PR 151443

[Charlie Kester]

http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=ports/151443

I hate to nag, but will one of the committers please give this PR some
attention?  It's been almost a month with no visible activity.

If there's something more you need from me as the maintainer, please let
me know.  But I think this one is actually pretty simple.

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How to detect filename conflicts with uninstalled ports?

[Charlie Kester]

I'm working on a new port that installs a program with a name that seems
like it would already be taken, but I don't have anything by that name
on my system -- even though I have lots of ports installed.

I know that I can use "portsdb -r" to find all the ports that depend on
a given port, whether they're installed or not.  Is there a similar way
to determine if an uninstalled port installs a file with a given name?

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Re: How to detect filename conflicts with uninstalled ports?

[Charlie Kester]

On Sat 20 Nov 2010 at 17:23:37 PST Charlie Kester wrote:

I'm working on a new port that installs a program with a name that seems
like it would already be taken, but I don't have anything by that name
on my system -- even though I have lots of ports installed.

I know that I can use "portsdb -r" to find all the ports that depend on
a given port, whether they're installed or not.  Is there a similar way
to determine if an uninstalled port installs a file with a given name?


As someone kindly reminded me, "find" and "grep" are my friends:

$ cd /usr/ports 
$ find . -name "pkg-plist" -exec grep -H "bin/progname" {} \;

$ find . -name Makefile -exec grep -H "bin/progname" {} \;
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Re: How to detect filename conflicts with uninstalled ports?

[Charlie Kester]

On Sat 20 Nov 2010 at 19:33:01 PST Robert Huff wrote:


Charlie Kester writes:


 On Sat 20 Nov 2010 at 17:23:37 PST Charlie Kester wrote:
 >I'm working on a new port that installs a program with a name that seems
 >like it would already be taken, but I don't have anything by that name
 >on my system -- even though I have lots of ports installed.
 >
 >I know that I can use "portsdb -r" to find all the ports that depend on
 >a given port, whether they're installed or not.  Is there a similar way
 >to determine if an uninstalled port installs a file with a given name?

 As someone kindly reminded me, "find" and "grep" are my friends:

 $ cd /usr/ports
 $ find . -name "pkg-plist" -exec grep -H "bin/progname" {} \;
 $ find . -name Makefile -exec grep -H "bin/progname" {} \;


The former accounts for static packing lists; does the second
do the same for dynamic packing lists?


Probably not.  I was just thinking of ports that define PLIST_FILES in
their Makefiles, in lieu of a pkg-plist.

But I expect these two find & greps will detect the majority of filename
conflicts.  Unless someone has a better recommendation, I'll settle for
less than perfect.

Besides, the Porter's Handbook strongly discourages the use of dynamic
package lists (although it does not forbid them).  So if I'm not aware
of a conflict with someone else's port that uses them anyway, I figure
it's as much their fault as mine.  ;)
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Re: How to detect filename conflicts with uninstalled ports?

[Charlie Kester]

On Sat 20 Nov 2010 at 20:34:30 PST Robert Huff wrote:


Charlie Kester writes:


 But I expect these two find & greps will detect the majority of
 filename conflicts.  Unless someone has a better recommendation,
 I'll settle for less than perfect.


If this is a one-time thing, your best policy might be to
provide the (proposed) name and see if anyone raises a red flag.


Two names, actually: "box" and "boxer".

I'm amazed these names don't seem to be taken.  I remember boxer as the
name of an editor on another platform, but it was never ported to BSD.

There's "boxes" which is a little utility for formatting comment blocks
and similar text.  But no "box".  Weird.

Anyway, the "box" I have in mind is a programming language for graphics.
http://boxc.sourceforge.net.  Boxer is the name of its Python-based GUI.
I have the portfiles ready to submit, assuming my tinderbox run goes OK.
This query was one of my final sanity checks.


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PR's not being picked up (Was Re: becoming a port committor)

[Charlie Kester]

On Sun 21 Nov 2010 at 20:09:23 PST Beech Rintoul wrote:


That is correct, although it is possible to use a unified diff with the "-N"
flag against a non existent source. The problem is too many contributors send
in update pr's in shar format which are a real PITA to deal with from our end.

You may notice that many pr's aren't picked up by committers for just
that reason.


In such cases, does the submitter receive any communication explaining
the reasons his PR isn't getting worked on?  


E.g., why not send an email requesting resubmission in the proper
format?

Many of the of oldest unassigned but still-open PR's show no evidence
that they've even been looked at by a committer.  There are no entries
beyond the original one.  How can we know which PR's were rejected/not
picked up for some reason and which ones were genuinely overlooked?


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Re: PR's not being picked up (Was Re: becoming a port committor)

[Charlie Kester]

On Sun 21 Nov 2010 at 22:01:28 PST Janky Jay, III wrote:


   Almost anyone who is an only semi-serious port maintainer (meaning
they only have a select few number of ports to maintain and are only
trying to contribute/participate) knows that maybe this issue is due
to the porter's handbook. Specifically
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/books/porters-handbook/porting-submitting.html
which blatantly states that all submissions whether they are new OR
updates be submitted in shar format. Maybe the commiters should bring
this up and have a few less to deal with..? Just a suggestion.


That page doesn't say what you think it says.  


Its context is the creation of a new port.  It doesn't say anything
about updating an existing port.

Perhaps the problem is that some people never read the *rest* of the
handbook?  If they would, they'd find this page, which explicitly says
to use 'diff -ruN':

http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/books/porters-handbook/port-upgrading.html
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Re: PR's not being picked up (Was Re: becoming a port committor)

[Charlie Kester]

On Mon 22 Nov 2010 at 11:28:36 PST Greg Byshenk wrote:


I'm not a porter, but how about the below...?
HTH
-greg

--- begin diff ---

--- porting-submitting.html 2007-09-11 01:11:07.0 +0200
+++ porting-submitting.html 2010-11-22 20:14:54.0 +0100
@@ -69,6 +69,14 @@



+
+
+Note2: The instructions above are for creating a new
+port. Port updates should be diff files instead of 
shar files,
+as described in Upgrading.
+
+
+
One more time, do not include the 
original
source distfile, the work directory, or the package 
you built
with make package.


--- end diff ---


While we're at it, remove any mention of port updates from the existing
note:

--- begin diff ---
--- porting-submitting.html.orig2010-11-22 14:01:35.0 -0800
+++ porting-submitting.html 2010-11-22 14:02:09.0 -0800
@@ -66,9 +66,8 @@
 
 Note: You can make our work a lot easier, if you use a good 
description in the
 synopsis of the problem report. We prefer something like ``New port:
-/ '' for 
new ports
-and ``Update port: / '' for port updates. If you stick to this scheme, the chance that 
someone will
+/ '' for 
new ports.
+If you stick to this scheme, the chance that someone will
 take a look at your PR soon is much better.
 
 
--- end diff ---

I'm not sure, but I suspect that this note has been the source of the confusion.
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failed configure of multimedia/handbrake

[Charlie Kester]

I'm getting a strange error while trying to install the handbrake port:


===>  Configuring for handbrake-0.9.3
sed: 
/usr/ports/multimedia/handbrake/work/HandBrake-0.9.3//usr/ports/multimedia/handbrake/work/HandBrake-0.9.3/configure:
 No such file or directory
*** Error code 1

Stop in /usr/ports/multimedia/handbrake.

Looking at the port Makefile and bsd.port.mk, I can't see why sed is
being run here.  Nor can I see why ${WRKSRC} is appearing twice in the
path to the configure script.

Any ideas?

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Re: failed configure of multimedia/handbrake

[Charlie Kester]

On Tue 07 Dec 2010 at 07:47:41 PST Peter Pentchev wrote:

On Mon, Dec 06, 2010 at 06:27:54PM -0800, Charlie Kester wrote:

I'm getting a strange error while trying to install the handbrake port:


===>  Configuring for handbrake-0.9.3
sed: 
/usr/ports/multimedia/handbrake/work/HandBrake-0.9.3//usr/ports/multimedia/handbrake/work/HandBrake-0.9.3/configure:
 No such file or directory
*** Error code 1

Stop in /usr/ports/multimedia/handbrake.

Looking at the port Makefile and bsd.port.mk, I can't see why sed is
being run here.  Nor can I see why ${WRKSRC} is appearing twice in the
path to the configure script.


I'd say lines 110-112 of the Makefile (REINPLACE_CMD on configure) are why
sed is being run :)


Is the post-patch target built *after* the "===> Configuring..." message
is displayed?  


I saw those lines in the Makefile, and added an ECHO command at the end
of the post-patch commands. It was displayed before "===> Configuring". 



As to why ${WRKSRC}/configure expands to this weird thing... can you show
us the output of the following two commands:

 make -V WRKDIR -V WRKSRC -V WRKDIRPREFIX


# make -V WRKDIR -V WRKSRC -V WRKDIRPREFIX
/usr/ports/multimedia/handbrake/work
/usr/ports/multimedia/handbrake/work/HandBrake-0.9.3
(blank line)
#



 make -X -V WRKDIR -V WRKSRC -V WRKDIRPREFIX


# make -V WRKDIR -V WRKSRC -V WRKDIRPREFIX
${WRKDIRPREFIX}${.CURDIR}/work
${WRKDIR}/HandBrake-0.9.3
(blank line)
#



...in the same (ports/multimedia/handbrake) directory?

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Re: failed configure of multimedia/handbrake

[Charlie Kester]

On Tue 07 Dec 2010 at 14:33:24 PST Ion-Mihai Tetcu wrote:

On Tue, 7 Dec 2010 13:27:02 -0800
Charlie Kester  wrote:


On Tue 07 Dec 2010 at 07:47:41 PST Peter Pentchev wrote:
>On Mon, Dec 06, 2010 at 06:27:54PM -0800, Charlie Kester wrote:
>> I'm getting a strange error while trying to install the handbrake
>> port:
>>
>>
>> ===>  Configuring for handbrake-0.9.3
>> sed: 
/usr/ports/multimedia/handbrake/work/HandBrake-0.9.3//usr/ports/multimedia/handbrake/work/HandBrake-0.9.3/configure:
>> No such file or directory *** Error code 1
>>
>> Stop in /usr/ports/multimedia/handbrake.
>>
>> Looking at the port Makefile and bsd.port.mk, I can't see why sed
>> is being run here.  Nor can I see why ${WRKSRC} is appearing twice
>> in the path to the configure script.
>
>I'd say lines 110-112 of the Makefile (REINPLACE_CMD on configure)
>are why sed is being run :)

Is the post-patch target built *after* the "===> Configuring..."
message is displayed?


No


I saw those lines in the Makefile, and added an ECHO command at the
end of the post-patch commands. It was displayed before "===>
Configuring".


yep. the order of the target is enforced in bsd.port.mk



So I'm back to my original puzzlement: why and where is sed being
invoked by the configure target?
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Re: failed configure of multimedia/handbrake

[Charlie Kester]

On Wed 08 Dec 2010 at 09:22:40 PST Ade Lovett wrote:


On Dec 07, 2010, at 19:09 , Jonathan wrote:

${PATCH_WRKSRC} and $$file from ${LIBTOOLFILES} have the full path to
the target file which when combined causes the not found error.  I'm
guessing this has something to do with the recent autotools changes
so I'm cc'ing ade@


The port Makefile is incorrect.  LIBTOOLFILES should be set (if
necessary) to a relative path, not an absolute one.

grep -R LIBTOOLFILES /usr/ports will show you all the ports that
do this correctly -- the most recent autotools changes were
essentially a null-op to massively reduce tree-diffs on upgrades of
autoconf/automake/libtool



Thanks Ade!  I can confirm that removing the reference to ${WRKSRC} on
the LIBTOOLFILES line fixes the issue I'd been seeing.

