Re: [FRIAM] election eve

[Gary Schiltz]

I think the rural vs urban split is one of the main factors. Rural people
tend to be a lot more independent, less educated, and perhaps by a bit of
an inferiority complex, more prone to denying science (think climate change
and the Paris Accord). I also believe we Americans have a sense of
entitlement, with part of the national mythos being that old expression
"pull yourself up by your bootstraps" leading to belief that we have earned
their special place in the world. Trump really plays that up. There is also
certainly a mostly hidden undercurrent of racism (belief that black people
generally are lazy - Google for "welfare queen") and cultural jingoism
(belief that immigrants should assimilate and forget their home culture).
And then there is distrust of the federal government and anything that
might be considered socialist. I think we may ultimately discover that talk
by the most liberal faction of the Democratic party may have scared a few
centrists and invigorated the Republicans. There are other factors, but
those are some of the strongest. Sad to say, but Trump may actually more
accurately represent these values in us Americans.

On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 3:46 PM Jochen Fromm  wrote:

> Do you have an idea why so many people have voted for Trump despite all he
> has done? The cultural difference between the liberal urban centers and the
> conservative countryside can not be the only reason.
>
> Is it FoxNews propaganda, racism or another unknown factor ?
>
>
>  Original message 
> From: Frank Wimberly 
> Date: 11/5/20 21:08 (GMT+01:00)
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve
>
> A large percentage of the variance between "us" and "them" seems to be
> living in a city vs living in the country.  Not all but a lot.
>
> ---
> Frank C. Wimberly
> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>
> 505 670-9918
> Santa Fe, NM
>
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2020, 12:59 PM Marcus Daniels  wrote:
>
>> At some level I think we all recognize that the United States has been a
>> predatory nation.   For centuries, the influential in this country arranged
>> to take the things they wanted, even people.We recognize that we have a
>> better lifestyle than people elsewhere in the world.   Trump releases the
>> shame that might cause us to consider repairing the harm we have done or at
>> least work harder to justify our special status.   No, it is enough to join
>> Team Trump and call those people names.   My dog would have the instinct to
>> herd them, and she would be right.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Friam  *On Behalf Of *Robert J.
>> Cordingley
>> *Sent:* Thursday, November 5, 2020 11:08 AM
>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
>> friam@redfish.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] election eve
>>
>>
>>
>> NYT Nicholas Kristof ended his OpEd
>> <https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/04/opinion/donald-trump-election-2020.html>
>> this morning with a paragraph that summarized my feeling entirely:
>>
>> "So as I fret about Trump’s efforts to do Russia’s work and delegitimize
>> this election, I also keep wrestling with this question: How is it that so
>> many millions of Americans watched Trump for four years, suffered the pain
>> of his bungling of Covid-19, listened to his stream of lies, observed his
>> attacks on American institutions — and then voted for him in greater
>> numbers than before?"
>>
>> Last count per NYT, there have been 68,644,941 votes (47.8%) this morning
>> for Trump. So many voters, that apparently don't see {choose your favorite
>> crisis} as a key issue either, it boggles my mind. What have those
>> movements done wrong? If I didn't understand how difficult it is to steal
>> an election (detailed in another NYT oped today), I might even say there
>> was something fishy.
>>
>> Suggestions?
>>
>> Robert C
>>
>> On 11/4/20 5:59 PM, Eric Charles wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 4, 2020 at 5:31 PM Jochen Fromm  wrote:
>>
>> Both cnn.com and foxnews.com report Biden will win Michigan and
>> Wisconsin, and if he wins Arizona and Nevada too where he leads, he has 270
>> electoral votes. This means it looks good for Biden! All here hope that Joe
>> wins.
>>
>>
>>
>> -J.
>>
>>
>>
>>  Original message 
>>
>> From: uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ 
>>
>> Date: 11/4/20 19:18 (GMT+01:00)
>>
>> To: friam@redfish.com
>>
>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve
>>
>>
>>
>>

Re: [FRIAM] election eve

[thompnickson2]

"It all depends on what the meaning if 'is' is."   W. J. Clinton [Bzt!]

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
thompnicks...@gmail.com
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
 


-Original Message-
From: Friam  On Behalf Of u?l? ???
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 1:54 PM
To: friam@redfish.com
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

It would be a great way to actually learn things if, rather than deleting it, 
it rejected it. So, you could formulate lots of assertions, toss them at the 
machine and it would tell you which ones are crazy and which ones might be 
closer to consensus truth. You might start with all politicians are lizard 
people. [Bt] OK. All politicians are Jews. [Bzzzt] Hm. All politicians are 
liars. [Ding] Pluto is a planet. [Bzzzt] Pluto is an asteroid. [Bzzzt] Pluto is 
a Roman god. [Ding] Roman gods are planets. [Bzzzt] Roman gods are asteroids. 
[Bzzzt] Sigh. We need to parallelize this thing.

On 11/5/20 12:40 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> I like to imagine an open source platform that Facebook would be 
> required to use that would detect and label (or delete) crazy things.   Like 
> a spelling corrector but for non-facts and confused thinking.   Heavy on 
> automated natural language processing, but with human oversight and an audit 
> trail.

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Re: [FRIAM] election eve

[uǝlƃ ↙↙↙]

It would be a great way to actually learn things if, rather than deleting it, 
it rejected it. So, you could formulate lots of assertions, toss them at the 
machine and it would tell you which ones are crazy and which ones might be 
closer to consensus truth. You might start with all politicians are lizard 
people. [Bt] OK. All politicians are Jews. [Bzzzt] Hm. All politicians are 
liars. [Ding] Pluto is a planet. [Bzzzt] Pluto is an asteroid. [Bzzzt] Pluto is 
a Roman god. [Ding] Roman gods are planets. [Bzzzt] Roman gods are asteroids. 
[Bzzzt] Sigh. We need to parallelize this thing.

On 11/5/20 12:40 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> I like to imagine an open source platform that Facebook would be required to 
> use that would detect and label (or delete) crazy things.   Like a spelling 
> corrector but for non-facts and confused thinking.   Heavy on automated 
> natural language processing, but with human oversight and an audit trail.   

-- 
↙↙↙ uǝlƃ

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FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam
un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
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Re: [FRIAM] election eve

[Marcus Daniels]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/measuring-the-authoritarian-mind-set-of-trumps-followers/2020/10/01/23490cc8-ea38-11ea-970a-64c73a1c2392_story.html

From: Friam  On Behalf Of Jochen Fromm
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 12:46 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

Do you have an idea why so many people have voted for Trump despite all he has 
done? The cultural difference between the liberal urban centers and the 
conservative countryside can not be the only reason.

Is it FoxNews propaganda, racism or another unknown factor ?


 Original message 
From: Frank Wimberly mailto:wimber...@gmail.com>>
Date: 11/5/20 21:08 (GMT+01:00)
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
mailto:friam@redfish.com>>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

A large percentage of the variance between "us" and "them" seems to be living 
in a city vs living in the country.  Not all but a lot.

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Thu, Nov 5, 2020, 12:59 PM Marcus Daniels 
mailto:mar...@snoutfarm.com>> wrote:
At some level I think we all recognize that the United States has been a 
predatory nation.   For centuries, the influential in this country arranged to 
take the things they wanted, even people.We recognize that we have a better 
lifestyle than people elsewhere in the world.   Trump releases the shame that 
might cause us to consider repairing the harm we have done or at least work 
harder to justify our special status.   No, it is enough to join Team Trump and 
call those people names.   My dog would have the instinct to herd them, and she 
would be right.

From: Friam mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> On 
Behalf Of Robert J. Cordingley
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 11:08 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
mailto:friam@redfish.com>>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

NYT Nicholas Kristof ended his 
OpEd<https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/04/opinion/donald-trump-election-2020.html>
 this morning with a paragraph that summarized my feeling entirely:

"So as I fret about Trump’s efforts to do Russia’s work and delegitimize this 
election, I also keep wrestling with this question: How is it that so many 
millions of Americans watched Trump for four years, suffered the pain of his 
bungling of Covid-19, listened to his stream of lies, observed his attacks on 
American institutions — and then voted for him in greater numbers than before?"

Last count per NYT, there have been 68,644,941 votes (47.8%) this morning for 
Trump. So many voters, that apparently don't see {choose your favorite crisis} 
as a key issue either, it boggles my mind. What have those movements done 
wrong? If I didn't understand how difficult it is to steal an election 
(detailed in another NYT oped today), I might even say there was something 
fishy.

Suggestions?

Robert C
On 11/4/20 5:59 PM, Eric Charles wrote:
[cid:image002.png@01D6B36B.117681A0]



On Wed, Nov 4, 2020 at 5:31 PM Jochen Fromm 
mailto:j...@cas-group.net>> wrote:
Both cnn.com<http://cnn.com> and foxnews.com<http://foxnews.com> report Biden 
will win Michigan and Wisconsin, and if he wins Arizona and Nevada too where he 
leads, he has 270 electoral votes. This means it looks good for Biden! All here 
hope that Joe wins.

-J.

 Original message 
From: uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ mailto:geprope...@gmail.com>>
Date: 11/4/20 19:18 (GMT+01:00)
To: friam@redfish.com<mailto:friam@redfish.com>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

One thing that confuses me is Trump being attributed 267 vs 268 EVs. But I 
suppose it could be Maine, with it's split representation:

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/election-results-and-news-11-04-20/h_f5ca6d24c85ac45e193bf0b1c9b1a2f6


On 11/4/20 10:12 AM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
> Nick,
>
> See Glen's 270 to 267 estimate.  Biden may still win either Georgia or 
> Pennsylvania or both because of the Democrat majority that is likely among 
> the uncounted votes.  If any of that happens Biden wins with a margin.
>
[...]
> Biden: 227, Trump: 213 with PA(20), NC(15), and GA(16) toward Trump and 
> MI(16), WI(10), NV(6), and AZ(11) toward Biden.
>
> 227+16+10+11+6 = 270
> 213+3+15+20+16 = 267

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--

Cirrillian

Web Design & Development

Santa Fe, NM

http://cirrillian.com

281-989-6272 (cell)
-  . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-.  . .-. .
FRIAM Applied C

Re: [FRIAM] election eve

[Jochen Fromm]

Do you have an idea why so many people have voted for Trump despite all he has 
done? The cultural difference between the liberal urban centers and the 
conservative countryside can not be the only reason. Is it FoxNews propaganda, 
racism or another unknown factor ?
 Original message From: Frank Wimberly  
Date: 11/5/20  21:08  (GMT+01:00) To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity 
Coffee Group  Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve A large 
percentage of the variance between "us" and "them" seems to be living in a city 
vs living in the country.  Not all but a lot.---Frank C. Wimberly140 Calle Ojo 
Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505505 670-9918Santa Fe, NM On Thu, Nov 5, 2020, 12:59 PM 
Marcus Daniels  wrote:







At some level I think we all recognize that the United States has been a 
predatory nation.   For centuries, the influential in this country arranged to 
take the things they wanted, even people.    We recognize that we have a better 
lifestyle
 than people elsewhere in the world.   Trump releases the shame that might 
cause us to consider repairing the harm we have done or at least work harder to 
justify our special status.   No, it is enough to join Team Trump and call 
those people names.   My dog
 would have the instinct to herd them, and she would be right.
 


From: Friam  On Behalf Of
Robert J. Cordingley
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 11:08 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve


 
NYT Nicholas Kristof ended his 
OpEd this morning with a paragraph that summarized my feeling entirely: 


"So as I fret about Trump’s efforts to do Russia’s work and delegitimize this 
election, I also keep wrestling with this question: How is it that so many 
millions of Americans watched Trump for four years, suffered the pain of his 
bungling of Covid-19, listened
 to his stream of lies, observed his attacks on American institutions — and 
then voted for him in greater numbers than before?"

Last count per NYT, there have been 68,644,941 votes (47.8%) this morning for 
Trump. So many voters, that apparently don't see {choose your favorite crisis} 
as a key issue either, it boggles my mind. What have those movements done 
wrong? If I didn't understand
 how difficult it is to steal an election (detailed in another NYT oped today), 
I might even say there was something fishy.

Suggestions?
Robert C

On 11/4/20 5:59 PM, Eric Charles wrote:




















 

 


On Wed, Nov 4, 2020 at 5:31 PM Jochen Fromm  wrote:




Both cnn.com and
foxnews.com report Biden will win Michigan and Wisconsin, and if he wins 
Arizona and Nevada too where he leads, he has 270 electoral votes. This means 
it looks good for Biden! All here hope that Joe wins.


 


-J.


