Re: Our routed - Vern says it's old and buggy.
Garrett Wollman speaks the truth when he says: I can't quite figure why they stuck the word open in there, because it couldn't possibly be more open than RIP. Because a previous link-state (aka shortest-path-first) routing protocol had been deployed which was not. I can't believe the amount of FUD on this issue. Read what Garrett says above because it is the reason for the O in OSPF. OSPF was developed by the IETF 10 years ago in response to the proprietary link-state routing protocol of a large router vender. John To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
RE: Our routed - Vern says it's old and buggy.
Garrett Wollman speaks the truth when he says: I can't quite figure why they stuck the word open in there, because it couldn't possibly be more open than RIP. Because a previous link-state (aka shortest-path-first) routing protocol had been deployed which was not. If you're referring to IGRP, IGRP (or EIGRP for that matter) is not link-state/SPF/Dijkstra, but rather a distance vector algorithm (DUAL). The only other commonly used SPF algorithm is IS-IS. Cheers, Chris -- BellSouth Corporation, Advanced Data Services, Sr. Network Architect c...@adsu.bellsouth.com -wk, c...@gnu.org -hm Affiliation given for identification, not representation. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Our routed - Vern says it's old and buggy.
On Wed, 28 Apr 1999, Chuck Robey wrote: On Wed, 28 Apr 1999, Matthew Dillon wrote: :Matthew Dillon dil...@apollo.backplane.com writes: I can't quite figure why they stuck the word open in there, because it couldn't possibly be more open than RIP. Probably beqause they stuck OPEN on _everything_ for a while. It drowe me nuts:) /Johan OSPF has been around for a long time. But RIP is older, and was the first routing scheme. -Matt Matthew Dillon dil...@backplane.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message +--- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chu...@picnic.mat.net | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). +--- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Our routed - Vern says it's old and buggy.
On 28-Apr-99 Kris Kennaway wrote: On Tue, 27 Apr 1999, Garrett Wollman wrote: Most importantly: - Recent values of GateD are distributed under a very unfriendly license. There's also zebra, in ports (as someone pointed out on -net the other day),which seems to be GPL'ed. I haven't tried either of the two except to poke around briefly in the code.. Well, I can tell you this: the source code last time I was able to check it (which was about a week, week and a half ago) compiles cleanly under 2.2.8-4.x (where else did ye think those mentions on the site came from? ;) and also works as far as I have been able to test it. (People with better test environments than mine are MORE THAN WELCOME to test the routing code!) Thankfully I got Andreas Klemm on the list as well to test the source and we have been very active in reporting back bugs and submitting patches and Kunihiro-san has been very flexible with releasing snapshots for the ports as well as maintaining a ports directory within the total package for ease of use within FreeBSD. So for a Linux dude he has a very strong sympathy for FreeBSD =) --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Wervenasmodai(at)wxs.nl The FreeBSD Programmer's Documentation Project Network/Security Specialist http://home.wxs.nl/~asmodai *BSD: Powered by Knowledge Know-how http://www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Our routed - Vern says it's old and buggy.
On Wed, 28 Apr 1999, Chuck Robey wrote: On Wed, 28 Apr 1999, Matthew Dillon wrote: :Matthew Dillon dil...@apollo.backplane.com writes: : : Given the choice between OSPF and RIP1/2, OSPF is far superior : even on 'simple' networks. It is effectively an open protocol, : like BGP. : :Matt, can you clarify what you mean by open here? I know it's :what the O in OSPF stands for, but in what way are OSPF and :BGP more open than RIP? : :Jim Shankland :NLynx Systems, Inc. You can download the protocol spec without putting forth cash. I haven't looked at it for a long time so I don't have a URL handy. And you didn't know that the RIP spec is even older, and was publicly available via an RFC (the same as OSPF?) I can't quite figure why they stuck the word open in there, because it couldn't possibly be more open than RIP. Because OSPF stands for 'Open Shortest Path First.' It has nothing to do with licensing. :-) Doug White Internet: dwh...@resnet.uoregon.edu| FreeBSD: The Power to Serve http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dwhite| www.freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Our routed - Vern says it's old and buggy.
Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: Um, can we get back to the subject at hand PLEASE? Who among you is going to import the new routed? Garrett doesn't have testing facilities for RIP, so it has to be someone else. Since Chuck also appears to have boundless energy for this topic, might he be willing? :-) I could do it? :-) M -- Mark Murray Join the anti-SPAM movement: http://www.cauce.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Our routed - Vern says it's old and buggy.
