Are the ethernet drivers time dependent?
The WaveLan card suddenly comes to mind... Are the ethernet drivers time dependent? If I take a ethernet card [ed(4)] and change the crystal for something slower, assuming I can still get the card to work correctly (albiet slower) will it still interact properly with the ed(4) driver, or do I need to look at tweaking the kernel? In other words, can the ed(4) driver work with ethernet cards running at speeds other than 10 MHz? I know there are drivers for the WaveLan card, but I'm looking at going even slower (256Kb!). -- Kris Kirby --- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Are the ethernet drivers time dependent?
The WaveLan card suddenly comes to mind... Are the ethernet drivers time dependent? If I take a ethernet card [ed(4)] and change the crystal for something slower, assuming I can still get the card to work correctly (albiet slower) will it still interact properly with the ed(4) driver, or do I need to look at tweaking the kernel? In other words, can the ed(4) driver work with ethernet cards running at speeds other than 10 MHz? I know there are drivers for the WaveLan card, but I'm looking at going even slower (256Kb!). -- Kris Kirby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> --- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: Are the ethernet drivers time dependent?
On Fri, 27 Aug 1999, Kris Kirby wrote: > I know there are drivers for the WaveLan card, but I'm looking at going > even slower (256Kb!). Why do you wnat to do this? If for bandwidht limiting you need look no further than 'dummynet'. -- | Matthew N. Dodd | '78 Datsun 280Z | '75 Volvo 164E | FreeBSD/NetBSD | | win...@jurai.net | 2 x '84 Volvo 245DL| ix86,sparc,pmax | | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | This Space For Rent | ISO8802.5 4ever | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: Are the ethernet drivers time dependent?
Matthew N. Dodd wrote: > > On Fri, 27 Aug 1999, Kris Kirby wrote: > > I know there are drivers for the WaveLan card, but I'm looking at going > > even slower (256Kb!). > Why do you wnat to do this? If for bandwidht limiting you need look no > further than 'dummynet'. It's not a bandwidth issue; it's a speed issue. I'm trying to find an extremely cheap way to get data in and out of a PC. I've got the National Semiconductor application sheets for the 8392(?) and plan on using one "cut in half": Half duplex, but split into seperate TX and RX lines. I'm also looking at a scaleable way to go up or down in speed, without dealing with async... A layer two device if you will. -- Kris Kirby --- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: Are the ethernet drivers time dependent?
On Fri, 27 Aug 1999, Kris Kirby wrote: > It's not a bandwidth issue; it's a speed issue. I'm trying to find an > extremely cheap way to get data in and out of a PC. How about an I2C bus? (Or is that -too- slow?) -- | Matthew N. Dodd | '78 Datsun 280Z | '75 Volvo 164E | FreeBSD/NetBSD | | win...@jurai.net | 2 x '84 Volvo 245DL| ix86,sparc,pmax | | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | This Space For Rent | ISO8802.5 4ever | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: Are the ethernet drivers time dependent?
plip? On Fri, 27 Aug 1999, Matthew N. Dodd wrote: > On Fri, 27 Aug 1999, Kris Kirby wrote: > > It's not a bandwidth issue; it's a speed issue. I'm trying to find an > > extremely cheap way to get data in and out of a PC. > > How about an I2C bus? > > (Or is that -too- slow?) > > -- > | Matthew N. Dodd | '78 Datsun 280Z | '75 Volvo 164E | FreeBSD/NetBSD | > | win...@jurai.net | 2 x '84 Volvo 245DL| ix86,sparc,pmax | > | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | This Space For Rent | ISO8802.5 4ever | > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: Are the ethernet drivers time dependent?
On 28-Aug-99 Kris Kirby wrote: > It's not a bandwidth issue; it's a speed issue. I'm trying to find an > extremely cheap way to get data in and out of a PC. I've got the > National Semiconductor application sheets for the 8392(?) and plan on > using one "cut in half": Half duplex, but split into seperate TX and RX > lines. I'm also looking at a scaleable way to go up or down in speed, > without dealing with async... A layer two device if you will. RS232? RS485? VERY cheap and the later is at least moderatly resistant to noise :) --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum pgp8bbWvlBYhq.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Are the ethernet drivers time dependent?
Matthew N. Dodd wrote: > > On Fri, 27 Aug 1999, Kris Kirby wrote: > > It's not a bandwidth issue; it's a speed issue. I'm trying to find an > > extremely cheap way to get data in and out of a PC. > > How about an I2C bus? > > (Or is that -too- slow?) I'll have to admit I'm totally ignorant of what this is. -- Kris Kirby --- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: Are the ethernet drivers time dependent?
