Re: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis Philosophy
It used to bug my British parents that Germany's factories got rebuilt out of the Marshall Plan deal while Britain's, that were also heavily bombed, didn't. Think of the impact that must have had on the economic competitiveness of the two countries for a long time. However, as a means to avoid any repeat of the WWI reparations disaster (ie the rise of the Third Reich) it probably was a good idea at the time. I'm with Paul Krugman http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/06/opinion/paul-krugman-ending-greeces-bleeding.html?ref=opinion_r=0. I wonder if Tsipiras would ever play a Putin card. Greece is a member of NATO which presumably would remain unchanged with a Grexit but who knows what economic commitments might ensue. However, it was suggested (perhaps by Krugman) that Russia's economy may itself not be in a very fit state to supply any meaningful benefit to Greece. But I don't think the EU/US should get complacent over any of this. Robert C On 7/7/15 10:13 AM, Pamela McCorduck wrote: Post World War II Germany was horrible for a couple of years with exactly the kinds of problems you mention, Nick: penicillin could only be had on the black market (i.e., from unscrupulous GIs); food was scarce; labor was mostly women moving bricks from bombed buildings by hand (die Trummelfrauen). Then came the Marshall Plan. But Thomas Piketty has complained (to one of the major German newspapers yesterday) that Germany was forgiven its debts in 1950, when it was clear the country could never pay it off—only then came the Wirtschaftswunder, the Economic Miracle. Plenty of blame to go around here. And if Greece is unmoored from Europe, you can see Putin moving in—naval bases, missiles, even. He’s a nasty character to get into bed with, but when no one else offers you a blanket... On Jul 6, 2015, at 10:45 PM, Nick Thompson nickthomp...@earthlink.net mailto:nickthomp...@earthlink.net wrote: Marcus, Perhaps! Everything I hear suggests that even tho withdrawals are limited to 60 bucks a day, the Greek banks will go down this week. Am I missing something? I assume that a lot of people are going to starve, die of heat stroke in buildings that weren’t designed for no air-conditioning, in hospitals that don’t have antibiotics, etc. etc. I assume there will be a blossoming of far right and far left parties. Rioting, and bloodshed? Why WOULDN’T there be? What do you know that I don’t know? Think of what might have happened in post WWII Germany without the Marshall Plan. N Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ http://home.earthlink.net/%7Enickthompson/naturaldesigns/ *From:*Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com]*On Behalf Of*Marcus Daniels *Sent:*Monday, July 06, 2015 11:16 PM *To:*The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group *Subject:*Re: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis Philosophy “Anybody who lived through wwII knows that a heap of trouble can follow when a whole people is thrown to the dogs, as was the German population after WWI. Or for that matter, the American South after the Civil War. I am hoping for a positive response from the EU at this point.” Could Greece better grow its economy with autonomy? Is it the same thing as being thrown to the dogs? Marcus FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribehttp://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com -- Cirrillian Web Development Santa Fe, NM http://cirrillian.com 281-989-6272 (cell) FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis Philosophy
If Greece is unmoored from the Eurozone, there's still NATO. The sharp end of the stick on that isn't Germany. From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Pamela McCorduck Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2015 10:13 AM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis Philosophy Post World War II Germany was horrible for a couple of years with exactly the kinds of problems you mention, Nick: penicillin could only be had on the black market (i.e., from unscrupulous GIs); food was scarce; labor was mostly women moving bricks from bombed buildings by hand (die Trummelfrauen). Then came the Marshall Plan. But Thomas Piketty has complained (to one of the major German newspapers yesterday) that Germany was forgiven its debts in 1950, when it was clear the country could never pay it off-only then came the Wirtschaftswunder, the Economic Miracle. Plenty of blame to go around here. And if Greece is unmoored from Europe, you can see Putin moving in-naval bases, missiles, even. He's a nasty character to get into bed with, but when no one else offers you a blanket... On Jul 6, 2015, at 10:45 PM, Nick Thompson nickthomp...@earthlink.netmailto:nickthomp...@earthlink.net wrote: Marcus, Perhaps! Everything I hear suggests that even tho withdrawals are limited to 60 bucks a day, the Greek banks will go down this week. Am I missing something? I assume that a lot of people are going to starve, die of heat stroke in buildings that weren't designed for no air-conditioning, in hospitals that don't have antibiotics, etc. etc. I assume there will be a blossoming of far right and far left parties. Rioting, and bloodshed? Why WOULDN'T there be? What do you know that I don't know? Think of what might have happened in post WWII Germany without the Marshall Plan. N Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels Sent: Monday, July 06, 2015 11:16 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis Philosophy Anybody who lived through wwII knows that a heap of trouble can follow when a whole people is thrown to the dogs, as was the German population after WWI. Or for that matter, the American South after the Civil War. I am hoping for a positive response from the EU at this point. Could Greece better grow its economy with autonomy? Is it the same thing as being thrown to the dogs? Marcus FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis Philosophy
