Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!
At 10:59 AM -0500 2/10/05, Louis LeBlanc wrote: > > Logos need to be as neutral as possible, since they will be > very widely used and very heavily imprinted in customers' > minds. They must not conjure up thoughts of anything except > the brand they represent. Neutrality is purely objective in this case (and many others). Uninformed neutrality can be highly inflammatory. Beastie is only considered inflammatory to those uninformed fundamentalists who haven't been satisfied beating down every other freedom in this country and need someone or something else to pick on. Next they'll be burning books and witches again. It is interesting that I constantly hear "FreeBSD MUST have the Beastie as the only logo for FreeBSD. We MUST NOT even consider any other logo -- because if we consider ANY other logo, we will be close-minded!". So, there is one-and-only-one valid logo for FreeBSD, and that is because FreeBSD is so very open-minded? Note that the contest is just to see what logos people can come up with. It's not like we are demanding that the logo must have angels in it, or a picture of some other religious figure. Nothing more than "Let's see what ideas people can come up with". -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Systems Programmer or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy, NY; USA ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
RE: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!
At 12:50 AM -0800 2/10/05, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: It is clear from reading both lists that much of the anger is based upon false assumptions, misinformation and incomplete editing of the leaked document. Sorry, but that is false. Much of the anger is based on Robert Watson (and whatever other core members are arguing with him over this) not IMMEDIATELY becoming completely forthright with the FreeBSD community as soon as the leak occurred. Geez. Get real. One committer had *just* put up the site, and then other committers were given a chance to look it over and see if it all made sense. We wanted to given all committers a chance to cross-check it, and make sure we didn't forget to say anything important. What is up there right now is nothing more than a first draft. As far as I know, Robert responded on the same day that I found out that this rough-draft site had been mentioned in public. It's not like we've had six months of denials, with press-reporters hounding Robert every night on the evening news. Perhaps it was announced on slashdot a few days earlier, but frankly, I (for one) never read slashdot. That is not any conspiracy, it is simply that I don't have the time. I (for one) did not know the contest's web site was leaked until the article showed up at the bsdnews.com site. BSDnews. I work on BSD operating systems, so that's the web site that I read. I am deeply concerned with what I see going on here. Since when has the FreeBSD Project had "secret" information of a sales and marketing nature? This is a brand new one to me. What a crazy thing to say. The whole purpose of this web site was to announce a PUBLIC CONTEST for ANYONE to submit their ideas for a possible new logo. Once we DID announce it, the public would have had 1-3 months to hash out whatever they wanted to hash out. (One of the reasons we had not already announced this web site is that we were still deciding how long that period should be. It started as one month, but I think now we're thinking maybe two or two-and-a-half months). I can condone secrets in the area of leaglities - such as back in the bad old days when UCB was sued by USL, there were many secrets, a few that I and some others were able to ferret out but still many buried, and still some people under gag orders. Man, you must see a lot of black helicopters every day you walk to work. It is not a "deep dark secret" to proof-read a web site before ANNOUNCING TO EVERYONE that they might WIN MONEY(!!) by reading that web site. Geez. I proof-read this message before I post it, and I'm only replying to comments from one moron with black helicopters flying out of his ass. How much more time should be spent proof- reading a public site which we intend to point everyone at? Yes I understand that some commercial consultants and such have had problems due to the logo being a devil image. But if Robert Watson had wanted to respond to this then he should have brought it up for discussion with the userbase immediately, not sneaked around talking to his cronies at Apple Computer, trying to figure out how to push this off onto the userbase in a way that people wouldn't object to doing so. It is apparent that you are not interested in any facts, but Robert was not one of the main promoters of this idea. In fact, I don't remember him saying much of anything about it at the time we (FreeBSD committers) were debating it. This logo competition is childish - 99% of the FreeBSD community members are not graphic artists and couldn't draw their way out of a paper bag - such a competition does not have as it's goal that of obtaining an image, it's only goal is assuaging pissed off people by pretending that they have a hand in the decision. More black helicopters. Geez. I expect all the submissions will be public, and then we (the committers) will pick the one we like the best. It is unquestionably true that I (for one) have no artistic talent. However, that does not mean that I can not possibly know anyone who makes a full-time living as a well-paid graphic artist. Nope. That simply must not be possible, even though RPI offers a degree in "Electronic Arts". And therefore it absolutely *must* be true that this contest will come up with a hand-drawn stick-figure logo. And it *must* be true that we've already picked that pathetic logo, and we're just announcing this contest as a cover story. Yep. It must be true. Ted says so. What a stupid position to take. [aside: a few years ago I paid one of my friends to draw up an idea I had for a logo, using malamutes, but we never did come up with something that we were really happy with. So nothing became of that. But he has drawn up other very nice things for me. So just because I cannot draw, does not mean I cannot find anyone to draw for me...] You might remember that the bsdnews.com site used to have a very nicely drawn cartoon strip. Extremely well drawn, IMO. It is a pity that you apparently don't get out enough to m
RE: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!
At 12:50 AM -0800 2/10/05, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
No, sorry. The core team apparently feels that the way to do things
now is to made decisions of this nature first, then have discussion
later, rather than the reverse which previously has been the case.
This contest came out because the developers who actually work on
freebsd had a very energetic debate on the topic. Core stepped in
before we started throwing pies at each other, and came up with
this idea: *Keep* Beastie as the official mascot, but then have a
> PUBLIC CONTEST <
open to > EVERYONE <
to see if we might also come up with some alternate logo.
However, as the core team as apparently represented by R Watson
has stated they want to consider this internally first, then
just tell the userbase what they are going to do later on, I
say screw you, and I'll argue and fight against this topic for
years.
How silly. "Internally" means "among all the committers who spend
their time, effort, and money making commits to the FreeBSD project".
It does not mean "Robert Watson talked to his navel, and they agreed
on this course of action".
The actual developers. The people you pretend to respect, unless
anyone one of them has a single idea which might disagree with you.
While you seem determined to pretend that Robert Watson is somehow
the sole person interested in this, let me note I am one of the
FreeBSD committers who would like to see some new ideas for a logo.
Now if nothing particularly special comes from this contest, then
fine, at least we *tried*. But apparently you think we're not even
supposed to try.
Why would I like some other logo? Because in addition to committing
the occasional patch to FreeBSD (totalling some 500+ commits), I do
public presentations to groups of non-FreeBSD'ers about FreeBSD. I
am trying to promote FreeBSD -- THE OPERATING SYSTEM -- and I am
tired of spending my time explaining some cartoon character. I am
in this project because of the quality of the operating system, and
NOT because I have some deranged need to defend some "in joke" about
daemons.
As I said on the committers mailing list when we were debating this
topic: The beastie icon does *not* separate "close-minded" people
from "open-minded" people. It does *not* separate the "religious"
people from "non-religious" people. It does not even separate
"Christian" people from "non-Christian" people. The only thing
that logo does is separate "People who already know Unix" from
"People who have never heard of a daemon process". It is nothing
more than an "in joke", where we can feel smug about how "smart"
we are when some poor goober is stupid enough to ask "So why do
you use some cute-looking demon for your icon?".
