Re: Resume broken in 8.3-PRERELEASE
On Friday 02 March 2012 20:25:32 Jung-uk Kim wrote: On Friday 02 March 2012 03:50 am, Alexey Dokuchaev wrote: On Thu, Mar 01, 2012 at 04:55:03PM -0500, Jung-uk Kim wrote: It does not make a difference for me (i.e., usb suspend/resume still broken) but I think I found a typo: --- sys/dev/usb/controller/usb_controller.c (revision 232365) +++ sys/dev/usb/controller/usb_controller.c (working copy) @@ -407,7 +407,7 @@ usb_bus_suspend(struct usb_proc_msg *pm) USB_BUS_UNLOCK(bus); - bus_generic_shutdown(bus-bdev); + bus_generic_suspend(bus-bdev); usbd_enum_lock(udev); Same thing here, does not seem to improve anything. It might suspend, resume (with keyboard working), then die on next suspend completely. Or it may die on the first suspend (without suspending -- fans are spinning, screen is black and no response to anything except hard power-off), this actually happens more often. Try the attached patch. At least, it fixed my problem. Hi, I've committed your patch with some minor modifications. http://svn.freebsd.org/changeset/base/232448 Will you take care of the MFC to 8.3-RC + 8-stable? --HPS ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: flowtable usable or not
on 03/03/2012 08:44 H said the following: let's face some reality. Let's do that. Forever installing FreeBSD Desktop, either KDE or Gnome, was a nightmare process, or better, to make it appear on screen was a nightmare. This has not been my experience (reality). -- Andriy Gapon ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: flowtable usable or not
Andriy Gapon wrote: on 03/03/2012 08:44 H said the following: let's face some reality. Let's do that. Forever installing FreeBSD Desktop, either KDE or Gnome, was a nightmare process, or better, to make it appear on screen was a nightmare. This has not been my experience (reality). of course not! but you do not count as well other developers and insiders do not, this kind of people we have a lot, BTW very capable people, if not the best ... but it depends on the angle of view and the question to be answered ... why we do not have more desktops out, why normal technicians and administrator do prefer Linux or Windows Workstations/server? because we do not attract them, it is to hard for them to find their way through so it is their eyes we have to look with -- H signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: flowtable usable or not
Bas Smeelen wrote: On 03/02/2012 07:42 PM, H wrote: Doug Barton wrote: ... and here is the crux of the problem. The vast majority of our developers don't use FreeBSD as their regular workstation. So it has increasingly become an OS where changes are being lobbed over the wall by developers who don't run systems that those changes affect. That's no way to run a railroad. Doug wow since it is not April 1st it must be revelation's day ...:) is this then the bottomline ? if [ $using_ports=YES ]; get_screwed($big_time); fi Hey people There are still a lot of us which might not be smart enough or lack the resources to help you debug issues but we still use and depend on FreeBSD, and we test, and hopefully give you some debugging hints I have some production servers running on STABLE and even some on CURRENT to stress our developers, but most run RELEASE and use freebsd-update Keep up the good work, it makes me a more confident sysadmin Ports is the best thing happening to me after going through al the apt and other stuff you talk like the wind blows my friend ... remembering your own most recent words in another occasion what certainly do not match your last sentence ... / On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 3:58 PM, Bas Smeelen b.smeelen at ose.nl http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions wrote: // // On Mon, 30 Jan 2012 12:52:07 -0500 // David Jackson djackson452 at gmail.com http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions wrote: // // I have tried endlessly to no avail to upgrade binary the packages // on Freebsd to the latest version. I have tried: // /... / // All fail miserably and totally and have left the system in an // unuseable state. // / / // // I wish to use binary packages and I specifically do not want to // compile anything, it tends to take far too long to compile programs // and would rather install some packages and have it all work right // away. Binary packages are a big time saver and are more efficient. It // should be easy for FreeBSD to make it easy to install the most recent // versions of all binary packages, its beyond belief they cannot pull // off such a simple ans straight forward, and basic part of any OS. / -- H signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: flowtable usable or not
H h...@hm.net.br wrote: ... Forever installing FreeBSD Desktop, either KDE or Gnome, was a nightmare process, or better, to make it appear on screen was a nightmare. I have never understood the point of KDE or Gnome, other than (perhaps) as eye candy for the uninitiated. If I wanted a Windows desktop, I would install Windows. If I wanted a Mac desktop, I would use a Mac. I do use a few applications that were written using the Gnome or KDE _toolkits_, but that doesn't require me to run the whole Gnome or KDE environment (aka resource hog). Fvwm2 seems to be a perfectly adequate window manager. ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: flowtable usable or not
On 03/03/2012 17:09, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: I have never understood the point of KDE or Gnome, other than (perhaps) as eye candy for the uninitiated. If I wanted a Windows desktop, I would install Windows. If I wanted a Mac desktop, I would use a Mac. And if you want a FreeBSD desktop with great integration between applications and the ability to change settings without reading man pages? You run FreeBSD with KDE or GNOME. -- Bruce Cran ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: flowtable usable or not
On 03/03/12 07:44, H wrote: Doug Barton wrote: [...] Sure, our strength is servers, and that is not going to change. I agree and disagree. Based upon the struggle with desktop usage and focus on development, FreeBSD is de facto more server oriented. But in comparison to several other non-BSD opensource server OS projects, the corridor of advantages in FreeBSD became and still become smaller and smaller. This is the experience of using FreeBSD now since 1995 as my favorite OS for servers I maintained for scientific projects and my personal desktop(s). Please don't take me wrong, but the conclusion of the strength of FBSD is due to its weakness - and this is not willingly, it is coincidentialy. But how many real-life bugs have I personally uncovered in -current as a result of actually running it (mostly) daily? I'm not the only one, certainly, but if the numbers were flipped and the vast majority of our developers *did* use FreeBSD routinely, how much better off would we be? Well, for an open source project this sounds to me a bit strange. Developers do not use the OS they developing for as their platform? This might be new to me and an old information for the majority of you developers, but I see strange implications ins that fact. FreeBSD is considered an open source project ran by volunteers (I receive this magic message in all forums I ever complained about some problems ...). Honestly and in terms on logic, I can not line up several points, sorry, I might be too dumb. Obviously not a development by heart but by payment? But this is OT here and I never could emphaszie people to follow my philosophical tracks (which might be inadequate for some sets of people ...). let's face some reality. Forever installing FreeBSD Desktop, either KDE or Gnome, was a nightmare process, or better, to make it appear on screen was a nightmare. Since myself (and some remnant we) use FreeBSD for both servers (development of scientific software, processing scientific stuff, modelling, rendering for PR products related in astrodynamics and planetary sciences) and as the desktop system of choice, I never found a friend in that performance eating thing KDE or GNOME and stayed long time with fvwm and now with windowmaker. Yes, this sounds like an echo from the past, but living like a monk and celebrating askesis in that fashion made me faster in some ways and independent from fast hardware and recent developments in X11, in which FreeBSd now turns out to get a position last in terms of modern display driver architectures. But I'm still impressed by the fancy and coloured desktops of PC-BSD, which I have ran for some people to lurde them into the BSD world ... Even if somebody got all packages into his system (by miracle?), it still did not popped up. Without some special knowledge _no_chance_. who knows, the guys who created and battled on area51 knew why they chose this name :) Still now, kde4, hours of install, missing packages, compiling and still nothing, somewhere over the process, flies over the screen please set kdm4_enable=YES ... I guess that will not be noticed by any user Even if some smart guy figures out that he needs xorg-server, the port or package do not select all it needs for running, its own drivers and so. How a user should know that? There is a windeco which installs hundreds of deps, even sound what do not work on FreeBSD, but xorg do not have deps for its functionality? god ... ohhh I forgot, that has nothing to do with the desktop itself , sorry for mentioning ... Maybe the logic behind the dependency system need a refurbish? I feel lost when trying to look into the vast number of of *.mk files and having to figure out myself how they get involved when building some essential ports. Each tweak seems to go into those files undocumented and the logical hierarchy isn't obvious, since many dependencies are hidden in GNOME/KDE related files. Not to mention the mess that ariose when I tried to follow a strict separartion of building the core FreeBSD UNIX only with /etc/src.conf leaving compiler options for non-/usr/src related software in make.conf. Obviously, they are mixed up in a way I get tired as a non-developer to keep on pace with.CLANG is a nice compiler, I like it, I use it now as the base compiler for everything, but the lack of OpenMP and optimizations for modern CPUs (Core-i7/Sandy Bridge/-E) makes it a bit unapplicable to several software packages I'd like to use. And the confusion using the legacy, outdated gcc 4.2.1 in the base system and replace it easily by gcc 4.6.3 or now 4.7.X is taking valuable working time. I think, and this is my personal opinion and view, it would be much better to sort out the confusion in the build system(s) and then start over. I guess there are a lot of options to do so, even now, but how to find documentation? Crawling scripts and source code to find out the logic and vast numbers of variables isn't a way. Even if
