Re: Developer assessment (was Re: A bike shed ...)

[Wayne Cuddy]

On Sun, 3 Oct 1999, Mike Smith wrote:

> Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 18:08:39 -0700
> From: Mike Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Developer assessment (was Re: A bike shed ...) 
> 
> > > > As a newbie to kernel programming, who might need a little help and guidance,
> > > > the above is certainly true.  I can attest to the fact that I have a certain
> > > > reluctance to post some of my questions to this list(hackers). I  have posted
> > > > some in the past, many of which have gone unanswered, to which I know answers
> > > > exists.  This is certainly not the case in all situations.
> > > 
> > > Are you willing to accept that you may have been judged "not worth the 
> > > effort" on the content of your questions, or are we going to have 
> > Yes I am.
> 
> Cool.  Note the different between "not worth" and "never will be worth".
> 
> > > another flamewar about whether we should be opening a developers' 
> > > kindergarten?
> > Oh. Ok if this is case where are the guidelines as to what is "worth the
> > effort?" This determination is obviously relative.
> 
> Not so much "relative" as subjective (and thus impossible to document). 
> Use your common sense - if you don't get any replies, it's obvious that 
> you haven't motivated anyone to reply.  It's not that the people you're 
> trying to wish actively dislike you or want to discourage you.
> 
> > > There is no sense in wasting the time of one informed developer to help 
> > > one uninformed developer; this is a bad tradeoff unless the uninformed
> > > developer is showing signs of promise.  The only way to assess this is 
> > > to look at the questions they ask and the context they're asking them 
> > > from.  Nobody wants to answer one obvious question if there's any 
> > > chance at all that the questioner will latch onto them and demand 
> > > answers for dozens more - this isn't "helping someone", it's "doing 
> > > their work for free".
> > You are right I jumped to learning about FreeBSD kernel development, which I
> > don't get paid for in any way,  so that I could have someone else do it...
> > Try to be a little reasonable here, I would not be here if I did not want to
> > learn.  Which means doing my own work.
> 
> Exactly.  But sniping at the readership here for not answering your 
> messages, or for being continually rude isn't "doing your own work", 
> it's being childish and blind.
> 
> > I would be hard pressed to read the list for a day and not find a demeaning or
> > wasteful comment from some of the developers on this list.  So apparently some
> > people do have time negative responses.
> 
> This is a popular throwaway line, but not really accurate.
> 
> > Does a helpful response, even a "stupid" one take that much time?  I did
> > realize how busy you were.
> 
> Yes!  Buying into answering one question usefully can involve teaching 
> you a dozen things before you will understand it.  What may seem like a 
> helpful but flippant response is typically taken as an insult simply 
> because the average asker is preconditioned from hearing dribble like 
> your paragraph above into assuming that anything other than a book for 
> an answer is "dismissal".
> 
> > > So, regardless of whether you've asked a question or not, you need to 
> > > understand that the onus rests solely on yourself to pursue the answer. 
> > > They're all there in the code, where everyone else that you're asking 
> > > has already found them.
> > This is absolutely correct and in many cases the most inefficient way to go.
> 
> Crap.  It's the most _efficient_ way in terms of return on effort 
> invested. 
> 
> > It is certainly helpful to answer a question that is on the tip of one's
> > tongue rather than wading through lines of code especially if it is holding
> > up the work of others. 
> 
> You make it sound like these "answers" are three-word phrases; as 
> though someone could just say a few tiny words to you and all would be 
> clear.  If it was that simple, you'd have an answer. 
> 
> What irritates me the most is that you and others in your position 
> won't accept the fact that things are complicated.  Oh no, it has to be 
> these evil nasty people that don't want you to learn.  Yeah.  That's it.

You sure know a lot about me!  Are you making these assumptions about
me and "others like me" based on what I am posting now or previous postings?
I am really sorry you are irritated. 

> 
> Too much Joe McCarthy and the X-Files for you, I think.
Thanks I will try not to watch so much TV.

> 
> > However you are correct definitive answers are in the
> > code... all 1 million+ lines..
> 
> Correct.  Where do you think the rest of us found our answers?  What 
> makes you think we have yours?  Pass the bar or find something else 
> that you _can_ do.  I can't draw.  I'm a terrible musician.  Do I 
> complain that the artists are keeping all the secrets of easy drawing 
> to themselves?  Do I whine that nobody will just teach me how to play 
> 

Re: Developer assessment (was Re: A bike shed ...)

[Wayne Cuddy]

On Sun, 3 Oct 1999, Mike Smith wrote:

> Date: Sun, 03 Oct 1999 11:33:24 -0700
> From: Mike Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc: FreeBSD Hackers List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Developer assessment (was Re: A bike shed ...)
> 
> > As a newbie to kernel programming, who might need a little help and guidance,
> > the above is certainly true.  I can attest to the fact that I have a certain
> > reluctance to post some of my questions to this list(hackers). I  have posted
> > some in the past, many of which have gone unanswered, to which I know answers
> > exists.  This is certainly not the case in all situations.
> 
> Are you willing to accept that you may have been judged "not worth the 
> effort" on the content of your questions, or are we going to have 
Yes I am.
> another flamewar about whether we should be opening a developers' 
> kindergarten?
Oh. Ok if this is case where are the guidelines as to what is "worth the
effort?" This determination is obviously relative.
> 
> There is no sense in wasting the time of one informed developer to help 
> one uninformed developer; this is a bad tradeoff unless the uninformed
> developer is showing signs of promise.  The only way to assess this is 
> to look at the questions they ask and the context they're asking them 
> from.  Nobody wants to answer one obvious question if there's any 
> chance at all that the questioner will latch onto them and demand 
> answers for dozens more - this isn't "helping someone", it's "doing 
> their work for free".
You are right I jumped to learning about FreeBSD kernel development, which I
don't get paid for in any way,  so that I could have someone else do it...
Try to be a little reasonable here, I would not be here if I did not want to
learn.  Which means doing my own work.

I would be hard pressed to read the list for a day and not find a demeaning or
wasteful comment from some of the developers on this list.  So apparently some
people do have time negative responses.

