subject:"GSoC"


 Our kernel is actually very easy to configure, so I'm not convinced that
 it's needed; you may be thinking of Linux's menuconfig, but I think that is
 because of the complexity.

 Chris



While configuring the kernel may be trivial to someone who understands the
process and their systems needs, I am thinking of a software tool that goes
beyond the scope of the occasional generating of a kernel configuration
file.

Imagine that you have a number of systems and you want to run kernels that
are lighter weight than the generic kernel but each system has its own
individual needs. A GUI could help manage a large number of custom kernels,
and provide access to convenient access to features such as specifying a
kernel to load on the next boot only for testing. You could even configure
the custom kernel profiles to be built from separate source directories.

That is not to say of course that everyone else using x11 couldn't benefit
from it as well. The application could help avoid compatibility issues
during kernel installation by comparing the kernel's version to the version
of world. Some helpful aids would be visual categorization of options as
well as option descriptions, caveats, and hyperlinks to more in depth
information.

As for its place in Google Summer of Code, you could be right, it may not
be enough to dedicate such resources. I know however that I would use it,
maybe others would as well? Thank you for your advice once again Chris!
What do you think about the other utilities?

Justin Muniz
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Re: GSOC: Qt front-ends

2013-04-24 Thread Freddie Cash

On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 9:18 AM, Tony Li tony...@tony.li wrote:


 On Apr 24, 2013, at 5:43 AM, Lars Engels lars.eng...@0x20.net wrote:

  It _is_ easy. But having a nice graphical tool which draws a pretty
 table of
  GENERIC and NOTES together with useful information about the possible
 options
  and devices would be a handy thing to have IMHO.
  Let's make FreeBSD userfriendly :-)


 Side note: I agree that we would really, really like FreeBSD more user
 friendly.

 However, is kernel configuration where we really want to start?  Just how
 much of the user base reconfigures their kernels, anyway?  Wouldn't effort
 be better spent on making normal installation, maintenance and deployment
 clean and easy?


Mostly off-topic for this thread, but improving the boot process to
auto-detect hardware and auto-load kernel modules would be really nice.
That way, GENERIC would be very small, with just the basic frameworks
required (CAM, USB, PCI, TCP/IP, etc), and all the actual drivers would be
loaded from modules.  That would remove almost all requirements to compile
a custom kernel in the first place.  :)

Granted, changing options in the kernel would require recompilation, but
general use and hardware changes wouldn't.

Most likely not a GSoC project.  But it's still a nice dream.  :)
-- 
Freddie Cash
fjwc...@gmail.com
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Re: Fwd: GSOC: Qt front-ends

2013-04-24 Thread Chris Rees

On 24 April 2013 18:30, Justin Edward Muniz justin.mu...@maine.edu wrote:
 Our kernel is actually very easy to configure, so I'm not convinced that
 it's needed; you may be thinking of Linux's menuconfig, but I think that is
 because of the complexity.

 Chris



 While configuring the kernel may be trivial to someone who understands the
 process and their systems needs, I am thinking of a software tool that goes
 beyond the scope of the occasional generating of a kernel configuration
 file.

 Imagine that you have a number of systems and you want to run kernels that
 are lighter weight than the generic kernel but each system has its own
 individual needs. A GUI could help manage a large number of custom kernels,
 and provide access to convenient access to features such as specifying a
 kernel to load on the next boot only for testing. You could even configure
 the custom kernel profiles to be built from separate source directories.

 That is not to say of course that everyone else using x11 couldn't benefit
 from it as well. The application could help avoid compatibility issues
 during kernel installation by comparing the kernel's version to the version
 of world. Some helpful aids would be visual categorization of options as
 well as option descriptions, caveats, and hyperlinks to more in depth
 information.

 As for its place in Google Summer of Code, you could be right, it may not be
 enough to dedicate such resources. I know however that I would use it, maybe
 others would as well? Thank you for your advice once again Chris! What do
 you think about the other utilities?

I think the interface to pkgng and freebsd-update are still
interesting; at least more worthwhile than the kernel configuration
one.

I think the pkgng one has the edge, since packages are updated far
more often than base, and it's easier to track base.

Now you are at a stage where you should make your own decision; which
one looks the most interesting to you?  Once you decide on an area of
interest, you can just start hacking :)

Chris
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Fwd: GSOC: Qt front-ends


  I agree. Also, the kind of people who compile their kernels probably
 feel more comfortable in console mode :)

 The frontend for pkgng and freebsd-update might have a bigger user base.



Hello Fernando, thank you for pointing me towards kports earlier. I
appreciate your help.

