Re: FreeBSD has a politics problem

[Singh Sardar]

___
freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list
https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"

Re: FreeBSD has a politics problem

[Ralf Mardorf via freebsd-chat]

On Thu, 8 Mar 2018 14:31:28 -0500, Geheimnisse wrote:
>So, FreeBSD may have a politics problem - an alt-right politics
>problem. Manchildren who cry any time something happens that isn't
>right-wing. They don't want "politics out of FreeBSD" regarding the
>CoC, they want a CoC that aligns with their alt-right values.
>
>In conclusion, the alt-right can shut the hell up and move on to their
>next target. Leave FreeBSD alone, you neckbeard creeps.

Those world conspiracy fantasis are touching
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law , something that much,
much, much, much, much more often happens on computer related mailing
lists than racism, misogyny, xenophobia etc. apears, but
Godwin's law usually is uesed regarding technically decisions, a
developer e.g. is in favour of a hamburger button over a menubar or
vice versa and a user compares this with the Holocaust.

-- 
Lived solidarity:
https://ixquick-proxy.com/do/spg/show_picture.pl?l=english=1=https%3A%2F%2Fi.ytimg.com%2Fvi%2F-4MJm6MM8W8%2Fmaxresdefault.jpg=8d7a534b496ef1f5d77206bdc4f1071e
___
freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list
https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"

Re: FreeBSD has a politics problem

[Tom Limoncelli]

Sing it, Geheimnisse!


Tom


On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 9:31 PM Geheimnisse 
wrote:

> I really cannot wait until all of the people flipping their shit about the
> new CoC go back to not tending to their neck hair and tipping their
> fedoras. Oh, excuse me, trilby hats or whatever they may be.
>
> Seriously, the new CoC is the opposite of news. Unless you plan to harrass
> others online, it will not affect you. Go back to doing whatever it is you
> were doing before you went on this crusade. Nobody cares aside from a
> handful of neckbeards, and nobody will care in a couple of weeks because it
> won't affect anything.
>
> Mailed under an a pseudonym account because these alt-right types like to
> stalk and harrass people.
> ___
> freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list
> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat
> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
>
-- 
Sent from Gmail Mobile. Autocorrect is my co-author.
___
freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list
https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"

RE: FreeBSD has a politics problem

[Paige Thompson]

Hey,

I just gotta say I'm getting a kick out of watching you all have this 
conversation. This is really happening. LOL

Keep up the good work 

-Paige


-Original Message-
From: owner-freebsd-c...@freebsd.org <owner-freebsd-c...@freebsd.org> On Behalf 
Of Lazlo Falconi
Sent: Tuesday, March 6, 2018 11:42 AM
To: Jeff Roberson <jrober...@jroberson.net>
Cc: Franco Fichtner <fra...@lastsummer.de>; Vladimir Botka <vbo...@gmail.com>; 
freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; timmcgraw...@protonmail.com
Subject: Re: FreeBSD has a politics problem

>It can be challenging to determine who is a legitimate part of the
community and who is an outside interloper capitalizing on a political moment I 
think this is the heart of the issue. It's interesting how there was all this 
discussion about the CoC heading in this direction all over the mailing lists, 
on twitter, etc, and only now that it's been imposed, are all these opponents 
coming out of the woodwork saying they were never asked.

We get all these comments about how the new CoC encourages feminism
(protip: anyone who instantly bristles at the term probably lack an 
understanding of it) and enforces a bunch of, in their opinions, non-issues. 
But they were issues. That's why the CoC had to change.

As far as I can tell, the new CoC only discourages the kinds of speech that 
never had any business being in any discussion of FreeBSD, or any technical 
project, in the first place. It's kind of a shame we got caught up this whole 
discussion, but I guess it goes to show that it was never about ethics in games 
journalism.
___
freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list
https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
___
freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list
https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"

Re: FreeBSD has a politics problem

[Geheimnisse]

Nope, Not a troll. Just protecting myself from alt-right creeps.

Let's see, where to begin? Unironically using the term "cuck" as in "CuckBSD". 
Check. Unironically using the term "red pill". Check.

Both of which are exclusively part of the alt-right lexicon.

So, FreeBSD may have a politics problem - an alt-right politics problem. 
Manchildren who cry any time something happens that isn't right-wing. They 
don't want "politics out of FreeBSD" regarding the CoC, they want a CoC that 
aligns with their alt-right values.

In conclusion, the alt-right can shut the hell up and move on to their next 
target. Leave FreeBSD alone, you neckbeard creeps.
___
freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list
https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"

Re: FreeBSD has a politics problem

[Fiorello G. Baumgartner via freebsd-chat]

> I really cannot wait until all of the people flipping their shit about the 
> new CoC go back to not tending to their neck hair and tipping their fedoras. 
> Oh, excuse me, trilby hats or whatever they may be.
> 
>  Nobody cares aside from a handful of neckbeards, and nobody will care in 
> a couple of weeks because it won't affect anything.

