Re: Release Schedule for 2006
On Sun, Dec 18, 2005 at 12:06:12PM -0500, Kris Kennaway wrote: Well, no, the sound system is not broken, perhaps a driver just In my case it is broken, I hear cracks and dropouts with my Soundblaster Live card and the emu10k driver. It gets worse with higher loads and uptime. I experienced the same with onboard sound (VIA 8237/ALC850). I think these problems are well known since the first 5.x releases. doesn't work on your hardware (or you're using the wrong driver). You also forgot to describe your system. No, I didn't describe my system(s), because it wasn't my intention to ask for help or support with this mail. When you encounter a problem, as you apparently did, you need to inform the appropriate people (e.g. port maintainer), otherwise there's no way they can help you to resolve it. In this special case (devel/pear) we had a thread in ports@, and the maintainer was involved but obviously couldn't help with this problem, at least he did not comment on this. Uwe ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Release Schedule for 2006
On Sun, Dec 18, 2005 at 12:44:06PM -0800, Doug Barton wrote: regression in this area in RELENG_6, it would be worth reporting to this list, hopefully with enough detail that a developer could help you troubleshoot the problem. This problem already existed in 5.x, please have a look at kern/73744. Two things, first I seem to recall someone saying that the ral hardware is not all that hot to begin with, and you'd be better off with another wifi No, I don't use a ral card, in my case it's a Thinkpad with an iwi card. card. If that's not possible, have you tried upgrading to the latest 6-stable? If it's still not working after that, please report it to the Yes, I was always following RELENG_6 until 2 weeks ago when I finally installed Ubuntu on the Thinkpad, partly because of the wlan-problem, partly because FreeBSD does not boot with a second battery installed instead of the CD-/DVD-drive... list. Also, it's worth noting that if you're trying WPA on 5-stable, you're not likely to succeed. The infrastructure was greatly improved for 6-release. Yes, I know. the state that it is in right now (good or bad) because the community of its users helped make it that way. The only way it gets better is if people help make it better. Relying on them to do it for you is not the FreeBSD way. Yes, I know, although there were other statements recently (fix it or pay someone to fix it for you). tnx, Uwe ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Release Schedule for 2006
On Sat, Dec 17, 2005 at 06:44:48PM -0500, Kris Kennaway wrote: It looks like in the course of writing your long email you forgot to describe any of the problems you are having. I don't know his exact problems either, but I could name you a few examples that currently reduce the fun of using FreeBSD: - The sound sytem is broken in FreeBSD in all 5.x and 6 versions, and I would like to listen to a few mp3-files from time to time. - To my surprise it's almost impossible to use the parallel port with interrupts (interrupt storms), polling mode works... - wlan is broken, my Thinkpad keeps losing WPA-PSK connection very often (probably kern/88793). - Keeping the system and the ports up to date gets more and more time consuming and risky (especially when compared to an apt-get update apt-get upgrade). For example, the last devel/pear update in the ports crashed my PHP installations on 2 development machines (still no clue how to fix this). Don't get me wrong, I certainly don't want to complain, I just wanted to give you some examples. Uwe ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Release Schedule for 2006
Uwe, On Sun, 18 Dec 2005, Uwe Laverenz wrote: On Sat, Dec 17, 2005 at 06:44:48PM -0500, Kris Kennaway wrote: It looks like in the course of writing your long email you forgot to describe any of the problems you are having. I don't know his exact problems either, but I could name you a few examples that currently reduce the fun of using FreeBSD: - The sound sytem is broken in FreeBSD in all 5.x and 6 versions, and I would like to listen to a few mp3-files from time to time. If I was at work and I got a comment or a phone call like this, I would usually sigh heavily and, in a voice dripping with sarcasm, ask the exact same question that I'm going to ask you: How exactly is it broken? Actually, you should probably take it to -questions. snip other fairly vague descriptions - Keeping the system and the ports up to date gets more and more time consuming and risky (especially when compared to an apt-get update apt-get upgrade). For example, the last devel/pear update in the ports crashed my PHP installations on 2 development machines (still no clue how to fix this). I don't use PEAR, but wasn't there something in UPDATING about it? David Adam [EMAIL PROTECTED] UCC Wheel Member (who does plenty with apt, too, and will stick with the ports system thank you very much.) ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Release Schedule for 2006