Does a helpful response, even a "stupid" one take that much time?  I did
realize how busy you were.
> 
> So, regardless of whether you've asked a question or not, you need to 
> understand that the onus rests solely on yourself to pursue the answer. 
> They're all there in the code, where everyone else that you're asking 
> has already found them.
This is absolutely correct and in many cases the most inefficient way to go.
It is certainly helpful to answer a question that is on the tip of one's
tongue rather than wading through lines of code especially if it is holding
up the work of others. However you are correct definitive answers are in the
code... all 1 million+ lines..
> 
> -- 
> \\ Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. \\  Mike Smith
> \\ Tell him he should learn how to fish himself,  \\  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> \\ and he'll hate you for a lifetime. \\  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>

My sincere apologies if anyone feels that I am unnecessarily venting on this
list.  I will not spend any more time on this topic. 

Wayne



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Re: A bike shed (any colour will do) on greener grass...

[Wayne Cuddy]

On Sun, 3 Oct 1999, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote:

> Date: Sun, 3 Oct 1999 13:39:55 +0200
> From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Poul-Henning Kamp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: A bike shed (any colour will do) on greener grass...
> 
[]
> 
> At current, I can very much understand the reluctance of `new/young'
> coders to start work on the system only to see their efforts get
> trampled upon by `older/more experienced/more rusted shut' people who
> like it as it is and don't want innovation to hit the system, or
> otherwise don't seem to be able to offer a mentor-like/helping-hand
> function towards these new people.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven/Asmodai  asmodai(at)wxs.nl
> The BSD Programmer's Documentation Project 
> Network/Security SpecialistBSD: Technical excellence at its best
> Fame is the perfume of heroic deeds.
> 
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
>

As a newbie to kernel programming, who might need a little help and guidance,
the above is certainly true.  I can attest to the fact that I have a certain
reluctance to post some of my questions to this list(hackers). I  have posted
some in the past, many of which have gone unanswered, to which I know answers
exists.  This is certainly not the case in all situations.


Note:  I partially feel that OS band X receives a much higher level of
developer contribution than FreeBSD... This is not meant the start a flame war
or OS quality debate...

MHO 

Wayne



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Max M Queue Message Size

[Wayne Cuddy]

It appears that I can only send a maximum of 4096 bytes per message into a
SYSV Message Queue.  How do I increase this limit?


Much thanks,
Wayne





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Max M Queue Message Size

[Wayne Cuddy]

It appears that I can only send a maximum of 4096 bytes per message into a
SYSV Message Queue.  How do I increase this limit?


Much thanks,
Wayne




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fifo buffer size

[Wayne Cuddy]

How can I tell how big fifo buffers are?




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what is devfs?

[Wayne Cuddy]

In the examples device drivers I see the inclusion of devfsext.h.  I read the
README in the devfs directory but I am still a little unsure what devfs would
be used for.  Can anyone give me some examples here.  Is there any more
information pertaining to devfs?

Thanks in advance,
Wayne 




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what is devfs?

[Wayne Cuddy]

In the examples device drivers I see the inclusion of devfsext.h.  I read the
README in the devfs directory but I am still a little unsure what devfs would
be used for.  Can anyone give me some examples here.  Is there any more
information pertaining to devfs?

Thanks in advance,
Wayne 




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Re: aio_*

[Wayne Cuddy]

On Tue, 14 Sep 1999, Nik Clayton wrote:

> What we need is people like yourself, who are having to go through the 
> learning curve, to document stuff as you're finding it out.  It doesn't
> matter if your notes are a bit rough and ready, because the next person
> to use them can improve on them, and the next person, and the next person,
> and so on, until we have great kernel documentation.
> 
> Any takers?

I would be down for this especially since I need some help with the device
driver interface to the kernel.  There was a tutorial on the web site that
cannot locate any longer.  I certainly would not mind putting together a
tutorial/API doc if I could get help on some of the details.

Wayne



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Re: aio_*

[Wayne Cuddy]

On Tue, 14 Sep 1999, Nik Clayton wrote:

> What we need is people like yourself, who are having to go through the 
> learning curve, to document stuff as you're finding it out.  It doesn't
> matter if your notes are a bit rough and ready, because the next person
> to use them can improve on them, and the next person, and the next person,
> and so on, until we have great kernel documentation.
> 
> Any takers?

I would be down for this especially since I need some help with the device
driver interface to the kernel.  There was a tutorial on the web site that
cannot locate any longer.  I certainly would not mind putting together a
tutorial/API doc if I could get help on some of the details.

Wayne



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device driver interface

[Wayne Cuddy]

I am trying to understand how to integrate device drivers with the kernel.
(this is my first crack at device drivers) I have a few books on device
drivers but they are a little old and have a slightly different interface with
the kernel than FreeBSD.  I figured the best place to start would be to try to
building one of the samples.  So did I did 
>/usr/share/examples/drivers/make_device_drivers.sh WDC.  The script will
attempt to build the kernel and I get the following errors:


cc -c -O -Wreturn-type -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -Wimplicit
-Wnested-externs -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes  -Wpointer-arith
-Winline -Wuninitialized -Wformat -Wunused  -fformat-extensions -ansi
-nostdinc -I- -I. -I../.. -I/usr/include  -DKERNEL -DVM_STACK -include
opt_global.h -elf  ../../i386/isa/WCD.c
../../i386/isa/WCD.c: In function `WCDattach':
../../i386/isa/WCD.c:137: `WCDintr' undeclared (first use this function)
../../i386/isa/WCD.c:137: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
../../i386/isa/WCD.c:137: for each function it appears in.)
../../i386/isa/WCD.c: At top level:
../../i386/isa/WCD.c:177: `WCDintr' used prior to declaration
../../i386/isa/WCD.c: In function `WCDintr':
../../i386/isa/WCD.c:178: warning: unused variable `scp'
../../i386/isa/WCD.c: At top level:
../../i386/isa/WCD.c:188: conflicting types for `WCDioctl'
../../i386/isa/WCD.c:30: previous declaration of `WCDioctl'
../../i386/isa/WCD.c: In function `WCDclose':
../../i386/isa/WCD.c:226: warning: unused variable `scp'
../../i386/isa/WCD.c: In function `WCDread':
../../i386/isa/WCD.c:250: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type
../../sys/libkern.h:57: warning: inlining failed in call to `min'
../../i386/isa/WCD.c:250: warning: called from here
../../i386/isa/WCD.c:251: warning: implicit declaration of function `uiomove'
../../i386/isa/WCD.c: In function `WCDwrite':
../../i386/isa/WCD.c:267: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type
../../i386/isa/WCD.c: At top level:
../../i386/isa/WCD.c:273: conflicting types for `WCDmmap'
../../i386/isa/WCD.c:31: previous declaration of `WCDmmap'
../../i386/isa/WCD.c: In function `WCDmmap':
../../i386/isa/WCD.c:275: warning: unused variable `scp'
../../i386/isa/WCD.c: In function `WCDpoll':
../../i386/isa/WCD.c:296: warning: unused variable `scp'
../../i386/isa/WCD.c: At top level:
../../i386/isa/WCD.c:177: warning: `WCDintr' defined but not used
*** Error code 1

Why does this fail?  This script was installed of off my 3.2 cd set.

