Microsoft performance (was: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c))

[Anonymous]

On Tuesday, 22 June 1999 at 23:52:25 -0700, Mike Smith wrote:
 In case FreeBSD wants to enter commercial environments, we have to behave
 like behaving in commercial environments.
>>>
>>> Ok, so let's follow Microsoft's industry-leading documentation standards.
>>
>> He said "commercial", not "toy".
>
> Given that I've just spent a very unhappy couple of weeks demonstrating
> that this "toy" you're referring to outperforms us by a factor of
> anything from 3 to 10 on a range of basic benchmarks,

Really?  This is so different from anything I've heard that I'm
astounded.  How about some details?

> and has hundreds of developer-oriented books on the shelves in every
> major bookstore in the developed world, I think your position is
> perhaps slightly less than tenable here.

If that's a given, yes.

> But Mark illustrates my point perfectly; developers don't write
> documentation.  That's what camp followers are for.  So far, we have
> the ones that whine about the loot and throw mud at us when we march
> too slowly, but not enough of the ones that sew our banners, mend our
> pots and pans, or teach our version of the gospel to the heathens we
> subdue.

You can never get enough of them.

Greg
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Re: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c)

[Anonymous]

>From the keyboard of Warner Losh:

> ls /usr/share/man/man9 | egrep 
> 
> bus_generic_attach.9.gz
> bus_generic_detach.9.gz
[...]

I know. I just don't get an idea of the concept. Or am i missing something
here (something like a meta-manpage or a general description containing
pointers to the technical details to the already-being-there man-pages) ?

Perhaps it's just an oversight on my side ?

hellmuth
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Re: [DISKLABEL FRAGGED] Clues requested... ;)

[Josef Karthauser]

On Wed, Jun 23, 1999 at 12:24:07AM -0600, Warner Losh wrote:
> In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Josef Karthauser writes:
> : The data on the disk isn't crucial, I can rebuild the system if necessary, but
> : it seems that maybe I can spend less time writing a recovery tool than it would
> : take to start from scratch.
> 
> I have a program that searches the cylinder groups for signatures and
> tries to reconstruct a disk label (actually, it gives you the
> information you need to do that.  I can dig it up if you like.

Niall Smart has already sent me his.
Thanks anyway,
Joe
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Re: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c)

[Anonymous]

> >From the keyboard of Warner Losh:
> 
> > ls /usr/share/man/man9 | egrep 
> > 
> > bus_generic_attach.9.gz
> > bus_generic_detach.9.gz
> [...]
> 
> I know. I just don't get an idea of the concept. Or am i missing something
> here (something like a meta-manpage or a general description containing
> pointers to the technical details to the already-being-there man-pages) ?

I rest my case.

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\\  of the man.   \\  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: CDROM drive doesn't probe if no CD present [Was:cannot mount cd indicates bad ide cd drive - replace?]

[Anonymous]

It seems Doug White wrote:
> I'm lofting this up on -hackers to get the attention of the ATAPI CD
> driver programmer -- Soren, you still around?  Take a look at this.

I'm here alright :)
Sounds like the drive has a firmwarebug, If you are running -current
try the ata driver instead, and let me know how that turns out...

-Søren

> On Tue, 22 Jun 1999, Woody Carey wrote:
> 
> > Ok, here is some more information:
> > 
> > Here is the behavior when there is no cd in the drive at bootup [reboot,
> > actually]
> > ^M^[[Kmyname# mount /cdrom
> > cd9660: Input/output error
> > myname# dmesg
> 
> [...]
> 
> > wdc0: unit 1 (atapi): , removable, accel, dma, iordy
> > acd0: drive speed 0 - 4125KB/sec, 128KB cache
> > acd0: supported read types: CD-R, CD-RW, CD-DA
> > acd0: Audio: play, 255 volume levels
> > acd0: Mechanism: ejectable tray
> > acd0: Medium: no/blank disc inside, unlocked 
> 
> > and here is the dmesg output and mount output with a cd in the drive at
> > boot:
> > 
> > myname# dmesg
> [...]
> > wdc0: unit 1 (atapi): , removable, accel, dma, iordy
> > acd0: drive speed 4125KB/sec, 128KB cache
> > acd0: supported read types: CD-R, CD-RW, CD-DA
> > acd0: Audio: play, 255 volume levels
> > acd0: Mechanism: ejectable tray
> > acd0: Medium: CD-ROM 120mm data disc loaded, unlocked
> 
> > myname# mount /cdrom 
> > 
> > There was some success message on the console after this mount
> > indicating success.
> > It did not appear in this script output, obviously.  
> 
> Bizarre.  That may be a driver bug or your drive is getting into an
> inconsistent state if it doesn't boot with a CD present.
> 
> What brand/model of CD drive is it?
> 
> Doug White   
> Internet:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]| FreeBSD: The Power to Serve
> http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dwhite| www.freebsd.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Inetd and wrapping.

[Anonymous]

On Tue, 22 Jun 1999 18:18:34 -0400, John Baldwin wrote:

> But if I want to log *all* connections to service foo, but not bar, I
> could not use tcpd for foo and and bar by itself and achieve that, so
> you are removing some configurability.  If very few people use this
> extra configurability and if it is a pain to add it in, then I guess
> it's no real big deal.

I used to pride myself in my communication skills, but I'm starting to
doubt myself. :-)

My concern is that what you want introduces duplicate functionality. I'm
not denying that you can't do exactly the same things with inetd that
you could with tcpd, but that's to be expected.

So far, the mail that I've received which has requested per-case
exclusion options has been motivated by two concerns:

1) Performance.

   I think we're all clear now that exclusion options will not
   introduce a significant performance gain. We've already
   scored our performance gain by obviating an exec on tcpd.

2) Logging.

   I understand that folks want to be able to have their logs
   look the same as they did when tcpd was in use. That's
   already not possible, since the wrapping-related messages you
   see come from inetd[pid] and not tcpd[pid].

   I believe that you can have all the messages you used to get
   going to all the places it used to go, but now using
   different configuration. Now you should use the
   hosts_options(5) "severity" option to assign a syslog
   selector to the messages generated for a service and tune
   syslog.conf to get messages to the right log destinations.

It's critical that folks understand that built-in wrapping in inetd is
not the same as inetd passing the job of wrapping to a program called
tcpd. Something different is happening in each case. It just so happens
that the two cases share a common goal.

When you say you want "functionality that exists with TCP wrappers", I
think you mean "identical semantics to those used with tcpd". You can't
have it, it's that simple.

What you should be able to have is the same functionality as was
available when using tcpd. I don't think the fact that you may need to
set things up differently to achieve the same results as you had before
isn't a serious problem, because you're doing a different thing now.

Hopefully this clarifies what's going on in my head. :-)

Later,
Sheldon.


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USB scanners?

[Anonymous]

Does anybody have a USB scanner running under FreeBSD, or know how to
get one running?  I'm prepared to do some work, but I'd like to know I
had some chance of success.

Greg
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Re: USB scanners?

[Anonymous]

No one I know off. And I don't know of a scanner that we could easily
support. It might be that there are scanners that work through the Mass
Storage class specification (converted SCSI scanners).

If you have a scanner run the usb_dump utility available from

http://www.etla.net/~n_hibma/usb/usb_dump.c

and send me the output, so we can figure out what interfaces and classes
it supports. 

Nick

On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Greg Lehey wrote:

 > Does anybody have a USB scanner running under FreeBSD, or know how to
 > get one running?  I'm prepared to do some work, but I'd like to know I
 > had some chance of success.
 > 
 > Greg
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Re: USB scanners?

[Anonymous]

On Wednesday, 23 June 1999 at 11:09:50 +0200, Nick Hibma wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Greg Lehey wrote:
>
>> Does anybody have a USB scanner running under FreeBSD, or know how to
>> get one running?  I'm prepared to do some work, but I'd like to know I
>> had some chance of success.
>
> No one I know off. And I don't know of a scanner that we could easily
> support. It might be that there are scanners that work through the Mass
> Storage class specification (converted SCSI scanners).

*sigh* that's what I was afraid you'd say.

> If you have a scanner run the usb_dump utility available from
>
>   http://www.etla.net/~n_hibma/usb/usb_dump.c
>
> and send me the output, so we can figure out what interfaces and classes
> it supports.

No, I don't have one yet.  I was thinking of buying a scanner, and it
seemed to be a logical thing to buy a USB scanner and write a driver
for FreeBSD.

I suppose I could contact all the scanner manufacturers and ask for
programming docco.  Does anybody have any leads?

Greg
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Re: USB scanners?

[Anonymous]

> No, I don't have one yet.  I was thinking of buying a scanner, and it
> seemed to be a logical thing to buy a USB scanner and write a driver
> for FreeBSD.
> 
> I suppose I could contact all the scanner manufacturers and ask for
> programming docco.  Does anybody have any leads?

this is a painful road in my experience. I suggest that you look at the
SANE web page and see if there are pointers to documentation.

HP has some documentation of the language (SCL ?) used by its SCSI
scanners but i don't know to what degree it applies to non-SCSI
units.

cheers
luigi
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Re: [usb-bsd] Re: USB scanners?

[Anonymous]

 > No, I don't have one yet.  I was thinking of buying a scanner, and it
 > seemed to be a logical thing to buy a USB scanner and write a driver
 > for FreeBSD.
 > 
 > I suppose I could contact all the scanner manufacturers and ask for
 > programming docco.  Does anybody have any leads?

Some guy from HP promised to send me some feedback on a cheapo HP
scanner I have, but so far no luck. No one has (been) proded so far I
think.

Nick



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Re: USB scanners?

[Anonymous]

Where is this docu available?

 > this is a painful road in my experience. I suggest that you look at the
 > SANE web page and see if there are pointers to documentation.
 > 
 > HP has some documentation of the language (SCL ?) used by its SCSI
 > scanners but i don't know to what degree it applies to non-SCSI
 > units.
 > 
 >  cheers
 >  luigi
 > ---+-
 >   Luigi RIZZO, [EMAIL PROTECTED]  . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione
 >   http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/  . Universita` di Pisa
 >   TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy)
 > 
 >http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ngc99/
 >   First International Workshop on Networked Group Communication  
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 > 
 > 
 > To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: USB scanners?

[Anonymous]

> Does anybody have a USB scanner running under FreeBSD, or know how to
> get one running?  I'm prepared to do some work, but I'd like to know I
> had some chance of success.

I have a HP ScanJet 5200C and would like to write a driver for it.
Can please someone give me pointers to USB documents? I'm writing
device drivers and protocol engines for ISDN and H.323 but USB is
a new area for me.

; Bodo

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(2) Dinosaurs too. 
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Re: USB scanners?

[Anonymous]

 > I have a HP ScanJet 5200C and would like to write a driver for it.
 > Can please someone give me pointers to USB documents? I'm writing
 > device drivers and protocol engines for ISDN and H.323 but USB is
 > a new area for me.


USB home page:

http://www.usb.org/
(developers section)

USB for FreeBSD home page:

http://www.etla.net/~n_hibma/usb/usb.pl

FYI: I am currently writing a driver for the 3COM USB modem (5605) and
the 3COM USB ISDN-TA (Andorra, will come out later this year). These
will support the AT interface nothing else yet. 

Nick


 > 
 > ; Bodo
 > 
 > -- 
 > Bodo Rüskamp, [EMAIL PROTECTED], 51°55' N 7°41' E
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 > (2) Dinosaurs too. 
 > (3) The next millenium starts on January 1st 2000.
 > 
 > 
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Re: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c)

[Anonymous]

>  > > And as to the author: Writing docu while you are implementing something
>  > > might work in a commercial environment where you want to be able to
>  > > market something before it's sell-by date, but for hobbiests who
>  > > basically spend the odd evening doing something, it is too much hassle.
>  > 
>  > In case FreeBSD wants to enter commercial environments, we have to behave
>  > like behaving in commercial environments.
>  
> Ok, so let's follow Microsoft's industry-leading documentation standards.

That remark is content-free for all of us who never read MS
documentation.

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Re: Serial Console Wierdness

[Anonymous]

Hi,

At 19:37 22/06/99 -0500, Chris Csanady wrote:
>"Bill G." wrote:
>> 
>> I got a serial console working on COM2, to which I have connected
>> another FreeBSD box.  I connect with 'cu' fine, but I'm running into
>> a couple of problems which I haven't been able to find and answer
>> for.
>> 
>> o  When I connect, when the machine is first turned on, I get
>>disconnected twice during the boot up sequence (cu reports
>>Got hangup signal) -- looks like when the sio1 device is
>>probed, and also when getty runs.
>
>This happens when the serial chip gets reset, and the DCD line
>goes low for a moment.  [etc]

Some buggy UARTs drop control lines when the baud rate is set, even if it's
being set to the current value. There used (eons ago) to be a patch for
this (don't set the baud rate if it's already the desired value); someone
who knows the driver better than I do should check that it's not still a
problem.

