Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

[uǝlƃ ☣]

Rete mirable would definitely not apply.  It suffers from the same criticism I 
have of "plexus", the implication that the threads don't intersect but are 
braided.  And anastomosis is wrong, too, because it's focus is on shunting, 
regardless of whether such shunting is large (e.g. surgical) or tiny (as a 
result of, say, perfusion), where its result may look like or have other 
superficial similarities to a stable, space-filling, morphogenetic purpose.  
It's reasonable to call the peri-portal subgraph anastomotic, but inappropriate 
for the peri-central subgraph where it looks much more like a plexus (to me, 
anyway).  It seems plausible to me (with no credibility) that the extent of the 
shunting might be a function of stellate cells and/or endothelial fenestration, 
over and above any effects of growth factors. Anastomoses are simply too 
"physical" looking to provide that as an *name* for the more well-organized 
growth structures.

In that respect, the sense of "anastomosis" is very similar to "canalization" 
or "alluvium", though.  It's like the somewhat fossilized end-result of some 
(complex) physical force.

Regardless, this has been a fantastic discussion.  I think, for now, I'm going 
to stick with afferent and efferent filtrations ... and in persnickety 
environments, I can always switch back to plexuses.

On 08/27/2018 08:47 PM, Vladimyr wrote:
> The Rete Mirable is two or more intimately woven systems that contain fluids. 
> Fluids are in proximity but normally
> 
> never exchange contents, rather heat or gases flow/diffuse down to a lower 
> concentration or gradient not the fluid.
> 
> Where the two systems engage, the gradient is the greatest where they 
> terminate the gradient is near zero or equilibrium.
> 
>  
> 
> It is less than a perfect system in humans where a lymphatic system collects 
> material leaking from capillaries. which also
> 
> collects cellular debris and provides a route for cancer cells to spread from 
> organ to organ.

-- 
☣ uǝlƃ


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Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

[Vladimyr]

The Rete Mirable is two or more intimately woven systems that contain fluids. 
Fluids are in proximity but normally

never exchange contents, rather heat or gases flow/diffuse down to a lower 
concentration or gradient not the fluid.

Where the two systems engage, the gradient is the greatest where they terminate 
the gradient is near zero or equilibrium.

 

It is less than a perfect system in humans where a lymphatic system collects 
material leaking from capillaries. which also

collects cellular debris and provides a route for cancer cells to spread from 
organ to organ.

 

I have been preoccupied lately and my attendance has suffered. My apologies.

Vladimyr

 

 

From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Steven A Smith
Sent: August-24-18 11:52 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

 

Vladimyr -

Good to hear your voice here again...

Rete Mirable (Latin: miraculous net) seems to be the term/concept *I* was 
looking for here.  

I don't know if it has the persuasive nature Glen is searching for, or captures 
the full *diversity* of the interpenetrating "miraculous" nets, but it is great 
to find out there is an extant working term for these structures and the 
underlying processes supported.   I'm also happy to hear of the term 
"counter-current exchange system" in place of my more colloquial "reverse 
backflow system", though I was describing what is known as a decanted system 
which therefore acted as a countercurrent multiplier system.  

It is impressive that the term goes all the way back to Galen.  Yogi Berra said 
it best: "You can see a lot just by looking."

I sometimes think I need to add to my google fu technique doing a simple 
rendition of the concept in question into Latin and then searching for a few 
variations on the result.  I'm sure there is a Masters project in Natural 
Language processing or Computational Linguistics out there which has already 
implemented something like that?   I doubt I would have hit on "miraculous" in 
this context but maybe a Latin scholar would know intuitively that "mirable" 
was a likely adjective to be used in this kind of situation?

- Steve

 

On 8/22/18 6:23 PM, Vladimyr wrote:

anastomosis(circulatory) is the progressive branching of arteries down to 
capillaries.
The flow in the trunk line is accommodated by the sum of volumes downstream.
When such a network meshes with another closed network and the fluids in each 
are flowing in opposite directions. a counter-current
exchange system reduces the difference in gradients i.e. gases, heat flow.
Rete Mirable , the miraculous network that was first discovered in Tuna used to 
keep the blood warm.
There are  many such systems in the human body. 
vladimyr
-Original Message-
From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of u?l? ?
Sent: August-21-18 4:59 PM
To: FriAM
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word
 
Sorry for being vague.  By "matrixification", I made an attempt to suggest 
something like taking a single 1-dimensional thing (a tube) and splitting it 
into more than one thing, each of which is still 1-dimensional, but together 
approaching a higher dimension (2 or 3).
 
By "articulation", I intended something similar, taking something like a single 
tube and putting in *joints*, which might also provide branch points.  Two 
pipes connected by an angle will be more articulated than a single pipe (of the 
same length).  By extension, then, 3 pipes connected by a splitter will be more 
articulated than two pipes connected by an angle.
 
On 08/21/2018 02:36 PM, Steven A Smith wrote:

Matriculation does indeed seem to be related to "Matrix"  but 
apparently in the sense of embedding into a nourishing environment 
(womblike?) which makes some sense for the common use in "entering an 
institution such as a university or college".   I'm not sure what you 
meant by dimension reduction in this context?
 
You also mention "articulation" but my fumble-fingers had me finding 
"atriculation" instead and found (only?) in an urban dictionary: 1. To 
funnel information down; 2.) the trickle down effect of data that will 
lead you to one conclusion; 3. to vett.

 
 
--
☣ uǝlƃ
 

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Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

[Steven A Smith]

Vladimyr -

Good to hear your voice here again...

/Rete Mirable/ (Latin: miraculous net) seems to be the term/concept *I*
was looking for here. 

I don't know if it has the persuasive nature Glen is searching for, or
captures the full *diversity* of the interpenetrating "miraculous" nets,
but it is great to find out there is an extant working term for these
structures and the underlying processes supported.   I'm also happy to
hear of the term "counter-current exchange system" in place of my more
colloquial "reverse backflow system", though I was describing what is
known as a decanted system which therefore acted as a countercurrent
multiplier system. 

It is impressive that the term goes all the way back to Galen.  Yogi
Berra said it best: "You can see a lot just by looking."

I sometimes think I need to add to my google fu technique doing a simple
rendition of the concept in question into Latin and then searching for a
few variations on the result.  I'm sure there is a Masters project in
Natural Language processing or Computational Linguistics out there which
has already implemented something like that?   I doubt I would have hit
on "miraculous" in this context but maybe a Latin scholar would know
intuitively that "mirable" was a likely adjective to be used in this
kind of situation?

- Steve


On 8/22/18 6:23 PM, Vladimyr wrote:
> anastomosis(circulatory) is the progressive branching of arteries down to 
> capillaries.
> The flow in the trunk line is accommodated by the sum of volumes downstream.
> When such a network meshes with another closed network and the fluids in each 
> are flowing in opposite directions. a counter-current
> exchange system reduces the difference in gradients i.e. gases, heat flow.
> Rete Mirable , the miraculous network that was first discovered in Tuna used 
> to keep the blood warm.
> There are  many such systems in the human body. 
> vladimyr
> -Original Message-
> From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of u?l? ?
> Sent: August-21-18 4:59 PM
> To: FriAM
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word
>
> Sorry for being vague.  By "matrixification", I made an attempt to suggest 
> something like taking a single 1-dimensional thing (a tube) and splitting it 
> into more than one thing, each of which is still 1-dimensional, but together 
> approaching a higher dimension (2 or 3).
>
> By "articulation", I intended something similar, taking something like a 
> single tube and putting in *joints*, which might also provide branch points.  
> Two pipes connected by an angle will be more articulated than a single pipe 
> (of the same length).  By extension, then, 3 pipes connected by a splitter 
> will be more articulated than two pipes connected by an angle.
>
> On 08/21/2018 02:36 PM, Steven A Smith wrote:
>> Matriculation does indeed seem to be related to "Matrix"  but 
>> apparently in the sense of embedding into a nourishing environment 
>> (womblike?) which makes some sense for the common use in "entering an 
>> institution such as a university or college".   I'm not sure what you 
>> meant by dimension reduction in this context?
>>
>> You also mention "articulation" but my fumble-fingers had me finding 
>> "atriculation" instead and found (only?) in an urban dictionary: 1. To 
>> funnel information down; 2.) the trickle down effect of data that will 
>> lead you to one conclusion; 3. to vett.
>
> --
> ☣ uǝlƃ
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe 
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>
>
> 
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>


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Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

[Vladimyr]

anastomosis(circulatory) is the progressive branching of arteries down to 
capillaries.
The flow in the trunk line is accommodated by the sum of volumes downstream.
When such a network meshes with another closed network and the fluids in each 
are flowing in opposite directions. a counter-current
exchange system reduces the difference in gradients i.e. gases, heat flow.
Rete Mirable , the miraculous network that was first discovered in Tuna used to 
keep the blood warm.
There are  many such systems in the human body. 
vladimyr
-Original Message-
From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of u?l? ?
Sent: August-21-18 4:59 PM
To: FriAM
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

Sorry for being vague.  By "matrixification", I made an attempt to suggest 
something like taking a single 1-dimensional thing (a tube) and splitting it 
into more than one thing, each of which is still 1-dimensional, but together 
approaching a higher dimension (2 or 3).

By "articulation", I intended something similar, taking something like a single 
tube and putting in *joints*, which might also provide branch points.  Two 
pipes connected by an angle will be more articulated than a single pipe (of the 
same length).  By extension, then, 3 pipes connected by a splitter will be more 
articulated than two pipes connected by an angle.

