Re: Machine Replication

2005-07-25 Thread Marc Olzheim
On Sat, Jul 23, 2005 at 08:43:00AM +0100, Dick Davies wrote:
> http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/pxe/article.html

Heheh...
This needs updating; only 2 of the vnconfig references have been updated
to mdconfig.

Marc


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Re: Machine Replication

2005-07-23 Thread Dick Davies
* Dan Mack <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [0705 21:05]:
 
> Is there a jumpstart (solaris), kickstart (redhat linux), roboinst (irix),
> or ignite (hpux) like auto-installer for BSD?
> 
> If there was, then I wouldn't image the disk at all, I'd instead setup up 
> custom network images that I could blast to any 
> system just by pxebooting it.  I'm not sure if it is possible with FreeBSD 
> though, anyone?

http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/pxe/article.html

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Re: Machine Replication

2005-07-22 Thread Danny Braniss
> Just as a point of note, I'm not trying to roll out squeeky-clean new 
> machines. Let's say I've got ten-fifteen sets of clusters, I need to be 
> able to just rip a copy and blast it to another machine.
> 
> Thanks for all the responses so far.

you should invest some time to set up a diskless/pxe environment, then
booting diskless is zero pain, and you can then copy disks without
stepping on your toes (or foot shooting).

my .5$
danny


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Re: Machine Replication

2005-07-22 Thread Sebastian Benoit
Danny Howard([EMAIL PROTECTED]) on 2005.07.21 15:10:54 +:
> machine-specific customization.  Then PUBLISH your work before you get
> laid off.  (That is how my last efforts were concluded.)

Oh, yeah :-)

 http://www.mathematik.uni-marburg.de/sys/os/freebsd/

the page is in german, sorry...

Benno
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Re: Machine Replication

2005-07-22 Thread Nick Barnes
At 2005-07-21 19:20:34+, "Eli K. Breen" writes:
> All,
> 
> Does anyone have a good handle on how to replicate (read: image) a 
> freebsd machine from one machine to an ostensibly similar machine?
> 
> So far I've used countless variations and combinations of the following:
> 
> dd(Slow, not usefull if the hardware isn't identical?)

I have used dd | gzip -9 on many occasions. I don't find it especially
slow (it will run at full disk bandwidth, typically 50 MB/sec on
current ATA desktop disks, i.e. 3G/minute), and if you want an actual
bit-for-bit identical replication then it's the only way to go.  It's
also very handy for keeping multi-boot slice images around
(e.g. images of Windows partitions in various states, for testing
purposes).  The compressed images often end up nice and small.

The disadvantage you may have is that your slice table and/or
partition table will be wrong if your target machine has a larger
disk.  This is pretty easy to fix after the fact with a script using
disklabel and/or fdisk.

You will get better compression if you dd /dev/zero to your source
machine before the initial installation, so that empty sectors are all
zeroes.  One day I will write a program which zeroes empty blocks of
an unmounted filesystem

> tar   (Doesn't replicate MBR)
> rsync (No MBR support)

Replicating the MBR is exceptionally easy with dd: it's the first
sector of the disk.  Note that this first sector also includes the
slice table.  You could easily use dd in combination with tar and
rsync.

> Norton Ghost  (Doesn't support UFS/UFS2?)
> G4U   (little experience with this)

I notice that 'dump' is not in your list.  Why is that?

Nick Barnes
Ravenbrook Limited
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RE: Machine Replication

2005-07-22 Thread Scott, Brian
For what its worth I use Norton Ghost to regularly set up a classroom of
machines with FreeBSD 5.3, mostly because other teachers put Windoze
stuff on the same boxes so the Ghost setup makes sense.

Ghost doesn't understand UFS but doesn't need to. It just takes a block
by block copy of the whole partition. To keep the images a reasonable
size I do a
dd if=/dev/zero bs=1m of=/junk; rm /junk
(repeat for every file system) before imaging and tell ghost to do high
compression. Compressing lots of zeros is really efficient so the images
come out a reasonable size. Using multicasting I can dump the image in
parallel onto 15 machines and have the system installed in under 10
minutes. IP configuration is done with DHCP so thats all
straightforward. I use a small dhcp client hook script to change the
system name based on IP so I even get unique system names

The fact that the hardware on all of the target machines is the same is
obviously a huge benefit because I can use a single X configuration, but
FreeBSD travels to new hardware a lot better than any of the other O/Ss
do. The only real issue is that I have some variety of hard disk types
but providing the original partition isn't bigger than my smallest
target drive, Ghost looks after everything properly.

