Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
On Wed, Mar 02, 2005 at 03:27:09AM -0800, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: snip Also one other thing that is important - if you don't get an answer within a week or so, ask again, politely. How do I ask after the second post with no reply? On bended knee? Just keep asking periodically. Or, you could e-mail the developer of the SCSI device driver directly, it's not hard to read the source and see who it is, and their e-mail addresses are on the FreeBSD website. Actually, I've found lately that a good irc chatroom can help with some problems that ppl may just ignore on a mailing list. I've been hanging out in #freebsd and #netbsd on irc.freenode.net. Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- I sense much NT in you. NT leads to Bluescreen. Bluescreen leads to downtime. Downtime leads to suffering. NT is the path to the darkside. Powerful Unix is. Public Key: ftp://ftp.tallye.com/pub/lorenl_pubkey.asc Fingerprint: CEE1 AAE2 F66C 59B5 34CA C415 6D35 E847 0118 A3D2 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Anthony Atkielski Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 9:09 PM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere? Ted Mittelstaedt writes: The AIC7880 stuff is in the good category of stuff from Adaptec, not the junk category. Well, that's nice to hear. I guess my $9000 wasn't entirely wasted. The people that can answer questions don't always respond. Remember what I said about problems with FreeBSD support for mission-critical and large-scale deployments? You get what you pay for. If you want a response immediately then pay money to one of the many FreeBSD consultants/contractors. I'll make you a deal, even - if you guarentee to pay me the same rate that Microsoft charges for tech support on their products ($35 an incident) I will personally provide you with an answer to any question you want to ask - at the $35 per question rate, of course, and with the exact same disclaimers that Microsoft gives you for their $35 incidents. Oh and I almost forgot - since it's the same terms as the Microsoft support, that means you have to buy the copy of FreeBSD from me - and I think my going rate on that is the same as Windows Server, which is something like $800 a copy. ;-) (you have after all said FreeBSD isn't a desktop OS) ;-) Also, I don't generally answer questions that I have to do a lot of digging on because the questioner didn't put in enough data. Such as your SCSI question. You posted the dmesg but you still haven't posted the model of HP server. I thought I had. HP Vectra XU 6/200 D4352N/ABF. This is assuming you are mixing interfaces, which is still to be determined. I'm not. Also one other thing that is important - if you don't get an answer within a week or so, ask again, politely. How do I ask after the second post with no reply? On bended knee? Just keep asking periodically. Or, you could e-mail the developer of the SCSI device driver directly, it's not hard to read the source and see who it is, and their e-mail addresses are on the FreeBSD website. Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
On Wed, 2005-03-02 at 06:08 +0100, Anthony Atkielski wrote: Ted Mittelstaedt writes: The AIC7880 stuff is in the good category of stuff from Adaptec, not the junk category. Well, that's nice to hear. I guess my $9000 wasn't entirely wasted. The people that can answer questions don't always respond. Remember what I said about problems with FreeBSD support for mission-critical and large-scale deployments? This is a voluntary mailing list. If you want FreeBSD support, pay for it - a number of companies provide it. There's no difference here between operating systems: there are volunteer forums for BSD, Linux, Mac, Windows. And then there's paid support. Businesses that want support for their operating systems (who don't support their IT deployments internally), buy that support. That's how a lot of the contributors here make a living. But this list is NOT paid support. [...] Also one other thing that is important - if you don't get an answer within a week or so, ask again, politely. How do I ask after the second post with no reply? On bended knee? Nobody here has any obligation to give you the time of day, let alone help. Taking the line that other subscribers here somehow owe you a living will alienate some of the people who might otherwise help you. Of course, you're can do that if you want. Peter. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Anthony Atkielski Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 8:53 PM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere? Ted Mittelstaedt writes: It appears you have a narrow-SCSI max 10MB sync disk drive and a ultra -3 20MB sync disk drive on the same adapter card. Such a combination is iffy at best. The configuration was the one recommended by HP. I bought the second drive from HP directly. They both have the same type of SCSI interface, approved by HP. HP didn't manufacture either of the drives nor the SCSI controller so why would you think that they know what they are talking about? HP does the same thing Compaq does (now really the same since they are the same company) they buy off-the-shelf parts from other manufacturers and bundle them together into systems that they sell. Dell, Gateway and all the rest of them do the same thing. A very few of their products (like the Vectra XU 6/200 that you have) they do design the motherboards, but that's it. And of course they design the sheetmetal. But for the motherboards in most of their stuff they get OEMs to make them for them. And despite all the testing on occasion they screw up and release patches that patch around hardware problems. I'm tired of hearing why it's not FreeBSD's fault. When you can tell me exactly what theses messages mean, instead of guessing, let me know. Ok here goes: Feb 26 20:09:23 contactdish kernel: (da0:ahc0:0:0:0): Retrying Command Feb 26 20:09:23 contactdish kernel: (da0:ahc0:0:0:0): Request Requeued Feb 26 20:09:23 contactdish kernel: (da0:ahc0:0:0:0): Retrying Command This happens when the SCSI target disk0 stop answering commands from the SCSI adapter. Feb 26 20:09:26 contactdish kernel: (da1:ahc0:0:2:0): Retrying Command Feb 26 20:09:26 contactdish kernel: (da1:ahc0:0:2:0): Queue Full Feb 26 20:09:26 contactdish kernel: (da1:ahc0:0:2:0): Retrying Command Same thing as above just with the second disk. The usual problem is bad termination that causes this, because what happens with bad termination is that electrical noise causes one or more targets on the bus to receive a command that is garbage, that target shuts down and goes out of sync with the other initiators and targets on the bus, as soon as that happens all targets shut down. But it can also be caused by a device that isn't totally compliant with the standard interfering with another device on the bus (although this is rare) And it can also be caused by the adapter card driver sending a command to a target that the target doesen't understand or does not process properly, this can happen when during the probe on boot, a target responds saying it supports something, then really doesen't. IDE devices are infamous for this, claiming to support UDMA, PIO mode 4, and such when they really don't support them properly. Sometimes if the bus is left quiet, the devices can resync and things go on. Mostly though it almost always leads to the next thing that you have, here: eb 25 20:09:29 contactdish kernel: ahc0: Recovery Initiated Feb 25 20:09:29 contactdish kernel: Dump Card State Begins The driver for the SCSI adapter has finally given up trying to send commands to the adapter card your disks are tied to and has decided to just reset the card entirely, which resets the bus and all devices on it, which reestablishes sync. All the rest of the data that follows is a dump of the state of the card and the commands sent, and what queue entries are trashed so the operating system can pick up where it left off if the card comes back online. Feb 25 20:09:29 contactdish kernel: (da1:ahc0:0:2:0): SCB 0x49 - timed out Feb 25 20:09:29 contactdish kernel: sg[0] - Addr 0x1309b000 : Length 2048 Feb 25 20:09:29 contactdish kernel: (da1:ahc0:0:2:0): Queuing a BDR SCB Feb 25 20:09:29 contactdish kernel: ahc0: Timedout SCBs already complete. Interrupts may not be functioning. This is a bit significant, after the bus reset, the second disk (the Quantum) isn't answering. But it looks like it later on started responding since otherwise your system would probably have paniced. None of this though is any help here. You know what the problem is you just don't know what is causing it. The idea that a SCSI command sent to a disk by the adapter card causing this is unlikely, unless either the Seagate or Quantum models that you have are known rogues (and I didn't find that they are) it is much more likely a conflict on the SCSI bus. I'm not going to plug and unplug hardware all day based on your speculations, particularly since I know this hardware configuration works, and has worked for eight years. Well first of all I already told you to run your BIOS config and set the adapter to limit sync negotiation on the Quantum to 10Mb and see if that fixed it. That would not involve you removing stuff. Secondly, you don't know how
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
Ted Mittelstaedt writes: HP didn't manufacture either of the drives nor the SCSI controller so why would you think that they know what they are talking about? They rebranded the drives and took the top 10% or so of production batches (according to someone I knew on the inside). They also charged more for them. This happens when the SCSI target disk0 stop answering commands from the SCSI adapter. Feb 26 20:09:26 contactdish kernel: (da1:ahc0:0:2:0): Retrying Command Feb 26 20:09:26 contactdish kernel: (da1:ahc0:0:2:0): Queue Full Feb 26 20:09:26 contactdish kernel: (da1:ahc0:0:2:0): Retrying Command Same thing as above just with the second disk. So perhaps FreeBSD is issuing commands that the disk drives don't like. Incidentally, I've discovered that I can instantly generate similar messages by issuing smartctl -a /dev/da0 (or da1). The usual problem is bad termination that causes this, because what happens with bad termination is that electrical noise causes one or more targets on the bus to receive a command that is garbage, that target shuts down and goes out of sync with the other initiators and targets on the bus, as soon as that happens all targets shut down. I would have seen the same problem with Windows if that were the case. The hardware was the same, and the long delay (20-30 seconds) produced each time this happens would have been impossible to ignore. But it can also be caused by a device that isn't totally compliant with the standard interfering with another device on the bus (although this is rare) And it can also be caused by the adapter card driver sending a command to a target that the target doesen't understand or does not process properly, this can happen when during the probe on boot, a target responds saying it supports something, then really doesen't. IDE devices are infamous for this, claiming to support UDMA, PIO mode 4, and such when they really don't support them properly. Or perhaps FreeBSD doesn't understand that this particular (old) SCSI hardware can't understand every command it issues. The driver for the SCSI adapter has finally given up trying to send commands to the adapter card your disks are tied to and has decided to just reset the card entirely, which resets the bus and all devices on it, which reestablishes sync. That explains the long delay. This is a bit significant, after the bus reset, the second disk (the Quantum) isn't answering. But it looks like it later on started responding since otherwise your system would probably have paniced. I've experienced one or two panics, but most of the time it's just a long delay. I've seen no evidence of data corruption, although it's hard to be sure, of course. The idea that a SCSI command sent to a disk by the adapter card causing this is unlikely, unless either the Seagate