 



 Original message 


From: uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ 



Date: 11/4/20 19:18 (GMT+01:00) 



To: 
friam@redfish.com 


Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve 



 


One thing that confuses me is Trump being attributed 267 vs 268 EVs. But I 
suppose it could be Maine, with it's split representation:

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/election-results-and-news-11-04-20/h_f5ca6d24c85ac45e193bf0b1c9b1a2f6


On 11/4/20 10:12 AM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
> Nick,
> 
> See Glen's 270 to 267 estimate.  Biden may still win either Georgia or 
> Pennsylvania or both because of the Democrat majority that is likely among 
> the uncounted votes.  If any of that happens Biden wins with a margin.  
> 
[...]
> Biden: 227, Trump: 213 with PA(20), NC(15), and GA(16) toward Trump and 
>MI(16), WI(10), NV(6), and AZ(11) toward Biden.
> 
> 227+16+10+11+6 = 270
> 213+3+15+20+16 = 267

-- 
↙↙↙ uǝlƃ

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Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  
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-- 
Cirrillian 
Web Design & Development
Santa Fe, NM
http://cirrillian.com
281-989-6272 (cell)



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Re: [FRIAM] election eve

[Marcus Daniels]

I like to imagine an open source platform that Facebook would be required to 
use that would detect and label (or delete) crazy things.   Like a spelling 
corrector but for non-facts and confused thinking.   Heavy on automated natural 
language processing, but with human oversight and an audit trail.

From: Friam  On Behalf Of George Duncan
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 12:31 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

But now you can link online to those (even perhaps few) who will reinforce your 
(perhaps crazy) views

George Duncan
Emeritus Professor of Statistics, Carnegie Mellon University
georgeduncanart.com<http://georgeduncanart.com/>
See posts on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram
Land: (505) 983-6895
Mobile: (505) 469-4671

My art theme: Dynamic exposition of the tension between matrix order and 
luminous chaos.

"Attempt what is not certain. Certainty may or may not come later. It may then 
be a valuable delusion."
From "Notes to myself on beginning a painting" by Richard Diebenkorn.

"It's that knife-edge of uncertainty where we come alive to our truest power." 
Joanna Macy.


On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 1:28 PM Marcus Daniels 
mailto:mar...@snoutfarm.com>> wrote:
It is easier to believe crazy things if you are decoupled from people that will 
show you otherwise.

From: Friam mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> On 
Behalf Of Frank Wimberly
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 12:07 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
mailto:friam@redfish.com>>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

A large percentage of the variance between "us" and "them" seems to be living 
in a city vs living in the country.  Not all but a lot.

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Thu, Nov 5, 2020, 12:59 PM Marcus Daniels 
mailto:mar...@snoutfarm.com>> wrote:
At some level I think we all recognize that the United States has been a 
predatory nation.   For centuries, the influential in this country arranged to 
take the things they wanted, even people.We recognize that we have a better 
lifestyle than people elsewhere in the world.   Trump releases the shame that 
might cause us to consider repairing the harm we have done or at least work 
harder to justify our special status.   No, it is enough to join Team Trump and 
call those people names.   My dog would have the instinct to herd them, and she 
would be right.

From: Friam mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> On 
Behalf Of Robert J. Cordingley
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 11:08 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
mailto:friam@redfish.com>>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

NYT Nicholas Kristof ended his 
OpEd<https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/04/opinion/donald-trump-election-2020.html>
 this morning with a paragraph that summarized my feeling entirely:

"So as I fret about Trump’s efforts to do Russia’s work and delegitimize this 
election, I also keep wrestling with this question: How is it that so many 
millions of Americans watched Trump for four years, suffered the pain of his 
bungling of Covid-19, listened to his stream of lies, observed his attacks on 
American institutions — and then voted for him in greater numbers than before?"

Last count per NYT, there have been 68,644,941 votes (47.8%) this morning for 
Trump. So many voters, that apparently don't see {choose your favorite crisis} 
as a key issue either, it boggles my mind. What have those movements done 
wrong? If I didn't understand how difficult it is to steal an election 
(detailed in another NYT oped today), I might even say there was something 
fishy.

Suggestions?

Robert C
On 11/4/20 5:59 PM, Eric Charles wrote:



On Wed, Nov 4, 2020 at 5:31 PM Jochen Fromm 
mailto:j...@cas-group.net>> wrote:
Both cnn.com<http://cnn.com> and foxnews.com<http://foxnews.com> report Biden 
will win Michigan and Wisconsin, and if he wins Arizona and Nevada too where he 
leads, he has 270 electoral votes. This means it looks good for Biden! All here 
hope that Joe wins.

-J.

 Original message 
From: uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ mailto:geprope...@gmail.com>>
Date: 11/4/20 19:18 (GMT+01:00)
To: friam@redfish.com<mailto:friam@redfish.com>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

One thing that confuses me is Trump being attributed 267 vs 268 EVs. But I 
suppose it could be Maine, with it's split representation:

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/election-results-and-news-11-04-20/h_f5ca6d24c85ac45e193bf0b1c9b1a2f6


On 11/4/20 10:12 AM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
> Nick,
>
> See Glen's 270 to 267 estimate.  Biden may still win either Georgia or 
> Pennsylvania or both because of the Democrat majority that is likely among 
> the uncounted votes.  If any of that happens Biden wins with a margin.
>
[...]
> Biden: 227, Trump: 

Re: [FRIAM] election eve

[George Duncan]

But now you can link online to those (even perhaps few) who will reinforce
your (perhaps crazy) views

George Duncan
Emeritus Professor of Statistics, Carnegie Mellon University
georgeduncanart.com
See posts on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram
Land: (505) 983-6895
Mobile: (505) 469-4671

My art theme: Dynamic exposition of the tension between matrix order and
luminous chaos.

"Attempt what is not certain. Certainty may or may not come later. It may
then be a valuable delusion."
>From "Notes to myself on beginning a painting" by Richard Diebenkorn.

"It's that knife-edge of uncertainty where we come alive to our truest
power." Joanna Macy.




On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 1:28 PM Marcus Daniels  wrote:

> It is easier to believe crazy things if you are decoupled from people that
> will show you otherwise.
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam  *On Behalf Of *Frank Wimberly
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 5, 2020 12:07 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam@redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] election eve
>
>
>
> A large percentage of the variance between "us" and "them" seems to be
> living in a city vs living in the country.  Not all but a lot.
>
>
>
> ---
> Frank C. Wimberly
> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>
> 505 670-9918
> Santa Fe, NM
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 5, 2020, 12:59 PM Marcus Daniels  wrote:
>
> At some level I think we all recognize that the United States has been a
> predatory nation.   For centuries, the influential in this country arranged
> to take the things they wanted, even people.We recognize that we have a
> better lifestyle than people elsewhere in the world.   Trump releases the
> shame that might cause us to consider repairing the harm we have done or at
> least work harder to justify our special status.   No, it is enough to join
> Team Trump and call those people names.   My dog would have the instinct to
> herd them, and she would be right.
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam  *On Behalf Of *Robert J.
> Cordingley
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 5, 2020 11:08 AM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam@redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] election eve
>
>
>
> NYT Nicholas Kristof ended his OpEd
> <https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/04/opinion/donald-trump-election-2020.html>
> this morning with a paragraph that summarized my feeling entirely:
>
> "So as I fret about Trump’s efforts to do Russia’s work and delegitimize
> this election, I also keep wrestling with this question: How is it that so
> many millions of Americans watched Trump for four years, suffered the pain
> of his bungling of Covid-19, listened to his stream of lies, observed his
> attacks on American institutions — and then voted for him in greater
> numbers than before?"
>
> Last count per NYT, there have been 68,644,941 votes (47.8%) this morning
> for Trump. So many voters, that apparently don't see {choose your favorite
> crisis} as a key issue either, it boggles my mind. What have those
> movements done wrong? If I didn't understand how difficult it is to steal
> an election (detailed in another NYT oped today), I might even say there
> was something fishy.
>
> Suggestions?
>
> Robert C
>
> On 11/4/20 5:59 PM, Eric Charles wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 4, 2020 at 5:31 PM Jochen Fromm  wrote:
>
> Both cnn.com and foxnews.com report Biden will win Michigan and
> Wisconsin, and if he wins Arizona and Nevada too where he leads, he has 270
> electoral votes. This means it looks good for Biden! All here hope that Joe
> wins.
>
>
>
> -J.
>
>
>
>  Original message 
>
> From: uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ 
>
> Date: 11/4/20 19:18 (GMT+01:00)
>
> To: friam@redfish.com
>
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve
>
>
>
> One thing that confuses me is Trump being attributed 267 vs 268 EVs. But I
> suppose it could be Maine, with it's split representation:
>
>
> https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/election-results-and-news-11-04-20/h_f5ca6d24c85ac45e193bf0b1c9b1a2f6
>
>
> On 11/4/20 10:12 AM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
> > Nick,
> >
> > See Glen's 270 to 267 estimate.  Biden may still win either Georgia or
> Pennsylvania or both because of the Democrat majority that is likely among
> the uncounted votes.  If any of that happens Biden wins with a margin.
> >
> [...]
> > Biden: 227, Trump: 213 with PA(20), NC(15), and GA(16) toward Trump
> and MI(16), WI(10), NV(6), and AZ(11) toward Biden.
> >
> > 227+16+10+11+6 = 270
> > 213+3+15+20+16 = 267
>
> --
> ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ
>
> -

Re: [FRIAM] election eve

[Marcus Daniels]

It is easier to believe crazy things if you are decoupled from people that will 
show you otherwise.

From: Friam  On Behalf Of Frank Wimberly
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 12:07 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

A large percentage of the variance between "us" and "them" seems to be living 
in a city vs living in the country.  Not all but a lot.

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Thu, Nov 5, 2020, 12:59 PM Marcus Daniels 
mailto:mar...@snoutfarm.com>> wrote:
At some level I think we all recognize that the United States has been a 
predatory nation.   For centuries, the influential in this country arranged to 
take the things they wanted, even people.We recognize that we have a better 
lifestyle than people elsewhere in the world.   Trump releases the shame that 
might cause us to consider repairing the harm we have done or at least work 
harder to justify our special status.   No, it is enough to join Team Trump and 
call those people names.   My dog would have the instinct to herd them, and she 
would be right.

From: Friam mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> On 
Behalf Of Robert J. Cordingley
Sent: Thursday, November 5, 2020 11:08 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
mailto:friam@redfish.com>>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

NYT Nicholas Kristof ended his 
OpEd<https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/04/opinion/donald-trump-election-2020.html>
 this morning with a paragraph that summarized my feeling entirely:

"So as I fret about Trump’s efforts to do Russia’s work and delegitimize this 
election, I also keep wrestling with this question: How is it that so many 
millions of Americans watched Trump for four years, suffered the pain of his 
bungling of Covid-19, listened to his stream of lies, observed his attacks on 
American institutions — and then voted for him in greater numbers than before?"

Last count per NYT, there have been 68,644,941 votes (47.8%) this morning for 
Trump. So many voters, that apparently don't see {choose your favorite crisis} 
as a key issue either, it boggles my mind. What have those movements done 
wrong? If I didn't understand how difficult it is to steal an election 
(detailed in another NYT oped today), I might even say there was something 
fishy.

Suggestions?

Robert C
On 11/4/20 5:59 PM, Eric Charles wrote:
[cid:image002.png@01D6B36B.117681A0]



On Wed, Nov 4, 2020 at 5:31 PM Jochen Fromm 
mailto:j...@cas-group.net>> wrote:
Both cnn.com<http://cnn.com> and foxnews.com<http://foxnews.com> report Biden 
will win Michigan and Wisconsin, and if he wins Arizona and Nevada too where he 
leads, he has 270 electoral votes. This means it looks good for Biden! All here 
hope that Joe wins.

-J.

