Re: [Freedos-devel] Updating the FreeDOS website (progress)

[Jim Hall]

On Mon, Jan 3, 2022 at 6:46 PM richardkolacz...@hotmail.com <
richardkolacz...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Jim
>
> Fair enough NOT to have "additional buttons" on the first web page.
>
> It would be nice (for me) to identify by a -mmm-dd text as to the
> update status of the development build, so for example :-
>
> With the (pink) Download FreeDOS button - the button also has the text in
> smaller print, "Last updated 2022-Mar-02" so one can tell quickly regarding
> the development builds.
>
> By having the above date message as part of the first web page - means one
> less "hoop" to jump through to establish if one has the latest development
> package. I personally find it somewhat unpleasant to jump through extra
> "hoops" when for the sake of a short text message (say in small print)
> important information is immediately at hand - with Windows 10 for example,
> extra "hoops" such as paging down on a "heavily spaced" page or selecting a
> sub-menu that only has "one item" in it, illustrates the "poor" (in my
> opinion) layout of Windows.
>
>

Very helpful, thanks for the clarification. I think I can modify some text
on the front page, probably as a "tag" or something in that first box that
says the current version(s) and the date(s) updated.


Jim
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Updating the FreeDOS website (progress)

[richardkolacz...@hotmail.com]

Jim

Fair enough NOT to have "additional buttons" on the first web page.

It would be nice (for me) to identify by a -mmm-dd text as to the update 
status of the development build, so for example :-

With the (pink) Download FreeDOS button - the button also has the text in 
smaller print, "Last updated 2022-Mar-02" so one can tell quickly regarding the 
development builds.

By having the above date message as part of the first web page - means one less 
"hoop" to jump through to establish if one has the latest development package. 
I personally find it somewhat unpleasant to jump through extra "hoops" when for 
the sake of a short text message (say in small print) important information is 
immediately at hand - with Windows 10 for example, extra "hoops" such as paging 
down on a "heavily spaced" page or selecting a sub-menu that only has "one 
item" in it, illustrates the "poor" (in my opinion) layout of Windows.

Anyway, just a "suggestion"

Richard


From: Jim Hall 
Sent: Tuesday, 4 January 2022 11:09 AM
To: Technical discussion and questions for FreeDOS developers. 

Subject: Re: [Freedos-devel] Updating the FreeDOS website (progress)



On Mon, Jan 3, 2022 at 5:58 PM 
richardkolacz...@hotmail.com 
mailto:richardkolacz...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
Suggestion...

On the first website page, have

Download Stable build 1.2 (created -mmm-dd)
Download Development build RC5 (last updated -mmm-dd)

buttons

I personally use the date format -mmm-dd, for example 2022-Mar-02, to avoid 
confusion with having a two-digit month value.

To me, being new to FreeDOS website, it would greatly help me to identify if I 
have the latest development build by looking at the first web page.
[..]


To make sure I understand this correctly: you'd rather have that info on the 
front page, instead of navigating to the "Download" page to get the FreeDOS 1.3 
RC5 or FreeDOS 1.2? (Both RC5 and 1.2 are listed on the "Download" page.)

I'm trying to avoid adding too many buttons. But what if the front page had 
(above the "Download FreeDOS" link/button) some tags or other highlighted text 
that said "FreeDOS 1.2" and "FreeDOS 1.3 RC5"? Would that be a useful way to 
communicate the versions without adding too much text?

(Hopefully this is a short-lived problem. Once 1.3 "final" is out there, I'll 
stop advertising FreeDOS 1.2 on the website. (1.2 will still be on the Files 
Archive at Ibiblio, but the www website will just have download links for 1.3.)