It is starting to seem that there is more interest in the GUI pkgng and
freebsd-update utilities at present. I do intend to pursue two out of three
of them on my time eventually; I'd like to use them all, and see others
benefit from them as well. GUI is my forté.

Justin Muniz
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Re: GSOC: Qt front-ends


 Mostly off-topic for this thread, but improving the boot process to
 auto-detect hardware and auto-load kernel modules would be really nice.
 That way, GENERIC would be very small, with just the basic frameworks
 required (CAM, USB, PCI, TCP/IP, etc), and all the actual drivers would be
 loaded from modules.  That would remove almost all requirements to compile
 a custom kernel in the first place.  :)

 Granted, changing options in the kernel would require recompilation, but
 general use and hardware changes wouldn't.

 Most likely not a GSoC project.  But it's still a nice dream.  :)
 --
 Freddie Cash
 fjwc...@gmail.com



I really like that idea. If I remember correctly some folks over at PC-BSD
have started creating scripts to load sound and graphics drivers. Your idea
may be closer to reality than you think!

Justin Muniz
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Fwd: GSOC: Qt front-ends


 I think the interface to pkgng and freebsd-update are still
 interesting; at least more worthwhile than the kernel configuration
 one.

 I think the pkgng one has the edge, since packages are updated far
 more often than base, and it's easier to track base.

 Now you are at a stage where you should make your own decision; which
 one looks the most interesting to you?  Once you decide on an area of
 interest, you can just start hacking :)

 Chris



That's good to hear.

I am sure that you are right, a pkgng GUI would probably see more use in
general. I am definitely close to making my decision, but this thread has
been so much help, I am glad for the insight.

The coding is what I look forward to the most :D

Justin Muniz
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Re: GSOC: Qt front-ends

2013-04-24 Thread Freddie Cash

On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 11:03 AM, Justin Edward Muniz 
justin.mu...@maine.edu wrote:

 
  I think the interface to pkgng and freebsd-update are still
  interesting; at least more worthwhile than the kernel configuration
  one.
 
  I think the pkgng one has the edge, since packages are updated far
  more often than base, and it's easier to track base.
 
  Now you are at a stage where you should make your own decision; which
  one looks the most interesting to you?  Once you decide on an area of
  interest, you can just start hacking :)
 
  Chris
 


 That's good to hear.

 I am sure that you are right, a pkgng GUI would probably see more use in
 general. I am definitely close to making my decision, but this thread has
 been so much help, I am glad for the insight.

 The coding is what I look forward to the most :D


You'll probably want to get in touch with the PC-BSD folks.  As they are
moving to pkgng for everything, they are updating their Python-based GUIs
to work with it.  Might be a possibility to work together, or to build off
what they have, or to get ideas/inspiration for a more general tool.

For example, (going from memory of my home PC-BSD install) the System
Update or System Manager tool uses pkgng behind the scenes, and provides a
tree-based view of PC-BSD-specific packages that can be installed via
simply ticking checkboxes and hitting Install button.

And, they have a ports-based GUI tool as well, although I have not used it
as yet so couldn't tell you what it supports.  I do my ports-based installs
via a terminal.  :)

-- 
Freddie Cash
fjwc...@gmail.com
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Re: Fwd: GSOC: Qt front-ends


  It _is_ easy. But having a nice graphical tool which draws a pretty table
 of
 GENERIC and NOTES together with useful information about the possible
 options
 and devices would be a handy thing to have IMHO.
 Let's make FreeBSD userfriendly :-)



I agree completely, hopefully we can make that happen. I imagine that the
people using a kernel management utility would probably have configured it
by hand before, but could benefit from a GUI in some way. Quick access to
information is a good benefit to any GUI.

Justin Muniz
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Re: Fwd: GSOC: Qt front-ends


 During some tests with cut down kernels one can easily make unbuildable
 kernel, for example include option A, while omit hiddenly required B.
 If there could be framework at least with deps tracking/checking, what
 could be good for begin.
 Both for configuring, and code clean up.
 If this will come up in GUI - that would be awesome.


 Especially if it handles dependencies!  For example, check USB Disk
 Support, and have scbus, da, etc enabled automatically.  Or having the
 LIBICONV stuff enabled if you add MSDOSFS support.  And so on.

Dependency checking and resolution is a really great idea. Thank you both
for voicing your thoughts!
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Re: GSOC: Qt front-ends


 Side note: I agree that we would really, really like FreeBSD more user
 friendly.

 However, is kernel configuration where we really want to start?  Just how
 much of the user base reconfigures their kernels, anyway?  Wouldn't effort
 be better spent on making normal installation, maintenance and deployment
 clean and easy?

 Regards,
 Tony



What you say makes a lot of sense. I am feeling confident that the kernel
GUI should be a lower priority, and not used for the GSoC proposal.