Sold, to the man in the long black coat! :) Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: Um, can we get back to the subject at hand PLEASE? Who among you is going to import the new routed? Garrett doesn't have testing facilities for RIP, so it has to be someone else. Since Chuck also appears to have boundless energy for this topic, might he be willing? :-) I could do it? :-) M -- Mark Murray Join the anti-SPAM movement: http://www.cauce.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Our routed - Vern says it's old and buggy.
On Tue, 27 Apr 1999, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: Um, can we get back to the subject at hand PLEASE? Who among you is going to import the new routed? Garrett doesn't have testing facilities for RIP, so it has to be someone else. Since Chuck also appears to have boundless energy for this topic, might he be willing? :-) It's likely I'll have time this weekend. Anyone got a URL? +--- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chu...@picnic.mat.net | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). +--- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Our routed - Vern says it's old and buggy.
GateD is *very* unfriendly. It is user-unfriendly and it is OSS-unfriendly. ... ... Also, the older, more OSS friendly versions of gated have too many bugs to be useable as a base. The OSPF implementation in it wasn't really fixed until late last year. I can vouch for that... again, and again, and again... :) -dpg To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Our routed - Vern says it's old and buggy.
Matthew Dillon dil...@apollo.backplane.com writes: Given the choice between OSPF and RIP1/2, OSPF is far superior even on 'simple' networks. It is effectively an open protocol, like BGP. Matt, can you clarify what you mean by open here? I know it's what the O in OSPF stands for, but in what way are OSPF and BGP more open than RIP? Jim Shankland NLynx Systems, Inc. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Our routed - Vern says it's old and buggy.
:Matthew Dillon dil...@apollo.backplane.com writes: : : Given the choice between OSPF and RIP1/2, OSPF is far superior : even on 'simple' networks. It is effectively an open protocol, : like BGP. : :Matt, can you clarify what you mean by open here? I know it's :what the O in OSPF stands for, but in what way are OSPF and :BGP more open than RIP? : :Jim Shankland :NLynx Systems, Inc. You can download the protocol spec without putting forth cash. I haven't looked at it for a long time so I don't have a URL handy. OSPF has been around for a long time. -Matt Matthew Dillon dil...@backplane.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Our routed - Vern says it's old and buggy.
On Wed, 28 Apr 1999, Matthew Dillon wrote: :Matthew Dillon dil...@apollo.backplane.com writes: : : Given the choice between OSPF and RIP1/2, OSPF is far superior : even on 'simple' networks. It is effectively an open protocol, : like BGP. : :Matt, can you clarify what you mean by open here? I know it's :what the O in OSPF stands for, but in what way are OSPF and :BGP more open than RIP? : :Jim Shankland :NLynx Systems, Inc. You can download the protocol spec without putting forth cash. I haven't looked at it for a long time so I don't have a URL handy. And you didn't know that the RIP spec is even older, and was publicly available via an RFC (the same as OSPF?) I can't quite figure why they stuck the word open in there, because it couldn't possibly be more open than RIP. OSPF has been around for a long time. But RIP is older, and was the first routing scheme. -Matt Matthew Dillon dil...@backplane.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message +--- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chu...@picnic.mat.net | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). +--- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Our routed - Vern says it's old and buggy.
:couldn't possibly be more open than RIP. : : : OSPF has been around for a long time. : :But RIP is older, and was the first routing scheme. Which means nothing. RIP was designed for a time when networks were simple. It has no multipath capabilities, it can *barely* handle subnet masks, and it figures out when a route is dead by letting packets loop until their TTL runs out. Also, propogation of state loads the network in a non linear fashion and breaks down when you have a lot of nodes. It works, but it isn't fun. -Matt Matthew Dillon dil...@backplane.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Our routed - Vern says it's old and buggy.
I can't quite figure why they stuck the word open in there, because it couldn't possibly be more open than RIP. Probably because it was (at the time) in heavy competition with the OSI IS-IS routing protocol. Those standards were *not* openly available. (I believe they are now.) Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sth...@nethelp.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Our routed - Vern says it's old and buggy.