Re: flowtable usable or not
Back to the topic of the initial posting: Where can I find documentation for the idiot about flowtable? I can switch this to ON in the kernel config on FreeBSD 9.0-STABLE as well as in FreeBSD 10.0-CURRENT. But I can not find any hint what it is supposed to do, what benefit it could provide or what working environment it is aimed to. There are other kernel options, like IPI_PREEMPTION, which are very poor documented. I feel willing to switch on and off options and watch the system's behaviour, but I'm not willing to find out what those options are for by running a uncountable number of benchmarks or tests. It would be really nice to have a very intuitive way to find some notes on that. The NOTES files are not sufficient. Regards Oliver signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Fwd: Re: flowtable usable or not
on 03/03/2012 13:44 O. Hartmann said the following: Back to the topic of the initial posting: Where can I find documentation for the idiot about flowtable? I can switch this to ON in the kernel config on FreeBSD 9.0-STABLE as well as in FreeBSD 10.0-CURRENT. But I can not find any hint what it is supposed to do, what benefit it could provide or what working environment it is aimed to. There are other kernel options, like IPI_PREEMPTION, which are very poor documented. I feel willing to switch on and off options and watch the system's behaviour, but I'm not willing to find out what those options are for by running a uncountable number of benchmarks or tests. It would be really nice to have a very intuitive way to find some notes on that. The NOTES files are not sufficient. Maybe it would make sense to restore the original To/Cc list too? -- Andriy Gapon signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: flowtable usable or not
On 03/03/2012 10:18 AM, H wrote: you talk like the wind blows my friend ... remembering your own most recent words in another occasion what certainly do not match your last sentence ... What you 'mis'quote further down was not my writing. http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/2012-January/237779.html My reply to djackson was and more, see link above I understand your motivations. On my 1,6GHz celeron it takes a lot of time to compile the ~600 ports I use, especially chromium for instance and when I forget to give an option to not bother me with questions it sits there waiting for me to enter y or n. Ports/ packages are not `a basic part` of the FreeBSD OS. I also don't think it is simple and straight forward to satisfy all different user requirements and options in a package system. Ubuntu for my taste has had flukes in many ways many times in the past and still has (often enough the developers desktop users complain). It works good with complete upgrades at times, on the other hand it still leaves me sometimes with an unusable freezing OS on the desktop, and before every upgrade it has becomes mandatory to me to first try it with an USB boot. This is something I cannot have on server systems being used 24x7. / On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 3:58 PM, Bas Smeelenb.smeelen at ose.nlhttp://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions wrote: // // On Mon, 30 Jan 2012 12:52:07 -0500 // David Jacksondjackson452 at gmail.comhttp://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions wrote: // //I have tried endlessly to no avail to upgrade binary the packages //on Freebsd to the latest version. I have tried: // /... / //All fail miserably and totally and have left the system in an //unuseable state. // / / // // I wish to use binary packages and I specifically do not want to // compile anything, it tends to take far too long to compile programs // and would rather install some packages and have it all work right // away. Binary packages are a big time saver and are more efficient. It // should be easy for FreeBSD to make it easy to install the most recent // versions of all binary packages, its beyond belief they cannot pull // off such a simple ans straight forward, and basic part of any OS. / Disclaimer: http://www.ose.nl/email ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: flowtable usable or not
On 03/03/2012 10:18 AM, H wrote: Bas Smeelen wrote: On 03/02/2012 07:42 PM, H wrote: Doug Barton wrote: ... and here is the crux of the problem. The vast majority of our developers don't use FreeBSD as their regular workstation. So it has increasingly become an OS where changes are being lobbed over the wall by developers who don't run systems that those changes affect. That's no way to run a railroad. Doug wow since it is not April 1st it must be revelation's day ...:) is this then the bottomline ? if [ $using_ports=YES ]; get_screwed($big_time); fi Hey people There are still a lot of us which might not be smart enough or lack the resources to help you debug issues but we still use and depend on FreeBSD, and we test, and hopefully give you some debugging hints I have some production servers running on STABLE and even some on CURRENT to stress our developers, but most run RELEASE and use freebsd-update Keep up the good work, it makes me a more confident sysadmin Ports is the best thing happening to me after going through al the apt and other stuff you talk like the wind blows my friend ... remembering your own most recent words in another occasion what certainly do not match your last sentence ... The last sentences: In short: FreeBSD makes you think about what you are doing beforehand which makes a great way to upgrade/ update application, database e.g. on servers whithout running into service downtime. Other OS's don't or do it less. I like that a lot, it saves a lot of incoming phone calls. http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/2012-January/237779.html / On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 3:58 PM, Bas Smeelenb.smeelen at ose.nlhttp://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions wrote: // // On Mon, 30 Jan 2012 12:52:07 -0500 // David Jacksondjackson452 at gmail.comhttp://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions wrote: // //I have tried endlessly to no avail to upgrade binary the packages //on Freebsd to the latest version. I have tried: // /... / //All fail miserably and totally and have left the system in an //unuseable state. // / / // // I wish to use binary packages and I specifically do not want to // compile anything, it tends to take far too long to compile programs // and would rather install some packages and have it all work right // away. Binary packages are a big time saver and are more efficient. It // should be easy for FreeBSD to make it easy to install the most recent // versions of all binary packages, its beyond belief they cannot pull // off such a simple ans straight forward, and basic part of any OS. / Disclaimer: http://www.ose.nl/email ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: flowtable usable or not
Bas Smeelen wrote: // away. Binary packages are a big time saver and are more efficient. It // should be easy for FreeBSD to make it easy to install the most recent // versions of all binary packages, its beyond belief they cannot pull // off such a simple ans straight forward, and basic part of any OS. / come on, you really think I need lecturing about how to read threads? and I did not misquoted nothing, you are trying to save your ass here :) in the above excerpt _YOU_ are talking about packages and how easy it is ... and this cannot pull off thing ... then you tell us today that ports is the best ever happened to you Ports is the best thing happening to me after going through al the apt and other stuff but look my friend, either way, you're confirming this thread, as long as conflicts are in place, something needs improvement //* the following comment is not related to any living person, only a quote with personal note :) please lord forgive them, they don't know what they are doing (or talking about) *// -- H signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: flowtable usable or not
On 3/3/2012 22:32, H wrote: then you tell us today that ports is the best ever happened to you It definitely is for me, and is a major reason why I love FreeBSD. Yum/RPM/etc are not without their own issues, and definitely is not fool proof nor 100% reliable in my experience.