Thank you for your time.

Justin Muniz
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Re: GSOC: Qt front-ends


On Apr 24, 2013, at 11:10 AM, Freddie Cash wrote:

On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 11:03 AM, Justin Edward Muniz 
justin.mu...@maine.edumailto:justin.mu...@maine.edu wrote:


I think the interface to pkgng and freebsd-update are still
interesting; at least more worthwhile than the kernel configuration
one.

I think the pkgng one has the edge, since packages are updated far
more often than base, and it's easier to track base.

Now you are at a stage where you should make your own decision; which
one looks the most interesting to you?  Once you decide on an area of
interest, you can just start hacking :)

Chris



That's good to hear.

I am sure that you are right, a pkgng GUI would probably see more use in
general. I am definitely close to making my decision, but this thread has
been so much help, I am glad for the insight.

The coding is what I look forward to the most :D


You'll probably want to get in touch with the PC-BSD folks.  As they are
moving to pkgng for everything, they are updating their Python-based GUIs
to work with it.  Might be a possibility to work together, or to build off
what they have, or to get ideas/inspiration for a more general tool.

For example, (going from memory of my home PC-BSD install) the System
Update or System Manager tool uses pkgng behind the scenes, and provides a
tree-based view of PC-BSD-specific packages that can be installed via
simply ticking checkboxes and hitting Install button.

And, they have a ports-based GUI tool as well, although I have not used it
as yet so couldn't tell you what it supports.  I do my ports-based installs
via a terminal.  :)


I've been planning a pkgng management tool in base for a while now (and am 
closing in on that goal).

The tool is bsdconfig

It's relevant to this discussion because it supports running both in GUI and in 
TUI.

This is accomplished by using dialog(1) for TUI and Xdialog(1) (from ports) for 
GUI. One code base, two modes.

The package management is being implemented as a bsdconfig(8) module in HEAD 
(see usr.sbin/bsdconfig).

Executing bsdconfig packages produces something inspired by sysinstall but 
greatly improved (faster, cleaner, more efficient, and provides more data).

Here's a screenshot:
http://twitpic.com/ci2rid

Sorry, no screenshot of the X11 side yet.

Executing bsdconfig -X packages or bsdconfig packages -X gives you the X11 
GUI.

Is it the flashiest GUI you've ever seen? Far from it. But when I've demo'd the 
code, people have been generally positive about the approach.

Just wanted to let you know what my plans are.

Feel free to go full-boar with a Qt-based front-end, just wanted to let you 
know what I'm cooking in HEAD.
--
Devin

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Re: Fwd: GSOC: Qt front-ends

2013-04-24 Thread Baptiste Daroussin

On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 02:03:56PM -0400, Justin Edward Muniz wrote:
 
  I think the interface to pkgng and freebsd-update are still
  interesting; at least more worthwhile than the kernel configuration
  one.
 
  I think the pkgng one has the edge, since packages are updated far
  more often than base, and it's easier to track base.
 
  Now you are at a stage where you should make your own decision; which
  one looks the most interesting to you?  Once you decide on an area of
  interest, you can just start hacking :)
 
  Chris
 
 
 
 That's good to hear.
 
 I am sure that you are right, a pkgng GUI would probably see more use in
 general. I am definitely close to making my decision, but this thread has
 been so much help, I am glad for the insight.
 
 The coding is what I look forward to the most :D

imho a pkgng frontend should be done via packagekit, just write a pkgng backend
for packagekit and you will gain for FreeBSD a KDE frontend and a GTK frontend.

That said any frontend at convenience to contributor will be anyway good :)

regards,
Bapt


pgpNCIZpQMvf5.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: GSOC: Qt front-ends

On Apr 24, 2013, at 11:51 AM, Teske, Devin wrote:


On Apr 24, 2013, at 11:10 AM, Freddie Cash wrote:

On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 11:03 AM, Justin Edward Muniz 
justin.mu...@maine.edumailto:justin.mu...@maine.edu wrote:


I think the interface to pkgng and freebsd-update are still
interesting; at least more worthwhile than the kernel configuration
one.

I think the pkgng one has the edge, since packages are updated far
more often than base, and it's easier to track base.

Now you are at a stage where you should make your own decision; which
one looks the most interesting to you?  Once you decide on an area of
interest, you can just start hacking :)

Chris



That's good to hear.

I am sure that you are right, a pkgng GUI would probably see more use in
general. I am definitely close to making my decision, but this thread has
been so much help, I am glad for the insight.

The coding is what I look forward to the most :D


You'll probably want to get in touch with the PC-BSD folks.  As they are
moving to pkgng for everything, they are updating their Python-based GUIs
to work with it.  Might be a possibility to work together, or to build off
what they have, or to get ideas/inspiration for a more general tool.