Your comments should run afoul of *any* reasonable CoC.  They are pure contempt 
of a strawman and have no substance.  They have no place here.

- Fiorello

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On March 7, 2018 8:31 PM, Geheimnisse  wrote:

> I really cannot wait until all of the people flipping their shit about the 
> new CoC go back to not tending to their neck hair and tipping their fedoras. 
> Oh, excuse me, trilby hats or whatever they may be.
> 
> Seriously, the new CoC is the opposite of news. Unless you plan to harrass 
> others online, it will not affect you. Go back to doing whatever it is you 
> were doing before you went on this crusade. Nobody cares aside from a handful 
> of neckbeards, and nobody will care in a couple of weeks because it won't 
> affect anything.
> 
> Mailed under an a pseudonym account because these alt-right types like to 
> stalk and harrass people.
> 
> freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list
> 
> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat
> 
> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"


___
freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list
https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"

Re: FreeBSD has a politics problem

[Fiorello G. Baumgartner via freebsd-chat]

> Jesus Christ, can you stop being such a complete ft. People like you are 
> causing a mockery of FreeBSD, which is now getting called "CuckBSD" by the 
> very people you want to be using this OS.

You post is so over the top that I can't even tell if you're really this 
terrible or just a classical troll play-acting someone like that to start a 
flame war.  In any case, you are causing nothing but damage.

Go away,
- Fiorello

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐

On March 8, 2018 9:34 AM, Geheimnisse <geheimnisse@gmail.com> wrote:

> Jesus Christ, can you stop being such a complete faggot. People like you are 
> causing a mockery of FreeBSD, which is now getting called "CuckBSD" by the 
> very people you want to be using this OS. It's fucking embarrassing and has 
> all but signaled to a majority of users that there is a preference for 
> progressive decay over technical progress. Do you realize shit like does 
> nothing but red pill normal, accepting individuals who truly just care about 
> technical merit? You care creating the very enemies you seek. And you will 
> ultimately lose. But please, keep insulting us.
> 
> Oh, mailed under your pseudonym account because we alt-right types like to 
> stalk and harrass people.
> 
> On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 8:31 PM, Geheimnisse geheimnisse@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> > Received: from dunkelheit (\[23.226.128.30\])
> > 
> > From: Geheimnisse geheimnisse@gmail.com
> > 
> > Subject: Re: FreeBSD has a politics problem
> > 
> > Message-ID: <@dunkelheit>
> > 
> > References: <@lonesome.com> ><@fire.js.berklix.net>
> > 
> > In-Reply-To: <@fire.js.berklix.net>
> > 
> > User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.3 (2018-01-21)
> 
> > I really cannot wait until all of the people flipping their shit about the 
> > new CoC go back to not tending to their neck hair and tipping their 
> > fedoras. Oh, excuse me, trilby hats or whatever they may be.
> > 
> > Seriously, the new CoC is the opposite of news. Unless you plan to harrass 
> > others online, it will not affect you. Go back to doing whatever it is you 
> > were doing before you went on this crusade. Nobody cares aside from a 
> > handful of neckbeards, and nobody will care in a couple of weeks because it 
> > won't affect anything.
> > 
> > Mailed under an a pseudonym account because these alt-right types like to 
> > stalk and harrass people.
> > 
> > freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list
> > 
> > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat
> > 
> > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
> 
> freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list
> 
> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat
> 
> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"


___
freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list
https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"

Re: FreeBSD has a politics problem

[Sander Vesik]

> Jesus Christ, can you stop being such a complete faggot. People like you
> are causing a mockery of FreeBSD, which is now getting called "CuckBSD" by
> the very people you want to be using this OS


Well, no, I am fairly certain you are wrong on this part.
___
freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list
https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"

Re: FreeBSD has a politics problem

[Geheimnisse]

Jesus Christ, can you stop being such a complete faggot. People like you are 
causing a mockery of FreeBSD, which is now getting called "CuckBSD" by the very 
people you want to be using this OS. It's fucking embarrassing and has all but 
signaled to a majority of users that there is a preference for progressive 
decay over technical progress. Do you realize shit like does nothing but red 
pill normal, accepting individuals who truly just care about technical merit? 
You care creating the very enemies you seek. And you will ultimately lose. But 
please, keep insulting us.

Oh, mailed under your pseudonym account because we alt-right types like to 
stalk and harrass people.

