Re: (no subject)
On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 11:22:24PM -0500, Mark Linimon wrote: On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 09:32:52AM +1000, jonathan michaels wrote: thank you gentle peoples for working out this solution. Unfortunately it has not been 'worked out' with the decision-makers. It has been suggested. Doing s/suggested/agreed to/ is not an automatic process. i am not really good with this whole english/words usage thing, i am sorry that i have caused this grieft, it was not my intention but that seems to be somewhat mute as i managed to fall foul again .. perhaps one day sorry for taking my ... whats teh point.. again, sincere apologies to all concerened, for teh inconvience that i have caused. much kind regards and appreciations jonathan -- powered by .. QNX, OS9 and freeBSD -- http://caamora com au/operating system === appropriate solution in an inappropriate world === ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: proposed change to support policy for FreeBSD Releases
freebsd-stable et al ... On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 01:37:03PM -0700, Jo Rhett wrote: Some quite lively offline discussion has come to conclusion with the following suggestions to change the support policy. Obviously, this is what we feel would be a good idea, but it's obviously open to discussion and there's nobody demanding anything here. It just seems better. Old text: Each branch is supported by the Security Officer for a limited time o/ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ O\ whole heap of content sniped for brevity. a minimum of 24 months after the release. Proposed (starting point for discussion for) new text: Each branch is supported by the Security Officer for a limited time only, and is designated as one of `Early adopter', `Normal', or 'Final'. The designation is used as a guideline for determining the lifetime of the branch as follows. Early adopter Releases which are published from the -CURRENT branch will be for support of my hardware and any 'new' machines that might wander by .. i like these two definitions, the clarity of teh time line i mean, Early Adopter / Normal Normal Releases which are published from a -STABLE branch will be but, in particular i like this (Final) as a place to find some certainty and a place to plan the next step as regards freebsd upgrade path and future hardware acquisitions .. a safe place to plan and look froward from ... Final The final minor release on a given branch will be supported by the Security Officer for a minimum of 24 months after the release. o/ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ ___ O\ whole heap of contents sniped for brevity. thank you gentle peoples for working out this solution. it has given me some much needed clarity as regards forward moving planning. as well as looking to very clearly simplify the desicion making process as regards, not just, 'which freebsd to use' but when to move and what release to move to. as well as helping with the going forward hardware acquisions processes. not all gifts make good freebsd platforms. it helps to know with some kind of certainty wht hardware is being supported/worked on and still in pre-development stage so to speak. at any rate a good place to start with as regards this whole 'support' business .. makes sence to me .. thanks, gang. keep up teh good work .. very much appreciated most kind regards / appreciations. jonathan -- powered by .. QNX, OS9 and freeBSD -- http://caamora com au/operating system === appropriate solution in an inappropriate world === ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: boot failed after make installkernel from 6.3-RELEASE to 7.0-RELEASE
On Fri, Sep 05, 2008 at 11:54:21AM +0800, Chih Liang wrote: Miroslav Lachman wrote: What is your hardware setup? (post dmesg) I have bad experience with some old PC with nForce 2 chipset. This machine is unbootable with 7.x kernel, so I am using it with 6.3. (it can't boot even from 7.x CD) Miroslav Lachman I've tried to boot with 7.0 CD, it hung again...then I reboot with ACPI disabled, it could be boot but said can't find the disk. So I think this PC maybe with too old chipset. Anyway, thanks a lot. i have an amd athlon with an nvidia video card that freebsd v7.0-RELEASE locks the last thing mine says is hptrr (there is something about rocketraid raid device in teh dmesg) no device found' if i disable acpi (by booting in safe mode) all works well the installation completes, the machine works well at least so far ... hope this helps regards jonathan -- powered by .. QNX, OS9 and freeBSD -- http://caamora com au/operating system === appropriate solution in an inappropriate world === ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: named.conf: query-source address
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 10:11:03PM -0700, Doug Barton wrote: Jeremy Chadwick wrote: The config parms we use are necessary. That's all you had to say. :) I see a lot of people attempt to over-engineer stuff with named that leads to complications later. If you are doing things for a good reason, keep doing them. Doug, et al, i for one appreciate this over-engieered responce because it has given me (and those like me) a chance to get answers to questions that we have asked for over a year in my case, about this whole bind setup issue. as an asideo, it would be better for people coming in cold could find a better source of who to setup support services such as bind and all teh others for a woring freebsd based network .. i don't mean teh existant 'engineering speak that assumes we all know everything .. this is clearly not teh case to a whole lot of people coming to freebsd. kind regards jonathan -- powered by .. QNX, OS9 and freeBSD -- http://caamora com au/operating system === appropriate solution in an inappropriate world === ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: /usr/share/man/man8/MAKEDEV.8
On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 02:30:45PM -0500, Matthew D. Fuller wrote: On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 08:08:31PM +0100 I heard the voice of Bernd Walter, and lo! it spake thus: I don't completly agree. Many people forget that FreeBSD is used on slow embedded systems as well and I prefer having manpoages there as well. given microsofts new operating system release of late and the even greater dependance on far more expensive computers, is leaving the computer world 'underclass' with even less choice so to speak. i deal with a group of disabled people (i too have significant disabilities) that are finding ther increasing reliance on computers to deal with the needs of everyday lives .. beacue it is assumed that 'everybody' has access to teh internet and more and more govt beurocracys are putting ther infromation up on teh internet and not making any consessions for people who haven't that kind of accessability, either because of cost of isp, cost of raw computing power, toc of teh computing 'experience' and so on. Oh, I don't argue that there are cases where catpages are still useful. But I think they're the exception, not the rule. When you're setting up a tiny system (by whatever the standards of the given day are) or an appliance, you expect the tradeoffs to be rather different no, i disagree, i expect my operating system to be usable and to be consistant in its ability to interoperate with my abilaty to use it with teh resources at my disposal .. human/financial/accessibility than on a normal (by said standards) general-purpose computer. and what is normal ?? while i was fortunate enough to be able to aquire a reasonable workhorse not all people in my situation are so fortunate. sorry for my noise, i am not complaining rather asking for a bit of thinkings and for some tolerance fro people who still use old machines .. as teh world moves into a situation normal information/govt services is only delivered by automatied computer delivery systems greater sections of teh community ar going to be isolated form this new world because tehy cannot get teh tools to access what is ever increasingly concider teh normal way of doing things Heck, looking at Soekris, everything above the 4501 class is probably faster than my laptop8-} perhaps, many people, not those only on the fringe of society do not have computer systems that even make it to that meager standard to paraphrase a .sig i have seen often in these parts, standards are wonderfull things, there are so many to choose from !! regards appreciations and thanks for all your efforts in making a freebsd that i can still use and actually find enjoyable. cheers jonathan -- powered by .. QNX, OS9 and freeBSD -- http://caamora com au/operating system === appropriate solution in an inappropriate world === ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: default dns config change causing major poolpah