Jim



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Re: [Freedos-devel] Updating the FreeDOS website (progress)

[Jim Hall]

On Mon, Jan 3, 2022 at 5:58 PM richardkolacz...@hotmail.com <
richardkolacz...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Suggestion...
>
> On the first website page, have
>
> Download Stable build 1.2 (created -mmm-dd)
> Download Development build RC5 (last updated -mmm-dd)
>
> buttons
>
> I personally use the date format -mmm-dd, for example 2022-Mar-02, to
> avoid confusion with having a two-digit month value.
>
> To me, being new to FreeDOS website, it would greatly help me to identify
> if I have the latest development build by looking at the first web page.
> [..]
>


To make sure I understand this correctly: you'd rather have that info on
the front page, instead of navigating to the "Download" page to get the
FreeDOS 1.3 RC5 or FreeDOS 1.2? (Both RC5 and 1.2 are listed on the
"Download" page.)

I'm trying to avoid adding too many buttons. But what if the front page had
(above the "Download FreeDOS" link/button) some tags or other highlighted
text that said "FreeDOS 1.2" and "FreeDOS 1.3 RC5"? Would that be a useful
way to communicate the versions without adding too much text?

(Hopefully this is a short-lived problem. Once 1.3 "final" is out there,
I'll stop advertising FreeDOS 1.2 on the website. (1.2 will still be on the
Files Archive at Ibiblio, but the www website will just have download links
for 1.3.)

Jim
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Re: [Freedos-devel] Updating the FreeDOS website (progress)

[richardkolacz...@hotmail.com]

Suggestion...

On the first website page, have

Download Stable build 1.2 (created -mmm-dd)
Download Development build RC5 (last updated -mmm-dd)

buttons

I personally use the date format -mmm-dd, for example 2022-Mar-02, to avoid 
confusion with having a two-digit month value.

To me, being new to FreeDOS website, it would greatly help me to identify if I 
have the latest development build by looking at the first web page.

Also, any package should also clearly indicate the -mmm-dd tag and maybe a 
"dummy" empty file whose filename is yyymmmdd (to satisfy 8.3 format)




From: Jim Hall 
Sent: Tuesday, 4 January 2022 6:22 AM
To: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net 
Subject: [Freedos-devel] Updating the FreeDOS website (progress)

Hi everyone

I wanted to share that I'm still working on an update to the FreeDOS
website. I shared in an email to the list some time ago the issues
with the current website, but the short version is certain parts of
www.freedos.org are hard to navigate, and it's not very 
easy for folks
who are new to FreeDOS to figure out how to use it and what they can
run on FreeDOS. So I want the updated version to address those issues.

More generally I'm also trying to reduce the amount of text and/or the
density of text on the website. A lot of the web pages are very
text-heavy.

I'm working on an updated version of the website. If you'd like to see
it, the work in progress is at http://test.freedos.org/ or
https://test.freedos.org/

(BTW, you can also visit the main website as either
http://www.freedos.org/ or https://www.freedos.org/)

A few notes about this test site:

(1) This is a *test* website. It is not the final version. Despite the
"test" nature of the new site, it's at least in a state that you can
see how the site will be put together. I welcome comments and
suggestions.

(2) Most of the test site uses "lorem ipsum" text. This is dummy text
that's just meant to be a placeholder. I find it's very useful to use
"lorem ipsum" to figure out how to arrange text (using paragraphs, or
lists, or info boxes, etc) without worrying about the exact text to
use.

(3) The test site uses placeholder images. I just used a bunch of
screenshots that I already had. Some of them are *probably* the images
I'll use, but they are the wrong size. The images will get changed.

(4) Ignore the pink background color. I'm using the pink to help me
see where certain boxes will show up. The pink will later change to
white or some other color.


I'm continuing to work on the new website. My goal is to have things
finished by the end of January.

Jim


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Re: [Freedos-devel] dir /od

[Jim Hall]

On Mon, Jan 3, 2022 at 2:57 PM Robert Riebisch  wrote:
>[..]
> For me (!) it doesn't matter, if it's on GitLab or GitHub (or even
> Codeberg.org), as long as I know, how to find it. My primary source for
> such information would be the freedos.org site.
>


I just checked the FreeDOS website and http://www.freedos.org/source/
already had a link to https://github.com/FDOS/kernel which is the
correct location for the kernel. So I think the FreeDOS website was
already correct, unless there's a different page you've found that has
something different?