The handbrake port is unmaintained, and I don't see a PR with this fix.
Shall I submit one, or is it already being handled?

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Re: Updating Claws-Mail

[Charlie Kester]

On Mon 13 Dec 2010 at 11:22:26 PST Doug Barton wrote:


I think some ports have split the docs into their own port, e.g., 
gimp. Is that a reasonable approach here? The fact that a lot of the 
gnome stuff A) makes docs by default, B) with no option to turn it 
off, which C) pulls in a ton of docbook and other deps; is not 
something I'm fond of, and would prefer to not see repeated 
elsewhere. :)


Are the upstream authors resisting the idea of including pre-built docs
in their tarballs?

Is it that they're making some system-dependent tweaks at install time?
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Re: GPLv3 and LICENSE

[Charlie Kester]

On Wed 05 Jan 2011 at 07:55:38 PST Pedro F. Giffuni wrote:

Hello;

I was just looking around FreeBSD's Wiki and I found a page
where ports with GPLv3 license are listed:

http://wiki.freebsd.org/PortsAndGPLv3

While this list is necessarily incomplete, I would think
the right place to write the license would be in the
ports tree using the new LICENSE= tag.

I only looked a few but it seems like most of the ports
in that list don't set the value!

I suggest that committers enforce a policy of tagging GPLv3 code when
the port is updated.


I don't disagree, but we're still waiting for clear instructions on how
to use the LICENSE tag and related infrastructure.  There's nothing in
the Porter's Handbook yet.

There should probably be something in the main handbook too, so users
will know how to go about accepting or rejecting the various licenses.
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Re: how do i suggest a program for your ports collection?

[Charlie Kester]

On Sun 23 Jan 2011 at 00:25:47 PST Eygene Ryabinkin wrote:

Thomas, good day.

Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 08:25:23AM +0100, Thomas Dettbarn wrote:

is there some formal way of suggesting a program for your ports
collection?


Thanks for porting this so quickly, Eygene.

One small request, however, for you or Thomas.  Can you add a manpage? 



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Should I be adding LICENSE info to my ports?

[Charlie Kester]

Today on FreshPorts I see some bulk commits adding LICENSE info to 40+
ports. And I've noticed LICENSE being added in many other recent commits.

But I still don't see anything in the Porter's Handbook about how
maintainers should use this infrastructure in their ports.  


I thought we were waiting on the Handbook, but it seems a lot of people
are proceeding without it.  Should I do likewise?  


(There are now enough examples out there that I *think* I can figure
what to do...)

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Re: Should I be adding LICENSE info to my ports?

[Charlie Kester]

On Tue 25 Jan 2011 at 19:46:36 PST Sahil Tandon wrote:


It's entirely up to you; no requirement.


Understood, thanks.
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Re: Should I be adding LICENSE info to my ports?

[Charlie Kester]

On Wed 26 Jan 2011 at 01:13:50 PST Emanuel Haupt wrote:

Sahil Tandon  wrote:

On Tue, 2011-01-25 at 16:17:29 -0800, Charlie Kester wrote:

> Today on FreshPorts I see some bulk commits adding LICENSE info to
> 40+ ports. And I've noticed LICENSE being added in many other recent
> commits.

Right, ehaupt@ updated several of his ports to include LICENSE.


I was very reluctant to do so but now that the license framework has
been around for some time I thought I give it a go.

As Sahil pointed out it's entirely up to you. Better have no license
specified if you're not sure about it. You can not always trust the
included COPYING file. There are many cases where a port comes with
several different licenses. I found that cross checking with different
linux distros could often bring some clarification.


Good tips, thanks.  There's also often some licensing info in the
author's manpage, website, or other documentation.

I'm not going to submit a flurry of PR's to add this to all my ports,
but I will begin gathering the info so I can include it as part of any
other updates.
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Re: [CFT] cpu stresser^W libreoffice 3.3.0 final

[Charlie Kester]

On Fri 04 Feb 2011 at 10:58:28 PST Lowell Gilbert wrote:

Thierry Thomas  writes:


Le ven  4 fév 11 à 17:01:37 +0100, Chip Camden 
 écrivait :


It finally came through on portsnap late yesterday.  The install phase
still filled up my /tmp drive, so I had to umount /tmp, create a symbolic
link to /usr/tmp, and then it installed OK.  My usual /tmp partition has
500MB -- why does the libreoffice install require so much tmp space?  OOo
always installed OK.


Does'nt it honor TMPDIR?


It certainly does.

But it seems that I needed to have that set for the build as well as
the install.  I can't figure out why.


It would be nice if the port would warn about this need for tmp space at
the outset.  It sucks to find out only after a horrendously long
compile.


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Re: multiple definition of `__i686.get_pc_thunk.bx'

[Charlie Kester]

On Sun 27 Feb 2011 at 12:24:06 PST Stephen Montgomery-Smith wrote:
I am the maintainer of the port vis5d+.  I just got this email (copied 
below) saying that vis5d+ isn't building right now.


The issue seems to be that some reference to __i686.get_pc_thunk.bx is 
included twice at some point.  This variable seems to be part of an 
object file crtbeginS.o that is created by gcc or gcc45, in what seem to 
me to be very mysterious conditions.  I am rather sure that the issue 
has nothing to do with vis5d+, but rather is something to do with either 
gcc45, or libtools, neither of which I understand.


Does anyone out there have any idea of what the problem is, or how it 
can be solved?




I've seen a similar problem with py-numpy. It seems to occur when
there's a compiler/linker mismatch.  In py-numpy's case, I was able to
resolve it by defining LDSHARED to an appropriate value:

MAKE_ENV+= LDSHARED="gcc45 -shared"

Otherwise, the build was trying to use /usr/local/bin/gcc45 to compiler
and /usr/bin/cc to link, resulting in the two different thunk
definitions.
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Is it possible to install only some parts of libreoffice?

[Charlie Kester]

I don't want or need all of the programs in the libreoffice suite.

In fact, the only reason I might install it is to get the presentation
program so I can work with PowerPoint files I occasionally download from
the web.  (There don't seem to be any workable, lighterweight
alternatives, as there are for .doc and .xls files.)

Would it be possible to provide some options to select which components
to install?  Or is the suite written in such a way that I have to
install the whole thing in order to get one piece?
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Re: Is it possible to install only some parts of libreoffice?

[Charlie Kester]

On Wed 02 Mar 2011 at 15:06:52 PST Charlie Kester wrote:

I don't want or need all of the programs in the libreoffice suite.

In fact, the only reason I might install it is to get the presentation
program so I can work with PowerPoint files I occasionally download from
the web.  (There don't seem to be any workable, lighterweight
alternatives, as there are for .doc and .xls files.)

Would it be possible to provide some options to select which components
to install?  Or is the suite written in such a way that I have to
install the whole thing in order to get one piece?


As often happens, asking the question got me thinking and I went to
FreshPorts to see if I could find some alternatives to Impress that I
didn't know about.  Found devel/present, which looks promising.  Poking
around in the workdir, I see there's a gtk-based ppt viewer included.

But I'd still like to know if it's possible to install only a few
selected components from libreoffice, for the cases where I might need
to do more than view an MSOffice file.
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Re: xfce 4.8 upgrade errors.

[Charlie Kester]

On Fri 04 Mar 2011 at 18:23:47 PST Aryeh Friedman wrote:

I had to reinstall all my ports from scratch to fix this... for how to
do this safely see the last example of the man page for portmaster

On Fri, Mar 4, 2011 at 9:07 PM, Scott T. Hildreth  wrote:

I updated my server to 8.2 and then all my ports.  When compiling orage
or trying to it failed with libical errors,

In file included from ical-archive.c:56:
/usr/local/include/libical/icalss.h:38:27: error: icalcomponent.h: No such file 
or directory
/usr/local/include/libical/icalss.h:111:23: error: icalgauge.h: No such file or 
directory
/usr/local/include/libical/icalss.h:282:21: error: icalset.h: No such file or 
directory
/usr/local/include/libical/icalss.h:342:25: error: icalcluster.h: No such file 
or directory


...I cannot find a solution for this, is anyone else seeing this
error. When they compile orage?



The root cause of this problem seems to be that
/usr/local/include/libical is not in the include path.  


icalss.h includes these other header files without specifying the
subdirectory.  I.e., it does the following:

#include 

Since it's not on the include path, icalcomponent.h is reported as not
found.

Adding CFLAGS+=-I${LOCALBASE}/include/libical to the port Makefile fixes
this.

BTW, I haven't confirmed this yet, but the orage configure step seems to
enable libical support if the library is found, overriding the WITH_ICAL
option.  When I put the above CFLAGS line inside the if block for
WITH_ICAL, and set the option to OFF, the build still failed with the
same errors listed above.  It shouldn't have mattered whether or not my
CFLAGS line was executed, because it shouldn't have been compiling any
ical-related stuff. But it was. 
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Re: xfce 4.8 upgrade errors.

[Charlie Kester]

On Sat 05 Mar 2011 at 09:51:39 PST Scott T. Hildreth wrote:

On Sat, 2011-03-05 at 09:27 -0800, Charlie Kester wrote:


BTW, I haven't confirmed this yet, but the orage configure step seems to
enable libical support if the library is found, overriding the WITH_ICAL
option.  When I put the above CFLAGS line inside the if block for
WITH_ICAL, and set the option to OFF, the build still failed with the
same errors listed above.  It shouldn't have mattered whether or not my
CFLAGS line was executed, because it shouldn't have been compiling any
ical-related stuff. But it was. 



I also tried turning off the ical support in the config, but still had
the same problem.


To address this, the if block in the port Makefile should probably 
be rewritten as follows:


.if defined(WITH_ICAL) 
LIB_DEPENDS+=   ical.44:${PORTSDIR}/devel/libical

CFLAGS+=-I${LOCALBASE}/include/libical
.else
CONFIGURE_ARGS+=--disable-libical
.endif
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Re: Superfluous dependencies

[Charlie Kester]

On Sat 12 Mar 2011 at 13:53:07 PST Mark Linimon wrote:

On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 10:28:40AM +0100, Hans Ottevanger wrote:

If anybody is interested I could consolidate my results and post a few patches.


I would like to see them.

This is the kind of really-dull-but-necessary work that we need to have
people work on to fight the creeping dependencies :-)


A few minutes ago, I was answering a post on the forums, in which a user
expressed surprise (and outrage) that the phpmyadmin port was installing
libX11 and similar things on his server.  By installing it myself and
then using "pkg_tree -v" to examine the dependencies, I was able to
narrow it down to two of the port's options that were ON by default.

I'm not aware of any tool that will display a similar dependency tree
for a port *before* it is installed.  "make all-depends-list" creates
exactly what it suggests, a list, and doesn't show any of the
hierarchical info that is needed to answer questions like the one I was
working on.   If there is such a tool, I'd love to hear about it.
Otherwise, it might be an interesting and useful project for someone to
take a stab at.
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Re: Superfluous dependencies

[Charlie Kester]

On Sat 12 Mar 2011 at 14:21:35 PST Mark Linimon wrote:

On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 02:12:34PM -0800, Charlie Kester wrote:

I'm not aware of any tool that will display a similar dependency tree
for a port *before* it is installed.


http://portsmon.freebsd.org/portdependencytree.py

Note: it's running a live set of queries on the tree, so it's slow.


Thanks, the exactly the kind of thing I was looking for.

