Re: [FRIAM] [EXTERNAL] Re: The DEL hilarity continues

[Gillian Densmore]

What (if any) realistic benifits are there to building a computer yourself
these days?


 And does anyone have opinions or experience with Cybertron(PC)? I found
them on a random google search.

One in particular here people seem fairly content with:

http://www.amazon.com/CybertronPC-Hellion-TGM1213B-FX-6300-GeForce/dp/B00D1KWS3I


One thing that stands out is they seem to use regular parts. Some of those
seem to get  somewhat ok  reviews. A few people have said it'd be a good
idea to update the power supply.

when compared to  following guides on http://pcpartpicker.com/  making sure
I stick to systems that are around 700-800 dollars.

I more or less come up with simillar parts, and I end up spending as much
of or even way  more.

 I suspect in part because Winderz 10 is around 130-200 dollars, and intel
chips are pretty expensive.

Anecdotally years ago I couldn't tell the difference from a intel vs AMD
chip in real world day to day and gaming.


What's others peoples experience and opinions?









On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 11:37 AM, Parks, Raymond  wrote:

> This.  I just got to this thread (still active) today because I was out
> ill, but my next personal desktop will be built by me consulting with the
> Tech Report System Guide <
> http://techreport.com/review/29012/system-guide-current>.  For Gillian's
> stated purpose, I would recommend something along the line of "The Sweet
> Spot" on page 8 of the article.  It is a gaming oriented build, so the GPU
> might be overkill.
>
> Ray Parks
> Consilient Heuristician/IDART Old-Timer
> V: 505-844-4024  M: 505-238-9359  P: 505-951-6084
> NIPR: rcpa...@sandia.gov
> SIPR: rcpar...@sandia.doe.sgov.gov (send NIPR reminder)
> JWICS: dopa...@doe.ic.gov (send NIPR reminder)
>
>
>
> On Dec 13, 2015, at 1:31 PM, Gary Schiltz wrote:
>
> From what you’ve said earlier, isn’t your computer like 9 years old?
> In that case, most everything is probably so out of date that it might
> be best to just give it to some geek that likes tinkering with old
> stuff. If it were me, I would build one from scratch. Surely some nice
> geeky guy or gal would help you, and you would learn a lot in the
> process. Of course, that begs the question of what OS to put on it. MS
> gives system builders good deals on OEM versions of their OS. Or, see
> how you get along for a while with purely open source, i.e. Linux,
> OpenOffice/LibreOffice. My $.02, probably worth about that much.
>
> On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 3:00 PM, Gillian Densmore
>  wrote:
>
> Ray I think you called it  that damn thing crashed yesterday.
>
>
> Crashed (noun and adjective):
>
> Common accurence with windwos.  Symptoms: Unresponsive programs, a blue
>
> colored screen,  mouse and keybored ignored, and otherwise describing doom.
>
>
>
> Now it won't even boot.
>
>
> As I am now in the market for a new desktop because I've put about at least
>
> 300 into the DEL (see also doom, crash, and crappy computers, highblood
>
> preasure, and general dystopic state with a yen to crush the world)
>
>
> I'm disinclined to much more, if any into it.
>
>
> I'd prefer a computer that rocks.  For me that meens can play games, kick
>
> ass parts so as it's not in the damn shop costing as much or more than I
>
> initially payed for.
>
> Based on my now soured taste twards this dell  and having replaced the hard
>
> drive 3 times, It'd be preferable to have one with two  seperate hardrives
>
> so as backup is simple and easy.
>
>
>
> I saw a green tank one Amazon for 900. (with free prime shipping) from
>
> CyberPowerPC with 16gigs of ram and Nvidia of some sort that sported 2 gigs
>
> of ram
>
>
>
> In in the interest of transparency: I might prefer to replace this DEL
>
> because it, or windows iritiates me. I'd prefer to Keep the Hard drive it
>
> has (If it's still good)
>
> It's power converter and motivators are bad then that's likely at least 30,
>
> and it doesn't feel like it's aging gracefully. It might make a good little
>
> linux box, provided I can put in a new hard drive
>
>
>
> What others do if they were in my place?
>
>
> New computer? (newer parts meen less wear and tear and other issues)
>
>
> Replace the failed part (god knows where to even get one in santafe)?
>
>
> Both? (Might buy a small amount of time till new computer) :
>
>
> What kind of computer would people recomend? I've used and enjoyed Apples
> in
>
> the past. If there's a PC brand that rocks by all meens sugest some.
>
>
> 
>
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>
>
>
> 

Re: [FRIAM] [EXTERNAL] Re: The DEL hilarity continues

[Gary Schiltz]

Exactly the geeky guy I had in mind :-)

Another nice thing about building the system from scratch is that you get
to decide which parts are important enough to you to spend a lot of money
on. Since I’m not a gamer, I’d just use a motherboard with built-in
graphics (maybe most of them do) and see if it was acceptable, and spend
the money on a better display. Then, at some later point, it’s easy enough
to add on a dedicated one.