 Original message 
From: uǝlƃ ↙↙↙ mailto:geprope...@gmail.com>>
Date: 11/4/20 19:18 (GMT+01:00)
To: friam@redfish.com<mailto:friam@redfish.com>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

One thing that confuses me is Trump being attributed 267 vs 268 EVs. But I 
suppose it could be Maine, with it's split representation:

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/election-results-and-news-11-04-20/h_f5ca6d24c85ac45e193bf0b1c9b1a2f6


On 11/4/20 10:12 AM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
> Nick,
>
> See Glen's 270 to 267 estimate.  Biden may still win either Georgia or 
> Pennsylvania or both because of the Democrat majority that is likely among 
> the uncounted votes.  If any of that happens Biden wins with a margin.
>
[...]
> Biden: 227, Trump: 213 with PA(20), NC(15), and GA(16) toward Trump and 
> MI(16), WI(10), NV(6), and AZ(11) toward Biden.
>
> 227+16+10+11+6 = 270
> 213+3+15+20+16 = 267

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Cirrillian

Web Design & Development

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http://cirrillian.com

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Re: [FRIAM] election eve

[Jochen Fromm]

Both cnn.com and foxnews.com report Biden will win Michigan and Wisconsin, and 
if he wins Arizona and Nevada too where he leads, he has 270 electoral votes. 
This means it looks good for Biden! All here hope that Joe wins.-J.
 Original message From: uǝlƃ ↙↙↙  Date: 
11/4/20  19:18  (GMT+01:00) To: friam@redfish.com Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election 
eve One thing that confuses me is Trump being attributed 267 vs 268 EVs. But I 
suppose it could be Maine, with it's split 
representation:https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/election-results-and-news-11-04-20/h_f5ca6d24c85ac45e193bf0b1c9b1a2f6On
 11/4/20 10:12 AM, Frank Wimberly wrote:> Nick,> > See Glen's 270 to 267 
estimate.  Biden may still win either Georgia or Pennsylvania or both because 
of the Democrat majority that is likely among the uncounted votes.  If any of 
that happens Biden wins with a margin.  > [...]> Biden: 227, Trump: 213 
with PA(20), NC(15), and GA(16) toward Trump and MI(16), WI(10), NV(6), and 
AZ(11) toward Biden.> > 227+16+10+11+6 = 270> 213+3+15+20+16 = 267-- 
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Re: [FRIAM] election eve

[Gary Schiltz]

The version I have heard is "If you aren't liberal when you're young, you
don't have a heart. If you aren't conservative when you're old, you don't
have a brain."

On Wed, Nov 4, 2020 at 4:16 PM Steve Smith  wrote:

> I appreciate this point of view.  In 2016 it seems like there was a lot
> of rhetoric about "vote in your own best self-interest" as a way to try
> to increase turnout or focus on why any individual should take voting
> seriously.
>
> Working at LANL for 27 years I heard *way* too many people there voting
> for War Hawks because it was "good for (nuclear weapons) interest" which
> was good for the lab's/county's budget... etc.
>
> I've never voted for my specific self-interest (supporting school bonds
> because my kids were of school age or against them because I had none or
> they were done with that) but with an idea toward a larger self-interest
> of "what kind of world do I want to live in?"...   which has progressed
> with age from one where perhaps there was a lot of scrappy scrapping
> going on where I could "get ahead" to one where "as few people are under
> acute stress and misery as possible such that everyone (human and
> non-human everyones) rises to be their best selves".   I know this is
> very Pollyanna at some level...   But I so much prefer to ignore my
> baser instincts of "greed and fear" in deference to something a little
> more "enlightened".
>
> I have always been appalled by the admonition "If you are not liberal
> while young and conservative when old, there is something wrong with
> you".   I refactored it to "idealistic while young and practical when
> old".   My *practicality* says that my life is improved by the lives of
> my family, friends, neighbors, and beyond being improved, and as Marcus
> reflects here, that works mainly/only/best for those of us NOT living
> under dire threat of privation of abuse, but I would claim that the bulk
> of that "threat" is an illusion in the first world.   We all have spare
> capacity to "rise above" if we choose to.
>
> - Steve
>
> On 11/4/20 11:54 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> > Nick wrote:
> >
> > < I know two trump supporters quite well.  Mind you, we don't talk
> politics that much.  Both are owners of small businesses who have led the
> highly regulated lives that folks must lead if they are going to make money
> in a politically diverse community.  Both [thought they] saw gains from the
> Tax Cuts.  I think both think the economic policies have been good for them
> and they find the crazy stuff kinda fun.  >
> >
> > Let me just give you my visceral response:   If one is doing ok -- not
> having your neck crushed under the knee of a cop or starving -- then I have
> the expectation that a person persuade on the basis on what is good for
> everyone, not what is good for them.I don't care how they make money.
>  That is their problem.   I did fine under Bush, Obama, and even Trump.
>  I'm a lucky one.   It would never occur to me to use minor trends up or
> down in my income for a reason why someone should run the most powerful
> democracy in the world.  I find it petty and appalling that people do think
> of making this connection.   Yes, I would cancel them if I had subscribed
> to them, but I never did subscribe to them.
> >
> > Marcus
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Re: [FRIAM] election eve

[Steve Smith]

I appreciate this point of view.  In 2016 it seems like there was a lot
of rhetoric about "vote in your own best self-interest" as a way to try
to increase turnout or focus on why any individual should take voting
seriously.

Working at LANL for 27 years I heard *way* too many people there voting
for War Hawks because it was "good for (nuclear weapons) interest" which
was good for the lab's/county's budget... etc.   

I've never voted for my specific self-interest (supporting school bonds
because my kids were of school age or against them because I had none or
they were done with that) but with an idea toward a larger self-interest
of "what kind of world do I want to live in?"...   which has progressed
with age from one where perhaps there was a lot of scrappy scrapping
going on where I could "get ahead" to one where "as few people are under
acute stress and misery as possible such that everyone (human and
non-human everyones) rises to be their best selves".   I know this is
very Pollyanna at some level...   But I so much prefer to ignore my
baser instincts of "greed and fear" in deference to something a little
more "enlightened".  

I have always been appalled by the admonition "If you are not liberal
while young and conservative when old, there is something wrong with
you".   I refactored it to "idealistic while young and practical when
old".   My *practicality* says that my life is improved by the lives of
my family, friends, neighbors, and beyond being improved, and as Marcus
reflects here, that works mainly/only/best for those of us NOT living
under dire threat of privation of abuse, but I would claim that the bulk
of that "threat" is an illusion in the first world.   We all have spare
capacity to "rise above" if we choose to.

- Steve

On 11/4/20 11:54 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> Nick wrote:
>
> < I know two trump supporters quite well.  Mind you, we don't talk politics 
> that much.  Both are owners of small businesses who have led the highly 
> regulated lives that folks must lead if they are going to make money in a 
> politically diverse community.  Both [thought they] saw gains from the Tax 
> Cuts.  I think both think the economic policies have been good for them and 
> they find the crazy stuff kinda fun.  >
>
> Let me just give you my visceral response:   If one is doing ok -- not having 
> your neck crushed under the knee of a cop or starving -- then I have the 
> expectation that a person persuade on the basis on what is good for everyone, 
> not what is good for them.I don't care how they make money.   That is 
> their problem.   I did fine under Bush, Obama, and even Trump.   I'm a lucky 
> one.   It would never occur to me to use minor trends up or down in my income 
> for a reason why someone should run the most powerful democracy in the world. 
>  I find it petty and appalling that people do think of making this 
> connection.   Yes, I would cancel them if I had subscribed to them, but I 
> never did subscribe to them. 
>
> Marcus
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Re: [FRIAM] election eve

[uǝlƃ ↙↙↙]

I still think it's the projection/reduction from high dimensions to low that's 
the problem. While I largely agree that it's batshit crazy to, e.g. for Howie 
to run for President given the fate of every Green Party objective will suffer 
dramatically under Trump, it's still an overzealous and irreversible 
compression. (It's not quite the same to for Jo, though, because under Biden, 
many Libertarian objectives will be promoted.) The only answer is to change the 
projection/reduction algorithm, which includes changing Senate, Electoral 
College, and SCOTUS representation as well as solutions to Gerrymandering, 
statehood for DC and Puerto Rico, etc. And most of all, something like 
ranked-choice voting.

On 11/4/20 10:58 AM, Robert J. Cordingley wrote:
> FWIW and then similarly someone came up with:
> 
>   /*It's those with insight who must make the concessions*/.
> 
> (which sucks).
> 
> On "half the country is batshit crazy" - to be generous a big percentage of 
> voters were struggling making a living or making ends meet, raising kids, 
> making payments, etc., before COVID-19. With LOUD voices on both sides I see 
> a messaging saturation effect and voters making a relatively random choice, 
> or voting R because they always did, and this partly because they don't have 
> the time or luxury to figure out anything better. Why else would races be so 
> tight when a landslide should have happened? People continue to not vote in 
> their own interest.
> 
> Robert C
> 
> On 11/4/20 11:26 AM, thompnicks...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> The fundamental challenge of being a liberal, in the classical sense, is 
>> that it obligates you to try to understand the desires and fears of those 
>> who disagree with you

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Re: [FRIAM] election eve

[Marcus Daniels]

It got us to be the largest economy, democracy, and military on earth.Where 
like, everyone wanted to come and live the dream.

How about, just for shits and grins, we give their kid a loaded weapon to play 
with?   Just to see what happens, you know.Could be interesting?

I think I'm not being a "classical liberal".  Oops.

Marcus
 
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Re: [FRIAM] election eve

[thompnickson2]

Easy for you to say.  Like telling me to grow a pancreas.

 

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

 <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> thompnicks...@gmail.com

 <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> 
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

 

 

From: Friam  On Behalf Of Frank Wimberly
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 1:38 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

 

Thanks, Rog.  He's right, Nick.

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz, 
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

 

On Wed, Nov 4, 2020, 12:25 PM Roger Critchlow mailto:r...@elf.org> > wrote:

Oh, go ahead and relax, what can you do about it?

 

-- rec --

 

On Wed, Nov 4, 2020 at 1:12 PM Frank Wimberly mailto:wimber...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Nick,

 

See Glen's 270 to 267 estimate.  Biden may still win either Georgia or 
Pennsylvania or both because of the Democrat majority that is likely among the 
uncounted votes.  If any of that happens Biden wins with a margin.  

 

But it's too close for relaxation.

 

Frank

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz, 
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

 

On Wed, Nov 4, 2020, 11:05 AM mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Gary, 

If you want to live in the bubble for a few more hours, try 

https://abc.com/watch-live/abc-news

Marcus,  The message I am getting from those folks is something like: "We tried 
rationality for 50 years and look where it got us;  let's try crazy for 4 more 
years."

I know two trump supporters quite well.  Mind you, we don't talk politics that 
much.  Both are owners of small businesses who have led the highly regulated 
lives that folks must lead if they are going to make money in a politically 
diverse community.  Both [thought they] saw gains from the Tax Cuts.  I think 
both think the economic policies have been good for them and they find the 
crazy stuff kinda fun.  Like a bit of a wild fling.  They certainly don't take 
those things any more seriously than I took Clinton, with whatsername under the 
Resolute Desk, while he was negotiating with the Majority Leader.  Tsk Tsk, I 
say and them move on.  That's what they do, and they cannot under stand why I 
am scared by Trump, any more than I could understand why they were scared by 
Obama.  I once called one of my relatives in Texas during the bush/Kerry 
election, because she had been born in Massachusetts and I thought she could 
help me understand. "I think that man is dangerous," she said.  I agreed, 
thinking she was talking about Bush.  "Yes," she went on.  "No telling what he 
will do if he and the democrats get in."  

Kerry, DANGEROUS?  My god that man was scared of getting tomato sauce on his 
polo shirt.  But she really was quaking with fear..  Just like I am now. 

The one I really am scared of is McConnell.  Hitler got in because the cartels 
that dominated German politics thought they could "use" him. Look how that 
turned out. 

Nick 

Nick

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
thompnicks...@gmail.com <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> 
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/



-Original Message-
From: Friam mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com> > On 
Behalf Of Marcus Daniels
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 11:24 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group mailto:friam@redfish.com> >
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

Yeah, the main take home to me is the same as before:  Almost half the country 
is batshit crazy.

-Original Message-
From: Friam mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com> > On 
Behalf Of u?l? ???
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 9:22 AM
To: friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com> 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

Right. So both the guardian and nyt show called Biden: 227, Trump: 213 with 
PA(20), NC(15), and GA(16) toward Trump and MI(16), WI(10), NV(6), and AZ(11) 
toward Biden.

227+16+10+11+6 = 270
213+3+15+20+16 = 267

I don't think there's a reason to be optimistic ... cautiously or not. 
Regardless of which value the artificially binary outcome lands on, it's the 
closeness of it that causes the problems.

On 11/4/20 9:08 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> Biden has got a 270 vs. 267 last time I checked, assuming he can’t take 
> Pennsylvania.

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Re: [FRIAM] election eve

[thompnickson2]

Marcus

Well it is hard not to subscribe to someone who is scrupulously caring for
your vacant house or another his dedicatedly married to your  daughter.  