On Sunday 18 December 2005 15:02, Uwe Laverenz wrote: On Sat, Dec 17, 2005 at 06:44:48PM -0500, Kris Kennaway wrote: It looks like in the course of writing your long email you forgot to describe any of the problems you are having. I don't know his exact problems either, but I could name you a few examples that currently reduce the fun of using FreeBSD: - The sound sytem is broken in FreeBSD in all 5.x and 6 versions, and I would like to listen to a few mp3-files from time to time. Define broken? I put snd_ich_load=YES into /boot/loader.conf, nothing in the kernel and it just works. Listening to SomaFM's Groovesalad via mpg123 as I type. - Keeping the system and the ports up to date gets more and more time consuming and risky (especially when compared to an apt-get update apt-get upgrade). For example, the last devel/pear update in the ports crashed my PHP installations on 2 development machines (still no clue how to fix this). That's independant of -stable/-current or any FreeBSD release for that matter, but if you have a PR to look at... -- Melvyn Sopacua [EMAIL PROTECTED] FreeBSD 6.0-STABLE Qt: 3.3.5 KDE: 3.4.3 ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Release Schedule for 2006
On Sun, Dec 18, 2005 at 03:02:58PM +0100, Uwe Laverenz wrote: On Sat, Dec 17, 2005 at 06:44:48PM -0500, Kris Kennaway wrote: It looks like in the course of writing your long email you forgot to describe any of the problems you are having. I don't know his exact problems either, but I could name you a few examples that currently reduce the fun of using FreeBSD: - The sound sytem is broken in FreeBSD in all 5.x and 6 versions, and I would like to listen to a few mp3-files from time to time. Well, no, the sound system is not broken, perhaps a driver just doesn't work on your hardware (or you're using the wrong driver). You also forgot to describe your system. - Keeping the system and the ports up to date gets more and more time consuming and risky (especially when compared to an apt-get update apt-get upgrade). For example, the last devel/pear update in the ports crashed my PHP installations on 2 development machines (still no clue how to fix this). As far as I can tell nothing has changed here except for random timing of updates. Yes, sometimes when an update it committed it is broken at first or requires extra work on your part to adapt. This has always been true, except thesedays we make a lot more effort to test for problems and describe any additional upgrade steps (see UPDATING). When you encounter a problem, as you apparently did, you need to inform the appropriate people (e.g. port maintainer), otherwise there's no way they can help you to resolve it. Kris pgpGQeOvrmqaH.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Release Schedule for 2006
Thanks to the email from some kind members here, it is likely that my problems are not fatal, just temporarily blocking me. I plan to do another attempt on Mt 6.0, with proper planning, base and upper camps, and of course, porter support. Thanks to those who wrote. BillN ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Release Schedule for 2006
Uwe Laverenz wrote: On Sat, Dec 17, 2005 at 06:44:48PM -0500, Kris Kennaway wrote: It looks like in the course of writing your long email you forgot to describe any of the problems you are having. I don't know his exact problems either, but I could name you a few examples that currently reduce the fun of using FreeBSD: - To my surprise it's almost impossible to use the parallel port with interrupts (interrupt storms), polling mode works... It doesn't surprise me, as most printer hardware is USB nowadays, so I'm sure that these bits haven't been well exercised lately. If there is a regression in this area in RELENG_6, it would be worth reporting to this list, hopefully with enough detail that a developer could help you troubleshoot the problem. - wlan is broken, my Thinkpad keeps losing WPA-PSK connection very often (probably kern/88793). Two things, first I seem to recall someone saying that the ral hardware is not all that hot to begin with, and you'd be better off with another wifi card. If that's not possible, have you tried upgrading to the latest 6-stable? If it's still not working after that, please report it to the list. Also, it's worth noting that if you're trying WPA on 5-stable, you're not likely to succeed. The infrastructure was greatly improved for 6-release. Don't get me wrong, I certainly don't want to complain, I just wanted to give you some examples. Ok, assuming we can take you at face value here, please note the consistent item in both of my responses above. The only way we can fix problems is if we know they exist, and the users experiencing the problems are willing to help with details, and testing solutions. The nature of PC hardware is such that no matter how much a developer tests on what they have (and some of our developers have extensive hardware testing facilities, often purchased with their own money), there will always be corner cases. FreeBSD got to the state that it is in right now (good or bad) because the community of its users helped make it that way. The only way it gets better is if people help make it better. Relying on them to do it for you is not the FreeBSD way. Doug -- This .signature sanitized for your protection ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Release Schedule for 2006