When I have done public presentations for FreeBSD, I have never had
anyone reject FreeBSD because of the deamon. Not once. And if I
am talking to a group of Unix-people, I don't even have to explain
the beastie icon.
On the other hand, I do sometimes get people who have no experience
with Unix. And those people will look at me like I am still some
kid trying to defend the Major Matt Mason as being an "action figure"
instead of a doll. Their attitude is "Okay -- so unix has these
things called a 'daemon process' -- but I still don't get why is it
so important that your icon must be this cartoon". They would have
the exact same attitude if we happened to call those processes 'a buzz
process', and then made our icon be Buzz Lightyear. The "religious
connotation" is not relevant, because most the people I talk to are
simply not all that religious. And yet they still look at me like
I am nuts when I am explaining the logo, and I see no reason I should
continue to waste my time giving people a lesson in the history of
the word 'daemon'. I am a programmer, not a teacher of linguistics
or word-history.
--
Garance Alistair Drosehn = [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Senior Systems Programmer or [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy, NY; USA
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Re: changing logo
At 3:36 PM -0600 2/10/05, Tom Mecke wrote: Many people may think twice about donating money to the project if you are worrying about trivial complaints about a cute little "daemon" logo instead of directing energy all to the project! Oooo. I work on FreeBSD for free. I get zero money from it. All I am saying is I would like to see what other logos someone might come up with -- if we gave them a chance. Oh, and how much $$$ have you donated to FreeBSD? Me? Not only have I worked for free, but I have donated more than $1,000 of my own money to FreeBSD over the years. And actually, if you count work that I paid someone else to do for FreeBSD (but which never quite worked out), I have spent over $10,000 in just the past two years for FreeBSD. So, imagine how little I care about whatever threat you fantasize you are making. I am paid to work on Linux (and MacOS 10, to some extent). I would be just as happy and much much better off financially if I left FreeBSD alone, and concentrated on my full-time job. I am paid to work on Linux. I am not paid to work on FreeBSD. That summarizes just how well the Beastie icon, by itself, draws vast sums of money to the FreeBSD project. If you are really so utterly deranged that you REFUSE to donate money to a HIGH QUALITY OPEN-SOURCE OPERATING SYSTEM, *unless* it has a cute-daemon for it's one-and-only logo, then please go away. It is just as stupid and close-minded to DEMAND that we never consider any other logos. If you're that attached to a cartoon icon of our Mascot, then mail your money to someone who draws cute daemon figures, and don't waste your time claiming that you care about the actual operating system. Also note that the Beastie isn't actually going away. He's still going to be considered the official mascot of the project. My guess is that whatever the logo is, there won't be any cute dolls made of it, so Beastie will always have a place in the project. It would just be nice to have some other official logo, one which could be more easily used in some settings. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Systems Programmer or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy, NY; USA ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another logo such asNetBSD!!!
At 5:27 PM -0500 2/10/05, Louis LeBlanc wrote: On 02/10/05 03:31 PM, Jacob S sat at the `puter and typed: And a very poor example, IMHO. Can you give any proof that it's a valid example to say that Christians object to the use of the acronym "daemon" in Unix-like operating systems? I have not been able to find any proof on this list, the 19 Linux e-mail lists I am on, or the 2 or 3 computer/programming forums I occasionally visit. It comes up on this very list all the time. Always reciting the christian objection to "devils" and whatnot. Google is your friend. No. The people I meet in real life are my friends. Google is a search engine, and capable of finding some web page somewhere for any and every extremist position. You can also find web pages by people who are upset by every company logo which happens to have an eye somewhere in it. That doesn't mean "my friends" have the same objections. I am saying that among the people I actually meet in real life (whether friends or not), not one person has objected to the daemon image based on their religious convictions. Not one. But quite a few have thought that the icon seemed a little silly. It is only among the experienced Unix users who think it's a great, amusing icon. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Systems Programmer or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy, NY; USA ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Logo Contest
At 8:13 PM -0500 2/10/05, Mike Hauber wrote: On Thursday 10 February 2005 05:49 pm, Technical Director wrote: On Thu, 10 Feb 2005, Anthony Atkielski wrote: > No. While Beastie is cute and well executed, it's not > professional graphic art. Here here... Rob. I have two questions. These are not accusations, but questions and I don't want accusations in response. At first I was going to skip over these questions, since they have been touched on in some other replies I have written. But I can't help but thinking that you're going to say "SEE! I TOLD YOU THEY WOULDN'T GIVE ME AN HONEST ANSWER! THEY MUST BE HIDING SOMETHING!". 1. Why was this so hush-hush (ie, Why was it "leakable" (ie, why the secrecy, if FreeBSD is supposed to be a project where everyone can take part in?))) As noted in other messages, this isn't as hush-hush as a few people are making it sound. We're talking about a public web site. The "first draft" of that web site was put up, and then all the committers were asked to look at it. It is only "hush-hush" in the sense that we wanted committers to proof-read it and agree on it before opening to the public. 2. Does Apple have, or has Apple had anything to do with this decision (and if so, then who, how and why (or is the answer to that supposed to be "hush-hush" too))? I am one of the committers who are interested in this logo contest, just to see what logos people can come up with. I had a great idea for a logo a few years ago, but I never could get a picture that looked as good as the idea seemed to me. That idea never went anywhere. Apple, as a company, has had no input to this. Apple really does not care enough about Unix to even care *what* the FreeBSD project does for a logo. Apple has their own operating systems, their own logos, and nothing we do is going to effect them. Apple hasn't contacted me. They haven't offered me anything. They also haven't threatened me in any way. Chances are mighty good they don't even know that I exist. However, I am one of the developers who thinks that this logo contest is a good idea. If Apple is supposed to be bribing me for my own opinion, then I sure wish they'd contact me so I could tell them where to mail the checks to. But they are strangely silent... If someone out there is honest and forthcoming, we'd all like to know the answers to this... How many statements do COMMITTERS have to make before you stop implying that we are "dishonest"? Dishonest in what way? I know I know: you're not making any accusations. You're simply asking if we have stopped beating our wife yet. I'm glad you're not making any accusations. It would be so much less friendly if you were making accusations. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Systems Programmer or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy, NY; USA ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!