Re: flowtable usable or not
2012/3/2 Julian Elischer jul...@freebsd.org: On 3/2/12 10:21 AM, Doug Barton wrote: On 03/02/2012 03:44, K. Macy wrote: not sure who wrote: Correct. However, I'm not sure the analogy is flawed. I am, to some degree, guilty of the same sin. I now run Ubuntu and have never had a single problem keeping my package system up date, in stark contrast to my experiences of slow and nightmarishly error-ridden port updates. but I use the PBIs from pcbsd.. you REALLY don't have this problem with them. (Thanks Kip for the heads up on the thread) It's well known that software has bugs; unfortunately PCBSD (I mention this because of PBIs noted above) isn't immune from bugs either -- they're just manifested in a different way. I think everyone here on the CC list has FreeBSD's best intentions in mind, but let's work together to improve the OS instead of causing discord with one another. Personally, I think that adding knobs with sane defaults (and we can debate about that and there will be disagreement on what is important and what is not) will go a long way because then people can pick and choose what they want to keep and what they want to toss as far as OS support is concerned. This is one of the strong selling points of Linux, OSX, Solaris, Windows, etc. Less effort is required to get greater profit without having to mess around with things because they fit the generic case as opposed to a number of niche cases or provide OS features that a user may or may not use. Thanks, -Garrett ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: flowtable usable or not
On Sat, 2012-03-03 at 03:44 -0300, H wrote: Doug Barton wrote: Just looking at the committers, of which we have over 300, only a couple dozen at most have ever identified as actually using FreeBSD as a desktop at my count. Taking the larger development community into account I think the numbers are a little better, but not much. Sure, our strength is servers, and that is not going to change. eventually that could be a good starting point, good question is, why not? But how many real-life bugs have I personally uncovered in -current as a result of actually running it (mostly) daily? I'm not the only one, certainly, but if the numbers were flipped and the vast majority of our developers *did* use FreeBSD routinely, how much better off would we be? again, why? let's face some reality. Forever installing FreeBSD Desktop, either KDE or Gnome, was a nightmare process, or better, to make it appear on screen was a nightmare. Even if somebody got all packages into his system (by miracle?), it still did not popped up. Without some special knowledge _no_chance_. who knows, the guys who created and battled on area51 knew why they chose this name :) Still now, kde4, hours of install, missing packages, compiling and still nothing, somewhere over the process, flies over the screen please set kdm4_enable=YES ... I guess that will not be noticed by any user Even if some smart guy figures out that he needs xorg-server, the port or package do not select all it needs for running, its own drivers and so. How a user should know that? There is a windeco which installs hundreds of deps, even sound what do not work on FreeBSD, but xorg do not have deps for its functionality? god ... ohhh I forgot, that has nothing to do with the desktop itself , sorry for mentioning ... Anybody can tell how somebody can find all this out? Don't say by reading because we need to look at the real facts and that is nobody want to read, they want a desktop nothing else, something silly and easy to read email and write docs and surf on the net, listen to a CD, they need to put a cd into the drive, running install process, reboot, using, nothing else and such a thing ... we do not have so where this potential users should come from? Only from heaven ... And before anyone bothers to point it out, yes, I happen to be using Windows at this exact moment. I have some layer 9 work to get done and I need tools that are only available to me in Windows (more's the pity). The sad thing is, judging by the activity on the -ports@ list, the traffic in #bsdports, and just talking to/interacting with FreeBSD users, a lot of *them* are not only interested in FreeBSD as a desktop OS, they are actually doing it. IMO the weakest point is that we do not have the packages ready. Even if lots of you do not like it to hear, fact is that we must look around and see how others do it. Windows, whatever it is, it is easy to install for everybody. Same for Fedora, in order to stay with a Unix system, package handling, update with YUM on Fedora hardly fails. ALL packages are compiled, you never need to compile anything. Even if you need 800MB of packages, yum picks them all, installs them all, and all is fine up top date. Such a process is where we need to get orientation from. If it was my decision, it should be go to ports=no_no, packages=YES I mean, as long as the packages are not complete and ready, no new port version should be released or announced So who dares,understand and can or like adventures, compiles from ports Such a decision would help FreeBSD in all means and would help the users as well, in any case it will create more users Why somebody should chose FreeBSD as his daily desktop, oh man, only some die-hard-guys like you and me, but you know, that is not hours of work, that is days, weeks and constant setbacks for whatever reasons ... that is not for anybody. And you are right, no traffic on the specific lists, why? because the three on the list, two can help themselves (you and me) and the other is the moderator ... :) not even the port maintainer/packager is on that list ... :) ps. the last statement might be exaggerated and might not be valid in all cases, so please do not shoot When the announcement of the 8.3-BETA1 release was made on these lists I had just finished building a new machine to become my everyday desktop machine for code development. I figured I should download and install using the new beta to help test the release. I was disappointed to find that the packages weren't on the beta dvd ISO, so the test wasn't as complete as I was hoping in terms of being similar to what a new user would experience. I ran through the sysinstall process without any glitches and rebooted to a working text-mode system. Then I did, from my notes: pkg_add -r for the following: sudo rsync
Re: A problem with MAXPATHLEN on a back
On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 02:40:09PM +0100, Willem Jan Withagen wrote: I'm running into this on a backup-backupserver. (8.2-STABLE #134: Wed Feb 1 15:05:59 CET 2012 amd64) Haven't checked which paths are too long. But is there any easy way out? Like making MAXPATHLEN 2048 and rebuilding locate. Or is that going to propagate and major impact all and everything. Rebuilding locate database: locate: integer out of +-MAXPATHLEN (1024): 1031 locate: integer out of +-MAXPATHLEN (1024): 1031 It should be possible to replace (sed -i) MAXPATHLEN with something else in the locate source and recompile it. Changing the value of MAXPATHLEN itself is not safe because it defines the size of various buffers in the ABI (such as the one passed to realpath() if its resolved_path parameter is not NULL); in any case, it is a very intrusive change. Locate uses find(1) to generate its list of files, and find's output is not subject to MAXPATHLEN (unless the -L option or the -follow primary is used). Almost any use of the very long pathnames will require a manual split-up though (cd'ing to an initial part shorter than MAXPATHLEN, then repeating the process with relative pathnames until the remaining part is shorter than MAXPATHLEN). -- Jilles Tjoelker ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: flowtable usable or not