On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 00:32, Uwe Laverenz wrote: On Sat, Dec 17, 2005 at 06:44:48PM -0500, Kris Kennaway wrote: I don't know his exact problems either, but I could name you a few examples that currently reduce the fun of using FreeBSD: If you're going to do this, please write a GOOD bug report. Yes it is more time consuming, but your actually likely to get the problem fixed. - The sound sytem is broken in FreeBSD in all 5.x and 6 versions, and I would like to listen to a few mp3-files from time to time. This is a non bug report. Sound works perfectly on the various pieces of hardware I have (snd_vt8233, snd_ich, snd_t4dwave). - To my surprise it's almost impossible to use the parallel port with interrupts (interrupt storms), polling mode works... This is a fixable side effect of the interrupt storm detector being implemented. Arguably the default limit should be bumped up, but I don't know what the cons are. In your case you can do.. sysctl hw.intr_storm_threshold=5 and all should be well again. - wlan is broken, my Thinkpad keeps losing WPA-PSK connection very often (probably kern/88793). Works for me (tm). Although I have an ath card. Perhaps you should take it up with the ipw(4) driver maintainer? - Keeping the system and the ports up to date gets more and more time consuming and risky (especially when compared to an apt-get update apt-get upgrade). For example, the last devel/pear update in the ports crashed my PHP installations on 2 development machines (still no clue how to fix this). Bit of a hammer, but you could try rebuilding php.. -- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from. -- Andrew Tanenbaum GPG Fingerprint - 5596 B766 97C0 0E94 4347 295E E593 DC20 7B3F CE8C pgp3MUBrdruLO.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Release Schedule for 2006
On Dec 18, 2005, at 8:01 , Daniel O'Connor wrote: On Mon, 19 Dec 2005 00:32, Uwe Laverenz wrote: - wlan is broken, my Thinkpad keeps losing WPA-PSK connection very often (probably kern/88793). Works for me (tm). Although I have an ath card. Perhaps you should take it up with the ipw(4) driver maintainer? Last I heard, *only* ath and maybe the ndisulator worked reliably. : ( I don't know if anyone has stepped forward to maintain any of the other drivers. -- brandon s. allbery [linux,solaris,freebsd,perl] [EMAIL PROTECTED] system administrator [openafs,heimdal,too many hats] [EMAIL PROTECTED] electrical and computer engineering, carnegie mellon university KF8NH ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Release Schedule for 2006
Let me add my voice to this discussion. I have been a happy user of FreeBSD from 4.0 thru 4.11, but have stumbled repeatedly on 5.x and now 6.0. For some reason, I can get these (5 6) installed, but not stable or running KDE, yet 4.11 runs solid for months. In addition, not being able to run KDE from Generic has been an additional headache. This has become such a problem that I finally loaded Suse Linux 10 on my alternate disk so I can move ahead. I use dual 9G disks and alternate installs, stairstepping from one release to the next, with the ability to boot back to an older release. This has worked well until now. This is particularly bad timing because FreeBSD is my *preferred* OS for significant parts of my work, and it was planned to host an important DB project on another machine bought for that purpose. I was hoping that 6.0 would enable me to move ahead on my FreeBSD workstation, and then on my DB project. Instead I am stalled and forced to go to a less preferred solution. I don't know what, if anything, I am doing wrong. I gave away an expensive SOYO MB because FreeBSD would not install, later found out that the advanced SOYO ACPI was the problem, apparently solved later. Color me frustrated. For me the issue is very simple - I need to install release X.Y, install KDE, configure X and get to work. Becoming an internals expert or even small time developer is not what I need to do even though I have done that kind of work in the past. Now I concentrate on getting applications into production, with OS maintenence limited to chasing glitches. Color me very frustrated. I've been used to great stability on FreeBSD, less frequent changes than Linux, and fewer problems. The system just *worked*. No longer. I don't blame anybody on the team for this issue because from my POV, the attention on getting better SMP and generally upgrading the kernel quality was and is a good objective. However, along the way, a few less obvious characteristics have lost out. When it gets to the point that I am forced to use something else despite my efforts, then attention needs to be spent making FreeBSD work 'Out of the Box' again. Simple is good - you can always get complicated if that is your preference, but for a lot of us, FreeBSD is a tool, not a career. Again, this is not a flame but a plea to make the system simply work. BillN http://www.billswrite.com ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Release Schedule for 2006