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Re: USB scanners?

[Anonymous]

> No one I know off. And I don't know of a scanner that we could easily
> support. It might be that there are scanners that work through the Mass
> Storage class specification (converted SCSI scanners).
> 
> If you have a scanner run the usb_dump utility available from
> 
>   http://www.etla.net/~n_hibma/usb/usb_dump.c
> 
> and send me the output, so we can figure out what interfaces and classes
> it supports. 

Nick, do you need such info for generic hw as well ? I start seeing
USP peripherals around in the office and i can briefly borrow them
and run a quick dump on my 3.2 machine.

cheers
luigi
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Re: USB scanners?

[Anonymous]

> Where is this docu available?

it is part of the painful road. all i remember is i had to browse through the
HP webpages looking for "SCL" or "Scanner Command Language" or so after starting
with generic search for programming info on the ScanJet scanners.

the search was non trivial.

cheers
luigi

>  > this is a painful road in my experience. I suggest that you look at the
>  > SANE web page and see if there are pointers to documentation.
>  > 
>  > HP has some documentation of the language (SCL ?) used by its SCSI
>  > scanners but i don't know to what degree it applies to non-SCSI
>  > units.
>  > 
>  >cheers
>  >luigi
>  > ---+-
>  >   Luigi RIZZO, [EMAIL PROTECTED]  . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione
>  >   http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/  . Universita` di Pisa
>  >   TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy)
>  > 
>  >  http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ngc99/
>  >   First International Workshop on Networked Group Communication  
>  > ---+-
>  > 
>  > 
>  > To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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>  > 
>  > 
> 
> -- 
> ISIS/STA, T.P.270, Joint Research Centre, 21020 Ispra, Italy
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [usb-bsd] Re: USB scanners?

[Anonymous]

What kind of devices do you see showing up?

Would be a great help to get some idea of what is needed for the various
devices. For mice the support is pretty much cooked, but for example
keyboards sometimes have an extra mouse port.

Interesting would be things like camera's (still as well as video),
scanners, fingerprint readers, modems, ethernet adapters, anything
really.

I have printouts for the following devices
-mice
-BTC keyboard
-3COM modem
-HP 2700 scanner
-Labtech speakers
-3COM ethernet iface

Or hubs with extra functions (like the Entrega ones).

Nick

 > Nick, do you need such info for generic hw as well ? I start seeing
 > USP peripherals around in the office and i can briefly borrow them
 > and run a quick dump on my 3.2 machine.
 > 
 >  cheers
 >  luigi
 > ---+-
 >   Luigi RIZZO, [EMAIL PROTECTED]  . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione
 >   http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/  . Universita` di Pisa
 >   TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy)
 > 
 >http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ngc99/
 >   First International Workshop on Networked Group Communication  
 > ---+-
 > 
 > 

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Re: [usb-bsd] Re: USB scanners?

[Anonymous]

> What kind of devices do you see showing up?

i have an  epson photo750 printer, and colleagues around seem to
have a few USB cameras. Haven't seen yet any USB scanner in the 
office but all new one seem to be USB so as soon as one comes
in i am sure it will be USB

cheers
luigi

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Re: [usb-bsd] Re: USB scanners?

[Anonymous]

On 23-Jun-99 Nick Hibma wrote:
>  What kind of devices do you see showing up?
>  Would be a great help to get some idea of what is needed for the various
>  devices. For mice the support is pretty much cooked, but for example
>  keyboards sometimes have an extra mouse port.

Well I have access to a HP ScanJet at work, and USB modems are real cheap :)

IMHO its kinda pointless having USB mice/kbd since PS/2 does that pretty well,
but stuff like scanners and modems which eat serial/parallel ports are handy to
have as USB.

Not that I actually OWN any USB HW (yet :)

---
Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer
for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au
"The nice thing about standards is that there
are so many of them to choose from."
  -- Andrew Tanenbaum



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Re: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c)

[Tim Vanderhoek]

[Cc: line trimmed dramatically]

On Tue, Jun 22, 1999 at 11:52:25PM -0700, Mike Smith wrote:
> 
> Given that I've just spent a very unhappy couple of weeks demonstrating 
> that this "toy" you're referring to outperforms us by a factor of 
> anything from 3 to 10 on a range of basic benchmarks, and has hundreds 

Hmm...  You were doing something with Mindcraft, right?  Have the
results been officially released?  In a grand sweeping statement, can
you say how Linux did?


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Re: vi(1) is for whimps

[Anonymous]

On 22 Jun 1999, Jesus Monroy wrote:

> vi(1) is for whimps
> http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lab/1986/viforwhimps.html

As long as you're critiquing people for what you called (paraphrased) "a
smiley that made you sound insincere", I guess I'll point out that
the word is "wimps".


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Re: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c)

[David Wolfskill]

>Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 09:12:12 +0300 (EEST)
>From: Taavi Talvik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

>If you write man pages first time, it is quite close to clack magic.

It may seem that way (ref. Arthur C. Clark), but I respectfully
disagree.

>It would be really nice if someone comfortant with troff/nroff etc.
>would make Handbook page describing how to get started with it.
>Maybe even templates or script generating page sceletion and pointers to
>them under some handbook entry

When I have written man pages (for internal scripts & things -- the only
thing I've been able to contribute back to the community of late was a
small patch to amd (libamu/mount_fs.c), and that didn't warrant any man
page changes), I've picked up the source for some other man page that I
thought was put together well, copied it, and then started changing the
content as appropriate, with the man pages for mdoc(7) and mdoc.samples(7)
in auxiliary windows for reference... along with another window for trying
out the results.

The results have generally been quite usable, and considerably better
than nothing.

For me, there are typically two big obstacles:

* forming a clear idea of what needs to be written and

* getting started in the first place.

(Well, there's the meta-obstacle of more things to do than time to do
them, and changing priorities for many of these things.)

One of the big advantages we have is the ability to start with others'
work, and improve on it or adapt it to new uses.  (The "we" there is
somewhat context-sensitive.  In the context of the man pages, the
referent may be taken as the community of folks who have historically
had access to the troff sources for the man pages.  I am aware of only a
couple of aberrant UNIX-ish systems that only provided the pre-formatted
(and sometimes, compressed) man pages; I believe that most folks using
UNIX have had access to the "real thing" -- and certainly anyone working
with an "Open Source" UNIX(-like) system has access to them.)

Cheers,
david
-- 
David Wolfskill [EMAIL PROTECTED] UNIX System Administrator
voice: (650) 577-7158   pager: (888) 347-0197   FAX: (650) 372-5915


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Re: [usb-bsd] Re: USB scanners?

[Anonymous]

 > Well I have access to a HP ScanJet at work, and USB modems are real cheap :)

FreeBSD Inc. and 3Com give them away for free lately...


 > 
 > IMHO its kinda pointless having USB mice/kbd since PS/2 does that pretty well,
 > but stuff like scanners and modems which eat serial/parallel ports are handy to
 > have as USB.
 > 
 > Not that I actually OWN any USB HW (yet :)
 > 
 > ---
 > Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer
 > for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au
 > "The nice thing about standards is that there
 > are so many of them to choose from."
 >   -- Andrew Tanenbaum
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 

-- 
ISIS/STA, T.P.270, Joint Research Centre, 21020 Ispra, Italy



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.so versions

[Anonymous]

hi, there!

sorry if this question is not for -hackers

I have some program that loads some .so via dlopen (ELF)
and the looks up some symbols in that .so (functions) and calls that
functions (with some known ABI).

There are two problems with this:
- how to check ABI version for program and .so (to be sure that ABI
version used by program and implemented in .so are the same)
- how to reload foo.so safely. i.e. if there were any errors while
reloading foo.so the program should be able to run with previously loaded
version of foo.so (symbols obtained from previous load of foo.so should
not be lost).

/fjoe



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NIS Question

[Anonymous]

Here's my situation:

1.  I would like to set up NIS on my network.
2.  I have one FreeBSD system(2.2.6)
3.  I have many other flavors of Unix on this network
4.  I would like the FreeBSD system to export it's passwd and group files to
the other machines

How do I achieve this?  Do I just run ypserv & ypbind?   Any FAQ's around???

Thanx up front!



Nick
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Page: http://www.lopresti.dhs.org/users/nick



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Re: Serial Console Wierdness

[Anonymous]

Followup to my original post, and to the replies.

I am now using kermit -- which works great (better than having to reconnect
with cu all the time).

I was able to get rid of the garbage (anytime output scrolled past the end
of the screen[24 lines]), by using a different terminal program.  I was
using plain old xterm, I fired up Eterm - and it works without a hitch.

Also, I did re-compile and am now successfully connecting at 115200.

Bill

 >I got a serial console working on COM2, to which I have connected
 >another FreeBSD box.  I connect with 'cu' fine, but I'm running into
 >a couple of problems which I haven't been able to find and answer
 >for.
 >
 >o  When I connect, when the machine is first turned on, I get
 >   disconnected twice during the boot up sequence (cu reports
 >   Got hangup signal) -- looks like when the sio1 device is
 >   probed, and also when getty runs.
 >
 >o  9600 was rather slow, so I changed it to 115200, which worked,
 >   however I had a few problems with terminal display -- any
 >   output that scrolls down past the bottom of the screen gets
 >   'garbled'.  (IE, I run clear; ls -l /  -- the first 23 lines
 >   look ok then it gets messed up).  Same results from console
 >   mode of my client machine and from an xterm.  I thought that
 >   115200 might be too fast, so I slowed it down to 38400, but
 >   same trouble.  I'm not sure if this occured at 9600.



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Difference between msync() and fsync()

[Zhihui Zhang]

After we mmap a file, we can write back the dirty pages of the file either
by calling msync() or fsync(). After reading the source code, it seems to
me that they actually does the same thing.  msync() will eventually call
VOP_FSYNC() as fsync() does. Since msync() has already call the routine
vm_object_page_clean() to write back the dirty pages of the file,
VOP_FSYNC() really does not have much left to do except update the inode. 

So is there any real differnce between msync() and fsync() on mmapped
files? Or are they simply provided to do the same thing in an alternate
way?

Thanks for any help.

--
Zhihui Zhang.  Please visit http://www.freebsd.org
--



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Re: Difference between msync() and fsync()

[Anonymous]

You should first check out how msync/fsync work on something like solaris,
since every time I've checked for the last five years or so no version of
bsd has really got it working right (although netbsd + UVM may finally
have it).

To observe msync/fsync in action use tcpdump to watch a host as it does
msync/fsync on an nfs-mounted file system. You can tell by the NFS packets
what's actually going on. Be sure to do msync on partial mapped ranges,
not simple msync's of the whole region, as well as on dirty pages, clean
pages, etc. Obviously for clean pages you should see no traffic when the
msync is called, and you should see traffic when the page is referenced
again. I've never had this latter test work on freebsd, and lots of other
os'es. The only OS it ever really worked correctly on is sunos/solaris.

You can search old archives for a long message from me (ca. 1995?) about
how msync doesn't work right on freebsd.

ron




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Connect and so on..

[Anonymous]

Hi All.

I'm trying to create a system call that will burst a (pseudo) quick tcp
message out to a remote host every time that it is called. I've got the
system call all worked out as a kld, it loads and restores without a
hitch.

I use the calling proc's table as it is passed to the system call, and am
trying to call socket and connect as if the user process originally called
them one by one (from userland syscall 97 and 98). I seem to be getting
the correct behaviour from socket, but the connect call fails. After
DDB'ing and breaking on the call to connect, it appears to fail at copyin
with an EFAULT (invalid address). Call stack: copyin from getsockaddr from
connect. What am I missing here, and/or what incorrect assumptions have I
made? I'm including the actual system call function below.

Thanks!

Dan

P.S. I test the system call from userland with a small C prog that uses
syscall().