Julian Elischer wrote: > > plip? > Ideally, no. The ethernet card makes the data rather easy to handle into other means (like a radio modem). It's already serialized, packetized, has a MAC address for a link address, and it's easy to get seperate RX and TX lines out of the card, even if it is 10Base-2 (BNC). The idea is to eliminate other hardware in order to drop cost and complication. -- Kris Kirby --- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: Are the ethernet drivers time dependent?
Daniel O'Connor wrote: > > On 28-Aug-99 Kris Kirby wrote: > > It's not a bandwidth issue; it's a speed issue. I'm trying to find an > > extremely cheap way to get data in and out of a PC. I've got the > > National Semiconductor application sheets for the 8392(?) and plan on > > using one "cut in half": Half duplex, but split into seperate TX and RX > > lines. I'm also looking at a scaleable way to go up or down in speed, > > without dealing with async... A layer two device if you will. > > RS232? RS485? VERY cheap and the later is at least moderatly resistant to > noise > :) Noise shouldn't be an issue. It's going to be handling "clean" data. By cheap, I mean $5 a pop or so. I've got a few 3C503s that I feel like cutting into. I'm going to be bearing the financial end of this project of mine, so I'm going to save where I can. :-) -- Kris Kirby --- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: Are the ethernet drivers time dependent?
On 28-Aug-99 Kris Kirby wrote: > > RS232? RS485? VERY cheap and the later is at least moderatly resistant to > > noise > Noise shouldn't be an issue. It's going to be handling "clean" data. By > cheap, I mean $5 a pop or so. I've got a few 3C503s that I feel like > cutting into. I'm going to be bearing the financial end of this project > of mine, so I'm going to save where I can. :-) Well serial ports come free on all new computers ;) --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum pgpo36oVrfpsb.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Are the ethernet drivers time dependent?
USB? http://www.activewire.com/ has a nice board that does I2C as well. With a bit of plumbing you should be able to stream out 100kb a second. Nick On Fri, 27 Aug 1999, Julian Elischer wrote: > plip? > > > On Fri, 27 Aug 1999, Matthew N. Dodd wrote: > > > On Fri, 27 Aug 1999, Kris Kirby wrote: > > > It's not a bandwidth issue; it's a speed issue. I'm trying to find an > > > extremely cheap way to get data in and out of a PC. > > > > How about an I2C bus? > > > > (Or is that -too- slow?) > > > > -- > > | Matthew N. Dodd | '78 Datsun 280Z | '75 Volvo 164E | FreeBSD/NetBSD | > > | win...@jurai.net | 2 x '84 Volvo 245DL| ix86,sparc,pmax | > > | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | This Space For Rent | ISO8802.5 4ever | > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > -- e-Mail: hi...@skylink.it To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: Are the ethernet drivers time dependent?
Daniel O'Connor wrote: > > On 28-Aug-99 Kris Kirby wrote: > > > RS232? RS485? VERY cheap and the later is at least moderatly resistant to > > > noise > > Noise shouldn't be an issue. It's going to be handling "clean" data. By > > cheap, I mean $5 a pop or so. I've got a few 3C503s that I feel like > > cutting into. I'm going to be bearing the financial end of this project > > of mine, so I'm going to save where I can. :-) > > Well serial ports come free on all new computers ;) You're right, I should have clarifed. I'm looking to break 128K. I don't have any serial ports that I can jumper up to 460 or 230 kbps. Additionally, 256K is a nice round number :-). I'm not looking to invest in new hardware, and I can save on a bit of hardware by letting the NIC worry about the link. The NIC also greatly simplies the system. At worst, I'd need a machine with a 3C503 and a NE2000. And then I'll probably use dummynet for bandwidth limiting over the link so it doesn't get flooded. I'm going to be building at least three of these units, assuming I get the technical issues out of the way. So I'm looking at a cheap (hardware and software) way of getting data in and out of a PC with IP support and such. It just makes sense in my POV to use a NIC. It's capable of 10 Mbps and has most of the circuitry for preparing data for transmission on it. If you will, it's a ready to use data pump. -- Kris Kirby --- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: Are the ethernet drivers time dependent?
> Well serial ports come free on all new computers ;) You mean like the PC 2000 that _only_ comes with USB and for which you will have to buy a USB->serial converter that might not handle the signalling you had in mind? :-) Nick http://www.etla.net/~n_hibma/usb/usb.pl -- e-Mail: hi...@skylink.it To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: Are the ethernet drivers time dependent?