I haven't found a decent freeware alternative that I could get the same
results from but hope to some day.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eli K. Breen
Sent: Friday, 22 July 2005 5:21 AM
To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
Subject: Machine Replication

All,

Does anyone have a good handle on how to replicate (read: image) a 
freebsd machine from one machine to an ostensibly similar machine?

So far I've used countless variations and combinations of the following:

dd  (Slow, not usefull if the hardware isn't identical?)
tar (Doesn't replicate MBR)
rsync   (No MBR support)
Norton Ghost(Doesn't support UFS/UFS2?)
G4U (little experience with this)

Now whether my details are a bit off, that's fine, I don't want this to 
be diluted in to discussion of minute frivolous details (as these things

are wont to do), but what I _am_ looking for is a tried, tested and true

method of FreeBSD machine replication, specifically for the 5.3+
releases.

Many thanks,

-E-
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Re: Machine Replication

2005-07-21 Thread pcasidy
On 21 Jul, Dan Mack wrote:

> 
> Is there a jumpstart (solaris), kickstart (redhat linux), roboinst (irix),
> or ignite (hpux) like auto-installer for BSD?
> 
> If there was, then I wouldn't image the disk at all, I'd instead setup up 
> custom network images that I could blast to any system just by pxebooting 
> it.  I'm not sure if it is possible with FreeBSD though, anyone?
> 

According to its manpage, 'sysinstall' is supposed to be able to read a
config file in order to be able to configure an installation with no
user interaction.

Philippe.

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Re: Machine Replication

2005-07-21 Thread Craig Boston
On Thu, Jul 21, 2005 at 12:20:34PM -0700, Eli K. Breen wrote:
> dd(Slow, not usefull if the hardware isn't identical?)

I use dd a lot for this type of thing and don't see how it could
possibly be slower than any other method that duplicates the entire raw
drive.  Make sure to give it a "bs=1m" option as reading/writing the
disk in 512 byte chunks is a lot slower than larger blocks.

If your disks have a lot of free space, copying the filesystem using
dump/restore can be faster, but it's not an *exact* bit-for-bit copy.
The resulting filesystem is functionally equivalent though, so it's
probably the best way for duplicating UFS(2) filesystems.  You do have
to partition manually, but you would probably want to do that if the new
drive was a different size anyway.

Craig
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Re: Machine Replication

2005-07-21 Thread Andrea Campi
On Thu, Jul 21, 2005 at 03:04:01PM -0500, Dan Mack wrote:
> Is there a jumpstart (solaris), kickstart (redhat linux), roboinst (irix),
> or ignite (hpux) like auto-installer for BSD?
> 
> If there was, then I wouldn't image the disk at all, I'd instead setup up 
> custom network images that I could blast to any system just by pxebooting 
> it.  I'm not sure if it is possible with FreeBSD though, anyone?

Well, sysinstall is perfectly capable of doing this, as it's fully
"scriptable". You can setup a pxeboot-install environment by setting up
a dhcp/tftp/nfs server, copying a standard release CD, and creating a
simple config file. I don't have exact details handy, but I know it's
possible as it's the way we've been pressing FreeBSD boxes at $REALJOB
for ages. You'll find plenty (well, some) of information in the archives
as well.

Bye,
Andrea

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Re: Machine Replication

2005-07-21 Thread Karl Denninger
Yep.  Pretty much what I used to do with my ISP.

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On Thu, Jul 21, 2005 at 03:03:31PM -0700, Eli K. Breen wrote:
> I should point out, this is for replication in a running production 
> environment. Machines cannot be taken down, and swapping hardware is not 
> an option.
> 
> I'm currently experimenting with a copy of the MBR, and the root 
> partition on a CD, with enough tools to attach to the network to 
> retrieve images of the rest of the partitions (which can be taken as 
> current snapshots from various servers).
> 
> This _should_ result in the following scenario:
> 
> Boot new machine with CD
> partition drive(s)
> dump MBR
> dump root
> ssh [EMAIL PROTECTED] 'dump -C 64 -0af - /sliceX'| (cd /usr; restore -rf -)
> [repeat above for all drives, could be automated]
> 
> Seem reasonable?
> 
> -E-
> 
> 
> Elliot Finley wrote:
> >- Original Message - 
> >From: "Francois Tigeot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> >>On Thu, Jul 21, 2005 at 12:20:34PM -0700, Eli K. Breen wrote:
> >>
> >>>Does anyone have a good handle on how to replicate (read: image) a
> >>>freebsd machine from one machine to an ostensibly similar machine?
> >>
> >>[...]
> >>
> >>
> >>>Now whether my details are a bit off, that's fine, I don't want this to
> >>>be diluted in to discussion of minute frivolous details (as these 
> >>>things
> >>>are wont to do), but what I _am_ looking for is a tried, tested and 
> >>>true
> >>>method of FreeBSD machine replication, specifically for the 5.3+
> >
> >releases.
> >
> >>I have found the following paper to be incredibly usefull :
> >>
> >>http://www.pix.net/software/pxeboot/archive/SANE.pdf
> >>
> >>I used some of the ideas in it to clone machines in the 5.1-5.2 era.
> >
> >
> >You could also just mirror the drive with a Promise RAID 1 card.  I've 
> >done
> >that a couple of times and it works really well.
> >
> >Elliot
> >
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Re: Machine Replication

