Re: [FRIAM] (no subject)
Gary is correct on the pron. and explanation of the pasty. The best ones are from a small restaurant in Virginia, MN on da range as they say. I understood these delectable treats actually started with the Welsh miners - something along the lines of the movie How Green Was My Valley (did I get the title correct?). And its been 32 years since I was in Virginia to eat one. The impression lasts Steph T Gary Schiltz wrote: You haven't lived until you've eaten a pasty (pronounced PAST EE, and not to be confused withthe minimalist apparel worn by certain entertainers, so I've been told) on a -20 degree winter day in the upper great lakes region. One of the main ingredients is, of course, rutabaga. A pasty is sort of like a pot pie, folded over into a half moon shape. I've been told they originated with the miners of the region, as they were a complete meal that was easy to carry down into the mines. Some references: www.pastys.com http://www.pastys.com, www.hu.mtu.edu/vup/pasty/recipes.htm http://www.hu.mtu.edu/vup/pasty/recipes.htm. Mmm, make mine with gravy, eh?! ;; Gary On Mar 28, 2009, at 6:20 PM, Nicholas Thompson wrote: Pamela, have never eaten a rutabaga. I have stood at the produce in Whole Foods and admired their fortitude, but i have actually never even knowingly MET a person who has consmued a rutabaga. Are you prepared to introduce me to rutabaga's. A way of cooking them that makes them taste like pancakes with maple syrup, perhaps. N Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, Clark University (nthomp...@clarku.edu mailto:nthomp...@clarku.edu) http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
Re: [FRIAM] (no subject)
Cornish pasties loomed large in my family legend: as a young man my father always went to Cornwall for holidays from grim Liverpool, where my family was situated. He loved to talk about the treat that Cornish pasties were. So when I finally visited Cornwall (as full of mines as Wales, and with probably an even longer tradition of mining, since the Romans bought Cornish tin) I had to try one. Uhm, I see. Like egg creams and other fond treats of childhood, better in the memory than in reality. And yes, rutabagas were known as swedes in our family. Like sweet potatoes? A stretch. I shop at farmers' markets both in Santa Fe and in New York City (mine two blocks away from my home in New York City is open year round). But after you've exhausted the root veggies, pickings are mighty slim. When I visit the farmers' market in the San Francisco Ferry Building at any time of the year, I'm seized with such craven envy that my heart stops. This entire thread is to say that the self-righteous way Californians force upon us precepts about eating locally (yes, you, Alice) is surely well meant, but a sacrifice they don't personally have to make. PMcC On Mar 29, 2009, at 10:25 AM, Stephen Thompson wrote: Gary is correct on the pron. and explanation of the pasty. The best ones are from a small restaurant in Virginia, MN on da range as they say. I understood these delectable treats actually started with the Welsh miners - something along the lines of the movie How Green Was My Valley (did I get the title correct?). And its been 32 years since I was in Virginia to eat one. The impression lasts Steph T Gary Schiltz wrote: You haven't lived until you've eaten a pasty (pronounced PAST EE, and not to be confused withthe minimalist apparel worn by certain entertainers, so I've been told) on a -20 degree winter day in the upper great lakes region. One of the main ingredients is, of course, rutabaga. A pasty is sort of like a pot pie, folded over into a half moon shape. I've been told they originated with the miners of the region, as they were a complete meal that was easy to carry down into the mines. Some references: www.pastys.com, www.hu.mtu.edu/vup/pasty/recipes.htm . Mmm, make mine with gravy, eh?! ;; Gary On Mar 28, 2009, at 6:20 PM, Nicholas Thompson wrote: Pamela, have never eaten a rutabaga. I have stood at the produce in Whole Foods and admired their fortitude, but i have actually never even knowingly MET a person who has consmued a rutabaga. Are you prepared to introduce me to rutabaga's. A way of cooking them that makes them taste like pancakes with maple syrup, perhaps. N Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, Clark University (nthomp...@clarku.edu) http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org Out of the crooked timber of humanity, nothing straight can ever be made. Immanuel Kant FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
Re: [FRIAM] (no subject)
Not puns, but I hope this helps. from Prairie Home Companion 12/31/05: *Garrison Keillor:* ...brought to you by RCA, the Rutabaga Council of America, representing America's most under-appreciated vegetable, rutabagas. So many people confuse rutabagas with turnips. They're not alike at all. Rutabagas have a pleasant yellow-orange color, large friendly-looking leaves, and a smooth dense texture. Turnips are fish-belly white and purple on top like a bad bruise and have hairy leaves and taste brackish, like swamp water. Rutabagas are the root crop that any sensible person would prefer. Rutabaga — it's suitable for any occasion. Rutabagas' firm yet impetuous flavor go well with Bordeauxs, Chablis, or even champagne. Use julienned rutabagas to clear the palate before dessert. Stir-fried rutabagas can bulk up any Chinese dish. Or how about rutabaga ratatouille. And instead of an olive in your Martini, why not try a rutabaga wedge. Rutabaga— it's America's under-utilized vegetable. On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 10:08 PM, Nicholas Thompson nickthomp...@earthlink.net wrote: Oh please send them to me. All six. Nick Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, Clark University (nthomp...@clarku.edu) http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
[FRIAM] vol. 69, Issue 18
My parents ate Rutabagas .. didn't know they were called Swedes. They aren't too bad actually .. sort of like a turnip. Peggy FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
[FRIAM] What is friam REALLY about?
