Re: Ports on Macbook

[Michaël Grünewald]

Gary Kline a écrit :
	If this were only true!  ...But as I understand it, corporations like 
	the RIAA forbid me from making a backup of a CD  or DVD that I *own*.

(E.g, a 6-CD set of Shostokovich).

While this thread is off-list and is probably annoying many people here, I 
cannot refrain to point out that this kind of discussion is void unless it is 
studied in a given legal system. For example in France, a court may decide that 
a given clause in a EULA is void because it is unfairly restrictive, or because 
the customer was not properly informed, oe because it contradicts current 
usage, or whatever. Companies and particulars can write everything they want, 
this does not make a law.

BTW I would like to point out that the question of validity of EULA is the same 
than the problem of validity of other software licences such as BSD or GPL: any 
of them will only be given a definitive answer in the front of a court.
--
Cheers,
Michaël



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Re: Ports on Macbook

[Gary Kline]

On Tue, Mar 03, 2009 at 01:25:21PM +0100, Bernt Hansson wrote:
> Polytropon said the following on 2009-03-03 03:24:
> >On Mon, 02 Mar 2009 20:22:50 +0100, Bernt Hansson  
> >wrote:
> >>FBSD UG skrev:
> >>>You're not buying the software, you buy a license to use it on one  
> >>>Apple computer.
> 
> >>Mostly semantics,  if I name my computer "APPLE" Then it's "legal" to
> >>install. Crap, if I buy it I can install it on ANY computer. Does not
> >>have to be a computer named "APPLE" it could be "IBM", "HP" or any other
> >>brand or non brand.
> >
> >I think an important point is that you loose support from Apple
> >if you're not installing Mac OS X on Apple brand hardware.
> 
> That may be. But i'm not talking about apple specificly.
> 
> >As for the license agreement, if you buy Mac OS X from the shelf
> >(for example), you've not confirmed any contract-like agreement
> >with Apple yet, but you've purchased some rights already, for
> >example the right to burn the whole package (not a nice example
> >but I'm sure you get the idea); the EULA mentions nothing about
> >this (legally possible) behavior.
> 
> Well, you have the right to make a backup. Is it that?
> 
> >The Mac OS X versions sold along with the "Hackintosh" are no
> >illegally pirated copies, they're "boxes" from the shelf. It's
> >up to the customer what to do with it.
> 
> Yes. Like with any digital file/s


If this were only true!  ...But as I understand it, corporations like 
the RIAA forbid me from making a backup of a CD  or DVD that I *own*.
(E.g, a 6-CD set of Shostokovich).   Admittedly, it's getting OT to ask 
if it wasn't corporate greed that's causing the Global meltdown, but we
come back to the point if we ask two straightforward questions: 
1. What is ethical?  2. How much is too much?

gary


> 
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-- 
 Gary Kline  kl...@thought.org  http://www.thought.org  Public Service Unix
http://jottings.thought.org   http://transfinite.thought.org
The 2.23a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org/index.php

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Re: Ports on Macbook

[Julian Wissmann]

Am 03.03.2009 um 13:40 schrieb Luigi Iannone:

This is not right. The US doesn't recognize the judging of any other  
country according to proskauerguide, nor do any other countries have  
to recognize US law or judging. You are saying that basically every  
country that has signed Internation Commercial Agreement basically  
subordinates their own laws which is not the case. Their own laws come  
first.



The EULA states:

"This License will be governed by and construed in accordance with  
the laws of the State of California,.."


Since I assume that Sweden has signed international commercial  
agreements with the USA, I think that it odes not matter what the  
Swedish law says about signing or not a license agreement, in this  
specific case the law of California applies.


L.

On Mar 3, 2009, at 13:29 , Bernt Hansson wrote:


FBSD UG said the following on 2009-03-03 09:25:

On 2 mrt 2009, at 20:22, Bernt Hansson wrote:

FBSD UG skrev:


You're not buying the software, you buy a license to use it on one
Apple computer.


Mostly semantics,  if I name my computer "APPLE" Then it's  
"legal" to
install. Crap, if I buy it I can install it on ANY computer. Does  
not
have to be a computer named "APPLE" it could be "IBM", "HP" or  
any other

brand or non brand.




did you sign all Swedish laws then?


Kind of way, yes, since I voted in the election 2006


How is Apple going to prevent illegal copying?


They have the copyright laws, as I stated before.
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Re: Ports on Macbook

[Luigi Iannone]

On Mar 3, 2009, at 19:07 , Charles Oppermann wrote:


On Tue March 3 2009 4:40:37 am Luigi Iannone wrote:

The EULA states:
"This License will be governed by and construed in accordance with  
the

laws of the State of California,.."
Since I assume that Sweden has signed international commercial
agreements with the USA, I think that it odes not matter what the
Swedish law says about signing or not a license agreement, in this
specific case the law of California applies.


In a previous message, I posted the link to the license agreements  
Apple uses
for Mac OS.  There is a Swedish language version for Sweden which  
appears
basically the same as the United States version, but says that the  
laws of

Sweden would apply.


Strange, in the english version is clearly stated that translations  
are provided in the sake of clarity but legally only the english one  
count.


Luigi



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Re: Ports on Macbook

[Charles Oppermann]

On Tue March 3 2009 4:40:37 am Luigi Iannone wrote:
> The EULA states:
> "This License will be governed by and construed in accordance with the
> laws of the State of California,.."
> Since I assume that Sweden has signed international commercial
> agreements with the USA, I think that it odes not matter what the
> Swedish law says about signing or not a license agreement, in this
> specific case the law of California applies.

In a previous message, I posted the link to the license agreements Apple uses 
for Mac OS.  There is a Swedish language version for Sweden which appears 
basically the same as the United States version, but says that the laws of 
Sweden would apply.
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Re: Ports on Macbook

[michael]

Andrew Gould wrote:
On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 9:00 AM, michael > wrote:


Andrew Gould wrote:

On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 7:33 AM, michael
mailto:michael.copel...@gmail.com>> wrote:
 



*snip*

...and legalities aside, let's not forget the question of ethics.

Andrew
 



ethics is like latin, few care. but i agree with you in entirety.

michael


At least you didn't make a "dead language" analogy.  ;-)

Andrew
I was tempted to, but when i considered it, i came to the conclusion 
that it would just lead this thread down another rabbit trail. wrong is 
wrong, no matter your country.