 CODE starts 

static int init_comms(p, uap)
struct proc *p;
register struct nosys_args *uap;
{
  int sockfd1, stat; 
  struct socket_args socket_uap;
  struct connect_args connect_uap;
  static struct sockaddr_in servaddr;
 
  socket_uap.domain = PF_LOCAL;
  socket_uap.type = SOCK_STREAM;
  socket_uap.protocol = 0; 

  printf("\ninit_comms: proc -> pid: %d\n", (int) p->p_pid);

  stat = socket(p, &socket_uap);
 
  sockfd1 = p->p_retval[0];
 
  bzero(&servaddr, sizeof(servaddr));
  
  servaddr.sin_family = AF_LOCAL;
  servaddr.sin_port   = htons(13);
  servaddr.sin_len= sizeof servaddr;
  

 if ( inet_aton((char *) "127.0.0.1", &servaddr.sin_addr) <= 0 )
printf("\ninet_aton failed.\n");
  
   
  printf("\nservaddr: %x\n", servaddr.sin_addr.s_addr);
  
  /* Prints 17e */
  
  connect_uap.s = sockfd1;
  connect_uap.name = (caddr_t) &servaddr;
  connect_uap.namelen = sizeof servaddr;
  
  stat = 0;
  stat = connect(p, &connect_uap);
  
  printf("\nConnect Stat: %d\n", stat);
  
  /* Prints 14 (EFAULT) */
  
  return 0;
 
}

- Code Ends ---



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Re: Microsoft performance (was: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c))

[Anonymous]

On Wed, Jun 23, 1999 at 04:39:28PM +0930, Greg Lehey wrote:
> > But Mark illustrates my point perfectly; developers don't write
> > documentation.  That's what camp followers are for.  So far, we have
> > the ones that whine about the loot and throw mud at us when we march
> > too slowly, but not enough of the ones that sew our banners, mend our
> > pots and pans, or teach our version of the gospel to the heathens we
> > subdue.
> 
> You can never get enough of them.

And you don't get them by calling them "camp followers" either.

You get them by supporting them.  Documentation doesn't spring out of 
thin air.  If (to pick an example) the new syscons stuff[1] is undocumented
then someone's got to document it.

Right now, that can only be done by the original developers.  In three
month's time we might have enough people who have written code with it
that they could do it.

And in a year's time we might have someone who's been diligently 
following the mailing lists and has managed to piece something together
based on what they've soon.  Or who has been forced to use this mass of
undocumented code[2], worked out how it works, *and* taken the time to
write the documentation.

So, when do you want useful documentation?

N

[1]  Chosen at random.  I haven't looked at it, so have no idea how clear
 or easy to follow the syscons code is.

[2]  See footnote 1 again.
-- 
 [intentional self-reference] can be easily accommodated using a blessed,
 non-self-referential dummy head-node whose own object destructor severs
 the links.
-- Tom Christiansen in <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


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Re: Connect and so on..

[Anonymous]

On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Dan Seguin wrote:

> 
> 
> Hi All.
> 
> I'm trying to create a system call that will burst a (pseudo) quick tcp
> message out to a remote host every time that it is called. I've got the
> system call all worked out as a kld, it loads and restores without a
> hitch.

Good, you're mostly there then!

> 
> I use the calling proc's table as it is passed to the system call, and am
> trying to call socket and connect as if the user process originally called
> them one by one (from userland syscall 97 and 98). I seem to be getting
> the correct behaviour from socket, but the connect call fails. After
> DDB'ing and breaking on the call to connect, it appears to fail at copyin
> with an EFAULT (invalid address). Call stack: copyin from getsockaddr from
> connect. What am I missing here, and/or what incorrect assumptions have I
> made? I'm including the actual system call function below.

copyin() is done to get the sockaddr from the connect call. A copyin() is a user-space
to kernel-space memory copy, so you have a problem in your code (I'll point out where
below).

> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Dan
> 
> P.S. I test the system call from userland with a small C prog that uses
> syscall().
> 
>  CODE starts 
> 
> static int init_comms(p, uap)
> struct proc *p;
> register struct nosys_args *uap;
> {
>   int sockfd1, stat; 
>   struct socket_args socket_uap;
>   struct connect_args connect_uap;
>   static struct sockaddr_in servaddr;

This needs to be a valid structure in USER space, not kernel.

>  
>   socket_uap.domain = PF_LOCAL;
>   socket_uap.type = SOCK_STREAM;
>   socket_uap.protocol = 0; 
> 
>   stat = socket(p, &socket_uap);
if (stat)
return stat;
>  
>   sockfd1 = p->p_retval[0];
>  
>   bzero(&servaddr, sizeof(servaddr));
>   
>   servaddr.sin_family = AF_LOCAL;
>   servaddr.sin_port   = htons(13);
>   servaddr.sin_len= sizeof servaddr;
>   
> 
>  if ( inet_aton((char *) "127.0.0.1", &servaddr.sin_addr) <= 0 )
This is a bogus cast. const char * to char *?
> printf("\ninet_aton failed.\n");
So return EINVAL.
>   
>
>   printf("\nservaddr: %x\n", servaddr.sin_addr.s_addr);
AHEM! Why??
>   
>   /* Prints 17e */

Try using servaddr.sin_addr.saddr = 0;

>   
>   connect_uap.s = sockfd1;
>   connect_uap.name = (caddr_t) &servaddr;

That's the problem. It needs to point to (say) uap->servaddr;

>   connect_uap.namelen = sizeof servaddr;
>   
>   stat = 0;
>   stat = connect(p, &connect_uap);
>   
>   printf("\nConnect Stat: %d\n", stat);
>   
Take that out.
>   /* Prints 14 (EFAULT) */
>   
>   return 0;
return stat instead. The standard is to use a variable named "error".
>  
> }
> 
> - Code Ends ---
> 
> 
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
> 
Note that I haven't checked the correctness of the code other than a quick glance.
These errors are real, though.

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 [EMAIL PROTECTED]   _ __ ___ | _ ) __|   \ 
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Re: Microsoft performance (was: All this and documentation too?(was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c))

[Anonymous]

On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Nik Clayton wrote:

[deleted cvs-all from the list of cc's, how'd it get there?

> On Wed, Jun 23, 1999 at 04:39:28PM +0930, Greg Lehey wrote:
> > > But Mark illustrates my point perfectly; developers don't write
> > > documentation.  That's what camp followers are for.  So far, we have
> > > the ones that whine about the loot and throw mud at us when we march
> > > too slowly, but not enough of the ones that sew our banners, mend our
> > > pots and pans, or teach our version of the gospel to the heathens we
> > > subdue.
> > 
> > You can never get enough of them.
> 
> And you don't get them by calling them "camp followers" either.

But one thing I like is, although FreeBSD *does* try to appease user
demands, it's controlled by programmers, not users, so if something is
a technically extemely evil idea, no matter how the masses yell for it,
it will NOT happen.

We want to listen to our users, we don't want to disparage them, but we
sure don't want to "sell our souls" to the masses either.  FreeBSD is
technical, and we want it to stay that way.  If we can be smart and form
something that everyone else likes, that's also very good, but not the
first priority, I think.

Making something we are all proud of, that's what keeps programmers
here.

+---
Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   | communications topic, C programming, and Unix.
213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1  |
Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic and jaunt, both FreeBSD-current.
(301) 220-2114  | 
+---






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Re: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c)

[Anonymous]

> On Wednesday, 23 June 1999 at  9:12:12 +0300, Taavi Talvik wrote:
> > On Tue, 22 Jun 1999, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote:
> > If you write man pages first time, it is quite close to clack magic.
> > It would be really nice if someone comfortant with troff/nroff etc.
> > would make Handbook page describing how to get started with it.
> > Maybe even templates or script generating page sceletion and pointers to
> > them under some handbook entry
> >
> ...
> 
> There's a man page for it :-)
> 
> mdoc.samples(7).  Now tell me that that's not intuitive.

And in /usr/share/examples/mdoc there are three example templates
for section 1, 3, and 4 manual pages. 

- Sections 1, 6 and 8 are all pretty much the same (user commands, games, 
  administrator commands).
- Sections 2 and 3 are pretty much the same (system calls and library
  functions).
- Section 4 is used to describe external kernel interfaces.  The individual
  formats can vary.  The most common format is defined in example.4.
- Section 5 is used to describe file formats, and due to the individual
  requirements of each different man page, there really isn't a general
  purpose template that would cover most cases.  What I usually do for
  this section is to find another man page that I want mine to look like
  and edit it to suit my taste.
- Section 7 is for misc. documentation.  Format varys with what is being
  documented.
- Section 9 is similar to section 2, with a sprinkling of section 4
  in some cases, and then some more depending on the interface.  Again, for 
  something fancy, look for man page that has all of the different sections 
  you want in your own man page and edit to taste.

Also refer to mdoc.samples(7) and mdoc(7).  mdoc(7) briefly describes
all of the different mdoc macros.  mdoc.samples(7) describes them all, 
along with examples of how each one should be used.

As someone who has written a number of manual pages for FreeBSD, I think
that for most things the examples in /usr/share/examples/mdoc should
serve most would be man page writers fine (I use them).  For more complex
man pages, I usually just grab an existing man page and edit to tase.

-Mike
-- 
Mike Pritchard
[EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...)

[Anonymous]

At 4:39 PM +0930 6/23/99, Greg Lehey wrote:
>On Tuesday, 22 June 1999 at 23:52:25 -0700, Mike Smith wrote:
>> [someone said]
>>| [someone said]
>>|> Ok, so let's follow Microsoft's industry-leading documentation
>>|> standards.
>>|
>>| He said "commercial", not "toy".
>>
>> Given that I've just spent a very unhappy couple of weeks
>> demonstrating that this "toy" you're referring to outperforms
>> us by a factor of anything from 3 to 10 on a range of basic
>> benchmarks,
>
> Really?  This is so different from anything I've heard that I'm
> astounded.  How about some details?

I also found Mike's comment on performance interesting.  I assume
he's talking about system performance, and not documentation
performance.  Was this when testing WinNT-2000, or just the latest
service pack on WinNT 4?

---
Garance Alistair Drosehn   =   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Senior Systems Programmer  or  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute


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ispell(1) is for WIMPs (was Re: vi(1) is for whimps)

[Anonymous]

Bill Fumerola wrote:
> 
> On 22 Jun 1999, Jesus Monroy wrote:
> 
> > vi(1) is for whimps
> > http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lab/1986/viforwhimps.html
> 
> As long as you're critiquing people for what you called (paraphrased) "a
> smiley that made you sound insincere", I guess I'll point out that
> the word is "wimps".

If you're going to stand on a soap box and preach, you should 
probably make sure the lables on the soap box aren't contradicting
your message.

-- 
   "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?"

Wes Peters Softweyr LLC
http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr  [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...)

[Anonymous]

On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Garance A Drosihn wrote:

> At 4:39 PM +0930 6/23/99, Greg Lehey wrote:
> >On Tuesday, 22 June 1999 at 23:52:25 -0700, Mike Smith wrote:
> >> [someone said]
> >>| [someone said]
> >>|> Ok, so let's follow Microsoft's industry-leading documentation
> >>|> standards.
> >>|
> >>| He said "commercial", not "toy".
> >>
> >> Given that I've just spent a very unhappy couple of weeks
> >> demonstrating that this "toy" you're referring to outperforms
> >> us by a factor of anything from 3 to 10 on a range of basic
> >> benchmarks,
> >
> > Really?  This is so different from anything I've heard that I'm
> > astounded.  How about some details?
> 
> I also found Mike's comment on performance interesting.  I assume
> he's talking about system performance, and not documentation
> performance.  Was this when testing WinNT-2000, or just the latest
> service pack on WinNT 4?

s/interesting/unbelievable/g and you've got my reaction. This makes so little
sense that I can't even imagine it.

> 
> ---
> Garance Alistair Drosehn   =   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Senior Systems Programmer  or  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
> 
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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> 

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 [EMAIL PROTECTED]   _ __ ___ | _ ) __|   \ 
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Re: ispell(1) is for WIMPs (was Re: vi(1) is for whimps)

[Anonymous]

This belongs in freebsd-chat, if anywhere.

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Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...)

[Anonymous]

On Wed, Jun 23, 1999 at 11:24:03PM -0400, Brian F. Feldman wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Garance A Drosihn wrote:
> 
> > At 4:39 PM +0930 6/23/99, Greg Lehey wrote:
> > >On Tuesday, 22 June 1999 at 23:52:25 -0700, Mike Smith wrote:
> > >> [someone said]
> > >>| [someone said]
> > >>|> Ok, so let's follow Microsoft's industry-leading documentation
> > >>|> standards.
> > >>|
> > >>| He said "commercial", not "toy".
> > >>
> > >> Given that I've just spent a very unhappy couple of weeks
> > >> demonstrating that this "toy" you're referring to outperforms
> > >> us by a factor of anything from 3 to 10 on a range of basic
> > >> benchmarks,
> > >
> > > Really?  This is so different from anything I've heard that I'm
> > > astounded.  How about some details?
> > 
> > I also found Mike's comment on performance interesting.  I assume
> > he's talking about system performance, and not documentation
> > performance.  Was this when testing WinNT-2000, or just the latest
> > service pack on WinNT 4?
> 
> s/interesting/unbelievable/g and you've got my reaction. This makes so little
> sense that I can't even imagine it.