Post World War II Germany was horrible for a couple of years with exactly the kinds of problems you mention, Nick: penicillin could only be had on the black market (i.e., from unscrupulous GIs); food was scarce; labor was mostly women moving bricks from bombed buildings by hand (die Trummelfrauen). Then came the Marshall Plan. But Thomas Piketty has complained (to one of the major German newspapers yesterday) that Germany was forgiven its debts in 1950, when it was clear the country could never pay it off—only then came the Wirtschaftswunder, the Economic Miracle. Plenty of blame to go around here. And if Greece is unmoored from Europe, you can see Putin moving in—naval bases, missiles, even. He’s a nasty character to get into bed with, but when no one else offers you a blanket... On Jul 6, 2015, at 10:45 PM, Nick Thompson nickthomp...@earthlink.net wrote: Marcus, Perhaps! Everything I hear suggests that even tho withdrawals are limited to 60 bucks a day, the Greek banks will go down this week. Am I missing something? I assume that a lot of people are going to starve, die of heat stroke in buildings that weren’t designed for no air-conditioning, in hospitals that don’t have antibiotics, etc. etc. I assume there will be a blossoming of far right and far left parties. Rioting, and bloodshed? Why WOULDN’T there be? What do you know that I don’t know? Think of what might have happened in post WWII Germany without the Marshall Plan. N Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels Sent: Monday, July 06, 2015 11:16 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis Philosophy “Anybody who lived through wwII knows that a heap of trouble can follow when a whole people is thrown to the dogs, as was the German population after WWI. Or for that matter, the American South after the Civil War. I am hoping for a positive response from the EU at this point.” Could Greece better grow its economy with autonomy? Is it the same thing as being thrown to the dogs? Marcus FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis Philosophy
On 07/07/2015 09:13 AM, Pamela McCorduck wrote: Plenty of blame to go around here. And if Greece is unmoored from Europe, you can see Putin moving in—naval bases, missiles, even. He’s a nasty character to get into bed with, but when no one else offers you a blanket... Greece Can Join BRICS as a Growing Economy - Official http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150707/1024309291.html -- glen ep ropella -- 971-255-2847 FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis Philosophy
Hi All, The argument that the relation of Greece, Spain, and Italy, and to some extent France, to Germany and Holland within the EU is analogous to that of the southern-agrarian states to the northern-industrial states in the US since the revolutionary war is one that I remember first seeing by Paul Krugman long ago, I think in the book of lectures Geography and Trade. http://www.amazon.com/Geography-Trade-Gaston-Eyskens-Lectures/dp/0262610868/ref=la_B000APS32M_1_33?s=booksie=UTF8qid=1436270724sr=1-33refinements=p_82%3AB000APS32M The initial form of the argument, if I remember correctly, had more to do with development economics, production of real goods, and market power and ability to dictate the terms of trade. Krugman argued that if the US South had not been at a disadvantage to the US North, they would have instead been at a disadvantage to England (had the secession succeeded), and no better off or really even much different than they wound up after the secession failed. There are still brief snippets of this view that come up in Krugman's NYT column, but the modern versions that I hear from him have much more to do with the specifics of monetary mechanisms such as deliberate currency devaluation to keep balances of payments within manageable levels. I would not be able to say that Krugman's position on this today is the same as it was coming into the 1990s. Nor do I have enough of a sense of macroeconomics to have an opinion of my own whether he is right. But a more systematic layout of the argument than brief columns and emails is something I have found helpful. This was the book that first got me reading Krugman, when a physics-professor friend recommended it to me as one of the few economics sources for the layman that he thought he could understand. Eric On Jul 6, 2015, at 8:43 PM, Gary Schiltz wrote: The term “states' rights” refers to the fervent belief, especially among conservatives in the USA, that US states are granted by the US Constitution a large amount of autonomy from the US federal government. A corrolary to this is that the US federal government should have very limited powers, and that the majority of power is vested in the individual states. This type of conservatism has a large hold over the American South, thus my earlier tongue-in-cheek message about Mississippi and Alabama printing their own money with confederate flags on them. I have assumed that whoever started this thread was drawing a parallel between the (states as part of the USA) and (Greece as part of the European Union). Greece has basically told the EU to go screw itself, as it can’t make its loan repayments on time. Come on Nick, I know this stuff and I live in a South American country. Y’all need to get out more, maybe go to a square dance or do a little cow tipping. JUST KIDDING On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 9:06 PM, Nick Thompson nickthomp...