At 10:09 PM -0800 2/10/05, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: > While you seem determined to pretend that Robert Watson is > somehow the sole person interested in this, let me note I am > one of the FreeBSD committers who would like to see some new > ideas for a logo. Good. At least you have my respect now for growing some balls and admitting it publically. I'm glad you are quick to show just how irrationally inflammatory you are when it comes to this issue. Would the rest of the anti-beastie committers please come out of the bushes now? PHK has commented in one of these threads. DES has also commented. One other committer commented (who I can't remember at the moment). And you love to scream about the evil Robert Watson (*), and how this is his personal double-secret plot, so I assume he must have commented. And frankly, most FreeBSD commiters do not read the -advocacy or -questions mailing lists (I never read advocacy, for instance). So maybe only three or four committers have explicitly expressed support for a LOGO CONTEST. How many committers have responded here saying just how much they hate the idea of even running the contest? And let me say once again, this is FOR a LOGO contest -- which is not the same as being "Anti-beastie". All of us have said that the Beastie will remain as a mascot. Kirk and GNN are not going to recall their recent FreeBSD book simply to change the nicely- drawn Beastie on that cover to some simple FreeBSD logo. We keep saying the Beastie remains as a mascot, and you keep talking out of your ass, with its over-abundance of flying black helicopters (* - aside: it's funny how one of the other lists is praising Robert for his high-quality and informative posts, and all the hard work he has done on FreeBSD in the past few months. Those people are talking about making an archive about every one of his posts for future reference, because he constantly contributes so much useful information to end-users. But let someone suggest that he MIGHT be in favor of this PUBLIC CONTEST for a FreeBSD logo, and immediately some ungrateful bastard is treating Robert like he is evil incarnate. It is amazing just how pathetic your memory is when it comes to people who contribute so much to this project -- and you do that in defense of a cartoon image. It's a pity you have more respect for the cartoon than for the developers who work on the source code) -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Systems Programmer or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy, NY; USA ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
RE: Please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD!!!
At 2:06 AM -0800 2/12/05, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: For the last time, it is not the contest that I and others are objecting to. I am glad to hear that this message was the last time you mention it. Thanks. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Systems Programmer or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy, NY; USA ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: alternative method for make / install world --- ?
At 4:14 AM -0400 6/24/04, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hello all, I have recently been mulling over an article which proposes an abridged set of steps for updating the system. --- http://www.bsdnews.org/03/bsd_update.php alias rebuild 'cd /usr/src && make update && make world && make kernel && mergemaster' --- in a nutshell, the author proposes the following steps: 1) rebuild 2) answer the mergemaster prompts 3) reboot 4) all done We have a list of steps which we believe to be reliable. We have absolutely no reason to add in steps "just to annoy you". We are just as eager to have a quick system rebuild as anyone else would be. You can often get away with skipping some of those steps, but if you DO skip them, then YOU are responsible when something does go wrong. And sooner or later, it will go wrong. You can bet on it. You should expect it. By that I mean, *when* something does go wrong, then you should immediately suspect that the problem is due to your procedure. You should not "forget" that you have refused to follow the recommended procedure, and you should not come yelling at anyone else because "they broke your system". In the case of this author, he is tracking the 4.x-stable branch. At this point in time, that branch sees very very little activity, and because of that his strategy has probably worked quite well for him. However, it will not work as well on the -current branch. And very soon we will be moving to 5.3-stable as "the stable branch", and after we do then his strategy is much more likely to run into serious problems. And when it does, it will be you with the broken system, and it may be that you will be the only one who will be able to fix whatever was broken. Think if it this way. We have a list of steps that we document. If you want to use some alternate list, then what makes you think we will test *our* changes with *your* alternate strategy? We will not. Sooner or later, something will break. On the one hand we will feel bad for you, but on the other hand we can not help you if you refuse to follow the steps that we have found to be the most reliable. Yes, it is tempting to take shortcuts. But sooner or later you will be burned by taking them. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Systems Programmer or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy, NY; USA ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: newsyslog.conf question
At 7:38 AM -0700 9/28/04, Ronnie Clark wrote: Hello all, Having read the man page for this file's configuration, I notice there is not an option to digitally sign the logs on rotation using PGP/GPG. Is there a workaround? or are there plans to add this functionality to future versions, like 5.3 -STABLE? That is not on my list of things to add to newsyslog, but I could certainly put something for this on the list... If I do it, it will show up in 5.3-stable, and possibly even in 4.x-stable (although that is less likely once we have 5.3-stable). What I might add is some generic way to specify a program to run after a log file has been rotated, where newsyslog will specify the name of the (already rotated) log file when it runs the program. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Systems Programmer or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy, NY; USA ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: /boot like linux!
At 6:24 AM +0100 3/4/05, Anthony Atkielski wrote: Jesse Guardiani writes: > Doesn't the boot partition have to NOT have soft updates > though? That's your choice. By default, it won't, since data loss is more likely with soft updates (anything that doesn't immediately write everything physically to disk creates a risk of data loss). But you can force it if you wish. Softupdates is generally turned off for '/', because '/' is expected to be a relatively small partition. Earlier versions of softupdates would behave badly if a partition was low on free disk space, and if you removed a lot of files immediately followed by creating about the same amount of files. This is exactly what happens when you do a 'make installkernel', and that used to run into problems if '/' was tight on space. That is not as much of a problem now, but it is still reasonable to have softupdates be off *if* '/' is a small partition which doesn't get updated very much. I have run with softupdates on for '/' on all my systems, for a few years now. It has not caused me any problems that I know of, but then the way I define my partitions is probably a lot different than what most people do. If we thought that softupdates made it *significantly* more likely that users would *lose* data, then we would not turn it on for any partitions! > I want / + /boot. It's that simple. Then create them that way. It happens that this will run into some problems, as has been described in other messages in this thread. For what it's worth, I (personally) like the idea of having a separate /boot partition, but I have many other projects that are more important to me (personally), so I haven't spent any time looking into this project yet. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Systems Programmer or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy, NY; USA ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: time_t definition
On 1/16/13 1:14 PM, Thomas D. Dean wrote:
On 01/16/13 03:00, Patrick Lamaiziere wrote:
Looks like gcc47 checks the printf format string (-Wformat)
Disable this check or convert your time_t.
Yes, I know gcc47 checks the format string.
But, time_t is of type int32, from a typedef statement.
#include
typedef int zzz;
typedef zzz yyy;
typedef yyy xxx;
int main() {
xxx idx;
for (idx=0; idx<10; idx++) printf("%d\n",idx);
return 0;
}
does not produce the error (I did this on the 'other' system)
> gcc --version
gcc (Ubuntu/Linaro 4.6.3-1ubuntu5) 4.6.3
...
> gcc -O2 -pipe -I../../include -std=gnu99 -fstack-protector
-Wsystem-headers -Werror -Wall -Wno-format-y2k -Wno-uninitialized
-Wno-pointer-sign xxx.c -o xxx
I did not think to do this on the FreeBSD system I was using yesterday.
What I don't understand is where gcc is losing track of this definition.
In 9.0, or maybe earlier, the definition of time_t was changed with a
view toward 64-bit systems. I remember a statement to the effect of "in
2038, 32-bit time will overflow. It is unlikely that many 32-biot
systems will be around then. So, making the change to 64-bit now will
prevent having to do it in the future".
So, now, it seems that any calculation involving time_t requires a cast
I'm the freebsd developer who changed time_t *ON SPARC64* to be a
64-bit value. We did not change it on the i386 platform. We did
go with a 64-bit value for the AMD64 platform, so your example would
work on amd64 but not on i386.
Also, depending on the platform and the compiler you're using,
"long int" is not the same as "int". In your example, time_t
is explicitly set to a 32-bit integer, but you'll find that
"long int" on your platform is a 64-bit integer. On some other
platforms it may be true that "long int" is a 32-bit integer,
but it is not on the platform you are on.