O. Hartmann wrote: Maybe the logic behind the dependency system need a refurbish? I feel lost when trying to look into the vast number of of *.mk files and having to figure out myself how they get involved when building some essential ports. Each tweak seems to go into those files undocumented and the logical hierarchy isn't obvious, since many dependencies are hidden in GNOME/KDE related files. it is kind of hard discussing logic here, certainly we are coming to the end of the natural thermodynamics chain, expansion=chaos=order which also is a logic, letting the things in hand of natural orders is no good, too slow in first place, too many victims in second so eventually we use algebra and separate stuff, so what do we have? Base System Ports Packages so now comes a logic question before anything else target is what? more users how? the base system is pretty good, stable and secure, but this is not enough, to get more users we need other stuff on the table Even if lots of you do not like it to hear, fact is that we must look around and see how others do it. Windows, whatever it is, it is easy to install for everybody. Well, this is right. But do not forget that even those fancy and easy to use installation framework hide a lot of the underlying system's hierarchy and logic. Look at all the Linux systems, trying to get on par with Windows. How long did they raped Linux to get it that way looking? of course, but we do not fear work at the end they looked for the target's needs and understood that that is the only point what matters for success If it was my decision, it should be go to ports=no_no, packages=YES In such a case, there would be no reason anymore to use FreeBSD! I want to use the system as fast as possible on desktop, so binary packages should be all right. But on servers, I'd like to squeeze out the last nanosecond I can grab by using dedicated compiler options. So I wnt to have the choise! My freedom, my responsibility and also the freedom to slow slow with the young horses ... that is not what I said or meant first my saying is for/from user perspective, repeating, cd into the drive, install, boot, ready to go, without fiddling around - that is one and perhaps the only straight possibility to reach and get more users you are not a common user, of course ports will stay alive for whom likes, needs or want it decide for my own how much brain I want to invest into understanding my OS - or even not. At this very point, I can, up to a certain point, decide how much time I want to spend on understanding. Others can not, by natural selection, they need to be stuck with binaries. or they exactly I mean, as long as the packages are not complete and ready, no new port version should be released or announced Why not? How should the free open source community then ever help to debug? I guess what you think about is to have a more strict RELEASE/STABLE/CURRENT/ based policy also for the ports system? I would agree. again recalling, user perspective and no, complete is the keyword before announcing an available upgrade, all necessary packages should be ready so that the common user do not get caught in some compiling process So who dares,understand and can or like adventures, compiles from ports It is not simple as that. The logic starts at the compiler's point. GCC 4.2.1 isn't an option in many cases, CLANG unsuitable (openMP). well, right or wrong, that is then issue for whom likes to compile, we do not speak about it because that is what we have, but that is not good for the users, still less for getting more users On the other hand, who should provide all the binary coverage? As you could see, the user domain of FreeBSD is shrinking. And even my the maintainer/packager today we are with some kind of mess because there are no rules today nobody cares because the actual FreeBSD horde is completely or almost composed of developers or insiders or programmers or lovers, so why making packages? No one requires them developers have other interests as users have Such a decision would help FreeBSD in all means and would help the users as well, in any case it will create more users Yes, well said, but a bit false. World has changed since the last 50 years, politically. Monolithic capitalism with a herd of dumb, mean animals only want to touch and use. Monolithic socialism creates mean don't be so harsh on people because it is the constructor who builds your house but he wants to read email and surf the net ... for that he certainly do not need to learn to compile or read Makefiles, but of course, he tells his wife how stupid this nerd is which do not know the name of the wood he uses :) so let skip this part Why somebody should chose FreeBSD as his daily desktop, oh man, only some die-hard-guys like you and me, but you know, that is not hours of work, that is days, weeks and constant setbacks for whatever reasons
Re: flowtable usable or not
On Sat, 2012-03-03 at 09:09 -0800, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: H h...@hm.net.br wrote: ... Forever installing FreeBSD Desktop, either KDE or Gnome, was a nightmare process, or better, to make it appear on screen was a nightmare. I have never understood the point of KDE or Gnome, other than (perhaps) as eye candy for the uninitiated. If I wanted a Windows desktop, I would install Windows. If I wanted a Mac desktop, I would use a Mac. I've been getting paid to develop software since 1975 -- I'm hardly what you would call the uninitiated. I couldn't imagine working without a fully functional desktop environment. Look at a calendar, it's 2012. Maybe you long for a return to punch cards and fanfold greenbar paper, but I'm not going back there. It's exactly because I don't want a Windows or Mac desktop that I use gnome. (I used to be a Mac user, starting in the 80s, but Apple lost their way during their struggle to survive 10 years ago. Soon you won't be able to boot a Mac without an account at the iTunes store, and my last Mac will go into the e-cycle pile at that point.) -- Ian ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Request for flowtable testers and actionable feedback RE: flowtable usable or not
I'm re-sending this portion of another mail as it will inevitably not be read by most readers by virtue of having been part of a long and digressive thread. subject line: flowtable usable or not It is possible to re-structure the routing code to have a smaller cache footprint / shorter lookup time / and eliminate all locking in the packet transmit path (ip_output, ip_forward). However, it would take more time and effort than I have to do so as a recreational activity. The set of people able to fund such an effort is non-intersecting with the set of people who would benefit the most heavily from it. Hence, for the time being, for those who want to be able to approach anywhere near 1Mpps, much less 10 or 15 times that, whilst continuing to use the regular stack (i.e. not running netmap) we are left only with flowtable for bypassing the locking and compute overhead of per-packet route lookups. It is beyond debate that under some, if not many, circumstances flowtable was unusable and perhaps continues to be. Hence, any further reports of it was broken so I turned it off, and now my life is better should be left unsent. If you, the reader, are willing to contribute to the testing of changes, provide backtraces from cores etc. please follow up. Thank you for your support. Cheers, Kip -- “The real damage is done by those millions who want to 'get by.' The ordinary men who just want to be left in peace. Those who don’t want their little lives disturbed by anything bigger than themselves. Those with no sides and no causes. Those who won’t take measure of their own strength, for fear of antagonizing their own weakness. Those who don’t like to make waves—or enemies. Those for whom freedom, honour, truth, and principles are only literature. Those who live small, love small, die small. It’s the reductionist approach to life: if you keep it small, you’ll keep it under control. If you don’t make any noise, the bogeyman won’t find you. But it’s all an illusion, because they die too, those people who roll up their spirits into tiny little balls so as to be safe. Safe?! From what? Life is always on the edge of death; narrow streets lead to the same place as wide avenues, and a little candle burns itself out just like a flaming torch does. I choose my own way to burn.” Sophie Scholl ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: flowtable usable or not