: I can't quite figure why they stuck the word open in there, because it : couldn't possibly be more open than RIP. : :Probably because it was (at the time) in heavy competition with the OSI :IS-IS routing protocol. Those standards were *not* openly available. (I :believe they are now.) : :Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sth...@nethelp.no I consider ISIS dead these days, though I'm sure there are people who still swear by it. -Matt Matthew Dillon dil...@backplane.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Our routed - Vern says it's old and buggy.
Umm ... OK, I thought you were saying that OSPF and BGP are open, whereas RIP v1 and v2 are not. In that context, I wasn't sure what you meant by open. If open means freely downloadable spec, then presumably all of the above are open. So never mind :-). Jim Shankland NLynx Systems, Inc. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Our routed - Vern says it's old and buggy.
On Wed, Apr 28, 1999 at 12:14:03PM -0700, Matthew Dillon wrote: :Probably because it was (at the time) in heavy competition with the OSI :IS-IS routing protocol. Those standards were *not* openly available. (I :believe they are now.) : :Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sth...@nethelp.no I consider ISIS dead these days, though I'm sure there are people who still swear by it. Yes, it has some very nice features over OSPF, like the ability to have hundreds of routers in the backbone area, a serious problem with OSPF when you have a rapid growing network, and it's impossible to know exactly where you need to grow new areas in 2 years time ... Yes, we run I-ISIS, and is very happy with it ... /Jesper -- Jesper Skriver (JS4261-RIPE), Network manager Tele Danmark DataNet, IP section (AS3292) One Unix to rule them all, One Resolver to find them, One IP to bring them all and in the zone to bind them. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Our routed - Vern says it's old and buggy.
In message 199904281914.maa08...@apollo.backplane.com, Matthew Dillon writes: : I can't quite figure why they stuck the word open in there, because it : couldn't possibly be more open than RIP. : :Probably because it was (at the time) in heavy competition with the OSI :IS-IS routing protocol. Those standards were *not* openly available. (I :believe they are now.) : :Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sth...@nethelp.no I consider ISIS dead these days, though I'm sure there are people who still swear by it. He, the Danish telecom is spending several millions DKR right now on a study for the future strategy of their CMIP based network management, so I'm sure somebody is running IS-IS somewhere too :-) -- Poul-Henning Kamp FreeBSD coreteam member p...@freebsd.org Real hackers run -current on their laptop. FreeBSD -- It will take a long time before progress goes too far! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Our routed - Vern says it's old and buggy.
I consider ISIS dead these days, though I'm sure there are people who still swear by it. As far as I know, there is *active* development of IS-IS these days, see for instance: IS-IS Optimized Multipath (ISIS-OMP), Tony Li, Curtis Villamizar, 02/23/1999, draft-ietf-isis-omp-01.txt,.ps IS-IS extensions for Traffic Engineering, Tony Li, Henk Smit, 02/02/1999, draft-ietf-isis-traffic-00.txt L1/L2 Optimal IS-IS Routing, Antoni Przygienda, Ajay Patel, 02/19/1999, draft-ietf-isis-l1l2-00.txt Domain-wide Prefix Distribution with Multi-Level IS-IS, Tony Li, 02/26/1999, draft-ietf-isis-domain-wide-00.txt Tony Li (Juniper, ex Cisco) is the head of this particular working group. Also, it's used by some rather big backbone providers. PS: No, this is not meant to start a flame war/discussion about the merits and demerits of various routing protocols. We use OSPF as an IGP ourselves. Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sth...@nethelp.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Our routed - Vern says it's old and buggy.
On Wed, 28 Apr 1999 sth...@nethelp.no wrote: I can't quite figure why they stuck the word open in there, because it couldn't possibly be more open than RIP. Probably because it was (at the time) in heavy competition with the OSI IS-IS routing protocol. Those standards were *not* openly available. (I believe they are now.) Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but OSPF stands for Open Shortest Path First, and thus Open in this context would have nothing to do with how free it is. -- Chris Dillon - cdil...@wolves.k12.mo.us - cdil...@inter-linc.net FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet. For Intel x86 and Alpha architectures (SPARC under development). ( http://www.freebsd.org ) One should admire Windows users. It takes a great deal of courage to trust Windows with your data. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Our routed - Vern says it's old and buggy.