Me too.

I've found FreeBSD to outperform NT-anything in any task you throw at the
machine from web service to Samba for file and print service for PCs
running Windows.

Its more stable too; the stability is a free "bonus" that comes at no
extra charge :-).

--
-- 
Karl Denninger ([EMAIL PROTECTED])  Web: fathers.denninger.net
I ain't even *authorized* to speak for anyone other than myself, so give
up now on trying to associate my words with any particular organization.


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Re: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isasio.c)

[Anonymous]

On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Greg Lehey wrote:

> There's a man page for it :-)
> 
> mdoc.samples(7).  Now tell me that that's not intuitive.

Is it just me or does everyone get a (non-fatal) error as mdoc.samples(7)
is formatted? The perfect man page for an error as well :-)

Andrew



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Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...)

[Anonymous]

On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Karl Denninger wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 23, 1999 at 11:24:03PM -0400, Brian F. Feldman wrote:
> > On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Garance A Drosihn wrote:
> > 
> > > At 4:39 PM +0930 6/23/99, Greg Lehey wrote:
> > > >On Tuesday, 22 June 1999 at 23:52:25 -0700, Mike Smith wrote:
> > > >> [someone said]
> > > >>| [someone said]
> > > >>|> Ok, so let's follow Microsoft's industry-leading documentation
> > > >>|> standards.
> > > >>|
> > > >>| He said "commercial", not "toy".
> > > >>
> > > >> Given that I've just spent a very unhappy couple of weeks
> > > >> demonstrating that this "toy" you're referring to outperforms
> > > >> us by a factor of anything from 3 to 10 on a range of basic
> > > >> benchmarks,
> > > >
> > > > Really?  This is so different from anything I've heard that I'm
> > > > astounded.  How about some details?
> > > 
> > > I also found Mike's comment on performance interesting.  I assume
> > > he's talking about system performance, and not documentation
> > > performance.  Was this when testing WinNT-2000, or just the latest
> > > service pack on WinNT 4?
> > 
> > s/interesting/unbelievable/g and you've got my reaction. This makes so little
> > sense that I can't even imagine it.
> 
> Me too.
> 
> I've found FreeBSD to outperform NT-anything in any task you throw at the
> machine from web service to Samba for file and print service for PCs
> running Windows.
> 
> Its more stable too; the stability is a free "bonus" that comes at no
> extra charge :-).

I wish people wouldn't jump in with claims like this...
(not the stability part)

Ok well here are some real numbers for you..
Win NT 4processors 1GB ram + raid array + IIS
webbench... 4000 transactions per second...

FreeBSD.. Identical hardware..
1450 transactions per seccond
Linux: 2000 per second
Solaris86  6000 per second


With Netbench:
NT blows us away.
(we're talking an order of magnitude faster)
I'm not going ot give real numbers as I don't have them readily at hand
but they are something like 12MB/Sec for FreeBSD vs 90 MB/sec for NT and
120MB/sec for linux. Matt has some patches that raise the 12 to 35 and
kirk has some changes that may raise the numbers to 70 or more,
and John has some patches that may add more again, but it's all theory,
and some of the patches have had less results than we expected.

With Uniprocessor things are a lot more equal.
but we still suck on netbench.
 
This is due to the exact form of netbench which is exactly nonoptimal for
FreeBSD.

Also becaosue of the GKL (Giant Kernel Lock) (see Solaris's results)

Basically there are some applications and benchmarks for which FreeBSD
will really suck. We're working on them but some things are just a result
of how we do things.

So don't assume that NT figures must be bad..
we have too many weaknesses in our own code to throw stones. 

It'd be intersting to see how FreeBSD 1.1.5 would have performed on the
same tests. Sometimes we've gained in general performance but lost in
some specific cases.


julian




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Re: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isasio.c)

[Anonymous]

On Thu, 24 Jun 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> 
> 
> On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Greg Lehey wrote:
> 
> > There's a man page for it :-)
> > 
> > mdoc.samples(7).  Now tell me that that's not intuitive.
> 
> Is it just me or does everyone get a (non-fatal) error as mdoc.samples(7)
> is formatted? The perfect man page for an error as well :-)

I saw it flash by too quick to read, the first time, but when I tried to
do it step by step, so as to catch the error with |&, I couldn't detect
any error any more.

Probably because of caching, I can't see any error just running man
anymore.  Tkman, which usually shows me those transient errors, can't
see it either.

+---
Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   | communications topic, C programming, and Unix.
213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1  |
Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic and jaunt, both FreeBSD-current.
(301) 220-2114  | 
+---






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Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...)

[Anonymous]

Karl Denninger wrote:

 > I've found FreeBSD to outperform NT-anything in any task you throw at the
 > machine from web service to Samba for file and print service for PCs
 > running Windows.
 
Granted.  Perhaps we're seeing an artifact of NT's developers focussing
on optimizing their system for good benchmark performance rather than
good real-world performance.

'twill be interesting to see the offical report to find out where the
various strengths and weaknesses really are.

   -  mark




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Re: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isasio.c)

[Anonymous]

On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Chuck Robey wrote:

> I saw it flash by too quick to read, the first time, but when I tried to

People with no lag

The error is:

Usage: .Rv -std sections 2 and 3 only

> Probably because of caching, I can't see any error just running man

Yep...rm /usr/share/man/cat7/mdoc.samples.7.gz to see it again.

Andrew



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Re: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isasio.c)

[Chuck Robey]

On Thu, 24 Jun 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> 
> 
> On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Chuck Robey wrote:
> 
> > I saw it flash by too quick to read, the first time, but when I tried to
> 
> People with no lag
> 
> The error is:
> 
> Usage: .Rv -std sections 2 and 3 only

That error is funny!  It's true, .Rv -std is only valid for sections 2
and three, it says so in the man page right below the part that gives
this error!  It bothers nothing, I would leave it just as it is!

Mdoc.samples is section 7, you know 

> 
> > Probably because of caching, I can't see any error just running man
> 
> Yep...rm /usr/share/man/cat7/mdoc.samples.7.gz to see it again.
> 
> Andrew
> 
> 

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Login validation by home directory location (PAM?)

[Anonymous]

Hi,

   I have an administration problem that I'm trying to solve and
I'm looking for comments and ideas.

   I have about 6000 users in the passwd file. We have a number
of compute servers available to these users which (the boss)
wants to have allocated according to where the users home
directory is located. All the home directories are mounted
via amd on a /nfs/machine.name.domain/ mount point.

   user1:/nfs/m1/usr/home/user1
   user2:/nfs/m1/usr/home/user2
   user3:/nfs/m1/usr/home/user3


   For example, I want to allow user2 access to host server2, but
not hosts server1 or server3. I don't want to have alot of
passwd file maintenance, so I thought about modifing login
to validate on the users home directory. So, in auth_traditional(),
I check to see where the home directory is, and if it is valid
for the current machine I authorize the login, otherwise I output
an access denied msg and return failure.

   There must be a better way of doing this, but I don't see
how. I've looked at PAM, but I don't understand how I could make
this type of facility work except maybe in the pam_authenticate()
routine. However, this seems complicated compared to simply
modifying auth_traditional().


   I'd appreciate any comments from folks who have done anything
similar or used PAM to solve a related type of management issue.

Thanks!
John



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Re: Login validation by home directory location (PAM?)

[Anonymous]

On Thu, 24 Jun 1999, John W. DeBoskey wrote:

>There must be a better way of doing this, but I don't see
> how. I've looked at PAM, but I don't understand how I could make
> this type of facility work except maybe in the pam_authenticate()
> routine. However, this seems complicated compared to simply
> modifying auth_traditional().

Disclaimer: I'm only just reading about how PAM works, I haven't written any
PAM modules.

This sounds like a job for a PAM `account' module: these permit access to
resources based on non-authentication mechanisms (such as time of day, whether
you're on the system console or on the network, etc).

It shouldn't be too difficult  to write a module to permit/deny logins
based on machine name and the user home directory, or whatever. PAM being
modular, you would just insert this module into the relevant resource access
stack in the config file.

Check out the Linux-PAM documentation at
http://www.au.kernel.org/pub/linux/libs/pam/Linux-PAM-doc.tar.gz
which seems (from what I've read so far) quite good.

Kris

-
"Never criticize anybody until you have walked a mile in their shoes,
because by that time you will be a mile away and have their shoes."
-- Unknown



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Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...)

[Anonymous]

%Basically there are some applications and benchmarks for which FreeBSD

uh, "benchmarks" only, until evidence is produced otherwise.

Tuning for benchmarks has been around a long long time.

People get worked up about this because the people who give
out the money to buy the systems use benchmarks to decide
whom to give the money to.  

It's really, really stupid to rely on generic benchmarks.

But people do, anyway.  So I guess whistle and some others should
invest in tuning for the benchmarks.  Like jupiter, eh?  Or maybe
Apple.
 
But for the rest, I wouldn't panic.

In fact, there's probably some interesting kernel architecture
issues here.  Let's hear them, now!  If I wanted secrecy about
architecture details there's a shitload less time consuming
ways to do it then follow FreeBSD.

Russell




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Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...)

[Anonymous]

On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Russell L. Carter wrote:

> 
> %Basically there are some applications and benchmarks for which FreeBSD
> 
> uh, "benchmarks" only, until evidence is produced otherwise.
> 
> Tuning for benchmarks has been around a long long time.
> 
> People get worked up about this because the people who give
> out the money to buy the systems use benchmarks to decide
> whom to give the money to.  
> 
> It's really, really stupid to rely on generic benchmarks.
> 
> But people do, anyway.  So I guess whistle and some others should
> invest in tuning for the benchmarks.  Like jupiter, eh?  Or maybe
> Apple.
>  
> But for the rest, I wouldn't panic.
> 
> In fact, there's probably some interesting kernel architecture
> issues here.  Let's hear them, now!  If I wanted secrecy about
> architecture details there's a shitload less time consuming
> ways to do it then follow FreeBSD.

ok here are some of the problems..

Matt's changes allow dd to copy data at 2.5 times the rate it did before. 
I consider dd to be an application. The problem is due to resource
handling in the kernel and results in large amounts of Idle CPU time.


Another primary problem with the FreeBSD kernel (being addressed by Kirk) 
is that after writing a file, once the data has been queued for IO you
cannot read the data in that file (even though it is present) until the IO
is complete. With 64 tags, it is concievable that this could take a half
second on a modern disk. 

These are problems shown up by the benchmarks but
which can be shown to affect ordinary operations.

There are other problems related to SMP and the GKL..
e.g.. two processes cannot access buffers at the same time, even though
they are both present , because only one of them is allowed in the kernel
at a time. Therefore One processor will spend a bunch of time at idle..


 > 
> Russell
> 
> 
> 



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Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...)

[Anonymous]

%
%
%On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Russell L. Carter wrote:
%
%> 
%> %Basically there are some applications and benchmarks for which FreeBSD
%> 
%> uh, "benchmarks" only, until evidence is produced otherwise.

[...]

%ok here are some of the problems..
%
%Matt's changes allow dd to copy data at 2.5 times the rate it did before. 
%I consider dd to be an application. The problem is due to resource
%handling in the kernel and results in large amounts of Idle CPU time.

Ok, why doesn't this show up in any of the disk or network benchmarks?

%Another primary problem with the FreeBSD kernel (being addressed by Kirk) 
%is that after writing a file, once the data has been queued for IO you
%cannot read the data in that file (even though it is present) until the IO
%is complete. With 64 tags, it is concievable that this could take a half
%second on a modern disk. 

That's interesting.

%These are problems shown up by the benchmarks but
%which can be shown to affect ordinary operations.
%
%There are other problems related to SMP and the GKL..
%e.g.. two processes cannot access buffers at the same time, even though
%they are both present , because only one of them is allowed in the kernel
%at a time. Therefore One processor will spend a bunch of time at idle..

Yup.

Thanks for filling us in!

Russell




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Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...)