On 08/21/2018 02:36 PM, Steven A Smith wrote:
> Matriculation does indeed seem to be related to "Matrix"  but 
> apparently in the sense of embedding into a nourishing environment 
> (womblike?) which makes some sense for the common use in "entering an 
> institution such as a university or college".   I'm not sure what you 
> meant by dimension reduction in this context?
> 
> You also mention "articulation" but my fumble-fingers had me finding 
> "atriculation" instead and found (only?) in an urban dictionary: 1. To 
> funnel information down; 2.) the trickle down effect of data that will 
> lead you to one conclusion; 3. to vett.


--
☣ uǝlƃ


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Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

[Carl Tollander]

Alluvium.   Thus, Alluvia.



On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 9:53 PM, Gary Schiltz 
wrote:

> Arriving late to the party... how about “branch point” or “branch node”?
> Maybe “fork off point” ;-)
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
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>
>

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Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

[Gary Schiltz]

Arriving late to the party... how about “branch point” or “branch node”?
Maybe “fork off point” ;-)

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Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

[uǝlƃ ☣]

Sorry for being vague.  By "matrixification", I made an attempt to suggest 
something like taking a single 1-dimensional thing (a tube) and splitting it 
into more than one thing, each of which is still 1-dimensional, but together 
approaching a higher dimension (2 or 3).

By "articulation", I intended something similar, taking something like a single 
tube and putting in *joints*, which might also provide branch points.  Two 
pipes connected by an angle will be more articulated than a single pipe (of the 
same length).  By extension, then, 3 pipes connected by a splitter will be more 
articulated than two pipes connected by an angle.

On 08/21/2018 02:36 PM, Steven A Smith wrote:
> Matriculation does indeed seem to be related to "Matrix"  but apparently
> in the sense of embedding into a nourishing environment (womblike?)
> which makes some sense for the common use in "entering an institution
> such as a university or college".   I'm not sure what you meant by
> dimension reduction in this context?
> 
> You also mention "articulation" but my fumble-fingers had me finding
> "atriculation" instead and found (only?) in an urban dictionary: 1. To
> funnel information down; 2.) the trickle down effect of data that will
> lead you to one conclusion; 3. to vett.


-- 
☣ uǝlƃ


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Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

[Steven A Smith]

Glen -
>> Reticulation is much more powerful, I think.  But, yes, it seems to target 
>> the leaves or the most-fractalized part of the network.  But that brings to 
>> mind: "matriculation" (from matrix) and "articulation", for whatever reason. 
>>  
Matriculation does indeed seem to be related to "Matrix"  but apparently
in the sense of embedding into a nourishing environment (womblike?)
which makes some sense for the common use in "entering an institution
such as a university or college".   I'm not sure what you meant by
dimension reduction in this context?

You also mention "articulation" but my fumble-fingers had me finding
"atriculation" instead and found (only?) in an urban dictionary: 1. To
funnel information down; 2.) the trickle down effect of data that will
lead you to one conclusion; 3. to vett.



Slip-sliding around in phoneto-typographic space...

- Steve



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Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

[Steven A Smith]

Glen -
> Well, I did mention "plexus" in the very first post.  So, perhaps all the 
> word needs is a champion!
That would explain why we didn't mention it!  Out of deference to the OP
(you, who also became the champion)?   Doh!   When prompted here I
*vaguely* remember dismissing it as too pop-sounding to give any
interest to... funny what proper socialization can do!
> Anastomosis seems to be more like a shunt around the type of networked 
> structure we're talking about.  Or, at least, the etymology seems to talk 
> about connecting two whole openings "make a hole"! 8^)
I agree that on the surface, this is correct, though in
medical/anatomical contexts, it appears that the *dysfunctional* version
of this is a "fistula"  

I *think* that just above the cellular level, this is where the "good
work" is happening... all the networking is about
distribution/aggregation which you have already discussed the
"sorting by many methods" seems to be happening at this finer level
(porosity of the endothelial lining, ductules, etc.).    So I would
counter "shunt around" with "shunts amongst" perhaps?   There is an
abrupt shift in the nature of structure when we reach the cellular level
(the physical size of blood cells, endothelial cells, etc.) and rather
than continued shrinking of the same organ(elle?) (veinous structures)
we start having partial-cell-size voids/pores between cells (and
collections of smaller cells forming ductules?), etc to effect "a little
more" scaling and then begin to allow/mediate transport between
differing networks (anastomosis)?
> Reticulation is much more powerful, I think.  But, yes, it seems to target 
> the leaves or the most-fractalized part of the network.  But that brings to 
> mind: "matriculation" (from matrix) and "articulation", for whatever reason.  
> The branching being done by these systems is "matrixifying" ... splitting the 
> dimensions from a low number to a high number (for efferent) and the reverse 
> for afferent.
I wonder at this idea of "splitting of dimensions".   It seems more like
*mainly* a subdivision of space down to some threshold (cellular or
organelle level)? where the diffusion-like system takes over.   This
seems like the point at which the hierarchichal is replaced by the
reticulated?   There is no more need/point/opportunity for reducing
scale, and simply optimizing flow through the bed/plenum is the goal?

Some of the other discussion about the point of the afferent/efferent
hierarchy/ self-similar branching, etc. seems "obvious" in that this
type of branching conserves flow?   I'm probably missing some subtlety
here... "of course" the major vein/artery must carry the same volume of
fluid as the next level of scale collectively carries, no down to the
cappilary level in the same way that the sum  total tiniest of rivulets
in a watershed must match (give or take evaporation, etc.) the outflow
of the main channel... 
>
> It's bizarre, really.  I'm reminded of Luc Steels' "language games", where 
> the suggestion is that the root of language lies in the ability to _point_ at 
> some concrete thing.  If you draw any one of these networks, I can draw an 
> oval around the part I'm referring to and say "I'm talking about THAT part.  
> Not the other part over there.  THAT part."  (The part excluding the trunk of 
> the tree, excluding the foliage, etc. ... just containing the part after 
> branching begins and before the branching is complete.)  Like Steels' robots, 
> I could make any random bleeping noise to name the part of the network at 
> which I'm pointing and everyone would understand. [sigh]
And as many of us are too familiar, if you keep using a word often
enough ("Plexus, plexus, plexus"... it becomes indistinguishable from
"bleep, bleep, bleep..."!

"bleep!"
- Steve


>
>
> On 08/21/2018 11:41 AM, Steven A Smith wrote:
>> I can't believe none of us offered up "plexus" along the way!  
>>
>> I think your invocation of "bed" *IS* maybe better served by "plenum"
>> and I can see how the portmanteau of plenum and nexus naturally arrive
>> at "plexus" as suggested.   Plenum seems to connote "mixing" not just
>> collection/distribution whereas "bed" seems a bit more static.
>>
>> I always thought that the engineering use of "manifold" was modestly
>> disingenous, abusing the more abstract purity of the mathematical
>> "manifold".   Propogating the engineering use into biology would seem
>> only to aggravate the abuse?   Of course, this *IS* how language
>> evolves, so who am I to say?
>>
>> While I am most familiar with the obvious nerve-bundle plexuses (solar
>> plexus, lumbar plexus, brachial plexus, sacral plexus, etc.) a little
>> review on the internet shows that the term is also used in lymphatic and
>> blood systems (collectively "veinous"?), including the blood-brain.
>>
>> The concept (word?) I have been in search of since you first brought
>> this up turns out to be "anastomose" which describes the interconnection
>> between networks 

Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

[uǝlƃ ☣]

Well, I did mention "plexus" in the very first post.  So, perhaps all the word 
needs is a champion!

Anastomosis seems to be more like a shunt around the type of networked 
structure we're talking about.  Or, at least, the etymology seems to talk about 
connecting two whole openings "make a hole"! 8^)

Reticulation is much more powerful, I think.  But, yes, it seems to target the 
leaves or the most-fractalized part of the network.  But that brings to mind: 
"matriculation" (from matrix) and "articulation", for whatever reason.  The 
branching being done by these systems is "matrixifying" ... splitting the 
dimensions from a low number to a high number (for efferent) and the reverse 
for afferent.

It's bizarre, really.  I'm reminded of Luc Steels' "language games", where the 
suggestion is that the root of language lies in the ability to _point_ at some 
concrete thing.  If you draw any one of these networks, I can draw an oval 
around the part I'm referring to and say "I'm talking about THAT part.  Not the 
other part over there.  THAT part."  (The part excluding the trunk of the tree, 
excluding the foliage, etc. ... just containing the part after branching begins 
and before the branching is complete.)  Like Steels' robots, I could make any 
random bleeping noise to name the part of the network at which I'm pointing and 
everyone would understand. [sigh]


On 08/21/2018 11:41 AM, Steven A Smith wrote:
> I can't believe none of us offered up "plexus" along the way!  
> 
> I think your invocation of "bed" *IS* maybe better served by "plenum"
> and I can see how the portmanteau of plenum and nexus naturally arrive
> at "plexus" as suggested.   Plenum seems to connote "mixing" not just
> collection/distribution whereas "bed" seems a bit more static.
> 
> I always thought that the engineering use of "manifold" was modestly
> disingenous, abusing the more abstract purity of the mathematical
> "manifold".   Propogating the engineering use into biology would seem
> only to aggravate the abuse?   Of course, this *IS* how language
> evolves, so who am I to say?
> 
> While I am most familiar with the obvious nerve-bundle plexuses (solar
> plexus, lumbar plexus, brachial plexus, sacral plexus, etc.) a little
> review on the internet shows that the term is also used in lymphatic and
> blood systems (collectively "veinous"?), including the blood-brain.
> 
> The concept (word?) I have been in search of since you first brought
> this up turns out to be "anastomose" which describes the interconnection
> between networks (of possibly different qualities?).
> 
>     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anastomosis
> 
> I also encountered the term "reticulation" which might also be
> *structurally* relevant to what is happening in the "bed" or "plenum"
> you are considering?