Does anyone know of an existing driver that would be a good place to start for
a newbie to understand these things?

Any and all help is appreciated,
Wayne



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device driver interface

[Wayne Cuddy]

I am trying to understand how to integrate device drivers with the kernel.
(this is my first crack at device drivers) I have a few books on device
drivers but they are a little old and have a slightly different interface with
the kernel than FreeBSD.  I figured the best place to start would be to try to
building one of the samples.  So did I did 
>/usr/share/examples/drivers/make_device_drivers.sh WDC.  The script will
attempt to build the kernel and I get the following errors:


cc -c -O -Wreturn-type -Wcomment -Wredundant-decls -Wimplicit
-Wnested-externs -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes  -Wpointer-arith
-Winline -Wuninitialized -Wformat -Wunused  -fformat-extensions -ansi
-nostdinc -I- -I. -I../.. -I/usr/include  -DKERNEL -DVM_STACK -include
opt_global.h -elf  ../../i386/isa/WCD.c
../../i386/isa/WCD.c: In function `WCDattach':
../../i386/isa/WCD.c:137: `WCDintr' undeclared (first use this function)
../../i386/isa/WCD.c:137: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
../../i386/isa/WCD.c:137: for each function it appears in.)
../../i386/isa/WCD.c: At top level:
../../i386/isa/WCD.c:177: `WCDintr' used prior to declaration
../../i386/isa/WCD.c: In function `WCDintr':
../../i386/isa/WCD.c:178: warning: unused variable `scp'
../../i386/isa/WCD.c: At top level:
../../i386/isa/WCD.c:188: conflicting types for `WCDioctl'
../../i386/isa/WCD.c:30: previous declaration of `WCDioctl'
../../i386/isa/WCD.c: In function `WCDclose':
../../i386/isa/WCD.c:226: warning: unused variable `scp'
../../i386/isa/WCD.c: In function `WCDread':
../../i386/isa/WCD.c:250: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type
../../sys/libkern.h:57: warning: inlining failed in call to `min'
../../i386/isa/WCD.c:250: warning: called from here
../../i386/isa/WCD.c:251: warning: implicit declaration of function `uiomove'
../../i386/isa/WCD.c: In function `WCDwrite':
../../i386/isa/WCD.c:267: dereferencing pointer to incomplete type
../../i386/isa/WCD.c: At top level:
../../i386/isa/WCD.c:273: conflicting types for `WCDmmap'
../../i386/isa/WCD.c:31: previous declaration of `WCDmmap'
../../i386/isa/WCD.c: In function `WCDmmap':
../../i386/isa/WCD.c:275: warning: unused variable `scp'
../../i386/isa/WCD.c: In function `WCDpoll':
../../i386/isa/WCD.c:296: warning: unused variable `scp'
../../i386/isa/WCD.c: At top level:
../../i386/isa/WCD.c:177: warning: `WCDintr' defined but not used
*** Error code 1

Why does this fail?  This script was installed of off my 3.2 cd set.

Does anyone know of an existing driver that would be a good place to start for
a newbie to understand these things?

Any and all help is appreciated,
Wayne



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Re: more info Re: how did I manage this?

[Wayne Cuddy]

On Sun, 12 Sep 1999, Chris Costello wrote:

> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 10:13:45 -0500
> From: Chris Costello <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Wayne Cuddy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: more info Re: how did I manage this?
> 
> On Sun, Sep 12, 1999, Chris Costello wrote:
> > > However, if do a 'cd \$DEST_DIR' I end up in the root directory.  If I do a
> > > 'rm $DEST_DIR/', I get 'rm: /: is a directory'.  If it can't be a hard link I
> > > have no idea what it is.
> > 
> >That's because $DEST_DIR is expanding to "/".
> 
>Oops!  No it's not.  It's expanding to nothing because it's
> unset.  See my second paragraph (sentence):
> 
> >Try unsetting that variable and then enclosing it in single
> > quotes in your rm command.
> 
> -- 
> |Chris Costello <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> |A low level language is one whose programs
> |require attention to the irrelevant.
> `--
> 
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
> 
It is not set but also it will not expand to nothing as I prefixed it with the
'\' character.  For instance if you do 'ls \$HOME' the ls command will look
for an entry of $HOME.  However I went ahead and tried the single quotes and
some more commands (output below):

>rm '$DEST_DIR'
rm: $DEST_DIR: is a directory

>ls '$DEST_DIR'
$2

Interestingly enough 2 is the inode number of both the root directory and the root
directory of the /home partition.



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Re: more info Re: how did I manage this?

[Wayne Cuddy]

On Sun, 12 Sep 1999, Chris Costello wrote:

> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 10:13:45 -0500
> From: Chris Costello 
> To: Wayne Cuddy 
> Cc: hack...@freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: more info Re: how did I manage this?
> 
> On Sun, Sep 12, 1999, Chris Costello wrote:
> > > However, if do a 'cd \$DEST_DIR' I end up in the root directory.  If I do 
> > > a
> > > 'rm $DEST_DIR/', I get 'rm: /: is a directory'.  If it can't be a hard 
> > > link I
> > > have no idea what it is.
> > 
> >That's because $DEST_DIR is expanding to "/".
> 
>Oops!  No it's not.  It's expanding to nothing because it's
> unset.  See my second paragraph (sentence):
> 
> >Try unsetting that variable and then enclosing it in single
> > quotes in your rm command.
> 
> -- 
> |Chris Costello 
> |A low level language is one whose programs
> |require attention to the irrelevant.
> `--
> 
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
> 
It is not set but also it will not expand to nothing as I prefixed it with the
'\' character.  For instance if you do 'ls \$HOME' the ls command will look
for an entry of $HOME.  However I went ahead and tried the single quotes and
some more commands (output below):

>rm '$DEST_DIR'
rm: $DEST_DIR: is a directory

>ls '$DEST_DIR'
$2

Interestingly enough 2 is the inode number of both the root directory and the 
root
directory of the /home partition.