My father;s favorite saying was: Things are never what they seem, skim milk masquerades for cream! Not particularly elegant, but he LOVED to say it. So it is that things are never about what they are called. For instance, if you have ever painted a house, you know that the proceddure should be called House Scraping, because the painting is a relatively insignificant part of the whole operation. And vacuuming should be called furniture displacement. Last year I discovered that faculty life is really about finding high minded rationales from protecting our salary. At the university where I worked for nearly 40 years, there is a faculty discussion list that was created so the faculty could discuss matters of the mind. Since I left , it went completely silent. I assumed that the list was defunct. But when the compensation committee proposed a salary freeze as part of an austerity program, oh WOW did THAT sucker come to life! And in the last week, I discovered that FRIAM is really about FOOD and PUNS. What a turnout! What amazing richness of information and imagination! Next I expect to discover that the NAME of FRIAM is really the name for a cockney method of cooking smoked pork. Nick Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, Clark University (nthomp...@clarku.edu) http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
Re: [FRIAM] What is friam REALLY about?
Well, one of the things it seems to have turned into is a mechanism for various trivia discussions with a sometimes modest cultural or scientific connection, so in light of that, do you know, Nick (or anyone), who wrote the couplet your father loved to quote? js On Mar 29, 2009, at 10:34 AM, Nicholas Thompson wrote: My father;s favorite saying was: Things are never what they seem, skim milk masquerades for cream! Not particularly elegant, but he LOVED to say it. So it is that things are never about what they are called. For instance, if you have ever painted a house, you know that the proceddure should be called House Scraping, because the painting is a relatively insignificant part of the whole operation. And vacuuming should be called furniture displacement. Last year I discovered that faculty life is really about finding high minded rationales from protecting our salary. At the university where I worked for nearly 40 years, there is a faculty discussion list that was created so the faculty could discuss matters of the mind. Since I left , it went completely silent. I assumed that the list was defunct. But when the compensation committee proposed a salary freeze as part of an austerity program, oh WOW did THAT sucker come to life! And in the last week, I discovered that FRIAM is really about FOOD and PUNS. What a turnout! What amazing richness of information and imagination! Next I expect to discover that the NAME of FRIAM is really the name for a cockney method of cooking smoked pork. Nick Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, Clark University (nthomp...@clarku.edu) http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
Re: [FRIAM] What is friam REALLY about?
Nick, Perhaps FRIAM is finally discovering it's roots. (That's two). --Doug On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 10:34 AM, Nicholas Thompson nickthomp...@earthlink.net wrote: And in the last week, I discovered that FRIAM is really about FOOD and PUNS. What a turnout! What amazing richness of information and imagination! Next I expect to discover that the NAME of FRIAM is really the name for a cockney method of cooking smoked pork. Nick Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, Clark University (nthomp...@clarku.edu) http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
Re: [FRIAM] What is friam REALLY about?
