Re: 9-beta1 installer - partition editor
In message <4e6f26d1.GZdzm/zhxjjqfow1%per...@pluto.rain.com>, per...@pluto.rain .com writes: >Freddie Cash wrote: > >> Unix partitioning has always been this way: >> - create partition on disk for OS >> - create sub-partitions for filesystems No, it has not. In fact, it is only on PC like hardware that you can reliably share a disk between different mutually competitive operating systems. Most "unix-machines" don't have a concept of what you call partitions, and neither did BSD unix until 386BSD introduced it. Until then: One OS, one disk(-pack|-drive). -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: 9-beta1 installer - partition editor
Freddie Cash wrote: > Unix partitioning has always been this way: > - create partition on disk for OS > - create sub-partitions for filesystems No, not "always". The very first Unix I ever encountered, AT&T 6th Edition on a PDP-11/34 with RK05 disks, used what FreeBSD has (until recently) called "dangerously dedicated" disks. Ditto the first BSD- derived Unix I used, SunOS 3.5 on a Sun-3/160 with the Xylogics SMD disk controller. Of course there was nothing dangerous about it then, because no one had ever heard of installing more than one OS on any given disk pack or cartridge. (Even the large multi-platter disk packs were small enough that one ordinarily needed multiple packs per OS; there was no way anyone would have wanted to squeeze multiple OS onto a pack.) Prior to the IBM PC-AT -- the first PC to have a hard drive -- how many systems _did_ support multiple installs? ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: 9-beta1 installer - partition editor
On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 10:59 AM, Ivan Voras wrote: > On 12 September 2011 18:28, Nathan Whitehorn > wrote: > > > This was resolved earlier -- you cannot install onto just MBR without a > > bsdlabel. This has never been supported, and worked only by accident > before. > > *As it tells you* you need to create sub-partitions. > > I'll again note that it should be supported because a) there's no > technical reason not to and b) this is how every other OS works. But > I'll leave it at that, maybe the users won't mind. > Well, if you look at the history of BSD Unix and the port to the PC, you'll notice that every other PC-based OS does partitioning wrong. :) Unix partitioning has always been this way: - create partition on disk for OS - create sub-partitions for filesystems And it was that way for many years (decades?) before the PC came along. IBM/MS decided to ignore the huge history of computers and partitioning that came before, instead coming up with the lame-brained "primary partition" MBR scheme with a limit of 4 partitions. Later extending that with the even more lame-brained concept of an "extended partition" and "logical partitions". Don't blame FreeBSD (a member of the BSD family) for following the BSD Unix tradition for partitioning. Thankfully, the GPT partitioning standard removes the distinction between "primary", "extended", and "logical" partitions. Now, a partition is a partition is a partition. It's just too bad that they removed the concept of sub-partitions (bsdlabels) as a multi-boot system now has a giant, messy, table full of top-level partitions, with each OS jumbled together (but, it's much easier to label them all to make it easier to manage). :( -- Freddie Cash fjwc...@gmail.com ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: 9-beta1 installer - partition editor
On 12 September 2011 18:28, Nathan Whitehorn wrote: > This was resolved earlier -- you cannot install onto just MBR without a > bsdlabel. This has never been supported, and worked only by accident before. > *As it tells you* you need to create sub-partitions. Hi, I'll again note that it should be supported because a) there's no technical reason not to and b) this is how every other OS works. But I'll leave it at that, maybe the users won't mind. But other than that, it might be that I just don't get the workflow it's supposed to implement. Can you point out to me on these screenshots: http://ivoras.imgur.com/freebsd_installer_2 (or on the other set), what option on what screen (i.e. which screenshot) should I choose to create bsdlabels? ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: 9-beta1 installer - partition editor
On 09/12/11 14:13, Ivan Voras wrote: Unfortunately, I continue to have problems with the partitioner part of the installer in the BETA2 image. See the (unchanged) problem screenshots here: http://ivoras.imgur.com/freebsd_installer_2 See also the screenshots of the entire process here (on BETA1): http://ivoras.imgur.com/installer__partitioner I am no longer trying to create a swap partition but still: 1) I cannot proceed without specifying a root partition 2) I cannot specify the root partition (the dialog ignores it). If this doesn't get solved, it makes FreeBSD uninstallable in this case. There may be some kind of interference between the existing MBR scheme and the operations that the installer attempts to do. This was resolved earlier -- you cannot install onto just MBR without a bsdlabel. This has never been supported, and worked only by accident before. *As it tells you* you need to create sub-partitions. -Nathan ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: 9-beta1 installer - partition editor