-- 
☣ uǝlƃ


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Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

[Steven A Smith]

Thanks for this twist Eric...

We all know "you can verbize any noun"...

it is interesting to see that to "nounize an adjective, but you must do
it by way of a transitive verb"

I think that in the sense of linguistic and mathematical transitivity,
maybe one of the features found in the structures Glen is studying is 
"ambitransitivity"?   To use linguistics as the metaphorical target
domain opens up a whole new can of worms (to use an fisherman's or
perhaps organic gardner's domain as target?) on the question (or would
it be better to open up a big ole' can of whoop-ass or perhaps popeye's
spinach instead?).

Ambitransitive verbs can be used with both direct objects or not.  
Transitivity seems to roughly correlate with direct action/consequence
and more indirect action (afferent/efferent implies an object while bed
and plenum (and manifold?) might not so much?).


Mumble...



On 8/21/18 9:22 AM, Eric Smith wrote:
> Glen,
>
> I haven’t followed this thread closely enough to have a good sense of what 
> you are after, so apologies if this is off point.
>
> When you first asked, and hadn’t talked yet about specifically tree-like 
> networks, I was thinking that the converging end could borrow the term 
> “coalescent” from population genetics.  I don’t think the geneticists have a 
> corresponding word for the final-time data that it is the purpose of the 
> coalescent to assign a history to, but I guess the counterpart would be the 
> “divergent”.  That would have been a strange notion for a merely-concentrated 
> part of a network that wasn’t both treelike and directed in some sense, so I 
> stayed quiet.  But it seems treelike networks with sources and destinations 
> are still in the conversation.
>
> Of course this has the problem that both words are natively adjectives, 
> themselves derived from transitive verbs, which have now been repurposed as 
> nouns in technical fields.  But maybe in linguistic typology that isn’t so 
> uncommon (Bill Croft has told me this, but I don’t have a particularly good 
> reference.  Perhaps
> http://www.unm.edu/~wcroft/WACabst.html
> or his book(s?))
>
> Best,
> Eric
>
>
>
>> On Aug 21, 2018, at 9:50 AM, ∄ uǝʃƃ  wrote:
>>
>> "Plenum" is a fantastic idea. I rejected "manifold" originally because I've 
>> tried to use it in conversations with biologists before and it just didn't 
>> seem to communicate the idea. It baffles me a bit because the word is so 
>> directly available as "many folds".  But perhaps it's too 
>> engineering-oriented.  Plenum may well be what I'm looking for, though.  It 
>> has similar problems to "plexus", though, in its etymology.  Where "plexus" 
>> can imply braiding where the threads don't merge/branch, but merely 
>> criss-cross, "plenum" can mean "full space", which might well refer to the 
>> center of the bed (leaf nodes in the lung or tree case, smallest diameter in 
>> the capillary bed case) where the network comes closest to filling the 
>> space.  Plexus has an advantage over plenum, though, because it's already 
>> used in the way I want.  E.g. afferent and efferent plexuses.
>>
>> On 08/20/2018 10:18 PM, Robert J. Cordingley wrote:
>>> Whatever happened to 'inlet or exhaust manifolds' or 'plenum'? (The 
>>> exhausts from the 7 cyclone sets come together in a plenum before exiting 
>>> the reactor.) Too mundane?
>> -- 
>> ∄ uǝʃƃ
>>
>> 
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>
> 
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Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

[Marcus Daniels]

In most computational modeling of phylogeny, there are not directional 
transformations (as the name "filtration" suggests), but reversible 
transformations of DNA in a genome (e.g. transitions/tranversions of 
purines/pyrimidines).   

On 8/21/18, 12:34 PM, "Friam on behalf of uǝlƃ ☣"  wrote:

Coalescence is a very nice sidetrack, actually.  It, again, takes me back 
to the notion of *a* filtration, in particular ascending and descending 
filtrations.  A brief hunt for a good antonym of "coalesce" lands me on 
"fractionated".  I like that better than the temporal implications (evoked in 
*me* even if nobody else) of divergent.  The volume of space is *rationed* 
amongst the branches sprouted from a tree trunk, much like the volume of tissue 
is divied up amongst the sinusoids sprouted from the portal vein in the liver.  
And I can say the same thing about the other side.  The tissue is 
fractioned/rationed/divied up amongst the sinusoids that lead into the liver's 
output.

Such a fractionated (fractioned? rationed? "binned"?) region can be talked 
about independent of the direction of flow.

And this idea of divying up the space carries with it some sort of agency, 
functionality, or purpose beyond the more objective terms like plexus or 
plenum, which could be engineered or natural.  Divied up how? Why? What is 
being optimized by tree branching, basin canalization, dendritic spreading, etc?

On 08/21/2018 08:22 AM, Eric Smith wrote:
> When you first asked, and hadn’t talked yet about specifically tree-like 
networks, I was thinking that the converging end could borrow the term 
“coalescent” from population genetics.  I don’t think the geneticists have a 
corresponding word for the final-time data that it is the purpose of the 
coalescent to assign a history to, but I guess the counterpart would be the 
“divergent”.  That would have been a strange notion for a merely-concentrated 
part of a network that wasn’t both treelike and directed in some sense, so I 
stayed quiet.  But it seems treelike networks with sources and destinations are 
still in the conversation.
> 
> Of course this has the problem that both words are natively adjectives, 
themselves derived from transitive verbs, which have now been repurposed as 
nouns in technical fields.  But maybe in linguistic typology that isn’t so 
uncommon (Bill Croft has told me this, but I don’t have a particularly good 
reference.  Perhaps
> http://www.unm.edu/~wcroft/WACabst.html
> or his book(s?))

-- 
☣ uǝlƃ


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Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

[Steven A Smith]

∄ uǝʃƃ -

I can't believe none of us offered up "plexus" along the way!  

I think your invocation of "bed" *IS* maybe better served by "plenum"
and I can see how the portmanteau of plenum and nexus naturally arrive
at "plexus" as suggested.   Plenum seems to connote "mixing" not just
collection/distribution whereas "bed" seems a bit more static.

I always thought that the engineering use of "manifold" was modestly
disingenous, abusing the more abstract purity of the mathematical
"manifold".   Propogating the engineering use into biology would seem
only to aggravate the abuse?   Of course, this *IS* how language
evolves, so who am I to say?

While I am most familiar with the obvious nerve-bundle plexuses (solar
plexus, lumbar plexus, brachial plexus, sacral plexus, etc.) a little
review on the internet shows that the term is also used in lymphatic and
blood systems (collectively "veinous"?), including the blood-brain.

The concept (word?) I have been in search of since you first brought
this up turns out to be "anastomose" which describes the interconnection
between networks (of possibly different qualities?).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anastomosis

I also encountered the term "reticulation" which might also be
*structurally* relevant to what is happening in the "bed" or "plenum"
you are considering?

The following is one of the more compelling images I found regarding the
Liver Lobules you are working with:



I do find the general structure/function study implied with the myriad
networks interpenetrating here intriguing.   Nerve, blood, lymph, both
afferent and efferent do seem to interpenetrate throughout the body.  
More specialized structures (e.g. Liver) add yet more such as bile and
the chemically different composition of blood flowing from liver to
kidney vs heart to liver vs intestine to liver (etc.).

The hepatic sinusoid you referenced is an interesting structure...  or
more to the point sinusoids throughout the many "filtering" or
"exchange" tissues in the body.

Fenestrated endothelium seems to be one of the significant mechanisms
for the chemical "sorting" that goes on?

Strangely, this function/structure study parallels a current fascination
I have with the cross-boundary *human* networks involved in various
at-risk populations in the world (opposite sides of the US border,
including criminal/gang networks, but also family networks, aid
organizations, etc...  Middle East and North Africa refugee
sources/sinks, and the current prison workers union/strike
movements   inside/outside the Catholic Church heirarchy/flock... etc.)

Art imitates life?  Life imitates life!

- Steve


On 8/21/18 7:50 AM, ∄ uǝʃƃ wrote:
> "Plenum" is a fantastic idea. I rejected "manifold" originally because I've 
> tried to use it in conversations with biologists before and it just didn't 
> seem to communicate the idea. It baffles me a bit because the word is so 
> directly available as "many folds".  But perhaps it's too 
> engineering-oriented.  Plenum may well be what I'm looking for, though.  It 
> has similar problems to "plexus", though, in its etymology.  Where "plexus" 
> can imply braiding where the threads don't merge/branch, but merely 
> criss-cross, "plenum" can mean "full space", which might well refer to the 
> center of the bed (leaf nodes in the lung or tree case, smallest diameter in 
> the capillary bed case) where the network comes closest to filling the space. 
>  Plexus has an advantage over plenum, though, because it's already used in 
> the way I want.  E.g. afferent and efferent plexuses.
>
> On 08/20/2018 10:18 PM, Robert J. Cordingley wrote:
>> Whatever happened to 'inlet or exhaust manifolds' or 'plenum'? (The exhausts 
>> from the 7 cyclone sets come together in a plenum before exiting the 
>> reactor.) Too mundane?