Nick

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
thompnicks...@gmail.com
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
 


-Original Message-
From: Friam  On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 12:55 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

Nick wrote:

< I know two trump supporters quite well.  Mind you, we don't talk politics
that much.  Both are owners of small businesses who have led the highly
regulated lives that folks must lead if they are going to make money in a
politically diverse community.  Both [thought they] saw gains from the Tax
Cuts.  I think both think the economic policies have been good for them and
they find the crazy stuff kinda fun.  >

Let me just give you my visceral response:   If one is doing ok -- not
having your neck crushed under the knee of a cop or starving -- then I have
the expectation that a person persuade on the basis on what is good for
everyone, not what is good for them.I don't care how they make money.
That is their problem.   I did fine under Bush, Obama, and even Trump.   I'm
a lucky one.   It would never occur to me to use minor trends up or down in
my income for a reason why someone should run the most powerful democracy in
the world.  I find it petty and appalling that people do think of making
this connection.   Yes, I would cancel them if I had subscribed to them, but
I never did subscribe to them. 

Marcus
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Re: [FRIAM] election eve

[Frank Wimberly]

Thanks, Rog.  He's right, Nick.

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Wed, Nov 4, 2020, 12:25 PM Roger Critchlow  wrote:

> Oh, go ahead and relax, what can you do about it?
>
> -- rec --
>
> On Wed, Nov 4, 2020 at 1:12 PM Frank Wimberly  wrote:
>
>> Nick,
>>
>> See Glen's 270 to 267 estimate.  Biden may still win either Georgia or
>> Pennsylvania or both because of the Democrat majority that is likely among
>> the uncounted votes.  If any of that happens Biden wins with a margin.
>>
>> But it's too close for relaxation.
>>
>> Frank
>>
>> ---
>> Frank C. Wimberly
>> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
>> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>>
>> 505 670-9918
>> Santa Fe, NM
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 4, 2020, 11:05 AM  wrote:
>>
>>> Gary,
>>>
>>> If you want to live in the bubble for a few more hours, try
>>>
>>> https://abc.com/watch-live/abc-news
>>>
>>> Marcus,  The message I am getting from those folks is something like:
>>> "We tried rationality for 50 years and look where it got us;  let's try
>>> crazy for 4 more years."
>>>
>>> I know two trump supporters quite well.  Mind you, we don't talk
>>> politics that much.  Both are owners of small businesses who have led the
>>> highly regulated lives that folks must lead if they are going to make money
>>> in a politically diverse community.  Both [thought they] saw gains from the
>>> Tax Cuts.  I think both think the economic policies have been good for them
>>> and they find the crazy stuff kinda fun.  Like a bit of a wild fling.  They
>>> certainly don't take those things any more seriously than I took Clinton,
>>> with whatsername under the Resolute Desk, while he was negotiating with the
>>> Majority Leader.  Tsk Tsk, I say and them move on.  That's what they do,
>>> and they cannot under stand why I am scared by Trump, any more than I could
>>> understand why they were scared by Obama.  I once called one of my
>>> relatives in Texas during the bush/Kerry election, because she had been
>>> born in Massachusetts and I thought she could help me understand. "I think
>>> that man is dangerous," she said.  I agreed, thinking she was talking about
>>> Bush.  "Yes," she went on.  "No telling what he will do if he and the
>>> democrats get in."
>>>
>>> Kerry, DANGEROUS?  My god that man was scared of getting tomato sauce on
>>> his polo shirt.  But she really was quaking with fear..  Just like I am
>>> now.
>>>
>>> The one I really am scared of is McConnell.  Hitler got in because the
>>> cartels that dominated German politics thought they could "use" him. Look
>>> how that turned out.
>>>
>>> Nick
>>>
>>> Nick
>>>
>>> Nicholas Thompson
>>> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
>>> Clark University
>>> thompnicks...@gmail.com
>>> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Friam  On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 11:24 AM
>>> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
>>> friam@redfish.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve
>>>
>>> Yeah, the main take home to me is the same as before:  Almost half the
>>> country is batshit crazy.
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Friam  On Behalf Of u?l? ???
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 9:22 AM
>>> To: friam@redfish.com
>>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve
>>>
>>> Right. So both the guardian and nyt show called Biden: 227, Trump: 213
>>> with PA(20), NC(15), and GA(16) toward Trump and MI(16), WI(10), NV(6), and
>>> AZ(11) toward Biden.
>>>
>>> 227+16+10+11+6 = 270
>>> 213+3+15+20+16 = 267
>>>
>>> I don't think there's a reason to be optimistic ... cautiously or not.
>>> Regardless of which value the artificially binary outcome lands on, it's
>>> the closeness of it that causes the problems.
>>>
>>> On 11/4/20 9:08 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
>>> > Biden has got a 270 vs. 267 last time I checked, assuming he can’t
>>> take Pennsylvania.
>>>
>>> --
>>> ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ
>>>
>>> -  . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-.  . .-. .
>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity 

Re: [FRIAM] election eve

[Roger Critchlow]

Oh, go ahead and relax, what can you do about it?

-- rec --

On Wed, Nov 4, 2020 at 1:12 PM Frank Wimberly  wrote:

> Nick,
>
> See Glen's 270 to 267 estimate.  Biden may still win either Georgia or
> Pennsylvania or both because of the Democrat majority that is likely among
> the uncounted votes.  If any of that happens Biden wins with a margin.
>
> But it's too close for relaxation.
>
> Frank
>
> ---
> Frank C. Wimberly
> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>
> 505 670-9918
> Santa Fe, NM
>
> On Wed, Nov 4, 2020, 11:05 AM  wrote:
>
>> Gary,
>>
>> If you want to live in the bubble for a few more hours, try
>>
>> https://abc.com/watch-live/abc-news
>>
>> Marcus,  The message I am getting from those folks is something like: "We
>> tried rationality for 50 years and look where it got us;  let's try crazy
>> for 4 more years."
>>
>> I know two trump supporters quite well.  Mind you, we don't talk politics
>> that much.  Both are owners of small businesses who have led the highly
>> regulated lives that folks must lead if they are going to make money in a
>> politically diverse community.  Both [thought they] saw gains from the Tax
>> Cuts.  I think both think the economic policies have been good for them and
>> they find the crazy stuff kinda fun.  Like a bit of a wild fling.  They
>> certainly don't take those things any more seriously than I took Clinton,
>> with whatsername under the Resolute Desk, while he was negotiating with the
>> Majority Leader.  Tsk Tsk, I say and them move on.  That's what they do,
>> and they cannot under stand why I am scared by Trump, any more than I could
>> understand why they were scared by Obama.  I once called one of my
>> relatives in Texas during the bush/Kerry election, because she had been
>> born in Massachusetts and I thought she could help me understand. "I think
>> that man is dangerous," she said.  I agreed, thinking she was talking about
>> Bush.  "Yes," she went on.  "No telling what he will do if he and the
>> democrats get in."
>>
>> Kerry, DANGEROUS?  My god that man was scared of getting tomato sauce on
>> his polo shirt.  But she really was quaking with fear..  Just like I am
>> now.
>>
>> The one I really am scared of is McConnell.  Hitler got in because the
>> cartels that dominated German politics thought they could "use" him. Look
>> how that turned out.
>>
>> Nick
>>
>> Nick
>>
>> Nicholas Thompson
>> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
>> Clark University
>> thompnicks...@gmail.com
>> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Friam  On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 11:24 AM
>> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > >
>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve
>>
>> Yeah, the main take home to me is the same as before:  Almost half the
>> country is batshit crazy.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Friam  On Behalf Of u?l? ???
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 9:22 AM
>> To: friam@redfish.com
>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve
>>
>> Right. So both the guardian and nyt show called Biden: 227, Trump: 213
>> with PA(20), NC(15), and GA(16) toward Trump and MI(16), WI(10), NV(6), and
>> AZ(11) toward Biden.
>>
>> 227+16+10+11+6 = 270
>> 213+3+15+20+16 = 267
>>
>> I don't think there's a reason to be optimistic ... cautiously or not.
>> Regardless of which value the artificially binary outcome lands on, it's
>> the closeness of it that causes the problems.
>>
>> On 11/4/20 9:08 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
>> > Biden has got a 270 vs. 267 last time I checked, assuming he can’t take
>> Pennsylvania.
>>
>> --
>> ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ
>>
>> -  . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-.  . .-. .
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe
>> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
>> FRIAM-COMIC <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/FRIAM-COMIC>
>> http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
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>> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe
>> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
>> FRIA

Re: [FRIAM] election eve

[Marcus Daniels]

Robert wrote:

<  It's those with insight who must make the concessions. >

That’s certainly a point of view.

Marcus
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Re: [FRIAM] election eve

[Robert J. Cordingley]

FWIW and then similarly someone came up with:

/*It's those with insight who must make the concessions*/.

(which sucks).

On "half the country is batshit crazy" - to be generous a big percentage 
of voters were struggling making a living or making ends meet, raising 
kids, making payments, etc., before COVID-19. With LOUD voices on both 
sides I see a messaging saturation effect and voters making a relatively 
random choice, or voting R because they always did, and this partly 
because they don't have the time or luxury to figure out anything 
better. Why else would races be so tight when a landslide should have 
happened? People continue to not vote in their own interest.


Robert C

On 11/4/20 11:26 AM, thompnicks...@gmail.com wrote:


The fundamental challenge of being a liberal, in the classical sense, 
is that it obligates you to try to understand the desires and fears of 
those who disagree with you


Boy, Howdy.  You got that one right!

Nick

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

thompnicks...@gmail.com <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com>

https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

*From:* Friam  *On Behalf Of *Eric Charles
*Sent:* Wednesday, November 4, 2020 12:18 PM
*To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 


*Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] election eve

" they cannot under stand why I am scared by Trump, any more than I 
could understand why they were scared by Obama "


I know it's a bit of a tangent... but is that actually true?

I'm not sure I've ever found it overly hard to understand why other 
people are afraid of things I'm not. Talk to people for a while, poke 
and prod at their ideas, observe their behavior, etc. It's not 
instantaneous, but I understand lots of things people were scared 
about under Obama (some of which happened, some of which would have 
happened if the Democrats had kept congress, and others of which were 
never going to happen in a million years).


The fundamental challenge of being a liberal, in the classical sense, 
is that it obligates you to try to understand the desires and fears of 
those who disagree with you. The fundamental benefit of being 
authoritarian is that it comes with no such obligation.


On Wed, Nov 4, 2020 at 1:05 PM <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com>> wrote:


Gary,

If you want to live in the bubble for a few more hours, try

https://abc.com/watch-live/abc-news

Marcus,  The message I am getting from those folks is something
like: "We tried rationality for 50 years and look where it got
us;  let's try crazy for 4 more years."

I know two trump supporters quite well.  Mind you, we don't talk
politics that much.  Both are owners of small businesses who have
led the highly regulated lives that folks must lead if they are
going to make money in a politically diverse community.  Both
[thought they] saw gains from the Tax Cuts.  I think both think
the economic policies have been good for them and they find the
crazy stuff kinda fun.  Like a bit of a wild fling.  They
certainly don't take those things any more seriously than I took
Clinton, with whatsername under the Resolute Desk, while he was
negotiating with the Majority Leader.  Tsk Tsk, I say and them
move on.  That's what they do, and they cannot under stand why I
am scared by Trump, any more than I could understand why they were
scared by Obama.  I once called one of my relatives in Texas
during the bush/Kerry election, because she had been born in
Massachusetts and I thought she could help me understand. "I think
that man is dangerous," she said.  I agreed, thinking she was
talking about Bush.  "Yes," she went on. "No telling what he will
do if he and the democrats get in."

Kerry, DANGEROUS?  My god that man was scared of getting tomato
sauce on his polo shirt.  But she really was quaking with fear.. 
Just like I am now.

The one I really am scared of is McConnell.  Hitler got in because
the cartels that dominated German politics thought they could
"use" him. Look how that turned out.

Nick

Nick

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
thompnicks...@gmail.com <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com>
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/



-Original Message-
From: Friam mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 11:24 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
mailto:friam@redfish.com>>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

Yeah, the main take home to me is the same as before: Almost half
the country is batshit crazy.

-Original Message-
From: Friam mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> On Behalf Of u?l? ???
Sent: Wednesday, Novemb

Re: [FRIAM] election eve

[Marcus Daniels]

Nick wrote:

< I know two trump supporters quite well.  Mind you, we don't talk politics 
that much.  Both are owners of small businesses who have led the highly 
regulated lives that folks must lead if they are going to make money in a 
politically diverse community.  Both [thought they] saw gains from the Tax 
Cuts.  I think both think the economic policies have been good for them and 
they find the crazy stuff kinda fun.  >

Let me just give you my visceral response:   If one is doing ok -- not having 
your neck crushed under the knee of a cop or starving -- then I have the 
expectation that a person persuade on the basis on what is good for everyone, 
not what is good for them.I don't care how they make money.   That is their 
problem.   I did fine under Bush, Obama, and even Trump.   I'm a lucky one.   
It would never occur to me to use minor trends up or down in my income for a 
reason why someone should run the most powerful democracy in the world.  I find 
it petty and appalling that people do think of making this connection.   Yes, I 
would cancel them if I had subscribed to them, but I never did subscribe to 
them. 