Also, getting Amazon Prime seems like a good deal to get free fast shipping
on components.

On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 1:37 PM, Parks, Raymond  wrote:

> This.  I just got to this thread (still active) today because I was out
> ill, but my next personal desktop will be built by me consulting with the
> Tech Report System Guide <
> http://techreport.com/review/29012/system-guide-current>.  For Gillian's
> stated purpose, I would recommend something along the line of "The Sweet
> Spot" on page 8 of the article.  It is a gaming oriented build, so the GPU
> might be overkill.
>
> Ray Parks
> Consilient Heuristician/IDART Old-Timer
> V: 505-844-4024  M: 505-238-9359  P: 505-951-6084
> NIPR: rcpa...@sandia.gov
> SIPR: rcpar...@sandia.doe.sgov.gov (send NIPR reminder)
> JWICS: dopa...@doe.ic.gov (send NIPR reminder)
>
>
>
> On Dec 13, 2015, at 1:31 PM, Gary Schiltz wrote:
>
> From what you’ve said earlier, isn’t your computer like 9 years old?
> In that case, most everything is probably so out of date that it might
> be best to just give it to some geek that likes tinkering with old
> stuff. If it were me, I would build one from scratch. Surely some nice
> geeky guy or gal would help you, and you would learn a lot in the
> process. Of course, that begs the question of what OS to put on it. MS
> gives system builders good deals on OEM versions of their OS. Or, see
> how you get along for a while with purely open source, i.e. Linux,
> OpenOffice/LibreOffice. My $.02, probably worth about that much.
>
> On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 3:00 PM, Gillian Densmore
>  wrote:
>
> Ray I think you called it  that damn thing crashed yesterday.
>
>
> Crashed (noun and adjective):
>
> Common accurence with windwos.  Symptoms: Unresponsive programs, a blue
>
> colored screen,  mouse and keybored ignored, and otherwise describing doom.
>
>
>
> Now it won't even boot.
>
>
> As I am now in the market for a new desktop because I've put about at least
>
> 300 into the DEL (see also doom, crash, and crappy computers, highblood
>
> preasure, and general dystopic state with a yen to crush the world)
>
>
> I'm disinclined to much more, if any into it.
>
>
> I'd prefer a computer that rocks.  For me that meens can play games, kick
>
> ass parts so as it's not in the damn shop costing as much or more than I
>
> initially payed for.
>
> Based on my now soured taste twards this dell  and having replaced the hard
>
> drive 3 times, It'd be preferable to have one with two  seperate hardrives
>
> so as backup is simple and easy.
>
>
>
> I saw a green tank one Amazon for 900. (with free prime shipping) from
>
> CyberPowerPC with 16gigs of ram and Nvidia of some sort that sported 2 gigs
>
> of ram
>
>
>
> In in the interest of transparency: I might prefer to replace this DEL
>
> because it, or windows iritiates me. I'd prefer to Keep the Hard drive it
>
> has (If it's still good)
>
> It's power converter and motivators are bad then that's likely at least 30,
>
> and it doesn't feel like it's aging gracefully. It might make a good little
>
> linux box, provided I can put in a new hard drive
>
>
>
> What others do if they were in my place?
>
>
> New computer? (newer parts meen less wear and tear and other issues)
>
>
> Replace the failed part (god knows where to even get one in santafe)?
>
>
> Both? (Might buy a small amount of time till new computer) :
>
>
> What kind of computer would people recomend? I've used and enjoyed Apples
> in
>
> the past. If there's a PC brand that rocks by all meens sugest some.
>
>
> 
>
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>
>
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Re: [FRIAM] [EXTERNAL] Re: The DEL hilarity continues

[Parks, Raymond]

This.  I just got to this thread (still active) today because I was out ill, 
but my next personal desktop will be built by me consulting with the Tech 
Report System Guide .  
For Gillian's stated purpose, I would recommend something along the line of 
"The Sweet Spot" on page 8 of the article.  It is a gaming oriented build, so 
the GPU might be overkill.