When it comes to C data types, a 32-bit integer is not the same
as a 64-bit integer. This is especially important when passing
parameters when calling other routines. The format in the
printf statement uses '%ld', which matches "long int".
The warning from the compiler is correct. It has not lost track
of anything. It is looking exactly at what your platform uses,
and warning you that the printf in question will not work the way
that you almost certainly want it to work.
Yes, this means that the only reliable way to printf a time_t is
to use a cast. That has been true for at least a decade. It may
be true that you happened to avoid this issue before, but the only
*RELIABLE* platform-independent way to print time_t's is via a cast.
--
Garance Alistair Drosehn= g...@gilead.netel.rpi.edu
Senior Systems Programmer or g...@freebsd.org
Rensselaer Polytechnic Instituteor dro...@rpi.edu
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Re: Is this bunk.
At 1:25 AM +0100 8/23/10, Garry wrote: Mac OS X is basically BSD that's been appleised (serious vendor lock-in), they do give a little back to BSDs, but have made sure that BSDs can't get much off of them, but they can get a lot out of BSD. Mac OS is the Mach kernel, plus a userland and unix libraries which are very much BSD-ish. They pulled in from all three major BSD projects (NetBSD, OpenBSD, FreeBSD). On top of that they have their GUI layer, which is Quartz instead of X11, and the development environment which is based on InterfaceBuilder (from NeXTSTEP days) and Objective-C. The Objective-C api's are called "Cocoa". Which is to say, if you're counting lines-of-code than most of MacOS is *not* from any BSD. The parts which did come from the BSD's are available as source from Apple (in the project called Darwin). If we don't "get much out of Apple", it's because we aren't looking through their source code, and that would not be the fault of Apple. They make sure we can't get much out of their work at the Mach kernel, Quartz, and Cocoa layers, but then they can't get anything out of us for those layers either. So, I don't see what the complaint is. They've also contributed to a number of other open-source projects, projects which have been BSD or GNU licensed. Also, Windows uses (or used to use) a BSD stack for networking for instance. This is true. (or at least it definitely used to be true, I have no idea if Vista and Windows7 are still using the BSD networking stack). So you're saying that you would prefer that Microsoft wrote their own networking stack, which everyone else in the world would be *required* to deal with, instead of using a network stack which was already known and tested? Having seen how BSD license software has been used, to create highly tied in, almost crippled proprietary software, I do not feel that I can support software developed under such licenses. That is your choice, of course. And, well, I don't care. All I care is how I feel based on my work in the BSD's. I'm happy with how my work has been used. I'm happy to keep contributing, either with code or with donations to help others to produce quality BSD-licensed open-source code. BSD-licensing is probably not appropriate for all projects, but it works well for the kinds of projects that I tend to work on. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = dros...@rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or g...@freebsd.org Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy, NY; USA ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: how to recursively symlink every file in a dir
At 1:24 PM -0400 9/9/10, Aryeh Friedman wrote: I want to make it so every file is a seperate symlink in dir2 if and only if it is a regular file (not a dir) in dir1... the reason is if the file is unchanged then use symlink but I can rm the symlink and replace it with a non-symlink: To show the problem I am attempting to solve: foo: (owned by fred) arf: ack in barney's account: ln -s ~foo/ foo rm foo/arf/ack# Permissioin denied ... it should nuke the symlink and let me then do something like "touch foo/arf/ack Note there are over 500 files upto 5 dirs deep in the dir I want to symlink from the final application is our version control system (devel/aegis) keeps seperate repos for different source code projects (for obvious reasons) and we want to make it so in normal operation we can symlink tne source tree from one project into an other but if we want to make a local modificiation to the "foreign" source tree all we have do is (sorry for the aegis commands but I think the idea is clear): I believe early X11-distributions had a script called "lndir" would pretty much do exactly what you want here. And then there was a companion command called "breakln" which would remove the symlink and make a copy of the original file to replace it. I don't know if X11 still has these commands (I haven't installed X11 in at least 10 years), but I have my own versions of them. Let me know if you can't find them, and I'll send you copies of my scripts. (actually, I'm not 100% sure I got these from X11. But I got them from somewhere in the mid-1990's) -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = dros...@rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or g...@freebsd.org Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy, NY; USA ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: how to recursively symlink every file in a dir
At 2:54 PM -0600 9/9/10, Chad Perrin wrote: On Thu, Sep 09, 2010 at 04:28:59PM -0400, Garance A Drosehn wrote: I believe early X11-distributions had a script called "lndir" would pretty much do exactly what you want here. And then there was a companion command called "breakln" which would remove the symlink and make a copy of the original file to replace it. lndir is in ports: > pkgsearch lndir /usr/ports/devel/lndir I'm not so sure about a "breakln" being anywhere accessible, other than whatever tools you have handy. I'd like to see what you have, even if the OP doesn't need them. Are they of your own making, or copied from somewhere? It looks like my 'lndir' script started out as a copy of a script named 'lndir.sh' that the XConsortium had in Oct 1988. Over the years I added a number of features to it. Looking at the 'lndir' which is installed by the port, it seems to have added some of those same features, but my script writes out it's progress in a nicer format (IMO). Given that the port is written in C and much more recent, I suspect it is the right way to go. For large directories it is much faster than my script. I should check to see how much work it'd be to add my formatting to the C version. The 'breakln' script might be something written here at RPI. Looks like the last change to it was done in 1993. It is pretty simple: #!/bin/sh # # All the arguments are turned into copies of themselves, # and write access is granted to the user.This is good # for making exceptions to trees built with lndir. # if [ $# = 0 ]; then echo "Usage: $0 files..." exit fi for f in $* ; do mv $f $f.tmpln cp -p $f.tmpln $f rm $f.tmpln chmod u+w $f done -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = dros...@rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or g...@freebsd.org Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy, NY; USA ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: RootBSD?
At 9:04 AM -0400 4/6/10, Tom Ierna wrote: Hi, Anyone have any experience with RootBSD.net? I'm looking to move an office-hosted machine's services to the cloud, and they seem to be one of the only VPS companies centered around BSD support instead of Linux. I've been using them for a few years now. What I have with them is a system which is meant to be used as a "hot backup" for a system which is here in my office. So, the main things I wanted was (1) real freebsd systems, (2) which were someplace far away from Troy NY. I wanted to be pretty sure that any problem which took out my main system would NOT take out my "hot backup" system! I've had absolutely no trouble with them. The few times that I've had to contact them, they've been happy to provide whatever help I needed. On the other hand, my main system has been working fine for almost three years now, so this backup system that I have at rootbsd.net has not seen much activity. I just rsync the main system to the backup system once a day, and then every few months I upgrade the FreeBSD that I'm running on the system at rootbsd.net. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = dros...@rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or g...@freebsd.org Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy, NY; USA ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Looking for other UNIONFS users ...