Marcus
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Re: [FRIAM] election eve

[Frank Wimberly]

Nick,

Senate still undecided but it doesn't look great.

Frank

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Wed, Nov 4, 2020, 11:14 AM  wrote:

> But we didn’t get the senate, right?
>
>
>
> Nicholas Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
>
> Clark University
>
> thompnicks...@gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam  *On Behalf Of *Frank Wimberly
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 4, 2020 12:12 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam@redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] election eve
>
>
>
> Nick,
>
>
>
> See Glen's 270 to 267 estimate.  Biden may still win either Georgia or
> Pennsylvania or both because of the Democrat majority that is likely among
> the uncounted votes.  If any of that happens Biden wins with a margin.
>
>
>
> But it's too close for relaxation.
>
>
>
> Frank
>
> ---
> Frank C. Wimberly
> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>
> 505 670-9918
> Santa Fe, NM
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 4, 2020, 11:05 AM  wrote:
>
> Gary,
>
> If you want to live in the bubble for a few more hours, try
>
> https://abc.com/watch-live/abc-news
>
> Marcus,  The message I am getting from those folks is something like: "We
> tried rationality for 50 years and look where it got us;  let's try crazy
> for 4 more years."
>
> I know two trump supporters quite well.  Mind you, we don't talk politics
> that much.  Both are owners of small businesses who have led the highly
> regulated lives that folks must lead if they are going to make money in a
> politically diverse community.  Both [thought they] saw gains from the Tax
> Cuts.  I think both think the economic policies have been good for them and
> they find the crazy stuff kinda fun.  Like a bit of a wild fling.  They
> certainly don't take those things any more seriously than I took Clinton,
> with whatsername under the Resolute Desk, while he was negotiating with the
> Majority Leader.  Tsk Tsk, I say and them move on.  That's what they do,
> and they cannot under stand why I am scared by Trump, any more than I could
> understand why they were scared by Obama.  I once called one of my
> relatives in Texas during the bush/Kerry election, because she had been
> born in Massachusetts and I thought she could help me understand. "I think
> that man is dangerous," she said.  I agreed, thinking she was talking about
> Bush.  "Yes," she went on.  "No telling what he will do if he and the
> democrats get in."
>
> Kerry, DANGEROUS?  My god that man was scared of getting tomato sauce on
> his polo shirt.  But she really was quaking with fear..  Just like I am
> now.
>
> The one I really am scared of is McConnell.  Hitler got in because the
> cartels that dominated German politics thought they could "use" him. Look
> how that turned out.
>
> Nick
>
> Nick
>
> Nicholas Thompson
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
> Clark University
> thompnicks...@gmail.com
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Friam  On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels
> Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 11:24 AM
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve
>
> Yeah, the main take home to me is the same as before:  Almost half the
> country is batshit crazy.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Friam  On Behalf Of u?l? ???
> Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 9:22 AM
> To: friam@redfish.com
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve
>
> Right. So both the guardian and nyt show called Biden: 227, Trump: 213
> with PA(20), NC(15), and GA(16) toward Trump and MI(16), WI(10), NV(6), and
> AZ(11) toward Biden.
>
> 227+16+10+11+6 = 270
> 213+3+15+20+16 = 267
>
> I don't think there's a reason to be optimistic ... cautiously or not.
> Regardless of which value the artificially binary outcome lands on, it's
> the closeness of it that causes the problems.
>
> On 11/4/20 9:08 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> > Biden has got a 270 vs. 267 last time I checked, assuming he can’t take
> Pennsylvania.
>
> --
> ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ
>
> -  . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-.  . .-. .
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe
> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
> -  . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-.  . .-. .
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group lis

Re: [FRIAM] election eve

[thompnickson2]

The fundamental challenge of being a liberal, in the classical sense, is that 
it obligates you to try to understand the desires and fears of those who 
disagree with you

 

Boy, Howdy.  You got that one right!

 

Nick 

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

 <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> thompnicks...@gmail.com

 <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> 
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

 

 

From: Friam  On Behalf Of Eric Charles
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 12:18 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

 

" they cannot under stand why I am scared by Trump, any more than I could 
understand why they were scared by Obama "

 

I know it's a bit of a tangent... but is that actually true? 

 

I'm not sure I've ever found it overly hard to understand why other people are 
afraid of things I'm not. Talk to people for a while, poke and prod at their 
ideas, observe their behavior, etc. It's not instantaneous, but I understand 
lots of things people were scared about under Obama (some of which happened, 
some of which would have happened if the Democrats had kept congress, and 
others of which were never going to happen in a million years). 

 

The fundamental challenge of being a liberal, in the classical sense, is that 
it obligates you to try to understand the desires and fears of those who 
disagree with you. The fundamental benefit of being authoritarian is that it 
comes with no such obligation.  

 

On Wed, Nov 4, 2020 at 1:05 PM mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Gary, 

If you want to live in the bubble for a few more hours, try 

https://abc.com/watch-live/abc-news

Marcus,  The message I am getting from those folks is something like: "We tried 
rationality for 50 years and look where it got us;  let's try crazy for 4 more 
years."

I know two trump supporters quite well.  Mind you, we don't talk politics that 
much.  Both are owners of small businesses who have led the highly regulated 
lives that folks must lead if they are going to make money in a politically 
diverse community.  Both [thought they] saw gains from the Tax Cuts.  I think 
both think the economic policies have been good for them and they find the 
crazy stuff kinda fun.  Like a bit of a wild fling.  They certainly don't take 
those things any more seriously than I took Clinton, with whatsername under the 
Resolute Desk, while he was negotiating with the Majority Leader.  Tsk Tsk, I 
say and them move on.  That's what they do, and they cannot under stand why I 
am scared by Trump, any more than I could understand why they were scared by 
Obama.  I once called one of my relatives in Texas during the bush/Kerry 
election, because she had been born in Massachusetts and I thought she could 
help me understand. "I think that man is dangerous," she said.  I agreed, 
thinking she was talking about Bush.  "Yes," she went on.  "No telling what he 
will do if he and the democrats get in."  

Kerry, DANGEROUS?  My god that man was scared of getting tomato sauce on his 
polo shirt.  But she really was quaking with fear..  Just like I am now. 

The one I really am scared of is McConnell.  Hitler got in because the cartels 
that dominated German politics thought they could "use" him. Look how that 
turned out. 

Nick 

Nick

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
thompnicks...@gmail.com <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> 
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/



-Original Message-
From: Friam mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com> > On 
Behalf Of Marcus Daniels
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 11:24 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group mailto:friam@redfish.com> >
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

Yeah, the main take home to me is the same as before:  Almost half the country 
is batshit crazy.

-Original Message-
From: Friam mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com> > On 
Behalf Of u?l? ???
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 9:22 AM
To: friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com> 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

Right. So both the guardian and nyt show called Biden: 227, Trump: 213 with 
PA(20), NC(15), and GA(16) toward Trump and MI(16), WI(10), NV(6), and AZ(11) 
toward Biden.

227+16+10+11+6 = 270
213+3+15+20+16 = 267

I don't think there's a reason to be optimistic ... cautiously or not. 
Regardless of which value the artificially binary outcome lands on, it's the 
closeness of it that causes the problems.

On 11/4/20 9:08 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> Biden has got a 270 vs. 267 last time I checked, assuming he can’t take 
> Pennsylvania.

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Re: [FRIAM] election eve

[Eric Charles]

" they cannot under stand why I am scared by Trump, any more than I could
understand why they were scared by Obama "

I know it's a bit of a tangent... but is that actually true?

I'm not sure I've ever found it overly hard to understand why other people
are afraid of things I'm not. Talk to people for a while, poke and prod at
their ideas, observe their behavior, etc. It's not instantaneous, but I
understand lots of things people were scared about under Obama (some of
which happened, some of which would have happened if the Democrats had kept
congress, and others of which were never going to happen in a million
years).

The fundamental challenge of being a liberal, in the classical sense, is
that it obligates you to try to understand the desires and fears of those
who disagree with you. The fundamental benefit of being authoritarian is
that it comes with no such obligation.

On Wed, Nov 4, 2020 at 1:05 PM  wrote:

> Gary,
>
> If you want to live in the bubble for a few more hours, try
>
> https://abc.com/watch-live/abc-news
>
> Marcus,  The message I am getting from those folks is something like: "We
> tried rationality for 50 years and look where it got us;  let's try crazy
> for 4 more years."
>
> I know two trump supporters quite well.  Mind you, we don't talk politics
> that much.  Both are owners of small businesses who have led the highly
> regulated lives that folks must lead if they are going to make money in a
> politically diverse community.  Both [thought they] saw gains from the Tax
> Cuts.  I think both think the economic policies have been good for them and
> they find the crazy stuff kinda fun.  Like a bit of a wild fling.  They
> certainly don't take those things any more seriously than I took Clinton,
> with whatsername under the Resolute Desk, while he was negotiating with the
> Majority Leader.  Tsk Tsk, I say and them move on.  That's what they do,
> and they cannot under stand why I am scared by Trump, any more than I could
> understand why they were scared by Obama.  I once called one of my
> relatives in Texas during the bush/Kerry election, because she had been
> born in Massachusetts and I thought she could help me understand. "I think
> that man is dangerous," she said.  I agreed, thinking she was talking about
> Bush.  "Yes," she went on.  "No telling what he will do if he and the
> democrats get in."
>
> Kerry, DANGEROUS?  My god that man was scared of getting tomato sauce on
> his polo shirt.  But she really was quaking with fear..  Just like I am
> now.
>
> The one I really am scared of is McConnell.  Hitler got in because the
> cartels that dominated German politics thought they could "use" him. Look
> how that turned out.
>
> Nick
>
> Nick
>
> Nicholas Thompson
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
> Clark University
> thompnicks...@gmail.com
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-
> From: Friam  On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels
> Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 11:24 AM
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve
>
> Yeah, the main take home to me is the same as before:  Almost half the
> country is batshit crazy.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Friam  On Behalf Of u?l? ???
> Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 9:22 AM
> To: friam@redfish.com
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve
>
> Right. So both the guardian and nyt show called Biden: 227, Trump: 213
> with PA(20), NC(15), and GA(16) toward Trump and MI(16), WI(10), NV(6), and
> AZ(11) toward Biden.
>
> 227+16+10+11+6 = 270
> 213+3+15+20+16 = 267
>
> I don't think there's a reason to be optimistic ... cautiously or not.
> Regardless of which value the artificially binary outcome lands on, it's
> the closeness of it that causes the problems.
>
> On 11/4/20 9:08 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> > Biden has got a 270 vs. 267 last time I checked, assuming he can’t take
> Pennsylvania.
>
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Re: [FRIAM] election eve

[uǝlƃ ↙↙↙]

One thing that confuses me is Trump being attributed 267 vs 268 EVs. But I 
suppose it could be Maine, with it's split representation:

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/election-results-and-news-11-04-20/h_f5ca6d24c85ac45e193bf0b1c9b1a2f6


On 11/4/20 10:12 AM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
> Nick,
> 
> See Glen's 270 to 267 estimate.  Biden may still win either Georgia or 
> Pennsylvania or both because of the Democrat majority that is likely among 
> the uncounted votes.  If any of that happens Biden wins with a margin.  
> 
[...]
> Biden: 227, Trump: 213 with PA(20), NC(15), and GA(16) toward Trump and 
> MI(16), WI(10), NV(6), and AZ(11) toward Biden.
> 
> 227+16+10+11+6 = 270
> 213+3+15+20+16 = 267

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Re: [FRIAM] election eve

[thompnickson2]

But we didn’t get the senate, right?

 

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

 <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> thompnicks...@gmail.com

 <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> 
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

 

 

From: Friam  On Behalf Of Frank Wimberly
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 12:12 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

 

Nick,

 

See Glen's 270 to 267 estimate.  Biden may still win either Georgia or 
Pennsylvania or both because of the Democrat majority that is likely among the 
uncounted votes.  If any of that happens Biden wins with a margin.  

 

But it's too close for relaxation.

 

Frank

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz, 
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

 

On Wed, Nov 4, 2020, 11:05 AM mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Gary, 

If you want to live in the bubble for a few more hours, try 

https://abc.com/watch-live/abc-news

Marcus,  The message I am getting from those folks is something like: "We tried 
rationality for 50 years and look where it got us;  let's try crazy for 4 more 
years."