Jim


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Re: [Freedos-devel] Re: mkey keyboard

[Wilhelm Spiegl]

 
 there are three different keyboard drivers that all work in FDOS. keyb supports tr and tr440 (assume this is tr2), mkeyb does not support turkish at all and xkeyb supports tr only. it is your choice which of the three keyboard you want to use in your environment. --Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit mail.com Mail gesendet.Am 03.01.22, 20:26 schrieb Emir SARI via Freedos-devel :

  Hello,
   
   If I understand this right, this is about moving the Turkish layouts from KEYB2 to the main driver, right? Would this cause any compatibility issues with other programs?
   
   Anyway, I will be happy to provide any assistance needed whilst testing the F layout.
   
   Best,
   Emir
   
   Отправлено с iPhone
   
   > 3 янв. 2022 г., в 19:26, thraex  написал(а):
   > 
   > 
   > 
   > On 3.01.2022 17:18, tom ehlert wrote:
   > 
   > Hi,
   >>> But I still think about adding turkish layouts in mkeyb.
   >> why? obviously thraex has had a turkish keyboard driver
   >> for the last 30 years. what is the problem ou are trying to solve?
   >> 
   >> and thraex hasn't complained himself, so it's not up to you to
   >> complain.
   > 
   > I must say I mainly use the French AZERTY keyboard when it comes to
   > typing in English and French, and the Turkish Q layout when typing in
   > Turkish. I'm much faster with AZERTY, so I seldom use the Turkish Q
   > layout (with FreeDOS, only for testing and translating purposes).
   > 
   >>> It would make much things easier.
   >> what kind of things exactly?
   >> 
   >> a) there are 2 kinds of turkish keyboards. which one do you mean?
   > 
   > There's the Q layout, derived from the American QWERTY used by the huge
   > majority of Turkish people, and the F layout optimized for typing
   > efficiently and quickly. I think he means both, but I'll let him answer.
   > 
   >> b) I wouldn't even qualify to verify if the keyboard driver works
   >> correct.
   >> 
   >> you will have to find a turkish speaking/understanding person with at
   >> least moderate technical skills to do this.
   > 
   > I think Emir on this list uses the F layout, I use the Q one. There's
   > Ercan, the author or Minibox and FDTUI too, I don't know which one he
   > prefers. They certainly both are way more skilled than me, but maybe
   > with some hand holding I could see if the drivers work correctly for the
   > Q layout. Hopefully it will be feasible to find people to test the
   > drivers for both layouts on this list.
   > 
   >> after thinking about this, this project doesn't interest me; however I
   >> would help to implement this.
   > 
   > Thank you!
   > 
   > 
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Re: [Freedos-devel] dir /od

[Robert Riebisch]

Hi Jim,

> I think we should merge the kernel back into the new FreeDOS GitLab
> repo, now that we have one. But that's a separate discussion I'll
> start with Perdition.

For me (!) it doesn't matter, if it's on GitLab or GitHub (or even
Codeberg.org), as long as I know, how to find it. My primary source for
such information would be the freedos.org site.

Cheers,
Robert
-- 
  +++ BTTR Software +++
 Home page: https://www.bttr-software.de/
DOS ain't dead: https://www.bttr-software.de/forum/


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Re: [Freedos-devel] dir /od

[Jerome Shidel]

Hi,

> On Jan 3, 2022, at 1:35 PM, Jim Hall  wrote:
> [..]
> That's a cynical and disingenuous statement. Development happens all
> over, and some folks prefer using different tools. Perdition set up
> his kernel repo in GitHub because that was his tool. And he did that
> before we set up the GitLab repo for FreeDOS (gitlab.com/freedos) so
> the kernel isn't in there.
> 
> I think we should merge the kernel back into the new FreeDOS GitLab
> repo, now that we have one. But that's a separate discussion I'll
> start with Perdition.

I’ve had similar thoughts regarding FD-NLS. I’ve thought about moving it over 
to the GitLab Repo.
But, It’s been fairly active with contributions and I’d need to talk the 
Translators into moving over. 

Same goes for the Installers (FDI & FDI-x86). They should probably be moved as 
well. 

