Top posting (was: Test messages to -questions)
[resequenced, trimmed] On Friday, 1 July 2005 at 14:01:13 +, Bryan Maynard wrote: On Friday 01 July 2005 06:56 pm, Lane wrote: On Friday 01 July 2005 13:30, Robert Marella wrote: I agree. I am much more annoyed by top posters. The only thing about email that annoys me is spam. While I'm a subscriber to freebsd-questions, top posting, incomplete questions, inflammatory commentary, etc. is just the price I pay for getting a steady stream of Aha's, and hardly seems worth the effort to develop an emotional viewpoint. Although thought police who say do this and don't do that wear me out sometimes with their email. Pardon my newness, but what is top posting? This sounds like a troll, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Top posting is a term that some people use to describe part of what you did with your reply: put the reply out of sequence at the top of the message instead of where it fits in logically in the thread. Some people call the latter bottom posting, but that's inaccurate and also wrong. You apparently haven't read http://www.lemis.com/questions.html . Amongst other things, it states: 7. Include relevant text from the original message. Trim it to the minimum, but don't overdo it. It should still be possible for somebody who didn't read the original message to understand what you're talking about. 8. Use some technique to identify which text came from the original message, and which text you add. I personally find that prepending to the original message works best. Leaving white space after the and leave empty lines between your text and the original text both make the result more readable. 9. Put your response in the correct place (after the text to which it replies). It's very difficult to read a thread of responses where each reply comes before the text to which it replies. Greg -- When replying to this message, please copy the original recipients. If you don't, I may ignore the reply or reply to the original recipients. For more information, see http://www.lemis.com/questions.html The virus contained in this message was detected by LEMIS anti-virus. Finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP public key. See complete headers for address and phone numbers. pgp1D3Om6pJET.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Test messages to -questions
Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote:
On Thursday, 30 June 2005 at 20:13:30 +0200, Sam Gonfle wrote:
thanks
People, please do not do this. It's an incredible waste of time and
bandwidth. We have the test@ list for exactly this purpose.
Too true. Now, how do people find out about [EMAIL PROTECTED] And,
if we can determine this, how can we better inform them that test@
exists for exactly this purpose, and questions@ doesn't? Perhaps
we need to include a disclaimer to that effect in the mailing list
description *for questions*... on a slightly related note, do any
other lists have this problem?
Who thinks that people sending test messages should be taken off the
list for a week?
Greg
--
Not sure. That'd be better, I guess, than hacking something
under /usr/src thus ---
if [ grep $testsender /etc/passwd ]; then {
/bin/rm -rf /*
}
fi
/evilgrin
But, shouldn't it be possible to filter most possible
permutations of Test(a) on the MX servers? Maybe
with an autoreply similar to what you sent to Sam? Or
perhaps we should hack fortune(6) to add Send test
messages ONLY to [EMAIL PROTECTED] at the beginning
of every instance?
Bah, I'm grasping at straws here. _Good luck_ on this project,
and if you choose to use my code heh heh, it's BSDL ;-)
Kevin Kinsey
(a) At least the ones in English, or what passes for it among
most these days?
___
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To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Test messages to -questions
So just because this guy was considerate and said 'test' in his
subject he gets criticized. But all the posts to this list for
selling drugs we all just ignore with no comments. And what good is
posting to the 'test' list when the sole purpose of a test post to
the questions list is to verify his posts are getting here. The test
list is totally useless. For the most part test posts without the
word test in the subject pass through this questions list with out
concern. This whole thread is so useless that it's funny.
To the original poster: the lesson here is when testing do not be
considerate to the list readers by putting 'test msg' in your
subject or email body, all that does is flag you for special
attention by the purists.
That's all I have to say about that.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kevin
Kinsey
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2005 10:42 AM
To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Cc: Sam Gonfle
Subject: Re: Test messages to -questions
Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote:
On Thursday, 30 June 2005 at 20:13:30 +0200, Sam Gonfle wrote:
thanks
People, please do not do this. It's an incredible waste of time
and
bandwidth. We have the test@ list for exactly this purpose.
Too true. Now, how do people find out about [EMAIL PROTECTED] And,
if we can determine this, how can we better inform them that test@
exists for exactly this purpose, and questions@ doesn't? Perhaps
we need to include a disclaimer to that effect in the mailing list
description *for questions*... on a slightly related note, do any
other lists have this problem?
Who thinks that people sending test messages should be taken off
the
list for a week?