At 9:45 PM -0300 10/4/05, Marc G. Fournier wrote: I've been talking to one developer that would be interested in fixing UNIONFS, but due to the # of bugs that existed *before* the VFS changes, the "fix" is going to involve a complete re-write, instead of just adding more bandaids and patches. So, my first question is how many ppl are out there that are using UNIONFS and would be interested in co-funding a rewrite of it so that its fixed "once and for all"? At times I have been interested in using it, but have stayed away due to bug-reports that I see pop up on the mailing lists. I'd be willing to contribute some money to a rewrite of it. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Systems Programmer or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy, NY; USA ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Apache log rotation
At 10:00 PM +1300 10/19/05, Jonathan Chen wrote: On Wed, Oct 19, 2005 at 03:54:15PM +0700, Olivier Nicole wrote: [...] Is there a clean way to rotate these logs a la newsyslog? I know I can use newsyslog to rotate them, but then how to notify Apache to use the new log files? I don't expect a signal HUP sent to httpd would be enough. It is. All you need to make sure that only the last line has the HUP to the httpd, as newsyslog works from top to bottom. eg: /var/log/apache/httpd-access.log644 12*$M1D0 BN /var/log/apache/httpd-error.log 644 12*$M1D0 B /var/run/httpd.pid *ALL* lines should include the HUP request. In the above example you are rotating at an explicit time, but many people also depend on the size of the file. If they do depend on the size of the file, then the above trick will not always work. It used to be that you had to do some trick like the above to avoid sending multiple HUP's to the process. I changed that so that the same process can be specified on many log files, and newsyslog will first rotate all files which need rotating, and then send a single signal to the process. So now there is no problem caused by specifying the same process on multiple entries in newsyslog.conf . -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Systems Programmer or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy, NY; USA ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: 4_stable changelog
At 4:00 PM +0100 12/14/05, Andrea Venturoli wrote: Hello. Since a server of mine is behaving strangely lately, and since I've seen some patches going round lately, I'm considering upgrading from 4.11 (latest patchlevel) to 4-STABLE. I downloaded the source, but /usr/src/UPDATING says almost nothing. Is there any available changelog or something similar? Just to know what I'd go through... /usr/src/UPDATING only adds new entries to describe "unusual issues" that you need to be careful about for when updating from "before" a given date to "after" that date. Very little has changed in the 4-STABLE branch since 4.11 was released, and nothing has been changed which people need special updating instructions for. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Systems Programmer or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy, NY; USA ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: log file rotation
At 2:50 PM -0600 1/16/06, Jason King wrote: My maillog and daillog files have stopped rotating everyday like they use to. I have 2 FBSD machines that have stopped these files from rotating as of Dec 15th. I have no idea what could have caused two different machines to have the same thing happen to them. The entry in my newsyslog.conf file is correct. There is no reason these files shouldn't be rotating daily like before. Anyone have any ideas on what to look for? Check timestamps on the various files. perhaps some kind of timewarp happened. Check to make sure newsyslog is still being run from cron. (do you have other files which are rotating, but just those two are not rotating?) Run:newsyslog -vv and see if it tells you anything interesting. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Systems Programmer or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy, NY; USA ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: log file rotation
At 9:23 AM -0600 1/17/06, Jason King wrote: On Tue, 2006-01-17 at 09:16 -0600, David Kelly wrote: On Tue, Jan 17, 2006 at 07:23:25AM -0600, Jason King wrote: > Hmm, when I run newsyslog I get the following message: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] newsyslog -vv > newsyslog: malformed 'at' value: > > /var/log/clamd.log 640 3 *$T00 > BJ /var/run/clamd.pid 1 > > > Any ideas? > Use @T00 rather than $T00 It is already @T00. I don't know why it appears as a $ in the email. Just did a copy paste. Go figure on that one. Any other thoughts? If newsyslog is saying that's a bad 'at' value, then there is *something* wrong with that line. Maybe there's some non-printing character in it, which might be why we see $T00 instead of @T00. But as long as newsyslog thinks there is something wrong with the 'at' value on that line, then it will not rotate the files. Maybe you have multiple lines for the same logfile, one with $T00 and one with @T00. Also, you don't need to specify the '1' at the end, since that is just SIGHUP, and newsyslog defaults to using SIGHUP unless you give it some other value. Including the '1' should not cause any problem, though. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Systems Programmer or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy, NY; USA ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Apache log rotation question...
At 5:02 AM +0900 11/4/06, Curtis Jewell wrote: My question really is, does newsyslog send the signal at the right time [after the rotation is done, per http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/logs.html#rotation ] and does it do the lines in order???) You can see what it will do by running newsyslog with the options of `-nv' to see what it would do, without it doing anything. Eg: newsyslog -nvvf /tmp/newsyslog.conf In your case you'd first want to use a different time in the entries you've added, just so the time to rotate is "this hour" (ie, whatever hour it is that you're running the program...). So, do that, and then run: newsyslog -nvf /tmp/newsyslog.conf You'll see that it first rotates all files that should be rotated for this run, then sends all signals it is supposed to send, then waits 10 seconds or so, and finally it compresses any of the old-files that it should compress. If you have a set of files which are all written to by a single process, then you should add the '/var/run/httpd.pid' to the newsyslog entry for *every* file that process writes to. The way newsyslog handles things, it will only send a single signal to any given process id, even if several different files from that process were rotated. Since all files have been rotated before the process is signalled, the process will only need to be signalled one time. Try the run with '-nv' to see exactly how it would work. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Systems Programmer or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy, NY; USA ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: PRs dead
At 10:13 PM +0100 11/24/06, [LoN]Kamikaze wrote: Since the move to the new servers my followups disappear in an unknown black home. Others told me that the same happens to the PRs they try to send. I understand that unexpected things happen, but this is basic infrastructure that doesn't work for some time, now. What's going on here? It is known that incoming PR's are not being handled quite right, but it might be a few more days before the problem is found and fixed. We're in the middle of a long holiday weekend here in the US. Apologies for the situation, but there's bound to be a few loose ends in a move like this. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Systems Programmer or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy, NY; USA ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Shell script frustration
At 10:10 AM +0100 7/28/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Garance wrote:
> What I do in this cases is create a script called "list_args.sh":
#!/bin/sh
printf "\nlist_args.sh at `date +%H:%M:%S` with \$# = $#\n"
# Process all parameters.
N=0
while test $# != 0 ; do
N=$(($N+1))
printf "\$$N = [%3d] '$1'\n" ${#1}
shift
done
Then in your script, replace the ldapdelete command with
list_args.sh. That way you'll see *exactly* what ldapdelete
is seeing for parameters, and that might help.
I tried that one, with an echo $* - though I assume the printf
prints it out 'more precise'?
Well, I also have versions that use an echo instead of printf.
The printf just makes it easier to have a "pretty" output.
The problem with using a plain 'echo *' is that there are
several different inputs which will produce the same output.
Compare:
echo a b
and echo "a b"
or echo "a b"
and echo "a b "
The outputs from `echo' will look the same, but the arguments to
the program are very different. That's why my script lists out
the exact arguments, with their lengths. I did that because
sometimes those details matter. I have solved problems similar
to the one which is frustrating you by using this kind of script.
--
Garance Alistair Drosehn = [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Senior Systems Programmer or [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy, NY; USA
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Re: 5.x separate /boot slice?