Perhaps, post 1.3-Final.

At present, the versions in GitLab are mirrors of the Github ones and kept up 
to date automatically. 

Jerome

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Re: [Freedos-devel] Installer NLS Questions

[Emir SARI via Freedos-devel]

Hello Jerome,

> 2 янв. 2022 г., в 23:32, Jerome Shidel  написал(а):
> 
> Hi Emir,
> 
> Since I haven’t got around to making a doc for creating the V8F font files, 
> here is the easiest way…

> Anyhow, it’s not hard to do. :-)
> 
> Let me know if you run into any problems or have any questions.

I will be able to test and report back in a few days.

Thank you for the detailed instructions.

Best,
Emir 


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Re: [Freedos-devel] mkey keyboard

[Emir SARI via Freedos-devel]

Hello,

If I understand this right, this is about moving the Turkish layouts from KEYB2 
to the main driver, right? Would this cause any compatibility issues with other 
programs?

Anyway, I will be happy to provide any assistance needed whilst testing the F 
layout.

Best,
Emir

Отправлено с iPhone

> 3 янв. 2022 г., в 19:26, thraex  написал(а):
> 
> 
> 
> On 3.01.2022 17:18, tom ehlert wrote:
> 
> Hi,
>>> But I still think about adding turkish layouts in mkeyb.
>> why? obviously thraex has had a turkish keyboard driver
>> for the last 30 years. what is the problem ou are trying to solve?
>> 
>> and thraex hasn't complained himself, so it's not up to you to
>> complain.
> 
> I must say I mainly use the French AZERTY keyboard when it comes to
> typing in English and French, and the Turkish Q layout when typing in
> Turkish. I'm much faster with AZERTY, so I seldom use the Turkish Q
> layout (with FreeDOS, only for testing and translating purposes).
> 
>>> It would make much things easier.
>> what kind of things exactly?
>> 
>> a) there are 2 kinds of turkish keyboards. which one do you mean?
> 
> There's the Q layout, derived from the American QWERTY used by the huge
> majority of Turkish people, and the F layout optimized for typing
> efficiently and quickly. I think he means both, but I'll let him answer.
> 
>> b) I wouldn't even qualify to verify if the keyboard driver works
>> correct.
>> 
>> you will have to find a turkish speaking/understanding person with at
>> least moderate technical skills to do this.
> 
> I think Emir on this list uses the F layout, I use the Q one. There's
> Ercan, the author or Minibox and FDTUI too, I don't know which one he
> prefers. They certainly both are way more skilled than me, but maybe
> with some hand holding I could see if the drivers work correctly for the
> Q layout. Hopefully it will be feasible to find people to test the
> drivers for both layouts on this list.
> 
>> after thinking about this, this project doesn't interest me; however I
>> would help to implement this.
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> 
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[Freedos-devel] Updating the FreeDOS website (progress)

[Jim Hall]

Hi everyone

I wanted to share that I'm still working on an update to the FreeDOS
website. I shared in an email to the list some time ago the issues
with the current website, but the short version is certain parts of
www.freedos.org are hard to navigate, and it's not very easy for folks
who are new to FreeDOS to figure out how to use it and what they can
run on FreeDOS. So I want the updated version to address those issues.

More generally I'm also trying to reduce the amount of text and/or the
density of text on the website. A lot of the web pages are very
text-heavy.

I'm working on an updated version of the website. If you'd like to see
it, the work in progress is at http://test.freedos.org/ or
https://test.freedos.org/

(BTW, you can also visit the main website as either
http://www.freedos.org/ or https://www.freedos.org/)

A few notes about this test site:

(1) This is a *test* website. It is not the final version. Despite the
"test" nature of the new site, it's at least in a state that you can
see how the site will be put together. I welcome comments and
suggestions.

(2) Most of the test site uses "lorem ipsum" text. This is dummy text
that's just meant to be a placeholder. I find it's very useful to use
"lorem ipsum" to figure out how to arrange text (using paragraphs, or
lists, or info boxes, etc) without worrying about the exact text to
use.