Unfortunately, I continue to have problems with the partitioner part of the installer in the BETA2 image. See the (unchanged) problem screenshots here: http://ivoras.imgur.com/freebsd_installer_2 See also the screenshots of the entire process here (on BETA1): http://ivoras.imgur.com/installer__partitioner I am no longer trying to create a swap partition but still: 1) I cannot proceed without specifying a root partition 2) I cannot specify the root partition (the dialog ignores it). If this doesn't get solved, it makes FreeBSD uninstallable in this case. There may be some kind of interference between the existing MBR scheme and the operations that the installer attempts to do. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: 9-beta1 installer - partition editor
Original Message Subject:Re: 9-beta1 installer - partition editor Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 10:19:32 -0400 From: Brandon Falk To: Ivan Voras On 8/31/2011 6:19 AM, Ivan Voras wrote: On 31/08/2011 02:40, Nathan Whitehorn wrote: On 08/30/11 19:07, Ivan Voras wrote: It was a plain install on a RAID volume which appears as ordinary da0 drive. I did do a couple of start-overs so it could be that some state got lost. It definitely did NOT show mount points in the dialog which lists newly created partitions. Which partitioning scheme did you use? How did you lay out the partitions? I did not deviate from defaults until the partition editor, where I deleted existing partitions (Linux) and tried to create new ones. So, it's a MBR scheme, and I intended to create three partitions, for "/", for "/srv" and a swap partition. I think Andrey's idea about what went wrong with the swap partition is most probably correct, so this only leaves the inability to register mount points with the partitions. However, if as Brandon suggested this is already fixed, don't bother. I'll try the BETA2 when ISOs become available and will post screenshots (IPMI) if it fails again. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org" Sorry, I was using GPT, so that could be why my results differed. -Brandon Falk ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: 9-beta1 installer - partition editor
On 31 August 2011 15:35, Nathan Whitehorn wrote: > On 08/31/11 08:28, Ivan Voras wrote: >> If it is as you say, then the dialog where I entered "/" and "/srv" >> should definitely NOT have that field on it. > > Well, no. It only applies to bsdlabel containers. For instance, were I to > want to mount an ext2 or fat32 partition directly under MBR, which the > installer can do (and create, in the case of fat32), the mountpoint field is > very important. What we *can* do is add a check that rejects mountpoints for > partitions of type "freebsd". I'll see if I can code that up; it's too late > for BETA2, however. As you probably know, nothing precludes users to create UFS (or any other file system) directly under the MBR partition or the disk itself, so in fact what I showed in the screenshots should have been a valid operation. I think the dialogs are confusing, especially for users not used to the FreeBSD way of doing things. How about these *minimal* changes to the partition editor: 1) Before the partition editor starts, show an informational dialog box describing in short (one screen, no scrolling) that they can choose to either use a "normal" partitioning scheme like Linux, Windows and others and just create simple partitions or they can go the weird BSD way and create nested partitions (i.e. disklabels under a MBR partition). 2) Have a helpful message / line in the partition editor saying that if a "freebsd"-type partition is created without a mountpoint specified, the editor will allow creating second-level bsdlabel under them. I am very much trying to emphasize that any assumption that users will know these two pieces of information before they use the installer will only cause them to fill the mailing lists with bug reports such as mine or worse - just silently give up. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: 9-beta1 installer - partition editor
On 08/31/11 08:28, Ivan Voras wrote: On 31 August 2011 14:45, Nathan Whitehorn wrote: It does let you set mountpoints, and displays them, and always has, but not for bsdlabel container partitions (MBR type "freebsd"), since they aren't filesystems. Is this what you were trying to do? Very probably - it was unclear to me that it still keeps the old slice-partition division but reverses the names. But, look at the screenshots here and see what went wrong: http://ivoras.imgur.com/installer__partitioner OK, that's exactly what happened. It also doesn't reverse the names -- it just drops the term "slice" completely. If it is as you say, then the dialog where I entered "/" and "/srv" should definitely NOT have that field on it. Well, no. It only applies to bsdlabel containers. For instance, were I to want to mount an ext2 or fat32 partition directly under MBR, which the installer can do (and create, in the case of fat32), the mountpoint field is very important. What we *can* do is add a check that rejects mountpoints for partitions of type "freebsd". I'll see if I can code that up; it's too late for BETA2, however. -Nathan ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: 9-beta1 installer - partition editor