Daniel O'Connor wrote: > > On 28-Aug-99 Kris Kirby wrote: > > I'm going to be building at least three of these units, assuming I get > > the technical issues out of the way. So I'm looking at a cheap (hardware > > and software) way of getting data in and out of a PC with IP support and > > such. It just makes sense in my POV to use a NIC. It's capable of 10 > > Mbps and has most of the circuitry for preparing data for transmission > > on it. If you will, it's a ready to use data pump. > > Ahh I see.. > So you're basically making a ethernet->radio type of thing? > > Or actually mangling the card itself? Both. The problem is that you can't cram a signal moving at 10 Mbps through a radio interface designed for 256K, even if it is bandwidth limited to 256K. I'm hoping the 3C503 is ancient enough that I can slow it down by yanking it's 20. MHz crystal oscillator and feeding it a lower speed signal. I'm going to walk them down to see just how far I can go. After all, 2 Mbps isn't bad, it just requires a little more work. -- Kris Kirby --- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: Are the ethernet drivers time dependent?
On 28-Aug-99 Kris Kirby wrote: > Both. The problem is that you can't cram a signal moving at 10 Mbps > through a radio interface designed for 256K, even if it is bandwidth > limited to 256K. I'm hoping the 3C503 is ancient enough that I can slow > it down by yanking it's 20. MHz crystal oscillator and feeding it a > lower speed signal. I'm going to walk them down to see just how far I > can go. After all, 2 Mbps isn't bad, it just requires a little more > work. Ahh eeww :) I hope you have a lot of spare time ;) --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum pgpR88YTe9T4t.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Are the ethernet drivers time dependent?
> > Both. The problem is that you can't cram a signal moving at 10 Mbps > through a radio interface designed for 256K, even if it is bandwidth > limited to 256K. I'm hoping the 3C503 is ancient enough that I can slow > it down by yanking it's 20. MHz crystal oscillator and feeding it a > lower speed signal. I'm going to walk them down to see just how far I > can go. After all, 2 Mbps isn't bad, it just requires a little more > work. The 8390 should be functional down to 1MHz or so, and I don't think that signal is used for any other chip functions. You can take the i82586 a lot slower; I recall several S/HDLC-like cards that used them as USRTs in the hundreds of kilobits per second range. Bearing in mind that both the 8390 and the 82586 were designed back when 10MBps was "fast" ethernet. -- \\ The mind's the standard \\ Mike Smith \\ of the man. \\ msm...@freebsd.org \\-- Joseph Merrick \\ msm...@cdrom.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: Are the ethernet drivers time dependent?
On Sat, 28 Aug 1999, Kris Kirby wrote: > Both. The problem is that you can't cram a signal moving at 10 Mbps > through a radio interface designed for 256K, even if it is bandwidth > limited to 256K. I'm hoping the 3C503 is ancient enough that I can slow > it down by yanking it's 20. MHz crystal oscillator and feeding it a > lower speed signal. I'm going to walk them down to see just how far I > can go. After all, 2 Mbps isn't bad, it just requires a little more > work. What about ARCnet? -- | Matthew N. Dodd | '78 Datsun 280Z | '75 Volvo 164E | FreeBSD/NetBSD | | win...@jurai.net | 2 x '84 Volvo 245DL| ix86,sparc,pmax | | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | This Space For Rent | ISO8802.5 4ever | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: Are the ethernet drivers time dependent?
Matthew N. Dodd wrote: > > On Sat, 28 Aug 1999, Kris Kirby wrote: > > Both. The problem is that you can't cram a signal moving at 10 Mbps > > through a radio interface designed for 256K, even if it is bandwidth > > limited to 256K. I'm hoping the 3C503 is ancient enough that I can slow > > it down by yanking it's 20. MHz crystal oscillator and feeding it a > > lower speed signal. I'm going to walk them down to see just how far I > > can go. After all, 2 Mbps isn't bad, it just requires a little more > > work. > > What about ARCnet? I've never used it / don't know the technical specs. -- Kris Kirby --- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: Are the ethernet drivers time dependent?
In message "Matthew N. Dodd" writes: : On Sat, 28 Aug 1999, Kris Kirby wrote: : > Both. The problem is that you can't cram a signal moving at 10 Mbps : > through a radio interface designed for 256K, even if it is bandwidth : > limited to 256K. I'm hoping the 3C503 is ancient enough that I can slow : > it down by yanking it's 20. MHz crystal oscillator and feeding it a : > lower speed signal. I'm going to walk them down to see just how far I : > can go. After all, 2 Mbps isn't bad, it just requires a little more : > work. : : What about ARCnet? I have some frequecy hopping radio modems that use the 82593 to get 256kbps or so... Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: Are the ethernet drivers time dependent?