(3) The test site uses placeholder images. I just used a bunch of
screenshots that I already had. Some of them are *probably* the images
I'll use, but they are the wrong size. The images will get changed.

(4) Ignore the pink background color. I'm using the pink to help me
see where certain boxes will show up. The pink will later change to
white or some other color.


I'm continuing to work on the new website. My goal is to have things
finished by the end of January.

Jim


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Re: [Freedos-devel] dir /od

[Jim Hall]

On Sun, Jan 2, 2022 at 3:13 PM tom ehlert  wrote:
>
>
> >> How (also when) will this patch (and other patches) make it into the
> >> official freecom repo?
>
> I have no idea about if, where and when.
>
> Maybe ask the project coordinator?
>

We'll get it in there.


> >> The kernel is *the* core component of an OS. Therefore, it should be
> >> made clear, where official development takes place.
>
> > https://github.com/PerditionC/fdkernel clearly says:
> > "!!! This fork is no longer the primary fork -- Please post PRs and
> > issues to https://github.com/FDOS/kernel !!!"
>
> > So, https://gitlab.com/FreeDOS/base/kernel#still-actively-developed
> > should be updated accordingly.
>
> +1
>
> for some reason Perdition is in charge

That's a cynical and disingenuous statement. Development happens all
over, and some folks prefer using different tools. Perdition set up
his kernel repo in GitHub because that was his tool. And he did that
before we set up the GitLab repo for FreeDOS (gitlab.com/freedos) so
the kernel isn't in there.

I think we should merge the kernel back into the new FreeDOS GitLab
repo, now that we have one. But that's a separate discussion I'll
start with Perdition.


Jim


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Re: [Freedos-devel] mkey keyboard

[thraex]

On 3.01.2022 17:18, tom ehlert wrote:

Hi,
>> But I still think about adding turkish layouts in mkeyb.
> why? obviously thraex has had a turkish keyboard driver
> for the last 30 years. what is the problem ou are trying to solve?
> 
> and thraex hasn't complained himself, so it's not up to you to
> complain.

I must say I mainly use the French AZERTY keyboard when it comes to
typing in English and French, and the Turkish Q layout when typing in
Turkish. I'm much faster with AZERTY, so I seldom use the Turkish Q
layout (with FreeDOS, only for testing and translating purposes).

>>  It would make much things easier.
> what kind of things exactly?
> 
> a) there are 2 kinds of turkish keyboards. which one do you mean?

There's the Q layout, derived from the American QWERTY used by the huge
majority of Turkish people, and the F layout optimized for typing
efficiently and quickly. I think he means both, but I'll let him answer.

> b) I wouldn't even qualify to verify if the keyboard driver works
> correct.
> 
> you will have to find a turkish speaking/understanding person with at
> least moderate technical skills to do this.

I think Emir on this list uses the F layout, I use the Q one. There's
Ercan, the author or Minibox and FDTUI too, I don't know which one he
prefers. They certainly both are way more skilled than me, but maybe
with some hand holding I could see if the drivers work correctly for the
Q layout. Hopefully it will be feasible to find people to test the
drivers for both layouts on this list.

> after thinking about this, this project doesn't interest me; however I
> would help to implement this.

Thank you!


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Re: [Freedos-devel] Re: mkey keyboard

[Wilhelm Spiegl]

 
 in doubt both tr versions. I will talk with thraex and others about this theme.Why I?vecho is tricky, so I had to run tests with turkish files and with turkish keyboard layouts. e.g. they use two different i characters, i found only one on my keyboard, but this is only one problem. i used mkeyb for german and keyb for turkish. at the end i was absolutely confused till I found out what was the reason for something like thisisalongtextwithoutspacebetween and this was written correct in the file. today i found the same problem in spanish text. but now i know that only two apostrophes were missing, this makes it easy. nevertheless...coordinating different languages is not so simple as you may think.--Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit mail.com Mail gesendet.Am 03.01.22, 15:35 schrieb tom ehlert :

   > But I still think about adding turkish layouts in mkeyb.
   why? obviously thraex has had a turkish keyboard driver
   for the last 30 years. what is the problem ou are trying to solve?
   
   and thraex hasn't complained himself, so it's not up to you to
   complain.
   