On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 8:31 PM, Geheimnisse <geheimnisse@gmail.com> wrote:

>Received: from dunkelheit ([23.226.128.30])
>From: Geheimnisse <geheimnisse....@gmail.com>
>Subject: Re: FreeBSD has a politics problem
>Message-ID: <@dunkelheit>
>References: <@lonesome.com> ><@fire.js.berklix.net>
>In-Reply-To: <@fire.js.berklix.net>
>User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.3 (2018-01-21)

>I really cannot wait until all of the people flipping their shit about the new 
>CoC go back to not tending to their neck hair and tipping their fedoras. Oh, 
>excuse me, trilby hats or whatever they may be.
>Seriously, the new CoC is the opposite of news. Unless you plan to harrass 
>others online, it will not affect you. Go back to doing whatever it is you 
>were doing before you went on this crusade. Nobody cares aside from a handful 
>of neckbeards, and nobody will care in a couple of weeks because it won't 
>affect anything.
>Mailed under an a pseudonym account because these alt-right types like to 
>stalk and harrass people.
>   ___
>   freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list
>   https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat
>   To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
___
freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list
https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"

Re: FreeBSD has a politics problem

[Geheimnisse]

I really cannot wait until all of the people flipping their shit about the new 
CoC go back to not tending to their neck hair and tipping their fedoras. Oh, 
excuse me, trilby hats or whatever they may be.

Seriously, the new CoC is the opposite of news. Unless you plan to harrass 
others online, it will not affect you. Go back to doing whatever it is you were 
doing before you went on this crusade. Nobody cares aside from a handful of 
neckbeards, and nobody will care in a couple of weeks because it won't affect 
anything.

Mailed under an a pseudonym account because these alt-right types like to stalk 
and harrass people.
___
freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list
https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"

Re: FreeBSD has a politics problem

[Lazlo Falconi]

>It can be challenging to determine who is a legitimate part of the
community and who is an outside interloper capitalizing on a political
moment
I think this is the heart of the issue. It's interesting how there was all
this discussion about the CoC heading in this direction all over the
mailing lists, on twitter, etc, and only now that it's been imposed, are
all these opponents coming out of the woodwork saying they were never asked.

We get all these comments about how the new CoC encourages feminism
(protip: anyone who instantly bristles at the term probably lack an
understanding of it) and enforces a bunch of, in their opinions,
non-issues. But they were issues. That's why the CoC had to change.

As far as I can tell, the new CoC only discourages the kinds of speech that
never had any business being in any discussion of FreeBSD, or any technical
project, in the first place. It's kind of a shame we got caught up this
whole discussion, but I guess it goes to show that it was never about
ethics in games journalism.
___
freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list
https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"

Re: FreeBSD has a politics problem

[Jeff Roberson]

On Mon, 5 Mar 2018, Vladimir Botka wrote:


Hi,

On Mon, 5 Mar 2018 07:40:48 +0100
Franco Fichtner  wrote:


On 4. Mar 2018, at 10:02 PM, Jeff Roberson  wrote:
I would urge everyone to be calm and patient.  This is an important dialog and 
it's bound to be bumpy.  I also strongly urge people to refrain from discussing 
it further on technical lists where it is counter productive and unwelcome.



So you are saying "shut up" and be patient like we've never been patient in
the last couple of years?  That's bold, but unfortunately also consistent MO.
Cheers,
Franco


He said you should refrain from discussing it on technical lists. You might
want to consider freebsd-chat.


Thank you.  Chat seems like an ok list for this until we're told otherwise 
by administrators.  I am not personally subscribed to -chat so please keep 
me in the cc if you wish to keep hearing from me.  I urge again that we 
refrain from inflammatory language and hyperbole.


I'm sorry that people are frustrated.  I not infrequently find the project 
frustrating.  My urge for patience is because this dialog is very fresh 
and still being worked out.  Whatever else you have been patient for we 
have only had the new coc for less than a month.  I think there are some 
misconceptions about how the project is run and what the core team does 
that might help clear up some confusion.


Firstly, the project is governed by its members.  These are people with a 
vested interest who have contributed to the project.  We are not governed 
by the users.  The conversation is challenging enough with nearly 400 
participants.  I assure you that whatever your view point is, it is likely 
already represented in that 400.  If you would like to be part of the 
conversation I urge you to work on obtaining a commit bit.  I will also 
assure you that various project members are in touch with the community 
via reddit, slashdot, freebsd forums, freebsd mailing lists, twitter, etc. 
It can be challenging to determine who is a legitimate part of the 
community and who is an outside interloper capitalizing on a political 
moment, for this reason among many, we are self-governing.


Core is an administrative group elected from volunteers.  It is not their 
responsibility to set priorities for technical development, accept 
patches, or even strictly speaking be community liaisons.  We might hope 
that they take on some of these mantles of their own volition but that is 
up to the individual.  Their charter is more or less administrative work, 
governance.


Regarding patches, I don't know what subsystem they involve or if there is 
an active maintainer or what steps you've taken.  It is all frustratingly 
ad-hoc at times as it is a volunteer effort and it's up to individuals to 
take up these responsibilities.  I again urge everyone who can contribute 
and maintain a standard of civil discussion to seek a commit bit. 
Contribution to FreeBSD can be both personally and professionally 
rewarding.


Regards,
Jeff



-vlado


___
freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list
https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"