Re: [Freedos-devel] GUI shell

2016-02-17 Thread Mateusz Viste 
As most people that responded yet, I do not use GUI stuff on DOS, hence 
such application would be useless to me. GUI projects were probably 
interesting back in 1992, when people were *forced* to use DOS, and many 
wished some easy colourful interface. But today, the only people still 
using DOS are these that likes DOS for what it is - ie. a single-task, 
text-mode shell.

Anyway, myself - I wouldn't ever use such GUI. If you're looking for 
ideas for a DOS project, then there is one particular thing that I would 
be thrilled to use in DOS (and that I plan to create myself one day, 
when time allows, unless someone fills the gap before): an open-source 
(BSD, GPL or PD) equivalent of the excellent SEA DOS Viewer program. 
That is, a very fast, multi-format image viewer with a nice UI, scaling 
capabilities and some embedded conversion tools.

Mateusz



On 17/02/2016 21:19, Maarten Vermeulen wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> It’s not really about FreeDOS… but it has something to do with it. :)
>
> I thought that maybe if you all like the idea, I could make a GUI shell.
> It would be exclusive of course. Though, It will be especially for
> FreeDOS. And maybe also MS-DOS and Night DOS. It’s a sort of a vote.
> Would you like the idea of a new GUI shell? Something new, newer then
> the old original (still nice) Windows shells (Windows 1.0; 1.10; 2.0
> etc.). I liked the idea, but if no one likes the idea it’s a bit of a
> pointless thing. Also this will be a second project, where I can work on
> when my other project (BirdOS) is paused for a bit. Then I can wipe my
> mind for a bit.. :)
>
> Some things though:
>
> -Can a 16-bit OS load bitmap images?
>
> -Can, if the idea is voted as a yes, I ‘borrow the FreeDOS logo for [1].
>
> [1] a ‘made for FreeDOS 1.2’ and ‘compatible with FreeDOS ‘1.1’
> emblem/image. This will (maybe) be done with several OS’s.. It will be
> especially for FreeDOS.
>
> Get the discussion going! :)
>
> -Maarten



--
Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance
APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month
Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now
Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now!
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151=/4140
___
Freedos-devel mailing list
Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel

Re: [Freedos-devel] GUI shell

2016-02-17 Thread Maarten Vermeulen 
Hi,

Well, my decision was to ask you all. What you all think is my decision. 
Because I do want to know what you all think of the idea. Because you given a 
answer saying “I, too, do not care much for a GUI shell”. This is good, if you 
all say that, that would be my decision. :)

Maarten



Van: Jose Antonio Senna
Verzonden: donderdag 18 februari 2016 00:28
Aan: Freedos Developers
Onderwerp: [Freedos-devel] GUI shell

Maarten Vermeulen said:

> It�s not really about FreeDOS� but it has something to do 
>with it. :)
> I thought that maybe if you all like the idea, I could make 
>a GUI shell. 

  I, too, do not care much for a GUI shell.

  I think instead that it would be much better if someone 
wrote a graphics API for DOS (something like Windows GDI) 
that could be loaded as a TSR and used by programs that need
graphics, for one weakness of DOS is that every program that
displays graphics (CAD, image viewers, drafting) has to 
provide its own functions to do so. 
 
  However, the decision is Maarten's, for it is him who 
 offered to do the work.
  
  JAS
 



--
Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance
APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month
Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now
Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now!
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151=/4140___
Freedos-devel mailing list
Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel

Re: [Freedos-devel] GUI shell - and ReactOS 0.4

2016-02-17 Thread Maarten Vermeulen 
Okay, that maybe is something. The last option will maybe too difficult. But I 
don’t know that because I didn’t research, yet.
I will look for it.

Thank you,
Maarten

Van: Eric Auer
Verzonden: donderdag 18 februari 2016 01:27
Aan: Technical discussion and questions for FreeDOS developers.
Onderwerp: [Freedos-devel] GUI shell - and ReactOS 0.4


Hi Maarten,

whether you want to make a GUI shell depends on how happy
you are with the existing solutions. Also, it depends on
whether you mainly want to make a file manager (various,
at least free, sometimes open, solutions already exist)
or something where you can run graphical apps. Louis and
Jim already sent some pointers about the latter. If you
would invent a new GUI for apps, almost no apps would be
available for it, so it would not be very interesting...

The same holds for Jose's suggestion to make resident GUI
toolkit driver: Most apps simply use existing libraries,
so there is no need to invent something new. However, it
could be interesting to port frameworks (as has been done
for FLTK, maybe SDL) to DOS, making it easier to port apps.

https://sourceforge.net/projects/fltk-dos/files/

The current way to run SDL apps in DOS is to use HX RT:
SDL only uses a relatively small list of Win API calls.

You could also work on supporting a complete existing OS
with all apps - this is what HX DOS Extender (limited DOS
support for Windows apps), ReactOS and Wine are doing and
supporting some of the OS/2 API might give fun as well.

Note that your GUI would have nothing to do with FreeDOS
in particular. It would simply be an generic DOS app :-)

Regards, Eric


PS: Related news: www.bttr-software.de/forum/forum_entry.php?id=14646

On February 16, 2016, ReactOS 0.4.0 (alpha) was released.