Less effort is required to get greater profit without having to mess around with things because they fit the generic case as opposed to a number of niche cases or provide OS features that a user may or may not use. My initial venting of my frustrations at Doug appears to have turned an open-ended discussion of FreeBSD's merits as a desktop vs. a server OS. I don't have the inclination to read every response closely, but I think that it is generating more heat than light. I have three points that I would like to make before I attempt to transition this thread back to its initial purpose: a) We as a members of the community are collectively responsible for the state of FreeBSD. Simply disabling features or removing functionality that doesn't work or doesn't work optimally and / or filing bug reports but not being able or willing to respond to feedback requests is in essence a form of neglect. Although we all have day to day obligations for which the use of FreeBSD is extremely impractical if not impossible ... any progress, any improvements, any advancements will only happen because *we* made it happen. b) There are many features and many changes that are introduced in to FreeBSD which extend the potential user base which are of no obvious benefit to many users. Just because one doesn't need a feature and doesn't hear users crying out for it, doesn't mean that it isn't important. c) My grievance was in no way with Doug Barton or ports per se, but with his response as a representative instance of a behaviour which bothers me, and, taken over time, is detrimental to the whole. Back to the initial subject line: flowtable usable or not It is possible to re-structure the routing code to have a smaller cache footprint / shorter lookup time / and eliminate all locking in the packet transmit path (ip_output, ip_forward). However, it would take more time and effort than I have to do so as a recreational activity. The set of people able to fund such an effort is non-intersecting with the set of people who would benefit the most heavily from it. Hence, for the time being, for those who want to be able to approach anywhere near 1Mpps, much less 10 or 15 times that, whilst continuing to use the regular stack (i.e. not running netmap) we are left only with flowtable for bypassing the locking and compute overhead of per-packet route lookups. It is beyond debate that under some, if not many, circumstances flowtable was unusable and perhaps continues to be. Hence, any further reports of it was broken so I turned it off, and now my life is better should be left unsent. If you, the reader, are willing to contribute to the testing of changes, provide backtraces from cores etc. please follow up. Thank you for your support. Cheers, Kip -- “The real damage is done by those millions who want to 'get by.' The ordinary men who just want to be left in peace. Those who don’t want their little lives disturbed by anything bigger than themselves. Those with no sides and no causes. Those who won’t take measure of their own strength, for fear of antagonizing their own weakness. Those who don’t like to make waves—or enemies. Those for whom freedom, honour, truth, and principles are only literature. Those who live small, love small, die small. It’s the reductionist approach to life: if you keep it small, you’ll keep it under control. If you don’t make any noise, the bogeyman won’t find you. But it’s all an illusion, because they die too, those people who roll up their spirits into tiny little balls so as to be safe. Safe?! From what? Life is always on the edge of death; narrow streets lead to the same place as wide avenues, and a little candle burns itself out just like a flaming torch does. I choose my own way to burn.” Sophie Scholl ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: msk0: interrupt storm
On Fri, Mar 02, 2012 at 10:05:54AM -0800, YongHyeon PYUN wrote: Still have no idea. Would you post dmesg output? Sure, just let me know if you need anything else. Now running with hw.msk.msi_disable=1 hw.msk.jumbo_disable=1 still getting the storms, the above settings just seem to make them less severe/often. If you know how to reproduce the issue, let me know. Any network activity will do, sometimes even just fetching new mail from pop.gmail.com via POP3 over SSL. So here's the dmesg as well as some other relevant bits: $ vmstat -i interrupt total rate irq9: acpi0 81 0 irq16: mskc0 uhci0 4419739456 irq17: cbb0 fwohci+ 6085 0 irq18: uhci2 ehci0+2 0 irq20: hpet0 4333544447 irq23: uhci3 ehci132 0 irq257: hdac0 1 0 irq258: hdac1 36 0 irq260: ahci0 169843 17 Total8929363921 ### currently configured with -rxcsum, ### but it doesn't seem to make any difference $ ifconfig msk0 msk0: flags=8843UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST metric 0 mtu 1500 options=c011aTXCSUM,VLAN_MTU,VLAN_HWTAGGING,TSO4,VLAN_HWTSO,LINKSTATE ether 00:17:42:c8:2a:2f inet 192.168.1.3 netmask 0xff00 broadcast 192.168.1.255 inet6 fe80::217:42ff:fec8:2a2f%msk0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x5 nd6 options=29PERFORMNUD,IFDISABLED,AUTO_LINKLOCAL media: Ethernet autoselect (1000baseT full-duplex,flowcontrol,rxpause,txpause) status: active $ dmesg Copyright (c) 1992-2012 The FreeBSD Project. Copyright (c) 1979, 1980, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. FreeBSD is a registered trademark of The FreeBSD Foundation. FreeBSD 9.0-RELEASE #0: Tue Jan 3 07:46:30 UTC 2012 r...@farrell.cse.buffalo.edu:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC amd64 CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU P8400 @ 2.26GHz (2261.05-MHz K8-class CPU) Origin = GenuineIntel Id = 0x10676 Family = 6 Model = 17 Stepping = 6 Features=0xbfebfbffFPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CLFLUSH,DTS,ACPI,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,SS,HTT,TM,PBE Features2=0x8e3fdSSE3,DTES64,MON,DS_CPL,VMX,SMX,EST,TM2,SSSE3,CX16,xTPR,PDCM,SSE4.1 AMD Features=0x20100800SYSCALL,NX,LM AMD Features2=0x1LAHF TSC: P-state invariant, performance statistics real memory = 3221225472 (3072 MB) avail memory = 3068252160 (2926 MB) Event timer LAPIC quality 400 ACPI APIC Table: FUJFJNB1ED FreeBSD/SMP: Multiprocessor System Detected: 2 CPUs FreeBSD/SMP: 1 package(s) x 2 core(s) cpu0 (BSP): APIC ID: 0 cpu1 (AP): APIC ID: 1 ioapic0 Version 2.0 irqs 0-23 on motherboard kbd1 at kbdmux0 acpi0: FUJ PC on motherboard acpi0: Power Button (fixed) Timecounter HPET frequency 14318180 Hz quality 950 Event timer HPET frequency 14318180 Hz quality 450 Event timer HPET1 frequency 14318180 Hz quality 440 Event timer HPET2 frequency 14318180 Hz quality 440 Event timer HPET3 frequency 14318180 Hz quality 440 Timecounter ACPI-safe frequency 3579545 Hz quality 850 acpi_timer0: 24-bit timer at 3.579545MHz port 0x408-0x40b on acpi0 cpu0: ACPI CPU on acpi0 cpu1: ACPI CPU on acpi0 acpi_ec0: Embedded Controller: GPE 0x17 port 0x62,0x66 on acpi0 pcib0: ACPI Host-PCI bridge port 0xcf8-0xcff on acpi0 pci0: ACPI PCI bus on pcib0 pcib1: ACPI PCI-PCI bridge irq 16 at device 1.0 on pci0 pci1: ACPI PCI bus on pcib1 vgapci0: VGA-compatible display port 0x2000-0x20ff mem 0xf000-0xf7ff,0xfa00-0xfa00 irq 16 at device 0.0 on pci1 drm0: ATI Mobility Radeon HD 3400 Series on vgapci0 info: [drm] MSI enabled 1 message(s) info: [drm] Initialized radeon 1.31.0 20080613 hdac0: ATI RV620 High Definition Audio Controller mem 0xfa01-0xfa013fff irq 17 at device 0.1 on pci1 uhci0: Intel 82801I (ICH9) USB controller port 0x1800-0x181f irq 16 at device 26.0 on pci0 usbus0: Intel 82801I (ICH9) USB controller on uhci0 uhci1: Intel 82801I (ICH9) USB controller port 0x1820-0x183f irq 17 at device 26.1 on pci0 usbus1: Intel 82801I (ICH9) USB controller on uhci1 uhci2: Intel 82801I (ICH9) USB controller port 0x1840-0x185f irq 18 at device 26.2 on pci0 usbus2: Intel 82801I (ICH9) USB controller on uhci2 ehci0: Intel 82801I (ICH9) USB 2.0 controller mem 0xfa704800-0xfa704bff irq 18 at device 26.7 on pci0 usbus3: EHCI version 1.0 usbus3: Intel 82801I (ICH9) USB 2.0 controller on ehci0 hdac1: Intel 82801I High Definition Audio Controller mem 0xfa70-0xfa703fff irq 22 at device 27.0 on pci0 pcib2: ACPI PCI-PCI bridge irq 17 at device 28.0 on pci0 pci8: ACPI PCI bus on pcib2 mskc0: Marvell Yukon 88E8055 Gigabit Ethernet port 0x3000-0x30ff mem 0xfa10-0xfa103fff irq 16 at device 0.0 on pci8 msk0: Marvell Technology Group Ltd.