@earthlink.net wrote: To be absolutely honest, I don’t know what The EU now faces state's rights. Means. Can somebody explain? N Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Alfredo Covaleda Vélez Sent: Monday, July 06, 2015 1:04 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis Philosophy 2015-07-06 11:46 GMT-05:00 Owen Densmore o...@backspaces.net: I love the No vote. The EU now faces state's rights. Where I have seen this before? Just fill the blank: The __ now faces state's rights. -- Owen On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 7:23 PM, Marcus Daniels mar...@snoutfarm.com wrote: When it comes to U.S. revenue vs. spending, perhaps some states in the red (as opposed to red states!) should worry about getting cut off by Washington? Now, New Mexico has a certain amount of visibility to Washington, but what about Mississippi, Alabama and Kentucky? One might imagine North Dakota could turn it around with fracking tax revenue.One can imagine that Greeks probably don’t like being treated like Kentucky. I’m sure Kentucky is nice, and they wouldn’t like to switch to their own currency. Or maybe they would! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_taxation_and_spending_by_state From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Robert J. Cordingley Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2015 5:06 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis Philosophy As part of my continuing search for understanding how the world works and the role of philosophy... 1st question: It's been pointed out in a recent Washington Post article that the fundamental problem in the current Greek crisis was epitomized in Monty Python's
Re: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis Philosophy
O Anybody who lived through wwII knows that a heap of trouble can follow when a whole people is thrown to the dogs, as was the German population after WWI. Or for that matter, the American South after the Civil War. I am hoping for a positive response from the EU at this point. N Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Owen Densmore Sent: Monday, July 06, 2015 12:46 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis Philosophy I love the No vote. The EU now faces state's rights. -- Owen On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 7:23 PM, Marcus Daniels mar...@snoutfarm.com mailto:mar...@snoutfarm.com wrote: When it comes to U.S. revenue vs. spending, perhaps some states in the red (as opposed to red states!) should worry about getting cut off by Washington? Now, New Mexico has a certain amount of visibility to Washington, but what about Mississippi, Alabama and Kentucky? One might imagine North Dakota could turn it around with fracking tax revenue.One can imagine that Greeks probably don’t like being treated like Kentucky. I’m sure Kentucky is nice, and they wouldn’t like to switch to their own currency. Or maybe they would! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_taxation_and_spending_by_state From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com ] On Behalf Of Robert J. Cordingley Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2015 5:06 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis Philosophy As part of my continuing search for understanding how the world works and the role of philosophy... 1st question: It's been pointed out in a recent Washington Post article http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/07/04/a-hilarious-monty-python-sketch-explains-why-greece-is-in-a-huge-crisis/ that the fundamental problem in the current Greek crisis was epitomized in Monty Python's the Philosopher's Football Match (Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Philosophers%27_Football_Match / Youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ur5fGSBsfq8 ) between Greece and Germany. Is it true? 2nd question, why does it seem that such a sketch works in the UK but never in the US? Robert C -- Cirrillian Web Development Santa Fe, NM http://cirrillian.com 281-989-6272 tel:281-989-6272 (cell) FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis Philosophy
I love the No vote. The EU now faces state's rights. -- Owen On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 7:23 PM, Marcus Daniels mar...@snoutfarm.com wrote: When it comes to U.S. revenue vs. spending, perhaps some states in the red (as opposed to red states!) should worry about getting cut off by Washington? Now, New Mexico has a certain amount of visibility to Washington, but what about Mississippi, Alabama and Kentucky? One might imagine North Dakota could turn it around with fracking tax revenue.One can imagine that Greeks probably don’t like being treated like Kentucky. I’m sure Kentucky is nice, and they wouldn’t like to switch to their own currency. Or maybe they would! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_taxation_and_spending_by_state *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Robert J. Cordingley *Sent:* Sunday, July 05, 2015 5:06 PM *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group *Subject:* [FRIAM] Greek Crisis Philosophy As part of my continuing search for understanding how the world works and the role of philosophy... 1st question: It's been pointed out in a recent Washington Post article http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/07/04/a-hilarious-monty-python-sketch-explains-why-greece-is-in-a-huge-crisis/ that the fundamental problem in the current Greek crisis was epitomized in Monty Python's the Philosopher's Football Match (Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Philosophers%27_Football_Match / Youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ur5fGSBsfq8) between Greece and Germany. Is it true? 2nd question, why does it seem that such a sketch works in the UK but never in the US? Robert C -- Cirrillian Web Development Santa Fe, NM http://cirrillian.com 281-989-6272 (cell) FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis Philosophy
2015-07-06 11:46 GMT-05:00 Owen Densmore o...@backspaces.net: I love the No vote. The EU now faces state's rights. Where I have seen this before? Just fill the blank: The __ now faces state's rights. -- Owen On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 7:23 PM, Marcus Daniels mar...@snoutfarm.com wrote: When it comes to U.S. revenue vs. spending, perhaps some states in the red (as opposed to red states!) should worry about getting cut off by Washington? Now, New Mexico has a certain amount of visibility to Washington, but what about Mississippi, Alabama and Kentucky? One might imagine North Dakota could turn it around with fracking tax revenue.One can imagine that Greeks probably don’t like being treated like Kentucky. I’m sure Kentucky is nice, and they wouldn’t like to switch to their own currency. Or maybe they would! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_taxation_and_spending_by_state *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Robert J. Cordingley *Sent:* Sunday, July 05, 2015 5:06 PM *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group *Subject:* [FRIAM] Greek Crisis Philosophy As part of my continuing search for understanding how the world works and the role of philosophy... 1st question: It's been pointed out in a recent Washington Post article http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/07/04/a-hilarious-monty-python-sketch-explains-why-greece-is-in-a-huge-crisis/ that the fundamental problem in the current Greek crisis was epitomized in Monty Python's the Philosopher's Football Match (Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Philosophers%27_Football_Match / Youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ur5fGSBsfq8) between Greece and Germany. Is it true? 2nd question, why does it seem that such a sketch works in the UK but never in the US? Robert C -- Cirrillian Web Development Santa Fe, NM http://cirrillian.com 281-989-6272 (cell) FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com -- Agrónomo, IT, Candidato a MSc en Desarrollo Sostenible y Medio Ambiente +57 3154531383 FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis Philosophy
Ain’t got no idear, Alfred'a. Could’a been over in that there country called ‘Merika. Maybe next they will print their own money in Mississippi and Alabama. They could even print a confederate flag on it. On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 12:04 PM, Alfredo Covaleda Vélez alfredocoval...@gmail.com wrote: 2015-07-06 11:46 GMT-05:00 Owen Densmore o...@backspaces.net: I love the No vote. The EU now faces state's rights. Where I have seen this before? Just fill the blank: The __ now faces state's rights. -- Owen On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 7:23 PM, Marcus Daniels mar...@snoutfarm.com wrote: When it comes to U.S. revenue vs. spending, perhaps some states in the red (as opposed to red states!) should worry about getting cut off by Washington? Now, New Mexico has a certain amount of visibility to Washington, but what about Mississippi, Alabama and Kentucky? One might imagine North Dakota could turn it around with fracking tax revenue.One can imagine that Greeks probably don’t like being treated like Kentucky. I’m sure Kentucky is nice, and they wouldn’t like to switch to their own currency. Or maybe they would! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_taxation_and_spending_by_state From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Robert J. Cordingley Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2015 5:06 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis Philosophy As part of my continuing search for understanding how the world works and the role of philosophy... 1st question: It's been pointed out in a recent Washington Post article that the fundamental problem in the current Greek crisis was epitomized in Monty Python's the Philosopher's Football Match (Wikipedia / Youtube) between Greece and Germany. Is it true? 2nd question, why does it seem that such a sketch works in the UK but never in the US? Robert C -- Cirrillian Web Development Santa Fe, NM http://cirrillian.com 281-989-6272 (cell) FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com -- Agrónomo, IT, Candidato a MSc en Desarrollo Sostenible y Medio Ambiente +57 3154531383 FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis Philosophy