: I have some frequecy hopping radio modems that use the 82593 to get : 256kbps or so... Speaking of which, I'll give two free to someone that commits to writing a driver for these beasts. It would be an excellent chance for reverse engineering skills to be honed. :-) I would prefer someone local to boulder/denver Colorado, but I can't be too picky. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: Are the ethernet drivers time dependent?
On Sun, 29 Aug 1999, Warner Losh wrote: > : I have some frequecy hopping radio modems that use the 82593 to get > : 256kbps or so... > > Speaking of which, I'll give two free to someone that commits to > writing a driver for these beasts. It would be an excellent chance > for reverse engineering skills to be honed. :-) I would prefer > someone local to boulder/denver Colorado, but I can't be too picky. Arcnet drivers? Already written by some chap from one of the former Soviet block countries. Actually he ported the NetBSD Amiga code. I've been meaning to take a look at it and do something with it but I've not had the time to investigate the NetBSD ARP code changes that it would require. Of course, I'm assuming that your boards are compatible with the standard ARCnet programming interface... -- | Matthew N. Dodd | '78 Datsun 280Z | '75 Volvo 164E | FreeBSD/NetBSD | | win...@jurai.net | 2 x '84 Volvo 245DL| ix86,sparc,pmax | | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | This Space For Rent | ISO8802.5 4ever | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: Are the ethernet drivers time dependent?
In message "Matthew N. Dodd" writes: : Of course, I'm assuming that your boards are compatible with the ARCnet : standard programming interface... Actually, no. They are Ethernet drivers with an underdocumented interface. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: Are the ethernet drivers time dependent?
hi, there! On Mon, 30 Aug 1999, Matthew N. Dodd wrote: > > : I have some frequecy hopping radio modems that use the 82593 to get > > : 256kbps or so... > > > > Speaking of which, I'll give two free to someone that commits to > > writing a driver for these beasts. It would be an excellent chance > > for reverse engineering skills to be honed. :-) I would prefer > > someone local to boulder/denver Colorado, but I can't be too picky. > > Arcnet drivers? Already written by some chap from one of the former > Soviet block countries. Actually he ported the NetBSD Amiga code. I've > been meaning to take a look at it and do something with it but I've not > had the time to investigate the NetBSD ARP code changes that it would > require. it was me. arcnet driver is available at http://iclub.nsu.ru/~fjoe unfortunately i do not have time to deal with it now. hope i will have some in near future. btw i'd be happy if someone took a look at those ARP code changes. With those changes committed it would be easier to merge this driver (at least to -current) as our current implementation is ethernet-specific. just look at token ring hacks in if_ether.c -- i do not want to add more hacks for arcnet. /fjoe To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: Are the ethernet drivers time dependent?
On Fri, 27 Aug 1999, Kris Kirby wrote: > I know there are drivers for the WaveLan card, but I'm looking at going > even slower (256Kb!). Why do you wnat to do this? If for bandwidht limiting you need look no further than 'dummynet'. -- | Matthew N. Dodd | '78 Datsun 280Z | '75 Volvo 164E | FreeBSD/NetBSD | | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | 2 x '84 Volvo 245DL| ix86,sparc,pmax | | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | This Space For Rent | ISO8802.5 4ever | To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: Are the ethernet drivers time dependent?
Matthew N. Dodd wrote: > > On Fri, 27 Aug 1999, Kris Kirby wrote: > > I know there are drivers for the WaveLan card, but I'm looking at going > > even slower (256Kb!). > Why do you wnat to do this? If for bandwidht limiting you need look no > further than 'dummynet'. It's not a bandwidth issue; it's a speed issue. I'm trying to find an extremely cheap way to get data in and out of a PC. I've got the National Semiconductor application sheets for the 8392(?) and plan on using one "cut in half": Half duplex, but split into seperate TX and RX lines. I'm also looking at a scaleable way to go up or down in speed, without dealing with async... A layer two device if you will. -- Kris Kirby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> --- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: Are the ethernet drivers time dependent?
On Fri, 27 Aug 1999, Kris Kirby wrote: > It's not a bandwidth issue; it's a speed issue. I'm trying to find an > extremely cheap way to get data in and out of a PC. How about an I2C bus? (Or is that -too- slow?) -- | Matthew N. Dodd | '78 Datsun 280Z | '75 Volvo 164E | FreeBSD/NetBSD | | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | 2 x '84 Volvo 245DL| ix86,sparc,pmax | | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | This Space For Rent | ISO8802.5 4ever | To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: Are the ethernet drivers time dependent?
plip? On Fri, 27 Aug 1999, Matthew N. Dodd wrote: > On Fri, 27 Aug 1999, Kris Kirby wrote: > > It's not a bandwidth issue; it's a speed issue. I'm trying to find an > > extremely cheap way to get data in and out of a PC. > > How about an I2C bus? > > (Or is that -too- slow?) > > -- > | Matthew N. Dodd | '78 Datsun 280Z | '75 Volvo 164E | FreeBSD/NetBSD | > | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | 2 x '84 Volvo 245DL| ix86,sparc,pmax | > | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | This Space For Rent | ISO8802.5 4ever | > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: Are the ethernet drivers time dependent?