[Anonymous]

Julian Elischer wrote:
> 
> ok here are some of the problems..
> 
> Matt's changes allow dd to copy data at 2.5 times the rate it did before.
> I consider dd to be an application. The problem is due to resource
> handling in the kernel and results in large amounts of Idle CPU time.
> 
> Another primary problem with the FreeBSD kernel (being addressed by Kirk)
> is that after writing a file, once the data has been queued for IO you
> cannot read the data in that file (even though it is present) until the IO
> is complete. With 64 tags, it is concievable that this could take a half
> second on a modern disk.
> 
> These are problems shown up by the benchmarks but
> which can be shown to affect ordinary operations.
> 
> There are other problems related to SMP and the GKL..
> e.g.. two processes cannot access buffers at the same time, even though
> they are both present , because only one of them is allowed in the kernel
> at a time. Therefore One processor will spend a bunch of time at idle..

I think it's been pretty well known since the beginning that FreeBSD
SMP performance is nothing to cheer about.  How does FreeBSD fare 
against NT or other systems on single processor systems?

I think we call consider SMP to be a "work in progress."

-- 
   "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?"

Wes Peters Softweyr LLC
http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr  [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Microsoft performance (was: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c))

[Greg Lehey]

On Tuesday, 22 June 1999 at 23:52:25 -0700, Mike Smith wrote:
 In case FreeBSD wants to enter commercial environments, we have to behave
 like behaving in commercial environments.
>>>
>>> Ok, so let's follow Microsoft's industry-leading documentation standards.
>>
>> He said "commercial", not "toy".
>
> Given that I've just spent a very unhappy couple of weeks demonstrating
> that this "toy" you're referring to outperforms us by a factor of
> anything from 3 to 10 on a range of basic benchmarks,

Really?  This is so different from anything I've heard that I'm
astounded.  How about some details?

> and has hundreds of developer-oriented books on the shelves in every
> major bookstore in the developed world, I think your position is
> perhaps slightly less than tenable here.

If that's a given, yes.

> But Mark illustrates my point perfectly; developers don't write
> documentation.  That's what camp followers are for.  So far, we have
> the ones that whine about the loot and throw mud at us when we march
> too slowly, but not enough of the ones that sew our banners, mend our
> pots and pans, or teach our version of the gospel to the heathens we
> subdue.

You can never get enough of them.

Greg
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Re: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c)

[Hellmuth Michaelis]

Re: [DISKLABEL FRAGGED] Clues requested... ;)

[Josef Karthauser]

On Wed, Jun 23, 1999 at 12:24:07AM -0600, Warner Losh wrote:
> In message <19990621083803.m95...@pavilion.net> Josef Karthauser writes:
> : The data on the disk isn't crucial, I can rebuild the system if necessary, 
> but
> : it seems that maybe I can spend less time writing a recovery tool than it 
> would
> : take to start from scratch.
> 
> I have a program that searches the cylinder groups for signatures and
> tries to reconstruct a disk label (actually, it gives you the
> information you need to do that.  I can dig it up if you like.

Niall Smart has already sent me his.
Thanks anyway,
Joe
-- 
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Technical Manager   Viagra for your server (http://www.uk.freebsd.org)
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Re: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c)

[Mike Smith]

> >From the keyboard of Warner Losh:
> 
> > ls /usr/share/man/man9 | egrep 
> > 
> > bus_generic_attach.9.gz
> > bus_generic_detach.9.gz
> [...]
> 
> I know. I just don't get an idea of the concept. Or am i missing something
> here (something like a meta-manpage or a general description containing
> pointers to the technical details to the already-being-there man-pages) ?

I rest my case.

-- 
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\\  of the man.   \\  msm...@freebsd.org
\\-- Joseph Merrick   \\  msm...@cdrom.com




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Re: CDROM drive doesn't probe if no CD present [Was:cannot mount cd indicates bad ide cd drive - replace?]

[Soren Schmidt]

It seems Doug White wrote:
> I'm lofting this up on -hackers to get the attention of the ATAPI CD
> driver programmer -- Soren, you still around?  Take a look at this.

I'm here alright :)
Sounds like the drive has a firmwarebug, If you are running -current
try the ata driver instead, and let me know how that turns out...

-Søren

> On Tue, 22 Jun 1999, Woody Carey wrote:
> 
> > Ok, here is some more information:
> > 
> > Here is the behavior when there is no cd in the drive at bootup [reboot,
> > actually]
> > ^M^[[Kmyname# mount /cdrom
> > cd9660: Input/output error
> > myname# dmesg
> 
> [...]
> 
> > wdc0: unit 1 (atapi): , removable, accel, dma, iordy
> > acd0: drive speed 0 - 4125KB/sec, 128KB cache
> > acd0: supported read types: CD-R, CD-RW, CD-DA
> > acd0: Audio: play, 255 volume levels
> > acd0: Mechanism: ejectable tray
> > acd0: Medium: no/blank disc inside, unlocked 
> 
> > and here is the dmesg output and mount output with a cd in the drive at
> > boot:
> > 
> > myname# dmesg
> [...]
> > wdc0: unit 1 (atapi): , removable, accel, dma, iordy
> > acd0: drive speed 4125KB/sec, 128KB cache
> > acd0: supported read types: CD-R, CD-RW, CD-DA
> > acd0: Audio: play, 255 volume levels
> > acd0: Mechanism: ejectable tray
> > acd0: Medium: CD-ROM 120mm data disc loaded, unlocked
> 
> > myname# mount /cdrom 
> > 
> > There was some success message on the console after this mount
> > indicating success.
> > It did not appear in this script output, obviously.  
> 
> Bizarre.  That may be a driver bug or your drive is getting into an
> inconsistent state if it doesn't boot with a CD present.
> 
> What brand/model of CD drive is it?
> 
> Doug White   
> Internet:  dwh...@resnet.uoregon.edu| FreeBSD: The Power to Serve
> http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dwhite| www.freebsd.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 



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Re: Inetd and wrapping.

[Sheldon Hearn]

On Tue, 22 Jun 1999 18:18:34 -0400, John Baldwin wrote:

> But if I want to log *all* connections to service foo, but not bar, I
> could not use tcpd for foo and and bar by itself and achieve that, so
> you are removing some configurability.  If very few people use this
> extra configurability and if it is a pain to add it in, then I guess
> it's no real big deal.

I used to pride myself in my communication skills, but I'm starting to
doubt myself. :-)

My concern is that what you want introduces duplicate functionality. I'm
not denying that you can't do exactly the same things with inetd that
you could with tcpd, but that's to be expected.

So far, the mail that I've received which has requested per-case
exclusion options has been motivated by two concerns:

1) Performance.

   I think we're all clear now that exclusion options will not
   introduce a significant performance gain. We've already
   scored our performance gain by obviating an exec on tcpd.

2) Logging.

   I understand that folks want to be able to have their logs
   look the same as they did when tcpd was in use. That's
   already not possible, since the wrapping-related messages you
   see come from inetd[pid] and not tcpd[pid].

   I believe that you can have all the messages you used to get
   going to all the places it used to go, but now using
   different configuration. Now you should use the
   hosts_options(5) "severity" option to assign a syslog
   selector to the messages generated for a service and tune
   syslog.conf to get messages to the right log destinations.

It's critical that folks understand that built-in wrapping in inetd is
not the same as inetd passing the job of wrapping to a program called
tcpd. Something different is happening in each case. It just so happens
that the two cases share a common goal.

When you say you want "functionality that exists with TCP wrappers", I
think you mean "identical semantics to those used with tcpd". You can't
have it, it's that simple.

What you should be able to have is the same functionality as was
available when using tcpd. I don't think the fact that you may need to
set things up differently to achieve the same results as you had before
isn't a serious problem, because you're doing a different thing now.

Hopefully this clarifies what's going on in my head. :-)

Later,
Sheldon.


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USB scanners?

[Greg Lehey]

Does anybody have a USB scanner running under FreeBSD, or know how to
get one running?  I'm prepared to do some work, but I'd like to know I
had some chance of success.

Greg
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Re: USB scanners?

[Nick Hibma]

No one I know off. And I don't know of a scanner that we could easily
support. It might be that there are scanners that work through the Mass
Storage class specification (converted SCSI scanners).

If you have a scanner run the usb_dump utility available from

http://www.etla.net/~n_hibma/usb/usb_dump.c

and send me the output, so we can figure out what interfaces and classes
it supports. 

Nick

On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Greg Lehey wrote:

 > Does anybody have a USB scanner running under FreeBSD, or know how to
 > get one running?  I'm prepared to do some work, but I'd like to know I
 > had some chance of success.
 > 
 > Greg
 > --
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 > 
 > 
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 > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
 > 
 > 

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Re: USB scanners?

[Greg Lehey]

On Wednesday, 23 June 1999 at 11:09:50 +0200, Nick Hibma wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Greg Lehey wrote:
>
>> Does anybody have a USB scanner running under FreeBSD, or know how to
>> get one running?  I'm prepared to do some work, but I'd like to know I
>> had some chance of success.
>
> No one I know off. And I don't know of a scanner that we could easily
> support. It might be that there are scanners that work through the Mass
> Storage class specification (converted SCSI scanners).

*sigh* that's what I was afraid you'd say.

> If you have a scanner run the usb_dump utility available from
>
>   http://www.etla.net/~n_hibma/usb/usb_dump.c
>
> and send me the output, so we can figure out what interfaces and classes
> it supports.

No, I don't have one yet.  I was thinking of buying a scanner, and it
seemed to be a logical thing to buy a USB scanner and write a driver
for FreeBSD.

I suppose I could contact all the scanner manufacturers and ask for
programming docco.  Does anybody have any leads?

Greg
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Re: USB scanners?

[Luigi Rizzo]

> No, I don't have one yet.  I was thinking of buying a scanner, and it
> seemed to be a logical thing to buy a USB scanner and write a driver
> for FreeBSD.
> 
> I suppose I could contact all the scanner manufacturers and ask for
> programming docco.  Does anybody have any leads?

this is a painful road in my experience. I suggest that you look at the
SANE web page and see if there are pointers to documentation.

HP has some documentation of the language (SCL ?) used by its SCSI
scanners but i don't know to what degree it applies to non-SCSI
units.

cheers
luigi
---+-
  Luigi RIZZO, lu...@iet.unipi.it  . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione
  http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/  . Universita` di Pisa
  TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy)

  http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ngc99/
  First International Workshop on Networked Group Communication  
---+-


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Re: [usb-bsd] Re: USB scanners?

[Nick Hibma]

 > No, I don't have one yet.  I was thinking of buying a scanner, and it
 > seemed to be a logical thing to buy a USB scanner and write a driver
 > for FreeBSD.
 > 
 > I suppose I could contact all the scanner manufacturers and ask for
 > programming docco.  Does anybody have any leads?

Some guy from HP promised to send me some feedback on a cheapo HP
scanner I have, but so far no luck. No one has (been) proded so far I
think.

Nick



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Re: USB scanners?

[Nick Hibma]

Where is this docu available?

 > this is a painful road in my experience. I suggest that you look at the
 > SANE web page and see if there are pointers to documentation.
 > 
 > HP has some documentation of the language (SCL ?) used by its SCSI
 > scanners but i don't know to what degree it applies to non-SCSI
 > units.
 > 
 >  cheers
 >  luigi
 > ---+-
 >   Luigi RIZZO, lu...@iet.unipi.it  . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione
 >   http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/  . Universita` di Pisa
 >   TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy)
 > 
 >http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ngc99/
 >   First International Workshop on Networked Group Communication  
 > ---+-
 > 
 > 
 > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org
 > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
 > 
 > 

-- 
ISIS/STA, T.P.270, Joint Research Centre, 21020 Ispra, Italy



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Re: USB scanners?

[Bodo Rueskamp]

> Does anybody have a USB scanner running under FreeBSD, or know how to
> get one running?  I'm prepared to do some work, but I'd like to know I
> had some chance of success.

I have a HP ScanJet 5200C and would like to write a driver for it.
Can please someone give me pointers to USB documents? I'm writing
device drivers and protocol engines for ISDN and H.323 but USB is
a new area for me.

; Bodo

-- 
Bodo Rüskamp, b...@rueskamp.com, 51°55' N 7°41' E
(1) Elvis is alive.
(2) Dinosaurs too. 
(3) The next millenium starts on January 1st 2000.


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Re: USB scanners?

[Nick Hibma]

 > I have a HP ScanJet 5200C and would like to write a driver for it.
 > Can please someone give me pointers to USB documents? I'm writing
 > device drivers and protocol engines for ISDN and H.323 but USB is
 > a new area for me.