To be absolutely honest, I don’t know what The EU now faces state's rights. Means. Can somebody explain? N Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Alfredo Covaleda Vélez Sent: Monday, July 06, 2015 1:04 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis Philosophy 2015-07-06 11:46 GMT-05:00 Owen Densmore o...@backspaces.net mailto:o...@backspaces.net : I love the No vote. The EU now faces state's rights. Where I have seen this before? Just fill the blank: The __ now faces state's rights. -- Owen On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 7:23 PM, Marcus Daniels mar...@snoutfarm.com mailto:mar...@snoutfarm.com wrote: When it comes to U.S. revenue vs. spending, perhaps some states in the red (as opposed to red states!) should worry about getting cut off by Washington? Now, New Mexico has a certain amount of visibility to Washington, but what about Mississippi, Alabama and Kentucky? One might imagine North Dakota could turn it around with fracking tax revenue.One can imagine that Greeks probably don’t like being treated like Kentucky. I’m sure Kentucky is nice, and they wouldn’t like to switch to their own currency. Or maybe they would! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_taxation_and_spending_by_state From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com ] On Behalf Of Robert J. Cordingley Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2015 5:06 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis Philosophy As part of my continuing search for understanding how the world works and the role of philosophy... 1st question: It's been pointed out in a recent Washington Post article http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/07/04/a-hilarious-monty-python-sketch-explains-why-greece-is-in-a-huge-crisis/ that the fundamental problem in the current Greek crisis was epitomized in Monty Python's the Philosopher's Football Match (Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Philosophers%27_Football_Match / Youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ur5fGSBsfq8 ) between Greece and Germany. Is it true? 2nd question, why does it seem that such a sketch works in the UK but never in the US? Robert C -- Cirrillian Web Development Santa Fe, NM http://cirrillian.com 281-989-6272 tel:281-989-6272 (cell) FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com -- Agrónomo, IT, Candidato a MSc en Desarrollo Sostenible y Medio Ambiente +57 3154531383 FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis Philosophy
The term “states' rights” refers to the fervent belief, especially among conservatives in the USA, that US states are granted by the US Constitution a large amount of autonomy from the US federal government. A corrolary to this is that the US federal government should have very limited powers, and that the majority of power is vested in the individual states. This type of conservatism has a large hold over the American South, thus my earlier tongue-in-cheek message about Mississippi and Alabama printing their own money with confederate flags on them. I have assumed that whoever started this thread was drawing a parallel between the (states as part of the USA) and (Greece as part of the European Union). Greece has basically told the EU to go screw itself, as it can’t make its loan repayments on time. Come on Nick, I know this stuff and I live in a South American country. Y’all need to get out more, maybe go to a square dance or do a little cow tipping. JUST KIDDING On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 9:06 PM, Nick Thompson nickthomp...@earthlink.net wrote: To be absolutely honest, I don’t know what The EU now faces state's rights. Means. Can somebody explain? N Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Alfredo Covaleda Vélez *Sent:* Monday, July 06, 2015 1:04 PM *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis Philosophy 2015-07-06 11:46 GMT-05:00 Owen Densmore o...@backspaces.net: I love the No vote. The EU now faces state's rights. Where I have seen this before? Just fill the blank: The __ now faces state's rights. -- Owen On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 7:23 PM, Marcus Daniels mar...@snoutfarm.com wrote: When it comes to U.S. revenue vs. spending, perhaps some states in the red (as opposed to red states!) should worry about getting cut off by Washington? Now, New Mexico has a certain amount of visibility to Washington, but what about Mississippi, Alabama and Kentucky? One might imagine North Dakota could turn it around with fracking tax revenue.One can imagine that Greeks probably don’t like being treated like Kentucky. I’m sure Kentucky is nice, and they wouldn’t like to switch to their own currency. Or maybe they would! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_taxation_and_spending_by_state *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Robert J. Cordingley *Sent:* Sunday, July 05, 2015 5:06 PM *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group *Subject:* [FRIAM] Greek Crisis Philosophy As part of my continuing search for understanding how the world works and the role of philosophy... 1st question: It's been pointed out in a recent Washington Post article http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/07/04/a-hilarious-monty-python-sketch-explains-why-greece-is-in-a-huge-crisis/ that the fundamental problem in the current Greek crisis was epitomized in Monty Python's the Philosopher's Football Match (Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Philosophers%27_Football_Match / Youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ur5fGSBsfq8) between Greece and Germany. Is it true? 2nd question, why does it seem that such a sketch works in the UK but never in the US? Robert C -- Cirrillian Web Development Santa Fe, NM http://cirrillian.com 281-989-6272 (cell) FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com -- Agrónomo, IT, Candidato a MSc en Desarrollo Sostenible y Medio Ambiente +57 3154531383 FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis Philosophy
