Re: [Freedos-user] collision between freedos emm386 and memdisk
Hi all, Eric Auer wrote: If HIMEMX is FreeDOS HIMEM plus some bugfixes by Japheth: Yes. OTHERWISE I recommend to use JEMM386 (also on www.japheth.de) which is an optimized and improved version of FreeDOS emm386. I also have doubts about this. We (many people in this list) espent months testing himem and emm386 from Michael Devore. Are those two just a bugfix from *that* well tested version or is it descendent from somewhere else? Alain - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] collision between freedos emm386 and memdisk
Hi Alain, If HIMEMX is FreeDOS HIMEM plus some bugfixes by Japheth: Yes. OTHERWISE I recommend to use JEMM386 (also on www.japheth.de) which is an optimized and improved version of FreeDOS emm386. We (many people in this list) espent months testing himem and emm386 from Michael Devore. Are those two just a bugfix from *that* well tested version or is it descendent from somewhere else? Japheth did indeed improve himem yet more. He also modified defaults, so it is more Win9x style than MS DOS style now - no problem if you read the docs to know which options you want for your old games ;-). You are right that the public relations are not as good as with Michael Devore. Japheth keeps updating things, and his readme files will tell you about the changes, but I cannot find an archive of old versions (if you want to test which version introduced a problem) and there are usually no mails to the freedos mailing lists when an update is released, so I can only say try if an update today helps if you have any problem. I cannot say this was fixed at time X or anything. His programming is certainly nice :-). Another problem is that Japheth likes jemmex much better than the himem plus jemm386 combination, I believe. Good point is that it is one combined package (saves some overhead and is always compat- ible to itself), bad point is that you cannot test the two parts separately and cannot use classic configuration style. Users who are used to MS DOS will have to learn more for jemmex than for a classic himem plus jemm386 combination. Maybe a small extra problem with jemmex: You cannot ask people to try what happens if they keep himem but skip emm386 (for debugging purposes), as using himem and using jemmex will mean that you use two completely separate implementations of what himem does. No big problem - as long as any good himem stays available :-). I myself sometimes load jemm386 and sometimes do not, but I almost always load himem :-). Eric - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] collision between freedos emm386 and memdisk
Alain M. schreef: We (many people in this list) espent months testing himem and emm386 from Michael Devore. Are those two just a bugfix from *that* well tested version or is it descendent from somewhere else? Based on EMM386 from FreeDOS indeed. Japheth is just adding different stuff than Michael and Tom were. See http://www.japheth.de/Jemm/README.TXT Few people are actually skilled enough programmers to bugfix/enhance lowlevel drivers it seems :) Also you might have seen Tom\s announcement long ago that EMM386 did what he desired from it, at which point Michael Devore stepped in and extended the functionality to that of a MS EMM386. It seems Japheth is slowly converting it to something like QEMM386, which is quite welcome (fastboot, single driver, lower memory print). Alain Bernd - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] collision between freedos emm386 and memdisk
We (many people in this list) espent months testing himem and emm386 from Michael Devore. Are those two just a bugfix from *that* well tested version or is it descendent from somewhere else? As for HimemX: there are 12 bugfixes and some optimizations, all described in the readme.txt. As for Jemm: some parts are rewritten from scratch, some are heavily modified. It's quite different from FD Emm386 now. Btw, in the name of how many people are you speaking exactly? And what do you regard as well tested. Because, as for me, I seriously doubt that a program is well tested just because some dozens (or some hundreds? I have no idea how big the FD user base is.) people boot FD with Himem, running their favorite handfull of apps occationally and then switch back to windows/linux. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] collision between freedos emm386 and memdisk