On 31 August 2011 14:45, Nathan Whitehorn wrote: > It does let you set mountpoints, and displays them, and always has, but not > for bsdlabel container partitions (MBR type "freebsd"), since they aren't > filesystems. Is this what you were trying to do? Very probably - it was unclear to me that it still keeps the old slice-partition division but reverses the names. But, look at the screenshots here and see what went wrong: http://ivoras.imgur.com/installer__partitioner If it is as you say, then the dialog where I entered "/" and "/srv" should definitely NOT have that field on it. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: 9-beta1 installer - partition editor
On 08/31/11 05:19, Ivan Voras wrote: On 31/08/2011 02:40, Nathan Whitehorn wrote: On 08/30/11 19:07, Ivan Voras wrote: It was a plain install on a RAID volume which appears as ordinary da0 drive. I did do a couple of start-overs so it could be that some state got lost. It definitely did NOT show mount points in the dialog which lists newly created partitions. Which partitioning scheme did you use? How did you lay out the partitions? I did not deviate from defaults until the partition editor, where I deleted existing partitions (Linux) and tried to create new ones. So, it's a MBR scheme, and I intended to create three partitions, for "/", for "/srv" and a swap partition. I think Andrey's idea about what went wrong with the swap partition is most probably correct, so this only leaves the inability to register mount points with the partitions. However, if as Brandon suggested this is already fixed, don't bother. I'll try the BETA2 when ISOs become available and will post screenshots (IPMI) if it fails again. The help text for straight MBR partitioning (which has never worked for FreeBSD) has been modified for BETA2 to suggest "freebsd" (which has always been the default) instead of "freebsd-ufs" etc. It does let you set mountpoints, and displays them, and always has, but not for bsdlabel container partitions (MBR type "freebsd"), since they aren't filesystems. Is this what you were trying to do? -Nathan ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: 9-beta1 installer - partition editor
On 31/08/2011 02:40, Nathan Whitehorn wrote: On 08/30/11 19:07, Ivan Voras wrote: It was a plain install on a RAID volume which appears as ordinary da0 drive. I did do a couple of start-overs so it could be that some state got lost. It definitely did NOT show mount points in the dialog which lists newly created partitions. Which partitioning scheme did you use? How did you lay out the partitions? I did not deviate from defaults until the partition editor, where I deleted existing partitions (Linux) and tried to create new ones. So, it's a MBR scheme, and I intended to create three partitions, for "/", for "/srv" and a swap partition. I think Andrey's idea about what went wrong with the swap partition is most probably correct, so this only leaves the inability to register mount points with the partitions. However, if as Brandon suggested this is already fixed, don't bother. I'll try the BETA2 when ISOs become available and will post screenshots (IPMI) if it fails again. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: 9-beta1 installer - partition editor
On 31/08/2011 08:42, Andrey V. Elsukov wrote:
On 30.08.2011 16:27, Ivan Voras wrote:
Am I doing something wrong or the BETA1 installer cannot be used to
manually create the partition scheme?
1) it doesn't accept "freebsd-swap" as partition type ("invalid argument")
Not all partitioning schemes supports "freebsd-swap" partition type.
E.g. MBR does not support it.
This could very well be the cause of my problems! The dialog should
definitely not include suggestions to create "freebsd-swap" partitions
if the partitioning scheme does not support it.
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Re: 9-beta1 installer - partition editor
On 30.08.2011 16:27, Ivan Voras wrote:
> Am I doing something wrong or the BETA1 installer cannot be used to
> manually create the partition scheme?
>
> 1) it doesn't accept "freebsd-swap" as partition type ("invalid argument")
Not all partitioning schemes supports "freebsd-swap" partition type.
E.g. MBR does not support it.
--
WBR, Andrey V. Elsukov
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Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: 9-beta1 installer - partition editor
On 08/30/11 19:07, Ivan Voras wrote:
On 30.8.2011. 16:11, Nathan Whitehorn wrote:
On 08/30/11 07:27, Ivan Voras wrote:
Am I doing something wrong or the BETA1 installer cannot be used to
manually create the partition scheme?
1) it doesn't accept "freebsd-swap" as partition type ("invalid
argument")
2) it doesn't recognize that I have actually created a root (/) mount
point; since it doesn't show mountpoints maybe it forgets the input
from the dialog?
The partition editor looks very rudimentary and feature-less. It
really should show "space left" on the drive.
It does show mountpoints, and of course does support swap partitions.
You can use the partition editor to create quite complicated multi-disk
partition layouts over a variety of schemes, and in that way it is
wildly more featureful than what was in sysinstall.
Can you describe more what you were trying to do, in terms of what
partition scheme you were using, etc.? The "invalid argument" is a
message coming from the kernel, so something must be very wrong in your
setup.
It was a plain install on a RAID volume which appears as ordinary da0
drive. I did do a couple of start-overs so it could be that some state
got lost. It definitely did NOT show mount points in the dialog which
lists newly created partitions.