Gary, Yes. Sorry. I did know all of that. I just couldn’t make the metaphor work. I suppose a parallel could exist in the fact that most of the states that would wish to secede from our union are in fact heavily bankrolled by it. I am probably working too hard at this. I take metaphors very seriously. N Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Gary Schiltz Sent: Monday, July 06, 2015 10:44 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis Philosophy The term “states' rights” refers to the fervent belief, especially among conservatives in the USA, that US states are granted by the US Constitution a large amount of autonomy from the US federal government. A corrolary to this is that the US federal government should have very limited powers, and that the majority of power is vested in the individual states. This type of conservatism has a large hold over the American South, thus my earlier tongue-in-cheek message about Mississippi and Alabama printing their own money with confederate flags on them. I have assumed that whoever started this thread was drawing a parallel between the (states as part of the USA) and (Greece as part of the European Union). Greece has basically told the EU to go screw itself, as it can’t make its loan repayments on time. Come on Nick, I know this stuff and I live in a South American country. Y’all need to get out more, maybe go to a square dance or do a little cow tipping. JUST KIDDING On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 9:06 PM, Nick Thompson nickthomp...@earthlink.net mailto:nickthomp...@earthlink.net wrote: To be absolutely honest, I don’t know what The EU now faces state's rights. Means. Can somebody explain? N Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com ] On Behalf Of Alfredo Covaleda Vélez Sent: Monday, July 06, 2015 1:04 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis Philosophy 2015-07-06 11:46 GMT-05:00 Owen Densmore o...@backspaces.net mailto:o...@backspaces.net : I love the No vote. The EU now faces state's rights. Where I have seen this before? Just fill the blank: The __ now faces state's rights. -- Owen On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 7:23 PM, Marcus Daniels mar...@snoutfarm.com mailto:mar...@snoutfarm.com wrote: When it comes to U.S. revenue vs. spending, perhaps some states in the red (as opposed to red states!) should worry about getting cut off by Washington? Now, New Mexico has a certain amount of visibility to Washington, but what about Mississippi, Alabama and Kentucky? One might imagine North Dakota could turn it around with fracking tax revenue.One can imagine that Greeks probably don’t like being treated like Kentucky. I’m sure Kentucky is nice, and they wouldn’t like to switch to their own currency. Or maybe they would! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_taxation_and_spending_by_state From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com ] On Behalf Of Robert J. Cordingley Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2015 5:06 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis Philosophy As part of my continuing search for understanding how the world works and the role of philosophy... 1st question: It's been pointed out in a recent Washington Post article http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/07/04/a-hilarious-monty-python-sketch-explains-why-greece-is-in-a-huge-crisis/ that the fundamental problem in the current Greek crisis was epitomized in Monty Python's the Philosopher's Football Match (Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Philosophers%27_Football_Match / Youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ur5fGSBsfq8 ) between Greece and Germany. Is it true? 2nd question, why does it seem that such a sketch works in the UK but never in the US? Robert C -- Cirrillian Web Development Santa Fe, NM http://cirrillian.com 281-989-6272 tel:281-989-6272 (cell) FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis Philosophy
Marcus, Perhaps! Everything I hear suggests that even tho withdrawals are limited to 60 bucks a day, the Greek banks will go down this week. Am I missing something? I assume that a lot of people are going to starve, die of heat stroke in buildings that weren’t designed for no air-conditioning, in hospitals that don’t have antibiotics, etc. etc. I assume there will be a blossoming of far right and far left parties. Rioting, and bloodshed? Why WOULDN’T there be? What do you know that I don’t know? Think of what might have happened in post WWII Germany without the Marshall Plan. N Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology Clark University http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels Sent: Monday, July 06, 2015 11:16 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis Philosophy “Anybody who lived through wwII knows that a heap of trouble can follow when a whole people is thrown to the dogs, as was the German population after WWI. Or for that matter, the American South after the Civil War. I am hoping for a positive response from the EU at this point.” Could Greece better grow its economy with autonomy? Is it the same thing as being thrown to the dogs? Marcus FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis Philosophy
