Re: Backspace and Delete keys under PuTTY
Hi,
On Tue, 10 Dec 2002, Ryan Thompson wrote:
Jonathan Chen wrote to Adrian Penisoara:
On Tue, Dec 10, 2002 at 01:17:17PM +0200, Adrian Penisoara wrote:
[...]
But I have Bash as the default shell. And yes, it works changing
the Terminal / Keyboard / Backspace key from Contrl-? (127) to
Control-H, but the users are pissed off by the fact that Linux
doesn't need this -- does it mean FreeBSD has broken termcap
entries or that Linux is just stepping on the traditional
standards ?
It's Linux that's stepping on standards. Their default config is to
have erase=DEL. All other UNIX boxen I've used have erase=BACKASPCE.
I suspect the PUTTY writers have been heavily influenced by Linux.
Here's the explanation from the PuTTY's web documentation page[1]:
-
4.4.1 Changing the action of the Backspace key
Some terminals believe that the Backspace key should send the same thing
to the server as Control-H (ASCII code 8). Other terminals believe that
the Backspace key should send ASCII code 127 (usually known as
Control-?) so that it can be distinguished from Control-H. This option
allows you to choose which code PuTTY generates when you press
Backspace.
If you are connecting to a Unix system, you will probably find that the
Unix stty command lets you configure which the server expects to see, so
you might not need to change which one PuTTY generates. On other
systems, the server's expectation might be fixed and you might have no
choice but to configure PuTTY.
If you do have the choice, we recommend configuring PuTTY to generate
Control-? and configuring the server to expect it, because that allows
applications such as emacs to use Control-H for help.
--
Should all people go for this ?
Has anyone taken the time to really fine tune PuTTY's settings to work
well with FreeBSD and {n}curses apps? Somewhat ironically, the best
results I have received thus far are to use xterm-color and ^H for
erase. This works perfectly in tcsh/bash, but suffers somewhat in
curses or ncurses programs such as PINE or lpe. Results with these
settings vary depending on the application. PINE, for example, screams
Unknown Command when I try to use Home/End/Delete/ PgUp/PgDn. With
lpe, everything works except Home/End. Let me tell you, on a Dvorak
keyboard, the usual ^Q and ^R aren't exactly intuitive or convenient.
:-)
Once again, let's see PuTTY's sideview on their site[1]:
-
4.4.2 Changing the action of the Home and End keys
The Unix terminal emulator rxvt disagrees with the rest of the world
about what character sequences should be sent to the server by the Home
and End keys.
xterm, and other terminals, send ESC [1~ for the Home key, and ESC [4~
for the End key. rxvt sends ESC [H for the Home key and ESC [Ow for the
End key.
If you find an application on which the Home and End keys aren't
working, you could try switching this option to see if it helps.
On which side are we on ?
And for this matter let's see how the F? keys are standing on:
4.4.3 Changing the action of the function keys and keypad
This option affects the function keys (F1 to F12) and the top row of the
numeric keypad.
In the default mode, labelled ESC [n~, the function keys generate
sequences like ESC [11~, ESC [12~ and so on. This matches the general
behaviour of Digital's terminals.
In Linux mode, F6 to F12 behave just like the default mode, but F1 to F5
generate ESC [[A through to ESC [[E. This mimics the Linux virtual
console.
In Xterm R6 mode, F5 to F12 behave like the default mode, but F1 to F4
generate ESC OP through to ESC OS, which are the sequences produced by
the top row of the keypad on Digital's terminals.
In VT400 mode, all the function keys behave like the default mode, but
the actual top row of the numeric keypad generates ESC OP through to ESC
OS.
In VT100+ mode, the function keys generate ESC OP through to ESC O[
In SCO mode, the function keys F1 to F12 generate ESC [M through to ESC
[X. Together with shift, they generate ESC [Y through to ESC [j. With
control they generate ESC [k through to ESC [v, and with shift and
control together they generate ESC [w through to ESC [{.
If you don't know what any of this means, you probably don't need to
fiddle with it.
I know that I had problems with F10 in Midnight Commander in FreeBSD
connected through PuTTY...