   > It would make much things easier.
   what kind of things exactly?
   
   a) there are 2 kinds of turkish keyboards. which one do you mean?
   
   b) I wouldn't even qualify to verify if the keyboard driver works
   correct.
   
   you will have to find a turkish speaking/understanding person with at
   least moderate technical skills to do this.
   
   > Which amount do you think I should pay for
   > a charity community, Tom?
   after thinking about this, this project doesn't interest me; however I
   would help to implement this. most of the available keyboards were NOT
   done by me, or at least corrected by others.
   
   Tom
   
   
   > I would pay up to 300 Euro for this, of
   > course you will get a copy of my bank account (account values
   > deleted, only the money I will pay will be shown). 
   > If you want, you can send me the response to my mail address directly.
   > 
   > Willi 
   > 
   > 
   > Sent: Friday, December 31, 2021 at 11:36 PM
   > From: "Ralf Quint" 
   > To: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
   > Subject: Re: [Freedos-devel] mkey keyboard 
   > On 12/31/2021 9:19 AM, Wilhelm Spiegl wrote: 
   > mkeyb supports a lot of keyboard layouts e.g. "gr" for german etc.
   > FreeDOS uses the set lang= xy variable for many country related things.
   > but the gr etc. in mkeyb xy differ from this variable that is used for nls, help etc.
   
   > Would it be possible to change the country characters in mkeyb
   > e.g. german from "gr" to "de" and so on so that it is possible to
   > say "mkeyb %lang%" to get the correct keyboard layout in FD without big problems?
   > This would be a great help for the users and for Jerome.
   > 
   > Well, no,not really.
   > 
   > As Tom already mentioned, those keyboard layout codes have always
   > been that way, since the first version of DOS that had a KEYB
   > "driver". And for compatibility reasons, this should be the same.
   
   > The reason for GR instead of DE is that all those abbreviations
   > are derived from the English language, as in "GeRmany", not
   > "DEutschland". Hasn't been a problem though either, as there was, at
   > least not officially AFAIK, a GReek KEYB option. For the same reason
   > it is SP for SPain (not ESpana), HU for Hungary (not Magyar), though
   > they chose SU for SUomi instead of FI for Finland (not sure if that
   > was a stab against the then still existing Soviet Union, LOL).
   > 
   > You also need to understand that the keyboard layout codes are NOT
   > identical with the "language" being used (for example in
   > translations), as for example both US and UK are for different
   > keyboard layouts used in the US of A and the United Kingdom, even
   > though they both are supposed to be English Speaking countries. Same
   > goes for FR and CF, which defines the keyboard layout for FRance and
   > French Canada respectively, though the on screen language in both
   > cases is French. Or PO and BT for POrtugal and BRazil, which both use (some form of) Portuguese.
   > 
   > I don't have an easy way to test this right now in any Windows
   > version, but I am pretty sure that a similar distinction exists
   > there as well, though those settings are there made within a GUI
   > tool not by using command line parameters line in DOS...
   > 
   > Ralf
   > 
   > 
   > 
   > 
   
   > 
   > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
   > www.avast.com
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   Mit freundlichen Grüßen / with kind regards
   Tom Ehlert
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Re: [Freedos-devel] mkey keyboard

[tom ehlert]

> But I still think about adding turkish layouts in mkeyb.
why? obviously thraex has had a turkish keyboard driver
for the last 30 years. what is the problem ou are trying to solve?

and thraex hasn't complained himself, so it's not up to you to
complain.

>  It would make much things easier.
what kind of things exactly?

a) there are 2 kinds of turkish keyboards. which one do you mean?

b) I wouldn't even qualify to verify if the keyboard driver works
correct.

you will have to find a turkish speaking/understanding person with at
least moderate technical skills to do this.

> Which amount do you think I should pay for
> a charity community, Tom?
after thinking about this, this project doesn't interest me; however I
would help to implement this. most of the available keyboards were NOT
done by me, or at least corrected by others.