“Anybody who lived through wwII knows that a heap of trouble can follow when a whole people is thrown to the dogs, as was the German population after WWI. Or for that matter, the American South after the Civil War. I am hoping for a positive response from the EU at this point.” Could Greece better grow its economy with autonomy? Is it the same thing as being thrown to the dogs? Marcus FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis Philosophy
It doesn't work in the United States because we are waiting for the soccer match to finish, and wondering why the football game never starts. On Sunday, July 5, 2015, Robert J. Cordingley rob...@cirrillian.com wrote: As part of my continuing search for understanding how the world works and the role of philosophy... 1st question: It's been pointed out in a recent Washington Post article http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/07/04/a-hilarious-monty-python-sketch-explains-why-greece-is-in-a-huge-crisis/ that the fundamental problem in the current Greek crisis was epitomized in Monty Python's the Philosopher's Football Match (Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Philosophers%27_Football_Match / Youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ur5fGSBsfq8) between Greece and Germany. Is it true? 2nd question, why does it seem that such a sketch works in the UK but never in the US? Robert C -- Cirrillian Web Development Santa Fe, NMhttp://cirrillian.com 281-989-6272 (cell) FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis Philosophy
Quite funny. Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Phone (505) 670-9918 On Jul 5, 2015 5:06 PM, Robert J. Cordingley rob...@cirrillian.com wrote: As part of my continuing search for understanding how the world works and the role of philosophy... 1st question: It's been pointed out in a recent Washington Post article http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/07/04/a-hilarious-monty-python-sketch-explains-why-greece-is-in-a-huge-crisis/ that the fundamental problem in the current Greek crisis was epitomized in Monty Python's the Philosopher's Football Match (Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Philosophers%27_Football_Match / Youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ur5fGSBsfq8) between Greece and Germany. Is it true? 2nd question, why does it seem that such a sketch works in the UK but never in the US? Robert C -- Cirrillian Web Development Santa Fe, NMhttp://cirrillian.com281-989-6272 (cell) FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
[FRIAM] Greek Crisis Philosophy
As part of my continuing search for understanding how the world works and the role of philosophy... 1st question: It's been pointed out in a recent Washington Post article http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/07/04/a-hilarious-monty-python-sketch-explains-why-greece-is-in-a-huge-crisis/ that the fundamental problem in the current Greek crisis was epitomized in Monty Python's the Philosopher's Football Match (Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Philosophers%27_Football_Match / Youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ur5fGSBsfq8) between Greece and Germany. Is it true? 2nd question, why does it seem that such a sketch works in the UK but never in the US? Robert C -- Cirrillian Web Development Santa Fe, NM http://cirrillian.com 281-989-6272 (cell) FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
Re: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis Philosophy
When it comes to U.S. revenue vs. spending, perhaps some states in the red (as opposed to red states!) should worry about getting cut off by Washington? Now, New Mexico has a certain amount of visibility to Washington, but what about Mississippi, Alabama and Kentucky? One might imagine North Dakota could turn it around with fracking tax revenue.One can imagine that Greeks probably don’t like being treated like Kentucky. I’m sure Kentucky is nice, and they wouldn’t like to switch to their own currency. Or maybe they would! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_taxation_and_spending_by_state From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Robert J. Cordingley Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2015 5:06 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Subject: [FRIAM] Greek Crisis Philosophy As part of my continuing search for understanding how the world works and the role of philosophy... 1st question: It's been pointed out in a recent Washington Post articlehttp://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/07/04/a-hilarious-monty-python-sketch-explains-why-greece-is-in-a-huge-crisis/ that the fundamental problem in the current Greek crisis was epitomized in Monty Python's the Philosopher's Football Match (Wikipediahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Philosophers%27_Football_Match / Youtubehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ur5fGSBsfq8) between Greece and Germany. Is it true? 2nd question, why does it seem that such a sketch works in the UK but never in the US? Robert C -- Cirrillian Web Development Santa Fe, NM http://cirrillian.com 281-989-6272 (cell) FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