: I can't quite figure why they stuck the word open in there, because it : couldn't possibly be more open than RIP. : :Probably because it was (at the time) in heavy competition with the OSI :IS-IS routing protocol. Those standards were *not* openly available. (I :believe they are now.) : :Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sth...@nethelp.no I consider ISIS dead these days, though I'm sure there are people who still swear by it. And some who swear *at* it still. :) Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Our routed - Vern says it's old and buggy.
On Wed, 28 Apr 1999 14:34:51 -0400 (EDT), Chuck Robey chu...@picnic.mat.net said: I can't quite figure why they stuck the word open in there, because it couldn't possibly be more open than RIP. Because a previous link-state (aka shortest-path-first) routing protocol had been deployed which was not. But RIP is older, and was the first routing scheme. Um, no. -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | O Siem / We are all family / O Siem / We're all the same woll...@lcs.mit.edu | O Siem / The fires of freedom Opinions not those of| Dance in the burning flame MIT, LCS, CRS, or NSA| - Susan Aglukark and Chad Irschick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Our routed - Vern says it's old and buggy.
:Umm ... OK, I thought you were saying that OSPF and BGP are open, :whereas RIP v1 and v2 are not. In that context, I wasn't sure what :you meant by open. If open means freely downloadable spec, then :presumably all of the above are open. So never mind :-). : :Jim Shankland :NLynx Systems, Inc. Huh? Where'd you get that idea? RIP is open. It just isn't particularly well suited to today's networks. -Matt Matthew Dillon dil...@backplane.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Our routed - Vern says it's old and buggy.
On Wed, 28 Apr 1999, Garrett Wollman wrote: On Wed, 28 Apr 1999 14:34:51 -0400 (EDT), Chuck Robey chu...@picnic.mat.net said: I can't quite figure why they stuck the word open in there, because it couldn't possibly be more open than RIP. Because a previous link-state (aka shortest-path-first) routing protocol had been deployed which was not. But RIP is older, and was the first routing scheme. Um, no. I don't know which was invented first, but I have a stack of books here that all aver that RIP was used on arpanet long before OSPF. The date on the rfc seems to back me up. Which one should I quote? +--- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chu...@picnic.mat.net | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). +--- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Our routed - Vern says it's old and buggy.
Open (according to Lenny Kleinrock) meant available; thus OSPF was supposed to mean Available, shortest path first. But, then again, these meanings get changed with time. Open is now a codeword for GNU/GPL/intellectual rights unencumbtered software. For OSPF, it was simply a description of an algorithm. The reason for OSPF and link state protocols in the first place was to correct problems that evovled from distance vector protocols, such as counting to infinity and to speed convergence when topologies change. Distance vector protocols are easy to implement and easy to understand and easy to configure (i.e. just turn it on.) While link-state doesn't have to be difficult and should be easy to turn on and route, the history of gated has caused a certain mental inertia and prejudice to using them. Heck, even my ex-advisor grimaces with fear when you mention link-state in her presence. -scooter I can't quite figure why they stuck the word open in there, because it couldn't possibly be more open than RIP. Probably because it was (at the time) in heavy competition with the OSI IS-IS routing protocol. Those standards were *not* openly available. (I believe they are now.) Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sth...@nethelp.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Our routed - Vern says it's old and buggy.
On Wed, Apr 28, 1999 at 02:34:51PM -0400, Chuck Robey wrote: And you didn't know that the RIP spec is even older, and was publicly available via an RFC (the same as OSPF?) But, of course, RIP sucks in many well-known ways. I can't quite figure why they stuck the word open in there, because it couldn't possibly be more open than RIP. I thought the open referred to the algorithm -- i.e. shortest open path first would be a synonym. I have no reason to think this, though. I could well be wrong, and probably am. OSPF has been around for a long time. But RIP is older, and was the first routing scheme. X.25 is older than IP, which clearly makes it better in all circumstances. Joe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Our routed - Vern says it's old and buggy.
On Wed, 28 Apr 1999, Matthew Dillon wrote: :couldn't possibly be more open than RIP. : : : OSPF has been around for a long time. : :But RIP is older, and was the first routing scheme. Which means nothing. RIP was designed for a time when networks were simple. It has no multipath capabilities, it can *barely* handle subnet masks, and it figures out when a route is dead by letting packets loop until their TTL runs out. Also, propogation of state loads the network in a non linear fashion and breaks down when you have a lot of nodes. It works, but it isn't fun. You misunderstand. I wasn't saying it was good, I said it was first, which it was. According to my reading (reading only, I haven't looked at code) the split horizon with poisoned reverse idea is supposed to let it learn about dead routes far quicker ... pure distance vector would do that. I don't know what's actually in routed yet, and academic books are often completely out to lunch, I'm finding. -Matt Matthew Dillon dil...@backplane.com +--- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chu...@picnic.mat.net | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). +--- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Our routed - Vern says it's old and buggy.