Is the underlying sourcecode available somewhere?  The speed is
acceptable, but I'd rather not be burdening the portsmon server
everytime I want to run a query.  If it was running against my local
copy of the portstree, then nobody else would be inconvenienced.
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Re: Superfluous dependencies

[Charlie Kester]

On Sat 12 Mar 2011 at 15:25:09 PST Doug Barton wrote:

On 03/12/2011 14:12, Charlie Kester wrote:

I'm not aware of any tool that will display a similar dependency tree
for a port *before* it is installed.


portmaster doesn't _quite_ do that, but it does walk you through all of 
the config screens (and thus, the related dependencies) prior to 
building, then present you a list of everything that will be built 
before you build it.


Yep.  That's marginally better than "make all-depends-list" because it
filters out any dependencies that would have been pulled in by disabled
options.



That said, what is really needed is for the OPTIONS framework to take 
environmental preferences into account when dealing with defaults. In 
other words, if WITHOUT_X11 is defined in make.conf, then the defaults 
for OPTIONS that are related to requiring X11 stuff should be off. There 
are a few ports that have rolled their own manipulation of this, but 
that logic really needs to be in bsd.options.mk. Any volunteers?




X11 is just one example.  
There are similar scenarios involving XML crap (excuse my language).


What's really needed are better tools to help maintainers see what their
ports are installing, and for them to exercise more disciple in asking
"Is this really necessary, or should I make it optional? Is it really a
run dependency, or is it only needed for the build?"  (*)

And maybe also to give end users better tools too, so they can be better
informed about the consequences of installing a particular port or
enabling certain options.  Threads like this one usually get started
when someone has an unpleasant surprise.

The WITHOUT_X11 logic wrt options can get complicated, btw.  If you're
installing a GTK or KDE app, for example, you probably don't want
WITHOUT_X11 disabling any of its options!  Or do we want to interpret
WITHOUT_X11 as a signal that the user intends to run a textmode system
only, and disallow installation of any GUI ports whatsoever?

(* For me, testing the port in a tinderbox with --clean-packages has
always had a sobering effect.  When it takes all day -- or more! -- to
finish the test, I start looking for things to trim.  Some of you might
recall me asking a while ago whether I could put some pre-built manpages
under files, in order to avoid pulling in a bunch of docbook
dependencies.) 
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Re: Superfluous dependencies

[Charlie Kester]

On Sat 12 Mar 2011 at 15:57:09 PST Charlie Kester wrote:

What's really needed are better tools to help maintainers see what
their ports are installing, and for them to exercise more disciple in
asking "Is this really necessary, or should I make it optional? Is it
really a run dependency, or is it only needed for the build?"  (*)


s/disciple/discipline

I need to exercise more proofreading discipline. :)
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Re: Superfluous dependencies

[Charlie Kester]

On Sat 12 Mar 2011 at 18:28:42 PST Doug Barton wrote:

On 03/12/2011 18:13, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote:

Charlie Kester  wrote:


A few minutes ago, I was answering a post on the forums, in which
a user expressed surprise (and outrage) that the phpmyadmin port
was installing libX11 and similar things on his server.  By
installing it myself and then using "pkg_tree -v" to examine the
dependencies, I was able to narrow it down to two of the port's
options that were ON by default.

I'm not aware of any tool that will display a similar dependency
tree for a port *before* it is installed.  "make all-depends-list"
creates exactly what it suggests, a list, and doesn't show any
of the hierarchical info that is needed to answer questions like
the one I was working on.   If there is such a tool, I'd love to
hear about it.


Would something along the lines of "make -n fetch-recursive"
help at all?  I would expect it to walk the dependency tree
in a predictable order.


The problem with the pre-existing targets is that they do not take the 
user's choices in OPTIONS into account. portmaster's technique (while

not perfect) at least does that.


True, but that's not really needed in order to answer questions like
"Why is this port installing foo?"  Once we know which dependency leads
to foo, we can look to see if there's an option to disable it somewhere
up the tree.

Same for the original problem at the start of this thread. Once we know
where foo gets pulled in, we can look to see if it's a BUILD or a RUN
dependency. (Although it would be nice if whatever tool is displaying
the tree would have indicated that already, just as it would nice if
portions of the tree were "greyed out" if the controlling options are
turned off...)
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Re: Compiling ports in a post-9.0-RELEASE world

[Charlie Kester]

On Tue 15 Mar 2011 at 11:20:40 PDT Konstantin Tokarev wrote:


3. Fix Clang to compile more ports



That would be my vote too, but we should probably focus on solutions the
ports team can control.

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Re: Compiling ports in a post-9.0-RELEASE world

[Charlie Kester]

On Tue 15 Mar 2011 at 11:39:28 PDT Konstantin Tokarev wrote:



15.03.2011, 21:32, "Charlie Kester" :

On Tue 15 Mar 2011 at 11:20:40 PDT Konstantin Tokarev wrote:


3. Fix Clang to compile more ports


That would be my vote too, but we should probably focus on solutions the
ports team can control.


You can post bug reports to Clang team. maybe some of them will be
solved before the release of 9.0


Of course, we should definitely do that.  


But ports team should have a plan in place, in case those PR's aren't
resolved in time. 
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deprecated ports

[Charlie Kester]

I see there's been another few batch commits deprecating some
unmaintained ports where "upstream is gone and/or distfile is no longer
available."

Maintainers and prospective maintainers should be sure to look at the
ports listed in these commits.  I don't think much effort was made to
check the availability of the distfiles.  Instead, it seems that all
that was done was to try the MASTER_SITES, etc. from the port Makefiles,
and if the fetch failed, onto the list they went.

NOTE: I'm NOT saying the committers' procedure was too lazy or anything
like that.  There are a lot of these broken ports in the tree, and
deprecation seems like a reasonable step to take -- especially if the
result is to trigger some action from people who want to see these ports
retained.

I just rescued one of these, sysutils/lookat, that was deprecated a few
days ago.  I followed the WWW link in the pkg-descr, found that the
author's website was still up and that the distfile could still be
downloaded -- but the download url had changed.  So all the port needed
was a tweak to the MASTER_SITES.

Today I see that the fairly popular graphics/gimpshop has also been
deprecated.  Here the WWW link from pkg-descr also fails, but a quick
websearch found the new (?) official website for this app:
http://www.gimpshop.com, where the distfile is available for download.
So here's another one that can be easily rescued.

And I'll bet there are more.

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Re: deprecated ports

[Charlie Kester]

On Tue 15 Mar 2011 at 14:59:57 PDT Jason Helfman wrote:

On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 02:58:01PM -0700, Charlie Kester thus spake:

I see there's been another few batch commits deprecating some
unmaintained ports where "upstream is gone and/or distfile is no longer
available."

Maintainers and prospective maintainers should be sure to look at the
ports listed in these commits.  I don't think much effort was made to
check the availability of the distfiles.  Instead, it seems that all
that was done was to try the MASTER_SITES, etc. from the port Makefiles,
and if the fetch failed, onto the list they went.

NOTE: I'm NOT saying the committers' procedure was too lazy or anything
like that.  There are a lot of these broken ports in the tree, and
deprecation seems like a reasonable step to take -- especially if the
result is to trigger some action from people who want to see these ports
retained.

I just rescued one of these, sysutils/lookat, that was deprecated a few
days ago.  I followed the WWW link in the pkg-descr, found that the
author's website was still up and that the distfile could still be
downloaded -- but the download url had changed.  So all the port needed
was a tweak to the MASTER_SITES.

Today I see that the fairly popular graphics/gimpshop has also been
deprecated.  Here the WWW link from pkg-descr also fails, but a quick
websearch found the new (?) official website for this app:
http://www.gimpshop.com, where the distfile is available for download.
So here's another one that can be easily rescued.

And I'll bet there are more.


To this point I just found another:
sysutils/idled was just deprecated the other day.

In following some weblinks, I found that doinkd has replaced it:
sysutils/doinkd

:)

Maybe the DEPRECATION line should be altered.



Two more found with a simple web query:

finance/xinvest and finance/xquote are now on sourceforge.
http://xinvest.sourceforge.net/

BTW, I don't use either of these, or gimpshop, so I'm not going to fix
the ports myself.  Instead, I'll leave that to anyone who's interested.

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Re: deprecated ports

[Charlie Kester]

On Tue 15 Mar 2011 at 15:19:29 PDT Baptiste Daroussin wrote:

 I am responsible for the deprecation and I have done more than just
 look if the distfiles fetch (I fixed lot of them) I may have missed
 some for sure, when when I deprecate sysutils/lookat I wasn't able to
 join the main website nor to fetch a distfile.  About gimpshop it may
 be wrong, but one there website I only found windows and mac
 binaries, nothing.  I am human and I can make mistakes. thanks
 pointing the mistakes.  I really will be happy to remove the
 deprecation and expiration if people wanted to maintain or point me
 to the right WWW and MASTER_SITES for the given ports.  regards,*
 Bapt


My apologies for misrepresenting your efforts, bapt.  I meant no
disrespect.  


I'm just trying to whip up some followup action from the readers, so you
don't have to do all this by yourself.  :)  We've recently heard calls
for new blood.  Well, here's a way people can help.

Maybe it wasn't there when you looked, but
http://www.gimpshop.com/download.shtml has links to download sources for
both the development version and the latest release (2.2.8).  They even
have an alternate link for the release version.
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Re: deprecated ports

[Charlie Kester]

On Wed 16 Mar 2011 at 03:45:25 PDT Matthias Andree wrote:

However, we should be sure to find maintainers before ports are
undeprecated, else we run into a cycle of deprecation, reviving the
port, deprecating it again, and so on.


I definitely agree with this.  If someone wants to get one of these
ports off the deprecated list, they should be willing to maintain it.

I'm willing to take on more myself, but I'm not running a home for
orphaned ports here.  There has to be something about the port that
interests me.  I'm fond of commandline tools and ncurses-based
interfaces, for example, which is why I took lookat.

We have far too many unmaintained ports in the tree.  I applaud this
effort to weed out the stale ones.

I certainly didn't intend for my comments re gimpshop, xinvest and
xquote to lead to them being pulled off the deprecated list but still
unmaintained.  If no one else wants them, I'll take xinvest and xquote,
since I'm responsible for their current status.

But I'm leery of the whole gimp-y swamp.  If I took gimpshop, I'd
probably be in over my head.  So I hope you'll understand if I decline.
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Re: Deprecation campaign

[Charlie Kester]

On Thu 17 Mar 2011 at 03:36:38 PDT Pietro Cerutti wrote:

Well, this is not how it works. There are a lot of old ports which are
not being developped upstreams anymore. Probably nobody is interested
in maintaining those, because there's nothing to do to those ports
other than fixing potential build problems. However, this doesn't imply
that the port is useless or that nobody's interested in using it.  Not
all consumers of FreeBSD ports follow ports@.

I'd be very carful on killing ports. I agree on killing BROKEN ports
where the distfiles are not fetchable anymore. In this case, nobody can
benefit from having the (non working) port. But I wouldn't go further.

And I'd welcome ANY effort to resurrect a port or make it workable
again, even if it does not imply setting a real MAINTAINER.


I agree with you that a port shouldn't be deprecated simply because
there hasn't been much recent activity upstream.  Often that's simply an
indication that the software is mature and relatively bug-free.  It does
not in any way imply that the software is no longer useful.   (Think of
all the stuff in /usr/bin that hasn't changed in years!)

But I think the fact that many of the ports we're discussing in this
thread had become unfetchable from the MASTER_SITES listed in their
Makefiles is sufficient proof of the need for maintainers even when
upstream is idling.  Authors move their websites all the time, and they
take their projects with them.  Sometimes, perhaps as a cost-cutting
measure, they shut down their self-hosted sites and move their projects
to a repository like SourceForge.  Or maybe they just reorganize their
site, so that the downloads are now at a new address. So we see a need
for a MASTER_SITES update even when the upstream author hasn't done
anything that changes the distfile we need to download.