Well, the FriAM coffee klatch from whence the e-mail list gets it's name has *always* been about food (COFFEE is food, right?) and puns (or more generally WITTICISMS and CLEVERISMS) more than anything else. - Steve My father;s favorite saying was: Things are never what they seem, skim milk masquerades for cream! Not particularly elegant, but he LOVED to say it. So it is that things are never about what they are called. For instance, if you have ever painted a house, you know that the proceddureshould be called House Scraping, because the painting is a relatively insignificant part of the whole operation. And vacuuming should be called "furniture displacement". Last year I discovered that faculty life is really about "finding high minded rationales from protecting our salary." At the university where I worked for nearly 40 years, there is a "faculty discussion" list that was created so the faculty could discuss matters of the mind. Since I left , it went completely silent. I assumed that the list was defunct. But when the compensation committee proposed a salary freeze as part of an austerity program, oh WOW did THAT sucker come to life! And in the last week, I discovered that FRIAM is really about FOOD and PUNS. What a turnout! What amazing richness of information and imagination! Next I expect to discover that the NAME of FRIAM is really the namefora cockney method of cooking smoked pork. Nick Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, Clark University (nthomp...@clarku.edu) http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
Re: [FRIAM] What is friam REALLY about?
You mean the true nature of FRIAM is emerging organically? (three) On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 1:08 PM, Douglas Roberts d...@parrot-farm.netwrote: Nick, Perhaps FRIAM is finally discovering it's roots. (That's two). --Doug On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 10:34 AM, Nicholas Thompson nickthomp...@earthlink.net wrote: And in the last week, I discovered that FRIAM is really about FOOD and PUNS. What a turnout! What amazing richness of information and imagination! Next I expect to discover that the NAME of FRIAM is really the name for a cockney method of cooking smoked pork. Nick Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, Clark University (nthomp...@clarku.edu) http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
Re: [FRIAM] What is friam REALLY about?
It's about time for a mashup. (four) On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 12:26 PM, Ted Carmichael teds...@gmail.com wrote: You mean the true nature of FRIAM is emerging organically? (three) On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 1:08 PM, Douglas Roberts d...@parrot-farm.netwrote: Nick, Perhaps FRIAM is finally discovering it's roots. (That's two). --Doug On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 10:34 AM, Nicholas Thompson nickthomp...@earthlink.net wrote: And in the last week, I discovered that FRIAM is really about FOOD and PUNS. What a turnout! What amazing richness of information and imagination! Next I expect to discover that the NAME of FRIAM is really the name for a cockney method of cooking smoked pork. Nick Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, Clark University (nthomp...@clarku.edu) http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
Re: [FRIAM] What is friam REALLY about?
Fri(ed)(y)ams - Original Message - From: Douglas Roberts To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 11:29 AM Subject: Re: [FRIAM] What is friam REALLY about? It's about time for a mashup. (four) On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 12:26 PM, Ted Carmichael teds...@gmail.com wrote: You mean the true nature of FRIAM is emerging organically? (three) On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 1:08 PM, Douglas Roberts d...@parrot-farm.net wrote: Nick, Perhaps FRIAM is finally discovering it's roots. (That's two). --Doug On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 10:34 AM, Nicholas Thompson nickthomp...@earthlink.net wrote: And in the last week, I discovered that FRIAM is really about FOOD and PUNS. What a turnout! What amazing richness of information and imagination! Next I expect to discover that the NAME of FRIAM is really the name for a cockney method of cooking smoked pork. Nick Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, Clark University (nthomp...@clarku.edu) http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org -- FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
Re: [FRIAM] What is friam REALLY about?
Lettuce all turnip and root for FRIAM at the next meat. (four) Robert C (Can they get any worse? - But wait it can't be that bad, there was a NYT Op-ed 'Puns for the Ages' yesterday.) Ted Carmichael wrote: You mean the true nature of FRIAM is emerging organically? (three) On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 1:08 PM, Douglas Roberts d...@parrot-farm.net mailto:d...@parrot-farm.net wrote: Nick, Perhaps FRIAM is finally discovering it's roots. (That's two). --Doug On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 10:34 AM, Nicholas Thompson nickthomp...@earthlink.net mailto:nickthomp...@earthlink.net wrote: And in the last week, I discovered that FRIAM is really about FOOD and PUNS. What a turnout! What amazing richness of information and imagination! Next I expect to discover that the NAME of FRIAM is really the name for a cockney method of cooking smoked pork. Nick Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, Clark University (nthomp...@clarku.edu mailto:nthomp...@clarku.edu) http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
Re: [FRIAM] What is friam REALLY about?