[1] http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/docs.html
Ady (@freebsd.ady.ro)
| An age is called Dark not because the light fails to shine, but |
|
Re: Backspace and Delete keys under PuTTY
# [EMAIL PROTECTED] / 2002-12-11 11:04:09 +0200: On 2002-12-11 10:52, JacobRhoden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (Oh, and if you were writing an ssh client, would you default the settings to the standard, or to what works on all your machines *grin*) Neither. I'd make it easy to configure the client differently, instead :-) putty fits that bill, it just *defaults* to the linux behavior, and I believe that's what mr. JacobRhoden meant. the OP didn't want to have to do those two more clicks when saving settings for a *BSD box. -- If you cc me or remove the list(s) completely I'll most likely ignore your message.see http://www.eyrie.org./~eagle/faqs/questions.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message
Re: Backspace and Delete keys under PuTTY
On Tue, 10 Dec 2002, Adrian Penisoara wrote: What is the proper solution ? I'd rather prefer to modify the termcaps than making adjustments in PuTTY, as some persons get cranky when it comes about changing PuTTY settings while Linux works well with the defaults. proper way is to alter the putty settings for your connection to freebsd machines. Another way is changing the default shell to bash. Marcel To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message
Re: Backspace and Delete keys under PuTTY
Hi, On Tue, 10 Dec 2002, Marcel Stangenberger wrote: On Tue, 10 Dec 2002, Adrian Penisoara wrote: What is the proper solution ? I'd rather prefer to modify the termcaps than making adjustments in PuTTY, as some persons get cranky when it comes about changing PuTTY settings while Linux works well with the defaults. proper way is to alter the putty settings for your connection to freebsd machines. Another way is changing the default shell to bash. But I have Bash as the default shell. And yes, it works changing the Terminal / Keyboard / Backspace key from Contrl-? (127) to Control-H, but the users are pissed off by the fact that Linux doesn't need this -- does it mean FreeBSD has broken termcap entries or that Linux is just stepping on the traditional standards ? Ady (@freebsd.ady.ro) | An age is called Dark not because the light fails to shine, but | | because people refuse to see it. | | -- James Michener, Space | To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message
Re: Backspace and Delete keys under PuTTY
Quoth Adrian Penisoara on Tue, Dec 10, 2002 at 13:17:17 +0200 But I have Bash as the default shell. And yes, it works changing the Terminal / Keyboard / Backspace key from Contrl-? (127) to Control-H, but the users are pissed off by the fact that Linux doesn't need this -- does it mean FreeBSD has broken termcap entries or that Linux is just stepping on the traditional standards ? How about just adding this mapping in the global .bashrc and in .[t]cshrc in your FreeBSD box. It's not that hard and will be totaly transparent to your users since thier .*rc file should source the global one first. The same things used to happen between terminal on X11 on Linux. Eterm was notoriouse for it a few years ago. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -=*=- www.kierun.org PGP: 009D 7287 C4A7 FD4F 1680 06E4 F751 7006 9DE2 6318 IRC: nick kierun, server spod.uk.amiganet.org, channel #sanctus NNGS: nick kierun, server nngs.cosmic.org, port 9696. msg11624/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Backspace and Delete keys under PuTTY
On Tue, 10 Dec 2002, Adrian Penisoara wrote: Hi, On Tue, 10 Dec 2002, Marcel Stangenberger wrote: On Tue, 10 Dec 2002, Adrian Penisoara wrote: What is the proper solution ? I'd rather prefer to modify the termcaps than making adjustments in PuTTY, as some persons get cranky when it comes about changing PuTTY settings while Linux works well with the defaults. proper way is to alter the putty settings for your connection to freebsd machines. Another way is changing the default shell to bash. But I have Bash as the default shell. And yes, it works changing the Terminal / Keyboard / Backspace key from Contrl-? (127) to Control-H, but the users are pissed off by the fact that Linux doesn't need this -- does it mean FreeBSD has broken termcap entries or that Linux is just stepping on the traditional standards ? Since solaris has the same problem i suspect that linux is stepping on the standards. Marcel -- I have often regretted my speech, never my silence. - Xenocrates (396-314 B.C.) To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message
Re: Backspace and Delete keys under PuTTY