If, as you say, these old ports don't require much work from a
maintainer, I don't see why anyone who wants to keep them in the
portstree should hesitate to put his name on them.
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Re: [HEADS UP] Ports Infrastructure Changes

[Charlie Kester]

On Sat 19 Mar 2011 at 12:18:42 PDT Olivier Smedts wrote:

2011/3/19 Michal Varga :

On Sat, 2011-03-19 at 09:49 +0800, Martin Wilke wrote:


Attached is a proposed list of ports being moved from the www category.
Please review, discuss and report ommissions and mistakes. The general
key to the new categories is as follows:


[...]


www-webapps - web apps, frameworks, libraries


Just a quick thought to the 'discuss' part: Is this (above) really the
best name possible?

I mean "world wide web-webapps" sounds kind of redundant.


OK, this is a bikeshed discussion, but I agree here. www-apps would be
more appropriate.


Well, on behalf of the blue bikeshed, I'd like to point out that
www-apps isn't specific enough to exclude all the things that are going
into the other www- categories.

How about www-serverapps?
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Re: Removing Cruft from the ports tree

[Charlie Kester]

On Thu 31 Mar 2011 at 22:57:44 PDT Matthew D. Fuller wrote:


So, while removing OPTIONS alone may be good, we really need to
dismantle the system that caused the need for them in the first place
to avoid creating a greater mess.  I think it coud be useful to turn
to Wikipedia for an example (and indeed, not just an example, but a
pre-built distribution system!).  By simply eliminating any sort of
officially "blessed" ports tree (with all the complications and
liabilities that entails), encouraging users to set up Wikipedia pages
with recipes for building packages, and building a little
infrastructure (using sufficient tools already existing in the base
system; we can easily backport to 6.x and beyond) for fetching them
down and building on request, we can free up an enormous amount of
machine- and man-power, while making the result far more democratic.

Really, the only significant challenge is rogue vandalism, but again,
Wikipedia itself has already developed systems for handling that.  It
may take a little effort on our part to keep that up for our
particular needs, but surely far less than is currently required.  And
as an additional bonus, by having it available on an easily-editable
wiki, we can save all the trouble of submitting and load of dealing
with PR's, and reduce our dependance on gnats too.  It's pretty much
all upside, when you think about it.


Or we could simply stop fighting the common misconception that there's
such a thing as a BSD distro.  Instead, we should embrace the concept
and encourage people to combine the kernel and userland with their own
preferred set of packages, built with their preferred set of options and
configurations, and to make the result available somewhere for download
-- preferably on a site they host themselves.

PC-BSD has already made the first steps in this direction.

No one understands the distinction we're making between OS'es and
distros anyway.  The prevailing opinion seems to be that the quality of
an OS can be gauged, for example, by whether or not it has a graphical
installer, whether it uses KDE or Gnome, and whether or not it can run
Flash.

:)
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Re: Error when updating sudo

[Charlie Kester]

On Sun 10 Apr 2011 at 23:03:34 PDT Leslie Jensen wrote:


I get the error below when updating/installing sudo

everything in the file /usr/local/etc/sudoers near line 97

is commented out!


If the comment just before line 97 is to be believed, the line beginning
with "#include" is NOT commented out.

I saw the same error and, since my sudoers.d file was empty anyway, I
hacked around the problem by adding a second '#' to the beginning of
that line, so that it was truly commented out.

But as I said, that's a hack and probably not the best solution.



Thanks

/Leslie




-Wl,-soname -Wl,sample_group.so -Wl,-retain-symbols-file 
-Wl,./sample_group.sym -o .libs/sample_group.so
libtool: link: ( cd ".libs" && rm -f "sample_group.la" && ln -s 
"../sample_group.la" "sample_group.la" )

===>  Installing for sudo-1.8.1
===>   Generating temporary packing list
===>  Checking if security/sudo already installed
if test -d ./.hg && cd .; then  if hg log --style=changelog -b 1.8 > 
ChangeLog.tmp && hg log --style=changelog -b default --date '<2011-02-25 
21:30:00' >> ChangeLog.tmp; then  mv -f ChangeLog.tmp ChangeLog;  else 
rm -f ChangeLog.tmp;  fi;  fi
for d in compat common  plugins/sudoers src include doc;  do (cd $d && 
exec make pre-install) && continue;  exit $?;  done

Checking existing sudoers file for syntax errors.
visudo: >>> /usr/local/etc/sudoers: /usr/local/etc/sudoers.d near line 
97 <<<

parse error in /usr/local/etc/sudoers near line 97
*** Error code 1

Stop in /usr/ports/security/sudo/work/sudo-1.8.1/plugins/sudoers.
*** Error code 1

Stop in /usr/ports/security/sudo/work/sudo-1.8.1.
*** Error code 1

Stop in /usr/ports/security/sudo.
*** Error code 1

Stop in /usr/ports/security/sudo.

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Re: saving a few ports from death

[Charlie Kester]

On Mon 25 Apr 2011 at 17:48:31 PDT Doug Barton wrote:

What we're trying to do here is to eliminate ports that are no longer
useful.


If we had some popularity stats, it would be interesting to see where
the unmaintained ports fall on the list.  Unfortunately, bsdstats
doesn't include this anymore.

Maybe freshports could implement a voting system like the one at
osx.iusethis.com?


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Re: saving a few ports from death

[Charlie Kester]

On Mon 25 Apr 2011 at 22:55:10 PDT Ade Lovett wrote:


On Apr 25, 2011, at 21:41 , Charlie Kester wrote:

Maybe freshports could implement a voting system like the one at
osx.iusethis.com?


"Voting" implies some kind of democracy.


I just thought it might be useful to get some actual data to support the
inference that an unmaintained port is likely to be an unused and
therefore unneeded port.

I have no objection to your argument that what gets done is what someone
is willing to do.  And I am sensitive to the fact that every port
imposes some additional burden on the system.  I'm all for cleaning out
the cruft.

I'm not a web programmer and don't have access to the freshports
sourcecode. So all I can do there is make a suggestion. But perhaps I'll
take some time to go through the list of unmaintained ports and manually
check them against the popularity ratings on a site like freshmeat.
It's a bit of a leap to assume that a program that's popular on Linux
will be as popular on BSD, but it's the best data we have for the time
being.
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Re: saving a few ports from death

[Charlie Kester]

On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 09:34:24 PDT Charlie Kester wrote:


I'm not a web programmer and don't have access to the freshports
sourcecode. So all I can do there is make a suggestion. But perhaps I'll
take some time to go through the list of unmaintained ports and manually
check them against the popularity ratings on a site like freshmeat.
It's a bit of a leap to assume that a program that's popular on Linux
will be as popular on BSD, but it's the best data we have for the time
being.


FWIW, here are some popularity/vitality stats from freshmeat for
unmaintained ports in the sysutils category.

Freshmeat calculates these stats as follows:

popularity = ((record hits + URL hits) * (subscriptions + 1))^(1/2)

where record hits = hits on the freshmeat project page, url hits =
clickthroughs to author's projectpage or download site, and
subscriptions = freshmeat users following the project.

vitality = ((announcements * age) / (last_announcement))^(1/2)

"The number of announcements a project has made is multiplied by the
number of days it has existed in the database, which is then divided by
the days passed since the last release. This way, projects with lots of
announcements that have been around for a long time and have recently
come out with a new release earn a high vitality score, and old projects
that have only been announced once get a low vitality score."

For comparison and to give a sense of scale, here are the stats for some
well-known projects:

NamePopularity  Vitality

mplayer 3,995.2045.16

MySQL   3,310.5573.39

mutt1,032.7142.53

conky   173.67  3.60

exaile  64.48   3.75

In the attached file, ports listed with popularity and vitality scores = 0
are those where there is no entry in the freshmeat database.

I made no effort to verify that a freshmeat project with the same name
as the port is in fact the same program, so there might be some false
positives in the data.
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Re: saving a few ports from death

[Charlie Kester]

On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 14:27:47 PDT Charlie Kester wrote:

On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 09:34:24 PDT Charlie Kester wrote:


I'm not a web programmer and don't have access to the freshports
sourcecode. So all I can do there is make a suggestion. But perhaps I'll
take some time to go through the list of unmaintained ports and manually
check them against the popularity ratings on a site like freshmeat.
It's a bit of a leap to assume that a program that's popular on Linux
will be as popular on BSD, but it's the best data we have for the time
being.


FWIW, here are some popularity/vitality stats from freshmeat for
unmaintained ports in the sysutils category.

Freshmeat calculates these stats as follows:

popularity = ((record hits + URL hits) * (subscriptions + 1))^(1/2)

where record hits = hits on the freshmeat project page, url hits =
clickthroughs to author's projectpage or download site, and
subscriptions = freshmeat users following the project.

vitality = ((announcements * age) / (last_announcement))^(1/2)

"The number of announcements a project has made is multiplied by the
number of days it has existed in the database, which is then divided by
the days passed since the last release. This way, projects with lots of
announcements that have been around for a long time and have recently
come out with a new release earn a high vitality score, and old projects
that have only been announced once get a low vitality score."

For comparison and to give a sense of scale, here are the stats for some
well-known projects:

NamePopularity  Vitality

mplayer 3,995.2045.16

MySQL   3,310.5573.39

mutt1,032.7142.53

conky   173.67  3.60

exaile  64.48   3.75

In the attached file, ports listed with popularity and vitality scores = 0
are those where there is no entry in the freshmeat database.

I made no effort to verify that a freshmeat project with the same name
as the port is in fact the same program, so there might be some false
positives in the data.


Drat, the mailinglist rejected the attachment.  If anyone wants to see
it, send me a private email and I'll reply with a copy.
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Re: saving a few ports from death

[Charlie Kester]

On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 14:34:00 PDT Charlie Kester wrote:

On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 14:27:47 PDT Charlie Kester wrote:

FWIW, here are some popularity/vitality stats from freshmeat for
unmaintained ports in the sysutils category.


Drat, the mailinglist rejected the attachment.  If anyone wants to see
it, send me a private email and I'll reply with a copy.


Here are the top ten most "popular" unmaintained ports from this
category, in case someone's looking for one to adopt:

"name""popularity"  "vitality"
"k3b" 754.12  120.91
"sg3_utils"   444.46  41.9
"LPRng"   303.65  5.13
"afio"292.62  2.44
"anteater"237.11  4.26
"bchunk"  215.97  2.71
"userinfo"211.26  23.51
"ddrescue"210.72  8.82
"cpuburn" 207.73  1
"cw"  207.28  11.25

k3b looks like an obvious choice.

I restricted my search to this category while hammering out my approach.
Now that I have my code proved out, I'm going to expand it to look at
all unmaintained ports regardless of category.   Any suggestions for
where I should post the results?  (That is, unless you think the
bitbucket is the only suitable place for it.)
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Re: saving a few ports from death

[Charlie Kester]

On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 15:15:54 PDT Jerry wrote:


If no one steps up claiming to need the port, then good riddance. If on
the other hand a user claims a valid use of the port, let them take
responsibility for it or find someone who will. Leaving intact ports
that either don't build, cannot be fetched, etcetera does not really
make a lot of sense.


No disagreement here.  Just now I ran a query on freshports and found
almost 5000 ports with maintainer=po...@freebsd.org.  That's way too
many!

My search for "popularity" metrics is intended to point me, as a
maintainer, to ports I might want to adopt now, rather than wait for
someone to complain about them.  Everything *I* use is already
maintained, so I've moved on to looking for things other people might
need.  But I don't want to waste my time on something that nobody uses.
:)

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Dropping maintainership of my ports

[Charlie Kester]

Well, due to some serious philosophical differences re these
deprecation campaigns and what seems to be resistance to any further
discussion, I don't think I can continue working with the committers.
So I'm stepping down.