On Thu, Aug 02, 2007 at 06:26:46AM +0200, Thijs Eilander wrote: If there is a consensus based on solid technical reasons (not emotion or FUD) to back the root zone slaving change out, I'll be glad to do so. I think it would be very useful at this point if those who _like_ the change would speak up publicly as well. For starters, I am doing it since 1998 (and not only in named) on busy dns servers. I like the idea but not the change. Motivation: 1) Not everyone is an admin on a busy nameservers. Is it really necessary to include it in the distribution? A lot of people don't even get it, they just setup their homemade firewall/dnsserver. Do those people need to slave the rootservers by default? Why? 2) Skilled administrators are aware of the slave trick, or they fetch root.zone.gz once a week. Why include it for the skilled at expense of the clueless people from argument 1 ? i am not a 'skilled administrator' i'd probably not quite make it to clueless user status, as yet, but i am working on it .. some ten years and prior to that and my accident some 15 yeasr on qnx and os9: level I and level II (note i am disbled man, born with damaged brain --- memory disabilities and learning skills defeciets as well as motor skills deficiencies .. please excuse my typing) Why not fetching the root.zone.gz file itself once a week? Matthew Dillon send a nice getroot script to this discussion, I think we should put an adjusted script in /etc/periodic/weekly. this seems to be a cleaner way than using axfr on rootservers which don't notify us on changes. (Benefit: the root.zone.gz is signed, axfr probably not). i am not claiming to understad the issues involved, i've asked off list and am waiting for replies .. hopefully they will come. but given from what i have read and understand of teh tasks involved and teh load issues and so forth i think that this would be a really good idea. most new users havent got a hope of understanding what is going on .. i have just upgraded my whole netowrk from 25 year old 386dx33 machines to 10 year old cpmpaq proliant 5500 (2 off with 4 cpu 4 gb dram and nice scsi raid onboard and a proliant 1850r with 2 cpu and 2 gb dram i think) but more importantly the software went from freebsd v2.2.5-R to v6.2-R and i have found that it might have been easier to dump freebsd and got with netbsd/openbsd something like that. there are a lot of difference and its a steep learning curve for a new user or an old user with some significant learning defeciets like me. my network is connect to teh backbone via perment dialup modem and the new named is having issues/squables with ppp/pppd i've been a devout pppd user some 10 years, i think that pppd is just the way that it should be done, a personal opoinion nothing more onthing less. i get hourly reminder in /var/log/messages about permissions/interface dropped named ignoring the port. locally dns seems to be working on teh bind 9.?.? (3 something) but i don't know if its being seen outside if any of my secondaries are getting thier data streams. at forst it seems to be a firewall issue, so after giving up trying to make teh jump from v2.2.5 edition ipfw to teh current one with v6.2 i gave up and asked a friend for help with setting up pf, as far as i can tell pf is doing its job and i've dismantled all teh ipfw stuff on teh 6 or so servers handling teh getway (fidonet to/from usenet) and now the gatewy machine is runnign pf and the sshd attack/probes have stoped (i seems) but my named is still complaining hourly about thes ports/permissions errors that it was complaing about with pppd and ipfw i have scoured teh handbook, the faq even teh fabled google and there is precious little, whatever there is relates to some obscure linux dns running in a jailed environment .. i tried de jailing, sorry that is not the corect term but the best that i can do without making a major effort to dig it out of teh relevent dooc sets. it is things like this that make arbitrary desisions/changes to untime/production environments a real pain .. i suppose if i were a real administrator i'd have teh skills to diagnose this problem but the reality is that i am a special trying to overcome th bigotry and out right discrimination that ihave come to sxpect as my lot in life, thankfully it is not so bad here in freebsd land .. but it rears its had to remind me that i'm not in heave, just quite yet, big grin, ok. Personally I think this serves the same goal and hopefully in a less annoying way, without having to worry (or argue!) about axfr is still allowed for at least next 2 years. this sounds really good to me, hopefully some level of sanity might prevail Just another 2 cents for in your moneybag, what will you do with all those 'funding' ? :) and another 2 australian cents from me, thijs .. thanks for writing you good article as always please excuse teh poor writing/typing and grammer kind regards jonathan --
Re: tproxy on freebsd
On Wed, Apr 18, 2007 at 02:25:32PM +0200, Volker wrote: On 04/18/07 14:14, Adrian Chadd wrote: On 18/04/07, Volker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: but with that configuration, still the proxy ip address that visible when my client using the proxy. Don't understand that sentence. What address is visible to whom? And which address do you want to 'hide'? If you don't want to leak your internal addresses to any outside webserver, this is a squid issue and there should (?) be configuration options for squid. He means fully transparent - ie, client thinks its talking to the server; server thinks its talking to the client; proxy server IP isn't visible to either. Adrian Adrian, thanks, I got it. Talking about real transparent proxy not just a transparent one... ;) not sure i understand this one, a real transparent not just a tra.. Unfortunately I don't have a solution for that as I'm using mostly NATed environments and it doesn't make sense to hand out private address space to a web server. i was assigned a class c some 15 years ago and its getting used for all sorts of admin stuff/disabled user client stuff and other stuff that i cannot sort out 'netting/natting for' most kind regards and appreciations jonathan thanks all ... adrian volker and zen if i forgot somebody sorry. -- powered by .. QNX, OS9 and freeBSD -- http://caamora com au/operating system === appropriate solution in an inappropriate world === ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: tproxy on freebsd
alexander, list, sorry for posting to list, i tried to post to advertised mail address and my post bounced as user unknown. so i try here. On Tue, Apr 17, 2007 at 09:29:21PM +0400, Alexander Kuprijanov wrote: ÷ ÓÏÏÂÝÅÎÉÉ ÏÔ Tuesday 17 April 2007 11:17:05 zen ÎÁÐÉÓÁÌ(Á): I use transparent proxy on my home wi-fi network, and on work (ethernet lan) with pf+proxy on FreeBSD gateways without any problems... earlier I used ipfilter+proxy (for transparent proxing) also without problems. I can share my config (pf+proxy) if you need i don't have a problem with this but i am going to be setting up a similar setup and would appreciate the help a working setup would provide. sorry for my poor english and typing .. i am disabled. kind regards jonathan -- powered by .. QNX, OS9 and freeBSD -- http://caamora com au/operating system === appropriate solution in an inappropriate world === ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: tproxy on freebsd