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Re: Ports on Macbook

[Andrew Gould]

On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 9:00 AM, michael  wrote:

> Andrew Gould wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 7:33 AM, michael 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
 *snip*

>>> ...and legalities aside, let's not forget the question of ethics.
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>>
>
> ethics is like latin, few care. but i agree with you in entirety.
>
> michael
>
>
At least you didn't make a "dead language" analogy.  ;-)

Andrew
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Re: Ports on Macbook

[michael]

Andrew Gould wrote:

On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 7:33 AM, michael  wrote:
  


*snip*

...and legalities aside, let's not forget the question of ethics.

Andrew
  


ethics is like latin, few care. but i agree with you in entirety.

michael

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Re: Ports on Macbook

[Andrew Gould]

On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 7:33 AM, michael  wrote:

> Marc Coyles wrote:
>
>> http://www.apple.com/legal/sla/macosx.html
>>
>>
> They can write whatever they want. I'm not binded by it.
>
>

>> "This License allows you to install and use one copy of the Apple
>> Software on a single *Apple-labeled* computer at a time"
>>
>> So, in theory, apply white lx tape to any PC, write "APPLE" on it
>> in black marker. That PC is now labelled "Apple" and you can therefore
>> use their software on it legally... (?) O_o
>>
>> Marci
>>
>>
> playing the semantics game has gotten people in trouble before.
> on a side note, Sweden is a member of Interpol, and therefore subject to
> international laws.
>
> #this is specifically to our Swedish friend
>
> "http://www.interpol.int/Public/ICPO/Members/default.asp";
> "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpol";
> In order to maintain as politically neutral a role as possible, Interpol's
> constitution  forbids its
> involvement in crimes that do not overlap several member countries,^[2] <
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpol#cite_note-1> or in any political,
> military, religious, or racial crimes.^[3] <
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpol#cite_note-2> Its work focuses
> primarily on public safety, terrorism <
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism>, organized crime <
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organized_crime>, war crimes <
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_crimes>, illicit drug <
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illicit_drug> production, drug trafficking <
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_trafficking>, weapons smuggling <
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weapons_smuggling>, human trafficking <
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_trafficking>, money laundering <
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_laundering>, child pornography <
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_pornography>, white-collar crime <
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White-collar_crime>, computer crime <
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_crime>, intellectual property crime
>  and corruption <
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_corruption>.
>
> violating laws of more than one member state, in this case the united
> states and anywhere that a stolen copy transfers to in the member states
> constitutes a crime. that being digital or physical media. people have
> already been prosecuted in countries for doing exactly this and arguing that
> their own laws say its not forbidden.
>
>> ___
>>  
>
>
...and legalities aside, let's not forget the question of ethics.

Andrew
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RE: Ports on Macbook

[Da Rock]

On Tue, 2009-03-03 at 12:52 +, Marc Coyles wrote:
> > >>> http://www.apple.com/legal/sla/macosx.html
> > >> They can write whatever they want. I'm not binded by it.
> 
> "This License allows you to install and use one copy of the Apple
> Software on a single *Apple-labeled* computer at a time"
> 
> So, in theory, apply white lx tape to any PC, write "APPLE" on it
> in black marker. That PC is now labelled "Apple" and you can therefore
> use their software on it legally... (?) O_o
> 
> Marci

This will be my last comment on this matter as the topic is long
overdrawn. Until crazy people in the US (not all- just the some who
insist on stupid policies) step out of their topsy turvy virtual
realities and into the real world there are going to be semantics like
this.

This should be a simple thing (and I believe the BSD license presents
this- I'll check again to be sure): respect the authors ownership to the
software as a writer, don't come whinging when it doesn't work like you
think it should.

MS and other whack job fools (in an effort to maximise their control and
obtain as much money as they can without much effort) come up with these
stupid, crazy licenses and "agreements" which in reality can't be
enforced and expect people to live by them. GPL is not much different
here- its only free in a purchasing sense. Licenses limit peoples use of
the software; intellectual property should be honoured (and is through
copyright), but limits are limits and should not be fettered on good
people. (I will point out that I have done ethics studies at uni and I
do understand the ramifications of my comments here) Something you can't
hold in your hands shouldn't be sellable- time on the other hand should
(and can) be. Look at the absolute shambles of the current situation
with the plethora of licenses and the conflicting agreements between
them all, the confusion for the average user and the minefield for the
sysadmins.

What happens when someone does click no and attempts a refund? The
stores will not honour that refund and money is lost by the customer. In
Australia, there is legal precedent that negates a corporation's use of
size and force against a smaller client - currently this being used
against banks and credit card companies, but it would apply here: the
EULA's essentially state "say yes or your money will have been wasted".

Not to mention that you pay money for the crappy software full of bugs
and a security nightmare, then pay again for someone to come out and fix
the problems you find! I personally would rather pay for the fix and
skip the initial costs...

RIAA and DMCA and any other acronym against the small single users need
to get a life! Instead of fighting the current go with the flow- it
seems that of late the tide might be finally turning with the
subscription services offered: a step in the RIGHT direction. Now if
only MS and others would take the hint and get a clue as to how the real
world works...

Thats my rant... I'm out of breath :)

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Re: Ports on Macbook

[michael]

Marc Coyles wrote:

http://www.apple.com/legal/sla/macosx.html
  

They can write whatever they want. I'm not binded by it.



"This License allows you to install and use one copy of the Apple
Software on a single *Apple-labeled* computer at a time"

So, in theory, apply white lx tape to any PC, write "APPLE" on it
in black marker. That PC is now labelled "Apple" and you can therefore
use their software on it legally... (?) O_o

Marci
  

playing the semantics game has gotten people in trouble before.
on a side note, Sweden is a member of Interpol, and therefore subject to 
international laws.


#this is specifically to our Swedish friend

"http://www.interpol.int/Public/ICPO/Members/default.asp";
"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpol";
In order to maintain as politically neutral a role as possible, 
Interpol's constitution  
forbids its involvement in crimes that do not overlap several member 
countries,^[2]  or in 
any political, military, religious, or racial crimes.^[3] 
 Its work focuses 
primarily on public safety, terrorism 
, organized crime 
, war crimes 
, illicit drug 
 production, drug trafficking 
, weapons smuggling 
, human trafficking 
, money laundering 
, child pornography 
, white-collar crime 
, computer crime 
, intellectual property 
crime  and 
corruption .


violating laws of more than one member state, in this case the united 
states and anywhere that a stolen copy transfers to in the member states 
constitutes a crime. that being digital or physical media. people have 
already been prosecuted in countries for doing exactly this and arguing 
that their own laws say its not forbidden.

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RE: Ports on Macbook

[Marc Coyles]

> >>> http://www.apple.com/legal/sla/macosx.html
> >> They can write whatever they want. I'm not binded by it.

"This License allows you to install and use one copy of the Apple
Software on a single *Apple-labeled* computer at a time"

So, in theory, apply white lx tape to any PC, write "APPLE" on it
in black marker. That PC is now labelled "Apple" and you can therefore
use their software on it legally... (?) O_o

Marci


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Re: Ports on Macbook

[Luigi Iannone]

The EULA states:

"This License will be governed by and construed in accordance with the  
laws of the State of California,.."


Since I assume that Sweden has signed international commercial  
agreements with the USA, I think that it odes not matter what the  
Swedish law says about signing or not a license agreement, in this  
specific case the law of California applies.


L.

On Mar 3, 2009, at 13:29 , Bernt Hansson wrote:


FBSD UG said the following on 2009-03-03 09:25:

On 2 mrt 2009, at 20:22, Bernt Hansson wrote:

FBSD UG skrev:


You're not buying the software, you buy a license to use it on one
Apple computer.


Mostly semantics,  if I name my computer "APPLE" Then it's "legal"  
to
install. Crap, if I buy it I can install it on ANY computer. Does  
not
have to be a computer named "APPLE" it could be "IBM", "HP" or any  
other

brand or non brand.




did you sign all Swedish laws then?


Kind of way, yes, since I voted in the election 2006


How is Apple going to prevent illegal copying?


They have the copyright laws, as I stated before.
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Re: Ports on Macbook

[Bernt Hansson]

Da Rock said the following on 2009-03-03 13:13:

On Sat, 2009-02-28 at 22:37 -0800, Charles Oppermann wrote:

That depends on where you are domiciled. Under certain scenarios, simply
open the box, or installing the software constitutes acceptance of the
EULA.

Yes I'm aware of that, but that kind of agreement isn't valid in Sweden.
That would be tantamount to allowing software piracy in Sweden.  The Mac OS X 
license agreements are contained in a PDF file here:


http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/macosx105.pdf

There is a Swedish language agreement for sales in Sweden.  Using on-line 
translation tools, it appears to be similar to what's already been stated; 
use of the software consistutes acceptance of the agreement.  If you do not 
agree, you are requested to return the software.  Presumably, the retail 
materials contain this agreement, and I'm sure there is digital copy that is 
presented and must be agreed to before use.


I'm sure that Apple has very good lawyers who drafted the license agreements 
and are aware of Swedish law.  While what you are doing may or may not be in 
violation of any licenses, your position that "clicking yes or no is not a 
handshake or oral agreement acording to Swedish law" seems dubious and 
ill-advised.


Consider what you're suggesting:  If EULA's and license agreements simply 
weren't valid in Sweden, then what would prevent massive piracy from 
occuring?  I would assume that if license agreements in Sweden weren't 
enforcable, someone would be setting up their own software copying business.




I don't see how one could assume that software piracy (copying software
illegally in this context) would be suddenly legal based simply on the
eula being invalid. EULA's are for the USE of software- not the copying
and selling of those copies of it.


Exactly! EULAs is for the use of programs. BUT you can NOT make an 
agreement like MS or apples EULAs or any EULA that reads "doing this you 
agree to that"


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Re: Ports on Macbook

[Bernt Hansson]

FBSD UG said the following on 2009-03-03 09:25:


On 2 mrt 2009, at 20:22, Bernt Hansson wrote:


FBSD UG skrev:


You're not buying the software, you buy a license to use it on one
Apple computer.


Mostly semantics,  if I name my computer "APPLE" Then it's "legal" to
install. Crap, if I buy it I can install it on ANY computer. Does not
have to be a computer named "APPLE" it could be "IBM", "HP" or any other
brand or non brand.




did you sign all Swedish laws then?


Kind of way, yes, since I voted in the election 2006


How is Apple going to prevent illegal copying?


They have the copyright laws, as I stated before.
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Re: Ports on Macbook

[Bernt Hansson]

Polytropon said the following on 2009-03-03 03:24:

On Mon, 02 Mar 2009 20:22:50 +0100, Bernt Hansson  wrote:

FBSD UG skrev:
You're not buying the software, you buy a license to use it on one  
Apple computer.



Mostly semantics,  if I name my computer "APPLE" Then it's "legal" to
install. Crap, if I buy it I can install it on ANY computer. Does not
have to be a computer named "APPLE" it could be "IBM", "HP" or any other
brand or non brand.


I think an important point is that you loose support from Apple
if you're not installing Mac OS X on Apple brand hardware.


That may be. But i'm not talking about apple specificly.


As for the license agreement, if you buy Mac OS X from the shelf
(for example), you've not confirmed any contract-like agreement
with Apple yet, but you've purchased some rights already, for
example the right to burn the whole package (not a nice example
but I'm sure you get the idea); the EULA mentions nothing about
this (legally possible) behavior.


Well, you have the right to make a backup. Is it that?


The Mac OS X versions sold along with the "Hackintosh" are no
illegally pirated copies, they're "boxes" from the shelf. It's
up to the customer what to do with it.


Yes. Like with any digital file/s

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Re: Ports on Macbook

[Bernt Hansson]

Da Rock said the following on 2009-03-03 12:34:

http://www.apple.com/legal/sla/macosx.html 

They can write whatever they want. I'm not binded by it.



Cool country... :)


It is. Now it's +3 degrees.
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Re: Ports on Macbook

[Da Rock]

On Sat, 2009-02-28 at 22:37 -0800, Charles Oppermann wrote:
> > > That depends on where you are domiciled. Under certain scenarios, simply
> > > open the box, or installing the software constitutes acceptance of the
> > > EULA.
> >
> > Yes I'm aware of that, but that kind of agreement isn't valid in Sweden.
> 
> That would be tantamount to allowing software piracy in Sweden.  The Mac OS X 
> license agreements are contained in a PDF file here:
> 
> http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/macosx105.pdf
> 
> There is a Swedish language agreement for sales in Sweden.  Using on-line 
> translation tools, it appears to be similar to what's already been stated; 
> use of the software consistutes acceptance of the agreement.  If you do not 
> agree, you are requested to return the software.  Presumably, the retail 
> materials contain this agreement, and I'm sure there is digital copy that is 
> presented and must be agreed to before use.
> 
> I'm sure that Apple has very good lawyers who drafted the license agreements 
> and are aware of Swedish law.  While what you are doing may or may not be in 
> violation of any licenses, your position that "clicking yes or no is not a 
> handshake or oral agreement acording to Swedish law" seems dubious and 
> ill-advised.
> 
> Consider what you're suggesting:  If EULA's and license agreements simply 
> weren't valid in Sweden, then what would prevent massive piracy from 
> occuring?  I would assume that if license agreements in Sweden weren't 
> enforcable, someone would be setting up their own software copying business.
> 

I don't see how one could assume that software piracy (copying software
illegally in this context) would be suddenly legal based simply on the
eula being invalid. EULA's are for the USE of software- not the copying
and selling of those copies of it.

> ...and if that happened, I would expect software companies to change their 
> license agreements in order to prevent it.  
> 
> > If you are under 18 you can't make any 
> > legally binding agreements without your legal guardians permission.
> 
> That might be true, but at least in the United States, parents or guardians 
> are usually held responsible.
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Re: Ports on Macbook

[Da Rock]

On Sat, 2009-02-28 at 20:04 +0100, Bernt Hansson wrote:
> Sean Cavanaugh skrev:
> > --
> > From: "Bernt Hansson" 
> > Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 11:26 AM
> > To: "Sean Cavanaugh" 
> > Cc: "freebsd-questions" 
> > Subject: Re: Ports on Macbook
> > 
> >> Sean Cavanaugh said the following on 2009-02-28 16:25:
> >>> -
> >>> From: "Bernt Hansson" 
> >>> Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 9:32 AM
> >>> To: "FBSD UG" 
> >>> Cc: "freebsd-questions" 
> >>> Subject: Re: Ports on Macbook
> >>
> > 
> 
> > read the license.
> > 
> > "PLEASE READ THIS SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT ("LICENSE") CAREFULLY BEFORE 
> > USING THE SOFTWARE. BY USING THE SOFTWARE, YOU ARE AGREEING TO BE BOUND BY 
> > THE TERMS OF THIS LICENSE."
> 
> NO. I'm not in any way binded by that eula. Those kind of non agreements
> is not legaly binding in Sweden. I MUST SIGN AN AGREEMENT to be binded
> by it.
> 
> > http://www.apple.com/legal/sla/macosx.html 
> 
> They can write whatever they want. I'm not binded by it.
> 

Cool country... :)

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Re: Ports on Macbook

[Matthias Apitz]

El día Tuesday, March 03, 2009 a las 09:25:03AM +0100, FBSD UG escribió:

> 
> On 2 mrt 2009, at 20:22, Bernt Hansson wrote:
> 
> >FBSD UG skrev:
> >>
> >>You're not buying the software, you buy a license to use it on one
> >>Apple computer.
> >
> >Mostly semantics,  if I name my computer "APPLE" Then it's "legal" to
> >install. Crap, if I buy it I can install it on ANY computer. Does not
> >have to be a computer named "APPLE" it could be "IBM", "HP" or any  
> >other
> >brand or non brand.
> >
> >
> did you sign all Swedish laws then?
> 
> How is Apple going to prevent illegal copying?

Could you please chat this off-topic issues off-list? Thx

matthias
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Re: Ports on Macbook

[FBSD UG]

On 2 mrt 2009, at 20:22, Bernt Hansson wrote:


FBSD UG skrev:


You're not buying the software, you buy a license to use it on one
Apple computer.


Mostly semantics,  if I name my computer "APPLE" Then it's "legal" to
install. Crap, if I buy it I can install it on ANY computer. Does not
have to be a computer named "APPLE" it could be "IBM", "HP" or any  
other

brand or non brand.



did you sign all Swedish laws then?

How is Apple going to prevent illegal copying?
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Re: Ports on Macbook

[Polytropon]

On Mon, 02 Mar 2009 20:22:50 +0100, Bernt Hansson  wrote:
> FBSD UG skrev:
> > 
> > You're not buying the software, you buy a license to use it on one  
> > Apple computer.
> 
> Mostly semantics,  if I name my computer "APPLE" Then it's "legal" to
> install. Crap, if I buy it I can install it on ANY computer. Does not
> have to be a computer named "APPLE" it could be "IBM", "HP" or any other
> brand or non brand.

I think an important point is that you loose support from Apple
if you're not installing Mac OS X on Apple brand hardware.

As for the license agreement, if you buy Mac OS X from the shelf
(for example), you've not confirmed any contract-like agreement
with Apple yet, but you've purchased some rights already, for
example the right to burn the whole package (not a nice example
but I'm sure you get the idea); the EULA mentions nothing about
this (legally possible) behavior.

The Mac OS X versions sold along with the "Hackintosh" are no
illegally pirated copies, they're "boxes" from the shelf. It's
up to the customer what to do with it.




-- 
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>From Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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Re: Ports on Macbook

[Chris Rees]

2009/3/2 Julian Wissmann :
> Oh, that didn't go to the list, did it.
> I should actually read where I send stuff to, well, anyway.
>
> Suse was bought by Novell a while back as you probably know, but as far as I
> know the Suse team still is located in Nuernberg over here in Germany.
> They're programmers/geeks whichever you prefer to call it, not lawyers.
> So chances are they didn't know about this either when they started out, but
> considering that Yast was closed source for a while they probably found out
> soon.
>
>
> Am 02.03.2009 um 09:28 schrieb Bernt Hansson:
>
>> Julian Wissmann skrev:
>>>
>>> An EULA actually in nearly all European Countries and probably most
>>> other countries in the World is not binding.
>>
>> That's my point. An EULA is just, that. An EULA.
>>
>>> Even in the US it is not
>>> quite clear if an EULA is a valid license agreement.
>>
>> Can't comment on that.
>>
>>> Also EULAs and
>>> many Licenses actually only apply to US Law, so basically they're not
>>> worth anything anywhere else.
>>
>> Yes. US law apply to us only.
>>
>>> You couldn't enforce a GPL in Germany or
>>> some other european countries for example, because it is built atop
>>> another legal system with different ideas of how things work.
>>
>> Interesting! Suse comes to mind, but is suse linux still based in germany?
>>
>>> Same
>>> thing applies to EULAs. I read a very interesting article on German iX
>>> magazine recently wich was covering this. Don't have access to it
>>> right now though cause I'm on a trip home, so I can't really say much
>>> more about it, but if you want specific details I can post them in a
>>> bout a week.
>>
>> Take your time. This kind of discussion's come and go.
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Am 28.02.2009 um 22:29 schrieb Bernt Hansson:
>>>
 Chris Rees skrev:
>
> 2009/2/28 Bernt Hansson :
>>
>> Lord Blackadder skrev:
>>>
>>> Bernt Hansson wrote:

 Sean Cavanaugh skrev:
>>>
>>> I'm sorry to disappoint you, Bernt, but under Swedish law any
>>> kind of
>>> agreement is legally binding. Even just a handshake.
>>
>> Yes. But clicking yes or no is not a handshake or oral agreement
>> acording to Swedish law.

> Again, back it up? You're just expecting us to believe your
> interpretation of the law.

