> >
>

>
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Re: [Frameworks] I can´t sleep

[Tom Whiteside]

Alan Berliner made a doc about his insomnia, Wide Awake I believe it is. I 
haven't seen it, but he's one of the few filmmakers who has made really good 
documentaries AND really good experimental films. Rudy Burckhardt had a nice 
little poetry film In Bed. Nightcats and the Sexual Meditations by Brakhage.

On a practical note, if you can't sleep, turn on the tv. It will do it for you.

- Tom

-Original Message-
From: frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com 
[mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of Paul Krimmer
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2011 9:36 AM
To: Experimental Film Discussion List
Subject: [Frameworks] I can´t sleep

Hey. im programming my month's schedule called "i can't sleep". Just 
wanted to know some films which come to your mind about night, walkings, 
silent ones and of course and best radical work. thanks for your 
head-sharing.

best,
   paul
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[Frameworks] square corners

[Tom Whiteside]

Rob's brilliant question raises another point that has long interested me  - 
why don't we make/look at circular images? Lenses have always created circular 
images, but early photography put square corners on images (cut into the 
circles) in order to, one thinks, mimic the conventions of canvas stretched 
over frames. Yes there are a few round paintings and other shapes (walls of 
caves for starters), but the long history of image making has been all about 
arranging images inside the corners.


-  Tom

What frame ratio do people think is best for a painting and should it be 
cropped later to fit the ready-made picture-frame?

Rob


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Re: [Frameworks] thought this might generate an interesting discussion

[Tom Whiteside]

Well, that is to say that "we" can reframe when editing by reframing within the 
frame that has been shot. In the field, if you didn't get the girl in the funny 
hat all the way at the left end of the line (out of frame) and you now have a 
way to reframe so as to include her in the shot I'll be very impressed with 
your technology.

It's like carpentry - you can cut that piece of wood three times and it's still 
too short.

- Tom "does not quite believe that technology will save us" Whiteside


>> Wonder what is next? Framing?

  > we already can reframe when editing


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Re: [Frameworks] 16:9 vs 4:3

[Tom Whiteside]

Of course I meant to say "early 20th century" (and late 19th)  We actually 
don't have a record of how fast people walked early 19th century...


-  Tom

- did you know that in the early 19th century people walked down the street 
really really fast



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Re: [Frameworks] 16:9 vs 4:3

[Tom Whiteside]

There is also the broader idea, that of an innate dislike of the older 
technology, no matter what. ("I do not want to look at that. It is not 
up-to-date, it is not the latest thing. I am up-to-date, I deserve better.") 
Once the talkies got going, silent films were shunned and ridiculed; at a 
certain point mainstream movies simply could not be black-and-white, they had 
to be color.  Years pass and there is more acceptance of "the way things were 
back then," but around the time of the shift the culture tends to push the old 
thing away as it embraces the new.

Personally, I've always been years behind, scooping up second hand technology 
and enjoying its relatively low cost. I think this is true of many people 
throughout the history of experimental film.

It's another topic altogether, but what continues to amaze me is the cultural 
tolerance for motion pictures RUN AT THE WRONG SPEED. All kinds of 
documentaries run any kind of silent footage TOO FAST - did you know that in 
the early 19th century people walked down the street really really fast all the 
time? The proof is on the screen, often, and to me it always looks like lazy 
sloppy filmmaking. It is a convention based in some part on the phenomenon 
described above, and around the time when film speed changed from 18fps to 
24fps this would have been somewhat understandable. But in this day and age 
when material can be easily run at any speed, why don't people use the material 
at something that looks like NATURAL SPEED? If you were adding a soundtrack in 
post-production and using records, and someone played the 33rpm record at 
45rpm, wouldn't that mistake be noticed and corrected? Why don't fps get the 
same respect?


-  Tom

From: frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com 
[mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of T. Siddle
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 11:19 AM
To: Experimental Film Discussion List
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] 16:9 vs 4:3

My guess would be that they have gotten used to watching video on monitors/tvs 
that are 16:9 and that they dislike 4:3 because it either doesn't fit the 
screen (when watched in full screen mode) or has to be warped/cut to fit. They 
also likely associate 4:3 with older, lower resolution video.