On Wed, 28 Apr 1999, Chris Dillon wrote: On Wed, 28 Apr 1999 sth...@nethelp.no wrote: I can't quite figure why they stuck the word open in there, because it couldn't possibly be more open than RIP. Probably because it was (at the time) in heavy competition with the OSI IS-IS routing protocol. Those standards were *not* openly available. (I believe they are now.) Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but OSPF stands for Open Shortest Path First, and thus Open in this context would have nothing to do with how free it is. I don't quite get that. It's a Djikstra calculation, using flooding to pass connection data ... does the SPF mean that it uses hop count only to figure path? Not any delay or traffic loading? -- Chris Dillon - cdil...@wolves.k12.mo.us - cdil...@inter-linc.net FreeBSD: The fastest and most stable server OS on the planet. For Intel x86 and Alpha architectures (SPARC under development). ( http://www.freebsd.org ) One should admire Windows users. It takes a great deal of courage to trust Windows with your data. +--- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chu...@picnic.mat.net | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). +--- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Our routed - Vern says it's old and buggy.
On Tue, 27 Apr 1999, Garrett Wollman wrote: On Mon, 26 Apr 1999 23:55:03 -0700, Jordan K. Hubbard j...@zippy.cdrom.com said: Do we have any plans to update it to his latest offering? I believe NetBSD's already done so and would be a good source for the bits if we need them. I have asked someone to do so several times in the past when Vern has mailed me about new versions, but nobody has stood up to the plate. My environment here is all OSPF now, so I can't properly test it. Finally learned enough about routing to understand this. Which router program does OSPF? Gated? Since OSPF seems to have a lot of good features, and it's hardly new, why isn't a router using OSPF installed with FreeBSD? +--- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chu...@picnic.mat.net | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). +--- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Our routed - Vern says it's old and buggy.
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 17:39:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Chuck Robey chu...@picnic.mat.net Finally learned enough about routing to understand this. Which router program does OSPF? Gated? As I recall from about '93 or so, yes. Since OSPF seems to have a lot of good features, and it's hardly new, why isn't a router using OSPF installed with FreeBSD? Sorry; that's in the realms of psychology, sociology, and/or metaphysics, and as such, is outside any areas where I'm qualified to comment. :-) Cheers, david -- David Wolfskill UNIX System Administrator d...@whistle.comvoice: (650) 577-7158 pager: (650) 371-4621 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Our routed - Vern says it's old and buggy.
Finally learned enough about routing to understand this. Which router program does OSPF? Gated? Yes. Since OSPF seems to have a lot of good features, and it's hardly new, why isn't a router using OSPF installed with FreeBSD? Probably because: - OSPF *is* more complex, and you need to learn more to configure it properly. - OSPF is arguably overkill for small networks. - OSPF can't be used in 'listen-only' mode like 'routed -q'. Steinar Haug, Nethelp consulting, sth...@nethelp.no To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Our routed - Vern says it's old and buggy.
On Tue, 27 Apr 1999 23:50:08 +0200, sth...@nethelp.no said: Finally learned enough about routing to understand this. Which router program does OSPF? Gated? Yes. Since OSPF seems to have a lot of good features, and it's hardly new, why isn't a router using OSPF installed with FreeBSD? Probably because: [three good reasons deleted] Most importantly: - Recent values of GateD are distributed under a very unfriendly license. -GAWollman -- Garrett A. Wollman | O Siem / We are all family / O Siem / We're all the same woll...@lcs.mit.edu | O Siem / The fires of freedom Opinions not those of| Dance in the burning flame MIT, LCS, CRS, or NSA| - Susan Aglukark and Chad Irschick To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Our routed - Vern says it's old and buggy.