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more info Re: how did I manage this?

[Wayne Cuddy]

On Sat, 11 Sep 1999, Chris Costello wrote:

> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 16:04:25 -0500
> From: Chris Costello <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Wayne Cuddy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: FreeBSD Hackers List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: how did I manage this? (fwd)
> 
> On Sat, Sep 11, 1999, Wayne Cuddy wrote:
> > I tried this on questions with no response and wanted give you guys a shot.
> 
> ls -li /path/to/your/alleged/hardlink
> ls -li /
> 
>Are the inode numbers the same?
> 
> > Thanks,
> > Wayne
> 
> -- 
> |Chris Costello <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> |In the field of observation, chance favors only the prepared minds.
> `---
>
Here is my directory listing:
drwxrwxr-x  3 wcuddy  wcuddy   512 Sep  5 17:29 $DEST_DIR
-rwxr-xr-x  1 wcuddy  wcuddy  2324 Sep  6 22:51 do_install.sh
-rw-rw-r--  1 wcuddy  wcuddy   533 Sep  5 21:12 file_list.txt
-rw-rw-r--  1 wcuddy  wcuddy   155 Sep  5 21:58 install.conf
-rw-rw-r--  1 wcuddy  wcuddy   145 Sep  6 22:27 post-install
-rw-rw-r--  1 wcuddy  wcuddy   144 Sep  6 22:24 pre-install

Here is the output of my mount:
/dev/da0s1a on / (asynchronous, NFS exported, local, writes: sync 26 async
22259)
/dev/da2s1e on /home (asynchronous, local, writes: sync 8 async 5181)
/dev/da1s1e on /usr (asynchronous, local, writes: sync 3 async 20654)
procfs on /proc (local)

Since /home is on a separate file system I don't think it is a hard link.
However, if do a 'cd \$DEST_DIR' I end up in the root directory.  If I do a
'rm $DEST_DIR/', I get 'rm: /: is a directory'.  If it can't be a hard link I
have no idea what it is.




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more info Re: how did I manage this?

[Wayne Cuddy]

On Sat, 11 Sep 1999, Chris Costello wrote:

> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 16:04:25 -0500
> From: Chris Costello 
> To: Wayne Cuddy 
> Cc: FreeBSD Hackers List 
> Subject: Re: how did I manage this? (fwd)
> 
> On Sat, Sep 11, 1999, Wayne Cuddy wrote:
> > I tried this on questions with no response and wanted give you guys a shot.
> 
> ls -li /path/to/your/alleged/hardlink
> ls -li /
> 
>Are the inode numbers the same?
> 
> > Thanks,
> > Wayne
> 
> -- 
> |Chris Costello 
> |In the field of observation, chance favors only the prepared minds.
> `---
>
Here is my directory listing:
drwxrwxr-x  3 wcuddy  wcuddy   512 Sep  5 17:29 $DEST_DIR
-rwxr-xr-x  1 wcuddy  wcuddy  2324 Sep  6 22:51 do_install.sh
-rw-rw-r--  1 wcuddy  wcuddy   533 Sep  5 21:12 file_list.txt
-rw-rw-r--  1 wcuddy  wcuddy   155 Sep  5 21:58 install.conf
-rw-rw-r--  1 wcuddy  wcuddy   145 Sep  6 22:27 post-install
-rw-rw-r--  1 wcuddy  wcuddy   144 Sep  6 22:24 pre-install

Here is the output of my mount:
/dev/da0s1a on / (asynchronous, NFS exported, local, writes: sync 26 async
22259)
/dev/da2s1e on /home (asynchronous, local, writes: sync 8 async 5181)
/dev/da1s1e on /usr (asynchronous, local, writes: sync 3 async 20654)
procfs on /proc (local)

Since /home is on a separate file system I don't think it is a hard link.
However, if do a 'cd \$DEST_DIR' I end up in the root directory.  If I do a
'rm $DEST_DIR/', I get 'rm: /: is a directory'.  If it can't be a hard link I
have no idea what it is.




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how did I manage this? (fwd)

[Wayne Cuddy]

I tried this on questions with no response and wanted give you guys a shot.

Thanks,
Wayne


-- Forwarded message --
Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 21:42:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Wayne Cuddy 
To: FreeBSD Questions 
Subject: how did I manage this?

I was hacking out a few install scripts for some software I wrote and I seem
to have created what seems like a hard-link to the / directory.  What did I do
and how do I remove the directory?

Thanks,
Wayne





To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message

how did I manage this? (fwd)

[Wayne Cuddy]

I tried this on questions with no response and wanted give you guys a shot.

Thanks,
Wayne


-- Forwarded message --
Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 21:42:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Wayne Cuddy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: FreeBSD Questions <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: how did I manage this?

I was hacking out a few install scripts for some software I wrote and I seem
to have created what seems like a hard-link to the / directory.  What did I do
and how do I remove the directory?

Thanks,
Wayne





To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message

Re: syslogd -a (fwd)

[Wayne Cuddy]

I had a configuration where I was logging from linux to linux which was
working.  Now I have replaced the logging system with FreeBSD 3.2.  

I started the FreeBSD syslogd like this:
syslogd -a XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX

But I see no log messages from the linux system. 


Thanks for the help.

Wayne

On Thu, 2 Sep 1999, Ben Rosengart wrote:

> Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 11:57:33 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Ben Rosengart 
> To: Wayne Cuddy 
> Cc: FreeBSD Hackers List 
> Subject: Re: syslogd -a (fwd)
> 
> On Thu, 2 Sep 1999, Wayne Cuddy wrote:
> 
> > I am attempting to use syslogd on FreeBSD to log messages from a linux 
> > syslogd
> > with little success.  Is it possible to use the FBSD syslogd to log messages
> > from other unix flavors?
> 
> Yes, absolutely.  What is the problem you're experiencing?
> 
> --
>  Ben
> 
> UNIX Systems Engineer, Skunk Group
> StarMedia Network, Inc.
> 




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syslogd -a (fwd)

[Wayne Cuddy]

I sent this to "questions" but did not a reply and figured I would give you
guys a try..