missing disk device under 9-STABLE
Hi, I attempted an upgrade last night from an old 8-STABLE (25 Apr 2011) to 9-STABLE and ran into a problem where a disk apparently wasn't detected. I'm of course aware of the ATA/CAM changes, but I haven't found anything that quite explains what's happening here. I've attached dmesg output from the 8-STABLE and 9-STABLE kernels as well as the results of 'ls -l /dev/ad*' and 'zpool status' under both kernels. ZFS seems to have figured out what to do about its ad4p3 member (switching to a gptid device), but since only ada0 is detected during boot, it can't complete the pool. The weird thing is, though, that the other disk was actually detected on one reboot to the 9.0 kernel, ZFS was happy, etc. I haven't been able to reproduce it, though. Due to these problems, I haven't upgraded userland yet and am of course sticking with the 8-STABLE kernel, but I can boot into the 9-STABLE kernel at will if anyone needs more information. Thanks for any help, Jeff pool: z0 state: ONLINE scrub: none requested config: NAMESTATE READ WRITE CKSUM z0 ONLINE 0 0 0 mirrorONLINE 0 0 0 ad4p3 ONLINE 0 0 0 ad6p3 ONLINE 0 0 0 errors: No known data errors # ls -l /dev/ad* lrwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel4 Mar 3 13:36 /dev/ad4 - ada0 lrwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel6 Mar 3 13:36 /dev/ad4p1 - ada0p1 lrwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel6 Mar 3 13:36 /dev/ad4p2 - ada0p2 lrwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel6 Mar 3 13:36 /dev/ad4p3 - ada0p3 crw-r- 1 root operator0, 118 Mar 3 13:36 /dev/ada0 crw-r- 1 root operator0, 120 Mar 3 13:36 /dev/ada0p1 crw-r- 1 root operator0, 122 Mar 3 13:36 /dev/ada0p2 crw-r- 1 root operator0, 124 Mar 3 13:36 /dev/ada0p3 # zpool status pool: z0 state: DEGRADED status: One or more devices could not be opened. Sufficient replicas exist for the pool to continue functioning in a degraded state. action: Attach the missing device and online it using 'zpool online'. see: http://www.sun.com/msg/ZFS-8000-2Q scrub: none requested config: NAMESTATE READ WRITE CKSUM z0 DEGRADED 0 0 0 mirrorDEGRADED 0 0 0 gptid/96a50b26-9de7-11de-9693-00261882fc65 ONLINE 0 0 0 ad6p3 UNAVAIL 0 0 0 cannot open errors: No known data errors Copyright (c) 1992-2011 The FreeBSD Project. Copyright (c) 1979, 1980, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. FreeBSD is a registered trademark of The FreeBSD Foundation. FreeBSD 8.2-STABLE #0 r221047: Mon Apr 25 23:03:11 EDT 2011 r...@crow.mr-happy.com:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC amd64 Timecounter i8254 frequency 1193182 Hz quality 0 CPU: AMD Phenom(tm) II X4 965 Processor (3411.64-MHz K8-class CPU) Origin = AuthenticAMD Id = 0x100f42 Family = 10 Model = 4 Stepping = 2 Features=0x178bfbffFPU,VME,DE,PSE,TSC,MSR,PAE,MCE,CX8,APIC,SEP,MTRR,PGE,MCA,CMOV,PAT,PSE36,CLFLUSH,MMX,FXSR,SSE,SSE2,HTT Features2=0x802009SSE3,MON,CX16,POPCNT AMD Features=0xee500800SYSCALL,NX,MMX+,FFXSR,Page1GB,RDTSCP,LM,3DNow!+,3DNow! AMD Features2=0x37ffLAHF,CMP,SVM,ExtAPIC,CR8,ABM,SSE4A,MAS,Prefetch,OSVW,IBS,SKINIT,WDT TSC: P-state invariant real memory = 8589934592 (8192 MB) avail memory = 7980056576 (7610 MB) ACPI APIC Table: 060509 APIC1006 FreeBSD/SMP: Multiprocessor System Detected: 4 CPUs FreeBSD/SMP: 1 package(s) x 4 core(s) cpu0 (BSP): APIC ID: 0 cpu1 (AP): APIC ID: 1 cpu2 (AP): APIC ID: 2 cpu3 (AP): APIC ID: 3 ACPI Warning: Optional field Pm2ControlBlock has zero address or length: 0x/0x1 (20101013/tbfadt-655) ioapic0 Version 2.1 irqs 0-23 on motherboard kbd1 at kbdmux0 acpi0: 060509 RSDT1006 on motherboard acpi0: [ITHREAD] acpi0: Power Button (fixed) acpi0: reservation of fee0, 1000 (3) failed acpi0: reservation of ffb8, 8 (3) failed acpi0: reservation of fec1, 20 (3) failed acpi0: reservation of 0, a (3) failed acpi0: reservation of 10, cfe0 (3) failed Timecounter ACPI-fast frequency 3579545 Hz quality 1000 acpi_timer0: 32-bit timer at 3.579545MHz port 0x808-0x80b on acpi0 cpu0: ACPI CPU on acpi0 cpu1: ACPI CPU on acpi0 cpu2: ACPI CPU on acpi0 cpu3: ACPI CPU on acpi0 acpi_hpet0: High Precision Event Timer iomem 0xfed0-0xfed003ff on acpi0 Timecounter HPET frequency 14318180 Hz quality 900 pcib0: ACPI Host-PCI bridge port 0xcf8-0xcff on acpi0 pci0: ACPI PCI bus on pcib0 pcib1: ACPI PCI-PCI bridge at device 1.0 on pci0 pci1: ACPI PCI bus on pcib1 vgapci0: VGA-compatible display port 0xa000-0xa0ff mem 0xd000-0xdfff,0xfbbe-0xfbbe,0xfba0-0xfbaf irq 18
Re: missing disk device under 9-STABLE
Hi. On 03.03.2012 21:08, Jeff Blank wrote: I attempted an upgrade last night from an old 8-STABLE (25 Apr 2011) to 9-STABLE and ran into a problem where a disk apparently wasn't detected. I'm of course aware of the ATA/CAM changes, but I haven't found anything that quite explains what's happening here. I've attached dmesg output from the 8-STABLE and 9-STABLE kernels as well as the results of 'ls -l /dev/ad*' and 'zpool status' under both kernels. ZFS seems to have figured out what to do about its ad4p3 member (switching to a gptid device), but since only ada0 is detected during boot, it can't complete the pool. The weird thing is, though, that the other disk was actually detected on one reboot to the 9.0 kernel, ZFS was happy, etc. I haven't been able to reproduce it, though. Due to these problems, I haven't upgraded userland yet and am of course sticking with the 8-STABLE kernel, but I can boot into the 9-STABLE kernel at will if anyone needs more information. This looks like cause of the missing disk: ahcich1: Timeout on slot 0 port 0 ahcich1: is 0002 cs ss rs 0001 tfd 50 serr cmd 6017 ahcich1: Timeout on slot 0 port 0 ahcich1: is 0002 cs ss rs 0001 tfd 50 serr cmd 6017 It tells that controller signals interrupt, but driver haven't got it. That is even more strange after the disk on first SATA port is working fine. You may try to add to your /boot/loader.conf line: hint.ahci.0.msi=0 , or just set it via loader prompt. -- Alexander Motin ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: flowtable usable or not
... and here is the crux of the problem. The vast majority of our developers don't use FreeBSD as their regular workstation !! Something is wrong with this picture! If not, why not?! ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: ports usable or not [was: flowtable usable or not]
Thanks mcl. I am off on other things for now but I will file PRs next time I come across something. In the past I have emailed the port maintainer and the answer is usually yeah I know. After a few of those I thought filing PRs is a waste of time considering the maintainer doesn't seem to care. ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: missing disk device under 9-STABLE
On Sat, Mar 03, 2012 at 09:51:53PM +0200, Alexander Motin wrote: This looks like cause of the missing disk: ahcich1: Timeout on slot 0 port 0 ahcich1: is 0002 cs ss rs 0001 tfd 50 serr cmd 6017 ahcich1: Timeout on slot 0 port 0 ahcich1: is 0002 cs ss rs 0001 tfd 50 serr cmd 6017 It tells that controller signals interrupt, but driver haven't got it. That is even more strange after the disk on first SATA port is working fine. You may try to add to your /boot/loader.conf line: hint.ahci.0.msi=0 , or just set it via loader prompt. Alexander, Thanks, that seemed to clear the problem up, no troubles through half a dozen or more reboots. Is disabling MSI likely to have any side effects on, for example, performance or reliability? Is there any point to pursuing this as a FreeBSD problem, since I didn't have any issues under the old ATA system? I'm happy to help troubleshoot this if anyone thinks it's worth looking into. thanks, Jeff ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: flowtable usable or not