2005-07-21 Thread Danny Howard
On Thu, Jul 21, 2005 at 03:04:01PM -0500, Dan Mack wrote:
> 
> 
> Is there a jumpstart (solaris), kickstart (redhat linux), roboinst (irix),
> or ignite (hpux) like auto-installer for BSD?

No.  g4u and a script might do a good job for you if your hardware is
mostly similar.

> If there was, then I wouldn't image the disk at all, I'd instead setup up 
> custom network images that I could blast to any system just by pxebooting 
> it.  I'm not sure if it is possible with FreeBSD though, anyone?

It is possible.  I have done it before.  I had some of those funky VA
Linux machines which need the dongle boxes to support video and keyboard.
I had them booting from hard drive or DHCP, and if I wanted to re-image
a machine I just had to clobber the MBR and reboot. :)

Setting up the disk partition with sysinstall was the biggest bitch.

If I were to set up a system like this again, I might do something with
g4u to set out the basic systems, with an rc script that can pull a
post-install recipe which does things like growfs /usr/local, and do
machine-specific customization.  Then PUBLISH your work before you get
laid off.  (That is how my last efforts were concluded.)

Cheers,
-danny

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Re: Machine Replication

2005-07-21 Thread Eli K. Breen
I should point out, this is for replication in a running production 
environment. Machines cannot be taken down, and swapping hardware is not 
an option.


I'm currently experimenting with a copy of the MBR, and the root 
partition on a CD, with enough tools to attach to the network to 
retrieve images of the rest of the partitions (which can be taken as 
current snapshots from various servers).


This _should_ result in the following scenario:

Boot new machine with CD
partition drive(s)
dump MBR
dump root
ssh [EMAIL PROTECTED] 'dump -C 64 -0af - /sliceX'| (cd /usr; restore -rf -)
[repeat above for all drives, could be automated]

Seem reasonable?

-E-


Elliot Finley wrote:
- Original Message - 
From: "Francois Tigeot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>



On Thu, Jul 21, 2005 at 12:20:34PM -0700, Eli K. Breen wrote:


Does anyone have a good handle on how to replicate (read: image) a
freebsd machine from one machine to an ostensibly similar machine?


[...]



Now whether my details are a bit off, that's fine, I don't want this to
be diluted in to discussion of minute frivolous details (as these things
are wont to do), but what I _am_ looking for is a tried, tested and true
method of FreeBSD machine replication, specifically for the 5.3+


releases.


I have found the following paper to be incredibly usefull :

http://www.pix.net/software/pxeboot/archive/SANE.pdf

I used some of the ideas in it to clone machines in the 5.1-5.2 era.



You could also just mirror the drive with a Promise RAID 1 card.  I've done
that a couple of times and it works really well.

Elliot


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Re: Machine Replication

2005-07-21 Thread Francois Tigeot
On Thu, Jul 21, 2005 at 12:20:34PM -0700, Eli K. Breen wrote:
> 
> Does anyone have a good handle on how to replicate (read: image) a 
> freebsd machine from one machine to an ostensibly similar machine?

[...]

> Now whether my details are a bit off, that's fine, I don't want this to 
> be diluted in to discussion of minute frivolous details (as these things 
> are wont to do), but what I _am_ looking for is a tried, tested and true 
> method of FreeBSD machine replication, specifically for the 5.3+ releases.

I have found the following paper to be incredibly usefull :

http://www.pix.net/software/pxeboot/archive/SANE.pdf

I used some of the ideas in it to clone machines in the 5.1-5.2 era.