 Who's interpretation are you in comfort with? Your own? Sombody
 else, a
 lawyer? A pornstar?
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Varning! E-post till och från Sverige, eller som passerar servrar i
>> Sverige, avlyssnas av Försvarets Radioanstalt, FRA.
>>
>> WARNING! E-mail to and from Sweden, or via servers in Sweden, is
>> monitored by the National Defence Radio Establishment.
>
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In all fairness, you are posting on a mailing list about software
originating in the US, written in English, with the original post
being a guy from India, and the disputed one being made from a guy in
Spain. How is Swedish law relevant to this discussion, whether it says
what you claim or not?

Chris
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Re: Ports on Macbook

[Julian Wissmann]

Oh, that didn't go to the list, did it.
I should actually read where I send stuff to, well, anyway.

Suse was bought by Novell a while back as you probably know, but as  
far as I know the Suse team still is located in Nuernberg over here in  
Germany.

They're programmers/geeks whichever you prefer to call it, not lawyers.
So chances are they didn't know about this either when they started  
out, but considering that Yast was closed source for a while they  
probably found out soon.



Am 02.03.2009 um 09:28 schrieb Bernt Hansson:


Julian Wissmann skrev:

An EULA actually in nearly all European Countries and probably most
other countries in the World is not binding.


That's my point. An EULA is just, that. An EULA.


Even in the US it is not
quite clear if an EULA is a valid license agreement.


Can't comment on that.


Also EULAs and
many Licenses actually only apply to US Law, so basically they're not
worth anything anywhere else.


Yes. US law apply to us only.


You couldn't enforce a GPL in Germany or
some other european countries for example, because it is built atop
another legal system with different ideas of how things work.


Interesting! Suse comes to mind, but is suse linux still based in  
germany?



Same
thing applies to EULAs. I read a very interesting article on German  
iX

magazine recently wich was covering this. Don't have access to it
right now though cause I'm on a trip home, so I can't really say much
more about it, but if you want specific details I can post them in a
bout a week.


Take your time. This kind of discussion's come and go.





Am 28.02.2009 um 22:29 schrieb Bernt Hansson:


Chris Rees skrev:

2009/2/28 Bernt Hansson :

Lord Blackadder skrev:

Bernt Hansson wrote:

Sean Cavanaugh skrev:

I'm sorry to disappoint you, Bernt, but under Swedish law any
kind of
agreement is legally binding. Even just a handshake.

Yes. But clicking yes or no is not a handshake or oral agreement
acording to Swedish law.



Again, back it up? You're just expecting us to believe your
interpretation of the law.

Who's interpretation are you in comfort with? Your own? Sombody
else, a
lawyer? A pornstar?
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Varning! E-post till och från Sverige, eller som passerar servrar i
Sverige, avlyssnas av Försvarets Radioanstalt, FRA.

WARNING! E-mail to and from Sweden, or via servers in Sweden, is
monitored by the National Defence Radio Establishment.


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Re: Ports on Macbook

[FBSD UG]

On 1 mrt 2009, at 07:37, Charles Oppermann wrote:

That depends on where you are domiciled. Under certain scenarios,  
simply
open the box, or installing the software constitutes acceptance of  
the

EULA.


Yes I'm aware of that, but that kind of agreement isn't valid in  
Sweden.


That would be tantamount to allowing software piracy in Sweden.  The  
Mac OS X

license agreements are contained in a PDF file here:

http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/macosx105.pdf

There is a Swedish language agreement for sales in Sweden.  Using on- 
line
translation tools, it appears to be similar to what's already been  
stated;
use of the software consistutes acceptance of the agreement.  If you  
do not
agree, you are requested to return the software.  Presumably, the  
retail
materials contain this agreement, and I'm sure there is digital copy  
that is

presented and must be agreed to before use.

I'm sure that Apple has very good lawyers who drafted the license  
agreements
and are aware of Swedish law.  While what you are doing may or may  
not be in
violation of any licenses, your position that "clicking yes or no is  
not a

handshake or oral agreement acording to Swedish law" seems dubious and
ill-advised.

Consider what you're suggesting:  If EULA's and license agreements  
simply

weren't valid in Sweden, then what would prevent massive piracy from
occuring?  I would assume that if license agreements in Sweden weren't
enforcable, someone would be setting up their own software copying  
business.


...and if that happened, I would expect software companies to change  
their

license agreements in order to prevent it.


If you are under 18 you can't make any
legally binding agreements without your legal guardians permission.


That might be true, but at least in the United States, parents or  
guardians

are usually held responsible.
___


it's probably why this is happening in Sweden:
http://www.ukfast.co.uk/internet-news/pirate-bay-court-case-starts.html
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Re: Ports on Macbook

[FBSD UG]

On 28 feb 2009, at 17:26, Bernt Hansson wrote:


Sean Cavanaugh said the following on 2009-02-28 16:25:

-
From: "Bernt Hansson" 
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 9:32 AM
To: "FBSD UG" 
Cc: "freebsd-questions" 
Subject: Re: Ports on Macbook

FBSD UG said the following on 2009-02-28 10:50:


On 27 feb 2009, at 13:39, Sergio de Almeida Lenzi wrote:


Em Sex, 2009-02-27 às 14:45 +0300, z...@zaa.pp.ru escreveu:

On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 03:04:09PM +0530, Nataraj S Narayan  
wrote:

Hi

I hear that Mac OS X and later ones are based on FreeBSD. My  
wife is

planning to get a Macbook , which I don't quite approve. Mainly
because we need to pay for any upgrade or new add ons.



Hello...


I use a free version of the Leopard based on darwin (freebsd6)  
named

"hackintosh"  it is the google,
it is free, and just works...

You can even buy a "standard" notebook, and install.  I will  
transform

the notebook in an
apple leopard 10.


Tha's, ehm, quite illegal to say the least...


Of course it isn't illegal. You can run any system you like on  
your own hardware.
unless you actually READ the licensing on OSX that says It can only  
be installed on apple brand hardware


It doesn't really matter much what they say in their eula. If i  
bought a copy then i can do/install whatever I want since there  
isn't any agreement between apple and me. For the agreement to be  
binding I must sign a contract with apple.




You're not buying the software, you buy a license to use it on one  
Apple computer.


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Re: Ports on Macbook

[Chris Rees]

2009/3/1 Bernt Hansson :
>
> Charles Oppermann skrev:
 That depends on where you are domiciled. Under certain scenarios, simply
 open the box, or installing the software constitutes acceptance of the
 EULA.
>>> Yes I'm aware of that, but that kind of agreement isn't valid in Sweden.
>>
>
> http://www.google.se/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&channel=s&hl=sv&q=%22Negativ+avtalsbindning%22&meta=&btnG=Google-s%C3%B6kning
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Ordering software then breaking the seal on a software packaging is
not a negative contract agreement. The customer ordering the product
requested the contract. How is this even relevant?