On Sat, Mar 03, 2012 at 03:44:42AM -0300, H wrote: nobody want to read, they want a desktop nothing else, something silly and easy to read email and write docs and surf on the net, listen to a CD, they need to put a cd into the drive, running install process, reboot, using, nothing else and such a thing ... we do not have I really recommend this class of users investigate PC-BSD. It works right out of the box (all the type of work you are frustrated with has already been done, and is part of their release process). To my view, comparing FreeBSD to Ubuntu is apples-to-oranges. A much better point of comparison is PC-BSD to Ubuntu. I can't speak to whether or not PC-BSD will meet all your needs, but it is much more oriented to users than stock FreeBSD. mcl ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: flowtable usable or not
On 03/03/2012 08:53, K. Macy wrote: a) We as a members of the community are collectively responsible for the state of FreeBSD. Simply disabling features or removing functionality that doesn't work or doesn't work optimally and / or filing bug reports but not being able or willing to respond to feedback requests is in essence a form of neglect. Although we all have day to day obligations for which the use of FreeBSD is extremely impractical if not impossible ... any progress, any improvements, any advancements will only happen because *we* made it happen. Since we're reiterating key points, I'll do mine one more time. While I sympathize with what you wrote above, if you continue to believe that users have a responsibility to help you debug new features you're going to be disappointed and frustrated. Doug -- This .signature sanitized for your protection ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: flowtable usable or not
On 03/02/2012 16:05, Adrian Chadd wrote: Try breaking that cycle. ... one of the things I've been asking for years. :) Julian's right though, I think PC-BSD will help, but I still think that committers should run -current. I've asked privately for our committers to go back to -current and then have some dedicated development time where we work together to fix the problems that *we* find in order to make the project more desktop-friendly overall. I was (figuratively) laughed out of the room. Doug -- This .signature sanitized for your protection ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: flowtable usable or not
On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 9:54 PM, Doug Barton do...@freebsd.org wrote: On 03/03/2012 08:53, K. Macy wrote: a) We as a members of the community are collectively responsible for the state of FreeBSD. Simply disabling features or removing functionality that doesn't work or doesn't work optimally and / or filing bug reports but not being able or willing to respond to feedback requests is in essence a form of neglect. Although we all have day to day obligations for which the use of FreeBSD is extremely impractical if not impossible ... any progress, any improvements, any advancements will only happen because *we* made it happen. Since we're reiterating key points, I'll do mine one more time. While I sympathize with what you wrote above, if you continue to believe that *users* have a responsibility to help you debug new features you're going to be disappointed and frustrated. Users don't, community members do. So I guess I rest my case for you Doug. You're an end user at the end of the day who thinks he is a member of the community. As you've made apparent on other threads. In your mind Other People(TM) are responsible for FreeBSD's welfare for consuming your dogfood because you know the people who eat it. FreeBSD would still be at the UP stage or worse the 5.x stage if everyone thought the way you do. Individuals who fail to understand the distinction between simple user and community member and are confused by which role they play can only further contribute to the acrimony. -Kip ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: flowtable usable or not
On 03/03/2012 13:03, K. Macy wrote: On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 9:54 PM, Doug Barton do...@freebsd.org wrote: On 03/03/2012 08:53, K. Macy wrote: a) We as a members of the community are collectively responsible for the state of FreeBSD. Simply disabling features or removing functionality that doesn't work or doesn't work optimally and / or filing bug reports but not being able or willing to respond to feedback requests is in essence a form of neglect. Although we all have day to day obligations for which the use of FreeBSD is extremely impractical if not impossible ... any progress, any improvements, any advancements will only happen because *we* made it happen. Since we're reiterating key points, I'll do mine one more time. While I sympathize with what you wrote above, if you continue to believe that *users* have a responsibility to help you debug new features you're going to be disappointed and frustrated. Users don't, community members do. You're drawing a distinction that I don't. So I guess I rest my case for you Doug. You're an end user at the end of the day who thinks he is a member of the community. As you've made apparent on other threads. In your mind Other People(TM) are responsible for FreeBSD's welfare for consuming your dogfood because you know the people who eat it. Um, wow. Clearly you are either unable or unwilling to see my point, so I wish you all the best. -- This .signature sanitized for your protection ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: flowtable usable or not
On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 10:09 PM, Doug Barton do...@freebsd.org wrote: On 03/03/2012 13:03, K. Macy wrote: On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 9:54 PM, Doug Barton do...@freebsd.org wrote: On 03/03/2012 08:53, K. Macy wrote: a) We as a members of the community are collectively responsible for the state of FreeBSD. Simply disabling features or removing functionality that doesn't work or doesn't work optimally and / or filing bug reports but not being able or willing to respond to feedback requests is in essence a form of neglect. Although we all have day to day obligations for which the use of FreeBSD is extremely impractical if not impossible ... any progress, any improvements, any advancements will only happen because *we* made it happen. Since we're reiterating key points, I'll do mine one more time. While I sympathize with what you wrote above, if you continue to believe that *users* have a responsibility to help you debug new features you're going to be disappointed and frustrated. Users don't, community members do. You're drawing a distinction that I don't. I'm drawing a distinction that you don't make or can't make? Like I said I expect a group of people whose existence as a distinct entity you are unaware of to be helpful. The initial conflict stemmed from confusion on my part that you belong to that group. However, as you've repeatedly made clear you don't, so I was wrong to have been critical of you. I apologize for the confusion. Cheers ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: missing disk device under 9-STABLE