I know two trump supporters quite well.  Mind you, we don't talk politics that 
much.  Both are owners of small businesses who have led the highly regulated 
lives that folks must lead if they are going to make money in a politically 
diverse community.  Both [thought they] saw gains from the Tax Cuts.  I think 
both think the economic policies have been good for them and they find the 
crazy stuff kinda fun.  Like a bit of a wild fling.  They certainly don't take 
those things any more seriously than I took Clinton, with whatsername under the 
Resolute Desk, while he was negotiating with the Majority Leader.  Tsk Tsk, I 
say and them move on.  That's what they do, and they cannot under stand why I 
am scared by Trump, any more than I could understand why they were scared by 
Obama.  I once called one of my relatives in Texas during the bush/Kerry 
election, because she had been born in Massachusetts and I thought she could 
help me understand. "I think that man is dangerous," she said.  I agreed, 
thinking she was talking about Bush.  "Yes," she went on.  "No telling what he 
will do if he and the democrats get in."  

Kerry, DANGEROUS?  My god that man was scared of getting tomato sauce on his 
polo shirt.  But she really was quaking with fear..  Just like I am now. 

The one I really am scared of is McConnell.  Hitler got in because the cartels 
that dominated German politics thought they could "use" him. Look how that 
turned out. 

Nick 

Nick

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
thompnicks...@gmail.com <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> 
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/



-Original Message-
From: Friam mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com> > On 
Behalf Of Marcus Daniels
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 11:24 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group mailto:friam@redfish.com> >
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

Yeah, the main take home to me is the same as before:  Almost half the country 
is batshit crazy.

-Original Message-
From: Friam mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com> > On 
Behalf Of u?l? ???
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 9:22 AM
To: friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com> 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

Right. So both the guardian and nyt show called Biden: 227, Trump: 213 with 
PA(20), NC(15), and GA(16) toward Trump and MI(16), WI(10), NV(6), and AZ(11) 
toward Biden.

227+16+10+11+6 = 270
213+3+15+20+16 = 267

I don't think there's a reason to be optimistic ... cautiously or not. 
Regardless of which value the artificially binary outcome lands on, it's the 
closeness of it that causes the problems.

On 11/4/20 9:08 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> Biden has got a 270 vs. 267 last time I checked, assuming he can’t take 
> Pennsylvania.

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Re: [FRIAM] election eve

[Frank Wimberly]

Nick,

See Glen's 270 to 267 estimate.  Biden may still win either Georgia or
Pennsylvania or both because of the Democrat majority that is likely among
the uncounted votes.  If any of that happens Biden wins with a margin.

But it's too close for relaxation.

Frank

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Wed, Nov 4, 2020, 11:05 AM  wrote:

> Gary,
>
> If you want to live in the bubble for a few more hours, try
>
> https://abc.com/watch-live/abc-news
>
> Marcus,  The message I am getting from those folks is something like: "We
> tried rationality for 50 years and look where it got us;  let's try crazy
> for 4 more years."
>
> I know two trump supporters quite well.  Mind you, we don't talk politics
> that much.  Both are owners of small businesses who have led the highly
> regulated lives that folks must lead if they are going to make money in a
> politically diverse community.  Both [thought they] saw gains from the Tax
> Cuts.  I think both think the economic policies have been good for them and
> they find the crazy stuff kinda fun.  Like a bit of a wild fling.  They
> certainly don't take those things any more seriously than I took Clinton,
> with whatsername under the Resolute Desk, while he was negotiating with the
> Majority Leader.  Tsk Tsk, I say and them move on.  That's what they do,
> and they cannot under stand why I am scared by Trump, any more than I could
> understand why they were scared by Obama.  I once called one of my
> relatives in Texas during the bush/Kerry election, because she had been
> born in Massachusetts and I thought she could help me understand. "I think
> that man is dangerous," she said.  I agreed, thinking she was talking about
> Bush.  "Yes," she went on.  "No telling what he will do if he and the
> democrats get in."
>
> Kerry, DANGEROUS?  My god that man was scared of getting tomato sauce on
> his polo shirt.  But she really was quaking with fear..  Just like I am
> now.
>
> The one I really am scared of is McConnell.  Hitler got in because the
> cartels that dominated German politics thought they could "use" him. Look
> how that turned out.
>
> Nick
>
> Nick
>
> Nicholas Thompson
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
> Clark University
> thompnicks...@gmail.com
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-
> From: Friam  On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels
> Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 11:24 AM
> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve
>
> Yeah, the main take home to me is the same as before:  Almost half the
> country is batshit crazy.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Friam  On Behalf Of u?l? ???
> Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 9:22 AM
> To: friam@redfish.com
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve
>
> Right. So both the guardian and nyt show called Biden: 227, Trump: 213
> with PA(20), NC(15), and GA(16) toward Trump and MI(16), WI(10), NV(6), and
> AZ(11) toward Biden.
>
> 227+16+10+11+6 = 270
> 213+3+15+20+16 = 267
>
> I don't think there's a reason to be optimistic ... cautiously or not.
> Regardless of which value the artificially binary outcome lands on, it's
> the closeness of it that causes the problems.
>
> On 11/4/20 9:08 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> > Biden has got a 270 vs. 267 last time I checked, assuming he can’t take
> Pennsylvania.
>
> --
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Re: [FRIAM] election eve

[thompnickson2]

Gary, 

If you want to live in the bubble for a few more hours, try 

https://abc.com/watch-live/abc-news

Marcus,  The message I am getting from those folks is something like: "We tried 
rationality for 50 years and look where it got us;  let's try crazy for 4 more 
years."

I know two trump supporters quite well.  Mind you, we don't talk politics that 
much.  Both are owners of small businesses who have led the highly regulated 
lives that folks must lead if they are going to make money in a politically 
diverse community.  Both [thought they] saw gains from the Tax Cuts.  I think 
both think the economic policies have been good for them and they find the 
crazy stuff kinda fun.  Like a bit of a wild fling.  They certainly don't take 
those things any more seriously than I took Clinton, with whatsername under the 
Resolute Desk, while he was negotiating with the Majority Leader.  Tsk Tsk, I 
say and them move on.  That's what they do, and they cannot under stand why I 
am scared by Trump, any more than I could understand why they were scared by 
Obama.  I once called one of my relatives in Texas during the bush/Kerry 
election, because she had been born in Massachusetts and I thought she could 
help me understand. "I think that man is dangerous," she said.  I agreed, 
thinking she was talking about Bush.  "Yes," she went on.  "No telling what he 
will do if he and the democrats get in."  

Kerry, DANGEROUS?  My god that man was scared of getting tomato sauce on his 
polo shirt.  But she really was quaking with fear..  Just like I am now. 

The one I really am scared of is McConnell.  Hitler got in because the cartels 
that dominated German politics thought they could "use" him. Look how that 
turned out. 

Nick 

Nick

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
thompnicks...@gmail.com
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
 


-Original Message-
From: Friam  On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 11:24 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

Yeah, the main take home to me is the same as before:  Almost half the country 
is batshit crazy.

-Original Message-
From: Friam  On Behalf Of u?l? ???
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 9:22 AM
To: friam@redfish.com
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

Right. So both the guardian and nyt show called Biden: 227, Trump: 213 with 
PA(20), NC(15), and GA(16) toward Trump and MI(16), WI(10), NV(6), and AZ(11) 
toward Biden.

227+16+10+11+6 = 270
213+3+15+20+16 = 267

I don't think there's a reason to be optimistic ... cautiously or not. 
Regardless of which value the artificially binary outcome lands on, it's the 
closeness of it that causes the problems.

On 11/4/20 9:08 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> Biden has got a 270 vs. 267 last time I checked, assuming he can’t take 
> Pennsylvania.

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Re: [FRIAM] election eve

[uǝlƃ ↙↙↙]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2020/nov/03/us-election-2020-live-results-donald-trump-joe-biden-who-won-presidential-republican-democrat
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/11/03/us/elections/results-president.html

On 11/4/20 9:40 AM, Gary Schiltz wrote:
> What source indicated those numbers?


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Re: [FRIAM] election eve

[Marcus Daniels]

It is just the current evolving returns in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Arizona.   
Not a done deal by any means.   Yes, I am trading in my optimism for razor wire 
and surveillance cameras.

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 4, 2020, at 9:40 AM, Gary Schiltz  wrote:


What source indicated those numbers?

On Wed, Nov 4, 2020 at 12:09 PM Marcus Daniels 
mailto:mar...@snoutfarm.com>> wrote:
Biden has got a 270 vs. 267 last time I checked, assuming he can’t take 
Pennsylvania.

From: Friam mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> On 
Behalf Of Gary Schiltz
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 8:37 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
mailto:friam@redfish.com>>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

Nick, I was rather wondering the same thing myself. Frank, please toss us a 
thread-thin lifeline to help buoy the spirits of us bleeding heart liberals 
haha. Is your optimism somehow based on the number of uncounted mail-in ballots?

On Wed, Nov 4, 2020 at 11:33 AM 
mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Frank,

I am just waking up.  (Yeah, I know.)  I see that biden has to carry all the 
states where he is leading and at least  one in which he is not.  Can you tell 
me the basis for your cautious optimism?  I need that right now.

Nick

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
thompnicks...@gmail.com<mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com>
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/


From: Friam mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> On 
Behalf Of Barry MacKichan
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 9:47 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
mailto:friam@redfish.com>>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve


I’m not sure that Trump believes there is any chance the courts will help stop 
counting the vote.

The other purpose for what he is doing is to create another grievance. Trump 
thrives on grievances, and a few more will only help his post-presidential 
career (right-wing broadcasting??).

—Barry

On 2 Nov 2020, at 16:42, Frank Wimberly wrote:
Any party that participates in efforts to invalidate ligitimate voters or 
ballots does not deserve to have candidates in office.  In every case that I am 
aware of in this election courts have decided in favor of the voters or ballots 
that are the subjects of these kinds of efforts.  Trump et al seem desperate.
---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz, 
<https://www.google.com/maps/search/140+Calle+Ojo+Feliz,++%0D%0ASanta+Fe,+NM+87505?entry=gmail=g>
Santa Fe, NM 
87505<https://www.google.com/maps/search/140+Calle+Ojo+Feliz,++%0D%0ASanta+Fe,+NM+87505?entry=gmail=g>

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Mon, Nov 2, 2020, 2:24 PM Roger Critchlow 
mailto:r...@elf.org>> wrote:
https://www.startribune.com/more-than-1-7m-absentee-ballots-returned-in-minnesota-as-feds-announce-election-monitors/572949792/

Barr is sending the DOJ to help with the election.

-- rec --


On Mon, Nov 2, 2020 at 3:33 PM 
mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I dunno.  What Is happening in MN.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/minnesota/

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
thompnicks...@gmail.com<mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com>
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/



-Original Message-
From: Friam mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> On 
Behalf Of u?l? ???
Sent: Monday, November 2, 2020 1:03 PM
To: FriAM mailto:friam@redfish.com>>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

What's happening in Minnesota?

https://electoral-vote.com/evp2020/Pres/Graphs/minnesota.html
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/minnesota/
https://electionprojection.com/minnesota-presidential-election.php
https://www.politico.com/2020-election/race-forecasts-and-predictions/minnesota/


On 11/2/20 8:42 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Friam mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> On 
> Behalf Of Prof David West
> Sent: Monday, November 2, 2020 8:26 AM
> To: friam@redfish.com<mailto:friam@redfish.com>
> Subject: [FRIAM] election eve
>
> (Everyone is seeing Wisconsin as must win and ignoring what is
> happening in Minnesota, a state with the same 10 votes as Wisconsin.)


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Re: [FRIAM] election eve

[Gary Schiltz]

What source indicated those numbers?