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Re: Ports on Macbook

[Adam Vande More]

Charles Oppermann wrote:

That depends on where you are domiciled. Under certain scenarios, simply
open the box, or installing the software constitutes acceptance of the
EULA.
  

Yes I'm aware of that, but that kind of agreement isn't valid in Sweden.



That would be tantamount to allowing software piracy in Sweden.  The Mac OS X 
license agreements are contained in a PDF file here:


http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/macosx105.pdf

There is a Swedish language agreement for sales in Sweden.  Using on-line 
translation tools, it appears to be similar to what's already been stated; 
use of the software consistutes acceptance of the agreement.  If you do not 
agree, you are requested to return the software.  Presumably, the retail 
materials contain this agreement, and I'm sure there is digital copy that is 
presented and must be agreed to before use.


I'm sure that Apple has very good lawyers who drafted the license agreements 
and are aware of Swedish law.  While what you are doing may or may not be in 
violation of any licenses, your position that "clicking yes or no is not a 
handshake or oral agreement acording to Swedish law" seems dubious and 
ill-advised.


Consider what you're suggesting:  If EULA's and license agreements simply 
weren't valid in Sweden, then what would prevent massive piracy from 
occuring?  I would assume that if license agreements in Sweden weren't 
enforcable, someone would be setting up their own software copying business.


...and if that happened, I would expect software companies to change their 
license agreements in order to prevent it.  

  
If you are under 18 you can't make any 
legally binding agreements without your legal guardians permission.

This list is great for many reasons.  This thread is not one of them.  
Trying to convince people to use Hackintosh is about as ridiculous as 
using on-line translation tool to deliver a rendition on Swedish law.


Surely there is a better forum to debate this?  Like off-list...
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Re: Ports on Macbook

[Charles Oppermann]

> > That depends on where you are domiciled. Under certain scenarios, simply
> > open the box, or installing the software constitutes acceptance of the
> > EULA.
>
> Yes I'm aware of that, but that kind of agreement isn't valid in Sweden.

That would be tantamount to allowing software piracy in Sweden.  The Mac OS X 
license agreements are contained in a PDF file here:

http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/macosx105.pdf

There is a Swedish language agreement for sales in Sweden.  Using on-line 
translation tools, it appears to be similar to what's already been stated; 
use of the software consistutes acceptance of the agreement.  If you do not 
agree, you are requested to return the software.  Presumably, the retail 
materials contain this agreement, and I'm sure there is digital copy that is 
presented and must be agreed to before use.

I'm sure that Apple has very good lawyers who drafted the license agreements 
and are aware of Swedish law.  While what you are doing may or may not be in 
violation of any licenses, your position that "clicking yes or no is not a 
handshake or oral agreement acording to Swedish law" seems dubious and 
ill-advised.

Consider what you're suggesting:  If EULA's and license agreements simply 
weren't valid in Sweden, then what would prevent massive piracy from 
occuring?  I would assume that if license agreements in Sweden weren't 
enforcable, someone would be setting up their own software copying business.

...and if that happened, I would expect software companies to change their 
license agreements in order to prevent it.  

> If you are under 18 you can't make any 
> legally binding agreements without your legal guardians permission.

That might be true, but at least in the United States, parents or guardians 
are usually held responsible.
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Re: Ports on Macbook

[Polytropon]

I don#t want to interrupt. I just like to say that this kind of
discussion already took place.

On Sat, 28 Feb 2009 17:45:45 -0800, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote:
> Does someone who simply clicks
> "yes", without actually reading the license first, have "knowledge
> of the relationship"?

"Can Your Cat Agree to an EULA?"
http://www.osnews.com/comments/21010



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Re: Ports on Macbook

[perryh]

Chris Rees  wrote:

> That passage says that any agreement with the knowledge of the
> relationship in good faith is valid.
>
> Where does it mention the difference between a click-through
> licence and an oral agreement?

With apologies to a certain former U.S. President, that may depend
on the definitions of the terms.  Does someone who simply clicks
"yes", without actually reading the license first, have "knowledge
of the relationship"?  Does someone who clicks "yes", while having
no intention to comply with the terms, act "in good faith"?

For that matter, does Apple -- having never met the "clicker" in
person or even on line -- have "knowledge of the relationship"?

> Though a test case would be nice. Has anyone been lunatic
> enough to try taking it to court?

Given the nature of the situation, I'd think the only party likely
to take it to court would be Apple.  You seem to be saying that
they would be crazy to do so.  I suspect the OP would agree :)

> Otherwise a clicked "Yes" counts as an agreement made in good faith.

Are you qualified to give legal advice concerning Swedish law?

I am not, but I would guess that you could well be right *if* Sweden
has adopted something similar to DMCA; otherwise I am not so sure.
(I don't suppose the U.S. would have adopted DMCA unless it had been
thought to produce substantially different results than the previous
copyright law.)
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Re: Ports on Macbook

[Jerry]

On Sat, 28 Feb 2009 17:26:57 +0100
Bernt Hansson  wrote:

[snip]

>It doesn't really matter much what they say in their eula. If i bought
>a copy then i can do/install whatever I want since there isn't any 
>agreement between apple and me. For the agreement to be binding I must 
>sign a contract with apple.

That depends on where you are domiciled. Under certain scenarios, simply
open the box, or installing the software constitutes acceptance of the
EULA.

-- 
Jerry
ges...@yahoo.com

According to my best recollection, I don't remember.

Vincent "Jimmy Blue Eyes" Alo


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Description: PGP signature

Re: Ports on Macbook

[Chris Rees]

2009/2/28 Bernt Hansson :
> Chris Rees skrev:
>> 2009/2/28 Bernt Hansson :
>>> Lord Blackadder skrev:
 Bernt Hansson wrote:
> Sean Cavanaugh skrev:
>
 I'm sorry to disappoint you, Bernt, but under Swedish law any kind of
 agreement is legally binding. Even just a handshake.
>
>>> Yes. But clicking yes or no is not a handshake or oral agreement
>>> acording to Swedish law.
>
>
>> Again, back it up? You're just expecting us to believe your
>> interpretation of the law.
>
> Who's interpretation are you in comfort with? Your own? Sombody else, a
> lawyer? A pornstar?
>

That passage says that any agreement with the knowledge of the
relationship in good faith is valid.

Where does it mention the difference between a click-through licence
and an oral agreement? I'm getting bored of your deflection, and I'm
sure everyone else is.

Though a test case would be nice. Has anyone been lunatic enough to
try taking it to court? Otherwise a clicked "Yes" counts as an
agreement made in good faith.