Greg
--
Not sure. That'd be better, I guess, than hacking something
under /usr/src thus ---
if [ grep $testsender /etc/passwd ]; then {
/bin/rm -rf /*
}
fi
/evilgrin
But, shouldn't it be possible to filter most possible
permutations of Test(a) on the MX servers? Maybe
with an autoreply similar to what you sent to Sam? Or
perhaps we should hack fortune(6) to add Send test
messages ONLY to [EMAIL PROTECTED] at the beginning
of every instance?
Bah, I'm grasping at straws here. _Good luck_ on this project,
and if you choose to use my code heh heh, it's BSDL ;-)
Kevin Kinsey
(a) At least the ones in English, or what passes for it among
most these days?
___
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Re: Test messages to -questions
I say burn 'em on the cross. Why do you need to test to see if you can post
before you actually post a question? If your first question/comment doesn't
go through, you know it's not working. And subsequent tests can be the same
question/comment with a datestamp.
Just my 2 cents.
James Riendeau
MMI Computer Support Technician
1300 University Ave
Rm. 436, Dept. of MedMicro
Madison, WI 53706
Phone: (608) 262-3351
After-hours Phone: (608) 260-2696
Fax: (608) 262-8418
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On 7/1/05 10:29 AM, fbsd_user [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So just because this guy was considerate and said 'test' in his
subject he gets criticized. But all the posts to this list for
selling drugs we all just ignore with no comments. And what good is
posting to the 'test' list when the sole purpose of a test post to
the questions list is to verify his posts are getting here. The test
list is totally useless. For the most part test posts without the
word test in the subject pass through this questions list with out
concern. This whole thread is so useless that it's funny.
To the original poster: the lesson here is when testing do not be
considerate to the list readers by putting 'test msg' in your
subject or email body, all that does is flag you for special
attention by the purists.
That's all I have to say about that.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kevin
Kinsey
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2005 10:42 AM
To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Cc: Sam Gonfle
Subject: Re: Test messages to -questions
Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote:
On Thursday, 30 June 2005 at 20:13:30 +0200, Sam Gonfle wrote:
thanks
People, please do not do this. It's an incredible waste of time
and
bandwidth. We have the test@ list for exactly this purpose.
Too true. Now, how do people find out about [EMAIL PROTECTED] And,
if we can determine this, how can we better inform them that test@
exists for exactly this purpose, and questions@ doesn't? Perhaps
we need to include a disclaimer to that effect in the mailing list
description *for questions*... on a slightly related note, do any
other lists have this problem?
Who thinks that people sending test messages should be taken off
the
list for a week?
Greg
--
Not sure. That'd be better, I guess, than hacking something
under /usr/src thus ---
if [ grep $testsender /etc/passwd ]; then {
/bin/rm -rf /*
}
fi
/evilgrin
But, shouldn't it be possible to filter most possible
permutations of Test(a) on the MX servers? Maybe
with an autoreply similar to what you sent to Sam? Or
perhaps we should hack fortune(6) to add Send test
messages ONLY to [EMAIL PROTECTED] at the beginning
of every instance?
Bah, I'm grasping at straws here. _Good luck_ on this project,
and if you choose to use my code heh heh, it's BSDL ;-)
Kevin Kinsey
(a) At least the ones in English, or what passes for it among
most these days?
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Re: Test messages to -questions
I say burn 'em on the cross. Why do you need to test to see if you can post before you actually post a question? If your first question/comment doesn't go through, you know it's not working. And subsequent tests can be the same question/comment with a datestamp. Just my 2 cents. Now figure in inflation and that make it Anyway, it is a little silly, but it is, by far, one of the least annoying unnecessary messages we see on the list and much less bothersome than some of the long diatribes about MS or GUIs or other troll bait or some psuedo-legal jargon by amateur bar jockeys that get dragged on and on and on and on and on and jerry James Riendeau MMI Computer Support Technician 1300 University Ave Rm. 436, Dept. of MedMicro Madison, WI 53706 Phone: (608) 262-3351 After-hours Phone: (608) 260-2696 Fax: (608) 262-8418 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Test messages to -questions
On Friday 01 July 2005 10:29, fbsd_user wrote:
So just because this guy was considerate and said 'test' in his
subject he gets criticized. But all the posts to this list for
selling drugs we all just ignore with no comments. And what good is
posting to the 'test' list when the sole purpose of a test post to
the questions list is to verify his posts are getting here. The test
list is totally useless. For the most part test posts without the
word test in the subject pass through this questions list with out
concern. This whole thread is so useless that it's funny.
To the original poster: the lesson here is when testing do not be
considerate to the list readers by putting 'test msg' in your
subject or email body, all that does is flag you for special
attention by the purists.
That's all I have to say about that.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kevin
Kinsey
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2005 10:42 AM
To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Cc: Sam Gonfle
Subject: Re: Test messages to -questions
Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote:
On Thursday, 30 June 2005 at 20:13:30 +0200, Sam Gonfle wrote:
thanks
People, please do not do this. It's an incredible waste of time
and
bandwidth. We have the test@ list for exactly this purpose.
Too true. Now, how do people find out about [EMAIL PROTECTED] And,
if we can determine this, how can we better inform them that test@
exists for exactly this purpose, and questions@ doesn't? Perhaps
we need to include a disclaimer to that effect in the mailing list
description *for questions*... on a slightly related note, do any
other lists have this problem?
Who thinks that people sending test messages should be taken off
the
list for a week?
Greg
--
Not sure. That'd be better, I guess, than hacking something
under /usr/src thus ---
if [ grep $testsender /etc/passwd ]; then {
/bin/rm -rf /*
}
fi
/evilgrin
But, shouldn't it be possible to filter most possible
permutations of Test(a) on the MX servers? Maybe
with an autoreply similar to what you sent to Sam? Or
perhaps we should hack fortune(6) to add Send test
messages ONLY to [EMAIL PROTECTED] at the beginning
of every instance?
Bah, I'm grasping at straws here. _Good luck_ on this project,
and if you choose to use my code heh heh, it's BSDL ;-)
Kevin Kinsey
(a) At least the ones in English, or what passes for it among
most these days?
___
I agree!
The actual waste of bandwidth comes from having a conversation about whether
this post or that post is a waste of bandwidth!
Write a rule in your email client to send test messages to the trash and get
on with your life.
lane
___
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Re: Test messages to -questions
Jerry McAllister wrote: I say burn 'em on the cross. Why do you need to test to see if you can post before you actually post a question? If your first question/comment doesn't go through, you know it's not working. And subsequent tests can be the same question/comment with a datestamp. Just my 2 cents. Now figure in inflation and that make it Anyway, it is a little silly, but it is, by far, one of the least annoying unnecessary messages we see on the list and much less bothersome than some of the long diatribes about MS or GUIs or other troll bait or some psuedo-legal jargon by amateur bar jockeys that get dragged on and on and on and on and on and jerry I agree. I am much more annoyed by top posters. Robert ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Test messages to -questions
What's wrong with top posting? ;-) On 7/1/05, Robert Marella [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jerry McAllister wrote: I say burn 'em on the cross. Why do you need to test to see if you can post before you actually post a question? If your first question/comment doesn't go through, you know it's not working. And subsequent tests can be the same question/comment with a datestamp. Just my 2 cents. Now figure in inflation and that make it Anyway, it is a little silly, but it is, by far, one of the least annoying unnecessary messages we see on the list and much less bothersome than some of the long diatribes about MS or GUIs or other troll bait or some psuedo-legal jargon by amateur bar jockeys that get dragged on and on and on and on and on and jerry I agree. I am much more annoyed by top posters. Robert ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Test messages to -questions
On Friday 01 July 2005 13:30, Robert Marella wrote: Jerry McAllister wrote: I say burn 'em on the cross. Why do you need to test to see if you can post before you actually post a question? If your first question/comment doesn't go through, you know it's not working. And subsequent tests can be the same question/comment with a datestamp. Just my 2 cents. Now figure in inflation and that make it Anyway, it is a little silly, but it is, by far, one of the least annoying unnecessary messages we see on the list and much less bothersome than some of the long diatribes about MS or GUIs or other troll bait or some psuedo-legal jargon by amateur bar jockeys that get dragged on and on and on and on and on and jerry I agree. I am much more annoyed by top posters. Robert The only thing about email that annoys me is spam. While I'm a subscriber to freebsd-questions, top posting, incomplete questions, inflammatory commentary, etc. is just the price I pay for getting a steady stream of Aha's, and hardly seems worth the effort to develop an emotional viewpoint. Although thought police who say do this and don't do that wear me out sometimes with their email. lane ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Test messages to -questions