It is curious that we find tuber puns so appealing. (Um, 5) On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 12:44 PM, Robert J. Cordingley rob...@cirrillian.com wrote: Lettuce all turnip and root for FRIAM at the next meat. (four) Robert C (Can they get any worse? - But wait it can't be that bad, there was a NYT Op-ed 'Puns for the Ages' yesterday.) Ted Carmichael wrote: You mean the true nature of FRIAM is emerging organically? (three) On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 1:08 PM, Douglas Roberts d...@parrot-farm.netwrote: Nick, Perhaps FRIAM is finally discovering it's roots. (That's two). --Doug On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 10:34 AM, Nicholas Thompson nickthomp...@earthlink.net wrote: And in the last week, I discovered that FRIAM is really about FOOD and PUNS. What a turnout! What amazing richness of information and imagination! Next I expect to discover that the NAME of FRIAM is really the name for a cockney method of cooking smoked pork. Nick Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, Clark University (nthomp...@clarku.edu) http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org -- FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
[FRIAM] Locovores was: (no subject)
So... I don't know how interested this group is in this conversation in general, but I am and there has been enough back and forth that I think maybe it is worth continuing and elaborating. Disclaimer: This is really just a rambling rant, unevenly spiced with sincerity and sarcasm. No harm is intended to anyone or anything, except maybe my own hypocricy. I really am as confused on this subject as I sound! Pamela's recent strong statements added poignancy to the discussion for me: This entire thread is to say that the self-righteous way Californians force upon us precepts about eating locally (yes, you, Alice) is surely well meant, but a sacrifice they don't personally have to make. and Okay, I answered Nick privately with a non-PC answer, so I may as well 'fess up to the whole group. I am perfectly willing to pay whatever it costs to fly in sweet green produce from better climates. Sorry to be such a spoiled brat. Does anyone have good ideas or models for the way our whole system has oscillated around transportation, industrialized food production, consumerism, etc. ? How do we get a grip on the false economies and arbitrary assumptions we make about our deeply ingrained sense of how all this works? I am very much (in principle) in favor of localized production/consumption of just about everything. I am very much (in practice) very much prone to ignore my principles and buy, consume, eat things from wherever with hardly any awareness or concern for how silly I would feel if I really knew what went into producing it and getting it to me. For example, I might very well go buy a stem of "vine ripened tomatoes" (from a hydroponic hothouse half way across the continent) from the supermarket in late summer while my next door neighbor is having a hard time getting rid of all the tomatoes they grow. I also am a bit of a "spoiled brat" about such things. I *like* being able to buy just about anything, anywhere, anytime regardless of what season it is, etc. I *am* aware enough of what fresh fruits and vegetables are *supposed* to look and taste like to recognize the difference between produce picked unripe and packed/shipped/painted/waxed for appearance vs truly fresh. About all this is good for is reminding me when I'm actually eating something *totally* out of season and *clearly* trucked from half a continent away, not just a few hundred miles. I still eat citrus all winter long. I still eat avocados when they are "good enough" in quality and not "totally outrageous" in price. What offends me (about myself) most is that it is not like I am not aware of these issues like I might have been decades ago. It is not like I don't believe that global climate change is a problem and that it is specifically aggravated by things like our "transportation economy" and our "industrial agriculture" and lots else. Much of what we do, we do for variations on "because we can" and "false economies". When the price of diesel spiked over $4/gallon this summer, we saw a "slow" response in reduced OTR trucking, but the Capital Investment in the Trucks and other infrastructure and the momentum of the industry kept the "sweet green produce" flowing from places like the lush irrigated (with water from the Colorado Plateau in many cases) to places like NYC, Boston, Chicago which admittedly could never produce any small fraction of the produce they consume (or waste in many cases). By the time the price of produce could go up and the availability could go down, diesel was back down to $2.50 and even though this was a net increase, it felt like a relief (to those paying the price directly), but the rest of us really managed to hardly suffer from that. And lets not forget how the major explosives plants built for WWII were converted directly to fertilizer production immediately after the war (there is a reason Tim McViegh was able to blow up a building with a truckload of fuel-oil and commercial fertilizer... try that with horse manure!). We had an industry looking for a customer, and the customer was *us* in the form of higher volumes and higher quality agricultural products than ever! And not only do we ship grapes from Chile and Lettuce from CA to NY, we also ship "coals to newcastle". During Northern NM's Apple harvest, our own apples go begging while we ship them in from WA state in nitrogen packed, refrigerated trucks to major food chains. Local supermarkets will not (or hardly) consider selling local produce, for many reasons, not related to the actual *value* of the produce. It is for reasons of supply chain, automated inventory, consistency, etc. And *we* collaborate by insisting (as I mentioned earlier with Hot House Tomatoes) on uniformity and predictability in our product over all else. If we buy a bushel from Dixon we probably let 3/4 of it rot. If you watch any industrial agriculture in action, you will see they are all about either reducing labor (mechanizing) or reducing labor costs (using