Which partitioning scheme did you use? How did you lay out the partitions?
-Nathan
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Re: 9-beta1 installer - partition editor
On 30.8.2011. 16:11, Nathan Whitehorn wrote:
On 08/30/11 07:27, Ivan Voras wrote:
Am I doing something wrong or the BETA1 installer cannot be used to
manually create the partition scheme?
1) it doesn't accept "freebsd-swap" as partition type ("invalid
argument")
2) it doesn't recognize that I have actually created a root (/) mount
point; since it doesn't show mountpoints maybe it forgets the input
from the dialog?
The partition editor looks very rudimentary and feature-less. It
really should show "space left" on the drive.
It does show mountpoints, and of course does support swap partitions.
You can use the partition editor to create quite complicated multi-disk
partition layouts over a variety of schemes, and in that way it is
wildly more featureful than what was in sysinstall.
Can you describe more what you were trying to do, in terms of what
partition scheme you were using, etc.? The "invalid argument" is a
message coming from the kernel, so something must be very wrong in your
setup.
It was a plain install on a RAID volume which appears as ordinary da0
drive. I did do a couple of start-overs so it could be that some state
got lost. It definitely did NOT show mount points in the dialog which
lists newly created partitions.
I'm sure you've looked around but just in case you missed it, here's how
Ubuntu's text-mode installer looks like (note its partition editor):
http://www.debianadmin.com/ubuntu-lamp-server-installation-with-screenshots.html
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Re: 9-beta1 installer - partition editor
On 30.8.2011. 16:36, Brandon Falk wrote: On 8/30/2011 8:27 AM, Ivan Voras wrote: Am I doing something wrong or the BETA1 installer cannot be used to manually create the partition scheme? I do not have BETA1 available right now on CD, but I do have BETA2 rev 225251. On this system I'm not able to replicate your issue (amd64). I know I'm using a newer rev, but I've been using 9 for a long time now, and I've yet to have an issue with the partitioner. Ok, then it's probably fixed by now. ___ freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-hackers-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: 9-beta1 installer - partition editor
On 08/30/11 07:27, Ivan Voras wrote:
Am I doing something wrong or the BETA1 installer cannot be used to
manually create the partition scheme?
1) it doesn't accept "freebsd-swap" as partition type ("invalid
argument")
2) it doesn't recognize that I have actually created a root (/) mount
point; since it doesn't show mountpoints maybe it forgets the input
from the dialog?
The partition editor looks very rudimentary and feature-less. It
really should show "space left" on the drive.
It does show mountpoints, and of course does support swap partitions.
You can use the partition editor to create quite complicated multi-disk
partition layouts over a variety of schemes, and in that way it is
wildly more featureful than what was in sysinstall.
Can you describe more what you were trying to do, in terms of what
partition scheme you were using, etc.? The "invalid argument" is a
message coming from the kernel, so something must be very wrong in your
setup.
-Nathan
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Re: 9-beta1 installer - partition editor
On 8/30/2011 8:27 AM, Ivan Voras wrote:
Am I doing something wrong or the BETA1 installer cannot be used to
manually create the partition scheme?
1) it doesn't accept "freebsd-swap" as partition type ("invalid
argument")
2) it doesn't recognize that I have actually created a root (/) mount
point; since it doesn't show mountpoints maybe it forgets the input
from the dialog?
The partition editor looks very rudimentary and feature-less. It
really should show "space left" on the drive.
___
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What is the rev you are using, as well as the arch? I've had no issues
ever with partitioning (less the limitations of the partitioner) on
numerous revs of 9, although all of my testing has been done on the
exact same arch. I also use guided partitioning, and partition entire
disk, then I go through and delete all the partitioning info, and start
from scratch (why I do this, I have no clue). As for size left, that's
something that really bothers me. I usually go through into command
line, and use gpart to set up my system instead.
I do not have BETA1 available right now on CD, but I do have BETA2 rev
225251. On this system I'm not able to replicate your issue (amd64). I
know I'm using a newer rev, but I've been using 9 for a long time now,
and I've yet to have an issue with the partitioner.
As for your second question, where did you create the root mount point
prior to the editor? Or was it still on the editor that you made it?
-Brandon Falk
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9-beta1 installer - partition editor
Am I doing something wrong or the BETA1 installer cannot be used to
manually create the partition scheme?
1) it doesn't accept "freebsd-swap" as partition type ("invalid argument")
2) it doesn't recognize that I have actually created a root (/) mount
point; since it doesn't show mountpoints maybe it forgets the input from
the dialog?
The partition editor looks very rudimentary and feature-less. It really
should show "space left" on the drive.
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