Hi Eric, I am still in doubt: did he start from Michael's last and well tested version or is it possible that it has bugs already fixed in Michael's version? Alain Eric Auer escreveu: Hi Alain, If HIMEMX is FreeDOS HIMEM plus some bugfixes by Japheth: Yes. OTHERWISE I recommend to use JEMM386 (also on www.japheth.de) which is an optimized and improved version of FreeDOS emm386. We (many people in this list) espent months testing himem and emm386 from Michael Devore. Are those two just a bugfix from *that* well tested version or is it descendent from somewhere else? Japheth did indeed improve himem yet more. He also modified defaults, so it is more Win9x style than MS DOS style now - no problem if you read the docs to know which options you want for your old games ;-). You are right that the public relations are not as good as with Michael Devore. Japheth keeps updating things, and his readme files will tell you about the changes, but I cannot find an archive of old versions (if you want to test which version introduced a problem) and there are usually no mails to the freedos mailing lists when an update is released, so I can only say try if an update today helps if you have any problem. I cannot say this was fixed at time X or anything. His programming is certainly nice :-). Another problem is that Japheth likes jemmex much better than the himem plus jemm386 combination, I believe. Good point is that it is one combined package (saves some overhead and is always compat- ible to itself), bad point is that you cannot test the two parts separately and cannot use classic configuration style. Users who are used to MS DOS will have to learn more for jemmex than for a classic himem plus jemm386 combination. Maybe a small extra problem with jemmex: You cannot ask people to try what happens if they keep himem but skip emm386 (for debugging purposes), as using himem and using jemmex will mean that you use two completely separate implementations of what himem does. No big problem - as long as any good himem stays available :-). I myself sometimes load jemm386 and sometimes do not, but I almost always load himem :-). Eric - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] collision between freedos emm386 and memdisk
Hi Japheth, Japheth escreveu: Btw, in the name of how many people are you speaking exactly? And what do you regard as well tested. Because, as for me, I seriously doubt that a program is well tested just because some dozens (or some hundreds? I have no idea how big the FD user base is.) people boot FD with Himem, running their favorite handfull of apps occationally and then switch back to windows/linux. Lots of tests were done by lots of people here in the list. I understand your point that lots of people can mean nothing... but those test were of many programs running in many platforms. Just to name one: there was one bug-for-bug fix that enabled BC31 to work, it was something about a register being 00h on exist of a certain call. The bug was by Borland, but the result is that now we can use one more impotant program that didn't work ;-) I am not woried about parts that you fixed or rewrote, on the contrary, you have a reputaion of very good code quality. What I am woried is that some compatibility fixes could get lost. I am planning to make a FreeDOS distro as of my own ideas. I personaly never had problems with emm386 since Michael's last version but I would like to know which is more appropriate for a general distribution. Thanks for the feedback, Alain - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] collision between freedos emm386 and memdisk
We (many people in this list) espent months testing himem and emm386 from Michael Devore. Are those two just a bugfix from *that* well tested version or is it descendent from somewhere else? As for HimemX: there are 12 bugfixes and some optimizations, all described in the readme.txt. After reading the HimemX Readme, a few comments: - FDHimem opens an interrupt window in v86-mode only. HimemX opens an interrupt window in both v86- and real-mode. that was probably the point where Jack started his own civil war ;) - in FDHimem the routine which tests whether A20 is enabled is more complicated than necessary. I looks now like it looked ~5 years back. The 'more complicated then necessary' came in after some discussion about some (hypotetical) problems with 386, broken caches, etc. I don't mind - if extended memory is = 64 MB, the size returned by XMS V2 function is 65535 kB in HimemX, FDHimem returns 64448 kB. AFAIR, the 64448 number was intentional - some crazy app/game required this every thing else (just reading the ReadME !!) looks ok As for Jemm: some parts are rewritten from scratch, some are heavily modified. It's quite different from FD Emm386 now. Btw, in the name of how many people are you speaking exactly? LOTS. It took lots of iterations to make EMM386 compatible with any existing DOS extender in lots of crazy/brain damaged apps/games. And what do you regard as well tested. it was developed according to the specs, then a couple of bugs fixed. after that, a ton of crazy software still didn't run as it expected specific limits (treating 65535 kB as signed integer etc.) AFAIK, Michael fixed all these issues. Because, as for me, I seriously doubt that a program is well tested just because some dozens (or some hundreds? I have no idea how big the FD user base is.) people boot FD with Himem, running their favorite handfull of apps occationally and then switch back to windows/linux. it was more ~ hundred of bug reports 'App XYZ doesn't work' including USBASPI (which accesses HW memory at 3GB) BTW: did anyone ever try to run Intel NDIS network drivers with EMM386/JEMM ? Tom - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] collision between freedos emm386 and memdisk
Hi, Hi Japheth, Japheth escreveu: Btw, in the name of how many people are you speaking exactly? And what do you regard as well tested. Because, as for me, I seriously doubt that a program is well tested just because some dozens (or some hundreds? I have no idea how big the FD user base is.) people boot FD with Himem, running their favorite handfull of apps occationally and then switch back to windows/linux. Lots of tests were done by lots of people here in the list. I understand your point that lots of people can mean nothing... but those test were of many programs running in many platforms. Just to name one: there was one bug-for-bug fix that enabled BC31 to work, it was something about a register being 00h on exist of a certain call. The bug was by Borland, but the result is that now we can use one more impotant program that didn't work ;-) AFAIR this was a DPMI issue, using int 31h, ax=0300h with register CX != ZERO because the FD kernel returned CX 0 in a DOS version call and MS-DOS returned cx == 0. This issue is unrelated to Himem or Emm386. You should provide a better example. :) I am not woried about parts that you fixed or rewrote, on the contrary, you have a reputaion of very good code quality. What I am woried is that some compatibility fixes could get lost. I am planning to make a FreeDOS distro as of my own ideas. I personaly never had problems with emm386 since Michael's last version but I would like to know which is more appropriate for a general distribution. All I have to say is said already in the readme/history files. If you have worries, and FD Emm386 works fine for you, then there is no reason to care about Jemm. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] collision between freedos emm386 and memdisk
- FDHimem opens an interrupt window in v86-mode only. HimemX opens an interrupt window in both v86- and real-mode. that was probably the point where Jack started his own civil war ;) At least it WAS a bug, because this issue is mentioned in the XMS docs. - in FDHimem the routine which tests whether A20 is enabled is more complicated than necessary. I looks now like it looked ~5 years back. That's how things are going ... :) The 'more complicated then necessary' came in after some discussion about some (hypotetical) problems with 386, broken caches, etc. I don't mind - if extended memory is = 64 MB, the size returned by XMS V2 function is 65535 kB in HimemX, FDHimem returns 64448 kB. AFAIR, the 64448 number was intentional - some crazy app/game required this Yes. I didn't claim this to be a bug in FD Himem, I just changed it to the value returned by MS Himem. every thing else (just reading the ReadME !!) looks ok Thanks a lot! Btw, in the name of how many people are you speaking exactly? LOTS. It took lots of iterations to make EMM386 compatible with any existing DOS extender in lots of crazy/brain damaged apps/games. And what do you regard as well tested. it was developed according to the specs, then a couple of bugs fixed. after that, a ton of crazy software still didn't run as it expected specific limits (treating 65535 kB as signed integer etc.) AFAIK, Michael fixed all these issues. There are still some (dozens) left in FD Emm386 ... - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] collision between freedos emm386 and memdisk
I am not woried at all. I just wonder which should be used in a wider distribution... According to this current discussion, it looks like JEMM should ;-) I have an idea. You could have a compatible configuration and a full feature configuration. Second one should load latest JEMMEX and maybe one of the protected mode drivers like XCDROM32 which is distributed with JEMM(EX). I am using it (or used it, because my hard disk crashed and I have to reinstall pure DOS. As I want a special DOS, I have to self-install most of programs and drivers without install-program of FreeDOS 1.0 ;-) and I am glad with it. Bye Flo -- Club Dr-DOS Wiki http//www.drdos.org private page http://www.flox.at.tf - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] collision between emm386 and memdisk
Thanks Eric I think I will make some menu to let the user decide which manager have to be loaded, but as I see, there isn't good menu system in FreeDOS. I mean, there is only option to have one level in menu. I need more than one (for memory managers, some USB drivers, language etc).. Is there any way to have more menu levels? Probably because you accessed fewer sectors near the end then If I undestand correctly: I will get the same error if I run any other programme which is placed near the end of the floppy image?? memdisk is not in the floppy Another way might be to tell MEMDISK to simulate a harddisk instead of a floppy. Note that that will modify the drive numbering for DOS. Yes, I've tried. You're right with drive number. I will stay with FAT12 and floppy. But does FAT12 make all filenames UPPERCASE? Of course the question is: Why do you need an image above 2.88 MB at all? Well, I need to have all my DOS programs, and it's about 8 MB sorry for my english :) m4mach - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] fdapm update and a new screen saver
Hi again, I updated FDAPM again. Changed since 15jul: IDLEDPMS is now smaller in RAM ( 1/2 kb) and avoids double-loading. If you try to load it twice, you get a message. There is also a tiny change in VBE/PM handling. Of course there are also the old news from 15jul: Fixed the stats used for CPU was idle for ... of the time display and added a new tool IDLEDPMS, which is a small (1 kb file) but effective DPMS screen saver. The screen saver detects Windows3 and games with own keyboard IRQ handler to avoid saving at the wrong time. Enjoy :-). Eric www.coli.uni-saarland.de/~eric/stuff/soft/fdapm-2007jul17.zip PS: You cannot change the timeout or unload idledpms after you load it, it is too simple for that :-). PPS: If VBE/PM is supported, only VBE/PM is accessed. Otherwise, VGA BIOS function int 10.12/bl=36 is used if VGA, and registers 3c4/5.1 and d0 or 0/20 and 3d4/5.17 (or 3b4/5.17) MSB are used. EGA install check is int 10.12/bl=10, VGA check is int 10.1a00. VBE/PM interface is int 10.4f10/bl=0 (check) or 1 (set mode bh). - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] collision between emm386 and memdisk
hi If I undestand correctly: I will get the same error if I run any other programme which is placed near the end of the floppy image?? memdisk is not in the floppy I understood that you use memdisk to simulate a floppy in ram. And that some himem / emm386 / japheth-equivalents had a problem if the memdisk used more ram. My idea was that the problem only triggers if you actually use ram of memdisk which somehow over- laps with what the other drivers use. Can you make a list which versions of himem / emm386 have the problem? To begin with, I suggest the categories: 1 fd himem, 2 j himem (himemx), 3 fd emm386, 4 jemm386, and 5 jemmex. Gives various (8) combinations: 1, 2, 1+3, 1+4, 2+3, 2+4, 5, none. Question is which of the 8 have problems. Please belive me I'm an ordinary user not developer and don't have a time (and head:)) for searching bugs especially when it works. When it works I'm happy enough and don't want to know why it didn't work yesterday :). If you want I can send you my floppy image, unfortunatelly I don't have a copy of the non-working one. My HIMEM/EMM386 versions: 3.26/2.26, jemm version 564, kernel: 1.1.35 Well, I need to have all my DOS programs, and it's about 8 MB You should just include a cdrom driver to access the rest :-). Options are: eltorito (if you boot with isolinux and memdisk only), xcdrom (ide), gcdrom (sata), maybe others. The eltorito dot sys driver from www.nu2.nu/eltorito/ is interesting. If you like it, you should remind Bart to open-source it ;-). You also need a high level driver for any cdrom drivers. In MSDOS, it is called mscdex. We use shsucdx instead. I use CD-ROM drivers, but don't know how to add programs from CD directory to PATH variable. (to search for CD label?) Why use eltorito driver? I have xcdrom and it works fine with memdisk, but you suggested eltorito, is it better? m4mach - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] collision between freedos emm386 and memdisk
Hi, BTW: did anyone ever try to run Intel NDIS network drivers with EMM386/JEMM ? Yes, I do. EMM386/JEMM works great with all Intel NDIS drivers for the 100, 1000 and 1 Series. Norbert. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