Tom


> I would pay up to 300 Euro for this, of
> course you will get a copy of my bank account (account values
> deleted, only the money I will pay will be shown).  
> If you want, you can send me the response to my mail address directly.
>
> Willi  
>   
>   
> Sent: Friday, December 31, 2021 at 11:36 PM
> From: "Ralf Quint" 
> To: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Freedos-devel] mkey keyboard  
> On 12/31/2021 9:19 AM, Wilhelm Spiegl wrote:  
> mkeyb supports a lot of keyboard layouts e.g. "gr" for german etc.
>  FreeDOS uses the set lang= xy variable for many country related things.
>  but the gr etc. in mkeyb xy differ from this variable that is used for nls, 
> help etc.

>  Would it be possible to change the country characters in mkeyb
> e.g. german from "gr" to "de" and so on so that it is possible to
> say "mkeyb %lang%" to get the correct keyboard layout in FD without big 
> problems?
>  This would be a great help for the users and for Jerome.
>   
> Well, no,not really.
>   
> As Tom already mentioned, those keyboard layout codes have always
> been that way, since the first version of DOS that had a KEYB
> "driver". And for compatibility reasons, this should be the same.

>  The reason for GR instead of DE is that all those abbreviations
> are derived from the English language, as in "GeRmany", not
> "DEutschland". Hasn't been a problem though either, as there was, at
> least not officially AFAIK, a GReek KEYB option. For the same reason
> it is SP for SPain (not ESpana), HU for Hungary (not Magyar), though
> they chose SU for SUomi  instead of FI for Finland (not sure if that
> was a stab against the then still existing Soviet Union, LOL).
>   
> You also need to understand that the keyboard layout codes are NOT
> identical with the "language" being used (for example in
> translations), as for example both US and UK are for different
> keyboard layouts used in the US of A and the United Kingdom, even
> though they both are supposed to be English Speaking countries. Same
> goes for FR and CF, which defines the keyboard layout for FRance and
> French Canada respectively, though the on screen language in both
> cases is French. Or PO and BT for POrtugal and BRazil, which both use (some 
> form of) Portuguese.
>   
> I don't have an easy way to test this right now in any Windows
> version, but I am pretty sure that a similar distinction exists
> there as well, though those settings are there made within a GUI
> tool not by using command line parameters line in DOS...
>   
> Ralf
>   
>  
>   
>   

>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com
> 
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Mit freundlichen Grüßen / with kind regards
Tom Ehlert
+49-15151898538



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Re: [Freedos-devel] mkey keyboard

[Wilhelm Spiegl]

Hi Ralf,

you are right. I checked it, all three keyboard layouts have the same basic system, so even if it would work it would require to modify all three keyboard programs.

That is nonse. I admit this hereby officially. Sorry Tom, I have to excuse myself!

 

Nevertheless it is weird that two different versions are used in FD. But life is life.

 

But I still think about adding turkish layouts in mkeyb. It would make much things easier. Which amount do you think I should pay for a charity community, Tom? I would pay up to 300 Euro for this, of course you will get a copy of my bank account (account values deleted, only the money I will pay will be shown).

If you want, you can send me the response to my mail address directly.

 

Willi

 
 

Sent: Friday, December 31, 2021 at 11:36 PM
From: "Ralf Quint" 
To: freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Freedos-devel] mkey keyboard


On 12/31/2021 9:19 AM, Wilhelm Spiegl wrote:


mkeyb supports a lot of keyboard layouts e.g. "gr" for german etc.
FreeDOS uses the set lang= xy variable for many country related things.
but the gr etc. in mkeyb xy differ from this variable that is used for nls, help etc.

Would it be possible to change the country characters in mkeyb e.g. german from "gr" to "de" and so on so that it is possible to say "mkeyb %lang%" to get the correct keyboard layout in FD without big problems?
This would be a great help for the users and for Jerome.


Well, no,not really.

As Tom already mentioned, those keyboard layout codes have always been that way, since the first version of DOS that had a KEYB "driver". And for compatibility reasons, this should be the same.