On 28-Aug-99 Kris Kirby wrote: > It's not a bandwidth issue; it's a speed issue. I'm trying to find an > extremely cheap way to get data in and out of a PC. I've got the > National Semiconductor application sheets for the 8392(?) and plan on > using one "cut in half": Half duplex, but split into seperate TX and RX > lines. I'm also looking at a scaleable way to go up or down in speed, > without dealing with async... A layer two device if you will. RS232? RS485? VERY cheap and the later is at least moderatly resistant to noise :) --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum PGP signature
Re: Are the ethernet drivers time dependent?
Matthew N. Dodd wrote: > > On Fri, 27 Aug 1999, Kris Kirby wrote: > > It's not a bandwidth issue; it's a speed issue. I'm trying to find an > > extremely cheap way to get data in and out of a PC. > > How about an I2C bus? > > (Or is that -too- slow?) I'll have to admit I'm totally ignorant of what this is. -- Kris Kirby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> --- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: Are the ethernet drivers time dependent?
Julian Elischer wrote: > > plip? > Ideally, no. The ethernet card makes the data rather easy to handle into other means (like a radio modem). It's already serialized, packetized, has a MAC address for a link address, and it's easy to get seperate RX and TX lines out of the card, even if it is 10Base-2 (BNC). The idea is to eliminate other hardware in order to drop cost and complication. -- Kris Kirby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> --- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: Are the ethernet drivers time dependent?
Daniel O'Connor wrote: > > On 28-Aug-99 Kris Kirby wrote: > > It's not a bandwidth issue; it's a speed issue. I'm trying to find an > > extremely cheap way to get data in and out of a PC. I've got the > > National Semiconductor application sheets for the 8392(?) and plan on > > using one "cut in half": Half duplex, but split into seperate TX and RX > > lines. I'm also looking at a scaleable way to go up or down in speed, > > without dealing with async... A layer two device if you will. > > RS232? RS485? VERY cheap and the later is at least moderatly resistant to noise > :) Noise shouldn't be an issue. It's going to be handling "clean" data. By cheap, I mean $5 a pop or so. I've got a few 3C503s that I feel like cutting into. I'm going to be bearing the financial end of this project of mine, so I'm going to save where I can. :-) -- Kris Kirby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> --- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: Are the ethernet drivers time dependent?
On 28-Aug-99 Kris Kirby wrote: > > RS232? RS485? VERY cheap and the later is at least moderatly resistant to > > noise > Noise shouldn't be an issue. It's going to be handling "clean" data. By > cheap, I mean $5 a pop or so. I've got a few 3C503s that I feel like > cutting into. I'm going to be bearing the financial end of this project > of mine, so I'm going to save where I can. :-) Well serial ports come free on all new computers ;) --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum PGP signature
Re: Are the ethernet drivers time dependent?
USB? http://www.activewire.com/ has a nice board that does I2C as well. With a bit of plumbing you should be able to stream out 100kb a second. Nick On Fri, 27 Aug 1999, Julian Elischer wrote: > plip? > > > On Fri, 27 Aug 1999, Matthew N. Dodd wrote: > > > On Fri, 27 Aug 1999, Kris Kirby wrote: > > > It's not a bandwidth issue; it's a speed issue. I'm trying to find an > > > extremely cheap way to get data in and out of a PC. > > > > How about an I2C bus? > > > > (Or is that -too- slow?) > > > > -- > > | Matthew N. Dodd | '78 Datsun 280Z | '75 Volvo 164E | FreeBSD/NetBSD | > > | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | 2 x '84 Volvo 245DL| ix86,sparc,pmax | > > | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | This Space For Rent | ISO8802.5 4ever | > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > -- e-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: Are the ethernet drivers time dependent?