USB home page:

http://www.usb.org/
(developers section)

USB for FreeBSD home page:

http://www.etla.net/~n_hibma/usb/usb.pl

FYI: I am currently writing a driver for the 3COM USB modem (5605) and
the 3COM USB ISDN-TA (Andorra, will come out later this year). These
will support the AT interface nothing else yet. 

Nick


 > 
 > ; Bodo
 > 
 > -- 
 > Bodo Rüskamp, b...@rueskamp.com, 51°55' N 7°41' E
 > (1) Elvis is alive.
 > (2) Dinosaurs too. 
 > (3) The next millenium starts on January 1st 2000.
 > 
 > 
 > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org
 > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
 > 
 > 

-- 
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Re: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c)

[Greg Black]

>  > > And as to the author: Writing docu while you are implementing something
>  > > might work in a commercial environment where you want to be able to
>  > > market something before it's sell-by date, but for hobbiests who
>  > > basically spend the odd evening doing something, it is too much hassle.
>  > 
>  > In case FreeBSD wants to enter commercial environments, we have to behave
>  > like behaving in commercial environments.
>  
> Ok, so let's follow Microsoft's industry-leading documentation standards.

That remark is content-free for all of us who never read MS
documentation.

-- 
Greg Black --  or 
Fight censorship in Australia: 



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Re: Serial Console Wierdness

[Bob Bishop]

Hi,

At 19:37 22/06/99 -0500, Chris Csanady wrote:
>"Bill G." wrote:
>> 
>> I got a serial console working on COM2, to which I have connected
>> another FreeBSD box.  I connect with 'cu' fine, but I'm running into
>> a couple of problems which I haven't been able to find and answer
>> for.
>> 
>> o  When I connect, when the machine is first turned on, I get
>>disconnected twice during the boot up sequence (cu reports
>>Got hangup signal) -- looks like when the sio1 device is
>>probed, and also when getty runs.
>
>This happens when the serial chip gets reset, and the DCD line
>goes low for a moment.  [etc]

Some buggy UARTs drop control lines when the baud rate is set, even if it's
being set to the current value. There used (eons ago) to be a patch for
this (don't set the baud rate if it's already the desired value); someone
who knows the driver better than I do should check that it's not still a
problem.

--
Bob Bishop  +44 118 977 4017
r...@gid.co.uk  fax +44 118 989 4254 (0800-1800 UK)


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Re: USB scanners?

[Luigi Rizzo]

> No one I know off. And I don't know of a scanner that we could easily
> support. It might be that there are scanners that work through the Mass
> Storage class specification (converted SCSI scanners).
> 
> If you have a scanner run the usb_dump utility available from
> 
>   http://www.etla.net/~n_hibma/usb/usb_dump.c
> 
> and send me the output, so we can figure out what interfaces and classes
> it supports. 

Nick, do you need such info for generic hw as well ? I start seeing
USP peripherals around in the office and i can briefly borrow them
and run a quick dump on my 3.2 machine.

cheers
luigi
---+-
  Luigi RIZZO, lu...@iet.unipi.it  . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione
  http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/  . Universita` di Pisa
  TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy)

  http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ngc99/
  First International Workshop on Networked Group Communication  
---+-


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Re: USB scanners?

[Luigi Rizzo]

> Where is this docu available?

it is part of the painful road. all i remember is i had to browse through the
HP webpages looking for "SCL" or "Scanner Command Language" or so after starting
with generic search for programming info on the ScanJet scanners.

the search was non trivial.

cheers
luigi

>  > this is a painful road in my experience. I suggest that you look at the
>  > SANE web page and see if there are pointers to documentation.
>  > 
>  > HP has some documentation of the language (SCL ?) used by its SCSI
>  > scanners but i don't know to what degree it applies to non-SCSI
>  > units.
>  > 
>  >cheers
>  >luigi
>  > ---+-
>  >   Luigi RIZZO, lu...@iet.unipi.it  . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione
>  >   http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/  . Universita` di Pisa
>  >   TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy)
>  > 
>  >  http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ngc99/
>  >   First International Workshop on Networked Group Communication  
>  > ---+-
>  > 
>  > 
>  > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org
>  > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
>  > 
>  > 
> 
> -- 
> ISIS/STA, T.P.270, Joint Research Centre, 21020 Ispra, Italy
> 
> 
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-multimedia" in the body of the message
> 



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Re: [usb-bsd] Re: USB scanners?

[Nick Hibma]

What kind of devices do you see showing up?

Would be a great help to get some idea of what is needed for the various
devices. For mice the support is pretty much cooked, but for example
keyboards sometimes have an extra mouse port.

Interesting would be things like camera's (still as well as video),
scanners, fingerprint readers, modems, ethernet adapters, anything
really.

I have printouts for the following devices
-mice
-BTC keyboard
-3COM modem
-HP 2700 scanner
-Labtech speakers
-3COM ethernet iface

Or hubs with extra functions (like the Entrega ones).

Nick

 > Nick, do you need such info for generic hw as well ? I start seeing
 > USP peripherals around in the office and i can briefly borrow them
 > and run a quick dump on my 3.2 machine.
 > 
 >  cheers
 >  luigi
 > ---+-
 >   Luigi RIZZO, lu...@iet.unipi.it  . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione
 >   http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/  . Universita` di Pisa
 >   TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy)
 > 
 >http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ngc99/
 >   First International Workshop on Networked Group Communication  
 > ---+-
 > 
 > 

-- 
ISIS/STA, T.P.270, Joint Research Centre, 21020 Ispra, Italy



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Re: [usb-bsd] Re: USB scanners?

[Luigi Rizzo]

> What kind of devices do you see showing up?

i have an  epson photo750 printer, and colleagues around seem to
have a few USB cameras. Haven't seen yet any USB scanner in the 
office but all new one seem to be USB so as soon as one comes
in i am sure it will be USB

cheers
luigi

---+-
  Luigi RIZZO, lu...@iet.unipi.it  . Dip. di Ing. dell'Informazione
  http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/  . Universita` di Pisa
  TEL/FAX: +39-050-568.533/522 . via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy)

  http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ngc99/
  First International Workshop on Networked Group Communication  
---+-


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Re: [usb-bsd] Re: USB scanners?

[Daniel J. O'Connor]

On 23-Jun-99 Nick Hibma wrote:
>  What kind of devices do you see showing up?
>  Would be a great help to get some idea of what is needed for the various
>  devices. For mice the support is pretty much cooked, but for example
>  keyboards sometimes have an extra mouse port.

Well I have access to a HP ScanJet at work, and USB modems are real cheap :)

IMHO its kinda pointless having USB mice/kbd since PS/2 does that pretty well,
but stuff like scanners and modems which eat serial/parallel ports are handy to
have as USB.

Not that I actually OWN any USB HW (yet :)

---
Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer
for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au
"The nice thing about standards is that there
are so many of them to choose from."
  -- Andrew Tanenbaum




pgpkEpMiZ0VPQ.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c)

[Tim Vanderhoek]

[Cc: line trimmed dramatically]

On Tue, Jun 22, 1999 at 11:52:25PM -0700, Mike Smith wrote:
> 
> Given that I've just spent a very unhappy couple of weeks demonstrating 
> that this "toy" you're referring to outperforms us by a factor of 
> anything from 3 to 10 on a range of basic benchmarks, and has hundreds 

Hmm...  You were doing something with Mindcraft, right?  Have the
results been officially released?  In a grand sweeping statement, can
you say how Linux did?


-- 
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Re: vi(1) is for whimps

[Bill Fumerola]

On 22 Jun 1999, Jesus Monroy wrote:

> vi(1) is for whimps
> http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lab/1986/viforwhimps.html

As long as you're critiquing people for what you called (paraphrased) "a
smiley that made you sound insincere", I guess I'll point out that
the word is "wimps".


- bill fumerola - bi...@chc-chimes.com - BF1560 - computer horizons corp -
- ph:(800) 252-2421 - bfume...@computerhorizons.com - bi...@freebsd.org  -





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Re: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c)

[David Wolfskill]

>Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 09:12:12 +0300 (EEST)
>From: Taavi Talvik 

>If you write man pages first time, it is quite close to clack magic.

It may seem that way (ref. Arthur C. Clark), but I respectfully
disagree.

>It would be really nice if someone comfortant with troff/nroff etc.
>would make Handbook page describing how to get started with it.
>Maybe even templates or script generating page sceletion and pointers to
>them under some handbook entry

When I have written man pages (for internal scripts & things -- the only
thing I've been able to contribute back to the community of late was a
small patch to amd (libamu/mount_fs.c), and that didn't warrant any man
page changes), I've picked up the source for some other man page that I
thought was put together well, copied it, and then started changing the
content as appropriate, with the man pages for mdoc(7) and mdoc.samples(7)
in auxiliary windows for reference... along with another window for trying
out the results.

The results have generally been quite usable, and considerably better
than nothing.

For me, there are typically two big obstacles:

* forming a clear idea of what needs to be written and

* getting started in the first place.

(Well, there's the meta-obstacle of more things to do than time to do
them, and changing priorities for many of these things.)

One of the big advantages we have is the ability to start with others'
work, and improve on it or adapt it to new uses.  (The "we" there is
somewhat context-sensitive.  In the context of the man pages, the
referent may be taken as the community of folks who have historically
had access to the troff sources for the man pages.  I am aware of only a
couple of aberrant UNIX-ish systems that only provided the pre-formatted
(and sometimes, compressed) man pages; I believe that most folks using
UNIX have had access to the "real thing" -- and certainly anyone working
with an "Open Source" UNIX(-like) system has access to them.)

Cheers,
david
-- 
David Wolfskill d...@whistle.comUNIX System 
Administrator
voice: (650) 577-7158   pager: (888) 347-0197   FAX: (650) 372-5915


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Re: [usb-bsd] Re: USB scanners?

[Nick Hibma]

 > Well I have access to a HP ScanJet at work, and USB modems are real cheap :)

FreeBSD Inc. and 3Com give them away for free lately...


 > 
 > IMHO its kinda pointless having USB mice/kbd since PS/2 does that pretty 
 > well,
 > but stuff like scanners and modems which eat serial/parallel ports are handy 
 > to
 > have as USB.
 > 
 > Not that I actually OWN any USB HW (yet :)
 > 
 > ---
 > Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer
 > for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au
 > "The nice thing about standards is that there
 > are so many of them to choose from."
 >   -- Andrew Tanenbaum
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 

-- 
ISIS/STA, T.P.270, Joint Research Centre, 21020 Ispra, Italy



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.so versions

[Max Khon]

hi, there!

sorry if this question is not for -hackers

I have some program that loads some .so via dlopen (ELF)
and the looks up some symbols in that .so (functions) and calls that
functions (with some known ABI).

There are two problems with this:
- how to check ABI version for program and .so (to be sure that ABI
version used by program and implemented in .so are the same)
- how to reload foo.so safely. i.e. if there were any errors while
reloading foo.so the program should be able to run with previously loaded
version of foo.so (symbols obtained from previous load of foo.so should
not be lost).

/fjoe



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NIS Question

[Nick LoPresti]

Here's my situation:

1.  I would like to set up NIS on my network.
2.  I have one FreeBSD system(2.2.6)
3.  I have many other flavors of Unix on this network
4.  I would like the FreeBSD system to export it's passwd and group files to
the other machines

How do I achieve this?  Do I just run ypserv & ypbind?   Any FAQ's around???

Thanx up front!



Nick
n...@chromatix.com
Web Page: http://www.lopresti.dhs.org/users/nick



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Re: Serial Console Wierdness

[Bill G]

Followup to my original post, and to the replies.

I am now using kermit -- which works great (better than having to reconnect
with cu all the time).

I was able to get rid of the garbage (anytime output scrolled past the end
of the screen[24 lines]), by using a different terminal program.  I was
using plain old xterm, I fired up Eterm - and it works without a hitch.

Also, I did re-compile and am now successfully connecting at 115200.

Bill

>I got a serial console working on COM2, to which I have connected
>another FreeBSD box.  I connect with 'cu' fine, but I'm running into
>a couple of problems which I haven't been able to find and answer
>for.
>
>o  When I connect, when the machine is first turned on, I get
>   disconnected twice during the boot up sequence (cu reports
>   Got hangup signal) -- looks like when the sio1 device is
>   probed, and also when getty runs.
>
>o  9600 was rather slow, so I changed it to 115200, which worked,
>   however I had a few problems with terminal display -- any
>   output that scrolls down past the bottom of the screen gets
>   'garbled'.  (IE, I run clear; ls -l /  -- the first 23 lines
>   look ok then it gets messed up).  Same results from console
>   mode of my client machine and from an xterm.  I thought that
>   115200 might be too fast, so I slowed it down to 38400, but
>   same trouble.  I'm not sure if this occured at 9600.