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Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

[Eric Smith]

Very interesting.

In a rather different context, I was led to a word “apportionment”, which I 
think is similar in intent to your fractionation.  

The context was the inherent limitation of fitness as the term is used in 
population genetics, where it is required (by the roles it must play in 
Fisher’s Fundamental Theorem and the Price Equation) to be an apportionment.

God, I wonder what it must be like to be a real writer, and have some kind of 
command of the richness of this thing called language that we have all 
inherited.

> On Aug 21, 2018, at 2:33 PM, uǝlƃ ☣  wrote:
> 
> Coalescence is a very nice sidetrack, actually.  It, again, takes me back to 
> the notion of *a* filtration, in particular ascending and descending 
> filtrations.  A brief hunt for a good antonym of "coalesce" lands me on 
> "fractionated".  I like that better than the temporal implications (evoked in 
> *me* even if nobody else) of divergent.  The volume of space is *rationed* 
> amongst the branches sprouted from a tree trunk, much like the volume of 
> tissue is divied up amongst the sinusoids sprouted from the portal vein in 
> the liver.  And I can say the same thing about the other side.  The tissue is 
> fractioned/rationed/divied up amongst the sinusoids that lead into the 
> liver's output.
> 
> Such a fractionated (fractioned? rationed? "binned"?) region can be talked 
> about independent of the direction of flow.
> 
> And this idea of divying up the space carries with it some sort of agency, 
> functionality, or purpose beyond the more objective terms like plexus or 
> plenum, which could be engineered or natural.  Divied up how? Why? What is 
> being optimized by tree branching, basin canalization, dendritic spreading, 
> etc?
> 
> On 08/21/2018 08:22 AM, Eric Smith wrote:
>> When you first asked, and hadn’t talked yet about specifically tree-like 
>> networks, I was thinking that the converging end could borrow the term 
>> “coalescent” from population genetics.  I don’t think the geneticists have a 
>> corresponding word for the final-time data that it is the purpose of the 
>> coalescent to assign a history to, but I guess the counterpart would be the 
>> “divergent”.  That would have been a strange notion for a 
>> merely-concentrated part of a network that wasn’t both treelike and directed 
>> in some sense, so I stayed quiet.  But it seems treelike networks with 
>> sources and destinations are still in the conversation.
>> 
>> Of course this has the problem that both words are natively adjectives, 
>> themselves derived from transitive verbs, which have now been repurposed as 
>> nouns in technical fields.  But maybe in linguistic typology that isn’t so 
>> uncommon (Bill Croft has told me this, but I don’t have a particularly good 
>> reference.  Perhaps
>> http://www.unm.edu/~wcroft/WACabst.html
>> or his book(s?))
> 
> -- 
> ☣ uǝlƃ
> 
> 
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Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

[uǝlƃ ☣]

Coalescence is a very nice sidetrack, actually.  It, again, takes me back to 
the notion of *a* filtration, in particular ascending and descending 
filtrations.  A brief hunt for a good antonym of "coalesce" lands me on 
"fractionated".  I like that better than the temporal implications (evoked in 
*me* even if nobody else) of divergent.  The volume of space is *rationed* 
amongst the branches sprouted from a tree trunk, much like the volume of tissue 
is divied up amongst the sinusoids sprouted from the portal vein in the liver.  
And I can say the same thing about the other side.  The tissue is 
fractioned/rationed/divied up amongst the sinusoids that lead into the liver's 
output.

Such a fractionated (fractioned? rationed? "binned"?) region can be talked 
about independent of the direction of flow.

And this idea of divying up the space carries with it some sort of agency, 
functionality, or purpose beyond the more objective terms like plexus or 
plenum, which could be engineered or natural.  Divied up how? Why? What is 
being optimized by tree branching, basin canalization, dendritic spreading, etc?

On 08/21/2018 08:22 AM, Eric Smith wrote:
> When you first asked, and hadn’t talked yet about specifically tree-like 
> networks, I was thinking that the converging end could borrow the term 
> “coalescent” from population genetics.  I don’t think the geneticists have a 
> corresponding word for the final-time data that it is the purpose of the 
> coalescent to assign a history to, but I guess the counterpart would be the 
> “divergent”.  That would have been a strange notion for a merely-concentrated 
> part of a network that wasn’t both treelike and directed in some sense, so I 
> stayed quiet.  But it seems treelike networks with sources and destinations 
> are still in the conversation.
> 
> Of course this has the problem that both words are natively adjectives, 
> themselves derived from transitive verbs, which have now been repurposed as 
> nouns in technical fields.  But maybe in linguistic typology that isn’t so 
> uncommon (Bill Croft has told me this, but I don’t have a particularly good 
> reference.  Perhaps
> http://www.unm.edu/~wcroft/WACabst.html
> or his book(s?))

-- 
☣ uǝlƃ


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Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

[Eric Smith]

Glen,

I haven’t followed this thread closely enough to have a good sense of what you 
are after, so apologies if this is off point.

When you first asked, and hadn’t talked yet about specifically tree-like 
networks, I was thinking that the converging end could borrow the term 
“coalescent” from population genetics.  I don’t think the geneticists have a 
corresponding word for the final-time data that it is the purpose of the 
coalescent to assign a history to, but I guess the counterpart would be the 
“divergent”.  That would have been a strange notion for a merely-concentrated 
part of a network that wasn’t both treelike and directed in some sense, so I 
stayed quiet.  But it seems treelike networks with sources and destinations are 
still in the conversation.

Of course this has the problem that both words are natively adjectives, 
themselves derived from transitive verbs, which have now been repurposed as 
nouns in technical fields.  But maybe in linguistic typology that isn’t so 
uncommon (Bill Croft has told me this, but I don’t have a particularly good 
reference.  Perhaps
http://www.unm.edu/~wcroft/WACabst.html
or his book(s?))

Best,
Eric



> On Aug 21, 2018, at 9:50 AM, ∄ uǝʃƃ  wrote:
> 
> "Plenum" is a fantastic idea. I rejected "manifold" originally because I've 
> tried to use it in conversations with biologists before and it just didn't 
> seem to communicate the idea. It baffles me a bit because the word is so 
> directly available as "many folds".  But perhaps it's too 
> engineering-oriented.  Plenum may well be what I'm looking for, though.  It 
> has similar problems to "plexus", though, in its etymology.  Where "plexus" 
> can imply braiding where the threads don't merge/branch, but merely 
> criss-cross, "plenum" can mean "full space", which might well refer to the 
> center of the bed (leaf nodes in the lung or tree case, smallest diameter in 
> the capillary bed case) where the network comes closest to filling the space. 
>  Plexus has an advantage over plenum, though, because it's already used in 
> the way I want.  E.g. afferent and efferent plexuses.
> 
> On 08/20/2018 10:18 PM, Robert J. Cordingley wrote:
>> Whatever happened to 'inlet or exhaust manifolds' or 'plenum'? (The exhausts 
>> from the 7 cyclone sets come together in a plenum before exiting the 
>> reactor.) Too mundane?
> 
> -- 
> ∄ uǝʃƃ
> 
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
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> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove



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Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

[∄ uǝʃƃ]

"Plenum" is a fantastic idea. I rejected "manifold" originally because I've 
tried to use it in conversations with biologists before and it just didn't seem 
to communicate the idea. It baffles me a bit because the word is so directly 
available as "many folds".  But perhaps it's too engineering-oriented.  Plenum 
may well be what I'm looking for, though.  It has similar problems to "plexus", 
though, in its etymology.  Where "plexus" can imply braiding where the threads 
don't merge/branch, but merely criss-cross, "plenum" can mean "full space", 
which might well refer to the center of the bed (leaf nodes in the lung or tree 
case, smallest diameter in the capillary bed case) where the network comes 
closest to filling the space.  Plexus has an advantage over plenum, though, 
because it's already used in the way I want.  E.g. afferent and efferent 
plexuses.

On 08/20/2018 10:18 PM, Robert J. Cordingley wrote:
> Whatever happened to 'inlet or exhaust manifolds' or 'plenum'? (The exhausts 
> from the 7 cyclone sets come together in a plenum before exiting the 
> reactor.) Too mundane?

-- 
∄ uǝʃƃ


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Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

[uǝlƃ ☣]

Thanks, everyone!  These are all excellent leads.  And, yes, the reason 
"filtration" is evocative is because the liver filters the blood (as well as 
the methodological map to indexing structures).  And the space-filling nature 
of rivers and neural and tree growth, I think, impacts such filtration 
directly.  It's "fractal" in the sense of optimizing some thing like surface 
area. My (not a biologist) guess is that all exchange mechanisms use such a 
"bed". Lungs branch out for gas exchange. The liver branches out and in.  The 
whole system is the "bed" ... or the "foliage".  What I need is a word for a 
part of the bed.  We have a word for things like the "trunk" or the "stem".

But "dendrometry" is similar to "persistent homology" in the sense that it's a 
generic term for the *property* exhibited by some system.  What I'm looking for 
would be "the *part* of the system with dendrometry = X" or "the part of the 
system exhibiting the persent homology of X".  So, it has to be a noun.

The ideas like "type X hub" or "convergent node" or "junction node" are more 
on-target grammatically.  And, I need some directionality to it, too.  The 
input for the liver acinus is divergent, whereas the output is convergent.  
Ideally, I could refer to either of them and just plop a qualifier like con- or 
div- on the front.