The reason for GR instead of DE is that all those abbreviations are derived from the English language, as in "GeRmany", not "DEutschland". Hasn't been a problem though either, as there was, at least not officially AFAIK, a GReek KEYB option. For the same reason it is SP for SPain (not ESpana), HU for Hungary (not Magyar), though they chose SU for SUomi  instead of FI for Finland (not sure if that was a stab against the then still existing Soviet Union, LOL).

You also need to understand that the keyboard layout codes are NOT identical with the "language" being used (for example in translations), as for example both US and UK are for different keyboard layouts used in the US of A and the United Kingdom, even though they both are supposed to be English Speaking countries. Same goes for FR and CF, which defines the keyboard layout for FRance and French Canada respectively, though the on screen language in both cases is French. Or PO and BT for POrtugal and BRazil, which both use (some form of) Portuguese.

I don't have an easy way to test this right now in any Windows version, but I am pretty sure that a similar distinction exists there as well, though those settings are there made within a GUI tool not by using command line parameters line in DOS...

Ralf

 

 


	
		
			 
			
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Re: [Freedos-devel] dir /od

[Jerome Shidel]

If you want to put stuff into or take stuff out of a Virtual Machine hard 
drive, you should stick with a Flat Fixed Size VMDK. That is one that is not 
split into pieces and is pre-allocated to the entire size. You end up with two 
files for the Virtual Machines hard drive. One is a descriptor/configuration 
file. The other file is a normal disk image even if it is using a different 
file extension. That image can be burned to USB sticks or mounted easily on 
Linux, Unix, Mac and related systems. There are programs for Windows that can 
also mount standard image files. Other formats are just that… other formats. 
Good luck trying to mount those to copy stuff around. 

The USB stick images for the FreeDOS release are created in a reverse process. 
The RBE creates an image file. Mounts it and puts all the stuff onto it. Then 
the RBE programmatically generates the descriptor/config file for that image. 
This provides a VMDK that can be mounted by many Virtual machine platforms. 

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Re: [Freedos-devel] dir /od

[tom ehlert]

>> however I'm not able to extract files out of cut.vhd. is it a raw image?

> It's usually a Windows VirtualPC or Hyper-V hard disk file: *V*irtual
> *H*ard *D*isk.

thank you very much;)


> Attach it to an existing VM with an OS that can read multiple disk
> formats -- i.e. Linux.

I asked because VirtualBox and WinImage both failed to open it.
in the end Windows diskmgmnt.bsc was able to mount it as virtual disk,
and I got the files.

Tom



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Re: [Freedos-devel] dir /od

[Wilhelm Spiegl]

If you run Windows install imdisk. This supports a lot of virtual machines, even the diskette versions used by FD and is simple to handle via context menu (Explorer, right mouse click, mount / unmount) - and in some cases it also supports r/w (read-write). Of course vhd is supported by Windows versions (I think except home edition) itself.

 

https://sourceforge.net/projects/imdisk-toolkit/

 

Willi

 
 

Sent: Monday, January 03, 2022 at 1:09 PM
From: "Liam Proven" 
To: "Technical discussion and questions for FreeDOS developers." 
Subject: Re: [Freedos-devel] dir /od

On Sun, 2 Jan 2022 at 10:58, tom ehlert  wrote:

> however I'm not able to extract files out of cut.vhd. is it a raw image?

It's usually a Windows VirtualPC or Hyper-V hard disk file: *V*irtual
*H*ard *D*isk.

Attach it to an existing VM with an OS that can read multiple disk
formats -- i.e. Linux.

--
Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven
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Re: [Freedos-devel] dir /od

[Liam Proven]

On Sun, 2 Jan 2022 at 10:58, tom ehlert  wrote:

> however I'm not able to extract files out of cut.vhd. is it a raw image?

It's usually a Windows VirtualPC or Hyper-V hard disk file: *V*irtual
*H*ard *D*isk.

Attach it to an existing VM with an OS that can read multiple disk
formats -- i.e. Linux.

-- 
Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com
Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven
UK: (+44) 7939-087884 ~ Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053


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