At 12:56 AM +0300 8/5/05, Michael Dexter wrote: I would like to try a separate /boot slice as permitted by FreeBSD 5.x... I missed the beginning of this thread. Where did you get the impression that FreeBSD will work if you create /boot as a separate partition? Search the list. This comes up about once a month, and I've yet to see anyone succeed. It came up on this very mailing list back on July 19th, with the subject of:'Re: /boot on a separate partition' Aside from "it's the way Linux does it", do you have any good reason for wanting this? All of my questions seem to generate that response. :) Trust me, they are informed questions. In short: I was thinking that previous and updated kernels could both coexist in /boot and a second root slice (plus usr ... as appropriate) could be mounted under /mnt and receive a fresh installation of the updated OS, rather than a overlay that requires mergemastering. In some respects this is a question of dual-booting FreeBSD and FreeBSD and I was hoping to share some partitions that are not affected by the update process, likely including var and tmp. But why does that shared partition have to be '/boot', and not '/'? FreeBSD tends to have a small-ish '/' partition, and then have separate partitions for /var and /usr, and often for /tmp. I do exactly what you'd like to do, but the partition I duplicate is '/'. I have a '/' partition and a '/xRoot' partition, and I use FreeBSD's snapshot feature (in 5.x and better) to duplicate that partition into /xRoot. This gives me a nice backup of /boot, /root, and /etc. I then upgrade the running system. It seems to work fine for me. This is where we get back to the question, "Why *must* your goal be done using a separate partition for '/boot'?". I do not mean that to be a hostile question. I'm just saying that I seem to be doing exactly what you want to do, and I've never needed a separate /boot partition to do it. The one trick involved is that you duplicate '/' to '/xRoot', and then you have to remember to change '/xRoot/etc/fstab' so that it points to itself as the '/' partition... I do that in a script, so that change is handled automatically... -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Systems Programmer or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy, NY; USA ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: 5.x separate /boot slice?
While this is a reply to a private message, I'm also sending it back to freebsd-questions. I would rather not spend this much time writing up information for a general topic, and then send it to just one person... Given how often this topic comes up, my hope is that other users might find these notes somewhat helpful. You had several good questions that are probably of general interest. At 2:42 PM +0300 8/5/05, Michael Dexter wrote: Hello, At 12:56 AM +0300 8/5/05, Michael Dexter wrote: I would like to try a separate /boot slice as permitted by FreeBSD 5.x... I missed the beginning of this thread. Where did you get the impression that FreeBSD will work if you create /boot as a separate partition? http://www.khmere.com/freebsd_book/html/ch08.html Ah. That page is basically correct, as far as it goes, but I think you're drawing the wrong conclusion from it... 5.x did switch to moving most boot-related files into /boot, and that does make it easier to sync boot-files between different partitions. But the page doesn't actually say that /boot is a separate partition. And indeed, it won't work if you try to make /boot a separate partition from '/'. I do exactly what you'd like to do, but the partition I duplicate is '/'. Are you sharing /var and /tmp between the current and updated systems? Well, yes. Although I guess what I do is more like the opposite of what you do. I create a backup of the active system, and then install into that active system. So, I only need my /xRoot (backup) if something goes wrong. I am a FreeBSD developer, and I am both tracking the cutting-edge branch (-current) and writing my own little changes. So, I'm more likely to see something go wrong than most people are... In any case, I'm not sure the install process will support what you would want to do (if you tried doing what I do...). You can't say "install part of this build into /xRoot, and other parts into /usr", and you can't mount /usr onto two different places at the same time. (so you couldn't mount it as /usr and /xRoot/usr). I have a '/' partition and a '/xRoot' partition, and I use FreeBSD's snapshot feature (in 5.x and better) to duplicate that partition into /xRoot. I was planning for a fresh install but seemingly rsync would give a similar effect. Why snapshots in this case? Snapshots just give you a consistent snapshot of the active partition, and then you can use whatever tool you want to copy data from that snapshot to the backup partition. The important benefit of the snapshot is that it gives you a consistent, frozen-in-time picture of what the partition was, even though files on the real partition are constantly changing. I use dump/restore to copy everything. I suppose you could use rsync too, although I don't know how well that would do with everything in /dev. Snapshots do interest me for other reasons and might you be able to refer me to more about them? I only see the mksnap_ffs man page. Presumably it can rollback in some way? No, no rollback. That *could* be implemented, but no one has done it yet. (I talked to Kirk about it once, and at one time I even had a student who claimed they would work on it for me, but so far nothing's happened...). I think there's a writeup somewhere on making/using snapshots. I'll see if I can remember where it is. Since there is no rollback, I use dump/restore to duplicate the snapshot on some other partition. I can then use *that* partition to boot up the system, if I need to. This gives me a nice backup of /boot, /root, and /etc. How are you handling /usr? I don't. If I can boot up a known-good backup kernel, and I have a known-good /bin and /sbin to match it, then I've been able to dig myself out of most troubles that I get myself into. YMMV. Er, by "I don't", I mean I rarely make a special backup of it before installing. But if I *do* have to boot into using the backup copy of '/', then that will mount the same /usr which the standard '/' would use. So, I'll have the "updated" /usr, along with the "back-level" '/', '/sbin', '/bin'. This can get you into trouble if you don't know what you're doing. But it is a much better starting point than if you didn't have any bootable backup partition at all... I then upgrade the running system. It seems to work fine for me. Thus giving you a system to roll back to if things go wrong? Correct. How are you choosing between the roots? nextboot? The bootmanager? I type commands into the boot loader. Note that I'm not doing remote-installs, so I'm able to type at the console when the system boots up. The one trick involved is that you duplicate '/' to '/xRoot', and then you have to remember to change '/xRoot/etc/fstab' so that it points to itself as the '/' partition... I do that in a script, so that change is handled automatically... That answers one of my questions above. As I prefaced, there are many things to keep track of to make this work. Considering the
Making UFS snapshots
At 1:48 AM +0300 8/7/05, Michael Dexter wrote: Hello Garance and all, Garance wrote: I think there's a writeup somewhere on making/using snapshots. I'll see if I can remember where it is. Any pointers are appreciated. Seriously, I can't find any useful documentation on how they work or what commands are involved. :( Odd, I see snapshot(8) on the web page but not my 5.4 system. Well, this is something I wrote up for some user's group or another. This was meant as a terse handout that I gave to people, and then I talked about each step in detail at the presentation. I probably should clean it up to make more sense, but hopefully this will give you the basic idea: * Example of making and using a UFS snapshot (as available in FreeBSD 5.3-release and later) See also http://www.mckusick.com/softdep/index.html * # Before the snapshot: df -k Filesystem 1K-blocksUsedAvail Capacity Mounted on /dev/ad4s3a272558 60038 19071624%/ devfs 1 10 100%/dev /dev/ad4s3e 4164558 1315622 251577234%/usr /dev/ad4s3d421358 19344 368306 5%/var cd /usr ls .snap/ cvs/lib/obj/src/ X11R6/ games/ libdata/ports/ bin/home/ libexec/sbin/ compat/ include/local/ share/ * # Creating the snapshot (I use a 'time' command to show # how quickly the snapshot is made, in real time, while # the partition is mounted and a few processes are # actively using it...) /usr/bin/time mount -u -o snapshot /usr/.snap/2004_1006 /usr 0.60 real 0.00 user 0.04 sys ls -l /usr/.snap/2004_1006 -r 1 root operator ... 4404019424 Oct 6 14:13 /usr/.snap/2004_1006 * # Attach that snapshot file to a memory device /usr/bin/time mdconfig -a -t vnode -u 0 \ -f /usr/.snap/2004_1006 0.03 real 0.00 user 0.00 sys * # Mount that memory device for user access mkdir -p /WayBack/usr-2004_1006 chmod 755 /WayBack /WayBack/usr-2004_1006 mount -r /dev/md0 /WayBack/usr-2004_1006 * # After it is mounted: df -k Filesystem 1K-blocksUsedAvail Capacity Mounted on /dev/ad4s3a272558 60038 190716 24%/ devfs 1 10 100%/dev /dev/ad4s3e 4164558 1318198 2513196 34%/usr /dev/ad4s3d421358 19344 3683065%/var /dev/md0 4164558 1315622 2515772 34%/WayBack/usr-2004_1006 cd /WayBack/usr-2004_1006 ls .snap/ cvs/lib/obj/src/ X11R6/ games/ libdata/ports/ bin/home/ libexec/sbin/ compat/ include/local/ share/ * # Getting rid of the snapshot umount /WayBack/usr-2004_1006 mdconfig -d -u 0 rm /usr/.snap/2004_1006 override r root/operator snapshot ... for /usr/.snap/2004_1006? y -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Systems Programmer or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy, NY; USA ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Unable to Print