On Wed, Apr 18, 2007 at 08:35:16AM +0700, zen wrote: jonathan michaels wrote: alexander, list, sorry for posting to list, i tried to post to advertised mail address and my post bounced as user unknown. so i try here. On Tue, Apr 17, 2007 at 09:29:21PM +0400, Alexander Kuprijanov wrote: ÷ ÓÏÏÂÝÅÎÉÉ ÏÔ Tuesday 17 April 2007 11:17:05 zen ÎÁÐÉÓÁÌ(Á): I use transparent proxy on my home wi-fi network, and on work (ethernet lan) with pf+proxy on FreeBSD gateways without any problems... earlier I used ipfilter+proxy (for transparent proxing) also without problems. I can share my config (pf+proxy) if you need i don't have a problem with this but i am going to be setting up a similar setup and would appreciate the help a working setup would provide. sorry for my poor english and typing .. i am disabled. kind regards jonathan any help will be appreciated, i could use a sample configuration file regarding this problem. FYI i already running transparent proxy with ipf+ipnat,: rdr nve0 0.0.0.0/0 port 80 - 122.x.x.x port 3128 tcp but with that configuration, still the proxy ip address that visible when my client using the proxy. is it me or just i cant achieve that with FreeBSD? because i hate to switch to other OS only because of this. anyway this what i found in the net, but only work on linux http://www.sanog.org/resources/sanog4-devdas-transproxy.pdf sorry my internet (web browser machine/webbrowser is offline) access is broken at moment .. i use lynx on a 486dx50, its 20 years old. will this work on centos v4 and/or debian v3.4 ??? i am setting up a compaq proliant 5500r as the network backbone, multi boot (freebsd v6, debian v3.4 and ms window 2003 server/professional). this is my fall back stratagy. much thanks and most kind regards jonathan -- powered by .. QNX, OS9 and freeBSD -- http://caamora com au/operating system === appropriate solution in an inappropriate world === ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: gmirror disks vs partitions
On Wed, Jan 17, 2007 at 02:29:33PM +0300, Andrew Pantyukhin wrote: On 1/17/07, Josef Karthauser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A poll for opinions if I may? i suppose i'm asking the smae here as well ... I've got a few gmirrors running on various machines, all of which pair up two drives at the physical level (i.e. mirror /dev/ad0s1 with /dev/ad1s1). Of course there are other ways of doing it to, like mirroring at the partition level, ie pairing /dev/ad0s1a with /dev/ad1s1a, /dev/ad0s1e with /dev/ad0s1e, etc. Apart from potentially avoiding a whole disk from being copied during a resync after a crash, are there any other advantages to using partition level mirroring instead of drive level mirroring? I can imagine people using partition-level raid to implement a popular configuration: You divide a couple of identical drives proportionally in two partitions each, place a couple of the first partitions into gmirror and a couple of the second ones into gstripe. This way you get both reliable and fast storage with just two drives. Some strings are attached. my situation is somewhat different, in theat i am providing internet services for a (private) group to access tcp/ip based communications (we are all disabled and couldn't fine reasonable priced and competently serviced ISP services in our part of teh world, so we decided to do it for our selves) .. sorry thet is teh history and reason behind my participation in/with freebsd (over teh last 10 or so years). we have just recieved several older machines, PIII compaq proliant 5500 with hardware raid works quite nicely wonce it settled down and its batteries regained working voltage so to speak, it is running freebsd 6.10release, ms windows professional 2003 server, and linux debian (sarge v3.1) it is a multi-boot fixit box as well as bing teh basic fileserver/nfs host and kernel builder, with its 4 cpu architecture it works well. also came several 233 mhz 2 ide/2 rom drives (cd and dvd) and an 800 mhz PIII similarly equiped. all are intel hardware of some 8-10 years vintage, this is now the basic netowrk backbone, and upgrading from several intel 386dx33 and intel 486dx33/50 machines that have served this netowrk for over 20 years now. now that andrew has 'opened' my eyes so to speak to teh world of software raid and after some extensive reading i discovered RAIDFrame which looked to provide all tehat i am looking for, yes i played with vinum and got burned so badly i was only going to use hardware raid and the basis of my comments to andrew. i too have seen teh raid in freebsd has moved on, so i guess its time for me to move on as well, looks like software raid might just fit the bills that these multiple drive machines are begging .. all have several largis (for me) ide style harddisks, mainly 6-8 gb and i have relic 4 gb scsi harddisks that (as i read in RAIDFrame for freebsd) i'm hoping that i could build some sort of basic media platform for each of teh machines instead of constantly worrying about how to cut up teh operating system software load over teh available spindle count .. its not fun anymore working out where teh system was loading up teh spindles and draging down teh system as a whole .. i'm sure many of teh readers here have expericenced this before from time to time, atleast. i've seen lots of posts about RAIDFrame for freebsd upto about 2002 and perhaos 2003 .. is teh port stabalised and not in need of anymore work, or has it been canned and or droped ??? from what i have read the raidframe package would be an ideal solution, i like very much mr long's introduction on teh freebsd (people) page. this discussion on teh whole had been most enlightening and i hape it will bear much fruit for the geom project in teh long term .. i've been gollowing teh gstripe (here in -stable) i need to keep reminding myself that teh software is not bad, it is being developed and thats why all teh bad/bug/things going wrong are being reported here in -stable, that what -stable is for/all about. sorry for my post, i'm not very good at comunicationing, its one of teh parts of mybrain that don't work too good, and that is why i'm (struggling) on teh invalid pension. umm i'd also like to take this opportunity to say thank you for al the support freebsd has given me over teh years, it has been a most wonderfull experience, the stability and reliability has been a shining light that i take with me whereever i go, int eh softeware world, and in general as its produced because people band togehter and care about what they do and that is what makes freebsd what it is .. not superieor code and all tehse other things, which i'm sure help, ok just a linny little bit (grin). much appreciations, thanks and gratittude. most kind regards jonathan and caamora dot com dot au -- powered by .. QNX, OS9 and freeBSD -- http://caamora com au/operating system ===
Re: system breach