For example, (going from memory of my home PC-BSD install) the System
Update or System Manager tool uses pkgng behind the scenes, and provides a
tree-based view of PC-BSD-specific packages that can be installed via
simply ticking checkboxes and hitting Install button.

And, they have a ports-based GUI tool as well, although I have not used it
as yet so couldn't tell you what it supports.  I do my ports-based installs
via a terminal.  :)


I've been planning a pkgng management tool in base for a while now (and am 
closing in on that goal).

The tool is bsdconfig

It's relevant to this discussion because it supports running both in GUI and in 
TUI.

This is accomplished by using dialog(1) for TUI and Xdialog(1) (from ports) for 
GUI. One code base, two modes.

The package management is being implemented as a bsdconfig(8) module in HEAD 
(see usr.sbin/bsdconfig).


Clarification:

The module is being *implemented* in HEAD, but is being *developed* on 
SF.nethttp://SF.net (URL Below):

http://druidbsd.sf.net/download/bsdconfig/

Right now, if you download the latest tarball from that directory 
(bsdconfig.YYMMDD-#.tgz) and replace usr.sbin/bsdconfig in your checked-out 
tree, you'll have ~1500 lines more than HEAD (at the time of this writing).

My plan is to (before the next BAFUG) commit the packages module in one swift 
action (hence why I'm developing it outside of the main tree).
--
Devin



Executing bsdconfig packages produces something inspired by sysinstall but 
greatly improved (faster, cleaner, more efficient, and provides more data).

Here's a screenshot:
http://twitpic.com/ci2rid

Sorry, no screenshot of the X11 side yet.

Executing bsdconfig -X packages or bsdconfig packages -X gives you the X11 
GUI.

Is it the flashiest GUI you've ever seen? Far from it. But when I've demo'd the 
code, people have been generally positive about the approach.

Just wanted to let you know what my plans are.

Feel free to go full-boar with a Qt-based front-end, just wanted to let you 
know what I'm cooking in HEAD.
--
Devin

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Re: GSOC: Qt front-ends


On Apr 24, 2013, at 11:54 AM, Baptiste Daroussin wrote:

 On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 02:03:56PM -0400, Justin Edward Muniz wrote:
 
 I think the interface to pkgng and freebsd-update are still
 interesting; at least more worthwhile than the kernel configuration
 one.
 
 I think the pkgng one has the edge, since packages are updated far
 more often than base, and it's easier to track base.
 
 Now you are at a stage where you should make your own decision; which
 one looks the most interesting to you?  Once you decide on an area of
 interest, you can just start hacking :)
 
 Chris
 
 
 
 That's good to hear.
 
 I am sure that you are right, a pkgng GUI would probably see more use in
 general. I am definitely close to making my decision, but this thread has
 been so much help, I am glad for the insight.
 
 The coding is what I look forward to the most :D
 
 imho a pkgng frontend should be done via packagekit, just write a pkgng 
 backend
 for packagekit and you will gain for FreeBSD a KDE frontend and a GTK 
 frontend.
 
 That said any frontend at convenience to contributor will be anyway good :)
 

If you could pardon my ignorance… but what is packagekit again (for the benefit 
of others)?
-- 
Devin

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Re: GSOC: Qt front-ends

 You'll probably want to get in touch with the PC-BSD folks.  As they are
 moving to pkgng for everything, they are updating their Python-based GUIs
 to work with it.  Might be a possibility to work together, or to build
off what
 they have, or to get ideas/inspiration for a more general tool.

I will definitely contact them with any questions I have. I have just been
reading through the script called pc-updatemanager and it is a nice aid for
developing a pkgng back-end with.

 If you could pardon my ignorance… but what is packagekit again (for the
 benefit of others)?

I've just looked into this myself, it is an api and daemon that together
allow you to create a package manager while not worrying about the abstract
inner workings. The benefit is that one back-end (for pkgng in this case)
could be programmed, but it would work with both the gtk and qt packagekit
clients. On top of everything it offers some really cool advanced features.
(http://www.packagekit.org/)

 imho a pkgng frontend should be done via packagekit, just write a pkgng
 backend for packagekit and you will gain for FreeBSD a KDE frontend and
 a GTK frontend.

I really like this suggestion, I am looking in to this now and it is very,
very cool. I still need to learn more about it but I appreciate the
recommendation. I had never heard about packagekit before today.

 The tool is bsdconfig

I checked out your Web site, and I want to say congratulations on your
progress. It is quite an accomplishment. I think that a modern GUI could
however appeal to a different crowd. If FreeBSD comes with bsdconfig,
perhaps a qt GUI could be an alternative.