At 5:05 PM -0400 8/1/06, Gerard Seibert wrote: FreeBSD 6.1 The printer on my system is connected to a WinXP machine. I installed apsfilter to configure the print setup. Everything appears to be working and I can print to the printer from within apsfilter. However, when I attempt to print either from the command line or from within KDE, I receive this error message: lpr: Error - scheduler not responding! I cannot find out what is causing it. I even did a reboot but the message continues. I Googled for a solution but they all seemed to involve cups and I do not want to install that if not necessary. I had another machine configured similar to this but using FBSD 5.4 that worked just fine. Check to see if you have multiple versions of 'lpr' running. *If* you do, then the results that you see will probably depend on which version you run. It might be that KDE was compiled to expect CUPS. I do not use KDE, and I do not use CUPS, but you might want to see if there is some "NO_CUPS" option for the KDE port. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Systems Programmer or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy, NY; USA ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Unable to Print
On August 1/2006, I (Garance) wrote: Check to see if you have multiple versions of 'lpr' running. *If* you do, then the results that you see will probably depend on which version you run. What I meant to say was: Check to see if you have multiple versions of `lpr' *installed*. See what you get from the command: type -a lpr -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Systems Programmer or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy, NY; USA ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: BSDstats Project v2.0 ...
At 9:32 AM +1000 8/9/06, Antony Mawer wrote: What if we improved upon this - if instead of storing the hostname and IP address, we stored a one-way hash of this information? OpenSSH in recent versions takes the same approach with its authorized_keys files... A scattered list of ideas: It might be useful to keep part of the domain-name in plain-text. Just a minimal part, such as '.edu' or '.co.uk'. So that would be one value sent/saved. Then have an MD5 hash of `hostname` (hashing the full hostname, including full domain), or maybe a hash of the output from: hostname ; ifconfig | grep ether Eg: hostname ; ifconfig | grep ether freefour.acs.rpi.edu ether 00:09:5b:01:02:03 ether 00:11:09:09:08:07 (this machine has two ethernet cards in it, and no, those are not the real MAC addresses of the cards... :-) ==> (hostname ; ifconfig | grep ether) | md5 0670be39b40dc52d996e1a6dcee6cca7 Maybe combine that with the partial-domain, to get 0670be39b40dc52d996e1a6dcee6cca7.edu Further, whatever value you decide to use to create a unique value, you could just save that value away in some file under /var/db . If the file does not exist, then create it and store the probably-unique value. That way you can pick some algorithm which should produce a unique result, and not worry if the value of that algorithm might change (on a single machine) over time. You'll only calculate it once, and then keep using that result. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Systems Programmer or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy, NY; USA ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: LPRng question and printing in general
At 2:07 PM -0700 12/8/07, Predrag Punosevac wrote: I would like to ask people who use LPRng spooling system on FreeBSD to clarify something for me. I have never used LPRng in production, although I know the guys in our (RPI) CS department used to use it for their printing world. I also noticed that PDQ project is completely abandoned by its creator. Also LPRng was abandoned by its creator in 2005 and then picked by somebody else. Hmm. I haven't used LPRng in awhile, but I used to pay attention to the mailing list. The web site: http://www.lprng.com/ seems relevant, and talks about Patrick Powell as the author, and according to that web page the most recent update is 12 Sep 2007 (for LPRng-3.8.32). I'm pretty sure that Patrick has always been the driving force behind LPRng. Perhaps it is the FreeBSD port for building LPRng which has seen someone new pick it up? Patrick wouldn't be responsible for our OS-specific port. Is FreeBSD printing essentially reduced to LPD+apsfilter for small to medium print networks and CUPS for very complex printing networks or LPRng is alive and well. Heh. Well, I run a pretty complicated printing environment here at RPI, based on FreeBSD's lpr and a bunch of custom changes to CAP. Works well for us, but it probably wouldn't work well for most people. Hopefully I'll get back to merging some of RPI changes back into FreeBSD's lpr. I tried to get into LPRng mailing lists but they seems are not active any more. I'm not sure what happened to those. I used to be on them, but every once-in-awhile the mailing list software would complain that our (RPI) mail hub was rejecting mail, and would drop me from the mailing list. After the fourth or fifth time this happened, I stopped adding myself back onto the list. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Systems Programmer or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy, NY; USA ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: portupgrade modifys EVERY +CONTENTS now?
At 2:55 AM -0400 8/6/07, Tuc at T-B-O-H.NET wrote: Ok. But I part of my question to people , and reason for posting it here, is the old "Is anyone else seeing this". When/if you use portupgrade, does it do the same for you? Or is it just something that I happened some how to inherit on at least 2 of my machines? I've noticed it, but I've also noticed that it does not happen every time. I had one case were I did a portupgrade of a specific set of components, and later I noticed that all the directories under /var/db/pkg had been modified. I did a 'portupgrade -f' of the exact same components, and this time the only directories which changed were the ones which were upgraded. While the behavior seems odd, it has not caused any problems for me, so I haven't done much investigation of it. (the above paragraph describes almost all of the investigation that I have done...) Warner Losh also stumbled into this, in a recent case where he ended up losing all subdirectories of /var/db/pkg due to a system crash during a portupgrade. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Systems Programmer or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy, NY; USA ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: newsyslog.conf / rotating logs based on size AND time
At 10:17 AM +0200 8/5/08, Zbigniew Szalbot wrote: My question is how can I make sure the logs are rotated when they grow too large AND they are also rotated at a specified point in time (start of a new month). I am reading man newsyslog.conf and it says: If the when field contains an asterisk (`*'), log rotation will solely depend on the contents of the size field. To me it seems to say that when it is not an asterisk (i.e. when I enter a date), the log rotation is not based solely on size factor, which in other words should mean it is also based on time? I haven't looked closely at newsyslog in awhile. I started to write up a reply to you, but in a quick test newsyslog does not seem to be working the way that I expected it to work. It might just be that I was too tired to think straight when I was testing. I'll try to get back to this sometime later today. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Systems Programmer or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy, NY; USA ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: newsyslog naming scheme could be improved?