gareth On Fri, Dec 29, 2006 at 10:54:36PM +0200, gareth wrote: On Fri 2006-12-29 (10:16), Jeremy Chadwick wrote: with regards to you last post to me (personal) i had installed freebsd v6.1-release and setup xwindows (both kde gnome) desktop environments, then left teh machine sit and settle. the machine is a compaq proliant 5500 with 2 PIII Xeon 550/100 L2 Cache off 1 mb . it has a 45 gb raid5 array (35 gb data/10 gb raid indexing etc) this is built ontop of a SMART-2/P array controller with a pair od symbiosis scsi3 host adapters. the machine is sitting idle on a shelf while i get several dozen dlt-IV tapes that i've ordered for the DLT-7000 scsi tape streamer so that i can save teh image/filesystems to tape then scour the disks clean and start again. its got a dorectory in teh root fs and several othe files pepered all over teh array and many endries in teh systems logs all started on or about 22 november about 11 pm i think .. sorry the machine is running something else at teh moment and its a bit too hard to get the relevent details but if itis of any valu e to you or anyone-else i'd be happy to run up freebsd v6.1-release and get teh details for you. the compromise seems to be a sshd couple to a X11 subsystem sned out pornography type of attack. as i told you earlier i've contacted aus-cert and give tehm teh open port numbers which they confirmed as a current local compromise thats been peretrated by several fellows in china (mainland) hongkong and from indonesia as well, it is apparent reasonably well know gang that is doing this, could be targeting anyone with freebsd v6.1-release or more likely the version of kde/gnome that installed with freebsd v6.1-release. one thing to note that is freebsd warns after installation (that is after teh first night time maintenance run) the security mail list 18 or so packages as being know to be compromiseable and or weak in that respect. i didn't think much of it as i wasn't going to be using teh machine, just let it run up as it was new (to me) its recycled from another life and is some 10 years old (pretty new in my meuseum, big grin) if anyone else is interested in details i'd be happy to furnish details off list most kind regards jonathan also, best wishes for the coming new year and hope that you christmas was happy holy safe and incident free. -- powered by .. QNX, OS9 and freeBSD -- http://caamora com au/operating system === appropriate solution in an inappropriate world === ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Installing 6.2-BETA3 from floppies
On Tue, Nov 14, 2006 at 01:19:28PM +0100, Oliver Fromme wrote: Eugene Grosbein wrote: Eugene Grosbein wrote: I'm trying to install FreeBSD 6.x onto old Packard Bell machine, it is Pentium-166 with 80Mb RAM and 10Gb HDD (Orlando motherboard). [...] However, timer does not 'tick' and there is always 10 seconds left. I choose verbose mode, it starts to show its diagnostic output but last line it shows is 'Calibrating clocks...' then it halts: keyboard leds do not switch, there is no reaction on 'Ctrl-Alt-ESC'. Hmm, I was too quick... The kernel has spent lots of minutes 'sitting in this pose' but suddenly said that clock calibration has failed and it will use default frequency. Apparently the RTC on that mainboard is dead. Did you try replacing its battery? It's usually a small lithium button cell, or (on very old boards) a small battery package. If that doesn't help, I guess the RTC chip itself is broken. on sone pentium pro motherboards manucactured in america, as opposed to those manufactured by american companies located in tiawan .. the 6 or so motherboards that i have seen worked with (clients machines/networks) they all had the cmose/realtime clocks batteries integrated into teh rtc clock chip it is some sort of mercury battery, motherboards with that style of rtc clock battery and or cmos battery have only one way to fix teh flat battery, that is to replace teh motherboard with one that has a normal battery for the rtc/cmos circuits. sorry for the typing, i'm tyyping blind (just about) at teh monebt. most kind regards jonathan -- powered by .. QNX, OS9 and freeBSD -- http://caamora com au/operating system === appropriate solution in an inappropriate world === ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: The need for initialising disks before use?
On Fri, Aug 18, 2006 at 09:52:02PM -0500, Brooks Davis wrote: On Fri, Aug 18, 2006 at 01:41:27PM -1000, Antony Mawer wrote: On 18/08/2006 4:29 AM, Brooks Davis wrote: On Fri, Aug 18, 2006 at 09:19:04AM -0500, Kirk Strauser wrote: On Thursday 17 August 2006 8:35 am, Antony Mawer wrote: A quick question - is it recommended to initialise disks before using them to allow the disks to map out any bad spots early on? Note: if you once you actually start seeing bad sectors, the drive is almost dead. A drive can remap a pretty large number internally, but once that pool is exhausted (and the number of errors is still growing exponentially), there's not a lot of life left. There are some exceptions to this. The drive can not remap a sector which failes to read. You must perform a write to cause the remap to occur. If you get a hard write failure it's gameover, but read failures aren't necessicary a sign the disk is hopeless. For example, the drive I've had in my laptop for most of the last year developed a three sector[0] error within a week or so of arrival. After dd'ing zeros over the problem sectors the problem sectors I've had no problems. This is what prompted it -- I've been seeing lots of drives that are showing up with huge numbers of read errors - for instance: Aug 19 04:02:27 server kernel: ad0: FAILURE - READ_DMA status=51READY,DSC,ERROR error=40UNCORRECTABLE LBA=66293984 Aug 19 04:02:27 server kernel: g_vfs_done():ad0s1f[READ(offset=30796791808, length=16384)]error = 5 Aug 19 04:02:31 server kernel: ad0: FAILURE - READ_DMA status=51READY,DSC,ERROR error=40UNCORRECTABLE LBA=47702304 i have recently managed to borrow an acer pentium III 550 mhz based machine to test and use as an installation server for freebsd v6.1-release. after running a minimum (basic) installation on teh machine, which has a pair of drives (an 850 mb maxtor atapi/ide and a 1 gb fujitus atapi/ide drive that has a block of some 400-550 megabite that the bios/ms windows 2000 was not able to accessand i built my freebsd partitions/slices around .. this is why i was originally interested in this thread, so that i might get a way of refresh this disks media and possibly revover teh who media surface or find out what is going on. originally the error messages concerned only the oddly partitioned/sliced fujitsu but afte a few days it spread and as best as i can recall the machine will loose console access (and network login access as well but this could be some intermitent aspect) via sshd as soon as either of the disks are written too, in my case it seems to be access to teh swap slice as this machine has a small memory footprint, 32 megabyte untill i can canabalise another or replace the machine. i cannot use freebsd 6.1-release on any of my machines as they all have scsi drives and host with bootable cdroms but with bioses that use the old (high seirra) bootable cdrom format, software and this machine while not recent is still some 5 to 10 years newer than my own most recent hardware. stuff trimmed for brevity I have /var/log/messages flooded with incidents of these FAILURE - READ_DMA messages. I've seen it on more than one machine with relatively young drives. I'm trying to determining of running a dd if=/dev/zero over the whole drive prior to use will help reduce the incidence of this, or if it is likely that these are developing after the initial install, in which case this will make negligible difference... I really don't know. The only way I can think of to find out is to own a large number of machine and perform an experiment. We (the general computing public) don't have the kind of models needed to really say anything definitive. Drive are too darn opaque. Once I do start seeing these, is there an easy way to: a) determine what file/directory entry might be affected? Not easily, but this question has been asked and answered on the mailing lists recently (I don't remember the answer, but I think there were some ports that can help). might i add that while the original question (the refreshing of the operating diskes media) has (may have) been answered, sorry i didn't follow this thread as asidiously as i should have, because the thread was only of partial interst to me, but since this post has caught my interest because my installation of freebsd on stable hardware has started to produce similare error messages i now think that the original question has morphed (as these things usually do, somewhat sadly) into something dare i say it, quiet different. i've sent Mr Mawer a post off list giving some details and depending on teh answers it might be worth while posting a bug report of sorts ??? most kind regards jonathan -- powered by .. QNX, OS9 and freeBSD -- http://caamora com au/operating system === appropriate solution in an
Re: Fresh install on gmirror'ed disks?