If no one else wants to maintain them, please reset the maintainer of 
the following ports to po...@freebsd.org:


audio/mcplay
deskutils/osmo
deskutils/teapot
devel/argtable
devel/egypt
devel/gengetopt
devel/libXGP
devel/libYGP
finance/xinvest
finance/xquote
graphics/box
graphics/boxer
graphics/fly
graphics/sng
math/ised
misc/vifm
misc/xsw
multimedia/gpodder
multimedia/openshot
multimedia/photofilmstrip
security/beecrypt
security/ccrypt
security/nettle
security/ranpwd
sysutils/dircomp
sysutils/gaffitter
sysutils/iextract
sysutils/lookat
sysutils/moreutils
sysutils/moreutils-parallel
sysutils/ncdu
sysutils/rdup
textproc/tdhkit
x11/fbpanel


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Re: Dropping maintainership of my ports

[Charlie Kester]

On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 22:15:58 PDT Zhihao Yuan wrote:

On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 8:43 PM, Charlie Kester  wrote:


Well, due to some serious philosophical differences re these
deprecation campaigns and what seems to be resistance to any further
discussion, I don't think I can continue working with the committers.
So I'm stepping down.

If no one else wants to maintain them, please reset the maintainer of the
following ports to po...@freebsd.org:

audio/mcplay
deskutils/osmo
deskutils/teapot
devel/argtable
devel/egypt
devel/gengetopt
devel/libXGP
devel/libYGP
finance/xinvest
finance/xquote
graphics/box
graphics/boxer
graphics/fly
graphics/sng
math/ised
misc/vifm
misc/xsw
multimedia/gpodder
multimedia/openshot
multimedia/photofilmstrip
security/beecrypt
security/ccrypt
security/nettle
security/ranpwd
sysutils/dircomp
sysutils/gaffitter
sysutils/iextract
sysutils/lookat
sysutils/moreutils
sysutils/moreutils-parallel
sysutils/ncdu
sysutils/rdup
textproc/tdhkit
x11/fbpanel


O-o-ok... philosophical differences.

audio/mcplay and the 3 multimedia-related ports, + fbpanel, have many
users, AFAIK, and require much works. We need to someone to take them
soon.


I don't know what you mean by "requires much works".  The only ones of
these ports that are not up-to-date are xquote and nettle. 


There is already an open PR to update nettle.  All it needs is some
attention from a committer. 


Frankly, xquote should be deprecated, as it's an old-style Motif app
that's so ugly I'll bet no one uses it.  I only took it (and the related
xinvest) because they got reinstated after I pointed out they were still
fetchable at a new location.

Everything else is in good shape.

I've been told that we shouldn't be looking for reasons to save any
unmaintained port, and I was specifically told this in response to my
efforts to identify ports that have a lot of users.  So I don't think
current policy supports the conclusion that "we need to find someone to
take them soon."

There, in a nutshell, you have the philosophical disagreement which led
to my decision to be done with ports.  


If the powers-that-be want to deprecate all of these and lighten the
load on the system and themselves, I no longer care.  I know how to
download a tarball and run through the configure/make/install routine,
so I'll still be able to run the software I need.  I thought I'd lend a
hand to those who don't have those skills, but it doesn't seem that this
contribution is welcomed or appreciated.  "There are too many ports!"

(Sorry if I'm ranting, I am still very angry about all this.)
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Re: Dropping maintainership of my ports

[Charlie Kester]

On Tue 26 Apr 2011 at 23:27:40 PDT John Marino wrote:


You're just sulking because your idea of identifying popular ports
wasn't met with enthusiasm.  



No, it's more than that.  I got the distinct impression that many of the
committers would be unhappy if I took maintainership of some of the
ports I might identify as "popular", because it would interfere with
their plans to trim the portstree.

Re-read the thread.  At every point I'm talking about looking for ports
I (and others) might want to maintain, as a service to their users.  Now
ask yourself why I've been getting so much resistance to that, when we
keep hearing how deprecated ports can be easily resurrected if someone
steps up to maintain them?  


Every response from the committers ignored what I said I was trying to
do, and instead repeated the same old arguments about stale,
unfetchable, broken or superceded ports.  That "talking points" response
tells me that they didn't want me doing what I was doing to buck an
already-established policy of letting unmaintained ports die unless and
until someone complains.

Today wasn't the first time I've had this discussion with them.  But it
was the last straw as far as I'm concerned.

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Re: saving a few ports from death

[Charlie Kester]

On Wed 27 Apr 2011 at 14:05:57 PDT Eitan Adler wrote:

apache13 is EOL upstream. We should not have ports for EOL software.


Why not, exactly?..


What happens if a security hole or a bug is found? Are we the ones to
fix it? 


No.  The rule of caveat emptor should apply.  We don't warranty anything
else in the portstree, why would you think that there's an implied
warranty in this scenario?

If yes are we to host the patches? 


The question is moot, given a negative answer to the preceding one.

Where should the bug reports go to - our bug tracker? 


If they do get submitted there, they should be immediately closed as
"Won't Fix". 


What if our implementation ceases to match established documentation?
Should we host the docs too?


Same answers as above.



The ports collection is one of *third party* software (with a couple
of small exceptions). If the third party says "this program is done,
has bugs which won't be fixed, etc" we should no longer support it.


Keeping it in the tree != obligation to provide support, i.e., bugfixes
for anything except the port Makefile and other port-related files.  As
long as there's a maintainer willing to do the work to keep it running
(warts and all) on the currently-supported FreeBSD releases, I don't see
any reason why it can't be kept in the tree.



If upstream says it's dead, who are we to keep it alive?


We are a major Operating System project, which maintains ports of
third-party applications for the convenience of our users. An
EOL-declaration by the authors does not mean, the users must stop using it
immediately -- it simply says, the authors will not be releasing
updates/bug-fixes.


Correct. However (a) if the third party gave an upgrade path we should
encourage our users to use it and (b) if there *are* known bugs and
especially security holes we should cease to make it available through
our tree.


Agree with (a) but maybe not (b).  That's a decision that should be left
to the users.



If a user says "I found an issue with X and it is EOL upstream" the
correct response is to "upgrade to a supported version".


See above.


However this discussion is different to the one that we started with
(namely that of deprecated ports) so lets try and get back on track :-)


Actually, it's a closely related question.
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Re: How are [MAINTAINER] patches handled and why aren't PRs FIFO?

[Charlie Kester]

On Wed 27 Apr 2011 at 16:15:19 PDT Jerry wrote:


Following through on that logic, only the highest priority items would
ever get done. Since there is a never ending list of things that have
to be done at any given time, the lowest priority ones would never get
any attention. 


Which is as it should be, if it's true that we're faced with
insufficient resources.

The problem is that we don't have any objective way to determine
priorities.  Instead we leave this up to the personal interests and
whims of the people involved -- maintainers AND committers.
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Re: portmaster: printing messages that do not come from pkg-message files

[Charlie Kester]

On Sat 02 Jan 2010 at 09:14:11 PST Julien Laffaye wrote:

2010/1/2 Nikola Le??i?? :

Hello,

portmaster's feature to print collected pkg-message files after
successful installation is very useful. However, there are many ports
that echo messages from inside Makefile, usually in post-install phase
(but not exclusively there).

A simple question: would it be possible (or better, would it be
desirable) to collect that text as well and to include it in the final
output in the same way it is done with pkg-messages?



Hi,

It's better to correct these ports to make them use pkg-message, so it
will be printed by portmaster *and* pkg_add (dont forget packages !)


Sometimes whether a message is echoed depends on a knob.  The porter's
handbook includes examples of this.  Is there a way to get the same
effect with pkg-messages?
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Re: portmaster: printing messages that do not come from pkg-message files

[Charlie Kester]

On Sat 02 Jan 2010 at 13:32:05 PST Wesley Shields wrote:

On Sat, Jan 02, 2010 at 01:11:38PM -0800, Charlie Kester wrote:


Sometimes whether a message is echoed depends on a knob.  The porter's
handbook includes examples of this.  Is there a way to get the same
effect with pkg-messages?


See devel/git for an example of displaying pkg-message depending upon a
knob. I'm sure with a bit of creativity you could display only a
portion of pkg-message depending upon a knob.


Thanks.  I just checked the handbook again and couldn't find the
examples I thought I had seen there.  I'll take a look at devel/git.
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Dropping maintainership of two of my ports

[Charlie Kester]

I've decided to drop maintainership of two of my ports, since I haven't
been able to give them the attention they are due:

graphics/bmeps
devel/dklibs

bmeps and dklibs are by the same author, and bmeps depends on dklibs. So
if someone take one of these, he should probably also take the other.

Brief synopsis of the work that needs doing:

Both ports have been out-of-date for a few months now.

The previous version of both bmeps and dklibs introduced some Java
utilities to the package, but I excluded these from the ports for the
time being because I wasn't sure how to get them installed and running
correctly.  Perhaps someone more familiar with Java and with porting
Java apps will take a look at this.  


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Re: patch upgrade for port committers?

[Charlie Kester]

On Thu 28 Jan 2010 at 13:37:06 PST Doug Barton wrote:


Any time you send someone a patch for any reason that deletes an 
existing file it is worthwhile to call the person's attention to this 
fact.


When you submit a port/update that ADDS a file it is definitely
worthwhile to mention this as well.


Good advice that should be added to the porter's handbook.
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Re: patch upgrade for port committers?

[Charlie Kester]

On Thu 28 Jan 2010 at 18:25:30 PST Alberto Villa wrote:

On 1/28/10, Charlie Kester  wrote:

On Thu 28 Jan 2010 at 13:37:06 PST Doug Barton wrote:

When you submit a port/update that ADDS a file it is definitely
worthwhile to mention this as well.


Good advice that should be added to the porter's handbook.


http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/books/porters-handbook/port-upgrading.html

"Please mention any added or deleted files in the message, as they
have to be explicitly specified to cvs(1) when doing a commit."

;)


Well, I'll be darned.  There it is!

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Re: FreeBSD Ports Problem - Please help

[Charlie Kester]

On Fri 12 Feb 2010 at 10:25:51 PST Dominic Fandrey wrote:

Hmm, I just tested it, because my port sysutils contains pkg_libchk,
which has a very similar function.  


[...]


It doesn't have libchk's ability to list unused libraries, though.


Libchk's manpage contains a warning about this.  You shouldn't leap to
the conclusion that what it calls "unreferenced libraries" are "unused".

That uncertainty does tend to reduce the usefulness of the list, so your
package doesn't suffer in the comparison as much as you might think.  :)

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Re: Combining multiple programs in single port

[Charlie Kester]

On Tue 16 Feb 2010 at 10:27:56 PST Doug Barton wrote:

On 2/16/2010 7:33 AM, Jeroen Schot wrote:

Hello all,

I want to provide a port for a set of small utilities[1], all in the same
scope and from the same upstream, to FreeBSD. Since all are very small
(around 100 line of C), making seven separate ports seems a bit
overkill.


Given that these are distinctly different tools, and seem to have their
own individual sources, different ports would be the way to go.


In most cases where a port provides a suite of tools (e.g., my own
sysutils/moreutils), you'll find that the upstream author has already
bundled them together into a single distfile.

Doing that on the port side seems like more trouble than it's worth.

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Re: Bluefish 2.0.0 released!

[Charlie Kester]

On Thu 25 Feb 2010 at 12:17:59 PST simp...@gmail.com wrote:

News 2010 - February 15 - Bluefish 2.0.0 released!

I can't find it in the latest ports collection.


Others have explained how to contact the maintainer of a port, and how
to determine that it has no maintainer.