At 9:33 AM -0700 10/11/08, Kelly Jones wrote: ...but has anyone considered tweaking newsyslog to name files messages.2008-10-05-12-00-00.gz or something. IE, give them a constant name that doesn't change and then delete them after how many ever days? It would be bad to change the default behavior, but there have been several people who wished for some option for newsyslog which would make it use some alternate naming scheme. There's at least one PR about it, for instance. It is on my list of things to do, but I've had a long stretch of time where I have too many things on that list. I wouldn't go for a naming scheme that's as long as the above suggestion, though. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Systems Programmer or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy, NY; USA ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Looking information about CF files of LPD
At 10:55 PM -0700 11/13/08, Martin Alejandro Paredes Sanchez wrote: Hi: I have the idea of had seen the description of the content of CF files, but I can't find anymore in the handbook. That information had been removed? There's some RFC for it, but pretty much nobody implements CF-files in the exact way that is described in the RFC. I doubt it was ever described in any detail in the FreeBSD handbook, but it may have been in some of the books which have been written for the BSD's. You may have seen the comments I wrote up in one of the source files for lpr (common_source/ctlinfo.c): http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/cvsweb.cgi/~checkout~/src/usr.sbin/lpr/common_source/ctlinfo.c?rev=1.10.16.1;content-type=text%2Fplain Scan down for the comment: "Control-files (cf*) have the following format" That's probably not complete, but it's whatever I felt was worth noting when I wrote that source file. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Systems Programmer or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy, NY; USA ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Asus eee (was Re: G4 Quicksilver as Web Server?)
At 9:14 AM -0500 1/2/08, Ed Maste wrote: On Tue, Jan 01, 2008 at 06:20:22PM +, James Jeffery wrote: Before i end the toipic, anyone got any feeback on the Asus Eee (mini laptops) with FreeBSD? It works, but no drivers exist for the wireless or wired Ethernet ports. The wireless is a newer Atheros part and ath(4) should gain support for it, but I have no idea what the timeline will be. The wired Ethernet is an Atheros (formerly Attansic) L2 10/100, and I'm not aware of any concrete plans for a driver for it. I've used a Linksys USB200M USB ethernet (axe(4) driver) with mine and that works well. One of the guys I know is running FreeBSD on the Eee, and has written up the following information for anyone who is interested in doing what he did: http://nighthack.org/wiki/EeeBSD This includes tips on how to get the wireless working, and sound, and some oddities with how X11 works. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Systems Programmer or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy, NY; USA ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Newsyslog mode on /var/log/security?
At 10:48 PM +0200 3/29/09, Roger Olofsson wrote: Dear mailing list, I seem to have forgotten something about /var/log/security and newsyslog.conf. I get wrong mode after the trim. Excerpt from /etc/newsyslog.conf: /var/log/security 644 7 5000 * JC Are you sure that's the only line you have for /var/log/security in your /etc/newsyslog.conf file? The distributed config file has: /var/log/security 600 10100 * JC Obviously you have a different entry from that, but did you remove the original entry? Output from newsyslog -vn: chmod 600 /var/log/security.0.bz2 Why is the mode not 644? /etc/rc.d/syslogd restart and newsyslog restart have been performed. I tried changing the permissions-field in my newsyslog.conf from 600 to 644, and newsyslog worked correctly for me. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = dros...@rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or g...@freebsd.org Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy, NY; USA ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Newsyslog mode on /var/log/security?
At 8:08 AM +0200 3/30/09, Roger Olofsson wrote: Garance A Drosehn skrev: At 10:48 PM +0200 3/29/09, Roger Olofsson wrote: I seem to have forgotten something about /var/log/security and newsyslog.conf. I get wrong mode after the trim. Excerpt from /etc/newsyslog.conf: /var/log/security 644 7 5000 * JC Are you sure that's the only line you have for /var/log/security in your /etc/newsyslog.conf file? The distributed config file has: /var/log/security600 10 100* JC Obviously you have a different entry from that, but did you remove the original entry? Hi Garance, You are correct! I missed the original line. Silly me :^D Well, I should probably change newsyslog to "do something different" (he says vaguely) when the same file is specified multiple times. Thank you very much! You're welcome. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = dros...@rpi.edu Senior Systems Programmer or g...@freebsd.org Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy, NY; USA ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Circumstance leading up to removal of perl from base?
At 7:02 PM -0400 6/20/08, Dan Mahoney, System Admin wrote: Hello all, I know it was a long time ago, but I was talking with a co-worker about why perl was removed from the base in v5 -- I seem to recall a discussion on some mailing list about either the number of arguments or the format of the arguments and/or output of a base perl function having changed between 5.005 and 5.6.1. There were a lot of changes between perl 5.005 and later versions of perl. Those issues were changes to perl itself, so check the history of perl for details. I don't remember the details myself, but I do know that I had to change a few of my own perl scripts to get them to work with whatever changes there were. When it comes to FreeBSD, those incompatible changes meant we were reluctant to upgrade perl in the base system, because we might break the scripts for lots of sysadmins. On the other hand, most sysadmins *wanted* all the newer features in the newer versions of perl, so most people were installing it from ports even though we had the older version in the base system. And when people had two versions of perl installed (one from the base-OS, one from ports), then they often ran into problems with perl scripts which would get the wrong version. There were also programs which would have configure scripts that would pick up one version of perl, make decisions based on that, but then build scripts and those scripts would actually get the *other* version of perl. Remember also this was back when the FreeBSD project was putting a lot of energy into the great FreeBSD 5.x branch -- which for awhile seemed like it would never get truly stable. And we could not make a major change (such as upgrading perl) in any stable branch -- a change like that would break too many things. In that context, it was clear that FreeBSD was a project which had its release schedule, and Perl was a big and important project which had *its* own release schedule. And we were always going to be in trouble if our release schedule did not match perl's schedule. The final straw for perl in the base system was when the project was trying to bring up new hardware platforms (sparc64, or ia64, or maybe something else. I forget which one). In order to do that, you have to be able to *cross-build* the base system on one hardware platform while you're trying to get the new hardware platform to the point that it is self-hosting. And trying to take all the source code for the perl project, and re-organize it so it would correctly cross-build in the "proper way for the FreeBSD base system" was a lot of extra headaches. There were plenty of other arguments to remove perl from the base system, but cross-platform builds were the issue which actually triggered it's removal. -- Garance Alistair Drosehn = [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Systems Programmer or [EMAIL PROTECTED] Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute; Troy, NY; USA ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