craig and the rest of the gang ... On Fri, Mar 03, 2006 at 03:54:33PM -0600, Craig Boston wrote: On Fri, Mar 03, 2006 at 03:36:17PM -0500, Mike Jakubik wrote: with some chunks removed for brevity ... It takes much more work, time, and complexity to 1) boot cd and install os 2) reboot to os and follow a complex procedure to setup geom based raid than it does to 1) boot cd, make gmirror with installer, install os. Well, honestly, someone who is knowledgeable enough to set up a complex _bootable_ geom based raid on an existing install would probably find it easier to do what I usually do: 1) Boot install CD and go to fixit mode 2) Set up RAID the way I want 3) Do a manual install by extracting the packages onto the new filesystem this procedure makes sence to me .. perhaps you would be so kind as to forward it to teh doc's people to have it included in a) the relevent RAID sections and b) the places that talk about initial installation and rebuiling a system with the explicit inten of adding/converting it it a network storage facility come RAID network media/hdd procidor facility. i've never had need for RAID i prefer to rely on my QIC storage its guarenteed for 20 (twenty) years storage/shelf life thats good enough for me. i think that RAID would be a good thing to add to a -STABLE system as most beginners (sorta like me thionugh i've been in teh freebsd camp of a bit over ten years now. i have a small network here that services several remote dialups we are building a text bibliogarphy/latex based document[ation-ing] system .. back to unixen grass roots ... grin. That avoids the intermediate install and the hassle of migrating partitions around. yup that sounds really good to me and when properly documented it would be a good feature to have at least to be able to say go to page blabla of the doc's set/handbook/or probably the FAQ set. That said, I think it might be a good idea to have a few simple RAID configurations in the installer -- say a full-disk mirror or something relatively fool-resistant. I'm sure patches would be welcome if anyone wants to step up :) craig, RAID no matter how simple is a step of complexity that is not warrented for the Installer as most people new to freebsd are new to unix and these days new to computing in general or have just enough ms windows under their belts/skirts to be a bloody nuisance to themselves and to every body else untill they get to a point where they are familiar with the language, understand reasonably well how things fit together and can handle html/a browser with some degree of competance, i make this observation based upon my own experience and that of several peoples who have come to freebsd from linux a few from vaxen days and a fair contingent with a resionable gradiet from got my computer yesterday to got this miserable hard-disk replaced for teh 4th time and it still keeps on filling up over night, why do thes dhard disks keep filling up so quickly ??? with kind regards jonathan -- powered by .. QNX, OS9 and freeBSD -- http://caamora com au/operating system === appropriate solution in an inappropriate world === ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Boot manager beep
On Fri, Dec 09, 2005 at 05:38:43PM +0100, Thomas E. Zander wrote: On Fri, 09. Dec 2005, at 16:00 +, David Malone wrote according to [Re: Boot manager beep]: On Fri, Dec 09, 2005 at 08:43:14AM -0700, Scott Long wrote: It is highly irritating for everyone else, though. Not quite everyone - if I'm working on a few machines I find it useful to know when a particular machine has reached the boot stage, so I can tell it to go into single user mode. It is particularly useful on machines where the BIOS tages ages to do its stuff. Probably it isn't even a real problem on most boxes. Usually standard desktops and servers (maybe) have their pc speaker which is set to a reasonable volume at boot time. I never found this beep annoying in my servers. Just came across it when I had to reinstall my notebook because of a hard drive crash and 6.0 installed this beeping boot loader. So probably as Scott pointed out, it might be best to let the user choose a quiet loader as an option. Naturally, boot0 is a tiny program, it shouldn't be a problem to build a boot0nobeep as well and install one of them depending on settings, maybe even early during sysinstall ?! yes, that sounds reasonable to me .. i'm one of those sightless ones who caused the irritation for mr long. may i suggest that the default situation be set to beep: ON and if teh enduser requires or need the beep: OFF version then they are left to make the adjustments as thier own exercise. i like the idea about setting a bit in the /dev/conf file, ummm something like that my memory isnt that good this morning. it is most difficult trying to work out how and where to make changes when being able to see teh scree becomes a personal issue .. every bit helps. sorry for the intrusion . this be one of those items that needs some vocalisation from those it genuinely affects and for whom it is not a meer cosmetic annoyance. regards and apologies jonathan -- powered by .. QNX, OS9 and freeBSD -- http://caamora com au/operating system === appropriate solution in an inappropriate world === ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Website accessability issues (was Re: new FreeBSD-webpage)
On Sat, Oct 08, 2005 at 11:13:33AM -0700, Murray Stokely wrote: On Sat, Oct 08, 2005 at 11:48:59AM +0200, Brad Knowles wrote: I think maybe we need a few more ADA lawsuits filed against companies (and other organizations) for the crimes they are committing with their websites. Indeed. We have committers with all sorts of disabilities (including blindness) and so keeping the site fully accessible serves our own internal needs as well as those of our users. if that is the case then why is teh freebsd website as it is now so disabled hostile ? i've asked several people that i know who have different parts of thier bodies and brains damaged to mine and every one of them to a man (and two women) all, and independantly, berate teh bew version as being various degrees of uslessness from hostile to bearly usable. seveeral of these garbage (me included in this identifier) can warriors (we are all anti pc speak and do so at every opportunity so i am speaking/describing us with there permission .. for teh simple minded pc types) use old ibm pc's (real ibm pc intel 386sx cpu with 8/16 mb dram) have tried to use the site with text to speach software ranging from lynx on pc dos v6.0 and v7.0 and a novell dos v6 from memory. also several gui products using (integrated gui) operating systems ms windows nt v3.51 and v4.0, beos, GEM (very disabled person friendly, pity thier is no support anymore) several gnu/linux (debian) iterations and of cource various bsds ... we are an informal group that tries to find a usable solution that we can all share and build a good stagle reliable package that will enable us to have a 'blind fredie' type operating system that requires no thinking as we confrence call to discuss project issues and not have to worry/consentrate on our fingers falling over operating system 'troubles'. this actually is a position that all users of an operating system package should be able to get into fairly