-- Forwarded message --
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 19:12:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: Wayne Cuddy 
To: FreeBSD Questions 
Subject: syslogd -a

I am attempting to use syslogd on FreeBSD to log messages from a linux syslogd
with little success.  Is it possible to use the FBSD syslogd to log messages
from other unix flavors?




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with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message

Re: syslogd -a (fwd)

[Wayne Cuddy]

I had a configuration where I was logging from linux to linux which was
working.  Now I have replaced the logging system with FreeBSD 3.2.  

I started the FreeBSD syslogd like this:
syslogd -a XXX.XXX.XXX.XXX

But I see no log messages from the linux system. 


Thanks for the help.

Wayne

On Thu, 2 Sep 1999, Ben Rosengart wrote:

> Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 11:57:33 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Ben Rosengart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Wayne Cuddy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: FreeBSD Hackers List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: syslogd -a (fwd)
> 
> On Thu, 2 Sep 1999, Wayne Cuddy wrote:
> 
> > I am attempting to use syslogd on FreeBSD to log messages from a linux syslogd
> > with little success.  Is it possible to use the FBSD syslogd to log messages
> > from other unix flavors?
> 
> Yes, absolutely.  What is the problem you're experiencing?
> 
> --
>  Ben
> 
> UNIX Systems Engineer, Skunk Group
> StarMedia Network, Inc.
> 




To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message

syslogd -a (fwd)

[Wayne Cuddy]

I sent this to "questions" but did not a reply and figured I would give you
guys a try..


-- Forwarded message --
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 19:12:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: Wayne Cuddy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: FreeBSD Questions <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: syslogd -a

I am attempting to use syslogd on FreeBSD to log messages from a linux syslogd
with little success.  Is it possible to use the FBSD syslogd to log messages
from other unix flavors?




To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message

yea TCP_NODELAY Re: network performance vs. linux on small transfers

[Wayne Cuddy]

Ok, if you suggested the TCP_NODELAY option you were right.  Once we set this
FreeBSD sent 25 msgs/second, Linux did 22 msgs/second and HPSUX did 15
msgs/second. (we TCP_NODELAY on all platforms)

Is the Linux Nangle algo broken/different?

Thanks for all the help.

Wayne

On Tue, 24 Aug 1999, Wayne Cuddy wrote:

> Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 00:38:21 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Wayne Cuddy 
> To: FreeBSD Hackers List 
> Subject: network performance vs. linux on small transfers
> 
> I am involved in a messaging system at work in which we need to send/receive
> large amounts of small (one line messages) SMTP messages.  We are currently 
> using Sendmail 8.9.3
> on HPUX.
> 
> Our application sends messages down a FIFO to a daemon process that is 
> reading from
> the FIFO.  This process then connects to port 25 of the destination system and
> delivers the mail via SMTP.  Currently the destination system is the local
> system so everything is done on one machine.
> 
> Using HPUX we typically pass 5 messages a second.  This system is a dual
> 180Mhz K class server so this is surprisingly low performance for this system.
> 
> When testing on FreeBSD 3.1 we also got 5 messages a second.  This system is a
> 500Mhz P3, this is also unacceptable performance.
> 
> When we tested with Linux (kernel 2.2.5) we passed 15 messages a second
> consistently using the exact same P3 described above. 
> 
> Since the HPUX and FreeBSD numbers are so close I am wondering there is some
> performance tuning that I do not know about.  Do you think the number might
> change if multiple hosts were used?
> 
> The daemon that reads from the FIFO makes only one connection to the local
> Sendmail to deliver multiple messages in sequence.
> 
> 
> I REALLY want to use FreeBSD over Linux on this one and need some major help
> to get the performance out of FreeBSD.
> 
> 
> Much thanks in advance,
> 
> Wayne Cuddy
> 
> 
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
> 




To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message

yea TCP_NODELAY Re: network performance vs. linux on small transfers

[Wayne Cuddy]

Ok, if you suggested the TCP_NODELAY option you were right.  Once we set this
FreeBSD sent 25 msgs/second, Linux did 22 msgs/second and HPSUX did 15
msgs/second. (we TCP_NODELAY on all platforms)

Is the Linux Nangle algo broken/different?

Thanks for all the help.

Wayne

On Tue, 24 Aug 1999, Wayne Cuddy wrote:

> Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 00:38:21 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Wayne Cuddy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: FreeBSD Hackers List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: network performance vs. linux on small transfers
> 
> I am involved in a messaging system at work in which we need to send/receive
> large amounts of small (one line messages) SMTP messages.  We are currently using 
>Sendmail 8.9.3
> on HPUX.
> 
> Our application sends messages down a FIFO to a daemon process that is reading from
> the FIFO.  This process then connects to port 25 of the destination system and
> delivers the mail via SMTP.  Currently the destination system is the local
> system so everything is done on one machine.
> 
> Using HPUX we typically pass 5 messages a second.  This system is a dual
> 180Mhz K class server so this is surprisingly low performance for this system.
> 
> When testing on FreeBSD 3.1 we also got 5 messages a second.  This system is a
> 500Mhz P3, this is also unacceptable performance.
> 
> When we tested with Linux (kernel 2.2.5) we passed 15 messages a second
> consistently using the exact same P3 described above. 
> 
> Since the HPUX and FreeBSD numbers are so close I am wondering there is some
> performance tuning that I do not know about.  Do you think the number might
> change if multiple hosts were used?
> 
> The daemon that reads from the FIFO makes only one connection to the local
> Sendmail to deliver multiple messages in sequence.
> 
> 
> I REALLY want to use FreeBSD over Linux on this one and need some major help
> to get the performance out of FreeBSD.
> 
> 
> Much thanks in advance,
> 
> Wayne Cuddy
> 
> 
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
> 




To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message

Re: several messages

[Wayne Cuddy]

Thank you for your reply.  At what point should I set this socket option?  I
am assuming right after the socket is allocated??  

I will try this and post my results tomorrow night.

For those wondering, I cannot just execute Sendmail directly, there are many
architectural reasons for this design...