I like qt compared to xdialog because you can have a more persistent
interface with more options available to you at any one time. There is less
navigating through menus.

Thank you for letting me know about your work, I will take it in
consideration when trying to develop the strongest proposal I can.

Justin Muniz
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Re: GSOC: Qt front-ends

2013-04-24 Thread Fernando Apesteguía

El 24/04/2013 21:18, Teske, Devin devin.te...@fisglobal.com escribió:


 On Apr 24, 2013, at 11:54 AM, Baptiste Daroussin wrote:

  On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 02:03:56PM -0400, Justin Edward Muniz wrote:
 
  I think the interface to pkgng and freebsd-update are still
  interesting; at least more worthwhile than the kernel configuration
  one.
 
  I think the pkgng one has the edge, since packages are updated far
  more often than base, and it's easier to track base.
 
  Now you are at a stage where you should make your own decision; which
  one looks the most interesting to you?  Once you decide on an area of
  interest, you can just start hacking :)
 
  Chris
 
 
 
  That's good to hear.
 
  I am sure that you are right, a pkgng GUI would probably see more use
in
  general. I am definitely close to making my decision, but this thread
has
  been so much help, I am glad for the insight.
 
  The coding is what I look forward to the most :D
 
  imho a pkgng frontend should be done via packagekit, just write a pkgng
backend
  for packagekit and you will gain for FreeBSD a KDE frontend and a GTK
frontend.
 
  That said any frontend at convenience to contributor will be anyway
good :)
 

 If you could pardon my ignorance… but what is packagekit again (for the
benefit of others)?

It's an application to manage packages. It is developed in a way that it's
easy to add new backends keeping the same interface. See[1] for the general
information and this[2] page for the currently supported back ends.

[1] http://www.packagekit.org

[2] http://www.packagekit.org/pk-matrix.html

 --
 Devin

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Re: GSOC: Qt front-ends

On Apr 24, 2013, at 2:33 PM, Fernando Apesteguía wrote:

El 24/04/2013 21:18, Teske, Devin
devin.te...@fisglobal.commailto:devin.te...@fisglobal.com escribió:

On Apr 24, 2013, at 11:54 AM, Baptiste Daroussin wrote:

On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 02:03:56PM -0400, Justin Edward Muniz wrote:

I think the interface to pkgng and freebsd-update are still
interesting; at least more worthwhile than the kernel configuration
one.

I think the pkgng one has the edge, since packages are updated far
more often than base, and it's easier to track base.

Now you are at a stage where you should make your own decision; which
one looks the most interesting to you? Once you decide on an area of
interest, you can just start hacking :)

Chris

That's good to hear.

I am sure that you are right, a pkgng GUI would probably see more use in
general. I am definitely close to making my decision, but this thread has
been so much help, I am glad for the insight.

The coding is what I look forward to the most :D

imho a pkgng frontend should be done via packagekit, just write a pkgng
backend
for packagekit and you will gain for FreeBSD a KDE frontend and a GTK
frontend.

That said any frontend at convenience to contributor will be anyway good :)

If you could pardon my ignorance… but what is packagekit again (for the
benefit of others)?

It's an application to manage packages. It is developed in a way that it's easy
to add new backends keeping the same interface. See[1] for the general
information and this[2] page for the currently supported back ends.

[1]
http://www.packagekit.orghttps://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v1/url?u=http://www.packagekit.orgk=%2FbkpAUdJWZuiTILCq%2FFnQg%3D%3D%0Ar=LTzUWWrRnz2iN3PtHDubWRSAh9itVJ%2BMUcNBCQ4tyeo%3D%0Am=8MiGlyOMD3O%2FR2YU9sNxl1vMPdajxy%2FqKps59tnvAWw%3D%0As=29faa229ba8cb89cdb69d00087e23dde5669cdb61308c5b6d44156beb6d8766e

[2]
http://www.packagekit.org/pk-matrix.htmlhttps://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v1/url?u=http://www.packagekit.org/pk-matrix.htmlk=%2FbkpAUdJWZuiTILCq%2FFnQg%3D%3D%0Ar=LTzUWWrRnz2iN3PtHDubWRSAh9itVJ%2BMUcNBCQ4tyeo%3D%0Am=8MiGlyOMD3O%2FR2YU9sNxl1vMPdajxy%2FqKps59tnvAWw%3D%0As=a802599114b383f22d717ee7fc4e7fc54e911e80958ed8f20c9a31228a3dbea5

Cool. Kinda reminds me of SANE for interfacing with scanners.
--
Devin

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Re: GSOC: Qt front-ends

2013-04-23 Thread Mark Saad


On Apr 21, 2013, at 4:11 PM, Justin Edward Muniz justin.mu...@maine.edu wrote:

 Hello everyone once again,
 
 I decided to split this from my previous thread because the nature of
 my questions has changed. I benefited from the last thread, and I am
 grateful to those who responded to it.
 