On Tue, 27 Apr 1999, Garrett Wollman wrote: On Tue, 27 Apr 1999 23:50:08 +0200, sth...@nethelp.no said: Finally learned enough about routing to understand this. Which router program does OSPF? Gated? Yes. Since OSPF seems to have a lot of good features, and it's hardly new, why isn't a router using OSPF installed with FreeBSD? Probably because: [three good reasons deleted] Most importantly: - Recent values of GateD are distributed under a very unfriendly license. Must be more to it, then. The basic idea of what the OSPF router program should do, it doesn't sound like a huge problem to do, and the actual specs are pretty well laid out and public, right? +--- Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data chu...@picnic.mat.net | communications topic, C programming, and Unix. 213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic (FreeBSD-current) (301) 220-2114 | and jaunt (Solaris7). +--- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Our routed - Vern says it's old and buggy.
: : - Recent values of GateD are distributed under a very unfriendly : license. : :Must be more to it, then. The basic idea of what the OSPF router :program should do, it doesn't sound like a huge problem to do, and the :actual specs are pretty well laid out and public, right? : :+--- :Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data Given the choice between OSPF and RIP1/2, OSPF is far superior even on 'simple' networks. It is effectively an open protocol, like BGP. GateD is *very* unfriendly. It is user-unfriendly and it is OSS-unfriendly. It is not something I would like to see in the base distribution ( nor something I think we could put in the base distribution ). Also, the older, more OSS friendly versions of gated have too many bugs to be useable as a base. The OSPF implementation in it wasn't really fixed until late last year. For a knowledgeable programmer, building an OSPF router is not too hard to do, especially on modern UNIX systems like FreeBSD and Linux which have route monitoring sockets and fine control over the kernel routing tables. It would be a very cool thing to add. About a man-month worth of programming debugging. -Matt Matthew Dillon dil...@backplane.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Our routed - Vern says it's old and buggy.
On Tue, 27 Apr 1999, Garrett Wollman wrote: Most importantly: - Recent values of GateD are distributed under a very unfriendly license. There's also zebra, in ports (as someone pointed out on -net the other day), which seems to be GPL'ed. I haven't tried either of the two except to poke around briefly in the code.. Kris - The Feynman problem-solving algorithm: 1. Write down the problem 2. Think real hard 3. Write down the solution To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Our routed - Vern says it's old and buggy.
On Wed, Apr 28, 1999 at 09:36:09AM +0930, Kris Kennaway wrote: On Tue, 27 Apr 1999, Garrett Wollman wrote: Most importantly: - Recent values of GateD are distributed under a very unfriendly license. And the last free version is hideous in the extreme. There's also zebra, in ports (as someone pointed out on -net the other day), which seems to be GPL'ed. I haven't tried either of the two except to poke around briefly in the code.. It's also probably worth mentioning that Zebra is being developed in an extremely active and proactive fashion, and the principal developers are extremely open to contributed feedback and code. Zebra's BGP seems pretty good and stable right now; the OSPF work has apparently received a lot of attention recently, although I haven't tried it. One of the nice things about zebra is the way that each routing protocol is neatly compartmentalised into a separate daemon. This makes it simple and easy to maintain individual protocols (or add new ones) without jeopardising others. Joe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Our routed - Vern says it's old and buggy.
On Wed, Apr 28, 1999 at 02:45:50PM +1200, Joe Abley wrote: It's also probably worth mentioning that Zebra is being developed in an extremely active and proactive fashion, and the principal developers are extremely open to contributed feedback and code. And it says right on their information page, Currently we are developing zebra under: GNU/Linux 2.0.X GNU/Linux 2.2.X FreeBSD 2.2.8 FreeBSD 3.X FreeBSD 4.X [...] IPv6 support is for. FreeBSD with INRIA FreeBSD with KAME GNU/Linux with IPv6 GNU/Hurd with pfinet6 (under development) This seems like a very good thing. I have not tried Zebra, but unless there is something horribly wrong with it, I think it makes more sense to help them than to fall prey to Not Invented Here and do our own OSPF. Hopefully nobody will start a fight over the license. -- Christopher Masto Senior Network Monkey NetMonger Communications ch...@netmonger.neti...@netmonger.nethttp://www.netmonger.net Free yourself, free your machine, free the daemon -- http://www.freebsd.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
Re: Our routed - Vern says it's old and buggy.
Um, can we get back to the subject at hand PLEASE? Who among you is going to import the new routed? Garrett doesn't have testing facilities for RIP, so it has to be someone else. Since Chuck also appears to have boundless energy for this topic, might he be willing? :-) - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with unsubscribe freebsd-current in the body of the message