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Difference between msync() and fsync()

[Zhihui Zhang]

After we mmap a file, we can write back the dirty pages of the file either
by calling msync() or fsync(). After reading the source code, it seems to
me that they actually does the same thing.  msync() will eventually call
VOP_FSYNC() as fsync() does. Since msync() has already call the routine
vm_object_page_clean() to write back the dirty pages of the file,
VOP_FSYNC() really does not have much left to do except update the inode. 

So is there any real differnce between msync() and fsync() on mmapped
files? Or are they simply provided to do the same thing in an alternate
way?

Thanks for any help.

--
Zhihui Zhang.  Please visit http://www.freebsd.org
--



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Re: Difference between msync() and fsync()

[Ronald G. Minnich]

You should first check out how msync/fsync work on something like solaris,
since every time I've checked for the last five years or so no version of
bsd has really got it working right (although netbsd + UVM may finally
have it).

To observe msync/fsync in action use tcpdump to watch a host as it does
msync/fsync on an nfs-mounted file system. You can tell by the NFS packets
what's actually going on. Be sure to do msync on partial mapped ranges,
not simple msync's of the whole region, as well as on dirty pages, clean
pages, etc. Obviously for clean pages you should see no traffic when the
msync is called, and you should see traffic when the page is referenced
again. I've never had this latter test work on freebsd, and lots of other
os'es. The only OS it ever really worked correctly on is sunos/solaris.

You can search old archives for a long message from me (ca. 1995?) about
how msync doesn't work right on freebsd.

ron




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Connect and so on..

[Dan Seguin]

Hi All.

I'm trying to create a system call that will burst a (pseudo) quick tcp
message out to a remote host every time that it is called. I've got the
system call all worked out as a kld, it loads and restores without a
hitch.

I use the calling proc's table as it is passed to the system call, and am
trying to call socket and connect as if the user process originally called
them one by one (from userland syscall 97 and 98). I seem to be getting
the correct behaviour from socket, but the connect call fails. After
DDB'ing and breaking on the call to connect, it appears to fail at copyin
with an EFAULT (invalid address). Call stack: copyin from getsockaddr from
connect. What am I missing here, and/or what incorrect assumptions have I
made? I'm including the actual system call function below.

Thanks!

Dan

P.S. I test the system call from userland with a small C prog that uses
syscall().

 CODE starts 

static int init_comms(p, uap)
struct proc *p;
register struct nosys_args *uap;
{
  int sockfd1, stat; 
  struct socket_args socket_uap;
  struct connect_args connect_uap;
  static struct sockaddr_in servaddr;
 
  socket_uap.domain = PF_LOCAL;
  socket_uap.type = SOCK_STREAM;
  socket_uap.protocol = 0; 

  printf("\ninit_comms: proc -> pid: %d\n", (int) p->p_pid);

  stat = socket(p, &socket_uap);
 
  sockfd1 = p->p_retval[0];
 
  bzero(&servaddr, sizeof(servaddr));
  
  servaddr.sin_family = AF_LOCAL;
  servaddr.sin_port   = htons(13);
  servaddr.sin_len= sizeof servaddr;
  

 if ( inet_aton((char *) "127.0.0.1", &servaddr.sin_addr) <= 0 )
printf("\ninet_aton failed.\n");
  
   
  printf("\nservaddr: %x\n", servaddr.sin_addr.s_addr);
  
  /* Prints 17e */
  
  connect_uap.s = sockfd1;
  connect_uap.name = (caddr_t) &servaddr;
  connect_uap.namelen = sizeof servaddr;
  
  stat = 0;
  stat = connect(p, &connect_uap);
  
  printf("\nConnect Stat: %d\n", stat);
  
  /* Prints 14 (EFAULT) */
  
  return 0;
 
}

- Code Ends ---



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Re: Microsoft performance (was: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c))

[Nik Clayton]

On Wed, Jun 23, 1999 at 04:39:28PM +0930, Greg Lehey wrote:
> > But Mark illustrates my point perfectly; developers don't write
> > documentation.  That's what camp followers are for.  So far, we have
> > the ones that whine about the loot and throw mud at us when we march
> > too slowly, but not enough of the ones that sew our banners, mend our
> > pots and pans, or teach our version of the gospel to the heathens we
> > subdue.
> 
> You can never get enough of them.

And you don't get them by calling them "camp followers" either.

You get them by supporting them.  Documentation doesn't spring out of 
thin air.  If (to pick an example) the new syscons stuff[1] is undocumented
then someone's got to document it.

Right now, that can only be done by the original developers.  In three
month's time we might have enough people who have written code with it
that they could do it.

And in a year's time we might have someone who's been diligently 
following the mailing lists and has managed to piece something together
based on what they've soon.  Or who has been forced to use this mass of
undocumented code[2], worked out how it works, *and* taken the time to
write the documentation.

So, when do you want useful documentation?

N

[1]  Chosen at random.  I haven't looked at it, so have no idea how clear
 or easy to follow the syscons code is.

[2]  See footnote 1 again.
-- 
 [intentional self-reference] can be easily accommodated using a blessed,
 non-self-referential dummy head-node whose own object destructor severs
 the links.
-- Tom Christiansen in <37514...@cs.colorado.edu>


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Re: Connect and so on..

[Brian F. Feldman]

On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Dan Seguin wrote:

> 
> 
> Hi All.
> 
> I'm trying to create a system call that will burst a (pseudo) quick tcp
> message out to a remote host every time that it is called. I've got the
> system call all worked out as a kld, it loads and restores without a
> hitch.

Good, you're mostly there then!

> 
> I use the calling proc's table as it is passed to the system call, and am
> trying to call socket and connect as if the user process originally called
> them one by one (from userland syscall 97 and 98). I seem to be getting
> the correct behaviour from socket, but the connect call fails. After
> DDB'ing and breaking on the call to connect, it appears to fail at copyin
> with an EFAULT (invalid address). Call stack: copyin from getsockaddr from
> connect. What am I missing here, and/or what incorrect assumptions have I
> made? I'm including the actual system call function below.

copyin() is done to get the sockaddr from the connect call. A copyin() is a 
user-space
to kernel-space memory copy, so you have a problem in your code (I'll point out 
where
below).

> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Dan
> 
> P.S. I test the system call from userland with a small C prog that uses
> syscall().
> 
>  CODE starts 
> 
> static int init_comms(p, uap)
> struct proc *p;
> register struct nosys_args *uap;
> {
>   int sockfd1, stat; 
>   struct socket_args socket_uap;
>   struct connect_args connect_uap;
>   static struct sockaddr_in servaddr;

This needs to be a valid structure in USER space, not kernel.

>  
>   socket_uap.domain = PF_LOCAL;
>   socket_uap.type = SOCK_STREAM;
>   socket_uap.protocol = 0; 
> 
>   stat = socket(p, &socket_uap);
if (stat)
return stat;
>  
>   sockfd1 = p->p_retval[0];
>  
>   bzero(&servaddr, sizeof(servaddr));
>   
>   servaddr.sin_family = AF_LOCAL;
>   servaddr.sin_port   = htons(13);
>   servaddr.sin_len= sizeof servaddr;
>   
> 
>  if ( inet_aton((char *) "127.0.0.1", &servaddr.sin_addr) <= 0 )
This is a bogus cast. const char * to char *?
> printf("\ninet_aton failed.\n");
So return EINVAL.
>   
>
>   printf("\nservaddr: %x\n", servaddr.sin_addr.s_addr);
AHEM! Why??
>   
>   /* Prints 17e */

Try using servaddr.sin_addr.saddr = 0;

>   
>   connect_uap.s = sockfd1;
>   connect_uap.name = (caddr_t) &servaddr;

That's the problem. It needs to point to (say) uap->servaddr;

>   connect_uap.namelen = sizeof servaddr;
>   
>   stat = 0;
>   stat = connect(p, &connect_uap);
>   
>   printf("\nConnect Stat: %d\n", stat);
>   
Take that out.
>   /* Prints 14 (EFAULT) */
>   
>   return 0;
return stat instead. The standard is to use a variable named "error".
>  
> }
> 
> - Code Ends ---
> 
> 
> 
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> 
Note that I haven't checked the correctness of the code other than a quick 
glance.
These errors are real, though.

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Re: Microsoft performance (was: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c))

[Chuck Robey]

On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Nik Clayton wrote:

[deleted cvs-all from the list of cc's, how'd it get there?

> On Wed, Jun 23, 1999 at 04:39:28PM +0930, Greg Lehey wrote:
> > > But Mark illustrates my point perfectly; developers don't write
> > > documentation.  That's what camp followers are for.  So far, we have
> > > the ones that whine about the loot and throw mud at us when we march
> > > too slowly, but not enough of the ones that sew our banners, mend our
> > > pots and pans, or teach our version of the gospel to the heathens we
> > > subdue.
> > 
> > You can never get enough of them.
> 
> And you don't get them by calling them "camp followers" either.

But one thing I like is, although FreeBSD *does* try to appease user
demands, it's controlled by programmers, not users, so if something is
a technically extemely evil idea, no matter how the masses yell for it,
it will NOT happen.

We want to listen to our users, we don't want to disparage them, but we
sure don't want to "sell our souls" to the masses either.  FreeBSD is
technical, and we want it to stay that way.  If we can be smart and form
something that everyone else likes, that's also very good, but not the
first priority, I think.

Making something we are all proud of, that's what keeps programmers
here.

+---
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Re: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c)

[Mike Pritchard]

> On Wednesday, 23 June 1999 at  9:12:12 +0300, Taavi Talvik wrote:
> > On Tue, 22 Jun 1999, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote:
> > If you write man pages first time, it is quite close to clack magic.
> > It would be really nice if someone comfortant with troff/nroff etc.
> > would make Handbook page describing how to get started with it.
> > Maybe even templates or script generating page sceletion and pointers to
> > them under some handbook entry
> >
> ...
> 
> There's a man page for it :-)
> 
> mdoc.samples(7).  Now tell me that that's not intuitive.

And in /usr/share/examples/mdoc there are three example templates
for section 1, 3, and 4 manual pages. 

- Sections 1, 6 and 8 are all pretty much the same (user commands, games, 
  administrator commands).
- Sections 2 and 3 are pretty much the same (system calls and library
  functions).
- Section 4 is used to describe external kernel interfaces.  The individual
  formats can vary.  The most common format is defined in example.4.
- Section 5 is used to describe file formats, and due to the individual
  requirements of each different man page, there really isn't a general
  purpose template that would cover most cases.  What I usually do for
  this section is to find another man page that I want mine to look like
  and edit it to suit my taste.
- Section 7 is for misc. documentation.  Format varys with what is being
  documented.
- Section 9 is similar to section 2, with a sprinkling of section 4
  in some cases, and then some more depending on the interface.  Again, for 
  something fancy, look for man page that has all of the different sections 
  you want in your own man page and edit to taste.

Also refer to mdoc.samples(7) and mdoc(7).  mdoc(7) briefly describes
all of the different mdoc macros.  mdoc.samples(7) describes them all, 
along with examples of how each one should be used.

As someone who has written a number of manual pages for FreeBSD, I think
that for most things the examples in /usr/share/examples/mdoc should
serve most would be man page writers fine (I use them).  For more complex
man pages, I usually just grab an existing man page and edit to tase.

-Mike
-- 
Mike Pritchard
m...@freebsd.org or m...@mpp.pro-ns.net


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Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...)

[Garance A Drosihn]

At 4:39 PM +0930 6/23/99, Greg Lehey wrote:
>On Tuesday, 22 June 1999 at 23:52:25 -0700, Mike Smith wrote:
>> [someone said]
>>| [someone said]
>>|> Ok, so let's follow Microsoft's industry-leading documentation
>>|> standards.
>>|
>>| He said "commercial", not "toy".
>>
>> Given that I've just spent a very unhappy couple of weeks
>> demonstrating that this "toy" you're referring to outperforms
>> us by a factor of anything from 3 to 10 on a range of basic
>> benchmarks,
>
> Really?  This is so different from anything I've heard that I'm
> astounded.  How about some details?

I also found Mike's comment on performance interesting.  I assume
he's talking about system performance, and not documentation
performance.  Was this when testing WinNT-2000, or just the latest
service pack on WinNT 4?