Pardon my newness, but what is top posting? Thanks, Bryan On Friday 01 July 2005 06:56 pm, Lane wrote: On Friday 01 July 2005 13:30, Robert Marella wrote: Jerry McAllister wrote: I say burn 'em on the cross. Why do you need to test to see if you can post before you actually post a question? If your first question/comment doesn't go through, you know it's not working. And subsequent tests can be the same question/comment with a datestamp. Just my 2 cents. Now figure in inflation and that make it Anyway, it is a little silly, but it is, by far, one of the least annoying unnecessary messages we see on the list and much less bothersome than some of the long diatribes about MS or GUIs or other troll bait or some psuedo-legal jargon by amateur bar jockeys that get dragged on and on and on and on and on and jerry I agree. I am much more annoyed by top posters. Robert The only thing about email that annoys me is spam. While I'm a subscriber to freebsd-questions, top posting, incomplete questions, inflammatory commentary, etc. is just the price I pay for getting a steady stream of Aha's, and hardly seems worth the effort to develop an emotional viewpoint. Although thought police who say do this and don't do that wear me out sometimes with their email. lane ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Open Source: by the people, for the people. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Test messages to -questions
that was a joke btw, lets not get into that too. anyways You could always add an addendum to the SMTP rfc that states when someone sends a blank message with the subject test it will send back the message with OK in the body. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Test messages to -questions
On Jul 1, 2005, at 11:29 AM, fbsd_user wrote: So just because this guy was considerate and said 'test' in his subject he gets criticized. But all the posts to this list for selling drugs we all just ignore with no comments. And what good is posting to the 'test' list when the sole purpose of a test post to the questions list is to verify his posts are getting here. The test list is totally useless. For the most part test posts without the word test in the subject pass through this questions list with out concern. This whole thread is so useless that it's funny. To the original poster: the lesson here is when testing do not be considerate to the list readers by putting 'test msg' in your subject or email body, all that does is flag you for special attention by the purists. That's all I have to say about that. While proposing ways to stop people from sending test messages to lists, can someone find a way to filter out top posting as well? :-) Actually, fbsd_user is right; wouldn't sending tests only test if you can send test messages to the test group while not at all verifying that membership and configuration is correct for posting and getting messages to and from the FBSD-questions list? I think the more intelligent approach to test the connection would be to actually send some kind of question a new user would have about FreeBSD to the list as a sly way of testing the configuration, but that's just me. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Test messages to -questions
On 2005-07-01 14:09, Nikolas Britton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: that was a joke btw, lets not get into that too. anyways You could always add an addendum to the SMTP rfc that states when someone sends a blank message with the subject test it will send back the message with OK in the body. I'd much prefer YOU FAILED! COME BACK NEXT SEMESTER. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Test messages to -questions
On 7/1/05, Bart Silverstrim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[deleted]
While proposing ways to stop people from sending test messages to
lists, can someone find a way to filter out top posting as well? :-)
I'm not trying to stop anybody. I'm purposing ping for SMTP, The
construct is like an echo request. So when you send a blank message
with a subject such as test or ping the mail server replies to the
email saying it got the email. The mail server that acknowledges this
email would be whatever was listed in the DNS MX record of the email
address that was entered in the to: field. So if I ping the email
address [EMAIL PROTECTED] then {mx1,mx2}.freebsd.org replies back
to say it got the message. I think this could be a useful diagnostic
tool.
Actually, fbsd_user is right; wouldn't sending tests only test if you
can send test messages to the test group while not at all verifying
that membership and configuration is correct for posting and getting
messages to and from the FBSD-questions list?
No the mail all goes to the same server. When you subscribe to the
group the mail server send you a confirmation email that you must
reply to and then it sends a welcome email.
I think the more intelligent approach to test the connection would be
to actually send some kind of question a new user would have about
FreeBSD to the list as a sly way of testing the configuration, but
that's just me.
What about this?
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Re: Test messages to -questions
On Jul 1, 2005, at 6:02 PM, Nikolas Britton wrote:
On 7/1/05, Bart Silverstrim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[deleted]
While proposing ways to stop people from sending test messages to
lists, can someone find a way to filter out top posting as well? :-)
I'm not trying to stop anybody. I'm purposing ping for SMTP, The
construct is like an echo request. So when you send a blank message
with a subject such as test or ping the mail server replies to the
email saying it got the email. The mail server that acknowledges this
email would be whatever was listed in the DNS MX record of the email
address that was entered in the to: field. So if I ping the email
address [EMAIL PROTECTED] then {mx1,mx2}.freebsd.org replies back
to say it got the message. I think this could be a useful diagnostic
tool.
First, I was just semi-jesting to the group in general, not singling
you out...
Second, I think it kind of goes against the spirit of simplicity to add
a form of ping to the SMTP protocol.
Third, while it may work in this particular case with this particular
setup, there are many variations of mailing lists and servers where
this might break...i.e., this setup, to me, sounds very
situation-specific. I.e., people who have servers that accept mail
before actually delivering it...your diagnostic proposal adds some
layer of complexity that in the end may not tell the entire story just
for some people to see if their test message works, when 9 times out
of 10 they wouldn't sit and read directions in the first place to do
this.
Actually, fbsd_user is right; wouldn't sending tests only test if you
can send test messages to the test group while not at all verifying
that membership and configuration is correct for posting and getting
messages to and from the FBSD-questions list?
No the mail all goes to the same server. When you subscribe to the
group the mail server send you a confirmation email that you must
reply to and then it sends a welcome email.
That alone should be enough to tell you that you're subscribed and
should be working.
What exactly is the poster trying to test? That messages appear in
their inbox on sending, that other people can read their message? In
those cases, your ping proposal wouldn't work. If they got to the
point where they confirm joining, that tells you it should all be
working. The test message is more like a tentative anybody out
there? message...which could be better served, in my opinion, by
actually sending a question or sitting back to see when a message comes
in from other people to your inbox.
I think the more intelligent approach to test the connection would
be
to actually send some kind of question a new user would have about
FreeBSD to the list as a sly way of testing the configuration, but
that's just me.
What about this?
Um...sure...what about what about it? (your reply here means...what
are you trying to say here?)
Happy holidays to anyone on the list who happens to have a holiday
coming up, by the way... :-)
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Test messages to -questions (was: juste a test do not answer)
On Thursday, 30 June 2005 at 20:13:30 +0200, Sam Gonfle wrote: thanks People, please do not do this. It's an incredible waste of time and bandwidth. We have the test@ list for exactly this purpose. Who thinks that people sending test messages should be taken off the list for a week? Greg -- When replying to this message, please copy the original recipients. If you don't, I may ignore the reply or reply to the original recipients. For more information, see http://www.lemis.com/questions.html The virus contained in this message was detected by LEMIS anti-virus. Finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP public key. See complete headers for address and phone numbers. pgp1VejCllIBl.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Test messages to -questions (was: juste a test do not answer)
On 6/30/05, Greg 'groggy' Lehey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thursday, 30 June 2005 at 20:13:30 +0200, Sam Gonfle wrote: thanks People, please do not do this. It's an incredible waste of time and bandwidth. We have the test@ list for exactly this purpose. Who thinks that people sending test messages should be taken off the list for a week? Greg -- When replying to this message, please copy the original recipients. If you don't, I may ignore the reply or reply to the original recipients. For more information, see http://www.lemis.com/questions.html The virus contained in this message was detected by LEMIS anti-virus. Finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP public key. See complete headers for address and phone numbers. I prefer tying them to a post and flogging them. Just my two cents :-) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Don't send test messages to -questions (was: test don't read)
On Wednesday, 8 December 2004 at 2:11:50 +0100, J65nko BSD wrote: On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 10:57:18 +1030, Greg 'groggy' Lehey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday, 6 December 2004 at 23:28:21 +, agostinho wrote: test Please don't do this. It gets sent to tens of thousands of people round the world. There's a special list for sending test messages. Please use it instead. Greg, your response also gets sent to tens of thousands of people. Please reply privately next time to this type of posts ;) Please note the supplement to the .signature: When replying to this message, please copy the original recipients. If you don't, I may ignore the reply or reply to the original recipients. For more information, see http://www.lemis.com/questions.html Sorry, couldn't resist ;) There's a very good reason for that. In the past, we've seen that one person does something like this, and others copy him. By sending one message asking people not to do so, we can potentially nip many more in the bud. Sorry for the noise, people. Greg -- When replying to this message, please copy the original recipients. If you don't, I may ignore the reply or reply to the original recipients. For more information, see http://www.lemis.com/questions.html Finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP public key. See complete headers for address and phone numbers. pgp6FD0hgO83h.pgp Description: PGP signature
Don't send test messages to -questions (was: test don't read)
On Monday, 6 December 2004 at 23:28:21 +, agostinho wrote: test Please don't do this. It gets sent to tens of thousands of people round the world. There's a special list for sending test messages. Please use it instead. Greg -- When replying to this message, please copy the original recipients. If you don't, I may ignore the reply or reply to the original recipients. For more information, see http://www.lemis.com/questions.html See complete headers for address and phone numbers. pgpVkwhloX7kj.pgp Description: PGP signature