Thanks again,

Wayne


On Tue, 24 Aug 1999, Daniel O'Connor wrote:

> Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 13:41:37 +0930 (CST)
> From: Daniel O'Connor 
> To: Wayne Cuddy 
> Cc: FreeBSD Hackers List 
> Subject: RE: network performance vs. linux on small transfers
> 
> 
> On 24-Aug-99 Wayne Cuddy wrote:
> > I REALLY want to use FreeBSD over Linux on this one and need some major help
> > to get the performance out of FreeBSD.
> 
> Tried setsockopt and TCP_NODELAY?
> 
> >From netinet/tcp.h
> #define TCP_NODELAY 0x01/* don't delay send to coalesce packets */
> 
> ---
> Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer
> for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au
> "The nice thing about standards is that there
> are so many of them to choose from."
>   -- Andrew Tanenbaum
> 

On Mon, 23 Aug 1999, David Greenman wrote:

> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 21:17:06 -0700
> From: David Greenman 
> To: wa...@crb-web.com
> Cc: FreeBSD Hackers List 
> Subject: Re: network performance vs. linux on small transfers 
> 
> >I am involved in a messaging system at work in which we need to send/receive
> >large amounts of small (one line messages) SMTP messages.  We are currently 
> >using Sendmail 8.9.3
> >on HPUX.
> >
> >Our application sends messages down a FIFO to a daemon process that is 
> >reading from
> >the FIFO.  This process then connects to port 25 of the destination system 
> >and
> >delivers the mail via SMTP.  Currently the destination system is the local
> >system so everything is done on one machine.
> >
> >Using HPUX we typically pass 5 messages a second.  This system is a dual
> >180Mhz K class server so this is surprisingly low performance for this 
> >system.
> >
> >When testing on FreeBSD 3.1 we also got 5 messages a second.  This system is 
> >a
> >500Mhz P3, this is also unacceptable performance.
> >
> >When we tested with Linux (kernel 2.2.5) we passed 15 messages a second
> >consistently using the exact same P3 described above. 
> >
> >Since the HPUX and FreeBSD numbers are so close I am wondering there is some
> >performance tuning that I do not know about.  Do you think the number might
> >change if multiple hosts were used?
> >
> >The daemon that reads from the FIFO makes only one connection to the local
> >Sendmail to deliver multiple messages in sequence.
> >
> >
> >I REALLY want to use FreeBSD over Linux on this one and need some major help
> >to get the performance out of FreeBSD.
> 
>Are you setting the TCP_NODELAY socket option on the SMTP connection? If
> not, then please do that and let me know if it fixes the problem or not.
> 
> -DG
> 
> David Greenman
> Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project - http://www.freebsd.org
> Creator of high-performance Internet servers - http://www.terasolutions.com
> Pave the road of life with opportunities.
> 




To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message

network performance vs. linux on small transfers

[Wayne Cuddy]

I am involved in a messaging system at work in which we need to send/receive
large amounts of small (one line messages) SMTP messages.  We are currently 
using Sendmail 8.9.3
on HPUX.

Our application sends messages down a FIFO to a daemon process that is reading 
from
the FIFO.  This process then connects to port 25 of the destination system and
delivers the mail via SMTP.  Currently the destination system is the local
system so everything is done on one machine.

Using HPUX we typically pass 5 messages a second.  This system is a dual
180Mhz K class server so this is surprisingly low performance for this system.

When testing on FreeBSD 3.1 we also got 5 messages a second.  This system is a
500Mhz P3, this is also unacceptable performance.

When we tested with Linux (kernel 2.2.5) we passed 15 messages a second
consistently using the exact same P3 described above. 

Since the HPUX and FreeBSD numbers are so close I am wondering there is some
performance tuning that I do not know about.  Do you think the number might
change if multiple hosts were used?

The daemon that reads from the FIFO makes only one connection to the local
Sendmail to deliver multiple messages in sequence.


I REALLY want to use FreeBSD over Linux on this one and need some major help
to get the performance out of FreeBSD.


Much thanks in advance,

Wayne Cuddy



To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message

Re: several messages

[Wayne Cuddy]

Thank you for your reply.  At what point should I set this socket option?  I
am assuming right after the socket is allocated??  

I will try this and post my results tomorrow night.

For those wondering, I cannot just execute Sendmail directly, there are many
architectural reasons for this design...

Thanks again,

Wayne


On Tue, 24 Aug 1999, Daniel O'Connor wrote:

> Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 13:41:37 +0930 (CST)
> From: Daniel O'Connor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Wayne Cuddy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: FreeBSD Hackers List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: RE: network performance vs. linux on small transfers
> 
> 
> On 24-Aug-99 Wayne Cuddy wrote:
> > I REALLY want to use FreeBSD over Linux on this one and need some major help
> > to get the performance out of FreeBSD.
> 
> Tried setsockopt and TCP_NODELAY?
> 
> >From netinet/tcp.h
> #define TCP_NODELAY 0x01/* don't delay send to coalesce packets */
> 
> ---
> Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer
> for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au
> "The nice thing about standards is that there
> are so many of them to choose from."
>   -- Andrew Tanenbaum
> 

On Mon, 23 Aug 1999, David Greenman wrote:

> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 21:17:06 -0700
> From: David Greenman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc: FreeBSD Hackers List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: network performance vs. linux on small transfers 
> 
> >I am involved in a messaging system at work in which we need to send/receive
> >large amounts of small (one line messages) SMTP messages.  We are currently using 
>Sendmail 8.9.3
> >on HPUX.
> >
> >Our application sends messages down a FIFO to a daemon process that is reading from
> >the FIFO.  This process then connects to port 25 of the destination system and
> >delivers the mail via SMTP.  Currently the destination system is the local
> >system so everything is done on one machine.
> >
> >Using HPUX we typically pass 5 messages a second.  This system is a dual
> >180Mhz K class server so this is surprisingly low performance for this system.
> >
> >When testing on FreeBSD 3.1 we also got 5 messages a second.  This system is a
> >500Mhz P3, this is also unacceptable performance.
> >
> >When we tested with Linux (kernel 2.2.5) we passed 15 messages a second
> >consistently using the exact same P3 described above. 
> >
> >Since the HPUX and FreeBSD numbers are so close I am wondering there is some
> >performance tuning that I do not know about.  Do you think the number might
> >change if multiple hosts were used?
> >
> >The daemon that reads from the FIFO makes only one connection to the local
> >Sendmail to deliver multiple messages in sequence.
> >
> >
> >I REALLY want to use FreeBSD over Linux on this one and need some major help
> >to get the performance out of FreeBSD.
> 
>Are you setting the TCP_NODELAY socket option on the SMTP connection? If
> not, then please do that and let me know if it fixes the problem or not.
> 
> -DG
> 
> David Greenman
> Co-founder/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project - http://www.freebsd.org
> Creator of high-performance Internet servers - http://www.terasolutions.com
> Pave the road of life with opportunities.
> 




To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message

network performance vs. linux on small transfers

[Wayne Cuddy]

I am involved in a messaging system at work in which we need to send/receive
large amounts of small (one line messages) SMTP messages.  We are currently using 
Sendmail 8.9.3
on HPUX.