I think it was Roger's "dendrite" idea made me think of "sprout" ... "bushy 
sprouts" versus "singular sprouts" or somesuch.  But what's the inverse of 
"sprout"?

I don't know.  I'll be boggled if there isn't *already* a word for this "just 
branching" or "just de-branching" component of a larger network.


On 08/19/2018 08:10 AM, Steven A Smith wrote:

> I'm still puzzling over whether Glen has a deeper or more subtle
> structure than the "mere"interpenetrating branching structures implied
> say by capillaries, where the in/out flow is exchanged.  I am sensing
> that there is something "special" about the interface between
> hierarchical flows and diffusion systems?   The veins/arteries
> deliver/remove blood but there is another type of exchange that goes on
> in between which is more than diffusion which sort of implies homogenous
> structure?

-- 
☣ uǝlƃ


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Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

[Steven A Smith]

Roger -

I think you made it up well, and it does apply.   I was surprised the
first time I discovered that the dendro of neural "branching" derived
from tree-structures.

I'm still puzzling over whether Glen has a deeper or more subtle
structure than the "mere"interpenetrating branching structures implied
say by capillaries, where the in/out flow is exchanged.  I am sensing
that there is something "special" about the interface between
hierarchical flows and diffusion systems?   The veins/arteries
deliver/remove blood but there is another type of exchange that goes on
in between which is more than diffusion which sort of implies homogenous
structure?

- Steve


On 8/18/18 11:15 PM, Roger Critchlow wrote:
> I hadn't thought of trees explicitly, I was working the branching
> geometries of neural dendrites and crystals.  But trees are a fine
> example as well, and the exemplar of the class of all tree
> structures.  / /I thought the branchedness of the blood flow into and
> out of the liver was the whole point of Glen's question.  Dendrometry
> in the abstract would be the study of branching structures to find
> where the branchedness is essential to the phenomena under study.  I
> thought I was making it up, maybe next time.
>
> -- rec --
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 11:28 AM Steven A Smith  > wrote:
>
> Roger -
>
> Interesting to introduce Dendrometry (tree growth) as _yet
> another_ metaphorical target domain beyond the liquid flow,
> erosion/sedimentation of rivers.
>
> Is there something in tree (plants in general?) growth that is
> specifically apt for this purpose?  Or were you perhaps using
> Dendrometr(i)y in a more creative sense?  Referencing neural
> growth/function/topology?  Dendodendritic and Axodendritic
> synapses might be relevant?
>
> Trees represent a more "intentional" transport system it would
> seem than riverine systems, though if one includes the organic
> aspects such as the bosque/etc. maybe not.
>
> It doesn't seem (too?) unreasonable to imagine that the Liver (a
> broad-purpose chemical synthesis factory?) has some
> useful/interesting/relevant analogs in trees/plants?   While a
> tree is nominally 3 dimensional, it is also nearly 1-dimensional
> in the sense that the cross-section of the trunk(s), branches,
> twigs, twiglets, etc are very similar and within them, they are
> radially symmetric.  
>
> I am wondering if "braided" branch/root systems like Banyan Vines
> might offer some insight?
>
> This is all probably too far afield for Glen's original question
> but I can't help but wander a bit on this one?
>
> - Steve
>
>
>
> On 8/18/18 4:42 AM, Roger Critchlow wrote:
>> Ah, the dendrometriy of the software must agree with those of the
>> organ.
>>
>> Speaking of categorical imperatives, anyone trying to follow John
>> Baez' online course in Applied Category Theory? 
>> 
>> https://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/2018/03/26/seven-sketches-in-compositionality/
>>
>> -- rec --
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 6:31 AM Stephen Guerin
>> mailto:redfishgroup...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Also internal vertex/node or branch vertex/node
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 18, 2018, 12:29 PM Stephen Guerin
>> > > wrote:
>>
>> Conflux is the the place where two rivers join. More
>> generally in a directed acyclic graph I would say
>> junction node or use the negative non-leaf nodes 
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 18, 2018, 12:09 PM Roger Critchlow
>> mailto:r...@elf.org>> wrote:
>>
>> I was thinking dendrite -- which refers to branching
>> structures in crystals as well as neurons -- this
>> dawn, the proper portmanteau would then be dendrectic
>> or dendrexus.
>>
>> -- rec -- 
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 3:06 AM Jochen Fromm
>> mailto:j...@cas-group.net>> wrote:
>>
>> They say Germans have a word for everything
>> because we can chain words together like pearls
>> on a string. In German I would say
>> "Netzwerkverzweigung"
>> (network-branching/bifurcation) or
>> "Netzwerkverdichtung"
>> (network-consolidation/concentration). In one
>> case the density decreases, in the other case it
>> decreases. Something like that, but it is not a
>> perfect fit.  
>>
>> - Jochen
>>
>>
>>  Original message 
>> From: uǝlƃ ☣ > >
>> Date: 8/17/18 19:47 (GMT+01:00)
>> To: FriAM > 

Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

[Roger Critchlow]

I hadn't thought of trees explicitly, I was working the branching
geometries of neural dendrites and crystals.  But trees are a fine example
as well, and the exemplar of the class of all tree structures.   I thought
the branchedness of the blood flow into and out of the liver was the whole
point of Glen's question.  Dendrometry in the abstract would be the study
of branching structures to find where the branchedness is essential to the
phenomena under study.  I thought I was making it up, maybe next time.

-- rec --


On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 11:28 AM Steven A Smith  wrote:

> Roger -
>
> Interesting to introduce Dendrometry (tree growth) as _yet another_
> metaphorical target domain beyond the liquid flow, erosion/sedimentation of
> rivers.
>
> Is there something in tree (plants in general?) growth that is
> specifically apt for this purpose?  Or were you perhaps using
> Dendrometr(i)y in a more creative sense?  Referencing neural
> growth/function/topology?  Dendodendritic and Axodendritic synapses might
> be relevant?
> Trees represent a more "intentional" transport system it would seem than
> riverine systems, though if one includes the organic aspects such as the
> bosque/etc. maybe not.
>
> It doesn't seem (too?) unreasonable to imagine that the Liver (a
> broad-purpose chemical synthesis factory?) has some
> useful/interesting/relevant analogs in trees/plants?   While a tree is
> nominally 3 dimensional, it is also nearly 1-dimensional in the sense that
> the cross-section of the trunk(s), branches, twigs, twiglets, etc are very
> similar and within them, they are radially symmetric.
>
> I am wondering if "braided" branch/root systems like Banyan Vines might
> offer some insight?
>
> This is all probably too far afield for Glen's original question but I
> can't help but wander a bit on this one?
>
> - Steve
>
>
>
> On 8/18/18 4:42 AM, Roger Critchlow wrote:
>
> Ah, the dendrometriy of the software must agree with those of the organ.
>
> Speaking of categorical imperatives, anyone trying to follow John Baez'
> online course in Applied Category Theory?
> https://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/2018/03/26/seven-sketches-in-compositionality/
>
> -- rec --
>
> On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 6:31 AM Stephen Guerin 
> wrote:
>
>> Also internal vertex/node or branch vertex/node
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 18, 2018, 12:29 PM Stephen Guerin 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Conflux is the the place where two rivers join. More generally in a
>>> directed acyclic graph I would say junction node or use the negative
>>> non-leaf nodes
>>>
>>> On Sat, Aug 18, 2018, 12:09 PM Roger Critchlow  wrote:
>>>
 I was thinking dendrite -- which refers to branching structures in
 crystals as well as neurons -- this dawn, the proper portmanteau would then
 be dendrectic or dendrexus.

 -- rec --


 On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 3:06 AM Jochen Fromm 
 wrote:

> They say Germans have a word for everything because we can chain words
> together like pearls on a string. In German I would say
> "Netzwerkverzweigung" (network-branching/bifurcation) or
> "Netzwerkverdichtung" (network-consolidation/concentration). In one case
> the density decreases, in the other case it decreases. Something like 
> that,
> but it is not a perfect fit.
>
> - Jochen
>
>
>  Original message 
> From: uǝlƃ ☣ 
> Date: 8/17/18 19:47 (GMT+01:00)
> To: FriAM 
> Subject: [FRIAM] looking for a word
>
> I need a word (or short phrase) to refer to the portion of a network
> where the edges converge or diverge (more than other parts of the network.
> Examples might be a river delta or the branching (debranching?) of blood
> vessels or lungs.  "Plexus" or "knot" don't work because they could
> ambiguously refer to something like a tapestry or ... well, a knot, where
> each thread remains separate, but winds around other threads.  Something
> close to "canalization" seems appropriate. But I don't want to imply the
> generation (or dissolution) of the thing.  E.g. [arter|ang]iogenesis are
> not the type of words I'm looking for.
>
> There's got to be a good word for such, perhaps from graph theory or
> "network theory".  Any help will be rewarded by an IOU for a pint of beer.
> 8^)
>
> --
> ☣ uǝlƃ
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. 

Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

[Steven A Smith]

Roger -

Interesting to introduce Dendrometry (tree growth) as _yet another_
metaphorical target domain beyond the liquid flow, erosion/sedimentation
of rivers.

Is there something in tree (plants in general?) growth that is
specifically apt for this purpose?  Or were you perhaps using
Dendrometr(i)y in a more creative sense?  Referencing neural
growth/function/topology?  Dendodendritic and Axodendritic synapses
might be relevant?