On Wed, Nov 4, 2020 at 12:09 PM Marcus Daniels  wrote:

> Biden has got a 270 vs. 267 last time I checked, assuming he can’t take
> Pennsylvania.
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam  *On Behalf Of *Gary Schiltz
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 4, 2020 8:37 AM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam@redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] election eve
>
>
>
> Nick, I was rather wondering the same thing myself. Frank, please toss us
> a thread-thin lifeline to help buoy the spirits of us bleeding heart
> liberals haha. Is your optimism somehow based on the number of uncounted
> mail-in ballots?
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 4, 2020 at 11:33 AM  wrote:
>
> Frank,
>
>
>
> I am just waking up.  (Yeah, I know.)  I see that biden has to carry all
> the states where he is leading and at least  one in which he is not.  Can
> you tell me the basis for your cautious optimism?  I need that right now.
>
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
> Nicholas Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
>
> Clark University
>
> thompnicks...@gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam  *On Behalf Of *Barry MacKichan
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 4, 2020 9:47 AM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam@redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] election eve
>
>
>
> I’m not sure that Trump believes there is any chance the courts will help
> stop counting the vote.
>
> The other purpose for what he is doing is to create another grievance.
> Trump thrives on grievances, and a few more will only help his
> post-presidential career (right-wing broadcasting??).
>
> —Barry
>
> On 2 Nov 2020, at 16:42, Frank Wimberly wrote:
>
> Any party that participates in efforts to invalidate ligitimate voters or
> ballots does not deserve to have candidates in office.  In every case that
> I am aware of in this election courts have decided in favor of the voters
> or ballots that are the subjects of these kinds of efforts.  Trump et al
> seem desperate.
>
> ---
> Frank C. Wimberly
> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/140+Calle+Ojo+Feliz,++%0D%0ASanta+Fe,+NM+87505?entry=gmail=g>
> Santa Fe, NM 87505
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/140+Calle+Ojo+Feliz,++%0D%0ASanta+Fe,+NM+87505?entry=gmail=g>
>
> 505 670-9918
> Santa Fe, NM
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 2, 2020, 2:24 PM Roger Critchlow  wrote:
>
>
> https://www.startribune.com/more-than-1-7m-absentee-ballots-returned-in-minnesota-as-feds-announce-election-monitors/572949792/
>
>
>
> Barr is sending the DOJ to help with the election.
>
>
>
> -- rec --
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 2, 2020 at 3:33 PM  wrote:
>
> I dunno.  What Is happening in MN.
>
> https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/minnesota/
>
> Nicholas Thompson
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
> Clark University
> thompnicks...@gmail.com
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Friam  On Behalf Of u?l? ???
> Sent: Monday, November 2, 2020 1:03 PM
> To: FriAM 
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve
>
> What's happening in Minnesota?
>
> https://electoral-vote.com/evp2020/Pres/Graphs/minnesota.html
> https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/minnesota/
> https://electionprojection.com/minnesota-presidential-election.php
>
> https://www.politico.com/2020-election/race-forecasts-and-predictions/minnesota/
>
>
> On 11/2/20 8:42 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Friam  On Behalf Of Prof David West
> > Sent: Monday, November 2, 2020 8:26 AM
> > To: friam@redfish.com
> > Subject: [FRIAM] election eve
> >
> > (Everyone is seeing Wisconsin as must win and ignoring what is
> > happening in Minnesota, a state with the same 10 votes as Wisconsin.)
>
>
> --
> ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ
>
> -  . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-.  . .-. .
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> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe
> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
> FRIAM-COMIC <http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/FRIAM-COMIC>
> http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
>
>
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> archives: http://friam.47136

Re: [FRIAM] election eve

[Merle Lefkoff]

>From the Washington Post

WASHINGTON - The U.S. Postal Service turned down a federal judge’s order
late Tuesday afternoon to sweep mail processing facilities serving 15
states, saying instead it would stick to its own inspection schedule. The
judge’s order came after the agency disclosed that more than 300,000
ballots nationwide could not be traced.

On Wed, Nov 4, 2020 at 9:22 AM uǝlƃ ↙↙↙  wrote:

> Right. So both the guardian and nyt show called Biden: 227, Trump: 213
> with PA(20), NC(15), and GA(16) toward Trump and MI(16), WI(10), NV(6), and
> AZ(11) toward Biden.
>
> 227+16+10+11+6 = 270
> 213+3+15+20+16 = 267
>
> I don't think there's a reason to be optimistic ... cautiously or not.
> Regardless of which value the artificially binary outcome lands on, it's
> the closeness of it that causes the problems.
>
> On 11/4/20 9:08 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> > Biden has got a 270 vs. 267 last time I checked, assuming he can’t take
> Pennsylvania.
>
> --
> ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ
>
> -  . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-.  . .-. .
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> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
> FRIAM-COMIC 
> http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
>


-- 
Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
Center for Emergent Diplomacy
emergentdiplomacy.org
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA

mobile:  (303) 859-5609
skype:  merle.lelfkoff2
twitter: @Merle_Lefkoff
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Re: [FRIAM] election eve

[Marcus Daniels]

Yeah, the main take home to me is the same as before:  Almost half the country 
is batshit crazy.

-Original Message-
From: Friam  On Behalf Of u?l? ???
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 9:22 AM
To: friam@redfish.com
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

Right. So both the guardian and nyt show called Biden: 227, Trump: 213 with 
PA(20), NC(15), and GA(16) toward Trump and MI(16), WI(10), NV(6), and AZ(11) 
toward Biden.

227+16+10+11+6 = 270
213+3+15+20+16 = 267

I don't think there's a reason to be optimistic ... cautiously or not. 
Regardless of which value the artificially binary outcome lands on, it's the 
closeness of it that causes the problems.

On 11/4/20 9:08 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> Biden has got a 270 vs. 267 last time I checked, assuming he can’t take 
> Pennsylvania.

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Re: [FRIAM] election eve

[uǝlƃ ↙↙↙]

Right. So both the guardian and nyt show called Biden: 227, Trump: 213 with 
PA(20), NC(15), and GA(16) toward Trump and MI(16), WI(10), NV(6), and AZ(11) 
toward Biden.

227+16+10+11+6 = 270
213+3+15+20+16 = 267

I don't think there's a reason to be optimistic ... cautiously or not. 
Regardless of which value the artificially binary outcome lands on, it's the 
closeness of it that causes the problems.

On 11/4/20 9:08 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> Biden has got a 270 vs. 267 last time I checked, assuming he can’t take 
> Pennsylvania.

-- 
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Re: [FRIAM] election eve

[Marcus Daniels]

Biden has got a 270 vs. 267 last time I checked, assuming he can’t take 
Pennsylvania.

From: Friam  On Behalf Of Gary Schiltz
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 8:37 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

Nick, I was rather wondering the same thing myself. Frank, please toss us a 
thread-thin lifeline to help buoy the spirits of us bleeding heart liberals 
haha. Is your optimism somehow based on the number of uncounted mail-in ballots?

On Wed, Nov 4, 2020 at 11:33 AM 
mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Frank,

I am just waking up.  (Yeah, I know.)  I see that biden has to carry all the 
states where he is leading and at least  one in which he is not.  Can you tell 
me the basis for your cautious optimism?  I need that right now.

Nick

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
thompnicks...@gmail.com<mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com>
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/


From: Friam mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> On 
Behalf Of Barry MacKichan
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 9:47 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
mailto:friam@redfish.com>>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve


I’m not sure that Trump believes there is any chance the courts will help stop 
counting the vote.

The other purpose for what he is doing is to create another grievance. Trump 
thrives on grievances, and a few more will only help his post-presidential 
career (right-wing broadcasting??).

—Barry

On 2 Nov 2020, at 16:42, Frank Wimberly wrote:
Any party that participates in efforts to invalidate ligitimate voters or 
ballots does not deserve to have candidates in office.  In every case that I am 
aware of in this election courts have decided in favor of the voters or ballots 
that are the subjects of these kinds of efforts.  Trump et al seem desperate.
---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Mon, Nov 2, 2020, 2:24 PM Roger Critchlow 
mailto:r...@elf.org>> wrote:
https://www.startribune.com/more-than-1-7m-absentee-ballots-returned-in-minnesota-as-feds-announce-election-monitors/572949792/

Barr is sending the DOJ to help with the election.

-- rec --


On Mon, Nov 2, 2020 at 3:33 PM 
mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I dunno.  What Is happening in MN.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/minnesota/

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
thompnicks...@gmail.com<mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com>
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/



-Original Message-
From: Friam mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> On 
Behalf Of u?l? ???
Sent: Monday, November 2, 2020 1:03 PM
To: FriAM mailto:friam@redfish.com>>
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

What's happening in Minnesota?

https://electoral-vote.com/evp2020/Pres/Graphs/minnesota.html
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/minnesota/
https://electionprojection.com/minnesota-presidential-election.php
https://www.politico.com/2020-election/race-forecasts-and-predictions/minnesota/


On 11/2/20 8:42 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Friam mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> On 
> Behalf Of Prof David West
> Sent: Monday, November 2, 2020 8:26 AM
> To: friam@redfish.com<mailto:friam@redfish.com>
> Subject: [FRIAM] election eve
>
> (Everyone is seeing Wisconsin as must win and ignoring what is
> happening in Minnesota, a state with the same 10 votes as Wisconsin.)


--
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Re: [FRIAM] election eve

[Gary Schiltz]

Nick, I was rather wondering the same thing myself. Frank, please toss us a
thread-thin lifeline to help buoy the spirits of us bleeding heart liberals
haha. Is your optimism somehow based on the number of uncounted mail-in
ballots?

On Wed, Nov 4, 2020 at 11:33 AM  wrote:

> Frank,
>
>
>
> I am just waking up.  (Yeah, I know.)  I see that biden has to carry all
> the states where he is leading and at least  one in which he is not.  Can
> you tell me the basis for your cautious optimism?  I need that right now.
>
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
> Nicholas Thompson
>
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
>
> Clark University
>
> thompnicks...@gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam  *On Behalf Of *Barry MacKichan
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 4, 2020 9:47 AM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam@redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] election eve
>
>
>
> I’m not sure that Trump believes there is any chance the courts will help
> stop counting the vote.
>
> The other purpose for what he is doing is to create another grievance.
> Trump thrives on grievances, and a few more will only help his
> post-presidential career (right-wing broadcasting??).
>
> —Barry
>
> On 2 Nov 2020, at 16:42, Frank Wimberly wrote:
>
> Any party that participates in efforts to invalidate ligitimate voters or
> ballots does not deserve to have candidates in office.  In every case that
> I am aware of in this election courts have decided in favor of the voters
> or ballots that are the subjects of these kinds of efforts.  Trump et al
> seem desperate.
>
> ---
> Frank C. Wimberly
> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>
> 505 670-9918
> Santa Fe, NM
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 2, 2020, 2:24 PM Roger Critchlow  wrote:
>
>
> https://www.startribune.com/more-than-1-7m-absentee-ballots-returned-in-minnesota-as-feds-announce-election-monitors/572949792/
>
>
>
> Barr is sending the DOJ to help with the election.
>
>
>
> -- rec --
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 2, 2020 at 3:33 PM  wrote:
>
> I dunno.  What Is happening in MN.
>
> https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/minnesota/
>
> Nicholas Thompson
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
> Clark University
> thompnicks...@gmail.com
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Friam  On Behalf Of u?l? ???
> Sent: Monday, November 2, 2020 1:03 PM
> To: FriAM 
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve
>
> What's happening in Minnesota?
>
> https://electoral-vote.com/evp2020/Pres/Graphs/minnesota.html
> https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/minnesota/
> https://electionprojection.com/minnesota-presidential-election.php
>
> https://www.politico.com/2020-election/race-forecasts-and-predictions/minnesota/
>
>
> On 11/2/20 8:42 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Friam  On Behalf Of Prof David West
> > Sent: Monday, November 2, 2020 8:26 AM
> > To: friam@redfish.com
> > Subject: [FRIAM] election eve
> >
> > (Everyone is seeing Wisconsin as must win and ignoring what is
> > happening in Minnesota, a state with the same 10 votes as Wisconsin.)
>
>
> --
> ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ
>
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>
>
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>
> -  . -..-

Re: [FRIAM] election eve

[thompnickson2]

Frank,  

 

I am just waking up.  (Yeah, I know.)  I see that biden has to carry all the 
states where he is leading and at least  one in which he is not.  Can you tell 
me the basis for your cautious optimism?  I need that right now.  

 

Nick 

 

Nicholas Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology

Clark University

 <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> thompnicks...@gmail.com

 <https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> 
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/

 

 

From: Friam  On Behalf Of Barry MacKichan
Sent: Wednesday, November 4, 2020 9:47 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

 

I’m not sure that Trump believes there is any chance the courts will help stop 
counting the vote.

The other purpose for what he is doing is to create another grievance. Trump 
thrives on grievances, and a few more will only help his post-presidential 
career (right-wing broadcasting??).

—Barry

On 2 Nov 2020, at 16:42, Frank Wimberly wrote:

Any party that participates in efforts to invalidate ligitimate voters or 
ballots does not deserve to have candidates in office.  In every case that I am 
aware of in this election courts have decided in favor of the voters or ballots 
that are the subjects of these kinds of efforts.  Trump et al seem desperate.