quickly and relatively easily. again if us disabled guinea pigs crash test dummies can achieve this then the so called not disabled intelligent endusers should be able to make a cake walk of off it well this is the conclusion we (us peer reviewers) have reached over some 20 or more years of on and off research. The new site continues the move away from HTML 3.2 era visual tags that we've been working on for several years. It is supposed to be the addition of java, javascript and some odd xml that for the time being lynx just (graciously) steps over, fortunately for me (us text console users, hampered or not). more accessible than the old site. If there are regressions then please post them to [EMAIL PROTECTED] so we can fix them. is this going to be the usual humilliate teh messenger because we cannot speak/type the american english like a native yes, i do have dificulties with english and americam varietal being teh most significant, could be because it changes so quickly and diferentially. as well thier are issues with oclour blindness (different from the usual red/green male eyes variety) dsylexia and damaged neurology. as to why i and those like me do not use the available spelling checkers, simple they are american based algorithms with dictionaries that spell most of teh simple words that we use incoreectly and the superposition of z for s is most silly as far as we are concerntde, it is most difficult to understand and hence to use correctly and makes using teh freebsd (and all american sourced/developed/uiltb) websites awkward to say teh least. ok, this is my honest and open opinion given the things that most significanly impact this disabled man with his journey through the freebsd web site. well the balls in yor court now lets see what happens this time. i am prepared to face being treated the way i was on several ocasions over the years that i have been a freebsd user in an attempt to try to communicate in as damaged a manner as i cam. i don't have much programing skills any more, i don't have any disposable income to buy cd's et al all that i can do is to communicate as best as i can that teh website is hard if not impossible to use for if not disabled people as a whole then at least this (attempting to vocalise the issues most as best as i can inspite of teh in teh past most hostile responce) time inspite of my history of much anxiety, fear but inspite i am prepared to make teh best of it so that other people like me can find the same level and freedom that is afforded when the person finally gets usable tools that grants them the ability to be able to communicate freely and to not have thier damaged body/mind become the limiting factor in ones ability to communicate as a free and equal human being. this might soudn corny but it is teh reason i persist because i am cogniscient enought to know what it feels like to have this skill ability taken away from me by loutish boorish bigots who think its funny to trample on another persns ... ok i hope you
Re: new FreeBSD-webpage
greetings all, my bagage is this .. i am a disabled man who lives with severe chronicly debiliting pain from significantly danaged neurology and associated arthritis. there are several other conributing issues but i don't need to belabour the point more than this. i use freebsd on hardware that i used to ply my trade (systems analyst consultant for several organisations involved in the research and developemt of computer based tools for resource management on broad acre farm systems and othe niche water resourec management systems and teh odd scart management systems. these days i live a leisurely life on a retirement plan otherwise know as the oinvalide pension .. its meager but its doable enough to keep body and soul together for the time being.. sortofa grin. i use lynx browser on an old intel computer, and soon maybe digital unix on a dec alphastation 255 (with a 233 mhx cpu a 1gb scsi hhd and 128 mb dram and a 10 mhz dec ethernet card) this assumes that i cannot get freebsd or netbsd installed on this nice little workstation. i've just tried to spend some time on teh new webpage ... On Fri, Oct 07, 2005 at 03:12:04PM +1000, Greg Black wrote: This belongs on freebsd-www; reply-to set accordingly. On 2005-10-06, Kris Kennaway wrote: On Thu, Oct 06, 2005 at 05:37:40PM -0400, Dan Ponte wrote: On Thu, Oct 06, 2005 at 05:33:26PM -0400, Kris Kennaway [EMAIL PROTECTED] was witnessed plotting the following conspiracy: On Thu, Oct 06, 2005 at 04:43:36PM -0400, Dan Ponte wrote: I second that all the way. Personally, I feel that the FreeBSD project is doing too much in the way of appearing trendy to attract new users, and it's at the expense of its existing userbase. Not to mention that the old site rendered perfectly in elinks, while the new one is a mess (scrolling all over the place). Thanks for sharing your opinion, but you forgot to explain how a new website will make existing FreeBSD users stop using the operating system. What an absurd way to read what he wrote. Clearly he meant that the reduction in usability of the new site is at the expense of the existing userbase which has come to expect certain things from the site. He said nothing about people leaving and you're just trolling with the above statement. I should have worded that differently. By expense I didn't mean that the existing userbase would shrink, but, rather, it would be at a disadvantage to it. Though, I don't think that anyone would have truly seen it as the former. Nobody who wanted to play fair would have seen it like that. If you think the new design truly puts you at some kind of disadvantage, you should formulate constructive ideas for how to fix that. The problems with the new design have been widely canvassed on the freebsd-www list, where the discussion belongs. Unfortunately, that list is inhabited by a bunch of apologists for the new design who seem to be mainly interested in shouting down the people who have raised legitimate concerns; or if that fails, in belittling them. To list the most critical issues: * Many important navigation links (e.g., the Handbook, the Ports) disappeared from the front page. * The user interface design is dreadful (e.g., fixed sizes for things that cause all kinds of breakage when windows are resized or font sizes changed to suit the reader). * Really boring junk has replaced real content on the front page (e.g., lengthy list of new committers under the heading of news). Anyway, rather than protesting that the new thing is wonderful and continually demanding constructive criticism from people who are offering just that, why not listen to the suggestions and see how to improve things? if i understand this i would like to say yes, please it is time that freebsd et al lead teh way to show how easy it is to incorporate daiabled users accability into a large scale generally available webpage accessed by a wide verity of teh target population. For years, I've been sending people to the FreeBSD site to get information and help -- universally, I've had excellent feedback from all kinds of users about the value and ease of use of the site. The claims that the old site was too hard to use that have been advanced as the main reason for the update just don't hold water, as far as I'm concerned. i too have been sending people to teh freebsd web page but unlike perhaps gregs people jonathans crowd have been much like him .. argumentative, demanding obnoxious opininated and somewhat loudmounted in thier own ways .. thats teh two leged standing variety, the two wheeled sitting variety have been just as cantankerious and impossible to deal with, we as disabled people can be from time to time. especially when we find webpages that are claimed to be easy to read and have won the odd award .. we wonder what kinds of awards or blind and or illiterates were on teh committy. i've