Trees represent a more "intentional" transport system it would seem than
riverine systems, though if one includes the organic aspects such as the
bosque/etc. maybe not.

It doesn't seem (too?) unreasonable to imagine that the Liver (a
broad-purpose chemical synthesis factory?) has some
useful/interesting/relevant analogs in trees/plants?   While a tree is
nominally 3 dimensional, it is also nearly 1-dimensional in the sense
that the cross-section of the trunk(s), branches, twigs, twiglets, etc
are very similar and within them, they are radially symmetric.  

I am wondering if "braided" branch/root systems like Banyan Vines might
offer some insight?

This is all probably too far afield for Glen's original question but I
can't help but wander a bit on this one?

- Steve



On 8/18/18 4:42 AM, Roger Critchlow wrote:
> Ah, the dendrometriy of the software must agree with those of the organ.
>
> Speaking of categorical imperatives, anyone trying to follow John
> Baez' online course in Applied Category Theory? 
> https://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/2018/03/26/seven-sketches-in-compositionality/
>
> -- rec --
>
> On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 6:31 AM Stephen Guerin
> mailto:redfishgroup...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Also internal vertex/node or branch vertex/node
>
> On Sat, Aug 18, 2018, 12:29 PM Stephen Guerin
> mailto:redfishgroup...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Conflux is the the place where two rivers join. More generally
> in a directed acyclic graph I would say junction node or use
> the negative non-leaf nodes 
>
> On Sat, Aug 18, 2018, 12:09 PM Roger Critchlow  > wrote:
>
> I was thinking dendrite -- which refers to branching
> structures in crystals as well as neurons -- this dawn,
> the proper portmanteau would then be dendrectic or dendrexus.
>
> -- rec -- 
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 3:06 AM Jochen Fromm
> mailto:j...@cas-group.net>> wrote:
>
> They say Germans have a word for everything because we
> can chain words together like pearls on a string. In
> German I would say "Netzwerkverzweigung"
> (network-branching/bifurcation) or
> "Netzwerkverdichtung"
> (network-consolidation/concentration). In one case the
> density decreases, in the other case it decreases.
> Something like that, but it is not a perfect fit.  
>
> - Jochen
>
>
>  Original message 
> From: uǝlƃ ☣  >
> Date: 8/17/18 19:47 (GMT+01:00)
> To: FriAM mailto:friam@redfish.com>>
> Subject: [FRIAM] looking for a word
>
> I need a word (or short phrase) to refer to the
> portion of a network where the edges converge or
> diverge (more than other parts of the network. 
> Examples might be a river delta or the branching
> (debranching?) of blood vessels or lungs.  "Plexus" or
> "knot" don't work because they could ambiguously refer
> to something like a tapestry or ... well, a knot,
> where each thread remains separate, but winds around
> other threads.  Something close to "canalization"
> seems appropriate. But I don't want to imply the
> generation (or dissolution) of the thing.  E.g.
> [arter|ang]iogenesis are not the type of words I'm
> looking for.
>
> There's got to be a good word for such, perhaps from
> graph theory or "network theory".  Any help will be
> rewarded by an IOU for a pint of beer. 8^)
>
> -- 
> ☣ uǝlƃ
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe
> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr.
> Strangelove
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. 

Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

[Roger Critchlow]

Ah, the dendrometriy of the software must agree with those of the organ.

Speaking of categorical imperatives, anyone trying to follow John Baez'
online course in Applied Category Theory?
https://johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com/2018/03/26/seven-sketches-in-compositionality/

-- rec --

On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 6:31 AM Stephen Guerin 
wrote:

> Also internal vertex/node or branch vertex/node
>
> On Sat, Aug 18, 2018, 12:29 PM Stephen Guerin 
> wrote:
>
>> Conflux is the the place where two rivers join. More generally in a
>> directed acyclic graph I would say junction node or use the negative
>> non-leaf nodes
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 18, 2018, 12:09 PM Roger Critchlow  wrote:
>>
>>> I was thinking dendrite -- which refers to branching structures in
>>> crystals as well as neurons -- this dawn, the proper portmanteau would then
>>> be dendrectic or dendrexus.
>>>
>>> -- rec --
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 3:06 AM Jochen Fromm  wrote:
>>>
 They say Germans have a word for everything because we can chain words
 together like pearls on a string. In German I would say
 "Netzwerkverzweigung" (network-branching/bifurcation) or
 "Netzwerkverdichtung" (network-consolidation/concentration). In one case
 the density decreases, in the other case it decreases. Something like that,
 but it is not a perfect fit.

 - Jochen


  Original message 
 From: uǝlƃ ☣ 
 Date: 8/17/18 19:47 (GMT+01:00)
 To: FriAM 
 Subject: [FRIAM] looking for a word

 I need a word (or short phrase) to refer to the portion of a network
 where the edges converge or diverge (more than other parts of the network.
 Examples might be a river delta or the branching (debranching?) of blood
 vessels or lungs.  "Plexus" or "knot" don't work because they could
 ambiguously refer to something like a tapestry or ... well, a knot, where
 each thread remains separate, but winds around other threads.  Something
 close to "canalization" seems appropriate. But I don't want to imply the
 generation (or dissolution) of the thing.  E.g. [arter|ang]iogenesis are
 not the type of words I'm looking for.

 There's got to be a good word for such, perhaps from graph theory or
 "network theory".  Any help will be rewarded by an IOU for a pint of beer.
 8^)

 --
 ☣ uǝlƃ

 
 FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
 Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
 to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
 FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
 
 FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
 Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
 to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
 FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

>>> 
>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>>>
>> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

[Stephen Guerin]

Also internal vertex/node or branch vertex/node

On Sat, Aug 18, 2018, 12:29 PM Stephen Guerin 
wrote:

> Conflux is the the place where two rivers join. More generally in a
> directed acyclic graph I would say junction node or use the negative
> non-leaf nodes
>
> On Sat, Aug 18, 2018, 12:09 PM Roger Critchlow  wrote:
>
>> I was thinking dendrite -- which refers to branching structures in
>> crystals as well as neurons -- this dawn, the proper portmanteau would then
>> be dendrectic or dendrexus.
>>
>> -- rec --
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 3:06 AM Jochen Fromm  wrote:
>>
>>> They say Germans have a word for everything because we can chain words
>>> together like pearls on a string. In German I would say
>>> "Netzwerkverzweigung" (network-branching/bifurcation) or
>>> "Netzwerkverdichtung" (network-consolidation/concentration). In one case
>>> the density decreases, in the other case it decreases. Something like that,
>>> but it is not a perfect fit.
>>>
>>> - Jochen
>>>
>>>
>>>  Original message 
>>> From: uǝlƃ ☣ 
>>> Date: 8/17/18 19:47 (GMT+01:00)
>>> To: FriAM 
>>> Subject: [FRIAM] looking for a word
>>>
>>> I need a word (or short phrase) to refer to the portion of a network
>>> where the edges converge or diverge (more than other parts of the network.
>>> Examples might be a river delta or the branching (debranching?) of blood
>>> vessels or lungs.  "Plexus" or "knot" don't work because they could
>>> ambiguously refer to something like a tapestry or ... well, a knot, where
>>> each thread remains separate, but winds around other threads.  Something
>>> close to "canalization" seems appropriate. But I don't want to imply the
>>> generation (or dissolution) of the thing.  E.g. [arter|ang]iogenesis are
>>> not the type of words I'm looking for.
>>>
>>> There's got to be a good word for such, perhaps from graph theory or
>>> "network theory".  Any help will be rewarded by an IOU for a pint of beer.
>>> 8^)
>>>
>>> --
>>> ☣ uǝlƃ
>>>
>>> 
>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>>> 
>>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>>>
>> 
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>>
>

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

[Stephen Guerin]

Conflux is the the place where two rivers join. More generally in a
directed acyclic graph I would say junction node or use the negative
non-leaf nodes

On Sat, Aug 18, 2018, 12:09 PM Roger Critchlow  wrote:

> I was thinking dendrite -- which refers to branching structures in
> crystals as well as neurons -- this dawn, the proper portmanteau would then
> be dendrectic or dendrexus.
>
> -- rec --
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 3:06 AM Jochen Fromm  wrote:
>
>> They say Germans have a word for everything because we can chain words
>> together like pearls on a string. In German I would say
>> "Netzwerkverzweigung" (network-branching/bifurcation) or
>> "Netzwerkverdichtung" (network-consolidation/concentration). In one case
>> the density decreases, in the other case it decreases. Something like that,
>> but it is not a perfect fit.
>>
>> - Jochen
>>
>>
>>  Original message 
>> From: uǝlƃ ☣ 
>> Date: 8/17/18 19:47 (GMT+01:00)
>> To: FriAM 
>> Subject: [FRIAM] looking for a word
>>
>> I need a word (or short phrase) to refer to the portion of a network
>> where the edges converge or diverge (more than other parts of the network.
>> Examples might be a river delta or the branching (debranching?) of blood
>> vessels or lungs.  "Plexus" or "knot" don't work because they could
>> ambiguously refer to something like a tapestry or ... well, a knot, where
>> each thread remains separate, but winds around other threads.  Something
>> close to "canalization" seems appropriate. But I don't want to imply the
>> generation (or dissolution) of the thing.  E.g. [arter|ang]iogenesis are
>> not the type of words I'm looking for.
>>
>> There's got to be a good word for such, perhaps from graph theory or
>> "network theory".  Any help will be rewarded by an IOU for a pint of beer.
>> 8^)
>>
>> --
>> ☣ uǝlƃ
>>
>> 
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>> 
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>

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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

[Roger Critchlow]

I was thinking dendrite -- which refers to branching structures in crystals
as well as neurons -- this dawn, the proper portmanteau would then be
dendrectic or dendrexus.