---
Garance Alistair Drosehn   =   g...@eclipse.acs.rpi.edu
Senior Systems Programmer  or  dro...@rpi.edu
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute


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ispell(1) is for WIMPs (was Re: vi(1) is for whimps)

[Wes Peters]

Bill Fumerola wrote:
> 
> On 22 Jun 1999, Jesus Monroy wrote:
> 
> > vi(1) is for whimps
> > http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lab/1986/viforwhimps.html
> 
> As long as you're critiquing people for what you called (paraphrased) "a
> smiley that made you sound insincere", I guess I'll point out that
> the word is "wimps".

If you're going to stand on a soap box and preach, you should 
probably make sure the lables on the soap box aren't contradicting
your message.

-- 
   "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?"

Wes Peters Softweyr LLC
http://www.softweyr.com/~softweyr  w...@softweyr.com


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Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...)

[Brian F. Feldman]

On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Garance A Drosihn wrote:

> At 4:39 PM +0930 6/23/99, Greg Lehey wrote:
> >On Tuesday, 22 June 1999 at 23:52:25 -0700, Mike Smith wrote:
> >> [someone said]
> >>| [someone said]
> >>|> Ok, so let's follow Microsoft's industry-leading documentation
> >>|> standards.
> >>|
> >>| He said "commercial", not "toy".
> >>
> >> Given that I've just spent a very unhappy couple of weeks
> >> demonstrating that this "toy" you're referring to outperforms
> >> us by a factor of anything from 3 to 10 on a range of basic
> >> benchmarks,
> >
> > Really?  This is so different from anything I've heard that I'm
> > astounded.  How about some details?
> 
> I also found Mike's comment on performance interesting.  I assume
> he's talking about system performance, and not documentation
> performance.  Was this when testing WinNT-2000, or just the latest
> service pack on WinNT 4?

s/interesting/unbelievable/g and you've got my reaction. This makes so little
sense that I can't even imagine it.

> 
> ---
> Garance Alistair Drosehn   =   g...@eclipse.acs.rpi.edu
> Senior Systems Programmer  or  dro...@rpi.edu
> Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
> 
> 
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> 

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 FreeBSD: The Power to Serve!_ __ | _ \._ \ |) |
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Re: ispell(1) is for WIMPs (was Re: vi(1) is for whimps)

[Brian F. Feldman]

This belongs in freebsd-chat, if anywhere.

 Brian Fundakowski Feldman  _ __ ___   ___ ___ ___  
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Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...)

[Karl Denninger]

On Wed, Jun 23, 1999 at 11:24:03PM -0400, Brian F. Feldman wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Garance A Drosihn wrote:
> 
> > At 4:39 PM +0930 6/23/99, Greg Lehey wrote:
> > >On Tuesday, 22 June 1999 at 23:52:25 -0700, Mike Smith wrote:
> > >> [someone said]
> > >>| [someone said]
> > >>|> Ok, so let's follow Microsoft's industry-leading documentation
> > >>|> standards.
> > >>|
> > >>| He said "commercial", not "toy".
> > >>
> > >> Given that I've just spent a very unhappy couple of weeks
> > >> demonstrating that this "toy" you're referring to outperforms
> > >> us by a factor of anything from 3 to 10 on a range of basic
> > >> benchmarks,
> > >
> > > Really?  This is so different from anything I've heard that I'm
> > > astounded.  How about some details?
> > 
> > I also found Mike's comment on performance interesting.  I assume
> > he's talking about system performance, and not documentation
> > performance.  Was this when testing WinNT-2000, or just the latest
> > service pack on WinNT 4?
> 
> s/interesting/unbelievable/g and you've got my reaction. This makes so little
> sense that I can't even imagine it.

Me too.

I've found FreeBSD to outperform NT-anything in any task you throw at the
machine from web service to Samba for file and print service for PCs
running Windows.

Its more stable too; the stability is a free "bonus" that comes at no
extra charge :-).

--
-- 
Karl Denninger (k...@denninger.net)  Web: fathers.denninger.net
I ain't even *authorized* to speak for anyone other than myself, so give
up now on trying to associate my words with any particular organization.


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Re: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c)

[andrew]

On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Greg Lehey wrote:

> There's a man page for it :-)
> 
> mdoc.samples(7).  Now tell me that that's not intuitive.

Is it just me or does everyone get a (non-fatal) error as mdoc.samples(7)
is formatted? The perfect man page for an error as well :-)

Andrew



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Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...)

[Julian Elischer]

On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Karl Denninger wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 23, 1999 at 11:24:03PM -0400, Brian F. Feldman wrote:
> > On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Garance A Drosihn wrote:
> > 
> > > At 4:39 PM +0930 6/23/99, Greg Lehey wrote:
> > > >On Tuesday, 22 June 1999 at 23:52:25 -0700, Mike Smith wrote:
> > > >> [someone said]
> > > >>| [someone said]
> > > >>|> Ok, so let's follow Microsoft's industry-leading documentation
> > > >>|> standards.
> > > >>|
> > > >>| He said "commercial", not "toy".
> > > >>
> > > >> Given that I've just spent a very unhappy couple of weeks
> > > >> demonstrating that this "toy" you're referring to outperforms
> > > >> us by a factor of anything from 3 to 10 on a range of basic
> > > >> benchmarks,
> > > >
> > > > Really?  This is so different from anything I've heard that I'm
> > > > astounded.  How about some details?
> > > 
> > > I also found Mike's comment on performance interesting.  I assume
> > > he's talking about system performance, and not documentation
> > > performance.  Was this when testing WinNT-2000, or just the latest
> > > service pack on WinNT 4?
> > 
> > s/interesting/unbelievable/g and you've got my reaction. This makes so 
> > little
> > sense that I can't even imagine it.
> 
> Me too.
> 
> I've found FreeBSD to outperform NT-anything in any task you throw at the
> machine from web service to Samba for file and print service for PCs
> running Windows.
> 
> Its more stable too; the stability is a free "bonus" that comes at no
> extra charge :-).

I wish people wouldn't jump in with claims like this...
(not the stability part)

Ok well here are some real numbers for you..
Win NT 4processors 1GB ram + raid array + IIS
webbench... 4000 transactions per second...

FreeBSD.. Identical hardware..
1450 transactions per seccond
Linux: 2000 per second
Solaris86  6000 per second


With Netbench:
NT blows us away.
(we're talking an order of magnitude faster)
I'm not going ot give real numbers as I don't have them readily at hand
but they are something like 12MB/Sec for FreeBSD vs 90 MB/sec for NT and
120MB/sec for linux. Matt has some patches that raise the 12 to 35 and
kirk has some changes that may raise the numbers to 70 or more,
and John has some patches that may add more again, but it's all theory,
and some of the patches have had less results than we expected.

With Uniprocessor things are a lot more equal.
but we still suck on netbench.
 
This is due to the exact form of netbench which is exactly nonoptimal for
FreeBSD.

Also becaosue of the GKL (Giant Kernel Lock) (see Solaris's results)

Basically there are some applications and benchmarks for which FreeBSD
will really suck. We're working on them but some things are just a result
of how we do things.

So don't assume that NT figures must be bad..
we have too many weaknesses in our own code to throw stones. 

It'd be intersting to see how FreeBSD 1.1.5 would have performed on the
same tests. Sometimes we've gained in general performance but lost in
some specific cases.


julian




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Re: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c)

[Chuck Robey]

On Thu, 24 Jun 1999 and...@ugh.net.au wrote:

> 
> 
> On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Greg Lehey wrote:
> 
> > There's a man page for it :-)
> > 
> > mdoc.samples(7).  Now tell me that that's not intuitive.
> 
> Is it just me or does everyone get a (non-fatal) error as mdoc.samples(7)
> is formatted? The perfect man page for an error as well :-)

I saw it flash by too quick to read, the first time, but when I tried to
do it step by step, so as to catch the error with |&, I couldn't detect
any error any more.

Probably because of caching, I can't see any error just running man
anymore.  Tkman, which usually shows me those transient errors, can't
see it either.

+---
Chuck Robey | Interests include any kind of voice or data 
chu...@picnic.mat.net   | communications topic, C programming, and Unix.
213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1  |
Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic and jaunt, both FreeBSD-current.
(301) 220-2114  | 
+---






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Re: Microsoft performance (was: ...)

[Mark Newton]

Karl Denninger wrote:

 > I've found FreeBSD to outperform NT-anything in any task you throw at the
 > machine from web service to Samba for file and print service for PCs
 > running Windows.
 
Granted.  Perhaps we're seeing an artifact of NT's developers focussing
on optimizing their system for good benchmark performance rather than
good real-world performance.

'twill be interesting to see the offical report to find out where the
various strengths and weaknesses really are.

   -  mark




Mark Newton   Email:  new...@internode.com.au (W)
Network Engineer  Email:  new...@atdot.dotat.org  (H)
Internode Systems Pty Ltd Desk:   +61-8-82232999
"Network Man" - Anagram of "Mark Newton"  Mobile: +61-416-202-223


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Re: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c)

[andrew]

On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Chuck Robey wrote:

> I saw it flash by too quick to read, the first time, but when I tried to

People with no lag

The error is:

Usage: .Rv -std sections 2 and 3 only

> Probably because of caching, I can't see any error just running man

Yep...rm /usr/share/man/cat7/mdoc.samples.7.gz to see it again.

Andrew



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Re: All this and documentation too? (was: cvs commit: src/sys/isa sio.c)

[Chuck Robey]

On Thu, 24 Jun 1999 and...@ugh.net.au wrote:

> 
> 
> On Wed, 23 Jun 1999, Chuck Robey wrote:
> 
> > I saw it flash by too quick to read, the first time, but when I tried to
> 
> People with no lag
> 
> The error is:
> 
> Usage: .Rv -std sections 2 and 3 only

That error is funny!  It's true, .Rv -std is only valid for sections 2
and three, it says so in the man page right below the part that gives
this error!  It bothers nothing, I would leave it just as it is!

Mdoc.samples is section 7, you know 

> 
> > Probably because of caching, I can't see any error just running man
> 
> Yep...rm /usr/share/man/cat7/mdoc.samples.7.gz to see it again.
> 
> Andrew
> 
> 

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213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1  |
Greenbelt, MD 20770 | I run picnic and jaunt, both FreeBSD-current.
(301) 220-2114  | 
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Login validation by home directory location (PAM?)

[John W. DeBoskey]

Hi,

   I have an administration problem that I'm trying to solve and
I'm looking for comments and ideas.

   I have about 6000 users in the passwd file. We have a number
of compute servers available to these users which (the boss)
wants to have allocated according to where the users home
directory is located. All the home directories are mounted
via amd on a /nfs/machine.name.domain/ mount point.

   user1:/nfs/m1/usr/home/user1
   user2:/nfs/m1/usr/home/user2
   user3:/nfs/m1/usr/home/user3


   For example, I want to allow user2 access to host server2, but
not hosts server1 or server3. I don't want to have alot of
passwd file maintenance, so I thought about modifing login
to validate on the users home directory. So, in auth_traditional(),
I check to see where the home directory is, and if it is valid
for the current machine I authorize the login, otherwise I output
an access denied msg and return failure.

   There must be a better way of doing this, but I don't see
how. I've looked at PAM, but I don't understand how I could make
this type of facility work except maybe in the pam_authenticate()
routine. However, this seems complicated compared to simply
modifying auth_traditional().


   I'd appreciate any comments from folks who have done anything
similar or used PAM to solve a related type of management issue.

Thanks!
John



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Re: Login validation by home directory location (PAM?)

[Kris Kennaway]

On Thu, 24 Jun 1999, John W. DeBoskey wrote:

>There must be a better way of doing this, but I don't see
> how. I've looked at PAM, but I don't understand how I could make
> this type of facility work except maybe in the pam_authenticate()
> routine. However, this seems complicated compared to simply
> modifying auth_traditional().

Disclaimer: I'm only just reading about how PAM works, I haven't written any
PAM modules.

This sounds like a job for a PAM `account' module: these permit access to
resources based on non-authentication mechanisms (such as time of day, whether
you're on the system console or on the network, etc).

It shouldn't be too difficult  to write a module to permit/deny logins
based on machine name and the user home directory, or whatever. PAM being
modular, you would just insert this module into the relevant resource access
stack in the config file.

Check out the Linux-PAM documentation at
http://www.au.kernel.org/pub/linux/libs/pam/Linux-PAM-doc.tar.gz
which seems (from what I've read so far) quite good.

Kris

-
"Never criticize anybody until you have walked a mile in their shoes,
because by that time you will be a mile away and have their shoes."
-- Unknown



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