 For me Google Summer of Code is a big opportunity, and my interest in
 contributing to the open source community is fairly limited to FreeBSD for
 many reasons. I know that my application may have a better chance of being
 approved if I have a mentor to help me with my endeavors.
 
 I currently have three project ideas in mind; however I need to
 understand which one would be the most beneficial, and try to find a
 mentor, before I create my proposal. Eventually I would like to develop
 each application and release them along with a meta-package that comprises
 of them all. For now, I need to focus on just one of the three.
 
 Originally I was interested in developing a Qt front-end for
 freebsd-update; indeed most of my research has been for that project.
 However, I am also interested in furthering kports -- which seems to be
 notoriously buggy, has broken package functionality, and is a mammoth of an
 application; the last development for kports was in 2009. I also am
 interested in developing a graphical application to customize the FreeBSD
 kernel.
 
 I have compiled a list of features that I would like to concentrate on
 for each project. Some of the features are far less important than others,
 so my actual application may omit some of them, or consider them optional.
 If it would be appropriate I will certainly share my lists, but since the
 lists are long I don't want to spam the mailing-list. I am new to this
 community after all!
 
 If anyone is interested in discussing these possibilities or just one
 of them in particular, I will greatly appreciate any advice, insight,
 concerns, criticism, or ideas. Ideally I am also looking to talk with
 anyone who might be interested in mentoring my Google Summer of Code
 project.
 
 Justin Muniz
 __


Justin I say stick to  FreeBSD-update . My reason is, as Pkgng becomes more 
popular , a front end for ports will be less useful as binary packages become 
more popular . Kports is a monster program , you should set a reasonable goal 
,and target dates; which may be hard with a cleanup project .   Also a update 
notifier for kde that handles FreeBSD update would be very useful . 

My 2cents .
---
Mark saad | mark.s...@longcount.org

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Fwd: GSOC: Qt front-ends

2013-04-23 Thread Justin Edward Muniz


 Justin I say stick to  FreeBSD-update . My reason is, as Pkgng becomes
 more popular , a front end for ports will be less useful as binary packages
 become more popular . Kports is a monster program , you should set a
 reasonable goal ,and target dates; which may be hard with a cleanup project
 .   Also a update notifier for kde that handles FreeBSD update would be
 very useful .

 My 2cents .
 ---
 Mark saad | mark.s...@longcount.org



Thank you very much Mark,

 I was definitely hoping to get community feedback on this, and I value
you voicing your opinion. I agree that kports is a mammoth, and also that a
system updater GUI should have a way to notify the user of new updates.

 Any other perspectives are welcome, as well as support for a
freebsd-update approach. I am working to refine my proposal, which as
you've pointed out is very important. Eventually I would like to help in
all three mentioned areas, but for now I must focus on one application.
Does anyone think that a custom kernel configuration and management GUI
utility would be desirable?

 I will shape my goals to meet the needs of the community.

Justin Muniz
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GSOC: Qt front-ends

2013-04-21 Thread Justin Edward Muniz

Hello everyone once again,

 I decided to split this from my previous thread because the nature of
my questions has changed. I benefited from the last thread, and I am
grateful to those who responded to it.

 For me Google Summer of Code is a big opportunity, and my interest in
contributing to the open source community is fairly limited to FreeBSD for
many reasons. I know that my application may have a better chance of being
approved if I have a mentor to help me with my endeavors.

 I currently have three project ideas in mind; however I need to
understand which one would be the most beneficial, and try to find a
mentor, before I create my proposal. Eventually I would like to develop
each application and release them along with a meta-package that comprises
of them all. For now, I need to focus on just one of the three.

 Originally I was interested in developing a Qt front-end for
freebsd-update; indeed most of my research has been for that project.
However, I am also interested in furthering kports -- which seems to be
notoriously buggy, has broken package functionality, and is a mammoth of an
application; the last development for kports was in 2009. I also am
interested in developing a graphical application to customize the FreeBSD
kernel.

 I have compiled a list of features that I would like to concentrate on
for each project. Some of the features are far less important than others,
so my actual application may omit some of them, or consider them optional.
If it would be appropriate I will certainly share my lists, but since the
lists are long I don't want to spam the mailing-list. I am new to this
community after all!

 If anyone is interested in discussing these possibilities or just one
of them in particular, I will greatly appreciate any advice, insight,
concerns, criticism, or ideas. Ideally I am also looking to talk with
anyone who might be interested in mentoring my Google Summer of Code
project.