- Ts.
On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 5:25 AM, Kevin Timmins 
mailto:on-on...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
I'm making a video for a uk bike trials video and put up a poll for the public 
to decide what ratio they want their video filming in. The youth of today hates 
4:3! Really hates it for no reason. That is they say things like "4:3 is 
aweful" but with no explanation as to why? What's going on here?

Kev

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Re: [Frameworks] Article: The Last film camera

[Tom Whiteside]

It's an interesting article, and thanks for posting. However, I must ask - how 
many people on Frameworks EVER bought a new Panavision or Aaton camera? Does it 
really make any difference to us if these cameras are no longer manufactured? 
The experimental film community has worked primarily with second hand 
equipment, almost exclusively in what is known as "sub-standard" formats, since 
mid-20th century. I drive a Honda, and if Maserati stopped producing cars today 
it really would not affect my ability to get around town.

The ongoing obsession with hand-wringing over film obsolescence (inevitable, 
but not immediate) seems misguided to me, simply a waste of energy. If you look 
into the future, can you see that you will still have food to eat and water to 
drink? I loved Kodachrome and it is a pity that I can no longer process the few 
rolls I recently found in the bottom of a box in my studio, but that is not 
going to stop me from making motion pictures.


-  Tom Whiteside   Durham, NC

From: frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com 
[mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of Lars Fuchs
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2011 11:55 AM
To: Experimental Film Discussion List
Subject: [Frameworks] Article: The Last film camera

This isn't good news.

http://magazine.creativecow.net/article/film-fading-to-black

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Re: [Frameworks] Kodak filing for bankruptcy?

[Tom Whiteside]

I knew it was a mistake when they discontinued Kodachrome!


-Original Message-
From: frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com 
[mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of Robert Schaller
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 5:43 PM
To: Experimental Film Discussion List
Subject: [Frameworks] Kodak filing for bankruptcy?

Does anyone know anything about this?

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/09/30/kodak-hires-lawyers-weighs-bankruptcy
-filing/?hp


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Re: [Frameworks] Moving to San Francisco

[Tom Whiteside]

Durham, North Carolina is a small city whose gritty history (that we produced 
25% of the world's cigarettes in the 1930's is but one highlight of our fabled 
past) is currently being burnished to a nice bronze patina by a wide variety of 
folks belonging to the creative class. Downtown studio space is incredibly 
cheap by big city standards and although many restaurants, music clubs, 
breweries and the like have opened in the past decade there is still plenty of 
empty space.  One thing to be said about smaller cities such as Durham - you 
are free to do as you please. I have been here 20 years, and find that there is 
more peer support than peer pressure. There is no "scene" to speak of, and in a 
very real way, if someone tried to impose one it would be shouted down. Plenty 
of artists, plenty of space, plenty of freedom.

I have always enjoyed visiting San Francisco and New York, and in the 70's when 
I got started in film I had to do so in order to see experimental work. But no 
way could I afford to live in those cities now, much less have a studio, as I 
can rather easily afford here in Bull City.


-  Tom



From: frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com 
[mailto:frameworks-boun...@jonasmekasfilms.com] On Behalf Of matt's frameworks 
address
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 2:50 PM
To: Experimental Film Discussion List
Subject: Re: [Frameworks] Moving to San Francisco

"This is just speculation on my part, but it's been widely reported that the 
suburbs are now increasingly the places where lower income folks can afford to 
live and not in the urban core: thus recent immigrants, people arriving from 
other regions of the US, the working class, and minorities of various kinds are 
entering the collar communities.  The characteristic "mix" of art bohemia 
scenes might now be developing in the burbs?  Can anyone report evidence of 
this in the US?  Elsewhere?"


I think the burbs of the big cities in the US are definitely drawing immigrants 
and working class folks, but I think the young artists of today are more likely 
to move to cities that are emerging as new 'bohemian scenes' than settle for 
the burbs.  Portland is certainly a perfect example of that, and I think 
Philadelphia, Baltimore, Pittsburgh fit that bill as well.   I don't know how 
artists make it in cities like New York or San Francisco- I suppose people have 
alternate forms of income, as the cost of living in those places is insane.

-matt




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