Daniel O'Connor wrote: > > On 28-Aug-99 Kris Kirby wrote: > > > RS232? RS485? VERY cheap and the later is at least moderatly resistant to > > > noise > > Noise shouldn't be an issue. It's going to be handling "clean" data. By > > cheap, I mean $5 a pop or so. I've got a few 3C503s that I feel like > > cutting into. I'm going to be bearing the financial end of this project > > of mine, so I'm going to save where I can. :-) > > Well serial ports come free on all new computers ;) You're right, I should have clarifed. I'm looking to break 128K. I don't have any serial ports that I can jumper up to 460 or 230 kbps. Additionally, 256K is a nice round number :-). I'm not looking to invest in new hardware, and I can save on a bit of hardware by letting the NIC worry about the link. The NIC also greatly simplies the system. At worst, I'd need a machine with a 3C503 and a NE2000. And then I'll probably use dummynet for bandwidth limiting over the link so it doesn't get flooded. I'm going to be building at least three of these units, assuming I get the technical issues out of the way. So I'm looking at a cheap (hardware and software) way of getting data in and out of a PC with IP support and such. It just makes sense in my POV to use a NIC. It's capable of 10 Mbps and has most of the circuitry for preparing data for transmission on it. If you will, it's a ready to use data pump. -- Kris Kirby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> --- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: Are the ethernet drivers time dependent?
> Well serial ports come free on all new computers ;) You mean like the PC 2000 that _only_ comes with USB and for which you will have to buy a USB->serial converter that might not handle the signalling you had in mind? :-) Nick http://www.etla.net/~n_hibma/usb/usb.pl -- e-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: Are the ethernet drivers time dependent?
Daniel O'Connor wrote: > > On 28-Aug-99 Kris Kirby wrote: > > I'm going to be building at least three of these units, assuming I get > > the technical issues out of the way. So I'm looking at a cheap (hardware > > and software) way of getting data in and out of a PC with IP support and > > such. It just makes sense in my POV to use a NIC. It's capable of 10 > > Mbps and has most of the circuitry for preparing data for transmission > > on it. If you will, it's a ready to use data pump. > > Ahh I see.. > So you're basically making a ethernet->radio type of thing? > > Or actually mangling the card itself? Both. The problem is that you can't cram a signal moving at 10 Mbps through a radio interface designed for 256K, even if it is bandwidth limited to 256K. I'm hoping the 3C503 is ancient enough that I can slow it down by yanking it's 20. MHz crystal oscillator and feeding it a lower speed signal. I'm going to walk them down to see just how far I can go. After all, 2 Mbps isn't bad, it just requires a little more work. -- Kris Kirby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> --- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: Are the ethernet drivers time dependent?
On 28-Aug-99 Kris Kirby wrote: > Both. The problem is that you can't cram a signal moving at 10 Mbps > through a radio interface designed for 256K, even if it is bandwidth > limited to 256K. I'm hoping the 3C503 is ancient enough that I can slow > it down by yanking it's 20. MHz crystal oscillator and feeding it a > lower speed signal. I'm going to walk them down to see just how far I > can go. After all, 2 Mbps isn't bad, it just requires a little more > work. Ahh eeww :) I hope you have a lot of spare time ;) --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum PGP signature
Re: Are the ethernet drivers time dependent?
> > Both. The problem is that you can't cram a signal moving at 10 Mbps > through a radio interface designed for 256K, even if it is bandwidth > limited to 256K. I'm hoping the 3C503 is ancient enough that I can slow > it down by yanking it's 20. MHz crystal oscillator and feeding it a > lower speed signal. I'm going to walk them down to see just how far I > can go. After all, 2 Mbps isn't bad, it just requires a little more > work. The 8390 should be functional down to 1MHz or so, and I don't think that signal is used for any other chip functions. You can take the i82586 a lot slower; I recall several S/HDLC-like cards that used them as USRTs in the hundreds of kilobits per second range. Bearing in mind that both the 8390 and the 82586 were designed back when 10MBps was "fast" ethernet. -- \\ The mind's the standard \\ Mike Smith \\ of the man. \\ [EMAIL PROTECTED] \\-- Joseph Merrick \\ [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: Are the ethernet drivers time dependent?
On Sat, 28 Aug 1999, Kris Kirby wrote: > Both. The problem is that you can't cram a signal moving at 10 Mbps > through a radio interface designed for 256K, even if it is bandwidth > limited to 256K. I'm hoping the 3C503 is ancient enough that I can slow > it down by yanking it's 20. MHz crystal oscillator and feeding it a > lower speed signal. I'm going to walk them down to see just how far I > can go. After all, 2 Mbps isn't bad, it just requires a little more > work. What about ARCnet? -- | Matthew N. Dodd | '78 Datsun 280Z | '75 Volvo 164E | FreeBSD/NetBSD | | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | 2 x '84 Volvo 245DL| ix86,sparc,pmax | | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | This Space For Rent | ISO8802.5 4ever | To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: Are the ethernet drivers time dependent?