-- rec --


On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 3:06 AM Jochen Fromm  wrote:

> They say Germans have a word for everything because we can chain words
> together like pearls on a string. In German I would say
> "Netzwerkverzweigung" (network-branching/bifurcation) or
> "Netzwerkverdichtung" (network-consolidation/concentration). In one case
> the density decreases, in the other case it decreases. Something like that,
> but it is not a perfect fit.
>
> - Jochen
>
>
>  Original message 
> From: uǝlƃ ☣ 
> Date: 8/17/18 19:47 (GMT+01:00)
> To: FriAM 
> Subject: [FRIAM] looking for a word
>
> I need a word (or short phrase) to refer to the portion of a network where
> the edges converge or diverge (more than other parts of the network.
> Examples might be a river delta or the branching (debranching?) of blood
> vessels or lungs.  "Plexus" or "knot" don't work because they could
> ambiguously refer to something like a tapestry or ... well, a knot, where
> each thread remains separate, but winds around other threads.  Something
> close to "canalization" seems appropriate. But I don't want to imply the
> generation (or dissolution) of the thing.  E.g. [arter|ang]iogenesis are
> not the type of words I'm looking for.
>
> There's got to be a good word for such, perhaps from graph theory or
> "network theory".  Any help will be rewarded by an IOU for a pint of beer.
> 8^)
>
> --
> ☣ uǝlƃ
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>

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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

[Jochen Fromm]

They say Germans have a word for everything because we can chain words together 
like pearls on a string. In German I would say "Netzwerkverzweigung" 
(network-branching/bifurcation) or "Netzwerkverdichtung" 
(network-consolidation/concentration). In one case the density decreases, in 
the other case it decreases. Something like that, but it is not a perfect fit.  
- Jochen

 Original message From: uǝlƃ ☣  Date: 
8/17/18  19:47  (GMT+01:00) To: FriAM  Subject: [FRIAM] 
looking for a word 
I need a word (or short phrase) to refer to the portion of a network where the 
edges converge or diverge (more than other parts of the network.  Examples 
might be a river delta or the branching (debranching?) of blood vessels or 
lungs.  "Plexus" or "knot" don't work because they could ambiguously refer to 
something like a tapestry or ... well, a knot, where each thread remains 
separate, but winds around other threads.  Something close to "canalization" 
seems appropriate. But I don't want to imply the generation (or dissolution) of 
the thing.  E.g. [arter|ang]iogenesis are not the type of words I'm looking for.

There's got to be a good word for such, perhaps from graph theory or "network 
theory".  Any help will be rewarded by an IOU for a pint of beer. 8^)

-- 
☣ uǝlƃ


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

[Carl Tollander]

There's also a book, "Kinematics of Mixing", which was more exciting than
it sounds, but it seems to have escaped my bookshelf so I don't have an
author handy.


On Fri, Aug 17, 2018 at 8:00 PM, Carl Tollander  wrote:

> If you are in search of a river analogy word, you might look at "Rivers:
> Form and Process in Alluvial Channels" by Keith Richards.  Chock full of
> terminology and field methods.
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 17, 2018 at 11:47 AM, uǝlƃ ☣  wrote:
>
>>
>> I need a word (or short phrase) to refer to the portion of a network
>> where the edges converge or diverge (more than other parts of the network.
>> Examples might be a river delta or the branching (debranching?) of blood
>> vessels or lungs.  "Plexus" or "knot" don't work because they could
>> ambiguously refer to something like a tapestry or ... well, a knot, where
>> each thread remains separate, but winds around other threads.  Something
>> close to "canalization" seems appropriate. But I don't want to imply the
>> generation (or dissolution) of the thing.  E.g. [arter|ang]iogenesis are
>> not the type of words I'm looking for.
>>
>> There's got to be a good word for such, perhaps from graph theory or
>> "network theory".  Any help will be rewarded by an IOU for a pint of beer.
>> 8^)
>>
>> --
>> ☣ uǝlƃ
>>
>> 
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>>
>
>

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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

[Marcus Daniels]

Jessica Delacourt is not electable, but Ellen 
Ripley, well, she speaks to 
people.☺



On 8/17/18, 5:42 PM, "Friam on behalf of uǝlƃ ☣"  wrote:



That article paints a fantastic contrast between "speaking to" in an 
ungrounded state vs. "speaking to" in a grounded state.  When speaking to a 
collection of idealists, it's relatively trivial to sidetrack them into some 
region where their evocative triggers are "dog whistles".  But when speaking to 
a collection of skeptics, it's fairly difficult push them into an ungrounded 
region.



But the problem is invariant: that of "speaking to".  Trump beat Clinton, 
hands down, on the "speaking to" front.  "Sophisticated" people, who are used 
to and comfortable with parsing the details of some complicated plan or 
infrastructure, tended to go with Clinton, whereas those of us who would prefer 
our representatives to speak in "poetry", allowing us to fill in the [whatever] 
details, went with Trump.



A fundamental problem these days is "political stalking" and "viral 
memeing".  It's difficult to balance one's presentation to both the nerds and 
the consumers of poetry.  Obama does it fairly well.  Clinton did not.



On 08/17/2018 04:18 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:

> Perhaps 
Texas
 is key to putting a stop to all this?

>

>

>

> On 8/17/18, 4:52 PM, "Friam on behalf of Barry MacKichan" 
 wrote:

>

>

>

> Clusterf**k ?

>

>

>

> Oops, sorry, I was thinking of Trump. Also it’s after 5 on a Friday

>

> here on the east coast.



--

☣ uǝlƃ





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Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

[Frank Wimberly]

I think of the preferers of poetry as the preferers of simplicity.

---
Frank Wimberly

My memoir:
https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly

My scientific publications:
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2

Phone (505) 670-9918

On Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 5:41 PM uǝlƃ ☣  wrote:

> That article paints a fantastic contrast between "speaking to" in an
> ungrounded state vs. "speaking to" in a grounded state.  When speaking to a
> collection of idealists, it's relatively trivial to sidetrack them into
> some region where their evocative triggers are "dog whistles".  But when
> speaking to a collection of skeptics, it's fairly difficult push them into
> an ungrounded region.
>
> But the problem is invariant: that of "speaking to".  Trump beat Clinton,
> hands down, on the "speaking to" front.  "Sophisticated" people, who are
> used to and comfortable with parsing the details of some complicated plan
> or infrastructure, tended to go with Clinton, whereas those of us who would
> prefer our representatives to speak in "poetry", allowing us to fill in the
> [whatever] details, went with Trump.
>
> A fundamental problem these days is "political stalking" and "viral
> memeing".  It's difficult to balance one's presentation to both the nerds
> and the consumers of poetry.  Obama does it fairly well.  Clinton did not.
>
> On 08/17/2018 04:18 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> > Perhaps Texas<
> https://www.thenation.com/article/when-will-the-lone-start-state-turn-blue/>
> is key to putting a stop to all this?
> >
> >
> >
> > On 8/17/18, 4:52 PM, "Friam on behalf of Barry MacKichan" <
> friam-boun...@redfish.com on behalf of barry.mackic...@mackichan.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Clusterf**k ?
> >
> >
> >
> > Oops, sorry, I was thinking of Trump. Also it’s after 5 on a Friday
> >
> > here on the east coast.
>
> --
> ☣ uǝlƃ
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>

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Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

[uǝlƃ ☣]

That article paints a fantastic contrast between "speaking to" in an ungrounded 
state vs. "speaking to" in a grounded state.  When speaking to a collection of 
idealists, it's relatively trivial to sidetrack them into some region where 
their evocative triggers are "dog whistles".  But when speaking to a collection 
of skeptics, it's fairly difficult push them into an ungrounded region.

But the problem is invariant: that of "speaking to".  Trump beat Clinton, hands 
down, on the "speaking to" front.  "Sophisticated" people, who are used to and 
comfortable with parsing the details of some complicated plan or 
infrastructure, tended to go with Clinton, whereas those of us who would prefer 
our representatives to speak in "poetry", allowing us to fill in the [whatever] 
details, went with Trump.

A fundamental problem these days is "political stalking" and "viral memeing".  
It's difficult to balance one's presentation to both the nerds and the 
consumers of poetry.  Obama does it fairly well.  Clinton did not.

On 08/17/2018 04:18 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> Perhaps 
> Texas
>  is key to putting a stop to all this?
> 
> 
> 
> On 8/17/18, 4:52 PM, "Friam on behalf of Barry MacKichan" 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Clusterf**k ?
> 
> 
> 
> Oops, sorry, I was thinking of Trump. Also it’s after 5 on a Friday
> 
> here on the east coast.

-- 
☣ uǝlƃ


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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

[Marcus Daniels]

Perhaps 
Texas
 is key to putting a stop to all this?



On 8/17/18, 4:52 PM, "Friam on behalf of Barry MacKichan" 
 wrote:



Clusterf**k ?



Oops, sorry, I was thinking of Trump. Also it’s after 5 on a Friday

here on the east coast.