Ray Parks
Consilient Heuristician/IDART Old-Timer
V: 505-844-4024  M: 505-238-9359  P: 505-951-6084
NIPR: rcpa...@sandia.gov
SIPR: rcpar...@sandia.doe.sgov.gov (send NIPR reminder)
JWICS: dopa...@doe.ic.gov (send NIPR reminder)



On Dec 13, 2015, at 1:31 PM, Gary Schiltz wrote:

> From what you’ve said earlier, isn’t your computer like 9 years old?
> In that case, most everything is probably so out of date that it might
> be best to just give it to some geek that likes tinkering with old
> stuff. If it were me, I would build one from scratch. Surely some nice
> geeky guy or gal would help you, and you would learn a lot in the
> process. Of course, that begs the question of what OS to put on it. MS
> gives system builders good deals on OEM versions of their OS. Or, see
> how you get along for a while with purely open source, i.e. Linux,
> OpenOffice/LibreOffice. My $.02, probably worth about that much.
> 
> On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 3:00 PM, Gillian Densmore
>  wrote:
>> Ray I think you called it  that damn thing crashed yesterday.
>> 
>> Crashed (noun and adjective):
>> Common accurence with windwos.  Symptoms: Unresponsive programs, a blue
>> colored screen,  mouse and keybored ignored, and otherwise describing doom.
>> 
>> 
>> Now it won't even boot.
>> 
>> As I am now in the market for a new desktop because I've put about at least
>> 300 into the DEL (see also doom, crash, and crappy computers, highblood
>> preasure, and general dystopic state with a yen to crush the world)
>> 
>> I'm disinclined to much more, if any into it.
>> 
>> I'd prefer a computer that rocks.  For me that meens can play games, kick
>> ass parts so as it's not in the damn shop costing as much or more than I
>> initially payed for.
>> Based on my now soured taste twards this dell  and having replaced the hard
>> drive 3 times, It'd be preferable to have one with two  seperate hardrives
>> so as backup is simple and easy.
>> 
>> 
>> I saw a green tank one Amazon for 900. (with free prime shipping) from
>> CyberPowerPC with 16gigs of ram and Nvidia of some sort that sported 2 gigs
>> of ram
>> 
>> 
>> In in the interest of transparency: I might prefer to replace this DEL
>> because it, or windows iritiates me. I'd prefer to Keep the Hard drive it
>> has (If it's still good)
>> It's power converter and motivators are bad then that's likely at least 30,
>> and it doesn't feel like it's aging gracefully. It might make a good little
>> linux box, provided I can put in a new hard drive
>> 
>> 
>> What others do if they were in my place?
>> 
>> New computer? (newer parts meen less wear and tear and other issues)
>> 
>> Replace the failed part (god knows where to even get one in santafe)?
>> 
>> Both? (Might buy a small amount of time till new computer) :
>> 
>> What kind of computer would people recomend? I've used and enjoyed Apples in
>> the past. If there's a PC brand that rocks by all meens sugest some.
>> 
>> 
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> 
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com



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Re: [FRIAM] [EXTERNAL] Re: The DEL hilarity continues

[Parks, Raymond]

Answers in-line below

Ray Parks
Consilient Heuristician/IDART Old-Timer
V: 505-844-4024  M: 505-238-9359  P: 505-951-6084
NIPR: rcpa...@sandia.gov
SIPR: rcpar...@sandia.doe.sgov.gov (send NIPR reminder)
JWICS: dopa...@doe.ic.gov (send NIPR reminder)



On Dec 21, 2015, at 12:42 PM, Gillian Densmore wrote:

> What (if any) realistic benifits are there to building a computer yourself 
> these days?

1.  You may be able to get a better overall price at the cost of your labour.  
With the kind of system which you're considering, price differential between 
commodity components and the complete system is subsumed by the OEM discounts 
compared to your prices.  Enthusiast systems tend to have greater price 
differentials, especially since many spec computers simply don't have high-end 
components.
2.  You can customize the system to meet your requirements rather than some 
generic set of requirements the manufacturer thinks will fit some subset of the 
marketplace.  Some examples - using integrated graphics instead of a discrete 
GPU, using RAID 1 or 6 - are usually not possible without modifying a spec 
computer.  Once you add in the customization, the cost of building it yourself 
is frequently lower.



>  And does anyone have opinions or experience with Cybertron(PC)? I found them 
> on a random google search.
> 
> One in particular here people seem fairly content with:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/CybertronPC-Hellion-TGM1213B-FX-6300-GeForce/dp/B00D1KWS3

  You may want to do some research into complaints - I can't remember if it was 
Cybertron, iBuyPower, or Cyberpower , but I remember seeing complaints about 
one (or more) of them.  Something to do with components failing and poor 
customer support which is just as true of Dells and HPs.

> 
> One thing that stands out is they seem to use regular parts. Some of those 
> seem to get  somewhat ok  reviews. A few people have said it'd be a good idea 
> to update the power supply.