# [EMAIL PROTECTED] / 2002-12-10 11:59:53 +0200: I'm getting pissed (me and some other professors) by the Backspace and Delete keystrokes that are incorrectly handled by either PuTTY or FreeBSD when connecting to a FreeBSD system from a Windows workstation with PuTTY. No need to mention that when it comes to Linux everything looks fine. different terminals use different values for backspace/delete. linux console uses ^? for backspace, ^[[~3 for delete, while freebsd uses ^H for backspace, and ^? for delete. putty assumes linux, so it defaults to the codes linux terminal expects. if you check the xterm definition in /etc/termcap, you'll see that it defines kb=^H and kD=^?. putty claims to be xterm (Connection - Terminal type string), so it is the liar here. What is the proper solution? IMO: fixing the terminal, in this case: putty. I'd rather prefer to modify the termcaps than making adjustments in PuTTY, as some persons get cranky when it comes about changing PuTTY settings while Linux works well with the defaults. IIRC this setting is session-wide, so you can have ^? / ^[[~3 for linux, and ^H / ^? for freebsd. -- If you cc me or remove the list(s) completely I'll most likely ignore your message.see http://www.eyrie.org./~eagle/faqs/questions.html To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message
Re: Backspace and Delete keys under PuTTY
putty on win to freebsd works ok for me, except for bitchx, so I just set term=vt102 prior to firing up BitchX. My shell is tcsh. Brian - Original Message - From: Adrian Penisoara [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Marcel Stangenberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 3:17 AM Subject: Re: Backspace and Delete keys under PuTTY Hi, On Tue, 10 Dec 2002, Marcel Stangenberger wrote: On Tue, 10 Dec 2002, Adrian Penisoara wrote: What is the proper solution ? I'd rather prefer to modify the termcaps than making adjustments in PuTTY, as some persons get cranky when it comes about changing PuTTY settings while Linux works well with the defaults. proper way is to alter the putty settings for your connection to freebsd machines. Another way is changing the default shell to bash. But I have Bash as the default shell. And yes, it works changing the Terminal / Keyboard / Backspace key from Contrl-? (127) to Control-H, but the users are pissed off by the fact that Linux doesn't need this -- does it mean FreeBSD has broken termcap entries or that Linux is just stepping on the traditional standards ? Ady (@freebsd.ady.ro) | An age is called Dark not because the light fails to shine, but | | because people refuse to see it. | | -- James Michener, Space | To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message
Re: Backspace and Delete keys under PuTTY
On Tue, Dec 10, 2002 at 01:17:17PM +0200, Adrian Penisoara wrote: [...] But I have Bash as the default shell. And yes, it works changing the Terminal / Keyboard / Backspace key from Contrl-? (127) to Control-H, but the users are pissed off by the fact that Linux doesn't need this -- does it mean FreeBSD has broken termcap entries or that Linux is just stepping on the traditional standards ? It's Linux that's stepping on standards. Their default config is to have erase=DEL. All other UNIX boxen I've used have erase=BACKASPCE. I suspect the PUTTY writers have been heavily influenced by Linux. Cheers. -- Jonathan Chen [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- A person should be able to do a small bit of everything, specialisation is for insects To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message
Re: Backspace and Delete keys under PuTTY
Am Dienstag den, 10. Dezember 2002, um 20:46, schrieb Jonathan Chen: On Tue, Dec 10, 2002 at 01:17:17PM +0200, Adrian Penisoara wrote: [...] But I have Bash as the default shell. And yes, it works changing the Terminal / Keyboard / Backspace key from Contrl-? (127) to Control-H, but the users are pissed off by the fact that Linux doesn't need this -- does it mean FreeBSD has broken termcap entries or that Linux is just stepping on the traditional standards ? It's Linux that's stepping on standards. Their default config is to have erase=DEL. All other UNIX boxen I've used have erase=BACKASPCE. I suspect the PUTTY writers have been heavily influenced by Linux. Hi Adrian, it is not only for FreeBSD and Solaris but for Reliant Unix and HP-UX too. As Jonathan said - Linux doesn't behave like the others. I hope that helps with your boss. Marc To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message
Re: Backspace and Delete keys under PuTTY
On Wed, 11 Dec 2002 10:52:40 +1100 JacobRhoden [EMAIL PROTECTED](by way of JacobRhoden [EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Wed, 11 Dec 2002 06:46, Jonathan Chen wrote: It's Linux that's stepping on standards. Their default config is to have erase=DEL. All other UNIX boxen I've used have erase=BACKASPCE. I suspect the PUTTY writers have been heavily influenced by Linux. I myself am going insane in an environment where every second box requires a different setting (rgh!! and stuff). Is there a way to override the local settings on the Linux/Solaris/etc... ? (Oh, and if you were writing an ssh client, would you default the settings to the standard, or to what works on all your machines *grin*) Jacob RhodenPhone: +61 3 8344 6102 ITS DivisionEmail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Melbourne University Mobile: +61 403 788 386 To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message This is the main reason I quit using PuttyI keep it around for emergencies, but I regularly I use the ssh client from ssh.com, a little bigger, but works much better. ---Peter--- To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message