or Quantum models that you have are known rogues (and I didn't find that they are) it is much more likely a conflict on the SCSI bus. Why now, after eight years? Well first of all I already told you to run your BIOS config and set the adapter to limit sync negotiation on the Quantum to 10Mb and see if that fixed it. I'll check that the next time I boot. But it seems to happen on both drives, not just the Quantum. Secondly, you don't know how NT setup the disks and such on your system. It is quite possible that the NT driver saw the mismatch and simply reprogrammed the SCSI adapter card to limit both disks to 10Mbt transfers. Or possibly the NT driver decided not to send writes to both disks at the same time. So, comparisons like it worked with NT so the hardware must be good are almost useless. So how do I configure FreeBSD to do the same thing? If NT can do it in software, so can FreeBSD. But the most important thing, and I think why your having so much trouble here, is that you are trying to approach this problem as though you paid $9,000 for this server, yesterday. I don't believe in throwing computers away just because they are a few years old. If your Vectra was a brand new prototype in an HP test lab, or even if it was 10 days old from HP and you ran into this problem, you might have engineers with SCSI analyzers from HP's server build department all over you. If it were a problem with hardware, I would have had exactly that eight years ago. But I didn't, so it's not. But it's not - this is a server that has a production life that is OVER. I know you don't like Ebay and you probably think that everything on it is junk, but people are selling HP servers on it right now that are more powerful than yours and younger than it for under a hundred bucks - see: Why should I pay anything for another machine, when I have a perfectly good one here on my desk? All I need is software that can drive it. The fact of the matter is that ANY life you can get out of this server today is found money - it's a freebie. HP, 8 or 10 years ago when they designed this server would
RE: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Anthony Atkielski Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 10:52 AM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere? So perhaps FreeBSD is issuing commands that the disk drives don't like. Incidentally, I've discovered that I can instantly generate similar messages by issuing smartctl -a /dev/da0 (or da1). That is 1000% better as far as troubleshooting goes, you need to file a PR on this. Secondly, you don't know how NT setup the disks and such on your system. It is quite possible that the NT driver saw the mismatch and simply reprogrammed the SCSI adapter card to limit both disks to 10Mbt transfers. Or possibly the NT driver decided not to send writes to both disks at the same time. So, comparisons like it worked with NT so the hardware must be good are almost useless. So how do I configure FreeBSD to do the same thing? If NT can do it in software, so can FreeBSD. The Adaptec driver gets the setting out of the SCS adapters setting that are written into it's eeprom. You know the Press f6 message you get on boot, that lets you into the Adaptec BIOS? Change it there and the driver will pick up the change. But the most important thing, and I think why your having so much trouble here, is that you are trying to approach this problem as though you paid $9,000 for this server, yesterday. I don't believe in throwing computers away just because they are a few years old. I don't either but the world does and it is difficult to interest people in support of gear that is 8 years old. Hardware manufacturers in particular have a vested interest in helping you to write drivers for their brand new gear so they can sell it, and a vested interest in not helpiing you resurrect old gear that might steal sales away from new gear. So what is the difference between yours and mine? FreeBSD 4.11 instead of 5.3 is a big one. Also I am using a card, my controller isn't on the motherboard. Also I only have 1 disk drive - although as you will note I have a SCSI cd and burner on the same bus. And my disk drive is a Micrapolis not a Seagate or Quantum. But this is a stable system. The hardware _does_ work. I didn't put this together out of scrap parts. It has run perfectly for eight years; I think I can safely say that it's pretty well broken in by now. So when I switch from Windows to FreeBSD and it stops working, I know it's not hardware. As long as you don't accept the fact that Windows drivers can and do write around hardware kludges, and FreeBSD drivers may not have all the same written-around kludges as the Windows ones do, your going to get nowhere. I'll consider it. The waste of time has been mutual. If you don't take our advice here on the forum, it is a waste. Try limiting the sync negotiation to 10MB on the Quantum and see what happens. Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ted Mittelstaedt writes: But that was under NT I understand, using NT drivers, right? Yes. I wouldn't put it past the NT driver author of your SCSI card, in an effort to avoid problems, to have written the NT driver so that ALL transactions on the SCSI bus are asynchronous. I don't know. Anyway, if this is it, you will not have been the first person with iffy hardware that worked fine under Windows to have it break under FreeBSD. I didn't know that Adaptec, Quantum, and Seagate were building such iffy hardware. I have an Adaptec AAA-131 Ultra 2 card here that is just jumping up and down to prove you wrong. Adaptec has some great product. Unfortunately they came out with the great product early on, then decided once they got their reputation that they could make a lot of money by hiding obscenities like the AAA-131 card in amongst the decent hardware. Adaptec was also total assholes about giving up the specs for the 2740 so that we could write a device driver for it. The Linux people also were affected as well. This might have been a long time ago but Adaptec still to this day rather ignores FreeBSD. This machine originally cost $9000. HP did not skimp on the hardware. I just had a machine do this to me Friday - a Pentium Pro 150 - but I managed to guess at a change to a BIOS setting that fixed the problem. Fine. What do I change on my machine to fix the problem? I can't tell you what to change. However, I CAN tell you how to go about finding out what you need to change. Do you want to do this? It might mean some effort on your part. Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
Ted Mittelstaedt writes: I have an Adaptec AAA-131 Ultra 2 card here that is just jumping up and down to prove you wrong. This is an AIC7880. When you have one of those, let me know. However, I CAN tell you how to go about finding out what you need to change. Do you want to do this? It might mean some effort on your part. I thought that asking questions here was supposed to help, and I posted all the information I have, but apparently nobody has a clue. -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
Anthony Atkielski wrote: Ted Mittelstaedt writes: I have an Adaptec AAA-131 Ultra 2 card here that is just jumping up and down to prove you wrong. This is an AIC7880. When you have one of those, let me know. However, I CAN tell you how to go about finding out what you need to change. Do you want to do this? It might mean some effort on your part. I thought that asking questions here was supposed to help, and I posted all the information I have, but apparently nobody has a clue. Anthony, I might have missed it but I can't find any information about what SCSI errors you are receiving. Why don't you post the errors you are seeing and/or perhaps your dmesg output as well and maybe someone can help you. Without more information noone can do more than guess. Chris ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
Chris Hodgins writes: I might have missed it but I can't find any information about what SCSI errors you are receiving. Why don't you post the errors you are seeing and/or perhaps your dmesg output as well and maybe someone can help you. Without more information noone can do more than guess. Here it is, again: I get constant streams of messages concerning my disks on the console whenever I have a lot of disk activity on my system (2x SCSI disks, no IDE or other disks). I'd very much like to know what's going on (there's nothing wrong with the hardware, so either it's a configuration problem, or it's a bug). There doesn't seem to be any data loss or corruption occurring. I've had one or two panics, though (which may or may not have caused data loss--it's hard to tell). While recompiling the kernel, the system stalled periodically (at least anything involving disk I/O stalled) and generated several hundred kilobytes of messages looking like this: Feb 26 20:09:23 contactdish kernel: (da0:ahc0:0:0:0): Retrying Command Feb 26 20:09:23 contactdish kernel: (da0:ahc0:0:0:0): Request Requeued Feb 26 20:09:23 contactdish kernel: (da0:ahc0:0:0:0): Retrying Command Feb 26 20:09:23 contactdish kernel: (da0:ahc0:0:0:0): Queue Full Feb 26 20:09:23 contactdish kernel: (da0:ahc0:0:0:0): tagged openings now 64 Feb 26 20:09:23 contactdish kernel: (da0:ahc0:0:0:0): Retrying Command Feb 26 20:09:24 contactdish kernel: (da0:ahc0:0:0:0): Queue Full Feb 26 20:09:24 contactdish kernel: (da0:ahc0:0:0:0): tagged openings now 63 Feb 26 20:09:24 contactdish kernel: (da0:ahc0:0:0:0): Retrying Command Feb 26 20:09:26 contactdish kernel: (da1:ahc0:0:2:0): Request Requeued Feb 26 20:09:26 contactdish kernel: (da1:ahc0:0:2:0): Retrying Command Feb 26 20:09:26 contactdish kernel: (da1:ahc0:0:2:0): Queue Full Feb 26 20:09:26 contactdish kernel: (da1:ahc0:0:2:0): Retrying Command In addition, I sometimes get bursts of much longer messages, looking something like this: Feb 25 20:09:29 contactdish kernel: ahc0: Recovery Initiated Feb 25 20:09:29 contactdish kernel: Dump Card State Begins Feb 25 20:09:29 contactdish kernel: ahc0: Dumping Card State in Message-in phase, at SEQADDR 0x162 Feb 25 20:09:29 contactdish kernel: Card was paused Feb 25 20:09:29 contactdish kernel: ACCUM = 0xcb, SINDEX = 0x0, DINDEX = 0x88, ARG_2 = 0x0 Feb 25 20:09:29 contactdish kernel: HCNT = 0x0 SCBPTR = 0xa Feb 25 20:09:29 contactdish kernel: SCSISIGI[0xe6]:(REQI|BSYI|MSGI|IOI|CDI) ERROR[0x0] Feb 25 20:09:29 contactdish kernel: SCSIBUSL[0x0] LASTPHASE[0xe0]:(MSGI|IOI|CDI) SCSISEQ[0x12]:(ENAUTOATNP|ENRSELI) Feb 25 20:09:29 contactdish kernel: SBLKCTL[0x0] SCSIRATE[0xf]:(SXFR_ULTRA2) SEQCTL[0x10]:(FASTMODE) Feb 25 20:09:29 contactdish kernel: SEQ_FLAGS[0x0] SSTAT0[0x7]:(DMADONE|SPIORDY|SDONE) Feb 25 20:09:29 contactdish kernel: SSTAT1[0x3]:(REQINIT|PHASECHG) SSTAT2[0x0] SSTAT3[0x0] Feb 25 20:09:29 contactdish kernel: SIMODE0[0x0] SIMODE1[0xac]:(ENSCSIPERR|ENBUSFREE|ENSCSIRST|ENSELTIMO) Feb 25 20:09:29 contactdish kernel: SXFRCTL0[0xa8]:(SPIOEN|FAST20|DFON) DFCNTRL[0x0] DFSTATUS[0x29]:(FIFOEMP|HDONE|FIFOQWDEMP) Feb 25 20:09:29 contactdish kernel: STACK: 0x105 0x100 0xe5 0x163 Feb 25 20:09:29 contactdish kernel: SCB count = 100 Feb 25 20:09:29 contactdish kernel: Kernel NEXTQSCB = 19 Feb 25 20:09:29 contactdish kernel: Card NEXTQSCB = 25 Feb 25 20:09:29 contactdish kernel: QINFIFO entries: 25 71 31 Feb 25 20:09:29 contactdish kernel: Waiting Queue entries: Feb 25 20:09:29 contactdish kernel: Disconnected Queue entries: 0:72 1:68 2:84 14:60 12:61 5:53 Feb 25 20:09:29 contactdish kernel: QOUTFIFO entries: Feb 25 20:09:29 contactdish kernel: Sequencer Free SCB List: 10 6 9 3 7 4 13 11 15 8 Feb 25 20:09:29 contactdish kernel: Sequencer SCB Info: Feb 25 20:09:29 contactdish kernel: 0 SCB_CONTROL[0x6c]:(DISCONNECTED|ULTRAENB|TAG_ENB|DISCENB) Feb 25 20:09:29 contactdish kernel: SCB_SCSIID[0x27] SCB_LUN[0x0] SCB_TAG[0x48] Feb 25 20:09:29 contactdish kernel: 1 SCB_CONTROL[0x6c]:(DISCONNECTED|ULTRAENB|TAG_ENB|DISCENB) Feb 25 20:09:29 contactdish kernel: SCB_SCSIID[0x27] SCB_LUN[0x0] SCB_TAG[0x44] Feb 25 20:09:29 contactdish kernel: 2 SCB_CONTROL[0x6c]:(DISCONNECTED|ULTRAENB|TAG_ENB|DISCENB) Feb 25 20:09:29 contactdish kernel: SCB_SCSIID[0x27] SCB_LUN[0x0] SCB_TAG[0x54] Feb 25 20:09:29 contactdish kernel: 3 SCB_CONTROL[0xe8]:(ULTRAENB|TAG_ENB|DISCENB|TARGET_SCB) Feb 25 20:09:29 contactdish kernel: SCB_SCSIID[0x27] SCB_LUN[0x0] SCB_TAG[0xff] Feb 25 20:09:29 contactdish kernel: 4 SCB_CONTROL[0xe8]:(ULTRAENB|TAG_ENB|DISCENB|TARGET_SCB) Feb 25 20:09:29 contactdish kernel: SCB_SCSIID[0x27] SCB_LUN[0x0] SCB_TAG[0xff] Feb 25 20:09:29 contactdish kernel: 5 SCB_CONTROL[0x6c]:(DISCONNECTED|ULTRAENB|TAG_ENB|DISCENB) Feb 25 20:09:29 contactdish kernel: SCB_SCSIID[0x27] SCB_LUN[0x0] SCB_TAG[0x35] Feb 25 20:09:29 contactdish kernel: 6 SCB_CONTROL[0xe8]:(ULTRAENB|TAG_ENB|DISCENB|TARGET_SCB) Feb 25 20:09:29 contactdish kernel:
RE: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
Anthony, It appears you have a narrow-SCSI max 10MB sync disk drive and a ultra -3 20MB sync disk drive on the same adapter card. Such a combination is iffy at best. Even worse is it's different manufacturers - while SCSI is supposed to be standard, the standard isn't completely followed by all manufacturers. It is not as bad as mixing IDE but it isn't the best. Quantum (now Maxtor) does not have detailed specs as to what exactly a Quantum XP34550S is, whether it's narrow or wide or differential SCSI. I can see it's an Atlas 2 drive but there's both narrow and wide Atlas 2s I would assume this is a wide drive since it's synced at 20.000MB/s transfers if so how are you attaching it to the adapter card? Do you have the narrow Seagate and the wide Quantum on the same adapter card? If so then your really asking for trouble. And those 68-50 pin scsi adapters are bullshit if that is what you are using. If the Quantum is a narrow drive, then going in to the Adaptec card's BIOS and forcing negotiation on the Quantum to 10MB/s MIGHT fix the trouble, assuming FreeBSD picks up the 10MB. But, from the looks of it you have 2 SCSI adapters, one probably on motherboard, the other on a card, the disks attached to the motherboard card (which has no BIOS) and something else attached to the card (which does have a BIOS) Perhaps EISA-config could set it if this system has EISA slots? Standard troubleshooting is to put in 1 drive, install FreeBSD and work it out and see if it blows, then pull that drive and put in the other, then install FreeBSD and work it and see if it blows. If you do that my guess is you will find FreeBSD doesen't blow on either disk when they are separated. Only when they are in the same machine. Fortunately 4GB SCSI disks are cheap on the used market. I've never cared that much for Quantum SCSI, they were the OEM for Apple for years and I never felt that the old Mac's obeyed the SCSI standard completely, and that Quantum catered to this. It also speaks volumes that Quantum couldn't make a go of it in the disk market and sold out to Maxtor. As a result I run mostly Seagate SCSI disks and I have never had a problem on Seagate-Adaptec combos. If it was my machine I'd dig around for another Seagate SCSI disk and jettison the Quantum, but I will admit this is personal preference. Ted -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Anthony Atkielski Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 4:05 AM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere? Chris Hodgins writes: I might have missed it but I can't find any information about what SCSI errors you are receiving. Why don't you post the errors you are seeing and/or perhaps your dmesg output as well and maybe someone can help you. Without more information noone can do more than guess. Here it is, again: I get constant streams of messages concerning my disks on the console whenever I have a lot of disk activity on my system (2x SCSI disks, no IDE or other disks). I'd very much like to know what's going on (there's nothing wrong with the hardware, so either it's a configuration problem, or it's a bug). There doesn't seem to be any data loss or corruption occurring. I've had one or two panics, though (which may or may not have caused data loss--it's hard to tell). While recompiling the kernel, the system stalled periodically (at least anything involving disk I/O stalled) and generated several hundred kilobytes of messages looking like this: Feb 26 20:09:23 contactdish kernel: (da0:ahc0:0:0:0): Retrying Command Feb 26 20:09:23 contactdish kernel: (da0:ahc0:0:0:0): Request Requeued Feb 26 20:09:23 contactdish kernel: (da0:ahc0:0:0:0): Retrying Command Feb 26 20:09:23 contactdish kernel: (da0:ahc0:0:0:0): Queue Full Feb 26 20:09:23 contactdish kernel: (da0:ahc0:0:0:0): tagged openings now 64 Feb 26 20:09:23 contactdish kernel: (da0:ahc0:0:0:0): Retrying Command Feb 26 20:09:24 contactdish kernel: (da0:ahc0:0:0:0): Queue Full Feb 26 20:09:24 contactdish kernel: (da0:ahc0:0:0:0): tagged openings now 63 Feb 26 20:09:24 contactdish kernel: (da0:ahc0:0:0:0): Retrying Command Feb 26 20:09:26 contactdish kernel: (da1:ahc0:0:2:0): Request Requeued Feb 26 20:09:26 contactdish kernel: (da1:ahc0:0:2:0): Retrying Command Feb 26 20:09:26 contactdish kernel: (da1:ahc0:0:2:0): Queue Full Feb 26 20:09:26 contactdish kernel: (da1:ahc0:0:2:0): Retrying Command In addition, I sometimes get bursts of much longer messages, looking something like this: Feb 25 20:09:29 contactdish kernel: ahc0: Recovery Initiated Feb 25 20:09:29 contactdish kernel: Dump Card State Begins Feb 25 20:09:29 contactdish kernel: ahc0: Dumping Card State in Message-in phase, at SEQADDR 0x162 Feb 25 20:09:29 contactdish kernel: Card was paused Feb 25 20:09:29 contactdish kernel: ACCUM = 0xcb, SINDEX = 0x0, DINDEX = 0x88, ARG_2 = 0x0
RE: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Anthony Atkielski Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 3:42 AM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere? Ted Mittelstaedt writes: I have an Adaptec AAA-131 Ultra 2 card here that is just jumping up and down to prove you wrong. This is an AIC7880. When you have one of those, let me know. The AIC7880 stuff is in the good category of stuff from Adaptec, not the junk category. However, I CAN tell you how to go about finding out what you need to change. Do you want to do this? It might mean some effort on your part. I thought that asking questions here was supposed to help, and I posted all the information I have, but apparently nobody has a clue. The people that can answer questions don't always respond. A lot of times I will let questions go by that I know the answer to simply because it's so easy that I know someone else is going to respond. Also, I don't generally answer questions that I have to do a lot of digging on because the questioner didn't put in enough data. Such as your SCSI question. You posted the dmesg but you still haven't posted the model of HP server. More importantly, you didn't post the overview data which if you had you would have got an answer to at once. For example if you had asked: I have a server that is giving errors on heavy disk load and I have a narrow SCSI Seagate disk and a wide SCSI Quantum in it, make and model #'s that would have got an immediate don't do that your termination is always screwed in such a scenario This is assuming you are mixing interfaces, which is still to be determined. Now granted you probably aren't aware of that, and I don't recall even reading your original SCSI question anyway, I might have not got it. I might have answered it anyway simply because I know that SCSI is getting to be a lost art for many people and that a lot of people here might have forgot about much of their institutional knowledge on SCSI, even if I had to do the digging for it. Also one other thing that is important - if you don't get an answer within a week or so, ask again, politely. Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
Ted Mittelstaedt writes: It appears you have a narrow-SCSI max 10MB sync disk drive and a ultra -3 20MB sync disk drive on the same adapter card. Such a combination is iffy at best. The configuration was the one recommended by HP. I bought the second drive from HP directly. They both have the same type of SCSI interface, approved by HP. I'm tired of hearing why it's not FreeBSD's fault. When you can tell me exactly what theses messages mean, instead of guessing, let me know. I'm not going to plug and unplug hardware all day based on your speculations, particularly since I know this hardware configuration works, and has worked for eight years. As it stands now, all I know for sure is that FreeBSD apparently cannot support what Windows can support, and nobody call tell me why. -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
Ted Mittelstaedt writes: The AIC7880 stuff is in the good category of stuff from Adaptec, not the junk category. Well, that's nice to hear. I guess my $9000 wasn't entirely wasted. The people that can answer questions don't always respond. Remember what I said about problems with FreeBSD support for mission-critical and large-scale deployments? Also, I don't generally answer questions that I have to do a lot of digging on because the questioner didn't put in enough data. Such as your SCSI question. You posted the dmesg but you still haven't posted the model of HP server. I thought I had. HP Vectra XU 6/200 D4352N/ABF. This is assuming you are mixing interfaces, which is still to be determined. I'm not. Also one other thing that is important - if you don't get an answer within a week or so, ask again, politely. How do I ask after the second post with no reply? On bended knee? -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Anthony Atkielski Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 3:53 PM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere? ...ummm this is rather like a windows admin saying s/he never updates windows. If it's a Windows _server_, I never do any updates that are not absolutely necessary. The ISP I work at has a sister company that is a network services company. One of the several techs that work for that company has your attitude. He's been burned a few times when he's installed patches that broke existing software at a customer. However, the customers that he cares for have the highest percentage of broken-into servers. (by outside crackers) From our point of view over at the ISP it seems to us that the pain of dealing with an app that breaks as a result of a security update is less than dealing with the pain of cleaning up a server that is broken into. And we have also observed that no matter how long the techs there work on a Windows server that has been broken into, once it's broken into it seems to get regularly re-broken into in the future, unless they nuke and repave it. I guess your attitude is safe enough if you regularly backup and you don't have critical data like credit cards or patient data or whatever that you don't want to have spread around. Updating. yes you are constantly updating on a production server, unless your idea of fun is somebody compromising your machine. Unless the OS is a Swiss cheese of bugs, constant updating is not necessary. If the OS is so insecure that you must constantly update just to stay ahead of the kiddies, it's time to think of installing a different OS. Frankly I find this rather silly. The OS does very little that helps a cracker. About the only thing that bugs in the OS will allow a cracker to do is DoS a TCP/IP stack. The difficulty is in the application programs, such as nfs, samba, http, telnetd, sshd, smtp, dns, etc. which all of in the past had security holes discovered and closed - sometimes repeatedly. The same goes for Microsoft's products. Just because an app like IIS is bundled with Windows Server, and an app like telnetd is bundled with UNIX, does not mean that when those apps got cracked, that the OS was the problem. Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
Anthony Atkielski wrote: Leonard Zettel writes: My own experiences have given me a definite bias toward using the ports system to compile stuff to be added to my system rather than going with the binary packages. I get the impression that many port maintainers who are fairly careful about keeping their port versions workable and patched only give a relative lick and promise to their packages. Unfortunately, bugs in the handling of my SCSI disks prevent me from doing anything that is disk-intensive without crashing the system, so downloading the ports collection probably won't be possible. Anthony, I understand your frustration. I think you should fix the SCSI problems before doing anything. The ports collection really works very well. Perhaps some experts here can help you with your SCSI. I am a FreeBSD novice ;-) Ramiro. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ramiro Aceves Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 2:33 PM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere? Anthony, I understand your frustration. I think you should fix the SCSI problems before doing anything. The ports collection really works very well. Perhaps some experts here can help you with your SCSI. I am a FreeBSD novice ;-) I agree Ramiro, I've setup dozens and dozens of different SCSI setups, and I think that his problem is hardware, such as incorrect termination, a bad scsi cable, bad connectors on the cable, or an incompatible SCSI/disk combination (which is rare, but it does happen) Others have suggested this to him though and he either ignores them or insists he's checked all that. Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
Ted Mittelstaedt writes: One of the several techs that work for that company has your attitude. He's been burned a few times when he's installed patches that broke existing software at a customer. However, the customers that he cares for have the highest percentage of broken-into servers. (by outside crackers) I don't know that one can assume cause and effect here. Many updates are not security-related. Of the security-related updates, not all are relevant in a given environment. And since most security updates move in the direction of greater restrictions on what programs can do, they are especially likely to break existing applications. From our point of view over at the ISP it seems to us that the pain of dealing with an app that breaks as a result of a security update is less than dealing with the pain of cleaning up a server that is broken into. And we have also observed that no matter how long the techs there work on a Windows server that has been broken into, once it's broken into it seems to get regularly re-broken into in the future, unless they nuke and repave it. The solution here is to stop using Windows, if possible. Windows systems are extremely complex and cannot easily be stripped to eliminate unnecessary vulnerabilities. You can close the holes you know about, but you don't know what other holes exist until Microsoft or someone else tells you about them, or until you're broken into. And you may be obligated to patch holes in software that is completely useless to you, simply because there is no way to turn that software off. Windows is a good solution for IT departments that have virtually no qualified people on staff. They can just plug in the servers and run them, and they can just apply every update that comes out. They'll spend more on hardware and licensing than they would with an open-source solution like FreeBSD, and they'll never have a firm handle on exactly what their servers are doing internally, but at least it lowers personal costs and allows a company to get some sort of server capability in house without searching for expensive IT talent. Used as directed, and with regular updates, Windows is moderately safe. I guess your attitude is safe enough if you regularly backup and you don't have critical data like credit cards or patient data or whatever that you don't want to have spread around. Yes. Confidential data like credit cards or medical records requires some fairly extraordinary precautions, anyway, ideally involving physical barriers to compromise (by distributing functions over different servers, etc.). Unfortunately a lot of small companies (and some large ones--cf. ChoicePoint) are exceedingly careless about how they handle this type of data, and with the prevalence of credit-card commerce, there's a lot of exposed information out there. Frankly I find this rather silly. The OS does very little that helps a cracker. About the only thing that bugs in the OS will allow a cracker to do is DoS a TCP/IP stack. The difficulty is in the application programs, such as nfs, samba, http, telnetd, sshd, smtp, dns, etc. which all of in the past had security holes discovered and closed - sometimes repeatedly. The same goes for Microsoft's products. Agreed, but it reduces to the same thing, since each OS tends to bring with it a set of applications. You may have problems with telnetd on UNIX, but not on Windows, since Windows doesn't generally run telnetd. You won't have problems with IIS on UNIX. Just because an app like IIS is bundled with Windows Server, and an app like telnetd is bundled with UNIX, does not mean that when those apps got cracked, that the OS was the problem. The whole environment was the problem. -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
Ted Mittelstaedt writes: I agree Ramiro, I've setup dozens and dozens of different SCSI setups, and I think that his problem is hardware, such as incorrect termination, a bad scsi cable, bad connectors on the cable, or an incompatible SCSI/disk combination (which is rare, but it does happen) No. The machine ran flawlessly for eight years with the current hardware configuration, no errors, no data loss, even under the heaviest loads. There's nothing wrong with the hardware. It's either a bug in FreeBSD or a configuration error. -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
Ramiro Aceves writes: Anthony, I understand your frustration. I think you should fix the SCSI problems before doing anything. If I could find out what is causing them, I would. The only thing I know right now is that it's not hardware. -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
On Mon, 28 Feb 2005, Anthony Atkielski wrote: Ted Mittelstaedt writes: I agree Ramiro, I've setup dozens and dozens of different SCSI setups, and I think that his problem is hardware, such as incorrect termination, a bad scsi cable, bad connectors on the cable, or an incompatible SCSI/disk combination (which is rare, but it does happen) No. The machine ran flawlessly for eight years with the current hardware configuration, no errors, no data loss, even under the heaviest loads. There's nothing wrong with the hardware. The hardware has ran for over 8 years - you don't think that after 8 years its going to show wear and tear? I do/would. We as humans are not perfect - so that means the things we make can't be perfect either. They will break down, even die. I suspect that if you put in new hardware, the issues will remove themselves. Best regards, Chris ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
RacerX writes: The hardware has ran for over 8 years - you don't think that after 8 years its going to show wear and tear? I do/would. It's not going to suddenly fail on the very day and hour that I install FreeBSD. We as humans are not perfect - so that means the things we make can't be perfect either. They will break down, even die. I suspect that if you put in new hardware, the issues will remove themselves. No, they will not. Unless someone can explain to me what the problem is with FreeBSD, the only way to resolve the issues is to reinstall Windows NT, which doesn't seem to have a problem with these SCSI drives. -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
Anthony Atkielski wrote: RacerX writes: The hardware has ran for over 8 years - you don't think that after 8 years its going to show wear and tear? I do/would. It's not going to suddenly fail on the very day and hour that I install FreeBSD. Sounds like the perfect time for them to go wrong. They have been doing the same thing for 8 years without problem. Probably ageing gracefully. Suddenly you come along and give them a good old shake up...I would imagine this would be the perfect occasion for this to happen. We as humans are not perfect - so that means the things we make can't be perfect either. They will break down, even die. I suspect that if you put in new hardware, the issues will remove themselves. No, they will not. Unless someone can explain to me what the problem is with FreeBSD, the only way to resolve the issues is to reinstall Windows NT, which doesn't seem to have a problem with these SCSI drives. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
Chris Hodgins writes: Sounds like the perfect time for them to go wrong. They have been doing the same thing for 8 years without problem. They are still doing the same thing today. There is no additional stress in changing operating systems. Suddenly you come along and give them a good old shake up...I would imagine this would be the perfect occasion for this to happen. I have no idea what you mean by this. No shake-up is involved. They do the same I/O they've always been doing. They have no idea whether it's Windows NT starting the I/O or FreeBSD. It all looks the same to the drives. -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 22:35:54 +0100, Anthony Atkielski wrote Chris Hodgins writes: Sounds like the perfect time for them to go wrong. They have been doing the same thing for 8 years without problem. They are still doing the same thing today. There is no additional stress in changing operating systems. Suddenly you come along and give them a good old shake up...I would imagine this would be the perfect occasion for this to happen. I have no idea what you mean by this. No shake-up is involved. They do the same I/O they've always been doing. They have no idea whether it's Windows NT starting the I/O or FreeBSD. It all looks the same to the drives. Have you considered the possibility that windows just didn't report the error? Just because it is unreported under windows doesn't mean it's not happening... And just because it has been working for 8 years without a problem doesn't mean it will go working for a further 8, even if you change nothing.. Saying that, I do notice that sometimes, I do get scsi errors on boot, but then again I have modified the delay in probing the devices from 15000ms to 5000 in order to speed up boot. Probably unwise, given that the system has 2 scsi cards in, and as well as 5 drives, a scsi cdrom, it also has a scanner, which is slow to wake up. Saying *that*, on boot, one card always boots up fast. Sometimes the other card also boots up, sometimes it times out. But at the login prompt, everything on the system is up. This is prior to the boot loader loading, so it cannot possibly be FreeBSD. You haven't told us what you mean by scsi errors. Is it like I describe, or is it subsequent to bootup? -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
John writes: Have you considered the possibility that windows just didn't report the error? Yes. If that's true, and if no actual data loss is occurring, then I'm not worried about the error ... although I'd like to know how to remove the error messages, in that case. FreeBSD actually stalls when the errors occur (or more precisely, the process doing the I/O stalls--the rest of the OS keeps on running). Just because it is unreported under windows doesn't mean it's not happening... True, but I'd need to establish that for certain; I'm not going to just assume that it was happening and Windows ignored it. And just because it has been working for 8 years without a problem doesn't mean it will go working for a further 8, even if you change nothing.. The chance of these drives both failing _on the same day_ that I install FreeBSD is less than one in 70 million. So that's not it. Saying that, I do notice that sometimes, I do get scsi errors on boot, but then again I have modified the delay in probing the devices from 15000ms to 5000 in order to speed up boot. Probably unwise, given that the system has 2 scsi cards in, and as well as 5 drives, a scsi cdrom, it also has a scanner, which is slow to wake up. I left the delay at 15 seconds for this reason (there's a second SCSI controller on the system, although I haven't used that thus far), but that doesn't seem to help. Saying *that*, on boot, one card always boots up fast. Sometimes the other card also boots up, sometimes it times out. But at the login prompt, everything on the system is up. This is prior to the boot loader loading, so it cannot possibly be FreeBSD. Some SCSI hardware takes a long time to initialize. You haven't told us what you mean by scsi errors. Is it like I describe, or is it subsequent to bootup? I've posted the errors in a previous message (it's a lot of text). It occurs mostly during periods of high disk activity, especially when I'm trying to download packages or something. It doesn't seem to occur at all on an idle system, which is logical, I guess. Another problem is that the system simply refuses to boot from the SCSI disk; I have to boot from the installation diskettes, then change the current device in the loader program, point to the SCSI disk, and boot again, which works perfectly (but it takes 15 minutes to go through the whole process, and of course it cannot be automated). Oddly enough, I installed boot0cfg to put a boot selector out there, and the hardware finds and runs that off the SCSI disk with no problem. It even gives the FreeBSD slice as a choice for boot. But when I actually select the FreeBSD slice, it freezes. I'm sure this isn't hardware, either. Something is wrong in the way the disks are set up, or there's a bug. -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
Anthony Atkielski wrote: The chance of these drives both failing _on the same day_ that I install FreeBSD is less than one in 70 million. So that's not it. Umm, I think the odds were greater then that when you think of how we all got here - yanno, all the right elements at the right place, at the right temps, at the right time, created the Big Bang - and here we are. So - it could be it. Never dismiss anything when it comes to hardware. Even the littlest thing can cause the greatest catastrophes. -- Best regards, Chris The first page the author turns to upon receiving an advance copy will be the page containing the worst error. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
Chris writes: So - it could be it. Never dismiss anything when it comes to hardware. Even the littlest thing can cause the greatest catastrophes. It's illogical to dismiss the extremely high probability of a software bug or configuration error while embracing the extremely low probability of a hardware error. Why not just admit that it's a software problem and try to get to the bottom of it? -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
Anthony Atkielski wrote: Chris writes: So - it could be it. Never dismiss anything when it comes to hardware. Even the littlest thing can cause the greatest catastrophes. It's illogical to dismiss the extremely high probability of a software bug or configuration error while embracing the extremely low probability of a hardware error. Why not just admit that it's a software problem and try to get to the bottom of it? Well - mainly, you seem to be the only one with the issue. S... -- Best regards, Chris If a scientist uncovers a publishable fact, it will become central to his theory. His theory, in turn, will become central to all scientific truth. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ted Mittelstaedt writes: I agree Ramiro, I've setup dozens and dozens of different SCSI setups, and I think that his problem is hardware, such as incorrect termination, a bad scsi cable, bad connectors on the cable, or an incompatible SCSI/disk combination (which is rare, but it does happen) No. The machine ran flawlessly for eight years with the current hardware configuration, no errors, no data loss, even under the heaviest loads. There's nothing wrong with the hardware. But that was under NT I understand, using NT drivers, right? The SCSI standard is pretty big and there's been a lot of go-fast stuff added into it, and a lot of vendors have done lots of different things to their adapter cards to make them go fast. Such as adding support for tagged commands. It is entirely up to the writer of the SCSI device driver whether or not he wants to support the extra go-fast stuff. FreeBSD because of it's nature in use as a server on high-quality hardware, it's drivers tend to take advantage of every last scrap of go-fast hardware available (unless such hardware is hopeless) A great example is the ed0 driver and it's support for the 3com 3c503 card - this card can be run in either PIO mode or shared memory mode - guess which mode the ed0 driver uses? Even though the wd8013 and 3c503 are the only 2 cards out of the bazillions of ne2000 clones that support this mode. You get a gain of perhaps 5% so they go for it. I wouldn't put it past the NT driver author of your SCSI card, in an effort to avoid problems, to have written the NT driver so that ALL transactions on the SCSI bus are asynchronous. Sure this kills your throughput on the SCSI bus - but with 4GB narrow scsi disks, who is going to notice? It greatly reduces support calls because async mode is so slow that even badly terminated SCSI busses will work - thus nobody with a crapped up SCSI cable is calling Microsoft and yelling because their server crashes. Anyway, if this is it, you will not have been the first person with iffy hardware that worked fine under Windows to have it break under FreeBSD. I just had a machine do this to me Friday - a Pentium Pro 150 - but I managed to guess at a change to a BIOS setting that fixed the problem. Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
Robert Marella writes: Perhaps you could try a live CD. Knoppix or Freesbie and see if the trouble is gone. This machine won't boot from a CD. -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
Ted Mittelstaedt writes: But that was under NT I understand, using NT drivers, right? Yes. I wouldn't put it past the NT driver author of your SCSI card, in an effort to avoid problems, to have written the NT driver so that ALL transactions on the SCSI bus are asynchronous. I don't know. Anyway, if this is it, you will not have been the first person with iffy hardware that worked fine under Windows to have it break under FreeBSD. I didn't know that Adaptec, Quantum, and Seagate were building such iffy hardware. This machine originally cost $9000. HP did not skimp on the hardware. I just had a machine do this to me Friday - a Pentium Pro 150 - but I managed to guess at a change to a BIOS setting that fixed the problem. Fine. What do I change on my machine to fix the problem? -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
John writes: I suppose I'm nit-picking here, but you would cron it rather than running it by hand. It's mostly the space that I prefer not to part with. How much space have you got to play with? About 2 GB total remaining on /usr. Just installing X stuff gobbled up a few hundred megabytes, it seems. If space is tight, running make distclean after make install helps, as does periodically deleting the contents of /usr/ports/distfiles Does pkg_add do this? [0] if you mean, by pull the index from an ftp site cd /usr/ports make index I meant running /stand/sysinstall and selecting an FTP site as the installation media for the software. It always downloads some sort of index when I do that, which I assume is an up-to-date list of all the ports available. -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
Anthony Atkielski wrote: John writes: I suppose I'm nit-picking here, but you would cron it rather than running it by hand. It's mostly the space that I prefer not to part with. How much space have you got to play with? About 2 GB total remaining on /usr. Just installing X stuff gobbled up a few hundred megabytes, it seems. Hello Anthony, If you have 2 GB remaining in /usr, install the ports tree, it will eat about 350 MB. I have updated recently the pots tree and yesterday I installed successfully Firefox-1.0_7,1 nicely on this slow AMD 400 MHz machine from the ports, and it works ok. Good luck. Ramiro. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
On Sunday 27 February 2005 04:01 am, Anthony Atkielski wrote: John writes: I suppose I'm nit-picking here, but you would cron it rather than running it by hand. It's mostly the space that I prefer not to part with. How much space have you got to play with? About 2 GB total remaining on /usr. Just installing X stuff gobbled up a few hundred megabytes, it seems. If space is tight, running make distclean after make install helps, as does periodically deleting the contents of /usr/ports/distfiles Does pkg_add do this? [0] if you mean, by pull the index from an ftp site cd /usr/ports make index I meant running /stand/sysinstall and selecting an FTP site as the installation media for the software. It always downloads some sort of index when I do that, which I assume is an up-to-date list of all the ports available. Being somewhat of a newvie, I should probably not be saying anything, but that's the assumption that nailed you. If I understand the situation correctly, what you got was information on *packages* available when the OS version was released, a subset of available ports. And this time around, that list was not in a totally self-consistent state. My own experiences have given me a definite bias toward using the ports system to compile stuff to be added to my system rather than going with the binary packages. I get the impression that many port maintainers who are fairly careful about keeping their port versions workable and patched only give a relative lick and promise to their packages. -LenZ- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
Ramiro Aceves writes: If you have 2 GB remaining in /usr, install the ports tree, it will eat about 350 MB. I tried it. The system generates so many SCSI errors that it panics before the entire tree is installed. -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
Leonard Zettel writes: My own experiences have given me a definite bias toward using the ports system to compile stuff to be added to my system rather than going with the binary packages. I get the impression that many port maintainers who are fairly careful about keeping their port versions workable and patched only give a relative lick and promise to their packages. Unfortunately, bugs in the handling of my SCSI disks prevent me from doing anything that is disk-intensive without crashing the system, so downloading the ports collection probably won't be possible. -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
Dru Lavigne's book BSD Hacks has a hack called Build a Port Without the Ports Tree which might be useful to you... and -- lucky you -- it's one of the sample hacks on O'Reilly's site: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/bsdhks/chapter/hack82.pdf Ben Anthony Atkielski wrote: Ramiro Aceves writes: If you have 2 GB remaining in /usr, install the ports tree, it will eat about 350 MB. I tried it. The system generates so many SCSI errors that it panics before the entire tree is installed. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
Leonard Zettel wrote: On Sunday 27 February 2005 04:01 am, Anthony Atkielski wrote: John writes: If space is tight, running make distclean after make install helps, as does periodically deleting the contents of /usr/ports/distfiles Does pkg_add do this? There's no need for [one of] the exact reason[s] that has you already sold on packages instead of ports. There's nothing excess [much] in a binary package. If you're install via ports, you get a source tarball that d'loads to /ports/distfiles, then is uncompressed and untarred to a work subdir in the port directory, where all the ' config/make/make install happens. If you `make install clean` the port, this subdir is `rm`ed after installation. If you `make distclean` the source tarball is removed, also. [0] if you mean, by pull the index from an ftp site cd /usr/ports make index I meant running /stand/sysinstall and selecting an FTP site as the installation media for the software. It always downloads some sort of index when I do that, which I assume is an up-to-date list of all the ports available. Being somewhat of a newvie, I should probably not be saying anything, but that's the assumption that nailed you. If I understand the situation correctly, what you got was information on *packages* available when the OS version was released, a subset of available ports. And this time around, that list was not in a totally self-consistent state. I wrote two [one rather long] post[s] yesterday on this. The conclusion I drew is that you get an Index coinciding with the 'Release Name' you have set under sysinstall's Configure - Options menu. As I do my ports work in terminals instead of via sysinstall, I can't say *for certain*, and no one authoritative has stepped forward to confirm or deny my hypothesis. If you can set this to an appropriate value, you should get a useable list of packages My own experiences have given me a definite bias toward using the ports system to compile stuff to be added to my system rather than going with the binary packages. I get the impression that many port maintainers who are fairly careful about keeping their port versions workable and patched only give a relative lick and promise to their packages. -LenZ- While I share your bias towards the ports tree, I think that this final impression might be wrong?. Kris Kennaway et al have a rather extensive system for automated package-building. built very regularly (see http://pointyhat.freebsd.org). Of course, they don't control the source of all those ports, so I guess it's possible that if some maintainers have their software in a broken or buggy state when a set of packages is built for a RELEASE, there's not much that can be done about it at the time. I'm sure that maintainers are notified a few times before a RELEASE in order to get their affairs in order, but that doesn't mean that they do, or that it's FBSD's fault if they don't. I guess if you knew the URI of a recently built package from the Project's bento cluster, (or whatever it's called), you could use pkg_add against that address and get something newer if you wanted to. Me, I like ports Kevin Kinsey ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 10:01:44 +0100, Anthony Atkielski wrote About 2 GB total remaining on /usr. Just installing X stuff gobbled up a few hundred megabytes, it seems. [ I said] If space is tight, running make distclean after make install helps, as does periodically deleting the contents of /usr/ports/distfiles [you said] Does pkg_add do this? I don't think so. But here is an alternative strategy: 1. you mentioned that you had the ports tree on another machine. Can you nfs mount it? 2. As others have mentioned, firebird is a fast-moving target. You *need* a cvsupped ports in order to keep up with it. So why not install the tree, portupgrade whatever rapidly changing applications you need (portupgrade -aRr), then rm -rf /usr/ports? [0] if you mean, by pull the index from an ftp site cd /usr/ports make index I meant running /stand/sysinstall and selecting an FTP site as the installation media for the software. It always downloads some sort of index when I do that, which I assume is an up-to-date list of all the ports available. hmm. I've never used sysinstall for ports stuff apart from the initial preparation.. When preparing a machine, I'll install the ports tree, and cvsup-without-gui, and that's it. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
John writes: 1. you mentioned that you had the ports tree on another machine. Can you nfs mount it? I pulled all the NFS stuff out of the kernel, alas! 2. As others have mentioned, firebird is a fast-moving target. You *need* a cvsupped ports in order to keep up with it. So why not install the tree, portupgrade whatever rapidly changing applications you need (portupgrade -aRr), then rm -rf /usr/ports? I've never used cvsup or portupgrade or anything like that. hmm. I've never used sysinstall for ports stuff apart from the initial preparation.. When preparing a machine, I'll install the ports tree, and cvsup-without-gui, and that's it. I'll have to look into this when time permits. It seems like a lot of effort for something that normally isn't done very much on a production system (presumably one is not constantly installing and deinstalling software on a production server). -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
Anthony Atkielski wrote: John writes: 1. you mentioned that you had the ports tree on another machine. Can you nfs mount it? I pulled all the NFS stuff out of the kernel, alas! It should be trivial to update your kernel config and rebuild and install the new kernel. Remember to reboot when you are done. 2. As others have mentioned, firebird is a fast-moving target. You *need* a cvsupped ports in order to keep up with it. So why not install the tree, portupgrade whatever rapidly changing applications you need (portupgrade -aRr), then rm -rf /usr/ports? I've never used cvsup or portupgrade or anything like that. hmm. I've never used sysinstall for ports stuff apart from the initial preparation.. When preparing a machine, I'll install the ports tree, and cvsup-without-gui, and that's it. I'll have to look into this when time permits. It seems like a lot of effort for something that normally isn't done very much on a production system (presumably one is not constantly installing and deinstalling software on a production server). Not installing and deinstalling, but updating. I use cvsup and portupgrade about once a week to keep my system up to date. If you are running a production system and don't, then you are putting yourself and your users at risk (especially on systems running lots of applications). I am not running a production system btw this is just for my home system. Chris ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
Chris Hodgins writes: It should be trivial to update your kernel config and rebuild and install the new kernel. Remember to reboot when you are done. It's trivial in principle, but this is a production server. The golden rule for production servers is never to change anything unless you have to. I don't know that assisting with my testing justifies the risk of rebuilding the kernel on the production machine (not to mention trying to get NFS to work). Not installing and deinstalling, but updating. I use cvsup and portupgrade about once a week to keep my system up to date. If you are running a production system and don't, then you are putting yourself and your users at risk (especially on systems running lots of applications). I am not running a production system btw this is just for my home system. One doesn't do this on production systems. Any kind of automatic or regular change or updating of the server is an invitation to catastrophe. Changes to production servers must be explicitly and carefully carried out and exhaustively tested for regressions and compatibility. I'd never have anything automatically updated on a production machine; I want to see and verify every change before it goes into production, and I need a Plan B to back out any change if something goes wrong. -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
Anthony Atkielski wrote: Chris Hodgins writes: It should be trivial to update your kernel config and rebuild and install the new kernel. Remember to reboot when you are done. It's trivial in principle, but this is a production server. The golden rule for production servers is never to change anything unless you have to. I don't know that assisting with my testing justifies the risk of rebuilding the kernel on the production machine (not to mention trying to get NFS to work). If you have ssh running on your production machine you could build using ports on the other test machine and sftp the new package across. Not installing and deinstalling, but updating. I use cvsup and portupgrade about once a week to keep my system up to date. If you are running a production system and don't, then you are putting yourself and your users at risk (especially on systems running lots of applications). I am not running a production system btw this is just for my home system. One doesn't do this on production systems. Any kind of automatic or regular change or updating of the server is an invitation to catastrophe. Changes to production servers must be explicitly and carefully carried out and exhaustively tested for regressions and compatibility. I'd never have anything automatically updated on a production machine; I want to see and verify every change before it goes into production, and I need a Plan B to back out any change if something goes wrong. Well if you are doing all this you will carry out the updates to your test machine first and validate everything works fine. Once you are happy build a package from it and add it to your production server. I am not sure how you would verify a package as big as firefox or openoffice without doing this. Chris ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 23:13:51 +0100, Anthony Atkielski wrote John writes: 1. you mentioned that you had the ports tree on another machine. Can you nfs mount it? I pulled all the NFS stuff out of the kernel, alas! well, put it back in then :) You'd only need the client stuff on the small-harddrive machine of course. Is it also stripped out of the server? I extended the usable lifetime of a p90 laptop like this. It was short on space and I had neither the money or inclination at the time to buy an expensive laptop-size harddrive. Whenever I needed to update, I just mounted the servers exported /usr/ports [snip] I've never used cvsup or portupgrade or anything like that. ...ummm this is rather like a windows admin saying s/he never updates windows. All software develops holes or vunerabilities are found. I'll have to look into this when time permits. It seems like a lot of effort for something that normally isn't done very much on a production system (presumably one is not constantly installing and deinstalling software on a production server). Updating. yes you are constantly updating on a production server, unless your idea of fun is somebody compromising your machine. It is especially true on a production server. You can automate some, but not all, of the updating, because automatic updating is not without its own risks (think updating firefox v. updating exim). -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
John wrote: On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 23:13:51 +0100, Anthony Atkielski wrote John writes: 1. you mentioned that you had the ports tree on another machine. Can you nfs mount it? I pulled all the NFS stuff out of the kernel, alas! well, put it back in then :) You'd only need the client stuff on the small-harddrive machine of course. Is it also stripped out of the server? I extended the usable lifetime of a p90 laptop like this. It was short on space and I had neither the money or inclination at the time to buy an expensive laptop-size harddrive. Whenever I needed to update, I just mounted the servers exported /usr/ports [snip] I've never used cvsup or portupgrade or anything like that. ...ummm this is rather like a windows admin saying s/he never updates windows. All software develops holes or vunerabilities are found. You can patch the base system manually as you don't really get many advisories. So strictly speaking you don't need cvsup for the base. For ports you could use porteasy to install ports without the whole ports tree. Does anyone know why that port is in the misc and not the sysutils directory? You could also just use pkg_add to get the packages you want but I doubt you will be able to get packages for everything. You really need a test machine to install the ports and set everything up nicely and then package it up and send it to the production system. I'll have to look into this when time permits. It seems like a lot of effort for something that normally isn't done very much on a production system (presumably one is not constantly installing and deinstalling software on a production server). Updating. yes you are constantly updating on a production server, unless your idea of fun is somebody compromising your machine. It is especially true on a production server. You can automate some, but not all, of the updating, because automatic updating is not without its own risks (think updating firefox v. updating exim). -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
Chris Hodgins writes: Well if you are doing all this you will carry out the updates to your test machine first and validate everything works fine. Once you are happy build a package from it and add it to your production server. I am not sure how you would verify a package as big as firefox or openoffice without doing this. Currently my experimentation is limited solely to the test machine; I have no plans to move any of the experiments to the production server, which is running just fine as-is (although I did install smartctl on it, as I can definitely use that to keep tabs on server health). -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
John writes: well, put it back in then :) You'd only need the client stuff on the small-harddrive machine of course. Is it also stripped out of the server? Yes. I saw it as an unnecessary overhead and a security risk. I extended the usable lifetime of a p90 laptop like this. It was short on space and I had neither the money or inclination at the time to buy an expensive laptop-size harddrive. Whenever I needed to update, I just mounted the servers exported /usr/ports An interesting idea, but I don't use ports or packages enough to justify trying to get NFS to work on my production server. ...ummm this is rather like a windows admin saying s/he never updates windows. If it's a Windows _server_, I never do any updates that are not absolutely necessary. All software develops holes or vunerabilities are found. If the holes present a risk in my environment, I'll update just enough to close them. Otherwise I won't change anything. Sometimes the cure is much worse than the disease. Updating. yes you are constantly updating on a production server, unless your idea of fun is somebody compromising your machine. Unless the OS is a Swiss cheese of bugs, constant updating is not necessary. If the OS is so insecure that you must constantly update just to stay ahead of the kiddies, it's time to think of installing a different OS. -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
Anthony Atkielski wrote: Updating. yes you are constantly updating on a production server, unless your idea of fun is somebody compromising your machine. Unless the OS is a Swiss cheese of bugs, constant updating is not necessary. If the OS is so insecure that you must constantly update just to stay ahead of the kiddies, it's time to think of installing a different OS. Hmmm, what exactly are Windows Updates?! Hmmm -- Best regards, Chris It is a simple task to make things complex, but a complex task to make them simple. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
Chris wrote: Anthony Atkielski wrote: Updating. yes you are constantly updating on a production server, unless your idea of fun is somebody compromising your machine. Unless the OS is a Swiss cheese of bugs, constant updating is not necessary. If the OS is so insecure that you must constantly update just to stay ahead of the kiddies, it's time to think of installing a different OS. Hmmm, what exactly are Windows Updates?! Hmmm I'm sorry folks - I just could not resist. It's Sunday, I must be too tired to have realized I did that. -- Best regards, Chris Just when you get really good at something, you don't need to do it anymore. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
Chris writes: Hmmm, what exactly are Windows Updates? Unnecessary. -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 00:53:29 +0100, Anthony Atkielski wrote Unless the OS is a Swiss cheese of bugs, constant updating is not necessary. If the OS is so insecure that you must constantly update just to stay ahead of the kiddies, it's time to think of installing a different OS. Were we discussing the OS? I thought we were discussing ports in general and firefox in particular. Ports have seperate security issues; they are not part of the OS, hence the security message displayed after any port is installed. Constant *vigilance* is neccesary - whether or not you update depends on the situation and the reason. In my earlier posts I was just trying to indicate how easy this would be with portupgrade. Now I find that there's something even easier called porteasy, and you apparently don't need the entire ports tree to use it. this system is great :) so many different ways of accomplishing the same goal. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
- Original Message - From: John [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 12:38 AM Subject: Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere? On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 00:53:29 +0100, Anthony Atkielski wrote Unless the OS is a Swiss cheese of bugs, constant updating is not necessary. If the OS is so insecure that you must constantly update just to stay ahead of the kiddies, it's time to think of installing a different OS. Were we discussing the OS? I thought we were discussing ports in general and firefox in particular. Ports have seperate security issues; they are not part of the OS, hence the security message displayed after any port is installed. Constant *vigilance* is neccesary - whether or not you update depends on the situation and the reason. In my earlier posts I was just trying to indicate how easy this would be with portupgrade. Now I find that there's something even easier called porteasy, and you apparently don't need the entire ports tree to use it. this system is great :) so many different ways of accomplishing the same goal. there is also portmanager :) cali ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
On Sat, Feb 26, 2005 at 03:48:21PM +0100, Anthony Atkielski wrote: Chris writes: If you don't have the ports tree (/usr/ports) on the box, put it there. I don't have 300 MB to spare, particularly for something that I will use so rarely. Is there no machine you can nfs mount a ports tree from? I do it all the time and set the following environment variables in bash: export DISTDIR=$HOME/ports/distfiles export PACKAGES=$HOME/ports/packages export WRKDIRPREFIX=$HOME/ports/work export PORTS_DBDIR=$HOME/ports Then I have a shared and up-to-date ports tree for all my machines. If I just want to install packages then I use: portupgrade -R -PP www/firefox You should also be able to browse the ftp site by hand or check out freshports.org and get the package that way too, but it doesn't handle dependencies as nicely. Also, if your trying to install the linux version, then make sure linux-XFree86-libs is installed as well as some version of linux_base. What's wrong with getting the index from the FTP site when I run sysinstall? Seems to me that it would guarantee that the ports are always up to date. -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- I sense much NT in you. NT leads to Bluescreen. Bluescreen leads to downtime. Downtime leads to suffering. NT is the path to the darkside. Powerful Unix is. Public Key: ftp://ftp.tallye.com/pub/lorenl_pubkey.asc Fingerprint: B3B9 D669 69C9 09EC 1BCD 835A FAF3 7A46 E4A3 280C ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
On Saturday 26 February 2005 03:41 am, Anthony Atkielski wrote: I'm currently struggling with the Xfce environment and I'd like to install Firefox, but neither the Firefox site nor anywhere else I've looked thus far has comprehensive installation instructions for the product on FreeBSD (or any flavor of UNIX, apparently). Is there a page somewhere that describes how it is done? The installer is complaining about a library that I don't have (libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0), even though I thought I had everything I needed. It appears to be built as a compat lib. Locate places it in /usr/compat/linux/usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0 Kent -- Kent Stewart Richland, WA http://users.owt.com/kstewart/index.html ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
I'm currently struggling with the Xfce environment and I'd like to install Firefox, but neither the Firefox site nor anywhere else I've looked thus far has comprehensive installation instructions for the product on FreeBSD (or any flavor of UNIX, apparently). Is there a page somewhere that describes how it is done? The installer is complaining about a library that I don't have (libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0), even though I thought I had everything I needed. -- Anthony # pkg-add -r firefox or # cd /usr/ports/www/firefox make install clean distclean That's what ports and packages are there for, after all. -- PGP: http://www.darklogik.org/pub/pgp/pgp.txt B776 43DC 8A5D EAF9 2126 9A67 A7DA 390F DEFF 9DD1 pgpVl7gjpXtrJ.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 12:41:52 +0100 Anthony Atkielski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm currently struggling with the Xfce environment and I'd like to install Firefox, but neither the Firefox site nor anywhere else I've looked thus far has comprehensive installation instructions for the product on FreeBSD (or any flavor of UNIX, apparently). 1) if you want to use the plain FreeBSD-version you have basically 2 (easy) options : a) if you're sticking to RELEASE, a pkg_add -r firefox should work b) cd /usr/ports/www/firefox/ ; make install clean 2) if you want to use the linux-version, check the /usr/ports/www/ linux-firefox port if you've never used the ports, make sure to read this : http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/cvsup.html and /usr/ports/UPDATING ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 4:02 AM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere? On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 12:41:52 +0100 Anthony Atkielski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm currently struggling with the Xfce environment and I'd like to install Firefox, but neither the Firefox site nor anywhere else I've looked thus far has comprehensive installation instructions for the product on FreeBSD (or any flavor of UNIX, apparently). 1) if you want to use the plain FreeBSD-version you have basically 2 (easy) options : a) if you're sticking to RELEASE, a pkg_add -r firefox should work b) cd /usr/ports/www/firefox/ ; make install clean Do a portupgrade first. Firefox depends on a lot of stuff. 2) if you want to use the linux-version, check the /usr/ports/www/ linux-firefox port You don't want to use this version. It's slower. Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
markzero writes: # pkg-add -r firefox I tried that, and it works, but the version installed is a preview version that's well behind the current 1.0.1. And even after installing it from the ports, I still can't install the most recent version; it keeps complaining about that missing module. That's what ports and packages are there for, after all. Yes, but the versions are not always current. I've used the ports to install most of the stuff, as long as the version numbers were recent. -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
Kent Stewart writes: It appears to be built as a compat lib. Locate places it in /usr/compat/linux/usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0 It's not there on my system. I did install Linux compatibility, and the directory is there and filled with files, but that specific file is not present. How do I put it there? -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
Ted Mittelstaedt writes: Do a portupgrade first. Firefox depends on a lot of stuff. I don't have the ports on the local machine. I go directly to the FTP server each time I install something. Shouldn't they all be up to date in that case? The only Firefox version I see is 0.9, even though the current one is 1.0.1. -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
Anthony Atkielski wrote: Ted Mittelstaedt writes: Do a portupgrade first. Firefox depends on a lot of stuff. I don't have the ports on the local machine. I go directly to the FTP server each time I install something. Shouldn't they all be up to date in that case? The only Firefox version I see is 0.9, even though the current one is 1.0.1. This is simple. As someone has pointed out before, you need cvsup the ports tree then a portupgrade. Yes, after the cvsup and portupgrade you will have 1.0.1 Also note, that even after a cvsup and portupgrade, you will not always have the latest, greatest version of a port. It all depends on the maintainer of the port and how much time they have to do the work etc, etc, etc. -- Best regards, Chris No matter how large the work space, if two projects must be done at the same time they will require the same part of the work space. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 14:14:19 +0100, Anthony Atkielski wrote Ted Mittelstaedt writes: Do a portupgrade first. Firefox depends on a lot of stuff. I don't have the ports on the local machine. I go directly to the FTP server each time I install something. Shouldn't they all be up to date in that case? The only Firefox version I see is 0.9, even though the current one is 1.0.1. It would help you if you installed the ports tree and portupgrade (and cvsup it every day via cron to keep it up-to-date). If you did that, you would bave been able to do like I have just done: [EMAIL PROTECTED] portupgrade -rR firefox [Updating the pkgdb format:bdb1_btree in /var/db/pkg ... - 241 packages found --- Upgrading 'firefox-1.0_7,1' to 'firefox-1.0.1,1' (www/firefox) [etc] just makes life easier instead of manually adding packages.. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
Chris writes: This is simple. As someone has pointed out before, you need cvsup the ports tree then a portupgrade. Yes, after the cvsup and portupgrade you will have 1.0.1 There is no ports tree on the machine, so it cannot be out of date. Isn't the index downloaded from the FTP site each time I start sysinstall always up to date? If not, how can I update something that isn't even on my system? -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
Anthony Atkielski wrote: Chris writes: This is simple. As someone has pointed out before, you need cvsup the ports tree then a portupgrade. Yes, after the cvsup and portupgrade you will have 1.0.1 There is no ports tree on the machine, so it cannot be out of date. Isn't the index downloaded from the FTP site each time I start sysinstall always up to date? If not, how can I update something that isn't even on my system? If you don't have the ports tree (/usr/ports) on the box, put it there. You can do this either via sysinstall or nab the ports tarball from FBSD. -- Best regards, Chris If you fool around with a thing for very long you will screw it up. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
John writes: It would help you if you installed the ports tree and portupgrade (and cvsup it every day via cron to keep it up-to-date). If you did that, you would bave been able to do like I have just done: But I figured that if I always pull the index from an FTP site, it's guaranteed to be up to date. Isn't that true? I'm never going to install more than a small fraction of the ports, so putting the entire tree on my site seems wasteful, especially if I have to constantly update it. I do have the tree on my production server, but only because I had a lot more disk space to play with. -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
Anthony Atkielski wrote: John writes: It would help you if you installed the ports tree and portupgrade (and cvsup it every day via cron to keep it up-to-date). If you did that, you would bave been able to do like I have just done: But I figured that if I always pull the index from an FTP site, it's guaranteed to be up to date. Isn't that true? I'm never going to install more than a small fraction of the ports, so putting the entire tree on my site seems wasteful, especially if I have to constantly update it. I do have the tree on my production server, but only because I had a lot more disk space to play with. Read the CVSup info on the FBSD site. There are ways (it escapes me at the moment) to exclude things from the cvsup, IE: languages etc. -- Best regards, Chris If you fool around with a thing for very long you will screw it up. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
Chris writes: If you don't have the ports tree (/usr/ports) on the box, put it there. I don't have 300 MB to spare, particularly for something that I will use so rarely. What's wrong with getting the index from the FTP site when I run sysinstall? Seems to me that it would guarantee that the ports are always up to date. -- Anthony ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
Anthony Atkielski wrote: Chris writes: If you don't have the ports tree (/usr/ports) on the box, put it there. I don't have 300 MB to spare, particularly for something that I will use so rarely. What's wrong with getting the index from the FTP site when I run sysinstall? Seems to me that it would guarantee that the ports are always up to date. I can't honestly answer that one. There is also a command to fetch the index (without the need for sysinstall). What you propose seems logical - I have never been faced with a space issue, so I can't answer one way or the other. -- Best regards, Chris If two wrongs don't make a right, try three. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
Anthony Atkielski wrote: John writes: It would help you if you installed the ports tree and portupgrade (and cvsup it every day via cron to keep it up-to-date). If you did that, you would bave been able to do like I have just done: But I figured that if I always pull the index from an FTP site, it's guaranteed to be up to date. Isn't that true? I'm never going to install more than a small fraction of the ports, so putting the entire tree on my site seems wasteful, especially if I have to constantly update it. I do have the tree on my production server, but only because I had a lot more disk space to play with. There is a port called porteasy that you could use to grab only what you want from the port tree. Not used it myself before but I have seen a few people mention it. You should be aware though that by installing firefox you will be installing a lot of other ports that firefox depends on as well. Chris ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
Anthony Atkielski wrote: Chris writes: If you don't have the ports tree (/usr/ports) on the box, put it there. I don't have 300 MB to spare, particularly for something that I will use so rarely. What's wrong with getting the index from the FTP site when I run sysinstall? Seems to me that it would guarantee that the ports are always up to date. Well, I've been under the impression for a while that sysinstall is not necessarily reliable in terms of getting the most current information; not because of its design, necessarily, but because of some details about layout, building world, etc. Keep in mind that this is my take on the question, and I'm basically nobody (and will mention that fact again.) A crunched binary version of sysinstall exists in /stand. A couple (or 3?? - I knew this once) of years ago sysinstall was moved to /usr/sbin in -CURRENT and now lives there in the 5.X branch. On a 5.X machine, then, you have two sysinstalls that may or may not be the same date, (and most likely aren't) and certainly may vary in some way: [668] Sat 26.Feb.2005 14:14:01 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ll /usr/sbin/sysinstall ll /stand/sysinstall -r-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel 411336 Feb 12 10:34 /usr/sbin/sysinstall* -r-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel 2148964 Apr 23 2004 /stand/sysinstall* Now consider the following note Murray Stokely writes in /doc/en/articles/releng/ (he's discussing preparatory steps for building a RELEASE): Sysinstall should be updated to note the number of available ports and the amount of disk space required for the Ports Collection. This information is currently kept in src/release/sysinstall/dist.c. So, it's my best guess (as I said, IANAE) that /usr/sbin/sysinstall will not know about anything later than the date obtained by uname -a (last system rebuild, whatever), and /stand/sysinstall may have hoplessly out of date information (unless you are in the habit of crunching new binaries for /stand every time you upgrade the system; most people probably don't?). Now, I'm not saying I'm right, because I don't even know the exact procedure you're describing in using sysinstall for getting the index, but most of my experiences using it to try and do anything in terms of packages/ports seem to indicate that it has basically one idea of where to look, and that idea isn't the newest ports tree. I could be wrong. Kevin Kinsey ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
Kevin Kinsey wrote:
Well, I've been under the impression for a while that sysinstall
is not necessarily reliable ...
big snip
I need to add, in order that my previous post not go into the archives
as absolute fact, and that I not be considered by the general public
as more of an idiot than I might already have confirmed, that I
don't use sysinstall for much, and did just go back into that
program to the location Configure Options, where you can set
an {environment?} variable for sysinstall to look for a certain
release.
Now, if that can be set to CURRENT (or, more likely, HEAD),
then sysinstall might well grab you a current ports index ... if
it can do *that* at all.
I am sure that if your sysinstall is set to, say, 5.1-RELEASE (which
is no longer supported), it's not likely to find any packages at all.
Sorry for the FUD, if it's considered thusly.
Kevin Kinsey
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Re: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 15:41:51 +0100, Anthony Atkielski wrote But I figured that if I always pull the index from an FTP site, it's guaranteed to be up to date. Isn't that true? It guarantees that the index will be up-to-date [0]. The index is not the port skeleton. To be honest, I don't know the depths of how make index works. I just know that make readmes or portupgrade will complain if I use a refuse file in /usr/ports/sup and tell me to make index [1]. Beforehand, I used the refuse file so I didn't have to cvsup stuff I wasn't going to install. I'm never going to install more than a small fraction of the ports, so putting the entire tree on my site seems wasteful, especially if I have to constantly update it. I suppose I'm nit-picking here, but you would cron it rather than running it by hand. I do have the tree on my production server, but only because I had a lot more disk space to play with. How much space have you got to play with? If space is tight, running make distclean after make install helps, as does periodically deleting the contents of /usr/ports/distfiles A refuse file would have helped you. Can anyone explain or point to a reference as to why this no longer works? [2] [0] if you mean, by pull the index from an ftp site cd /usr/ports make index [1] this behaviour started happening at 4.10 or thereabouts. I don't know why, and I haven't had the time to research it. [2] well, the refuse file works. But the fact that the ports tree has been altered makes 'make readmes' complain. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Installation instructions for Firefox somewhere?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Chris writes: This is simple. As someone has pointed out before, you need cvsup the ports tree then a portupgrade. Yes, after the cvsup and portupgrade you will have 1.0.1 There is no ports tree on the machine, so it cannot be out of date. Isn't the index downloaded from the FTP site each time I start sysinstall always up to date? Yes, but THAT index your looking at is only for the PRECOMPILED programs - the packages. These are not updated except right before a release. The ports uses a different INDEX. If not, how can I update something that isn't even on my system? For the absolute vast majority of software packages that are covered by the ports tree, the ports tree that is installed from the FreeBSD cdrom's or distribution is adequate. You can just make install right out of that tree with no problem. Firefox is different because it has not been out long and still is undergoing a lot of development by the Mozilla people. As a result the port for it changes quite a lot. Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