Justin Muniz
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GSOC: Qt front-end for freebsd-update

 I am excited for this year's Google Summer of Code, and I have a
project in mind that I am working to propose.

 I am a CS major and have experience with Qt, C++ and shell scripting.
I have been developing on FreeBSD for several years, and I am looking to
tackle developing a new Qt front-end for the freebsd-update command.

 I am thinking a rather straight-forward user interface with more
advanced options available (such as selecting a specific server). I am
looking for constructive feedback, and also a developer interested in
mentoring me this Summer.

 Thanks everyone for your time, and for your hard work.

Justin Muniz
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Re: GSOC: Qt front-end for freebsd-update

2013-04-14 Thread Chris Rees

On 14 April 2013 07:11, Justin Edward Muniz justin.mu...@maine.edu wrote:
  I am excited for this year's Google Summer of Code, and I have a
 project in mind that I am working to propose.

  I am a CS major and have experience with Qt, C++ and shell scripting.
 I have been developing on FreeBSD for several years, and I am looking to
 tackle developing a new Qt front-end for the freebsd-update command.

  I am thinking a rather straight-forward user interface with more
 advanced options available (such as selecting a specific server). I am
 looking for constructive feedback, and also a developer interested in
 mentoring me this Summer.

  Thanks everyone for your time, and for your hard work.

Are you referring to the suggestion below?

https://wiki.freebsd.org/IdeasPage#KDE_front-ends_to_the_freebsd-update.288.29utility

Colin Percival (CCd) mentions he would be the technical contact for
this project, though that was five years ago-- perhaps he'd like to
comment.

Chris
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Re: GSOC: Qt front-end for freebsd-update

2013-04-14 Thread Jilles Tjoelker

On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 02:11:44AM -0400, Justin Edward Muniz wrote:
  I am excited for this year's Google Summer of Code, and I have a
 project in mind that I am working to propose.

  I am a CS major and have experience with Qt, C++ and shell scripting.
 I have been developing on FreeBSD for several years, and I am looking to
 tackle developing a new Qt front-end for the freebsd-update command.

  I am thinking a rather straight-forward user interface with more
 advanced options available (such as selecting a specific server). I am
 looking for constructive feedback, and also a developer interested in
 mentoring me this Summer.

If you want to work on freebsd-update, I think it will be more useful to
improve freebsd-update itself. Some issues are:

* It is not particularly robust in the face of errors (such as a full
  disk). From reading the documentation, you might get the impression
  that it is better than it actually is. The state for the rollback
  command is only set up after installation of the update so that
  command is not useful for backing out a partially installed update.

* The upgrade feature takes large amounts of time and network bandwidth.

* Less required user interaction would be nice. Think of upgrading many
  machines.

* freebsd-update and pkgng are two upgrade systems. Perhaps
  freebsd-upgrade should be scrapped altogether in favour of a
  pkgng-based solution.

If you want to write GUIs, perhaps a pkgng GUI is more interesting.

-- 
Jilles Tjoelker
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Re: GSOC: Qt front-end for freebsd-update

2013-04-14 Thread Wojciech Puchar


I am a CS major and have experience with Qt, C++ and shell scripting.
I have been developing on FreeBSD for several years, and I am looking to
tackle developing a new Qt front-end for the freebsd-update command.


spend your time for something more useful :)
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Re: GSOC: Qt front-end for freebsd-update

Thank you for your advice! I have already sent an email to Colin, and I did
indeed take the idea from that page.

Justin Muniz

On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 7:04 AM, Chris Rees cr...@freebsd.org wrote:

 On 14 April 2013 07:11, Justin Edward Muniz justin.mu...@maine.edu
 wrote:
   I am excited for this year's Google Summer of Code, and I have a
  project in mind that I am working to propose.
 
   I am a CS major and have experience with Qt, C++ and shell
 scripting.
  I have been developing on FreeBSD for several years, and I am looking to
  tackle developing a new Qt front-end for the freebsd-update command.
 
   I am thinking a rather straight-forward user interface with more
  advanced options available (such as selecting a specific server). I am
  looking for constructive feedback, and also a developer interested in
  mentoring me this Summer.
 
   Thanks everyone for your time, and for your hard work.

 Are you referring to the suggestion below?


 https://wiki.freebsd.org/IdeasPage#KDE_front-ends_to_the_freebsd-update.288.29utility

 Colin Percival (CCd) mentions he would be the technical contact for
 this project, though that was five years ago-- perhaps he'd like to
 comment.