[FRIAM] Official Google Research Blog: The Unreasonable Effectiveness of Data
we should stop acting as if our goal is to author extremely elegant theories, and instead embrace complexity and make use of the best ally we have: the unreasonable effectiveness of data...: http://www.computer.org/portal/cms_docs_intelligent/intelligent/homepage/2009/x2exp.pdf --Mikhail FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
[FRIAM] Freeman Dyson
While we are at it, did anybody read about Freeman Dyson in the Times Mag today? What did you think? N Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, Clark University (nthomp...@clarku.edu) http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
[FRIAM] Locovores was: (no subject)
Your rant is great, Steve; send it to the Times. Op Ed quality. Months ago we got into a short riff on FRIAM about whether a complexitist can plan. If what we believe, after all, is that the factors that determine events are too small and too far away to be known, how on earth can we make a plan. Part of the problem you lay out so well is that we have no way of knowing whether the sacrifices we might make in the name of saving the planet will have positive consequences. In fact, you can probably get a debate on this site about whether the idea of causality, itself, makes any sense in this context. Faced with these truths, even more inconvenient than those that Gore spoke of, there seem to be two possible responses --Dionysian fatalism or Apollonian plodding ahead. But these are VALUES not rational plans of action. So it all comes down to values??? Which is to say, STeve, i share your angst. Nick Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, Clark University (nthomp...@clarku.edu) http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ - Original Message - From: Steve Smith To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Sent: 3/29/2009 2:26:27 PM Subject: [FRIAM] Locovores was: (no subject) So... I don't know how interested this group is in this conversation in general, but I am and there has been enough back and forth that I think maybe it is worth continuing and elaborating. Disclaimer: This is really just a rambling rant, unevenly spiced with sincerity and sarcasm. No harm is intended to anyone or anything, except maybe my own hypocricy. I really am as confused on this subject as I sound! Pamela's recent strong statements added poignancy to the discussion for me: This entire thread is to say that the self-righteous way Californians force upon us precepts about eating locally (yes, you, Alice) is surely well meant, but a sacrifice they don't personally have to make. and Okay, I answered Nick privately with a non-PC answer, so I may as well 'fess up to the whole group. I am perfectly willing to pay whatever it costs to fly in sweet green produce from better climates. Sorry to be such a spoiled brat. Does anyone have good ideas or models for the way our whole system has oscillated around transportation, industrialized food production, consumerism, etc. ? How do we get a grip on the false economies and arbitrary assumptions we make about our deeply ingrained sense of how all this works? I am very much (in principle) in favor of localized production/consumption of just about everything. I am very much (in practice) very much prone to ignore my principles and buy, consume, eat things from wherever with hardly any awareness or concern for how silly I would feel if I really knew what went into producing it and getting it to me. For example, I might very well go buy a stem of vine ripened tomatoes (from a hydroponic hothouse half way across the continent) from the supermarket in late summer while my next door neighbor is having a hard time getting rid of all the tomatoes they grow. I also am a bit of a spoiled brat about such things. I *like* being able to buy just about anything, anywhere, anytime regardless of what season it is, etc. I *am* aware enough of what fresh fruits and vegetables are *supposed* to look and taste like to recognize the difference between produce picked unripe and packed/shipped/painted/waxed for appearance vs truly fresh. About all this is good for is reminding me when I'm actually eating something *totally* out of season and *clearly* trucked from half a continent away, not just a few hundred miles. I still eat citrus all winter long. I still eat avocados when they are good enough in quality and not totally outrageous in price. What offends me (about myself) most is that it is not like I am not aware of these issues like I might have been decades ago. It is not like I don't believe that global climate change is a problem and that it is specifically aggravated by things like our transportation economy and our industrial agriculture and lots else. Much of what we do, we do for variations on because we can and false economies. When the price of diesel spiked over $4/gallon this summer, we saw a slow response in reduced OTR trucking, but the Capital Investment in the Trucks and other infrastructure and the momentum of the industry kept the sweet green produce flowing from places like the lush irrigated (with water from the Colorado Plateau in many cases) to places like NYC, Boston, Chicago which admittedly could never produce any small fraction of the produce they consume (or waste in many cases). By the time the price of produce could go up and the availability could go down, diesel was back down to $2.50 and even though this was a net increase, it felt like a relief (to those paying the price directly), but the rest of us really managed to hardly suffer from that.