On 03.03.2012 22:21, Jeff Blank wrote: On Sat, Mar 03, 2012 at 09:51:53PM +0200, Alexander Motin wrote: This looks like cause of the missing disk: ahcich1: Timeout on slot 0 port 0 ahcich1: is 0002 cs ss rs 0001 tfd 50 serr cmd 6017 ahcich1: Timeout on slot 0 port 0 ahcich1: is 0002 cs ss rs 0001 tfd 50 serr cmd 6017 It tells that controller signals interrupt, but driver haven't got it. That is even more strange after the disk on first SATA port is working fine. You may try to add to your /boot/loader.conf line: hint.ahci.0.msi=0 , or just set it via loader prompt. Alexander, Thanks, that seemed to clear the problem up, no troubles through half a dozen or more reboots. Is disabling MSI likely to have any side effects on, for example, performance or reliability? Is there any point to pursuing this as a FreeBSD problem, since I didn't have any issues under the old ATA system? I'm happy to help troubleshoot this if anyone thinks it's worth looking into. MSI interrupts could give a bit better performance. But with regular HDDs I think it is unlikely that you notice any difference. What's about about old driver, it never used MSI by default, while new one does. What board and chipset do you use? Have you tried to update BIOS? Please show `pciconf -lvcb` output about the controller. -- Alexander Motin ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: missing disk device under 9-STABLE
On Sat, Mar 03, 2012 at 11:18:55PM +0200, Alexander Motin wrote: MSI interrupts could give a bit better performance. But with regular HDDs I think it is unlikely that you notice any difference. What's about about old driver, it never used MSI by default, while new one does. I see, thanks. What board and chipset do you use? Have you tried to update BIOS? Please I have not investigated a BIOS upgrade. I'll look into it. show `pciconf -lvcb` output about the controller. the AHCI driver attachment: ahci0@pci0:0:17:0: class=0x01018f card=0x43901002 chip=0x43901002 rev=0x00 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'ATI Technologies Inc' device = 'SB7x0/SB8x0/SB9x0 SATA Controller [IDE mode]' class = mass storage subclass = ATA bar [10] = type I/O Port, range 32, base 0x9000, size 8, enabled bar [14] = type I/O Port, range 32, base 0x8000, size 4, enabled bar [18] = type I/O Port, range 32, base 0x7000, size 8, enabled bar [1c] = type I/O Port, range 32, base 0x6000, size 4, enabled bar [20] = type I/O Port, range 32, base 0x5000, size 16, enabled bar [24] = type Memory, range 32, base 0xfb9ffc00, size 1024, enabled cap 05[50] = MSI supports 4 messages, 64 bit cap 12[70] = SATA Index-Data Pair the ATA driver attachment, included for completeness: atapci0@pci0:0:20:1:class=0x01018a card=0x439c1002 chip=0x439c1002 rev=0x00 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'ATI Technologies Inc' device = 'SB7x0/SB8x0/SB9x0 IDE Controller' class = mass storage subclass = ATA bar [20] = type I/O Port, range 32, base 0xff00, size 16, enabled cap 05[70] = MSI supports 2 messages thanks, Jeff ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: flowtable usable or not
Ian Lepore free...@damnhippie.dyndns.org wrote: On Sat, 2012-03-03 at 09:09 -0800, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: H h...@hm.net.br wrote: ... Forever installing FreeBSD Desktop, either KDE or Gnome, was a nightmare process, or better, to make it appear on screen was a nightmare. I have never understood the point of KDE or Gnome, other than (perhaps) as eye candy for the uninitiated. If I wanted a Windows desktop, I would install Windows. If I wanted a Mac desktop, I would use a Mac. I've been getting paid to develop software since 1975 -- Same here (approximately). Maybe you long for a return to punch cards and fanfold greenbar paper, but I'm not going back there. I think we've both been around long enough to know that even an ADM-3 or a 3270 is a step up from punch cards and fanfold greenbar paper. The second step up is screen(1), and AFAIK no one is advocating a return even to that level of functionality, much less to anything more primitive. The next improvement is huge, and costly: high-resolution display hardware, and the software (X11, xterm, basic window manager) to handle it. That provides the capability to use multiple windows -- to see several ptys at the same time instead of being able to see only one and having to remember what's on the rest. I think most of us would agree that, costly as this upgrade is, it is justified for most desktop systems. Once we have the high-resolution display capability, it becomes possible to add graphics-based productivity apps like a PDF viewer, web browser, word processor, calendar, drawing programs, etc. I _know_ it is possible to run all that with nothing more than X11 and the same basic window manager, because I do it on a daily basis. The question remains: what more does KDE or Gnome bloatware provide, other than eye candy? It's exactly because I don't want a Windows or Mac desktop that I use gnome. Last I saw, Gnome was a way to make an otherwise perfectly good X-windows desktop look like MacOS X. Again, what's the point? What does Gnome give you, that twm or fvwm2 would not? ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: ports usable or not [was: flowtable usable or not]
On Sat, Mar 03, 2012 at 09:08:28PM +0100, Nomen Nescio wrote: Thanks mcl. I am off on other things for now but I will file PRs next time I come across something. In the past I have emailed the port maintainer and the answer is usually yeah I know. After a few of those I thought filing PRs is a waste of time considering the maintainer doesn't seem to care. Once PRs are filed, we are able to track them and if the maintainer does not work on them after a period of time, it's fair game for other people to work on them as well. mcl ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Intel(R) PRO/1000 PT Dual Port Server Adapter not working properly
Hello, This was originally posted here: http://forums.freebsd.org/showthread.php?p=168854posted=1#post168854 I'm building a new PF firewall box based on FreeBSD 9 Release. Motherboard is Foxconn H61S Mini-ITX with Intel PRO/1000 PT dual port server adapter. The adapter is recognized as em0 and em1 but em0 just won't work (i.e no light on the port when connected to the switch) and em1 works only in 100baseTX full-duplex mode (no carrier if I force it to 1000baseT). I tried to change switch port, UTP cable from Cat5e to Cat6 but still no luck. The onboard Realtek works fine. Switch is Netgear GS608. Could it be a bad Intel card? I also tried to compile the latest driver from Intel but it gives error during compilation: http://downloadcenter.intel.com/conf...Dwnldid=17509http://downloadcenter.intel.com/confirm.aspx?httpDown=http://downloadmirror.intel.com/17509/eng/em-7.2.4.tar.gzlang=engDwnldid=17509 Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks! ps: command captures are provided at the url above. ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-stable-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