Changes: "A much requested feature for ReactOS was support for 16bit DOS
applications. On Windows this support is provided by the NT Virtual DOS
Machine (NTVDM) and the ReactOS implementation of it was first formally
released in version 0.3.17. Needless to say since then the ReactOS NTVDM
has seen considerable improvement to the point where many of the testers
are sharing examples of old DOS games resurrected. And one of the
biggest advantages to the way in which NTVDM is implemented in ReactOS
is that support for it will continue on non IA-32 platforms, including
AMD64 and even ARM."

Website: https://www.reactos.org/

Downloads: https://www.reactos.org/download



--
Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance
APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month
Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now
Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now!
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151=/4140
___
Freedos-devel mailing list
Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel

--
Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance
APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month
Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now
Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now!
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151=/4140___
Freedos-devel mailing list
Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel

Re: [Freedos-devel] An idea???

2016-02-17 Thread Maarten Vermeulen 
Hi,

Interesting what you all think of it. :)
I didn’t research, I first wanted to see what you all think of the idea. And 
actually it’s a bit of a mixed. But definitely some good reactions where there. 
OpenGEM is maybe an option, I will look for that. I will also do some research. 
So what I get out of this is actually (correct me if I am wrong):

- Don’t make a new shell, it’s better to fix problems with the other already 
existing shells.
- Make something difficult, that doesn’t really exist as much as the ‘file 
finder’ shell.
- Much of you don’t really care, it already exists to much?


Thank you!
Maarten




--
Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance
APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month
Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now
Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now!
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151=/4140___
Freedos-devel mailing list
Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel

Re: [Freedos-devel] GUI shell

2016-02-17 Thread Steve Nickolas 
On Wed, 17 Feb 2016, Jose Antonio Senna wrote:

> Maarten Vermeulen said:
>
>> It?s not really about FreeDOS? but it has something to do
>> with it. :)
>> I thought that maybe if you all like the idea, I could make
>> a GUI shell.
>
>  I, too, do not care much for a GUI shell.
>
>  I think instead that it would be much better if someone
> wrote a graphics API for DOS (something like Windows GDI)
> that could be loaded as a TSR and used by programs that need
> graphics, for one weakness of DOS is that every program that
> displays graphics (CAD, image viewers, drafting) has to
> provide its own functions to do so.
>
>  However, the decision is Maarten's, for it is him who
> offered to do the work.
>
>  JAS
>
>
>
>

Isn't that basically what GEM is?

-uso.

--
Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance
APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month
Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now
Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now!
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151=/4140
___
Freedos-devel mailing list
Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel

[Freedos-devel] GUI shell - and ReactOS 0.4

2016-02-17 Thread Eric Auer 

Hi Maarten,

whether you want to make a GUI shell depends on how happy
you are with the existing solutions. Also, it depends on
whether you mainly want to make a file manager (various,
at least free, sometimes open, solutions already exist)
or something where you can run graphical apps. Louis and
Jim already sent some pointers about the latter. If you
would invent a new GUI for apps, almost no apps would be
available for it, so it would not be very interesting...

The same holds for Jose's suggestion to make resident GUI
toolkit driver: Most apps simply use existing libraries,
so there is no need to invent something new. However, it
could be interesting to port frameworks (as has been done
for FLTK, maybe SDL) to DOS, making it easier to port apps.

https://sourceforge.net/projects/fltk-dos/files/

The current way to run SDL apps in DOS is to use HX RT:
SDL only uses a relatively small list of Win API calls.

You could also work on supporting a complete existing OS
with all apps - this is what HX DOS Extender (limited DOS
support for Windows apps), ReactOS and Wine are doing and
supporting some of the OS/2 API might give fun as well.

Note that your GUI would have nothing to do with FreeDOS
in particular. It would simply be an generic DOS app :-)

Regards, Eric


PS: Related news: www.bttr-software.de/forum/forum_entry.php?id=14646

On February 16, 2016, ReactOS 0.4.0 (alpha) was released.

Changes: "A much requested feature for ReactOS was support for 16bit DOS
applications. On Windows this support is provided by the NT Virtual DOS
Machine (NTVDM) and the ReactOS implementation of it was first formally
released in version 0.3.17. Needless to say since then the ReactOS NTVDM
has seen considerable improvement to the point where many of the testers
are sharing examples of old DOS games resurrected. And one of the
biggest advantages to the way in which NTVDM is implemented in ReactOS
is that support for it will continue on non IA-32 platforms, including
AMD64 and even ARM."

Website: https://www.reactos.org/

Downloads: https://www.reactos.org/download



--
Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance
APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month
Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now
Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now!
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151=/4140
___
Freedos-devel mailing list
Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel

Re: [Freedos-devel] An idea???

2016-02-17 Thread Louis Santillan 
Maarten,

You should familiarize yourself with what's already been done.
OPENGEM/GEM [0], SEAL[1], DOSStart [2], others [3][4][5].