 Chris

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Re: GSOC: Qt front-end for freebsd-update

2013-04-14 Thread Eitan Adler

On 14 April 2013 11:42, Justin Edward Muniz justin.mu...@maine.edu wrote:
 Thank you for your advice! I have already sent an email to Colin, and I did
 indeed take the idea from that page.

I think GUI front ends to freebsd-update, portsnap, or pkgng would all
be useful.

One thing I would look into though, is what PC-BSD offers. They may
already have similar things.


-- 
Eitan Adler
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Re: GSOC: Qt front-end for freebsd-update


 I think GUI front ends to freebsd-update, portsnap, or pkgng would all be
 useful.

 One thing I would look into though, is what PC-BSD offers. They may
 already have similar things.

 Very interesting, I am checking out the source for PC-BSD's updater to
study it.
Portsnap and pkgng seem like interesting projects, would it be bizarre to
combine
functionality into one GUI? I need to do more research on pkgng, I am more
familiar
with the other commands.
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Re: GSOC: Qt front-end for freebsd-update

2013-04-14 Thread Kimmo Paasiala

On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 7:02 PM, Justin Edward Muniz
justin.mu...@maine.edu wrote:

 I think GUI front ends to freebsd-update, portsnap, or pkgng would all be
 useful.

 One thing I would look into though, is what PC-BSD offers. They may
 already have similar things.

 Very interesting, I am checking out the source for PC-BSD's updater to
 study it.
 Portsnap and pkgng seem like interesting projects, would it be bizarre to
 combine
 functionality into one GUI? I need to do more research on pkgng, I am more
 familiar
 with the other commands.

Please don't mix the two, they are related but their usages do not
really overlap.

portsnap(8) only deals with keeping the ports(7) tree and the
/usr/ports/INDEX file up to date.

PKGNG (like the old pkg_* tools) is mostly concerned with registering
built ports as packages or installing pre-built packages in the
system. Some functionality of it does use the ports tree but it does
not depend on it.


I have to also ask, what would a GUI offer that the command line tools
do not offer at the moment?


-Kimmo
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Re: GSOC: Qt front-end for freebsd-update

2013-04-14 Thread Eitan Adler

On 14 April 2013 12:15, Kimmo Paasiala kpaas...@gmail.com wrote:
 I have to also ask, what would a GUI offer that the command line tools
 do not offer at the moment?

A GUI.


-- 
Eitan Adler
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Re: GSOC: Qt front-end for freebsd-update

2013-04-14 Thread Kimmo Paasiala

On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 7:17 PM, Eitan Adler li...@eitanadler.com wrote:
 On 14 April 2013 12:15, Kimmo Paasiala kpaas...@gmail.com wrote:
 I have to also ask, what would a GUI offer that the command line tools
 do not offer at the moment?

 A GUI.



That's kind of given :D

But does FreeBSD lack a GUI for ports/packages management? I don't see
many requests for such things on the FreeBSD forums or on the mailing
lists.

-Kimmo
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Re: GSOC: Qt front-end for freebsd-update

2013-04-14 Thread Fernando Apesteguía

On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 6:22 PM, Kimmo Paasiala kpaas...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 7:17 PM, Eitan Adler li...@eitanadler.com wrote:
  On 14 April 2013 12:15, Kimmo Paasiala kpaas...@gmail.com wrote:
  I have to also ask, what would a GUI offer that the command line tools
  do not offer at the moment?
 
  A GUI.
 
 

 That's kind of given :D

 But does FreeBSD lack a GUI for ports/packages management? I don't see
 many requests for such things on the FreeBSD forums or on the mailing
 lists.


It seems we already have something similar in the ports[1] collection.
There is also a newer version[2] using Qt4 but it seems more limited. It
might be worth a look at those first.

[1] ports-mgmt/kports
[2] ports-mgmt/kports-qt4



 -Kimmo
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Re: GSOC: Qt front-end for freebsd-update


 Please don't mix the two, they are related but their usages do not really
 overlap.

 portsnap(8) only deals with keeping the ports(7) tree and the
 /usr/ports/INDEX file up to date.

 PKGNG (like the old pkg_* tools) is mostly concerned with registering
 built ports as packages or installing pre-built packages in the
 system. Some functionality of it does use the ports tree but it does
 not depend on it.


 Yes, that does make sense; thank you for your input. A set of GUIs
seems like the
way to go, the reason why I considered combining them is for convenience. I
am still learning
about pkgng, but I do understand that it does not replace ports package
management
tools.

 A front-end could certainly add or combine functionality for
convenience, but
some admins run multiple operating systems and may have to reference notes
before updates.
And some newer users might prefer a GUI for some of these common commands.

Justin Muniz
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Re: GSOC: Qt front-end for freebsd-update