Matthew N. Dodd wrote: > > On Sat, 28 Aug 1999, Kris Kirby wrote: > > Both. The problem is that you can't cram a signal moving at 10 Mbps > > through a radio interface designed for 256K, even if it is bandwidth > > limited to 256K. I'm hoping the 3C503 is ancient enough that I can slow > > it down by yanking it's 20. MHz crystal oscillator and feeding it a > > lower speed signal. I'm going to walk them down to see just how far I > > can go. After all, 2 Mbps isn't bad, it just requires a little more > > work. > > What about ARCnet? I've never used it / don't know the technical specs. -- Kris Kirby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> --- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: Are the ethernet drivers time dependent?
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> "Matthew N. Dodd" writes: : On Sat, 28 Aug 1999, Kris Kirby wrote: : > Both. The problem is that you can't cram a signal moving at 10 Mbps : > through a radio interface designed for 256K, even if it is bandwidth : > limited to 256K. I'm hoping the 3C503 is ancient enough that I can slow : > it down by yanking it's 20. MHz crystal oscillator and feeding it a : > lower speed signal. I'm going to walk them down to see just how far I : > can go. After all, 2 Mbps isn't bad, it just requires a little more : > work. : : What about ARCnet? I have some frequecy hopping radio modems that use the 82593 to get 256kbps or so... Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: Are the ethernet drivers time dependent?
: I have some frequecy hopping radio modems that use the 82593 to get : 256kbps or so... Speaking of which, I'll give two free to someone that commits to writing a driver for these beasts. It would be an excellent chance for reverse engineering skills to be honed. :-) I would prefer someone local to boulder/denver Colorado, but I can't be too picky. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: Are the ethernet drivers time dependent?
On Sun, 29 Aug 1999, Warner Losh wrote: > : I have some frequecy hopping radio modems that use the 82593 to get > : 256kbps or so... > > Speaking of which, I'll give two free to someone that commits to > writing a driver for these beasts. It would be an excellent chance > for reverse engineering skills to be honed. :-) I would prefer > someone local to boulder/denver Colorado, but I can't be too picky. Arcnet drivers? Already written by some chap from one of the former Soviet block countries. Actually he ported the NetBSD Amiga code. I've been meaning to take a look at it and do something with it but I've not had the time to investigate the NetBSD ARP code changes that it would require. Of course, I'm assuming that your boards are compatible with the standard ARCnet programming interface... -- | Matthew N. Dodd | '78 Datsun 280Z | '75 Volvo 164E | FreeBSD/NetBSD | | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | 2 x '84 Volvo 245DL| ix86,sparc,pmax | | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | This Space For Rent | ISO8802.5 4ever | To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: Are the ethernet drivers time dependent?
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> "Matthew N. Dodd" writes: : Of course, I'm assuming that your boards are compatible with the ARCnet : standard programming interface... Actually, no. They are Ethernet drivers with an underdocumented interface. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Re: Are the ethernet drivers time dependent?
hi, there! On Mon, 30 Aug 1999, Matthew N. Dodd wrote: > > : I have some frequecy hopping radio modems that use the 82593 to get > > : 256kbps or so... > > > > Speaking of which, I'll give two free to someone that commits to > > writing a driver for these beasts. It would be an excellent chance > > for reverse engineering skills to be honed. :-) I would prefer > > someone local to boulder/denver Colorado, but I can't be too picky. > > Arcnet drivers? Already written by some chap from one of the former > Soviet block countries. Actually he ported the NetBSD Amiga code. I've > been meaning to take a look at it and do something with it but I've not > had the time to investigate the NetBSD ARP code changes that it would > require. it was me. arcnet driver is available at http://iclub.nsu.ru/~fjoe unfortunately i do not have time to deal with it now. hope i will have some in near future. btw i'd be happy if someone took a look at those ARP code changes. With those changes committed it would be easier to merge this driver (at least to -current) as our current implementation is ethernet-specific. just look at token ring hacks in if_ether.c -- i do not want to add more hacks for arcnet. /fjoe To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Cheap link (was: Are the ethernet drivers time dependent?)