Our application sends messages down a FIFO to a daemon process that is reading from
the FIFO.  This process then connects to port 25 of the destination system and
delivers the mail via SMTP.  Currently the destination system is the local
system so everything is done on one machine.

Using HPUX we typically pass 5 messages a second.  This system is a dual
180Mhz K class server so this is surprisingly low performance for this system.

When testing on FreeBSD 3.1 we also got 5 messages a second.  This system is a
500Mhz P3, this is also unacceptable performance.

When we tested with Linux (kernel 2.2.5) we passed 15 messages a second
consistently using the exact same P3 described above. 

Since the HPUX and FreeBSD numbers are so close I am wondering there is some
performance tuning that I do not know about.  Do you think the number might
change if multiple hosts were used?

The daemon that reads from the FIFO makes only one connection to the local
Sendmail to deliver multiple messages in sequence.


I REALLY want to use FreeBSD over Linux on this one and need some major help
to get the performance out of FreeBSD.


Much thanks in advance,

Wayne Cuddy



To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message

Re: changing argv[0] after fork()

[Wayne Cuddy]

Even though I am developing on FBSD is there a "more portable" way to do this?

Thanks,
Wayne


On Wed, 14 Jul 1999, Andy Doran wrote:

> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 15:03:55 +0100
> From: Andy Doran 
> To: wa...@crb-web.com
> Cc: FreeBSD Hackers List 
> Subject: Re: changing argv[0] after fork()
> 
> setproctitle(3)
> 
> Wayne Cuddy wrote:
> > 
> > I have a process that forks several times, I want to change the names that 
> > the
> > child processes appear as in the process table.  Is there a trick to doing
> > this?
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Wayne
> > 
> > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org
> > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
> 
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
> 




To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message

Re: changing argv[0] after fork()

[Wayne Cuddy]

Even though I am developing on FBSD is there a "more portable" way to do this?

Thanks,
Wayne


On Wed, 14 Jul 1999, Andy Doran wrote:

> Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 15:03:55 +0100
> From: Andy Doran <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc: FreeBSD Hackers List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: changing argv[0] after fork()
> 
> setproctitle(3)
> 
> Wayne Cuddy wrote:
> > 
> > I have a process that forks several times, I want to change the names that the
> > child processes appear as in the process table.  Is there a trick to doing
> > this?
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > Wayne
> > 
> > To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
> 
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
> 




To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message

changing argv[0] after fork()

[Wayne Cuddy]

I have a process that forks several times, I want to change the names that the
child processes appear as in the process table.  Is there a trick to doing
this?

Thanks,
Wayne




To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message

changing argv[0] after fork()

[Wayne Cuddy]

I have a process that forks several times, I want to change the names that the
child processes appear as in the process table.  Is there a trick to doing
this?

Thanks,
Wayne




To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message

Adding a PCMCIA modem to pccard.conf (fwd)

[Wayne Cuddy]

I posted this to fbsd questions but got no response and was hoping someone
here could help me.

Thanks in advance,
Wayne


-- Forwarded message --
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 13:41:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Wayne Cuddy 
To: FreeBSD Questions 
Subject: Adding a PCMCIA modem to pccard.conf

I have a Lucent Venus 56k pcmcia modem.  I have been attempting to get it
working under FreeBSD 3.1R.  I have added an entry to /etc/pccard.conf and
found the correct "config index" (i think) using "pccardc dumpcis".   After
resolving all the resource allocation errors I believe i was able to get the
driver allocated.  

When pccardd is started I now see this error message.

sio1: type 16450? with a bogus IIR_TXRDY register


I can then do a stty -f /dev/cuaa1 and I can see some basic settings.
However, when I try to use the modem the computer locks up.  This modem works
great under linux but I would rather use FreeBSD on my laptop... Can anyone
help me resolve this problem.  Is there some support needed on pccardd that is
not there?

Thanks,
Wayne





To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message

Adding a PCMCIA modem to pccard.conf (fwd)

[Wayne Cuddy]

I posted this to fbsd questions but got no response and was hoping someone
here could help me.

Thanks in advance,
Wayne


-- Forwarded message --
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 13:41:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Wayne Cuddy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: FreeBSD Questions <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Adding a PCMCIA modem to pccard.conf

I have a Lucent Venus 56k pcmcia modem.  I have been attempting to get it
working under FreeBSD 3.1R.  I have added an entry to /etc/pccard.conf and
found the correct "config index" (i think) using "pccardc dumpcis".   After
resolving all the resource allocation errors I believe i was able to get the
driver allocated.  

When pccardd is started I now see this error message.

sio1: type 16450? with a bogus IIR_TXRDY register


I can then do a stty -f /dev/cuaa1 and I can see some basic settings.
However, when I try to use the modem the computer locks up.  This modem works
great under linux but I would rather use FreeBSD on my laptop... Can anyone
help me resolve this problem.  Is there some support needed on pccardd that is
not there?