Re: [FRIAM] Locovores was: (no subject)
NIck - Which is to say, STeve, i share your angst. The next best thing to a Green Chile smothered Breakfast Burrito is a nice big helping of Ennui smothered in Angst. More flavor, less filling. Thanks to a nice wet snowfall and a cold weekend I have an excuse (besides cosmic angst) for not preparing my garden for another year of gophers, hornworms, squash bugs, and invasive weeds for another week. - sTEve FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
Re: [FRIAM] What is friam REALLY about?
Greetings, all -- For those who were wondering, it's from HMS Pinafore, with Buttercup singing to the Captain, viz: DUET -- LITTLE BUTTERCUP and CAPTAIN BUT. Things are seldom what they seem, Skim milk masquerades as cream; Highlows pass as patent leathers; Jackdaws strut in peacock's feathers. CAPT. (puzzled).Very true, So they do. BUT. Black sheep dwell in every fold; All that glitters is not gold; Storks turn out to be but logs; Bulls are but inflated frogs. CAPT. (puzzled).So they be, Frequentlee. BUT. Drops the wind and stops the mill; Turbot is ambitious brill; Gild the farthing if you will, Yet it is a farthing still. CAPT. (puzzled).Yes, I know. That is so. BUT. Though to catch your drift I'm striving, It is shady -- it is shady; I don't see at what you're driving, Mystic lady -- mystic lady. (Aside.) Stern conviction's o'er me stealing, That the mystic lady's dealing In oracular revealing. BUT. (aside). Stern conviction's o'er him stealing, That the mystic lady's dealing In oracular revealing. Yes, I know-- That is so! CAPT. Though I'm anything but clever, I could talk like that for ever: Once a cat was killed by care; Only brave deserve the fair. Very true, So they do. CAPT. Wink is often good as nod; Spoils the child who spares the rod; Thirsty lambs run foxy dangers; Dogs are found in many mangers. BUT.Frequentlee, I agree. CAPT. Paw of cat the chestnut snatches; Worn-out garments show new patches; Only count the chick that hatches; Men are grown-up catchy-catchies. BUT.Yes, I know, That is so. Words by W.S. Gilbert, Music by A. Sullivan By the way, Topsy Turvy is an interesting exploration of The Mikado on and off the stage. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0151568/ - Claiborne Booker - -Original Message- From: Nicholas Thompson nickthomp...@earthlink.net To: friam@redfish.com Sent: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 12:34 pm Subject: [FRIAM] What is friam REALLY about? My father;s favorite saying was:? Things are never what they seem, skim milk masquerades for cream!? Not particularly elegant, but he LOVED to say it. ? So it is that things are never about what they are called.? For instance, if you have ever painted a house, you know that the proceddure?should be called House Scraping, because the painting is a relatively insignificant part of the whole operation.? And vacuuming should? be called furniture displacement.? ? Last year I discovered that faculty life is really about finding high minded rationales from protecting our salary.? At the university where I worked for nearly 40 years, there is a faculty discussion list that was created so the faculty could discuss matters of the mind.? Since I left , it went completely silent.? I assumed that the list was defunct.? But when the compensation committee proposed a salary freeze as part of an austerity program, oh WOW did THAT sucker come to life! ? And in the last week, I discovered that FRIAM is really about FOOD and PUNS.? What a turnout!? What amazing richness of information and imagination!? Next I expect to discover that the NAME of FRIAM is really the name?for?a cockney method of cooking smoked pork.? ? Nick ? ? ? ? Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology, Clark University (nthomp...@clarku.edu) http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ ? ? ? FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