Re: FreeBSD MySQL still WAY slower than Linux
matthias, On Fri, Jun 17, 2005 at 11:12:06PM +0200, Matthias Buelow wrote: Wilko Bulte [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: If you give me $5 per Unix system found there I can retire here and now. For financial transaction processing, and the customer's accounts? I hope it's not my bank.. i know i'm not so well thought of around these parts .. but for my $AUD0.02 worth. my last two contracts, believe it or not i was a systems analyst for some 12 years before i was retired out of my last contract to become a permanently disabled man, now on permanent disability welfare. the nature of my disabilites leaves me with impeared communications skills and severe chronic pain, for which i take lareg quantities of very heavy duty analgesics .. whchi also impear teh (already impearde) communications skills. i'm writing to let you know that two of australias largest banks not only run whooping great mainframes but also run mainframe UNIX, no not linux but commercial UNIX and for the 6 plus years i worked in teh backoffice in a development on a cash management tool the only errors i saw the mainfreme and its unix operating system make were directly attributable to human errors .. mainly misskeying on teh transactions scripts or latter when teh OCR readers didn't deccipher the humans handwriting on teh transactons slipps. also but in teh lmosta rare as hens teeth was a poorly MICR encoded transaction script that gage ambigious results on multiple passes through the decoder that lead to poor quality data. umm yes computers make mistakes, and mainframes make bigger mistakes, and unix makes really big mistakes but its usually the case that its been told precisely to do that, whchis wrong by its human handler. please note: i'm not putting teh tellers and data operatiors on teh freing line. its teh banks management that loking to squeeze every last drop of profit from n aging, ols and creaking system thats making all these so called computer errors .. its so easy to accuse somebody or thing when its not able (or given a chance) to defend itself. sory i;m starting to mount my soap box here .. tak care matthias mainframes are only very big unix boxen in desguise. best wish and most warm regards jonathan -- powered by .. QNX, OS9 and freeBSD -- http://caamora com au/operating system === appropriate solution in an inappropriate world === ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: filesystems not properly unmounted [OT]
On Mon, Jun 06, 2005 at 10:25:51AM -0300, Maxi Combina wrote: snipped for brevity combined with a stable system. I have no trouble with a diffucult / unix-like OS, but a lot of people do. And this a _fact_.They dont have time to spend learning to use a dificult OS. And I think that if we want to tell more and more people (friends, family, goverment, companies, etc) to move to an open source OS, we must do an effort. I word of mouth advertising is teh best most reliable form of advertising going ... good working examples performing well and in a stable manner is the best way of showing pwople that an operating system is worth concidering. especially if it is a college is using it (comfortably and assuredly) to do the job at hand. think that there are a lot of linux distros out there that are really easy to use, and even more friendly or beatiful than windows. I dont think that FreeBSD has achieved this. I dont think there is need. FreeBSD is more suitable for a server station, but not for the desktop. I use linux both as server and desktop with excelent results. servers can be managed by purpose built gui shells but they would needs be a very complicated and very very deep multi-leveled, many menued beast tehat would be an almost nightmare to navigate, eve if it were designed properly !!! user interfaces can be very well served by a text console or text shell .. basically it depends on what you grew up with and it is this dichotomy that is driving the current schism twix gui/non-gui users. each side has valid arguemnts .. but the truth lies in between teh two 'extremes', or so it has been shown to me over these few decades that i've watched this system develop, and so on. I am using FreeBSD since a few weeks ago, also with excelents resutls. But I see it is not desktop oriented (I repeat, this seems ok for me. FreeBSD is better for a server station, not for a desktop). i've been using computers to solve problems and provide solutions since os9 was a twinkle in its parents eyes (microware) and qnx was going ultra reliable realtime unix(alike) operating systems and teh text console was king .. then came novel os/2 and ms windows v3.11 each one was really hard to adjust too and dificult to change from untill i came to qwindows this was based upon an x11 distribution (forgot which one) but it was quick clean comfortable to use and gave me direct access to teh cli (command line interface) if it was needed and it was an easy and simple switch. all of teh current crop of gui's are not ! what i'm trying to say is tha these days in an effort to become easy to use the gui interface which sits on top off and between teh user and the operating system propper has become a very complicated and indeed very bloated and in some cases almost uslessly crippling user interface. perhaps, we (at freebsd) should settle upon a clean easyish simple and lightweight GUI that we accpet as the official freebsd gui and set up a dev team to set it up as the gui that freebsd uses to provide teh 'ease of use' most new users are looking for when they move from another gui'fied platform be it microsoft window, mac, or some other custom platform. thier whole task would be to work on integrating the freebsd gui into/with the freebsd oprating system but keeping it seperate so that it would be like a jacket one could put on when the weather turns bad or one goes from one environment to another .. to use another analogy. when one becomes aclimatised to teh new environment then to get better performance, easier usage and so forth then you could then take off the jecket (take out the gui environment) and use the raw or the cli shell that is the basic way most all operating systems have by way of teh users interoperating with the core of the operating system. I dont think that there is an OS that is the best for all the purposes. Use windows if you want to play the latest games. Use *BSD if you want or need a really good unix. Use linux if .. ( fill in the blanks ;) ) Please let me know if you dont agree, and why. i disagree .. not so much with wghat you have said, maxi, rather with the usage paterns that we have all sortof assumed are teh way things were, work etc, etc, at teh end of teh line all operating systems are really identicle, why ? because an operating system is the controls built into the cpu systems command protocol structure that feeds information to, retrieves information from, queue work streams for the cpu to process, move around its varions media channels. now that shell that we users see, use and or interface with this raw and basic level protocol system/language. now this interface level can be a direct 'text console' cli as in most unix like shells or the ever more popular graphical user interface - gui. over time the developers of these interface tools start to add stuff that makes teh job 'easier' to use untill the point that the whole system become so overgrown that one need special