Bill Nicholls wrote: Let me add my voice to this discussion. I have been a happy user of FreeBSD from 4.0 thru 4.11, but have stumbled repeatedly on 5.x and now 6.0. For some reason, I can get these (5 6) installed, but not stable or running KDE, yet 4.11 runs solid for months. In addition, not being able to run KDE from Generic has been an additional headache. This has become such a problem that I finally loaded Suse Linux 10 on my alternate disk so I can move ahead. I use dual 9G disks and alternate installs, stairstepping from one release to the next, with the ability to boot back to an older release. This has worked well until now. This is particularly bad timing because FreeBSD is my *preferred* OS for significant parts of my work, and it was planned to host an important DB project on another machine bought for that purpose. I was hoping that 6.0 would enable me to move ahead on my FreeBSD workstation, and then on my DB project. Instead I am stalled and forced to go to a less preferred solution. I don't know what, if anything, I am doing wrong. I gave away an expensive SOYO MB because FreeBSD would not install, later found out that the advanced SOYO ACPI was the problem, apparently solved later. Color me frustrated. For me the issue is very simple - I need to install release X.Y, install KDE, configure X and get to work. Becoming an internals expert or even small time developer is not what I need to do even though I have done that kind of work in the past. Now I concentrate on getting applications into production, with OS maintenence limited to chasing glitches. Color me very frustrated. I've been used to great stability on FreeBSD, less frequent changes than Linux, and fewer problems. The system just *worked*. No longer. I don't blame anybody on the team for this issue because from my POV, the attention on getting better SMP and generally upgrading the kernel quality was and is a good objective. However, along the way, a few less obvious characteristics have lost out. When it gets to the point that I am forced to use something else despite my efforts, then attention needs to be spent making FreeBSD work 'Out of the Box' again. Simple is good - you can always get complicated if that is your preference, but for a lot of us, FreeBSD is a tool, not a career. Again, this is not a flame but a plea to make the system simply work. I do not know your situation or what you have tried in order to resolve your problems, but I do know that I have several FreeBSD machines as desktops and they all work great. My main desktop is an Athlon64 3000+ running FreeBSD 5.4-RELEASE [amd64]. I am not sure why you have not been able to get X and KDE running. I don't use KDE anymore, but it was extremely simple to get X and my window manager (Xfce) up and running. I installed the Xorg and Xfce4 metaports and it was as simple as that. I did the Xorg -configure steps outlined in the handbook, copied the configuration file to the proper place, and I was up and running. I cannot code anything but I had the system up and running in only the time it took to compile things and modify a few config files. I've also setup FreeBSD as a desktop on my Athlon XP 2000+ (FreeBSD 5.4-RELEASE) which did run KDE before, my Athlon XP 1800+ (FreeBSD 5.4-RELEASE), and my 533MHz Compaq Laptop (FreeBSD 6.0-RC1). All of those were able to get X and my window manager of choice (Xfce on two, and fvwm on laptop) installed very quickly and easily through ports (and packages on laptop). I have not used 6.0-RELEASE at all yet, and only use my laptop with RC1 of 6.0 a little. So far there have been no issues with any of my machines except one random reboot on my amd64 that I have yet to track down. However, my point is that most people do not have problems that prevent them from getting a working machine or have the need to modify code as you said you do. That's the beauty of the ports system. You can install things easily that were ported to work with FreeBSD. Whether applications require special configure arguments, code changes, or other settings, the ports system is there to automate that whole process and build things so they do work right. I'm not blaming it on you or saying it's your error, but without knowing the actual issues I must say it sounds very weird and isolated. Just one thing to keep in mind though: If you have issues, why not ask the very helpful FreeBSD community? Mailing lists like freebsd-questions have great people who are willing to help people out with questions and issues like yours. I've gotten help there when I've had some weird problems and I also try to help whenever I can. In other words, if it was me, I would try my best to solve it first before switching operating systems...especially since I love FreeBSD so much. Again, I don't know your particular issues/problems, but I am certain there would be some help available for you. Just my input/comments. -Mark --
Re: Release Schedule for 2006
On Sat, Dec 17, 2005 at 10:23:05AM -0800, Bill Nicholls wrote: Let me add my voice to this discussion. I have been a happy user of FreeBSD from 4.0 thru 4.11, but have stumbled repeatedly on 5.x and now 6.0. It looks like in the course of writing your long email you forgot to describe any of the problems you are having. Kris pgpNTyNsoBayy.pgp Description: PGP signature