-- 
Francois Tigeot, CEO, Zefyris
http://www.zefyris.com/
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RE: Machine Replication

2005-07-21 Thread Andresen,Jason R.
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eli K. Breen
>Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 3:21 PM
>To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org
>Subject: Machine Replication
>
>All,
>
>Does anyone have a good handle on how to replicate (read: image) a 
>freebsd machine from one machine to an ostensibly similar machine?
>
>So far I've used countless variations and combinations of the 
>following:
>
>dd (Slow, not usefull if the hardware isn't identical?)
>tar(Doesn't replicate MBR)
>rsync  (No MBR support)
>Norton Ghost   (Doesn't support UFS/UFS2?)
>G4U(little experience with this)

If you need stuff replicated fast and you don't mind a bit of setup,
there is emulab http://www.emulab.net/.  I can push out new images to
machines in less than 10 minutes including the time it takes to reboot
twice (once into the imager and once back to the OS).  

You may need to use UFS1 for your filesystems though, I don't know if
the imager can handle UFS2 yet.  We use UFS1 here just to be safe.  
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Re: Machine Replication

2005-07-21 Thread Karl Denninger
I had a shell script that would replicate a machine when I ran my ISP; you
put the loader and partition table, plus a minimal system on the new machine,
then ran the script and pointed it at the "source".

UUUPPP!  In about 20 minutes it was done.

Not hard to do at all with a simple shell script.

Used this all the time to "push" new OS versions out to the cluster (a
couple of dozen machines) when I was done testing them as well as
adding new machines to the existing cluster as demand warranted.

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On Thu, Jul 21, 2005 at 03:04:01PM -0500, Dan Mack wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Jul 2005, Eli K. Breen wrote:
> 
> >All,
> >
> >Does anyone have a good handle on how to replicate (read: image) a 
> >freebsd machine from one machine to an ostensibly similar machine?
> >
> >So far I've used countless variations and combinations of the following:
> >
> >dd   (Slow, not usefull if the hardware isn't identical?)
> >tar  (Doesn't replicate MBR)
> >rsync(No MBR support)
> >Norton Ghost (Doesn't support UFS/UFS2?)
> >G4U  (little experience with this)
> 
> 
> 
> Is there a jumpstart (solaris), kickstart (redhat linux), roboinst (irix),
> or ignite (hpux) like auto-installer for BSD?
> 
> If there was, then I wouldn't image the disk at all, I'd instead setup up 
> custom network images that I could blast to any system just by pxebooting 
> it.  I'm not sure if it is possible with FreeBSD though, anyone?
> 
> Dan
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Re: Machine Replication

2005-07-21 Thread Eli K. Breen
Just as a point of note, I'm not trying to roll out squeeky-clean new 
machines. Let's say I've got ten-fifteen sets of clusters, I need to be 
able to just rip a copy and blast it to another machine.


Thanks for all the responses so far.

-E-

Dan Mack wrote:

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005, Eli K. Breen wrote:


All,

Does anyone have a good handle on how to replicate (read: image) a 
freebsd machine from one machine to an ostensibly similar machine?


So far I've used countless variations and combinations of the following:

dd(Slow, not usefull if the hardware isn't identical?)
tar(Doesn't replicate MBR)
rsync(No MBR support)
Norton Ghost (Doesn't support UFS/UFS2?)
G4U(little experience with this)





Is there a jumpstart (solaris), kickstart (redhat linux), roboinst (irix),
or ignite (hpux) like auto-installer for BSD?

If there was, then I wouldn't image the disk at all, I'd instead setup 
up custom network images that I could blast to any system just by 
pxebooting it.  I'm not sure if it is possible with FreeBSD though, anyone?


Dan

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Re: Machine Replication

2005-07-21 Thread Dan Mack

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005, Eli K. Breen wrote:


All,

Does anyone have a good handle on how to replicate (read: image) a freebsd 
machine from one machine to an ostensibly similar machine?


So far I've used countless variations and combinations of the following:

dd  (Slow, not usefull if the hardware isn't identical?)
tar (Doesn't replicate MBR)
rsync   (No MBR support)
Norton Ghost(Doesn't support UFS/UFS2?)
G4U (little experience with this)




Is there a jumpstart (solaris), kickstart (redhat linux), roboinst (irix),
or ignite (hpux) like auto-installer for BSD?

If there was, then I wouldn't image the disk at all, I'd instead setup up 
custom network images that I could blast to any system just by pxebooting 
it.  I'm not sure if it is possible with FreeBSD though, anyone?


Dan
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Re: Machine Replication

2005-07-21 Thread Mike Tancsa

At 03:20 PM 21/07/2005, Eli K. Breen wrote:

All,

Does anyone have a good handle on how to replicate (read: image) a freebsd 
machine from one machine to an ostensibly similar machine?


So far I've used countless variations and combinations of the following:

dd  (Slow, not usefull if the hardware isn't identical?)
tar (Doesn't replicate MBR)
rsync   (No MBR support)
Norton Ghost(Doesn't support UFS/UFS2?)
G4U (little experience with this)



g4u is a REALLY nice front end to dd basically, but works very well and is 
reasonably fast.