Re: Releases
oliver, On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 03:45:41PM +0200, Oliver Fromme wrote: Dan Langille [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 10 Apr 2001, at 14:48, David O'Brien wrote: On Tue, Apr 10, 2001 at 06:32:15AM +1200, Dan Langille wrote: AFAIK, the thread to date has been about whether or not [something like] the label "-development" would cause less confusion than "-current". My snipped for compactness Maybe it would reduce confusion somewhat if people would just stop saying ``4.1-stable'' etc. Those simply do not exist. I would also vote for ``uname -r'' saying ``4-STABLE'' and appending the date (similar to the snapshot naming), like ``4-STABLE-20010509''. This is much more useful than ``4.3-STABLE'', IMO. actually, given teh granularity of teh cvs system it might be worthwhile to add hh:mm .. on second thoughts your sugestion is teh sanest i've seen and personally wonder why it wasn't done like this fron teh begining. this is how cvs functions, and give we use cvs why not make it ease fro people to actually use the resources that are provide by cvs, i.e. the very system that we use. with regard and thanks. jonathan Just my 2 Euro cents ... and my two pacific peso centimes .. heading for 1 us cent and falling -- ==== Jonathan Michaels http://www.caamora.com.au PO Box 144, Rosebery, NSW 1445suffering construction anxiety [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message
Re: Releases
On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 09:48:57PM +0200, Oliver Fromme wrote: jonathan michaels [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Apr 11, 2001 at 03:45:41PM +0200, Oliver Fromme wrote: Maybe it would reduce confusion somewhat if people would just stop saying ``4.1-stable'' etc. Those simply do not exist. I would also vote for ``uname -r'' saying ``4-STABLE'' and appending the date (similar to the snapshot naming), like ``4-STABLE-20010509''. This is much more useful than ``4.3-STABLE'', IMO. actually, given teh granularity of teh cvs system it might be worthwhile to add hh:mm .. That would be rather difficult. As far as I know, there is no automatic mechanism to store the current date and time somewhere upon a cvs checkout or update. i wasn't sure, i am sort of fiddling with setting up some sort of source code management system (html, freebsd system sources, tcp/ip network maintenance et al) and i'm starting to get a handle on how cvs/rcs/perforce sort of work. Anyway, just the day should be sufficient in most cases. Think of someone posting a well-known problem to -questions or -stable, and giving his uname output which says, for example, ``4-STABLE-20010509''. Now we can tell him to upgrade because it was fixed on 2001-05-20 or whatever. yup, this is what i thought would be the best and given that i couldn't see how to get the granularity required to extract teh exactly required version and given that clocks are out and given that .. a whole lot of other things i endup with (as you rightly pointed out) settling on the date of the day of teh er, um whatever that part of teh 4-stable contium would be called. If he just said ``4.3-STABLE'', it wouldn't help much. yes, this has always been my problem since i started with freebsd back at 2.0.5-release, i could never reconcile who cvs and its mechanisms for getting and making on call 'images' so to speak of either a file, a subsystem or even teh whole of freebsd at a given point in time (usually a given day, being identified by its date). Storing the date (without time of day) in that string would require some cron script somewhere (probably on the master CVS server) that updates the newvers.sh file daily. This might sound like a gross hack, but so far I haven't seen a better idea. "gross hack", not advocating, most people have enough on thier plates already, i can see that getting what one needs from cvs for say releng_4 for say march 23rd 2001 ... then we all can call it freebsd 4-stable-23042001. instead of freebsd 4.?-stable as of sometime early this year and teh other time frame hack normally used. on second thoughts your sugestion is teh sanest i've seen and personally wonder why it wasn't done like this fron teh begining. Probably because of the gross hack that I described above. :-) maybe for teh hours:minutes part but for teh stable-23042001 that (from what i've managed to gather so far, ok) should be ok. just a bit of a discription reorganising because it is muchly what we are using right now, ummm i think. But maybe someone else has a better idea how to achieve that. given the tools we use, i think this sounds like teh most likely cource of action to take (from my perspective) but, ok, your probably right. with regards and thanks jonathan -- ==== Jonathan Michaels http://www.caamora.com.au PO Box 144, Rosebery, NSW 1445suffering construction anxiety [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message
Re: Roasting Newbies
On Fri, Oct 08, 1999 at 05:37:29AM -0500, Mike Pritchard wrote: On Thu, Oct 07, 1999 at 05:20:45PM -0400, Michael Lucas wrote: IMHO, tensions on the FreeBSD lists are running at their greatest level since... oh, I'd say mid-96, when I first subscribed to -questions. If a "FreeBSD newbies info page" will help, then I'm all for it. I don't see what sort of "ramifications" it could have, other than to (perhaps) reduce some of the stress all around. If we add a "newusers" web document, then how about 1 or 2 "newusers" on-line manual pages as well. I'm thinking something along the lines of newusers.7 (misc documentation), and newusers.8 (sys admin docs). We can setup the default install /etc/motd to mention these documents in the hope that they will be read. And maybe mention them elsewhere in some of the install documentation, and other places. If someone gives me the text, I'll be sure that it gets converted to our current man page style somehow (either by me, or someone I con...err, convince to do it :-). I'm sure given quality text, we can find someone to convert it to docbook format, and I can probably do that, too, if no one else steps up to do that. see what sue blake [EMAIL PROTECTED] has produced and posts regularly, every saterday from memory in, for and the education of how beginners, and where they can find help. it is posted to freebsd-newbies, which sue does a good job moderating. regards jonathan -- === Jonathan Michaels PO Box 144, Rosebery, NSW 1445 Australia ===[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message