But perhaps some expectation-setting is needed here.  


Bluefish 2.0.0 was released a mere ten days ago.  Before it will appear
in the ports collection, two things have to happen.

First the maintainer must modify the port as needed to get it to compile
on FreeBSD.  Sometimes that's trivially simple, sometimes it's
diabolically complex.  If the port is depended upon by others, for
example, there might be a need to coordinate the update with them.  So
it's not unusual for the maintainer's part of the porting process to
take several days or even weeks.

Second, after the maintainer has submitted a PR with the update, the
committers need to test it. That takes time.  Also, judging by what I
can see in the list of currently-open PR's, many committers always have
a dozen or more in process.  It's not uncommon (or unreasonable) that
this part of the porting process will take several days or even weeks in
addition to the time the maintainer needed.


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Re: Ports with same name

[Charlie Kester]

On Tue 09 Mar 2010 at 10:25:14 PST Gary Jennejohn wrote:

On Tue, 9 Mar 2010 10:23:51 -0500
Steven Kreuzer  wrote:


Hello-

As documented in http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=ports/144277
we have two ports with the same name:

Port:   gag-2.9
Path:   /usr/ports/security/gag
Info:   A stacheldraht (DOS attack) agent detector
Maint:  po...@freebsd.org
B-deps: 
R-deps: 
WWW:http://www.washington.edu/People/dad/

Port:   gag-4.9
Path:   /usr/ports/sysutils/gag
Info:   Graphical Boot Manager
Maint:  alepul...@freebsd.org
B-deps: 
R-deps: 
WWW:http://gag.sourceforge.net/

I am looking for some advice on whats the best course of action to deal with 
this.

My gut feeling is that sysutils/gag should remain the same and that 
security/gag should be
renamed to security/gag-stacheldraht.

Anyone vehemently opposed to this?



So where's the problem?  sysutils/gag doesn't seem to install a binary
which would conflict with security/gag.  In fact, it doesn't seem to
install an executable at all, based on examining the Makefile and
pkg-plist.


Could be a problem for tools like portmaster that allow the user to
specify the port name only, rather than category/portname.  


If a user has both gags installed and then runs "portmaster gag", how
should portmaster resolve the ambiguity?


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Re: Java For Firefox

[Charlie Kester]

On Fri 19 Mar 2010 at 10:24:51 PDT Programmer In Training wrote:

On 03/19/10 11:48, Jerry wrote:


Is there any reason that you don't simply install 'bash'? I use it as
my shell and love it.


It came on very strong recommendation from one of my geek friends as an
alternative to bash (which he termed as a "joke"). I've managed to make
some basic cosmetic customizations to it that make it /look/ like bash,
so I'm happy with that. Just have to get use to not having tab-complete
suggestions (or find a way to enable that, too).


There are things in bash that I find quite useful (enhanced variable
substitution and shell functions are two that I use most often) and I
refuse to forego them just because some geek thinks bash is a 'joke'.

Both shells have their pro's and con's. Rather than commit exclusively
to either one, a wiser course is to use the one that's best suited to
the task at hand. Sometimes that's tcsh, sometimes it's bash.  


In other words, make it an engineering decision, not a social or a
political one. 
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Re: net/xorp - scattering file locations.

[Charlie Kester]

On Fri 19 Mar 2010 at 18:19:53 PDT jhell wrote:


The above mentioned port installs or otherwise scatters quite a few 
(10 or more) new directories into /usr/local/. Did I miss some 
configuration setting that I had to explicitly state in order for 
everything to just be installed in /usr/local/xorp or maybe in a more

proper place.


Looking at the pkg-plist for the port, this is the normal, expected
installation.  I don't see many lines controlled by a PLIST_SUB, so I
don't think this can be changed by setting some options.
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Re: LyX on FreeBSD

[Charlie Kester]

On Sat 27 Mar 2010 at 09:34:54 PDT Baptiste Daroussin wrote:

Le Saturday 27 Mar 2010 à 17:32:42 (+0100), Marco Beishuizen a écrit :

Hi,

I was wondering why LyX in the FreeBSD ports isn't upgraded anymore. The
current version in ports is still 1.5.7, but the latest LyX version is
1.6.5. The version in ports is 1,5 years old.


Probably because noone has taken time to do the job (lyx15 has no
maintainer) but feel free to send a PR to update it or even better to
maintain it.


If Baptiste declines. I can take maintainership of this one.

-- Charlie
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Re: "stable" ports?

[Charlie Kester]

On Tue 30 Mar 2010 at 04:55:01 PDT Matthias Andree wrote:


I don't think this proposal is useful. Technically it would work, but socially
it wouldn't. Why?  RELENG_* tagging would require that port maintainers oversee
the implications for all supported FreeBSD releases, possibly run tinderboxen to
test (and thereabouts) and would likely scare away maintainers.  Not
exactly what we need.


Maintainers are already effectively forced to run tinderboxen when
commmitters respond to PR's with terse comments like "Build failed on
FreeBSD 6.x, here's the build log, please look into it."  ;)

Not that I mind.  I enjoy the debugging exercise.  But if there's going
to be increased pressure to use tinderbox, perhaps something could be
done to streamline and speedup the creation of new jails?  


I'm not sure what I think about this proposal, however, or whether my
relatively obscure ports will even be affected by it.  So I'm following
the discussion with interest but don't know enough to contribute
anything useful.

-- Charlie
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Re: [ HEADS UP ] Ports unstable for the next 10 days

[Charlie Kester]

On Sun 28 Mar 2010 at 06:38:28 PDT Ion-Mihai Tetcu wrote:

Hi,


As announced before, a few big commits, that touch some thousands ports
are being done: png, curl, x11, gnome, kde4. The target ETA is 6-7
April.

The first one was done, update of graphics/png (including a shared lib
version bump), with about 5000 ports affected.

We do _NOT_ recommend updating ports until this commits are all done,
and the problems are fixed, except if you want to help testing / fixing.

Before reporting failures, please take a look at ports@ list, and
http://qat.tecnik93.com/index.php?action=failed_buildports&sort=last_built
to find out if the problem hasn't already been reported or even fixed.
We also have two incremental builds on Pointy to catch the problems.


Thank you,

With hat:   portmgr@



Sorry if this seems like nagging, but since we're now past the original
ETA can we get a current status report?  Is the portstree considered
stable again, and if not, what's the revised ETA?

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Re: Dynamic plists

[Charlie Kester]

On Thu 22 Apr 2010 at 08:48:55 PDT Rob Farmer wrote:

On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 11:57 PM, Lars Engels  wrote:

On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 08:18:29AM +0200, Dominic Fandrey wrote:

On 22/04/2010 01:45, Rob Farmer wrote:
> I maintain math/scilab and am preparing to update it. This port has a
> huge plist (slightly under 15000 lines), hundreds of which change
> depending on what options are selected. It is a bit of a pain to
> update. The porters handbook makes vague reference to dynamic plists -
> so I was wondering, would this be a good idea? And if so, what is the
> best way to make one?

You normally base it on the output of
${FIND} -s PATH -type f
${FIND} -d PATH -type d | ${SED} 's,^,@dirrm ,'

Of course there's normally more to it, but that's the basic principle.



Or use auto-plist:
http://www.marcuscom.com:8080/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/portstools/auto-plist/



Seems to have the same limitation of genplist - it doesn't address the
fact that the plist may change if OPTIONS change.


I feel your pain.  


But tools like genplist and auto-plist might get you part of the way to
your solution.  To get the rest of the way, you might need to write a
custom maintenance script.

Just thinking out loud here, but it seems you'll need to something
similar to what mergemaster does:

- enable all the options and use 'genplist create' to get a new plist
- diff the previous portversion's plist and the new genplist
- emit any lines that haven't changed
- for lines that differ only in the presence of a PLIST_SUB variable at
  the beginning of the old line, emit the old line
- ignore any lines which exist only in the old plist
- for lines that are new, prompt for a decision on what to do  (leave as
  is or preface with one of a predetermined set of PLIST_SUB variables)

This doesn't automate the whole process, but at least it reduces the
manual inspection and intervention to the plist lines that really need
it. 


This is only a first stab at the problem, so the steps I outlined
probably need to be refined and debugged.

Or maybe I'm just being stupid.  Wouldn't be the first time.  :)
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Re: GSoC: Making ports work with clang

[Charlie Kester]

On Sun 02 May 2010 at 14:03:06 PDT Andrius Mork??nas wrote:

On Sun, 02 May 2010 23:17:00 +0300, Eitan Adler  
wrote:

Good - and those 30% of ports will help improve clang++ even more.

Some probably will, we submit a lot of bug reports for clang/llvm.


Hopefully over time that number will increase to 100% and we will be
able to say goodbye to gcc for good.

That won't happen, at least not anytime soon and not until we get rid of
[old] poorly written ports from the ports tree. Another problem is ports
using horrible or less horrible GNU extensions for C or C++, clang will
not support all of them. So we will still need gcc for some things, just
like we need USE_GCC=whatever now, because some ports don't compile with
gcc42 from base. I just hope we can get the majority of ports working
with clang and keep the number of ports that need gcc as low as possible.



As things stand today, we don't know exactly which ports have the kind
of dependency on gcc that you describe. If this project gets us closer
to that list, it will have been worthwhile. 


Once we know which ports are unavoidably dependent on gcc, we can start
exploring alternatives to them.  More projects for GSOC and others
looking for ways to contribute!  Sounds like fun!
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GPLv3-licensed ports

[Charlie Kester]

Will someone with edit privileges for the wiki please add the following to the
list of GPLv3-licensed ports (http://wiki.freebsd.org/PortsAndGPLv3)?

	math/ised 
	misc/xsw 
	sysutils/rdup


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Re: GPLv3-licensed ports

[Charlie Kester]

On Wed 19 May 2010 at 05:10:49 PDT jhell wrote:

Adding to this bundle of madness...

I believe that it would be best practice to keep ports/LEGAL up-to-date
with this list.

Those who already have ports on a machine may find it more usefull to
find them there.

Quoting ports/LEGAL:
"Some of the ports in this directory have restrictive copyrights" and
GPLv3 I believe certainly would fall under that category.


Yes, I don't what the original legal concerns were that led to the wiki
page, but I know that many FreeBSD users are wary of GPLv3.  So it makes
sense to let them know which ports are licensed that way.

After checking the COPYING files, some more of my ports for the list:

devel/gengetopt
devel/libYGP
sysutils/iextract
sysutils/gaffitter

The ports in the devel category are especially noteworthy, 
since (if I understand correctly) their license will infect anything

built with them.

Is ports/LEGAL prominent enough?  Should I also add something to the pkg-descr?
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Re: How to determine the history of a port

[Charlie Kester]

On Sun 23 May 2010 at 17:05:04 PDT Julien Laffaye wrote:

Hello,

On Sun, May 23, 2010 at 4:46 PM, Paul Hoffman  wrote:

Greetings again. A few years ago, I proposed editors/emacs-nox11 and submitted 
a patch to create it, and thus became listed in the comments at the beginning 
of the Makefile (but I am not the package maintainer, I believe). Today I got a 
report that the package does not build; I verified this. I want to help the 
user, but I have no idea how the change that broke the build was added to the 
Makefile.

How do I find the history so I can find out who added the problematic line and 
figure out what they actually meant?


You can find the CVS history via :
- cvsweb at 
http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/ports/editors/emacs-nox11/Makefile
- freshports at http://www.freshports.org/editors/emacs-nox11/


Another thing that is sometimes useful is to query the GNATS database
for closed PR's related to the port.  For example:

http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr-summary.cgi?category=&severity=&priority=&class=&state=&sort=none&text=emacs-nox11&responsible=&multitext=&originator=&closedtoo=on&release=

Interestingly, the only thing this turns up for emacs-nox11 is the
original PR that created the port -- which means any subsequent changes
were probably the result of some comprehensive updates each of which
affected several ports in one swoop.  