On Saturday, 28 August 1999 at 2:52:12 -0500, Kris Kirby wrote: > Daniel O'Connor wrote: >> >> On 28-Aug-99 Kris Kirby wrote: RS232? RS485? VERY cheap and the later is at least moderatly resistant to noise >>> Noise shouldn't be an issue. It's going to be handling "clean" data. By >>> cheap, I mean $5 a pop or so. I've got a few 3C503s that I feel like >>> cutting into. I'm going to be bearing the financial end of this project >>> of mine, so I'm going to save where I can. :-) >> >> Well serial ports come free on all new computers ;) > > You're right, I should have clarifed. I'm looking to break 128K. I don't > have any serial ports that I can jumper up to 460 or 230 kbps. > Additionally, 256K is a nice round number :-). So what's wrong with PLIP? Last time I used it, I was getting about 50 kB/s out of it. > I'm not looking to invest in new hardware, and I can save on a bit > of hardware by letting the NIC worry about the link. The NIC also > greatly simplies the system. At worst, I'd need a machine with a > 3C503 and a NE2000. And then I'll probably use dummynet for > bandwidth limiting over the link so it doesn't get flooded. > > I'm going to be building at least three of these units, assuming I get > the technical issues out of the way. So I'm looking at a cheap (hardware > and software) way of getting data in and out of a PC with IP support and > such. It just makes sense in my POV to use a NIC. It's capable of 10 > Mbps and has most of the circuitry for preparing data for transmission > on it. If you will, it's a ready to use data pump. I think the technical issues will be your problem. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger g...@lemis.com for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
Cheap link (was: Are the ethernet drivers time dependent?)
On Saturday, 28 August 1999 at 2:52:12 -0500, Kris Kirby wrote: > Daniel O'Connor wrote: >> >> On 28-Aug-99 Kris Kirby wrote: RS232? RS485? VERY cheap and the later is at least moderatly resistant to noise >>> Noise shouldn't be an issue. It's going to be handling "clean" data. By >>> cheap, I mean $5 a pop or so. I've got a few 3C503s that I feel like >>> cutting into. I'm going to be bearing the financial end of this project >>> of mine, so I'm going to save where I can. :-) >> >> Well serial ports come free on all new computers ;) > > You're right, I should have clarifed. I'm looking to break 128K. I don't > have any serial ports that I can jumper up to 460 or 230 kbps. > Additionally, 256K is a nice round number :-). So what's wrong with PLIP? Last time I used it, I was getting about 50 kB/s out of it. > I'm not looking to invest in new hardware, and I can save on a bit > of hardware by letting the NIC worry about the link. The NIC also > greatly simplies the system. At worst, I'd need a machine with a > 3C503 and a NE2000. And then I'll probably use dummynet for > bandwidth limiting over the link so it doesn't get flooded. > > I'm going to be building at least three of these units, assuming I get > the technical issues out of the way. So I'm looking at a cheap (hardware > and software) way of getting data in and out of a PC with IP support and > such. It just makes sense in my POV to use a NIC. It's capable of 10 > Mbps and has most of the circuitry for preparing data for transmission > on it. If you will, it's a ready to use data pump. I think the technical issues will be your problem. Greg -- See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP public key To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
RE: Cheap link (was: Are the ethernet drivers time dependent?)
On 28-Aug-99 Greg Lehey wrote: > So what's wrong with PLIP? Last time I used it, I was getting about > 50 kB/s out of it. PLIP has a terrible CPU/speed ratio.. You have to busy wait while bashing the parallel port which is just yech :( --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum pgpgYrcq723gK.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Cheap link (was: Are the ethernet drivers time dependent?)
Greg Lehey wrote: > > I'm going to be building at least three of these units, assuming I get > > the technical issues out of the way. So I'm looking at a cheap (hardware > > and software) way of getting data in and out of a PC with IP support and > > such. It just makes sense in my POV to use a NIC. It's capable of 10 > > Mbps and has most of the circuitry for preparing data for transmission > > on it. If you will, it's a ready to use data pump. > > I think the technical issues will be your problem. Well, yeah. :-) High speed FHSS equipment is rather complicated and requires come pretty accurate (TXCO?) signal sources. There are going to be problems. If I can't use a ethernet card, I've got a MCU in mind to do the job. -- Kris Kirby --- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
RE: Cheap link (was: Are the ethernet drivers time dependent?)
On 28-Aug-99 Greg Lehey wrote: > So what's wrong with PLIP? Last time I used it, I was getting about > 50 kB/s out of it. PLIP has a terrible CPU/speed ratio.. You have to busy wait while bashing the parallel port which is just yech :( --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum PGP signature
Re: Cheap link (was: Are the ethernet drivers time dependent?)
Greg Lehey wrote: > > I'm going to be building at least three of these units, assuming I get > > the technical issues out of the way. So I'm looking at a cheap (hardware > > and software) way of getting data in and out of a PC with IP support and > > such. It just makes sense in my POV to use a NIC. It's capable of 10 > > Mbps and has most of the circuitry for preparing data for transmission > > on it. If you will, it's a ready to use data pump. > > I think the technical issues will be your problem. Well, yeah. :-) High speed FHSS equipment is rather complicated and requires come pretty accurate (TXCO?) signal sources. There are going to be problems. If I can't use a ethernet card, I've got a MCU in mind to do the job. -- Kris Kirby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> --- TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
