Re: [Freedos-user] Possible problem with Turkish keyboard layouts (was: Re: [Spam] Re: [Spam] Re: [Spam] Re: [Spam] Possible problem with Turkish keyboard layouts)
Hi, Just wanted to let you and the list know that I completely deleted my previous VirtualBox install (and FreeDOS with it) and reinstalled everything on Ubuntu 10.04.4 amd64. Allocated a bit more RAM a bit less disk space to FreeDOS but no changes other than that... ...except that now even when I choose 59 Turkey Qwerty, I get a good old US QWERTY layout, not the Turkish one. Why? I don't have the slightest idea. When I type KEYB TR, here's what I get: FreeDOS KEYB 2.01 - (c) Aitor Santamaria Merino - GNU GPL 2.0 Keyboard layout : C:\FDOS\BIN\KEYBOARD.SYS Specified file does not contain information for this layout/id Other than that, the previous error messages I had mentioned are still there. (On my previous install, the country code 19 during the installation which I suppose was for the Turkish F layout got me a US QWERTY but although I got error messages, the country code 59 had the correct Turkish QWERTY layout. Now I get US QWERTY for both of them). It looks like this feature will need some testing when it's fixed. I can happily volunteer for that, feel free to drop me an e-mail whenever you need a tester. On what concerns reading/writing, I'm far more confortable. Turkish, for instance, I practice whenever I'm playing backgammon on the Internet. (It seems that you, turkish people, learn to play it in the nursery!! You're great players!) Unfortunately, indeed. I prefer chess, so I was always kind of an outcast. But it's not surprising at all that some folks play online (especially during the winter, I guess :) -- Goebbels was in favor of free speech for views he liked. So was Stalin. If you’re in favor of free speech, then you’re in favor of freedom of speech precisely for views you despise. Otherwise, you’re not in favor of free speech - Noam Chomsky. -- LogMeIn Rescue: Anywhere, Anytime Remote support for IT. Free Trial Remotely access PCs and mobile devices and provide instant support Improve your efficiency, and focus on delivering more value-add services Discover what IT Professionals Know. Rescue delivers http://p.sf.net/sfu/logmein_12329d2d ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] [Spam] Re: [Spam] Possible problem with Turkish keyboard layouts
On 30/11/12 01:40, Henrique Peron wrote: Merhaba Thraex, Saluton Ruĝulo, Thraex, you're right. I have downloaded and installed the new FreeDOS ISO, v1.1 under VirtualBox. I have noticed the problem concerning the turkish layouts, and I could see that it will affect most national layouts. It's nice to see that your nailed down the issue which happens to be sexy in some way: it seems to affect a large set of languages but at the same time, it's identified and doesn't seem extremely hard to fix. Hope the developers will have some time to spare for it. • For some reason (and I don't know why), AUTOEXEC.BAT is created so to look for the turkish FGĞIOD layout on KEYBRD3.SYS, instead of looking for it on KEYBRD2.SYS. Regarding Turkish, my advice would be to use the Turkish QWERTY layout as the default and/or the first option because it's by far the most widely used one and other operating systems do so too. In all cases, please make sure that you provide layout information: Turkish QWERTY and Turkish FGĞIOD (or the shorter versions Turkish Q and Turkish F which are perfectly understood). On FreeDOS 1.1, option 19 during the installation simply states Turkey and has the issue we've talked about. If you think it makes sense, you may want to forward that paragraph to the developers mailing list. ISO Latin codepages for FreeDOS are ready to go, for a long time already, by the way. Ruĝulo, if you and/or anyone out there reading this message feels that keyboard layouts based on ISO Latin codepages would be welcome, please let me know. I don't know if it's the right place but I'd suggest two additional layouts. Colemak would be the first one: same goals compared to Dvorak (which is already supported), but closer to QWERTY so it's intended to be easier to learn. More information on http://colemak.com/, public domain stuff. For French, there's BÉPO, the kind of keyboard that makes you regret you learnt AZERTY. It may need to be simplified a bit to fit DOS though. Everything is under free licenses, and there's more information on http://bepo.fr/. For both projects, their members would do their best to help out. On 29/11/12 22:23, Rugxulo wrote: Just FYI, but I dunno if 10.04 is still supported (is it?). Wasn't that Lucid? Yes, it is Lucid Lynx and it's still supported -- until April 2013 for the Desktop edition, so 3 years after it's been released and until April 2015 for the server edition. Ubuntu Precise has 5 years of support for both the desktop and server editions. Finally, if translations in French and/or Turkish would be useful, feel free to ping me. You have two hands on a keyboard at your disposal, it's up to you to make good use of them :p Best regards. -- Goebbels was in favor of free speech for views he liked. So was Stalin. If you’re in favor of free speech, then you’re in favor of freedom of speech precisely for views you despise. Otherwise, you’re not in favor of free speech - Noam Chomsky. -- Keep yourself connected to Go Parallel: TUNE You got it built. Now make it sing. Tune shows you how. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] [Spam] Re: [Spam] Re: [Spam] Possible problem with Turkish keyboard layouts
On 30/11/12 14:45, Henrique Peron wrote: I would like to discuss ideas on improving that keyboard layout menu, because the screen has run out of space and there are other layouts which aren't presented there, like the Cherokee and the Colemak, which you mentioned below. I'd say separate functionality and appearance, the latter should follow the former. Right now, there are three free slots if I am not mistaken. This makes room for Colemak and Bépo, the last slot could be simply Next Page, which could also be enabled with Page Up (previous screen, if any) and Page Down keys (next screen, if any; but no need to waste screen space to document that though. -- By the way, is it possible to enter the Cherokee syllabary with a good old keyboard?). The keyboard layout menu is beautiful on the first screen but, as you select More..., the next screen does not receive the same refinement. Again — if there's someone out there reading fd-devel which could work on that, please either show yourself here or contact me at hperon -at- terra.com.br. As for the appearance, IMHO the same colour palette than the previous screen (especially the blue background) could make sense. The one thing I had spontaneously done on that additional layouts screen was to try to select the layout with the cursor keys. If devs have enough time, that could possibly be a bonus addition. I'll take this opportunity to mention a couple of trivial typos one encounters on the first installation screen: Boot from harddisk Explanatory text which appears at the bottom of the screen: Starts your installed regularly used operating system from harddisk Note that the final period is missing. Boot from diskette Explanatory text: Startup from system bootdisk if you still have a floppydrive and diskettes Note that the final period is missing here, too. Also, IIRC, Startup should be Start up and floppydrive should be floppy drive in two words. (Sorry if that sounds pedantic, this not my intention at all, it's just all I can contribute). Thank you for the tip on the Bépo layout; actually, I had already learned about it. I just didn't work on that yet. It's a very impressive layout, covering many languages written with the latin script. It seems that there's even support for vietnamese. There's no support for african languages on it, but I have already provided layouts for those languages anyway. Aman hocam! How many languages do you speak? As for me, if I could finally manage to learn... Python, that would be great, but hey. PS; Posting only on freedos-user, given my non existent development skills I have not subscribed to freedos-devel. -- -- Keep yourself connected to Go Parallel: TUNE You got it built. Now make it sing. Tune shows you how. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] [Spam] Re: [Spam] Possible problem with Turkish keyboard layouts
On 28/11/12 01:50, Rugxulo wrote: P.S. More specifically, it would be nice to know which codepage(s) and keyboard layouts you personally intend to use for your language. (Or did I miss that part?) :-) You did not. In fact, I just decided to give FreeDOS a try before installing it for real someday for the sake of the good old days. I normally use the French AZERTY layout -- for which the install process works perfectly in FreeDOS btw. But when I saw Turkish options, I thought I'd check them out and report it if they didn't work. As I speak Turkish and know the Turkish QWERTY layout the idea was to provide feedback about features that may be less well tested than others (and learn a bit in the process). So I fired up VirtualBox and... here I am :) The installer is just a best guess type of thing, not perfect by any stretch. It may be trite to assume users are already familiar with DOS, but that's somewhat implied. I understand that, but OTOH the keyboard layout shouldn't have to be guessed IMHO. If the installer provides a choice, the result probably shouldn't need anything additional from the user. http://help.fdos.org/en/hhstndrd/base/mode.htm But here's a partial (better?) solution: === set CPIDIR=%DOSDIR%\cpi display con=(ega,,3) mode con cp prep=((853) %CPIDIR%\ega.cpx) mode con cp prep=((,737,869) %CPIDIR%\ega5.cpx) mode con cp sel=%DEFAULT% set CPIDIR= if %DEFAULT%==853 keyb us,,%DOSDIR%\keyboard.sys if not %DEFAULT%==853 keyb gk,,%DOSDIR%\keybrd2.sys echo. echo KEYB: Ctrl-Alt-F1 to disable or Ctrl-Alt-F2 to re-enable! echo. === I added these lines just before the alias commands at the bottom of autoexec.bat. Here's what I got: Buffers allocated: 000 in TPA, 003 in XMS Uncompressing and loading UPXed CPI (CPX) file :-). Uncompressing and loading UPXed CPI (CPX) file :-). MODE: Codepage was not found in CPI file MODE select codepage 61 function failed MODE: Specified codepage was not found in file FreeDOS KEYB 2.01 - (c) Aitor Santamaria Merino - GNU GPL 2.0 C:\FDOS\keybrd2.sys: Specified file could not be opened. KEYB: Ctrl-Alt-F1 to disable or Ctrl-Alt-F2 to re-enable! Done processing startup files C:\FDCONFIG.SYS and C:\AUTOEXEC.BAT Note that I installed FreeDOS 1.1 on VirtualBox 3.1.6_OSE r59338 which itself runs on Ubuntu 10.04.4 amd64, so AUTOEXEC.BAT is the standard one created when the keyboard layout 19 (Turkish) is chosen. Should I have deleted something? (I see LH KEYB TR,,keybrd2.sys just on top of the block I typed) Aaah, dotless i, Isildur's bane:-) Heh, that's the easy bug I file almost every time. Capital I becomes ı instead of i when there's a switch to lower case letters. I'm sure this can save lives: http://gizmodo.com/382026/a-cellphones-missing-dot-kills-two-people-puts-three-more-in-jail 8-) As for me, I had translated an app and all the ŞIK (option, like check this box...) words became sik which is a very vulgar word in Turkish (btw, if translations in French or Turkish for FreeDOS would be useful, I can happily try my best to contribute). On 28/11/12 03:04, Henrique Peron wrote: Thanks for explaining, but how do I select these codepages? (...) Please check your AUTOEXEC.BAT file. Make sure there are lines like these: display con=(ega,,3) mode con cp prepare=((853,857,858) c:\freedos\cpi\ega.cpx) mode con cp select=xxx keyb tr I added these lines just before the alias commands at the bottom of autoexec.bat (xxx was 858). I got the following error messages (some of them are probably normal messages which are not related to the issue but I just typed them anyway): Bufferes allocated: 000 in TPA, 003 in XMS MODE: File not found MODE select codepage 858 function failed MODE: Specified codepage was not found in file FreeDOS KEYB 2.01 - (c) Aitor Santamaria Merino - GNU GPL 2.0 Keyboard layout: C:\FDOS\BIN\KEYBOARD.SYS Specified file does not contain information for this layout/id Done processing startup files C:\FDCONFIG.SYS and C:\AUTOEXEC.BAT The four lines above prepare and select 3 codepages, all available on EGA.CPX. You'll trade xxx in the third line for: • 853, if you need to type turkish — and/or esperanto. It is important to mention, though, that codepage 853 seems to be considered obsolete on what concerns the turkish language. (Codepage 853 is the only one which handles esperanto.) • 857, if you don't need esperanto. A good thing about codepage 857 is that it not only seems to be the preferred codepage for turkish; you'll have the Euro sign. • 858, highly recommended to type in western european languages. I say recommended instead of needed because you could perfectly use cp857 to type in, say, portuguese, spanish, italian, etc., however I don't advise you to do that. If you'd like to know why, just let me know. Heh, now I'm curious. If you have time to
[Freedos-user] Possible problem with Turkish keyboard layouts
Hi there, I recently gave FreeDOS a try on VirtualBox (which was running on Ubuntu 12.04). The installation went almost entirely fine, but I think I spotted a problem when the user chooses Turkish layouts for his or her keyboard. In fact two Turkish layouts are offered. One is the number 19 and is simply mentioned as Turkish, the other is the number 59 and is mentioned as Turkish (Qwerty). Here are some links to relevant parts of the installation process, firstly for the number 19 and then for 59. Sorry for posting screenshots for plain text screens, but I couldn't find an easy way to copypaste their content. http://ompldr.org/vZ2gwMA/Screenshot_fd_keyboard_19.gif http://ompldr.org/vZ2gwMg/Screenshot-2_fd_keyboard_19.gif http://ompldr.org/vZ2gwMw/Screenshot-1_fd_59_Turkish_Qwerty.gif http://ompldr.org/vZ2gwNA/Screenshot-2_fd_59_Turkish_Qwerty.gif You can see the error messages, on the first screenshot of each series you have could not find country info for country ID 1 and on the second image you have different errors. If the user chooses 19, the result seems to be a good old *English* QWERTY keyboard. If the choice is 59, things seem to work fine despite the error messages (the layout is OK). I can't say much more than this but since I use the Turkish QWERTY layout, I wanted to bring this to your attention. If I can do something more, feel free to say it. PS: One more thing: if the first layout (19) was supposed to be the Turkish F, I think it should be swapped with the QWERTY (59). In Turkey, roughly around 90% of keyboards are the Turkish QWERTY variant, and the remaining 10% is the Turkish F variant which is supposed to fit the language better. Most operating systems consider Turkish with no additional precision as the Turkish QWERTY, the F keyboard is often an option, not the default. Therefore, the first choice should probably be the Turkish QWERTY. -- Goebbels was in favor of free speech for views he liked. So was Stalin. If you’re in favor of free speech, then you’re in favor of freedom of speech precisely for views you despise. Otherwise, you’re not in favor of free speech - Noam Chomsky. -- Monitor your physical, virtual and cloud infrastructure from a single web console. Get in-depth insight into apps, servers, databases, vmware, SAP, cloud infrastructure, etc. Download 30-day Free Trial. Pricing starts from $795 for 25 servers or applications! http://p.sf.net/sfu/zoho_dev2dev_nov ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] [Spam] Possible problem with Turkish keyboard layouts
On 27/11/12 19:47, Henrique Peron wrote: Em 27/11/2012 13:16, thraex escreveu: Merhaba Thraex, Merhaba Henrique :) I was impulsive on replying and didn't notice the links you sent; sorry. I have read the error message on the TR layout. Er, which one? When I choose option 19 during the install process, the keyboard layout is an English QWERTY, when I choose 59, although what seemed like error messages to me get displayed, the keyboard layout is correct (Turkish QWERTY) without selecting a codepage. You've tried to use the turkish QWERTY layout with codepage 437. It seems you forgot to prepare and select one of the codepages available for that layout, of which two being particularly suitable both for the turkish and kurdish languages: 857 and 853. Thanks for explaining, but how do I select these codepages? Also, please note that the case I reported happens right after a normal installation of FreeDOS, therefore I was wondering whether there's something that needs to be fixed or adjusted so that if the user chooses these layouts, things will work without additional configuration (or an information indicating that some additional configuration is needed will be displayed). If it's possible for you, IMHO the best mean to examine the bug is to install FreeDOS on your side with say VirtualBox and choose keyboard option 19, then do the same with option 59 and see if the installation process is OK for you. If not, the good news would be that things can be improved :) Çok teşekkürler. -- -- Keep yourself connected to Go Parallel: DESIGN Expert tips on starting your parallel project right. http://goparallel.sourceforge.net ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