Chris
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Re: Ports on Macbook

[Chris Rees]

2009/2/28 Bernt Hansson :
> Chris Rees skrev:
>>> NO. I'm not in any way binded by that eula. Those kind of non agreements
>>> is not legaly binding in Sweden. I MUST SIGN AN AGREEMENT to be binded
>>> by it.
>>
>> That.
>
> OK.
>
> http://www.marknadsdomstolen.se/
>

I can't find anything on that site referring to that. I'm off now
anyway, perhaps I'll reply in the morning if there's any real proof.

Chris

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Re: Ports on Macbook

[Chris Rees]

2009/2/28 Bernt Hansson :
> Lord Blackadder skrev:
>> Bernt Hansson wrote:
>>> Sean Cavanaugh skrev:
>>>> --
>>>> From: "Bernt Hansson" 
>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 11:26 AM
>>>> To: "Sean Cavanaugh" 
>>>> Cc: "freebsd-questions" 
>>>> Subject: Re: Ports on Macbook
>>>>
>>>>> Sean Cavanaugh said the following on 2009-02-28 16:25:
>>>>>> ---------
>>>>>> From: "Bernt Hansson" 
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 9:32 AM
>>>>>> To: "FBSD UG" 
>>>>>> Cc: "freebsd-questions" 
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Ports on Macbook
>>>> read the license.
>>>>
>>>> "PLEASE READ THIS SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT ("LICENSE") CAREFULLY BEFORE
>>>> USING THE SOFTWARE. BY USING THE SOFTWARE, YOU ARE AGREEING TO BE BOUND BY
>>>> THE TERMS OF THIS LICENSE."
>>> NO. I'm not in any way binded by that eula. Those kind of non agreements
>>> is not legaly binding in Sweden. I MUST SIGN AN AGREEMENT to be binded
>>> by it.
>>>
>>>> http://www.apple.com/legal/sla/macosx.html
>>> They can write whatever they want. I'm not binded by it.
>>>
>> I'm sorry to disappoint you, Bernt, but under Swedish law any kind of
>> agreement is legally binding. Even just a handshake.
>
> Yes. But clicking yes or no is not a handshake or oral agreement
> acording to Swedish law.
>
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>

Again, back it up? You're just expecting us to believe your
interpretation of the law.

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Re: Ports on Macbook

[Chris Rees]

> NO. I'm not in any way binded by that eula. Those kind of non agreements
> is not legaly binding in Sweden. I MUST SIGN AN AGREEMENT to be binded
> by it.

That.
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Re: Ports on Macbook

[Chris Rees]

2009/2/28 Bernt Hansson :
> Sean Cavanaugh skrev:
>> --
>> From: "Bernt Hansson" 
>> Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 11:26 AM
>> To: "Sean Cavanaugh" 
>> Cc: "freebsd-questions" 
>> Subject: Re: Ports on Macbook
>>
>>> Sean Cavanaugh said the following on 2009-02-28 16:25:
>>>> -
>>>> From: "Bernt Hansson" 
>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 9:32 AM
>>>> To: "FBSD UG" 
>>>> Cc: "freebsd-questions" 
>>>> Subject: Re: Ports on Macbook
>>>
>>
>
>> read the license.
>>
>> "PLEASE READ THIS SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT ("LICENSE") CAREFULLY BEFORE
>> USING THE SOFTWARE. BY USING THE SOFTWARE, YOU ARE AGREEING TO BE BOUND BY
>> THE TERMS OF THIS LICENSE."
>
> NO. I'm not in any way binded by that eula. Those kind of non agreements
> is not legaly binding in Sweden. I MUST SIGN AN AGREEMENT to be binded
> by it.
>
>> http://www.apple.com/legal/sla/macosx.html
>
> They can write whatever they want. I'm not binded by it.
>
> --
> Varning! E-post till och från Sverige, eller som passerar servrar i
> Sverige, avlyssnas av Försvarets Radioanstalt, FRA.
>
> WARNING! E-mail to and from Sweden, or via servers in Sweden, is
> monitored by the National Defence Radio Establishment.
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>

Care to back that up?

Chris

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Re: Ports on Macbook

[Sean Cavanaugh]

--
From: "Bernt Hansson" 
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 11:26 AM
To: "Sean Cavanaugh" 
Cc: "freebsd-questions" 
Subject: Re: Ports on Macbook


Sean Cavanaugh said the following on 2009-02-28 16:25:

-
From: "Bernt Hansson" 
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 9:32 AM
To: "FBSD UG" 
Cc: "freebsd-questions" 
Subject: Re: Ports on Macbook


FBSD UG said the following on 2009-02-28 10:50:


On 27 feb 2009, at 13:39, Sergio de Almeida Lenzi wrote:


Em Sex, 2009-02-27 às 14:45 +0300, z...@zaa.pp.ru escreveu:


On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 03:04:09PM +0530, Nataraj S Narayan wrote:

Hi

I hear that Mac OS X and later ones are based on FreeBSD. My wife is
planning to get a Macbook , which I don't quite approve. Mainly
because we need to pay for any upgrade or new add ons.



Hello...


I use a free version of the Leopard based on darwin (freebsd6) named
"hackintosh"  it is the google,
it is free, and just works...

You can even buy a "standard" notebook, and install.  I will transform
the notebook in an
apple leopard 10.


Tha's, ehm, quite illegal to say the least...


Of course it isn't illegal. You can run any system you like on your own 
hardware.



unless you actually READ the licensing on OSX that says It can only be 
installed on apple brand hardware


It doesn't really matter much what they say in their eula. If i bought a 
copy then i can do/install whatever I want since there isn't any agreement 
between apple and me. For the agreement to be binding I must sign a 
contract with apple.




read the license.

"PLEASE READ THIS SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT ("LICENSE") CAREFULLY BEFORE 
USING THE SOFTWARE. BY USING THE SOFTWARE, YOU ARE AGREEING TO BE BOUND BY 
THE TERMS OF THIS LICENSE."
http://www.apple.com/legal/sla/macosx.html 


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Re: Ports on Macbook

[Bernt Hansson]

Sean Cavanaugh said the following on 2009-02-28 16:25:

-
From: "Bernt Hansson" 
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 9:32 AM
To: "FBSD UG" 
Cc: "freebsd-questions" 
Subject: Re: Ports on Macbook


FBSD UG said the following on 2009-02-28 10:50:


On 27 feb 2009, at 13:39, Sergio de Almeida Lenzi wrote:


Em Sex, 2009-02-27 às 14:45 +0300, z...@zaa.pp.ru escreveu:


On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 03:04:09PM +0530, Nataraj S Narayan wrote:

Hi

I hear that Mac OS X and later ones are based on FreeBSD. My wife is
planning to get a Macbook , which I don't quite approve. Mainly
because we need to pay for any upgrade or new add ons.



Hello...


I use a free version of the Leopard based on darwin (freebsd6) named
"hackintosh"  it is the google,
it is free, and just works...

You can even buy a "standard" notebook, and install.  I will transform
the notebook in an
apple leopard 10.


Tha's, ehm, quite illegal to say the least...


Of course it isn't illegal. You can run any system you like on your 
own hardware.



unless you actually READ the licensing on OSX that says It can only be 
installed on apple brand hardware


It doesn't really matter much what they say in their eula. If i bought a 
copy then i can do/install whatever I want since there isn't any 
agreement between apple and me. For the agreement to be binding I must 
sign a contract with apple.

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Re: Ports on Macbook

[Sean Cavanaugh]

-
From: "Bernt Hansson" 
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 9:32 AM
To: "FBSD UG" 
Cc: "freebsd-questions" 
Subject: Re: Ports on Macbook


FBSD UG said the following on 2009-02-28 10:50:


On 27 feb 2009, at 13:39, Sergio de Almeida Lenzi wrote:


Em Sex, 2009-02-27 às 14:45 +0300, z...@zaa.pp.ru escreveu:


On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 03:04:09PM +0530, Nataraj S Narayan wrote:

Hi

I hear that Mac OS X and later ones are based on FreeBSD. My wife is
planning to get a Macbook , which I don't quite approve. Mainly
because we need to pay for any upgrade or new add ons.



Hello...


I use a free version of the Leopard based on darwin (freebsd6) named
"hackintosh"  it is the google,
it is free, and just works...

You can even buy a "standard" notebook, and install.  I will transform
the notebook in an
apple leopard 10.


Tha's, ehm, quite illegal to say the least...


Of course it isn't illegal. You can run any system you like on your own 
hardware.



unless you actually READ the licensing on OSX that says It can only be 
installed on apple brand hardware 


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Re: Ports on Macbook

[Sean Cavanaugh]

--
From: "Chris Rees" 
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 9:31 AM
To: "Sergio de Almeida Lenzi" 
Cc: "FreeBSD Mailing List" ; "FreeBSD Mailing 
List" 

Subject: Re: Ports on Macbook


2009/2/27 Sergio de Almeida Lenzi :

Em Sex, 2009-02-27 às 14:45 +0300, z...@zaa.pp.ru escreveu:


On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 03:04:09PM +0530, Nataraj S Narayan wrote:
> Hi
>
> I hear that Mac OS X and later ones are based on FreeBSD. My wife is
> planning to get a Macbook , which I don't quite approve. Mainly
> because we need to pay for any upgrade or new add ons.



for simple clarification. OSX is built on top of Darwin which is BASED on 
FreeBSD, but is not BSD. its BSD code built on top of the Mach kernel.
Ports are just the source code for the programs yer looking for anyway so 
there's nothing stopping you from doing stuff like installing OpenOffice or 
Gimp under OSX.
I've seen people replace the Quartz interface with Gnome before.  overall Im 
with you in abstaining from anything with the name "apple" attached to it 
since its all overpriced underpowered crap. 


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Re: Ports on Macbook

[Bernt Hansson]

FBSD UG said the following on 2009-02-28 10:50:


On 27 feb 2009, at 13:39, Sergio de Almeida Lenzi wrote:


Em Sex, 2009-02-27 às 14:45 +0300, z...@zaa.pp.ru escreveu:


On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 03:04:09PM +0530, Nataraj S Narayan wrote:

Hi

I hear that Mac OS X and later ones are based on FreeBSD. My wife is
planning to get a Macbook , which I don't quite approve. Mainly
because we need to pay for any upgrade or new add ons.



Hello...


I use a free version of the Leopard based on darwin (freebsd6) named
"hackintosh"  it is the google,
it is free, and just works...

You can even buy a "standard" notebook, and install.  I will transform
the notebook in an
apple leopard 10.


Tha's, ehm, quite illegal to say the 
least...


Of course it isn't illegal. You can run any system you like on your own 
hardware.

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Re: Ports on Macbook

[Chris Rees]

2009/2/27 Sergio de Almeida Lenzi :
> Em Sex, 2009-02-27 às 14:45 +0300, z...@zaa.pp.ru escreveu:
>
>> On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 03:04:09PM +0530, Nataraj S Narayan wrote:
>> > Hi
>> >
>> > I hear that Mac OS X and later ones are based on FreeBSD. My wife is
>> > planning to get a Macbook , which I don't quite approve. Mainly
>> > because we need to pay for any upgrade or new add ons.
>
>
> Hello...
>
>
> I use a free version of the Leopard based on darwin (freebsd6) named
> "hackintosh"  it is the google,
> it is free, and just works...
>
> You can even buy a "standard" notebook, and install.  I will transform
> the notebook in an
> apple leopard 10.
>
> It is a DVD of 4Gb..
>
>
> Sergio
>


Not only is that not what the OP is asking for, you're making us look
like criminals. Save your warez talk for other places please.

Chris
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Re: Ports on Macbook

[FBSD UG]

On 27 feb 2009, at 13:39, Sergio de Almeida Lenzi wrote:


Em Sex, 2009-02-27 às 14:45 +0300, z...@zaa.pp.ru escreveu:


On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 03:04:09PM +0530, Nataraj S Narayan wrote:

Hi

I hear that Mac OS X and later ones are based on FreeBSD. My wife is
planning to get a Macbook , which I don't quite approve. Mainly
because we need to pay for any upgrade or new add ons.



Hello...


I use a free version of the Leopard based on darwin (freebsd6) named
"hackintosh"  it is the google,
it is free, and just works...

You can even buy a "standard" notebook, and install.  I will transform
the notebook in an
apple leopard 10.


Tha's, ehm, quite illegal to say the 
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Re: Ports on Macbook

[Sergio de Almeida Lenzi]

Em Sex, 2009-02-27 às 14:45 +0300, z...@zaa.pp.ru escreveu:

> On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 03:04:09PM +0530, Nataraj S Narayan wrote:
> > Hi
> > 
> > I hear that Mac OS X and later ones are based on FreeBSD. My wife is
> > planning to get a Macbook , which I don't quite approve. Mainly
> > because we need to pay for any upgrade or new add ons.


Hello...


I use a free version of the Leopard based on darwin (freebsd6) named
"hackintosh"  it is the google,
it is free, and just works... 

You can even buy a "standard" notebook, and install.  I will transform
the notebook in an
apple leopard 10.  

It is a DVD of 4Gb..


Sergio

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