[0] http://www.freedos.org/software/?prog=opengem
[1] http://sealsystem.sourceforge.net/
[2] 
https://web.archive.org/web/20120818224825/http://www.icdc.com/~dnice/dosstart.html
[3] http://www.pldos.pl/windos/spectra.htm
[4] 
https://web.archive.org/web/20080402084721/http://members.aol.com/aumenu/menudwn.html
[5] http://members.quicknet.nl/blankendaalr/


On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 12:19 PM, Maarten Vermeulen  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> It’s not really about FreeDOS… but it has something to do with it. :)
>
> I thought that maybe if you all like the idea, I could make a GUI shell. It
> would be exclusive of course. Though, It will be especially for FreeDOS. And
> maybe also MS-DOS and Night DOS. It’s a sort of a vote. Would you like the
> idea of a new GUI shell? Something new, newer then the old original (still
> nice) Windows shells (Windows 1.0; 1.10; 2.0 etc.). I liked the idea, but if
> no one likes the idea it’s a bit of a pointless thing. Also this will be a
> second project, where I can work on when my other project (BirdOS) is paused
> for a bit. Then I can wipe my mind for a bit.. :)
>
>
>
> Some things though:
>
>
>
> -  Can a 16-bit OS load bitmap images?
>
> -  Can, if the idea is voted as a yes, I ‘borrow the FreeDOS logo
> for [1].
>
>
>
> [1] a ‘made for FreeDOS 1.2’ and ‘compatible with FreeDOS ‘1.1’
> emblem/image. This will (maybe) be done with several OS’s.. It will be
> especially for FreeDOS.
>
>
>
> Get the discussion going! :)
>
>
>
> -Maarten
>
>
>
>
> --
> Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance
> APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month
> Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now
> Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now!
> http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151=/4140
> ___
> Freedos-devel mailing list
> Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel
>

--
Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance
APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month
Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now
Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now!
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151=/4140
___
Freedos-devel mailing list
Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel

Re: [Freedos-devel] An idea???

2016-02-17 Thread Jim Hall 
Rather than create your own new GUI from scratch, might I convince you to
improve & modernize an existing DOS GUI such as those listed here:
http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/gui/

SEAL or OpenGEM might be interesting starting points.
--
Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance
APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month
Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now
Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now!
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151=/4140___
Freedos-devel mailing list
Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel

Re: [Freedos-devel] An idea???

2016-02-17 Thread Ralf Quint 

On 2/17/2016 12:19 PM, Maarten Vermeulen wrote:


Hi all,

It’s not really about FreeDOS… but it has something to do with it. :)

I thought that maybe if you all like the idea, I could make a GUI 
shell. It would be exclusive of course. Though, It will be especially 
for FreeDOS. And maybe also MS-DOS and Night DOS. It’s a sort of a 
vote. Would you like the idea of a new GUI shell? Something new, newer 
then the old original (still nice) Windows shells (Windows 1.0; 1.10; 
2.0 etc.). I liked the idea, but if no one likes the idea it’s a bit 
of a pointless thing. Also this will be a second project, where I can 
work on when my other project (BirdOS) is paused for a bit. Then I can 
wipe my mind for a bit.. :)



Well, to each his/her own...
"I" personally don't care much about a GUI shell, but other might. 
However, a general problem, with all of those GUI shell projects in the 
past is that none of them ever got to the point where they seemed to be 
useful...


Some things though:

-Can a 16-bit OS load bitmap images?

That has nothing to do with the OS, 16bit or not. That would be a 
function of YOUR software, the GUI shell you want to produce...




Ralf


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
--
Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance
APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month
Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now
Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now!
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151=/4140___
Freedos-devel mailing list
Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel

[Freedos-devel] An idea???

2016-02-17 Thread Maarten Vermeulen 
Hi all,

It’s not really about FreeDOS… but it has something to do with it. :)
I thought that maybe if you all like the idea, I could make a GUI shell. It 
would be exclusive of course. Though, It will be especially for FreeDOS. And 
maybe also MS-DOS and Night DOS. It’s a sort of a vote. Would you like the idea 
of a new GUI shell? Something new, newer then the old original (still nice) 
Windows shells (Windows 1.0; 1.10; 2.0 etc.). I liked the idea, but if no one 
likes the idea it’s a bit of a pointless thing. Also this will be a second 
project, where I can work on when my other project (BirdOS) is paused for a 
bit. Then I can wipe my mind for a bit.. :)

Some things though:

- Can a 16-bit OS load bitmap images?
- Can, if the idea is voted as a yes, I ‘borrow the FreeDOS logo for [1].

[1] a ‘made for FreeDOS 1.2’ and ‘compatible with FreeDOS ‘1.1’ emblem/image. 
This will (maybe) be done with several OS’s.. It will be especially for FreeDOS.

Get the discussion going! :)

-Maarten

--
Site24x7 APM Insight: Get Deep Visibility into Application Performance
APM + Mobile APM + RUM: Monitor 3 App instances at just $35/Month
Monitor end-to-end web transactions and take corrective actions now
Troubleshoot faster and improve end-user experience. Signup Now!
http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=272487151=/4140___
Freedos-devel mailing list
Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel