[Freesurfer] creating roi

2011-05-13 Thread 李俏俊
dear all,
   i want to get  ROI in the naive space (for example STG) using
freesurfer,i check the email list and find that command mri_extract_label
may help,
so i try it as follow,
   mri_extract_label aparc+aseg.mgz 1030 outli.mgz
but i do not get the ROI i expect.
 do anyone know how can i get the ROI in naive space ?by other commands?by
other software?
many thanks~

qjli
-- 
best wishes
--
CCM计算医学中心
www.ccm.org.cn
中国科学院自动化研究所
Institute of Automation,
Chinese Academy of Sciences
--
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[Freesurfer] comparing FS version 4.0 and FS versione 5.2

2011-05-13 Thread irene....@libero.it
Hi all,
I'm performing a follow-up longitudinal study in a group of patients.
I have 2 brain MRIs per patient (T0 and T1 after 4 years).
I'd like to know if I can analyse the T0 MRI with FS version 4.0 and compare 
these results with T1 MRI analyzed with FS version 5.2.
Thanks,
Irene Mattisi
University Hospital of Padova, Italy.
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Re: [Freesurfer] creating roi

2011-05-13 Thread Bruce Fischl
can you tell us what is wrong with the output? And are you trying to create 
a volume or surface ROI? What do you want to do with the ROI?


On Fri, 13 May 2011, [UTF-8] 
??? wrote:



dear all,
  i want to get  ROI in the naive space (for example STG) using
freesurfer,i check the email list and find that command mri_extract_label
may help,
so i try it as follow,
  mri_extract_label aparc+aseg.mgz 1030 outli.mgz
but i do not get the ROI i expect.
do anyone know how can i get the ROI in naive space £¿by other commands?by
other software?
many thanks~

qjli
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Re: [Freesurfer] comparing FS version 4.0 and FS versione 5.2

2011-05-13 Thread Bruce Fischl
Hi Irene

sorry, no, that would be a biased analysis as there are differences (BTW: 
I assume you mean 5.1 - there is no 5.2 yet. Or 5.1 for that matter, 
although it is *almost* ready)

cheers
Bruce
On Fri, 13 May 2011, irene@libero.it 
wrote:

 Hi all,
 I'm performing a follow-up longitudinal study in a group of patients.
 I have 2 brain MRIs per patient (T0 and T1 after 4 years).
 I'd like to know if I can analyse the T0 MRI with FS version 4.0 and compare
 these results with T1 MRI analyzed with FS version 5.2.
 Thanks,
 Irene Mattisi
 University Hospital of Padova, Italy.
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Re: [Freesurfer] comparing FS version 4.0 and FS versione 5.2

2011-05-13 Thread Martin Reuter
Hi Irene,
I would of course also suggest to run the longitudinal stream ( see wiki) to 
improve results. 

Be aware that after 4 years you probably have all kinds of problems with your 
data (acquisition parameters, different calibration, different scanner software 
versions or even different hardware). This can change grey white contrast and 
other things significantly.
 In that case you can't really estimate and control that effect with only a 
single time point on either side and you might endup seeing anything in your 
results.

Martin

On May 13, 2011, at 6:02 AM, irene@libero.it irene@libero.it wrote:

 Hi all,
 I'm performing a follow-up longitudinal study in a group of patients.
 I have 2 brain MRIs per patient (T0 and T1 after 4 years).
 I'd like to know if I can analyse the T0 MRI with FS version 4.0 and compare 
 these results with T1 MRI analyzed with FS version 5.2.
 Thanks,
 Irene Mattisi
 University Hospital of Padova, Italy.
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Re: [Freesurfer] display results on fsaverage / calculate area

2011-05-13 Thread Boris Bernhardt
Hi,

 No no, to take the average of the areas is not the same as take the average 
 of the coordinates, because the areas depend quadratically on linear 
 distances. An average of the areas would not necessarily represent a surface 
 at the middle, most likely representing an (invisible) surface that would be 
 closer to the white in some places and closer to the pial in others, 
 depending on local folding.
 Hope this helps!

yes - that helps and clarifies things. 

Thank you all for your help and patience,  
Boris 

On 2011-05-12, at 11:57 PM, Anderson Winkler wrote:

 Hi Boris,
 
 For now I am taking the geometric average between pial and white surface 
 coordinates.  
 Is that the right way to do it, or is there a more precise way? 
 
 To obtain a surface that lies in the geometric middle between white and pial 
 surfaces, it is correct to take the average of the coordinates. This surface 
 is not guaranteed to coincide with any biologically meaningful cortical 
 layer, but it has advantages over pial or white for not 
 over/under-representing gyri or sulci.
 
 Also: If I decided to represent the stuff on the mid-surface, would it then 
 also make sense to also take the average of pial.avg.area.mgh 
 white.avg.area.mgh as the area estimation at each vertex? 
 
 No no, to take the average of the areas is not the same as take the average 
 of the coordinates, because the areas depend quadratically on linear 
 distances. An average of the areas would not necessarily represent a surface 
 at the middle, most likely representing an (invisible) surface that would be 
 closer to the white in some places and closer to the pial in others, 
 depending on local folding.
 
 Hope this helps!
 
 All the best,
 
 Anderson

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[Freesurfer] Cerebellum segmentation, auto vs manual reference?

2011-05-13 Thread McLean John (NHS Greater Glasgow Clyde)
Hi,

I've found some volume differences in the cerebellum between two groups I've 
been studying. I used freesurfer v4.5 to do the segmentation. I am looking for 
a reference to justify the use of Freesurfer and to say that it compares well 
with manual tracing of the cerebellum but I'm struggling to find a paper with 
that data. Can anyone comment or point me in the right direction?

The Fischl et al 2002 Neuron paper has a comparison of most subcortical regions 
but doesn't include the cerebellum and other papers I've seen by Makris et al 
03' and 05' looks to employ a more involved and detailed approach for the 
cerebellum rather than only running Freesurfer's recon-all process.

Many Thanks
John





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[Freesurfer] Segmentation Fault

2011-05-13 Thread Chindhuri Selvadurai
Hi all,

We are trying to run individual analyses on several subjects, and we keep
getting a 'Segmentation Fault.'  We have run other subjects with the same
command a while ago, and the command worked fine at that time.  Do you
have any idea what would be causing this error?  The output is included
below:

Command: selxavg3-sess -analysis mandyrh3 -fwhm -s PBMCT15
Subjects Dir: /cluster/manoach/milton/subjects
FreeSurfer v. Stable 5


Session: /autofs/cluster/manoach/milton/subjects/PBMCT15 
Fri May 13 12:21:58 EDT 2011
  Run: 012 
Fri May 13 12:21:58 EDT 2011
Update not needed
Fri May 13 12:21:58 EDT 2011
register-sess completed
PBMCT15 MC -
mc-sess -fstem f -fmcstem fmcpr -s PBMCT15 -d
/autofs/cluster/manoach/milton/subjects -fsd bold -rlf task -per-run
-nolog -update
Logfile is /dev/null
---
/autofs/cluster/manoach/milton/subjects/PBMCT15
RunList: 012
  --- ** ---
  --- Motion Correcting Run 012 ---
  --- ** ---
sess = PBMCT15
Fri May 13 12:21:58 EDT 2011
mc-afni2 --i 012/f.nii --t 012/template.nii --o 012/fmcpr.nii.gz --mcdat
012/fmcpr.mcdat
/autofs/cluster/manoach/milton/subjects/PBMCT15/bold
mri_info --nframes --o /tmp/mriinfo.3377 012/template.nii
log file is 012/fmcpr.nii.gz.mclog
mcdat file is 012/fmcpr.mcdat
tmp dir is 012/tmp.mc-afni2.3377
#@# 
/autofs/cluster/manoach/milton/subjects/PBMCT15/bold
mri_convert 012/template.nii 012/tmp.mc-afni2.3377/tempvol.nii.gz --nskip
0 --ndrop 0 -odt float
mri_convert 012/template.nii 012/tmp.mc-afni2.3377/tempvol.nii.gz --nskip
0 --ndrop 0 -odt float
nskip = 0
ndrop = 0
$Id: mri_convert.c,v 1.179.2.1 2011/03/22 16:37:02 nicks Exp $
reading from 012/template.nii...
TR=3000.00, TE=0.00, TI=0.00, flip angle=0.00
i_ras = (-0.998297, -0.0395807, 0.0428535)
j_ras = (0.0411249, -0.998513, 0.0357732)
k_ras = (0.0413739, 0.0374746, 0.998441)
changing data type from short to float (noscale = 0)...
writing to 012/tmp.mc-afni2.3377/tempvol.nii.gz...
#@# 
/autofs/cluster/manoach/milton/subjects/PBMCT15/bold
mri_convert 012/f.nii 012/tmp.mc-afni2.3377/invol.nii.gz -odt float
mri_convert 012/f.nii 012/tmp.mc-afni2.3377/invol.nii.gz -odt float
Segmentation fault


Thanks!

Best,

Chindhuri Selvadurai

Psychiatric Neuroimaging, Manoach Lab
Martinos Center for Biomedical Imaging, MGH
Phone: (617)726-0307
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Re: [Freesurfer] Temporal lobe tracing abnomality uncorrected by control points

2011-05-13 Thread Bruce Fischl
Hi Ammar,

if you adjust control points you should be running autorecon2-cp not -wm.

cheers
Bruce
On 
Fri, 13 May 2011, Moiyadi, Ammar wrote:

 Hi I attached the log file for this subject. I tried adjusting control points 
 and performing autorecon2-wm in repeated iterations. It helped a little but I 
 still am missing a large chunk of both gray and white temporal matter. I'm 
 not sure how many iterations it will take to get a complete tracing but it 
 doesn't seem to be helping as much as the initial few runs.

 Ammar Moiyadi, BS
 Professional Research Assistant
 Psychiatry, School of Medicine
 303-724-5490
 
 From: Bruce Fischl [fis...@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu]
 Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 6:01 PM
 To: Moiyadi, Ammar
 Subject: RE: [Freesurfer] Temporal lobe tracing abnomality uncorrected by 
 control points

 can you send us the recon-all.log file for that subject? And make sure to
 cc the list on your replies so others can help!

 Bruce
 On Tue, 10 May 2011,
 Moiyadi, Ammar wrote:

 Hi Bruce - The image is of the brainmask.mgz file. I have attached another 
 image showing the wm.mgz file - you're right, the wm regions where I placed 
 the control groups is very dark if not absent.  I still don't understand why 
 the proper gray matter boundaries were not obtained however. I did run 
 autorecon2-wm after adding the control points but I will run it again just 
 in case.

 Thanks for your help,

 Ammar
 
 From: Bruce Fischl [fis...@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu]
 Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 2:34 PM
 To: Moiyadi, Ammar
 Cc: freesurfer@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu
 Subject: Re: [Freesurfer] Temporal lobe tracing abnomality uncorrected by 
 control points

 what image are you displaying in this png? If it is one of the brain*.mgz
 then your control points aren't working as the wm is still very dark where
 you place them. Did you run autorecon2-wm after putting the control points
 in?

 On Tue, 10 May 2011, Moiyadi,
 Ammar wrote:

 Dear Freesurfers,

 Freesurfer's autorecon is having trouble tracing both gray and white matter 
 boundaries in the temporal region of one of my subjects (even after I added 
 control points for the white matter). I have attached a png screen shot of 
 this abnormality and was wondering if anyone has any ideas to correct this 
 since I have never seen such a large tracing error before.

 Your input is much appreciated!

 Ammar



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Re: [Freesurfer] Pial surface error

2011-05-13 Thread Allie Rosen
Hi Mario,

I'm not sure what an N4 correction is, but the Freesurfer team helped me to
solve the problem. Here are their instructions:

Sometimes when the skullstrip is wrong, it affects the surfaces even if the
wm parcellation is correct. I ran -skullstrip with the watershed parameter
of 30, and then reran the subject with -autorecon2 -autorecon3. You can find
info how how to run watershed here:
http://surfer.nmr.mgh.harvard.edu/fswiki/FsTutorial/SkullStripFix

http://surfer.nmr.mgh.harvard.edu/fswiki/FsTutorial/SkullStripFixI hope
this helps! I can send over our full conversation if this doesn't give you
the information you need.

Allie



On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 4:26 PM, Mario Ortega mario.ort...@gmail.comwrote:

 HI Allie,
 I am having this exact issue, and I was able to fix only a few of them, Did
 the Freesurfer team ever give you a reliable fix? I used an N4 correction
 before the entire FS process.
 -Mario


 On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 8:32 AM, Allie Rosen rosen.al...@gmail.comwrote:

 Hi,

 Do you want me to email you in a few days about this?

 Allie




 On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 10:25 AM, Khoa Nguyen 
 k...@nmr.mgh.harvard.eduwrote:

 Got it. I'll look at it and get back to you.


 On Tue, 19 Apr 2011, Allie Rosen wrote:

  Hi,

 http://dl.dropbox.com/u/14127241/C42.tar.gz

 Here is the link to the subject. I hope this works!!

 Allie



 On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 9:38 AM, Khoa Nguyen k...@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu
 wrote:

  Another way you can try is upload it to your google doc account and
 send me
 the link. Someone did that before.


 On Tue, 19 Apr 2011, Allie Rosen wrote:

  Hi,


 No, I'm not from the centre. I'm working on putting the files in
 Dropbox
 and
 sending you a link to them, because apparently I don't have ftp
 access.

 Allie



 On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 8:37 AM, Khoa Nguyen 
 k...@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu

 wrote:


  Are you from the center? If so you can just cd into /space/outgoing
 and

 copy your file there. If not, you can follow the instructions in the
 box
 at
 the top using a terminal.


 On Tue, 19 Apr 2011, Allie Rosen wrote:

  Hi,


 I'm really sorry, but I don't understand those instructions. Do I
 login
 to
 the freesurfer website? Or do I login through a terminal somehow? Do
 I
 type
 the stuff in the boxes into the terminal?

 Thanks,
 Allie


 On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 8:18 AM, Khoa Nguyen 
 k...@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu

  wrote:


  Hi Allie,


 You can compress the subject dir and upload it following the
 instructions
 here
 http://surfer.nmr.mgh.harvard.edu/fswiki/FtpFileExchange



 On Tue, 19 Apr 2011, Allie Rosen wrote:

  Hi Khoa,


  How do I upload subjects?

 Thanks,
 Allie



 On Tue, Apr 19, 2011 at 8:06 AM, Khoa Nguyen 
 k...@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu

  wrote:



   Hi Allie,


  Can you upload the subject? I'll take a look and see if I can
 figure
 out
 what's wrong.

 -Khoa


 On Tue, 19 Apr 2011, Allie Rosen wrote:

  Hi,


  This (recon-all after wm.mgz and brainmask.mgz edits) didn't
 work.

 The
 part
 that wasn't included in the pial or white matter surfaces is
 still
 not
 included. The intensities in the white matter regions are no
 different
 than
 in white matter regions that were included in the white matter.
 Any
 other
 suggestions?

 Thanks,
 Allie



 On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 7:53 PM, Allie Rosen 
 rosen.al...@gmail.com


  wrote:

  Hi Bruce,


  I am running recon-all tonight using wm voxels that I manually

 added
 (I
 also edited brainmask.mgz to add missing grey matter). To me it
 doesn't
 really look like a case of the white matter not having a high
 enough
 intensity. It simply looks like the whole lobe was ignored,
 regardless
 of
 intensity. But I'll check tomorrow to see if the intensity is
 low.

 Thanks,
 Allie


 On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 7:38 PM, Bruce Fischl 
 fis...@nmr.mgh.harvard.eduwrote:

  What is the intensity of the white matter in the regions you
 drew
 in?
 A

  couple of control points might help if it is less than 110




 On Apr 18, 2011, at 12:36 PM, Allie Rosen 
 rosen.al...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Hi Sita,

 Thanks for all the responses! I've actually had the same
 problem
 for
 multiple subjects. I'm using version 5.0.0. I'll try fixing
 the
 cerebellum
 as well. I've attached pictures of where I am adding wm
 voxels.
 They
 aren't
 really in the same places as in the online tutorials. Could
 you
 take
 a
 quick
 look to see if they're in the right place?

 Thanks,
 Allie




 On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 12:31 PM, Sita Kakunoori 
 s...@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu
 s...@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu wrote:


  Hi Allie,


  pial surface which looks like this can only be corrected by
 correcting
 the wm.mgz. Also I would suggest to try and fix the
 cerebellum
 and
 see
 if it
 corrects the surfaces as well. Since part of the cerebellum
 is
 stripped
 off,
 it's probably affecting the segmentation as well but I could
 be
 wrong.
 what
 version of freesurfer are you using.


 Sita.



 On Mon, 18 Apr 2011, Allie Rosen wrote:

  Hi Sita,


  Can I still add 

Re: [Freesurfer] Cerebellum segmentation, auto vs manual reference?

2011-05-13 Thread Tricia Merkley
You might want to take at look at the following article.

Bigler ED, Abildskov TJ, Wilde EA, et al. Diffuse damage in pediatric traumatic 
brain injury: a comparison of automated versus operator-controlled 
quantification methods. Neuroimage 2010;50:1017-26.

Cerebellar GM volumes were similar between analysis methods, whereas cerebellar 
WM volumes differed (likely due to differing boundary inclusion/exclusion 
criteria and challenges for image quantification due to the numerous folia of 
the cerebellum).

Hope this helps.

Tricia Merkley

--- On Fri, 5/13/11, McLean John (NHS Greater Glasgow  Clyde) 
johnmcl...@nhs.net wrote:

From: McLean John (NHS Greater Glasgow  Clyde) johnmcl...@nhs.net
Subject: [Freesurfer] Cerebellum segmentation, auto vs manual reference?
To: freesurfer@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu freesurfer@nmr.mgh.harvard.edu
Date: Friday, May 13, 2011, 7:01 AM



 
 


 

Hi, 
   
I’ve found some volume differences in the cerebellum between two groups I’ve 
been studying. I used freesurfer v4.5 to do the segmentation. I am looking for 
a reference to justify the use of Freesurfer and to say that it compares well 
with
 manual tracing of the cerebellum but I’m struggling to find a paper with that 
data. Can anyone comment or point me in the right direction?
 
   
The Fischl et al 2002 Neuron paper has a comparison of most subcortical regions 
but doesn’t include the cerebellum and other papers I’ve seen by Makris et al 
03’ and 05’ looks to employ a more involved and detailed approach for the 
cerebellum
 rather than only running Freesurfer’s recon-all process. 
   
Many Thanks 
John 
   
   







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Re: [Freesurfer] creating roi

2011-05-13 Thread 李俏俊
I want to do some parcellation on the temporal lobe,so i think I should
create a volume ROI. there is no error in freesufer,but I dont know whether
freesurfer can do this and how?Atlas-based way to get ROI is OK,but it is
not precise enough. Can you give me some suggestions?
thanks~


On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 7:24 PM, Bruce Fischl fis...@nmr.mgh.harvard.eduwrote:

 can you tell us what is wrong with the output? And are you trying to create
 a volume or surface ROI? What do you want to do with the ROI?


 On Fri, 13 May 2011, [UTF-8] ??? wrote:

  dear all,
  i want to get  ROI in the naive space (for example STG) using
 freesurfer,i check the email list and find that command mri_extract_label
 may help,
 so i try it as follow,
  mri_extract_label aparc+aseg.mgz 1030 outli.mgz
 but i do not get the ROI i expect.
 do anyone know how can i get the ROI in naive space ?by other commands?by
 other software?
 many thanks~

 qjli


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best wishes
--
CCM计算医学中心
www.ccm.org.cn
中国科学院自动化研究所
Institute of Automation,
Chinese Academy of Sciences
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