Or that the people submitting the PR's didn't follow the accepted
practice of including category & portname in the subject line. ;)
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Re: ports licenses

[Charlie Kester]

On Sun 30 May 2010 at 13:20:55 PDT Rene Ladan wrote:

Hi,

While adding license information to my ports (to be committed), I
stumbled upon the following:


Is this something all maintainers should be doing?  


Yesterday, while upgrading my installed ports, I noticed a message in
the output about LICENSE not being defined.  I also see that there's now
a bsd.licenses.mk and a bsd.licenses.db.mk in /usr/ports/Mk.  I don't
recall seeing those before, and don't know how long they've been there.
Anyway, it looks like we're going ahead with this infrastructure, and I
think that's a good thing.

What actions do you need from me as a maintainer?  


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Re: ports licenses

[Charlie Kester]

On Sun 30 May 2010 at 14:40:38 PDT Wesley Shields wrote:


I'd also say that if you have a regular update planned for a port that
you submit the license information with that.


Yeah, phasing it in along with other work makes sense.

/visions of 20,000+ new PR's doing nothing but adding LICENSE info

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Re: security/gorilla outdated

[Charlie Kester]

On Sat 12 Jun 2010 at 12:14:03 PDT Mark Linimon wrote:

On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 05:32:10PM +, Terry Poulin wrote:

Just noticed that they moved to github
 and the current version is 1.5.3,
rather than the 1.4.4 version in the ports tree.  I don't use the
program, but thought it best to make a note of it here; cheers.


It's unmaintained, so unless someone sends a PR updating it, it will
probably stay outdated :-)


The same is true for many other ports, as you can see in this list on
the portscout website:

http://www.portscout.org/po...@freebsd.org.html

This is a list of all unmaintained ports.  The lines highlighted in
yellow are the ones where the port is known to be out-of-date.

There might also be some others where portscout didn't detect the
availability of a newer version.

Here's another list, this time listing ports by maintainer:

http://www.portscout.org/index-total.html

When I checked this just now, there were 4872 unmaintained ports, of
which 314 (6.44%) were known to be out-of-date.

According to http://www.freebsd.org/ports/index.html there are currently
21869 ports in the ports collection.

Doing a little math, that means that 22.3% of all ports are
unmaintained, but only 1.4% are both unmaintained and out-of-date.

Just thought I'd add a little perspective to Mark's reply.  :)


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Re: LICENSE questions

[Charlie Kester]

This LICENSE stuff is beginning to look more complex than it seemed at
first.  


From this thread I gather that maintainers are going to have to do a bit
more than simply check a box.  Here, for example, we see some well-known
licenses that don't readily identify themselves as such.  How can a
maintainer be sure that he's looking at the ISC license as opposed to
some custom license that only resembles it in some details?

Is anyone working on adding some instructions to the Porter's Handbook?

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Re: Stepping down from my ports

[Charlie Kester]

On Fri 06 Aug 2010 at 11:51:05 PDT Frank Steinborn wrote:


multimedia/gpodder


I can take this one.
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portmaster always re-installs some ports

[Charlie Kester]

A while back I aborted a recursive update (bad idea, I know now) and
must have messed up something in whatever info portmaster uses to decide
whether to re-install a port.  Now, whenever I use portmaster -a, it
re-installs py26-imaging, py26-reportlab and py26-xml.  


Every time.

And it's a re-installation, not an upgrade.

I've tried manually uninstalling and then reinstalling these ports, but
portmaster still thinks they always need to re-installed .  So the
manual un-/re-install apparently doesn't fix whatever info it's looking
at.

I checked the portmaster manpage, but didn't find anything that tells me
how to fix my problem.  I also took a quick look at the portmaster
sourcecode but nothing jumped out at me.

Any ideas?  It's probably something obvious, but I'm missing it.
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Re: portmaster always re-installs some ports

[Charlie Kester]

On Mon 16 Aug 2010 at 19:48:23 PDT Charlie Kester wrote:

A while back I aborted a recursive update (bad idea, I know now) and
must have messed up something in whatever info portmaster uses to decide
whether to re-install a port.  Now, whenever I use portmaster -a, it
re-installs py26-imaging, py26-reportlab and py26-xml.

Every time.


Correction: every time any other port is upgraded.  If all ports are
reported as up to date, the three python ports are not re-installed.
But if any port is upgraded, the re-install occurs, even if the upgraded
port has no dependency relationship with any of the three python ports.



And it's a re-installation, not an upgrade.

I've tried manually uninstalling and then reinstalling these ports, but
portmaster still thinks they always need to re-installed .  So the
manual un-/re-install apparently doesn't fix whatever info it's looking
at.

I checked the portmaster manpage, but didn't find anything that tells me
how to fix my problem.  I also took a quick look at the portmaster
sourcecode but nothing jumped out at me.

Any ideas?  It's probably something obvious, but I'm missing it.

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Re: portmaster always re-installs some ports

[Charlie Kester]

On Mon 16 Aug 2010 at 20:40:44 PDT b. f. wrote:

A while back I aborted a recursive update (bad idea, I know now) and
must have messed up something in whatever info portmaster uses to decide
whether to re-install a port.  Now, whenever I use portmaster -a, it
re-installs py26-imaging, py26-reportlab and py26-xml.



From portmaster(8):


"/var/db/pkg/*/PM_UPGRADE_DONE_FLAG
  Indicates to a subsequent -a, -f, or -r run which includes the -R
  option that a port has already been rebuilt, so it can be safely
  ignored if it is up to date."

Are there any of the above files left in your PKG_DBDIR (/var/db/pkg,
by default)?  If so, delete them, and try again.  


There were many of these, but not in the directories corresponding to
the three python ports.  (But perhaps in one or more of the ports that
depend on them?)

Anyway, I deleted all of them.  It didn't fix the problem.  py-reportlab
and py-xml are still unnecessarily reinstalled.

py-imaging was recently updated, but when I ran portmaster yesterday it
complained that a previous version was still installed.  


Hmm, portmaster usually uninstalls the old version automatically.  So I
tried deinstalling it manually and got an error message about not being
able to completely remove the PIL directory from Python's site-packages.
Found a .so file in there and deleted it and the directory.  Then
installed the new version of py-imaging from the ports tree.  


Today midori needed an update, so portmaster -a found some work to do.
py-imaging is no longer re-installed!

Tried manually de-installing py-reportlab and got a similar error
message from pkg_delete about not being able to delete
site-packages/reportlab.  This looks promising.  I'll clean this stuff
out manually and then reinstall, as I did with py-imaging, and check
py-xml to see if it has a similar problem.
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Re: portmaster always re-installs some ports

[Charlie Kester]

On Tue 17 Aug 2010 at 14:22:21 PDT Charlie Kester wrote:

Tried manually de-installing py-reportlab and got a similar error
message from pkg_delete about not being able to delete
site-packages/reportlab.  This looks promising.  I'll clean this stuff
out manually and then reinstall, as I did with py-imaging, and check
py-xml to see if it has a similar problem.


Sorry to reply to my own post, but I want to be sure to document as much
as I can in this thread, in case someone else ever encounters a similar
problem.

py-xml also failed to deinstall cleanly.  So there's the common factor.

After cleaning up and reinstalling py-reportlab and py-xml, I ran portmaster
--check-depends and noticed that it updated the REQUIRED_BY for each of them.
(I'd noticed the same thing yesterday for py-imaging after I had updated to
the new version.)
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Re: portmaster always re-installs some ports

[Charlie Kester]

Problem resolved!

I should have taken Doug's advice in the first place.  Manually deleting
the files left over after "make deinstall" of py-reportlab and py-xml
did NOT fix the problem.  But Doug's procedure worked.


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Re: what next for the pkg_install rewrite

[Charlie Kester]

On Thu 02 Sep 2010 at 08:56:50 PDT Tim Kientzle wrote:


On Sep 2, 2010, at 12:34 AM, David Forsythe wrote:


Separating ports and packages is silly, because they need to coexist.
Like gcooper pointed out, ports should be using the pkg tools to build
and install packages.


I've been impressed with how MacPorts handles this.
If I understand correctly, you can specify a package you
want and the options you want with it and the system will
download a pre-built package with those options
(if one exists) or pull the source and  build the port,
all transparently.

Even better, the central repository sees all of these
requests, so can prioritize which option sets are most popular.


Would that include any options specified in make.conf?


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Re: Web feed for /usr/ports/UPDATING

[Charlie Kester]

On Thu 23 Sep 2010 at 20:39:25 PDT Alexander Kojevnikov wrote:

Hi list,

Since the only SUBJ I could find [0] is long since dead I created my own:

http://updating.versia.com/

Any feedback is welcome.


Cool idea!  Count me as another subscriber.
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Re: Dropping maintainership of my ports

[Charlie Kester]

On Mon 27 Sep 2010 at 12:32:56 PDT Tobias Roth wrote:

x11/fbpanel : Desktop panel with taskbar, pager, launchbar and more


I use this and can take maintainership.
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Re: porting: Linux to Freebsd

[Charlie Kester]

On Fri 01 Oct 2010 at 23:42:30 PDT Chetan Shukla wrote:

Hi,
Could someone please outline the steps needed in porting a general
application from Linux to FreeBSD.


As others have already pointed out, there are no shortcuts to the
righthand side of the learning curve.

For most apps, the usual "configure; make; make install" works.  It's
when it doesn't that you need to be able to draw on the kind of
experience that puts you on the righthand side of the curve.  In some
cases, you really do need to be able to debug and write some code
yourself.

Apps written in Python or Perl tend to port fairly easily, because the
folks who have ported the languages and their main libraries have
already done most of the hard work.  


C and C++ apps, on the other hand, are more likely to surface
differences in the Linux and FreeBSD API's.  If you're porting one of
those, you need to be willing and able to dig in and research those
APIs. 


For a good grounding in the UNIX API's, I'd recommend the Stevens/Rago
book "Advanced Programming in the UNIX Environment".  

The Avoiding Linuxisms article also has a lot of useful information.  


The Porter's Handbook contains most of what you'll need to know once
you've got the app built and running OK and you want to add it to the
portstree.  (I say "most" because you'll still need to have some
profiency with BSD makefiles, and the Handbook doesn't teach you that.)
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Re: xf86-video-intel29 - does it work with Ironlake graphics now?

[Charlie Kester]

On Sat 16 Oct 2010 at 12:11:41 PDT Warren Block wrote:

On Sat, 16 Oct 2010, Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote:


So, does the xf86-video-intel29 port work with Ironlake graphics now?


I don't think so (although I don't have newer Intel video to test), 
but there's hope (from yesterday):


http://docs.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=151120+0+current/freebsd-x11


Interesting, thanks!

BTW, does anyone know what's going on with miwi?  He had one of my port
PR's for a while and eventually timed out on that one too.  I hope he's
just busy/distracted and isn't ill or anything like that...  He's been
such a workhorse for the project, so his absence is significant.


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Re: Call for potential ports maintainers

[Charlie Kester]

* Thomas Abthorpe  [2009-02-12 12:32:13 -0500]:



At any given time, approximately 20 - 25% of all ports are unmaintained. Not 
all unmaintained ports need updating, but some do. That is where you folks 
come in. 

There are a bunch of you out there who are subscribers to this list (and other 
FreeBSD related lists too, I am sure), you have FreeBSD installed and likely 
have quite an array of ports installed on this system of yours. You are 
subscribed as a means of keeping up with the world of FreeBSD.


But you have been holding back, thinking "I really would like to do something 
to contribute to the success of FreeBSD, but I am not sure what."


The gauntlet has been thrown down, who among you is prepared to pick it
up?


I plead guilty and will look through the list of unmaintained ports to
see if there are any where my skills and interests are a good fit.


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Re: Call for potential ports maintainers

[Charlie Kester]

* Thomas Abthorpe  [2009-02-12 14:20:31 -0500]:


-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On February 12, 2009 01:52:43 pm Charlie Kester wrote:

I plead guilty and will look through the list of unmaintained ports to
see if there are any where my skills and interests are a good fit.


That is great, thanks Charlie!


Of the unmaintained ports on the list, misc/vifm is the one I use the
most and am probably most qualified to maintain.  I'll submit a pr to
take responsibility for maintaining it.

The current port of vifm is up to date, and there are no active problem
reports.  So I don't know how much of a contribution taking it will be.
But it's probably a good place for me to learn the ropes.

I'll keep looking for good fits where there are active problem reports
that need to be addressed.
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Re: Call for potential ports maintainers

[Charlie Kester]

* Paul Schmehl  [2009-02-12 13:26:46 -0600]:

--On Thursday, February 12, 2009 11:32:13 -0600 Thomas Abthorpe  
 wrote:




The gauntlet has been thrown down, who among you is prepared to pick it up?



How about providing a list of the ports that need maintainers?  I
already have 15.  I might take some more, but not until I know what
they are.


Yes, is there already a list somewhere of unmaintained ports with active
problem reports?  That would help steer us to the work that needs doing.

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why does portsmon think my port is no longer valid?

[Charlie Kester]

http://portsmon.freebsd.org/portoverview.py?category=sysutils&portname=ncdu

The portsmon page for one of the ports I maintain says it is no longer a valid 
port.

"sysutils/ncdu is no longer a valid port: (deleted but missing from 
/usr/ports/MOVED)"


I recently submitted an update for ncdu 1.5, and it is now in the ports
tree and installs without any problem.  Does the portsmon statement
simply mean that it hasn't been packaged yet, or is there some other
issue that needs to be addressed?
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avoiding build dependency on docbook, etc. in new port

[Charlie Kester]

I'm porting some software that has a build dependency on docbook2man in
order to generate its manpages from .docbook files.

Testing the port in tinderbox takes a long time, most of it because of
the need to build the docbook infrastructure.  It seems a shame to use
all that CPU time and install all those packages just to get ready to
convert some manpages. 


What's the preferred approach in cases like this?  Should I keep the
build dependency on docbook2man et al, or should I put pregenerated
copies of the manpages in the files directory of the port?
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Re: avoiding build dependency on docbook, etc. in new port

[Charlie Kester]

On Wed 17 Jun 2009 at 13:24:32 PDT Greg Larkin wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Charlie Kester wrote:

I'm porting some software that has a build dependency on docbook2man in
order to generate its manpages from .docbook files.

Testing the port in tinderbox takes a long time, most of it because of
the need to build the docbook infrastructure.  It seems a shame to use
all that CPU time and install all those packages just to get ready to
convert some manpages.
What's the preferred approach in cases like this?  Should I keep the
build dependency on docbook2man et al, or should I put pregenerated
copies of the manpages in the files directory of the port?


Hi Charlie,

I feel your pain! I don't think there's any problem pre-generating the
man page and keeping it in the port's files/ directory.


Actually, this is a suite of tools and there are eleven manpages.



On the other hand, I recently went through this experience and went a
different route.  YMMV!

I took over maintainership for security/logcheck a while back, and it
used docbook2man to create its one (!) man page.  After a while, I got
some requests to strip out that dependency.  A user was kind enough to
point me to docbook2X: http://docbook2x.sourceforge.net/

This is a much lighter-weight tool for converting docbook to manual
pages, among other functions.  I eventually added it to the ports tree
and updated the logcheck port to use it.


Now I'm confused.  When I used pkg_info to find out what package had
installed docbook2man on my system, it said it was part of
docbook2X-0.8.8_2.  It was after I added textproc/docbook2X as a build
dependency that I started seeing a bunch of docbook stuff getting
installed in my tinderbox.  



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Re: [RFC] New category proposal, i18n

[Charlie Kester]

On Tue 23 Jun 2009 at 12:05:55 PDT Thomas Abthorpe wrote:


Localization is a subset Internationalization, so the new category
becomes a catch all for both entities.


If i18n is too cryptic or too alphanumeric, and internationalization is
too long, why not go with "nls"?
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Re: [RFC] New category proposal, i18n

[Charlie Kester]

On Wed 24 Jun 2009 at 06:56:10 PDT Thomas Abthorpe wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On June 23, 2009 04:36:08 pm Charlie Kester wrote:

On Tue 23 Jun 2009 at 12:05:55 PDT Thomas Abthorpe wrote:
>Localization is a subset Internationalization, so the new category
>becomes a catch all for both entities.

If i18n is too cryptic or too alphanumeric, and internationalization is
too long, why not go with "nls"?


I personally think that nls is equally as cryptic as i18n or l10n.


But it has the virtue of being purely alphabetic. and thus meets one of
the objections that have been raised.

I don't put much weight on the "cryptic" argument myself.  I expect that
anyone who is doing internationalization work is familiar with all of
these  terms -- and if not, they need to *make* themselves familiar with
them.
 
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Re: Possibly unbuildable ports reminder

[Charlie Kester]

On Tue 14 Jul 2009 at 03:00:04 PDT Bill Fenner wrote:

Dear porters,

 This is just a reminder to please periodically check the list of
unbuildable ports at http://pointyhat.freebsd.org/errorlogs/ .
A list by MAINTAINER is

http://people.freebsd.org/~fenner/errorlogs/

so you can easily check the status of ports that you maintain.  In
addition, the list of ports with no MAINTAINER with build problems is


Is the portstree updated before running these build tests?

My sysutils/rdup port is shown as failing a build test on 7 July, and
that it's using the port's Makefile v 1.1, dated 19 June.  But I already
submitted a fix for the reported error , and it was committed on 4 July
as Makefile v 1.2.

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Re: Possibly unbuildable ports reminder

[Charlie Kester]

On Tue 14 Jul 2009 at 15:15:25 PDT Glen Barber wrote:


I swear I asked about this a few weeks ago...

http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-ports/2009-June/03.html

The problems I reported then are still present in the latest build
error report.


I guess that's why the subject of this thread is *possibly* unbuildable
ports.

It's kinda frustrating, however, when what I really want is confirmation
that my fix worked.
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Re: status of FreeBSD ports you maintain as of 20090705

[Charlie Kester]

On Wed 15 Jul 2009 at 14:08:18 PDT Martin Tournoij wrote:

On Sun, 5 Jul 2009 20:47:19 -0500, lini...@freebsd.org wrote:

I have noticed some maintainer-timeouts on ports that you maintain.
Please let me know if you are still interested in these ports;

otherwise,

I would like to reassign them.  Thanks.

mcl

audio/mpdscribble   carpetsmo...@rwxrwxrwx.net  1
x11-wm/pekwmcarpetsmo...@rwxrwxrwx.net  2


Hi there,

I would like to maintain these ports, but unfortunately I haven't had the
time
in the last few months. And not having a X11-enabled FreeBSD machine
installed
doesn't help either...

I thought about it during the last week, and will resign the
maintainership of
all my ports in the coming weeks, (For a few ports I have a few changes/
updates in the pipeline I would like to finish).

So it's Ok to reassign these ports.


Judging by your followups, Martin, there seems to be some confusion
about which ports you're relinquishing at this time.

Was your OK meant to apply only to the mpdscribble and pekwm ports?  And
your mention of your other ports was only a heads-up that you intend to
be resigning maintainership in the near future, after submitting some
final changes?

Just trying to clarify the situation.  It's good to see that there are
volunteers ready to take over once you're done, but nobody wants to rush
you out the door.  ;-)


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Re: status of FreeBSD ports you maintain as of 20090705

[Charlie Kester]

On Tue 04 Aug 2009 at 09:21:07 PDT Diego Depaoli wrote:

2009/8/4 Doug Barton :

Diego Depaoli wrote:

There are too many ports and too few people who care them.
IMHO the options are:
- decrease the number of ports

We trim dead/useless ports all the time.

- increase the number of  volunteers/committers/testers...

This is the only valid answer for FreeBSD.

How? I think your following comment (even smiled) isn't the right
starting point.


- switch to a multi-level solution (e.g. Archlinux).

In DiegoBSD you should feel free to use any solution you think is
useful. :)

Please look at
http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=ports/134443
Ok, I agree,  is an useless port, but 3 months without further notices
are enough to demotivate any volunteer.


I've been a maintainer since the beginning of this year, and I've yet to
have any of my updates go unnoticed for that long.  I suspect that your
PR is the exception rather than the rule.

But it does suggest the need for more guidance on how maintainers can
work effectively with the committers.  What can we do to help streamline
the process? What sort of things create extra, unnecessary work for
committers? 


If a PR doesn't get picked up within a week, it doesn't seem to be
showing up on the committers' scans when they're looking for something
to do.  Perhaps they should fix their scans, but perhaps the maintainer
should post a message here, asking for someone to look at the PR?  I've
seen messages like that in the past, and the response has always been
that one of the committers volunteers to take care of it.

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Re: audio/sox bump to 14.3.0 request

[Charlie Kester]

On Thu 10 Sep 2009 at 19:01:23 PDT Glen Barber wrote:
On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:01:00 -0400, Peter Beckman 
 wrote:
I'll work on learning how to build the package so I can submit a 
diff rather than a request.


The Porter's Handbook is a good place to start:

http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/books/porters-handbook/

The Handbook recommends the ports-mgmt/porttools port.  I personally
suggest the ports-mgmt/genplist port as well.


I would also recommend installing the ports-mgmt/tinderbox port as well.
Some of my first few patches were bounced back by the committers because
of build problems that were masked by software that was installed on my
machine but not called out as a dependency in the port Makefile.  I
learned to always test the port in a tinderbox jail before submitting a
PR with the patch.  There should not be any error logs generated, but
you should also check the build logs to verify that everything your port
installs gets deinstalled in the deinstall phase.

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Re: glib/webkit update?

[Charlie Kester]

On Wed 04 Nov 2009 at 15:14:24 PST Zane C.B. wrote:

On Wed, 07 Oct 2009 17:10:47 -0500
"Jeremy Messenger"  wrote:


On Wed, 07 Oct 2009 10:30:59 -0500, Dmitry Marakasov
 wrote:

> Hi!
>
> I need a new version of webkit, because the one that is currently
> in the ports tree doesn't work with Yahoo maps, and I need that
> for astro/josm. I've tried to update webkit port locally to
> r49078, but it requires newer glib:
>
> Requested 'glib-2.0 >= 2.21.3' but version of GLib is 2.20.5
>
> Updating glib may require more effort and may break some of my
> installed apps, so I ask here - is there official update planned
> anytime soon, and/or is there some work in progress available to
> test?

GNOME 2.28 was released during our ports tree freeze time, so we
weren't able to put into ports tree. If you can't wait, grab those
in MarcusCom CVS[1].

[1] http://www.marcuscom.com:8080/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/


Actually if you don't mind me observing, this is a fairly bad reason
for it being out of date since atleast the beginnig of July.

I've been waiting for this to be bumped for a while so
www/p5-Gtk2-Webkit can be updated.


There are many many ports which depend on the Gnome libraries, so
updating those libraries is probably a paradigm example of the kind of
"sweeping change" described in the rules for the current partial thaw:

http://blog.droso.org/2009/09/30/partial-ports-thaw-2/



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