Thanks,
Wayne





To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message

Re: Porting LILO to FreeBSD

[Wayne Cuddy]

On Mon, 5 Jul 1999, Graham Wheeler wrote:

> Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 14:23:36 +0200
> From: Graham Wheeler 
> To: Warner Losh 
> Cc: hack...@freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: Porting LILO to FreeBSD
> 
> Warner Losh wrote:
> > 
> > In message <199907031912.maa01...@dingo.cdrom.com> Mike Smith writes:
> > : Neither; he'll have to tell the BIOS that the drive's not there.
> > 
> > That's what he's doing right now...  He doesn't want to keep doing
> > this since it is such a PITA.
> > 
> > However, other posters in the thread gave me enough hints that I think
> > that I can help him make it work.  LILO's trick of installing a small
> > translating shim on INT 13 may be just the ticket...
> 
> But how will he install LILO, if he only has Windoze and FreeBSD?
> He could install Linux on his Windoze drive, get LILO bootstrapped,
> and take it off again afterwards, but making any changes to the LILO
> config will be tricky (I suppose he could make a bootable LINUX floppy).
> If he wants to install the shim, it has to be resident on the drive
> somewhere, but that's easy to sort out. It may be better to leave 
> the shim (any_d.b) on the FreeBSD partition - LILO relies on it being
> at a known physical location on the disk. Under Windoze, if he ran disk
> defragmenter, he could break the boot. Now that I think of it, I'm
> probably lucky that I have never defragmented my Windoze drive or I
> would most likely have broken my LILO.

I have, it works fine.  I believe that the defrag program is smart enough not
to move those precious bytes from the beginning of the partition.  Come to
think of it, if it did the system might not boot even if one wasn't using LILO.

> 
> -- 
> Dr Graham Wheeler  E-mail: g...@cequrux.com
> Cequrux Technologies   Phone:  +27(21)423-6065/6/7
> Firewalls/Virtual Private Networks Fax:+27(21)24-3656
> Data/Network Security Specialists  WWW:   
> http://www.cequrux.com/
> 
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
> 




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Re: Porting LILO to FreeBSD

[Wayne Cuddy]

On Mon, 5 Jul 1999, Graham Wheeler wrote:

> Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 14:23:36 +0200
> From: Graham Wheeler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Warner Losh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Porting LILO to FreeBSD
> 
> Warner Losh wrote:
> > 
> > In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Mike Smith writes:
> > : Neither; he'll have to tell the BIOS that the drive's not there.
> > 
> > That's what he's doing right now...  He doesn't want to keep doing
> > this since it is such a PITA.
> > 
> > However, other posters in the thread gave me enough hints that I think
> > that I can help him make it work.  LILO's trick of installing a small
> > translating shim on INT 13 may be just the ticket...
> 
> But how will he install LILO, if he only has Windoze and FreeBSD?
> He could install Linux on his Windoze drive, get LILO bootstrapped,
> and take it off again afterwards, but making any changes to the LILO
> config will be tricky (I suppose he could make a bootable LINUX floppy).
> If he wants to install the shim, it has to be resident on the drive
> somewhere, but that's easy to sort out. It may be better to leave 
> the shim (any_d.b) on the FreeBSD partition - LILO relies on it being
> at a known physical location on the disk. Under Windoze, if he ran disk
> defragmenter, he could break the boot. Now that I think of it, I'm
> probably lucky that I have never defragmented my Windoze drive or I
> would most likely have broken my LILO.

I have, it works fine.  I believe that the defrag program is smart enough not
to move those precious bytes from the beginning of the partition.  Come to
think of it, if it did the system might not boot even if one wasn't using LILO.

> 
> -- 
> Dr Graham Wheeler  E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cequrux Technologies   Phone:  +27(21)423-6065/6/7
> Firewalls/Virtual Private Networks Fax:+27(21)24-3656
> Data/Network Security Specialists  WWW:   
> http://www.cequrux.com/
> 
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
> 




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poll() vs select()

[Wayne Cuddy]

I am struggling through understanding device drivers under freebsd.  I have
nice book and linux device drivers and some older ones on the UNIX device
drivers but nothing seems to match perfectly with freebsd... So stay tuned for
more questions

Correct me if I am wrong...  After reading the insanely small device drivers
tutorial from the FBSD web page I see that the functionality of the select
system call was moved from d_select() in 2.2 kernels to d_poll() in 3.x which
now supports the select() and poll() system calls.  My question is really one
of usage.  Why would one us poll() over select()?  Is select eventually going
to go away for some reason?  

Thanks,
Wayne



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poll() vs select()

[Wayne Cuddy]

I am struggling through understanding device drivers under freebsd.  I have
nice book and linux device drivers and some older ones on the UNIX device
drivers but nothing seems to match perfectly with freebsd... So stay tuned for
more questions

Correct me if I am wrong...  After reading the insanely small device drivers
tutorial from the FBSD web page I see that the functionality of the select
system call was moved from d_select() in 2.2 kernels to d_poll() in 3.x which
now supports the select() and poll() system calls.  My question is really one
of usage.  Why would one us poll() over select()?  Is select eventually going
to go away for some reason?  

Thanks,
Wayne



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how do I install driver examples?

[Wayne Cuddy]

On my 2.2.7 system I have this directory:
/usr/share/examples/drivers

This is not on my 3.2S system.  I have the 3.1 4 cd set can anyone tell me
what I need to install in order get the drivers extracted from my 3.1 cd?

Thanks,

Wayne




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Re: [Call for review] init(8): new feature

[Wayne Cuddy]

They SysV way is more elegant and less error prone for bad typist.  Graphical
tools can be used to interface with these quite easily.  It also also easy to
automate installations via installation mechanisms.  I don't think I agree
that it is a bad idea because it is associated with SysV... 

On 15 Jun 1999, Arun Sharma wrote:

> Date: 15 Jun 1999 19:54:51 -0700
> From: Arun Sharma 
> To: Mark Newton 
> Cc: hack...@freebsd.org
> Subject: Re: [Call for review] init(8): new feature
> 
> Mark Newton  writes:
> 
> > Arun Sharma wrote:
> > 
> >  > While we're on the init topic, is there any strong feeling here about
> >  > BSD /etc/rc* scripts Vs SysV ? The nice thing about SysV initscripts
> >  > is the ability to start and stop any service that I like.
> > 
> > That's fine -- there are lots of ways to start and stop any service you
> > like without involving SysV init.
> 
> Like sending a signal to the process providing the service ? The
> problem with that approach is, the signal you send and the clean up
> you do is non-standard for each service and having a standard
> interface:
> 
> /etc/rc.d/ stop|start|restart
> 
> makes it standard. 
> 
>   -Arun
> 
> 
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> 




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