If you want fast,
dump | restore
as it will only copy data and ignore empty blocks.  You then just need to 
install the MBR which is easy to do via sysinstall if you are not 
comfortable disklabel


e.g.

cd /;dump -C 20 -0f - / | (cd /mnt/root-disk; restore -rf - )
cd /;dump -C 20 -0f - /usr | (cd /mnt/usr-disk; restore -rf - )

and so on.

---Mike 


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Re: Machine Replication

2005-07-21 Thread asym

At 15:20 7/21/2005, Eli K. Breen wrote:

All,

Does anyone have a good handle on how to replicate (read: image) a freebsd 
machine from one machine to an ostensibly similar machine?


So far I've used countless variations and combinations of the following:

dd(Slow, not usefull if the hardware isn't identical?)
tar   (Doesn't replicate MBR)
rsync   (No MBR support)
Norton Ghost  (Doesn't support UFS/UFS2?)
G4U   (little experience with this)


I've found a combination of dd + tar works great, as documented.

Stick the new drive in the box to be duplicated, use dd on the first 
(forget how many) sectors to copy the mbr and partition tables over, then 
use a tar pipe to copy from one drive to the other, preserving all perms 
and so forth.


Barring that, commercial single-disk duplicators aren't THAT 
expensive.  Hell you could just use a cheap raid card to raid-1 mirror the 
drive, then yank it out and toss it in another box, which I've done on 
occasion when pressed.



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Re: Machine Replication

2005-07-21 Thread Gary Mulder
On Thu, 21 Jul 2005, Eli K. Breen wrote:

> All,
> 
> Does anyone have a good handle on how to replicate (read: image) a 
> freebsd machine from one machine to an ostensibly similar machine?
> 
> So far I've used countless variations and combinations of the following:
> 
> dd(Slow, not usefull if the hardware isn't identical?)
> tar   (Doesn't replicate MBR)
> rsync (No MBR support)
> Norton Ghost  (Doesn't support UFS/UFS2?)
> G4U   (little experience with this)
> 

Try dump and restore. They seem to be fast and reliable (although not
under Linux from all accounts).

I usually use "tar" and "disklabel -B /dev/XXX" out of habit, but have
found that tar doesn't honour the permissions on /tmp and /var/tmp. The
sticky bit is set on these two dirs, but the permissions are not set to
777. This has me wondering what other (dir) perms are not correctly set.

Gary


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Re: Machine Replication

2005-07-21 Thread Karl Denninger
On Thu, Jul 21, 2005 at 12:20:34PM -0700, Eli K. Breen wrote:
> All,
> 
> Does anyone have a good handle on how to replicate (read: image) a 
> freebsd machine from one machine to an ostensibly similar machine?
> 
> So far I've used countless variations and combinations of the following:
> 
> dd(Slow, not usefull if the hardware isn't identical?)
> tar   (Doesn't replicate MBR)
> rsync (No MBR support)
> Norton Ghost  (Doesn't support UFS/UFS2?)
> G4U   (little experience with this)
> 
> Now whether my details are a bit off, that's fine, I don't want this to 
> be diluted in to discussion of minute frivolous details (as these things 
> are wont to do), but what I _am_ looking for is a tried, tested and true 
> method of FreeBSD machine replication, specifically for the 5.3+ releases.
> 
> Many thanks,
> 
> -E-

Define "similar".

If the disk is compatable (target disk equal or larger in size than the 
source), you can use "gmirror" to image a machine, quiesce the machine,
force-detach the hardware (even hot-unplug it if supported) and boot the 
resulting disk (if you set up the gmirror system properly in the 
first place)

Not the fastest method, but it works and copies EVERYTHING.

There are other options but you need to be more specific as to what you
mean by "similar".

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Machine Replication

2005-07-21 Thread Eli K. Breen

All,

Does anyone have a good handle on how to replicate (read: image) a 
freebsd machine from one machine to an ostensibly similar machine?


So far I've used countless variations and combinations of the following:

dd  (Slow, not usefull if the hardware isn't identical?)
tar (Doesn't replicate MBR)
rsync   (No MBR support)
Norton Ghost(Doesn't support UFS/UFS2?)
G4U (little experience with this)

Now whether my details are a bit off, that's fine, I don't want this to 
be diluted in to discussion of minute frivolous details (as these things 
are wont to do), but what I _am_ looking for is a tried, tested and true 
method of FreeBSD machine replication, specifically for the 5.3+ releases.


Many thanks,

-E-
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