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz, 
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

 

On Mon, Nov 2, 2020, 2:24 PM Roger Critchlow mailto:r...@elf.org> > wrote:

https://www.startribune.com/more-than-1-7m-absentee-ballots-returned-in-minnesota-as-feds-announce-election-monitors/572949792/

 

Barr is sending the DOJ to help with the election.

 

-- rec --

 

 

On Mon, Nov 2, 2020 at 3:33 PM mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> > wrote:

I dunno.  What Is happening in MN. 

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/minnesota/

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
thompnicks...@gmail.com <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> 
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/



-Original Message-
From: Friam mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com> > On 
Behalf Of u?l? ???
Sent: Monday, November 2, 2020 1:03 PM
To: FriAM mailto:friam@redfish.com> >
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

What's happening in Minnesota?

https://electoral-vote.com/evp2020/Pres/Graphs/minnesota.html
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/minnesota/
https://electionprojection.com/minnesota-presidential-election.php
https://www.politico.com/2020-election/race-forecasts-and-predictions/minnesota/


On 11/2/20 8:42 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Friam mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com> > 
> On Behalf Of Prof David West
> Sent: Monday, November 2, 2020 8:26 AM
> To: friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com> 
> Subject: [FRIAM] election eve
> 
> (Everyone is seeing Wisconsin as must win and ignoring what is 
> happening in Minnesota, a state with the same 10 votes as Wisconsin.)


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Re: [FRIAM] election eve

[Barry MacKichan]

I’m not sure that Trump believes there is any chance the courts will 
help stop counting the vote.


The other purpose for what he is doing is to create another grievance. 
Trump thrives on grievances, and a few more will only help his 
post-presidential career (right-wing broadcasting??).


—Barry

On 2 Nov 2020, at 16:42, Frank Wimberly wrote:

Any party that participates in efforts to invalidate ligitimate voters 
or
ballots does not deserve to have candidates in office.  In every case 
that
I am aware of in this election courts have decided in favor of the 
voters
or ballots that are the subjects of these kinds of efforts.  Trump et 
al

seem desperate.

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Mon, Nov 2, 2020, 2:24 PM Roger Critchlow  wrote:



https://www.startribune.com/more-than-1-7m-absentee-ballots-returned-in-minnesota-as-feds-announce-election-monitors/572949792/

Barr is sending the DOJ to help with the election.

-- rec --


On Mon, Nov 2, 2020 at 3:33 PM  wrote:


I dunno.  What Is happening in MN.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/minnesota/

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
thompnicks...@gmail.com
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/



-Original Message-
From: Friam  On Behalf Of u?l? ???
Sent: Monday, November 2, 2020 1:03 PM
To: FriAM 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

What's happening in Minnesota?

https://electoral-vote.com/evp2020/Pres/Graphs/minnesota.html
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/minnesota/
https://electionprojection.com/minnesota-presidential-election.php

https://www.politico.com/2020-election/race-forecasts-and-predictions/minnesota/


On 11/2/20 8:42 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:


-Original Message-
From: Friam  On Behalf Of Prof David 
West

Sent: Monday, November 2, 2020 8:26 AM
To: friam@redfish.com
Subject: [FRIAM] election eve

(Everyone is seeing Wisconsin as must win and ignoring what is
happening in Minnesota, a state with the same 10 votes as 
Wisconsin.)



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Re: [FRIAM] election eve

[Barry MacKichan]

I’m not sure that Trump believes that what he is doing will affect the 
vote count.


My theory is that he might hope for that, but the other purpose is to 
create a grievance. Trump thrives on grievances and having a few more 
out there will give his post-presidential career (right-wing 
broadcasting??) a boost.


—Barry

On 2 Nov 2020, at 16:42, Frank Wimberly wrote:

Any party that participates in efforts to invalidate ligitimate voters 
or
ballots does not deserve to have candidates in office.  In every case 
that
I am aware of in this election courts have decided in favor of the 
voters
or ballots that are the subjects of these kinds of efforts.  Trump et 
al

seem desperate.

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Mon, Nov 2, 2020, 2:24 PM Roger Critchlow  wrote:



https://www.startribune.com/more-than-1-7m-absentee-ballots-returned-in-minnesota-as-feds-announce-election-monitors/572949792/

Barr is sending the DOJ to help with the election.

-- rec --


On Mon, Nov 2, 2020 at 3:33 PM  wrote:


I dunno.  What Is happening in MN.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/minnesota/

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
thompnicks...@gmail.com
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/



-Original Message-
From: Friam  On Behalf Of u?l? ???
Sent: Monday, November 2, 2020 1:03 PM
To: FriAM 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

What's happening in Minnesota?

https://electoral-vote.com/evp2020/Pres/Graphs/minnesota.html
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/minnesota/
https://electionprojection.com/minnesota-presidential-election.php

https://www.politico.com/2020-election/race-forecasts-and-predictions/minnesota/


On 11/2/20 8:42 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:


-Original Message-
From: Friam  On Behalf Of Prof David 
West

Sent: Monday, November 2, 2020 8:26 AM
To: friam@redfish.com
Subject: [FRIAM] election eve

(Everyone is seeing Wisconsin as must win and ignoring what is
happening in Minnesota, a state with the same 10 votes as 
Wisconsin.)



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Re: [FRIAM] election eve

[Frank Wimberly]

Any party that participates in efforts to invalidate ligitimate voters or
ballots does not deserve to have candidates in office.  In every case that
I am aware of in this election courts have decided in favor of the voters
or ballots that are the subjects of these kinds of efforts.  Trump et al
seem desperate.

---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505

505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM

On Mon, Nov 2, 2020, 2:24 PM Roger Critchlow  wrote:

>
> https://www.startribune.com/more-than-1-7m-absentee-ballots-returned-in-minnesota-as-feds-announce-election-monitors/572949792/
>
> Barr is sending the DOJ to help with the election.
>
> -- rec --
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 2, 2020 at 3:33 PM  wrote:
>
>> I dunno.  What Is happening in MN.
>>
>> https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/minnesota/
>>
>> Nicholas Thompson
>> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
>> Clark University
>> thompnicks...@gmail.com
>> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Friam  On Behalf Of u?l? ???
>> Sent: Monday, November 2, 2020 1:03 PM
>> To: FriAM 
>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve
>>
>> What's happening in Minnesota?
>>
>> https://electoral-vote.com/evp2020/Pres/Graphs/minnesota.html
>> https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/minnesota/
>> https://electionprojection.com/minnesota-presidential-election.php
>>
>> https://www.politico.com/2020-election/race-forecasts-and-predictions/minnesota/
>>
>>
>> On 11/2/20 8:42 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
>> >
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: Friam  On Behalf Of Prof David West
>> > Sent: Monday, November 2, 2020 8:26 AM
>> > To: friam@redfish.com
>> > Subject: [FRIAM] election eve
>> >
>> > (Everyone is seeing Wisconsin as must win and ignoring what is
>> > happening in Minnesota, a state with the same 10 votes as Wisconsin.)
>>
>>
>> --
>> ↙↙↙ uǝlƃ
>>
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>> http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
>>
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>>
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Re: [FRIAM] election eve

[Roger Critchlow]

https://www.startribune.com/more-than-1-7m-absentee-ballots-returned-in-minnesota-as-feds-announce-election-monitors/572949792/

Barr is sending the DOJ to help with the election.

-- rec --


On Mon, Nov 2, 2020 at 3:33 PM  wrote:

> I dunno.  What Is happening in MN.
>
> https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/minnesota/
>
> Nicholas Thompson
> Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
> Clark University
> thompnicks...@gmail.com
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Friam  On Behalf Of u?l? ???
> Sent: Monday, November 2, 2020 1:03 PM
> To: FriAM 
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve
>
> What's happening in Minnesota?
>
> https://electoral-vote.com/evp2020/Pres/Graphs/minnesota.html
> https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/minnesota/
> https://electionprojection.com/minnesota-presidential-election.php
>
> https://www.politico.com/2020-election/race-forecasts-and-predictions/minnesota/
>
>
> On 11/2/20 8:42 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Friam  On Behalf Of Prof David West
> > Sent: Monday, November 2, 2020 8:26 AM
> > To: friam@redfish.com
> > Subject: [FRIAM] election eve
> >
> > (Everyone is seeing Wisconsin as must win and ignoring what is
> > happening in Minnesota, a state with the same 10 votes as Wisconsin.)
>
>
> --
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>
>
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Re: [FRIAM] election eve

[thompnickson2]

I dunno.  What Is happening in MN. 

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/minnesota/

Nicholas Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Ethology and Psychology
Clark University
thompnicks...@gmail.com
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
 


-Original Message-
From: Friam  On Behalf Of u?l? ???
Sent: Monday, November 2, 2020 1:03 PM
To: FriAM 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] election eve

What's happening in Minnesota?

https://electoral-vote.com/evp2020/Pres/Graphs/minnesota.html
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/minnesota/
https://electionprojection.com/minnesota-presidential-election.php
https://www.politico.com/2020-election/race-forecasts-and-predictions/minnesota/


On 11/2/20 8:42 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Friam  On Behalf Of Prof David West
> Sent: Monday, November 2, 2020 8:26 AM
> To: friam@redfish.com
> Subject: [FRIAM] election eve
> 
> (Everyone is seeing Wisconsin as must win and ignoring what is 
> happening in Minnesota, a state with the same 10 votes as Wisconsin.)


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Re: [FRIAM] election eve

[uǝlƃ ↙↙↙]

What's happening in Minnesota?

https://electoral-vote.com/evp2020/Pres/Graphs/minnesota.html
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/minnesota/
https://electionprojection.com/minnesota-presidential-election.php
https://www.politico.com/2020-election/race-forecasts-and-predictions/minnesota/


On 11/2/20 8:42 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Friam  On Behalf Of Prof David West
> Sent: Monday, November 2, 2020 8:26 AM
> To: friam@redfish.com
> Subject: [FRIAM] election eve
> 
> (Everyone is seeing Wisconsin as must win and ignoring what is happening in 
> Minnesota, a state with the same 10 votes as Wisconsin.)


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Re: [FRIAM] election eve

[Marcus Daniels]

I'm cautiously optimistic that Biden will win early.Dave could be right, in 
which case, yeah, who cares what happens.
The most exciting thing that could happen would be that Biden takes Texas.

-Original Message-
From: Friam  On Behalf Of Prof David West
Sent: Monday, November 2, 2020 8:26 AM
To: friam@redfish.com
Subject: [FRIAM] election eve

Frank put his prediction on the list, so I guess it is OK to add mine.

Last time I was 100% certain of my predictions. This time between 60-75 percent 
certain.

Trump will win by roughly the same electoral college numbers as last time, with 
minor changes, e.g. swapping Wisconsin for Minnesota. (Everyone is seeing 
Wisconsin as must win and ignoring what is happening in Minnesota, a state with 
the same 10 votes as Wisconsin.)

This result will be apparent Nov. 3-5.  Late ballots will be overwhelmingly for 
Biden and might even threaten the electoral college result. Lawsuits in 
abundance.

Ultimately Trump will win. Riots in the street. The leftist "Protect The Vote" 
movement (Trump-ers have one similarly or identically named) already has plans 
in place for "peaceful" protests — starting Nov. 4 in NY and DC, so they must 
share my belief to some degree — and are actively working with old fart 60's 
leftists to define/decide necessary actions when the demonstrations prove 
insufficient. (I was actually approached by an old colleague from the Weather 
Underground so ascertain my interest in enlisting.)

davew

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[FRIAM] election eve

[Prof David West]

Frank put his prediction on the list, so I guess it is OK to add mine.

Last time I was 100% certain of my predictions. This time between 60-75 percent 
certain.

Trump will win by roughly the same electoral college numbers as last time, with 
minor changes, e.g. swapping Wisconsin for Minnesota. (Everyone is seeing 
Wisconsin as must win and ignoring what is happening in Minnesota, a state with 
the same 10 votes as Wisconsin.)

This result will be apparent Nov. 3-5.  Late ballots will be overwhelmingly for 
Biden and might even threaten the electoral college result. Lawsuits in 
abundance.

Ultimately Trump will win. Riots in the street. The leftist "Protect The Vote" 
movement (Trump-ers have one similarly or identically named) already has plans 
in place for "peaceful" protests — starting Nov. 4 in NY and DC, so they must 
share my belief to some degree — and are actively working with old fart 60's 
leftists to define/decide necessary actions when the demonstrations prove 
insufficient. (I was actually approached by an old colleague from the Weather 
Underground so ascertain my interest in enlisting.)

davew

-  . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-.  . .-. .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6  bit.ly/virtualfriam
un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/