  Just like Dell or HP, when you read the fine print they reserve the right to 
substitute "equivalent" parts.  I have had hardware problems and the 
manufacturer can't determine which component my computer has, even with full 
serial numbers.

> when compared to  following guides on http://pcpartpicker.com/  making sure I 
> stick to systems that are around 700-800 dollars.
> 
> I more or less come up with simillar parts, and I end up spending as much of 
> or even way  more.
> 
>  I suspect in part because Winderz 10 is around 130-200 dollars, and intel 
> chips are pretty expensive.
> 
> Anecdotally years ago I couldn't tell the difference from a intel vs AMD chip 
> in real world day to day and gaming.

  I used to use AMD exclusively, but they have not succeeded in keeping up with 
Intel in compute performance or power saving.  




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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Re: [FRIAM] [EXTERNAL] Re: The DEL hilarity continues

[Owen Densmore]

Just looked at the systems built for between $400-$800.
http://pcpartpicker.com/guide/#X=39404,82077=d3=1
I sorted it by date because I found that several parts were no longer
available when sorting by popularity.

Also, the OS was $90 generally for Windows 8.x, and often left off the
overall price. Linux and OSX have free OS's nowadays, so was a bit
surprised at that added cost. Also the shipping sometimes said Free but now
is $4.00.

The Tech Report http://techreport.com/review/29012/system-guide-current
was superb, great way to learn how to build a system with
good explanations on each part of the builds.

I think if I were building a system, I'd start with their budget system and
upgrade a few parts.

So I'm left with a few questions:
- Once you buy Windows, do you get upgrades for free?
- How interoperable are the pieces within a given form factor? I.e. if in 3
years I can afford to amp it up a bit, should it be easy to upgrade to a
faster CPU? More RAM?, A new graphics card (assuming I don't have an
integrated one)?

My guess that's asking for a lot but possibly keeping within a given family
of devices might let me be more future-proof.

   -- Owen

On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 3:14 PM, Parks, Raymond  wrote:

> Answers in-line below
>
> Ray Parks
> Consilient Heuristician/IDART Old-Timer
> V: 505-844-4024  M: 505-238-9359  P: 505-951-6084
> NIPR: rcpa...@sandia.gov
> SIPR: rcpar...@sandia.doe.sgov.gov (send NIPR reminder)
> JWICS: dopa...@doe.ic.gov (send NIPR reminder)
>
>
>
> On Dec 21, 2015, at 12:42 PM, Gillian Densmore wrote:
>
> What (if any) realistic benifits are there to building a computer yourself
> these days?
>
>
> 1.  You may be able to get a better overall price at the cost of your
> labour.  With the kind of system which you're considering, price
> differential between commodity components and the complete system is
> subsumed by the OEM discounts compared to your prices.  Enthusiast systems
> tend to have greater price differentials, especially since many spec
> computers simply don't have high-end components.
> 2.  You can customize the system to meet your requirements rather than
> some generic set of requirements the manufacturer thinks will fit some
> subset of the marketplace.  Some examples - using integrated graphics
> instead of a discrete GPU, using RAID 1 or 6 - are usually not possible
> without modifying a spec computer.  Once you add in the customization, the
> cost of building it yourself is frequently lower.
>
>
>
>  And does anyone have opinions or experience with Cybertron(PC)? I found
> them on a random google search.
>
> One in particular here people seem fairly content with:
>
>
> http://www.amazon.com/CybertronPC-Hellion-TGM1213B-FX-6300-GeForce/dp/B00D1KWS3
>
>
>   You may want to do some research into complaints - I can't remember if
> it was Cybertron, iBuyPower, or Cyberpower , but I remember seeing
> complaints about one (or more) of them.  Something to do with components
> failing and poor customer support which is just as true of Dells and HPs.
>
>
> One thing that stands out is they seem to use regular parts. Some of those
> seem to get  somewhat ok  reviews. A few people have said it'd be a good
> idea to update the power supply.
>
>
>   Just like Dell or HP, when you read the fine print they reserve the
> right to substitute "equivalent" parts.  I have had hardware problems and
> the manufacturer can't determine which component my computer has, even with
> full serial numbers.
>
> when compared to  following guides on http://pcpartpicker.com/  making
> sure I stick to systems that are around 700-800 dollars.
>
> I more or less come up with simillar parts, and I end up spending as much
> of or even way  more.
>
>  I suspect in part because Winderz 10 is around 130-200 dollars, and intel
> chips are pretty expensive.
>
> Anecdotally years ago I couldn't tell the difference from a intel vs AMD
> chip in real world day to day and gaming.
>
>
>   I used to use AMD exclusively, but they have not succeeded in keeping up
> with Intel in compute performance or power saving.
>
>
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com