--Barry





On 17 Aug 2018, at 18:42, uǝlƃ ☣ wrote:



> Bah!  If you are, as I am, a post-modernist, explanatory power reduces

> to evocative power.  Whatever I can do to evoke a predictable response

> in the audience is adequate.  Although I count myself a fan of

> Wittgenstein's STFU approach, I can't deny the power of those who just

> never STFU. (Witness the interminable chants at the various pro-this,

> anti-that rallies.)  It's a kind of hypnosis ... a droning on and on

> until you win over your audience with tone and rhythm more so than

> content.

>

> But w.r.t. Zweigneiderlassung, I'm currently enthralled with McShea

> and Brandon's concept of the ZFEL and "pure complexity", which (in my

> ignorance) disallows reliance on "branching" as a core concept.

> Simple counting seems more appropriate, especially since that makes

> sense to most people.  I admit that McShea and Brandon seem to be

> relying fundamentally on some implicit spatial sense.  But perhaps

> that's OK in this context?

>

> On 08/17/2018 03:21 PM, Robert Holmes wrote:

>> I always call it the Zweigneiderlassung.

>>

>> On Fri, Aug 17, 2018 at 4:14 PM Frank Wimberly 

>> wrote:

>>

>>> The explanatory power of all words is limited.  See Wittgenstein.

>>> Wovon

>>> Mann nicht sprechen kann daruber muss Mann schweigen.

>

> --

> ☣ uǝlƃ

>

> 

> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv

> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College

> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove





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Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

[uǝlƃ ☣]

Yes, "face validation" plays a role.  But quantitative "data validation" plays 
a stronger one, as I implied with my reference to "pure complexity".  If I 
could bridge the gap between counting ambiguous things like "sinusoids" and our 
very quantitative analog, then it would be relatively easy to not only Turing 
test the analog's output against people who look at tissue slices, but it would 
be easier to automate such validation (including with ML and ANN).

But it all starts with being able to *describe* what these fractal-like 
structures look like.  Not having a word or catchy phrase seriously inhibits 
our ability to communicate.  If you're there in meat space, you can dangle your 
fingers on the top and wiggle the fingers of your other hand on bottom to 
indicate the "interesting region" where your fingers are wiggling.  But when 
limited to a text interface, it's a difficult concept to grok.

On 08/17/2018 03:57 PM, Robert Wall wrote:
> Glen,
> 
> I believe what you are trying to achieve is what we used to call "face
> validity."  To achieve accreditation among the domain experts, the model
> had to appeal on an empathic level or it was toast. This was not easy to do
> at the program level (DAG?) but easier to do a higher level of abstracted
> modeling (organic level).  Beyond that, the model had to produce outcomes
> (verification) that the model was not, say just overfitting the data.
> 
> So it seems you are saying that you are trying to convey an organic feel
> from a mechanistic process. With Herny Markam's Blue Brain project, for
> example, I think they were doing this same thing by starting with a digital
> reconstruction of recognizable parts of a mouse brain's neocortex.
> Analogously, I think, you are starting with a digital reconstruction of a
> rat's liver lobules.
> 
> So the wordsmith challenge is to describe how the mechanistic structure
> overlay one-for-one on to the organic structure.  I would think that this
> relationship must be functional.  Not sure.
> 
> This understanding doesn't "answer the mail" for you but it might help with
> the wordsmithing.

-- 
☣ uǝlƃ


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Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

[uǝlƃ ☣]

"Peneplain" is a very cool word that you just taught me.  But I think that's 
too well-mixed.  In terms of the liver, the (3D) peneplain might be simply the 
central vein that flows out after all the filtering is done.  I want to 
indicate the region "just prior" to the peneplain ... or just after the the 
portal vein, where blood flows in.

The reason for avoiding concepts of growth/evolution is because we (*I*, my 
colleagues might not approve of my asking a mailing list of random nerds) need 
to contrast one "fluvial network" with another.  And, especially in the case of 
disease, we'll need to indicate a "healthy state", which I suspect involves a 
nice space-filling structure, versus an unhealthy state, which shows too much 
flow, not enough filtering.

The idea is that the different morphology between a healthy and unhealthy state 
can hint at various treatments.  Growth, repair, etc. will be part and parcel 
of any such treatment.  But first, it would be nice to be able to refer to the 
different "homology" exhibited by the 2 different states.  And "yes", the 
reason "persistent homology" is attractive is because the same property should 
apply when considering an acinus, as well as a lobule, as well as a whole 
liver.  To boot, it would be nice if such a property would be applicable to 
structures like the pancreas as well as the liver.


On 08/17/2018 03:48 PM, Steven A Smith wrote:
> Your description makes me think of (as you may intend) of the braiding
> of rivulets within a delta (or any flat section of river, alluvial fan,
> or pleneplain) if I understand the dynamics at all, sedimentation is
> deposited relatively uniformly, causing a "flat" region and the most
> minor of differences define where water will canalize... and variations
> over time of those differences (wind, rates of evaporation, etc) lead to
> *multiple* channels which appear to be independent of one another, even
> crossing.   When they "cross" I am left to wonder if they are formed or
> flow concurrently or represent an evolution over time where many may
> carry water at one time, but as flow increases, one (or another) is
> preferred for a time, reinforcing an old or cutting a new channel.  
> Braided rivers are considered distinct from Meandering rivers, but I
> wonder if that isn't just a (time)scale difference?  I have been
> casually studying the Platte ("flat") River for unrelated reasons...
> 
> This is part of the reason for asking about the function(s) of the
> system(s) you are studying.
> 
> You seem to want to avoid any implications of growth...  does that mean
> you don't expect the structure to reflect a response to some dynamic
> element or to not have "evolved" from something more simple (like from a
> very sparse or fully connected graph to the one in question)?
> 
> I am also curious (in a hair splitting way) about your (Marcus' ?) use
> of homology in this context.   Would you be referring to the patterns of
> similarity across subgraphs of the whole graph?  When you invoked
> fractal, I heard an implication of patterns of similarity at different
> scales.

-- 
☣ uǝlƃ


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Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

[Robert Wall]

Glen,

I believe what you are trying to achieve is what we used to call "face
validity."  To achieve accreditation among the domain experts, the model
had to appeal on an empathic level or it was toast. This was not easy to do
at the program level (DAG?) but easier to do a higher level of abstracted
modeling (organic level).  Beyond that, the model had to produce outcomes
(verification) that the model was not, say just overfitting the data.

So it seems you are saying that you are trying to convey an organic feel
from a mechanistic process. With Herny Markam's Blue Brain project, for
example, I think they were doing this same thing by starting with a digital
reconstruction of recognizable parts of a mouse brain's neocortex.
Analogously, I think, you are starting with a digital reconstruction of a
rat's liver lobules.

So the wordsmith challenge is to describe how the mechanistic structure
overlay one-for-one on to the organic structure.  I would think that this
relationship must be functional.  Not sure.

This understanding doesn't "answer the mail" for you but it might help with
the wordsmithing.

Robert

On Fri, Aug 17, 2018 at 4:28 PM uǝlƃ ☣  wrote:

> Interesting.  Robert's mention of "fractally-associative" was attractive
> to me and seems similar to your [dis]assortativity.  But I'm too ignorant
> (so far) to know whether that has any heuristic power.
>
> I now owe ~4 pints, but only have any confidence I'll have to pay up on 1.
> 8^)
>
> Here's the context.  In our *analogy* from our computational model of the
> liver to a referent liver, we use a directed graph (without degenerate
> cycles) to simulate the lobules in various livers (perfused rat, whole
> animal mouse, etc.).  In that graph, some of the "sinusoidal segments" feed
> into our "central vein".  But they do so in a computationally coherent way
> that is physically incoherent. It's a DAG.  The edges don't actually
> *conduct* the molecules.  It's a magical attachment.  One of my more
> biologically inclined colleagues was trying to analogize to the referent
> liver, which is much more ... "organic" ... whereas our analog is much more
> ... "schematic", if that makes any sense.  My colleague is attempting to
> point out the difference between an actual liver's complex "bed" of flowing
> integration versus our analog's engineered ... "managed" ... "magical" ...
> transference.
>
> Part of my motivation for posting this question, here, is that I'm
> pitching for us to implement a more "space-filling" lobule structure than
> that exhibited by our current DAG.  Although my colleague thinks I'm
> arguing against him, I'm actually trying to bolster his argument that, in
> order to build a *strong* structural analogy (and thereby a strong
> behavioral analogy), we might need a computational structure that is more
> analogous to the referent lobule.
>
> And part of my *rhetoric* requires a relatively catchy word/phrase to use
> to indicate our our current DAG is easily face-falsifiable.
>
>
> On 08/17/2018 01:37 PM, Steven A Smith wrote:
> > Glen -
> >
> > I haven't converged on precisely what you are looking for here...   but
> > am fascinated with the question.
> >
> > My best guess at the general area you are contemplating would involve
> > the graph theoretic idea of a "cluster" and/or imply something about
> > (dis)assortativity.I think maybe what you are talking about are
> > (collections of) nodes with high local clustering coefficients and I
> > *think* with high assortativity.  If I understand your question, Marcus'
> > suggestions, and the finer points of these graph measures, a typical
> > "hub" in the normal sense would have high disassortativity, or in
> > laymans terms, nodes with high degree would connect more to nodes with
> > low degree, etc.  while what you are looking for might be nodes with
> > (relatively) high degree *and*  high assortativity, or nodes that
> > connect to nodes of similar degree...
> >
> > I know this is far from providing "a word"...  but the resulting phrase
> > might be "an assortative cluster" or "a cluster with high assortativity"?
> >
> > Can you say anything more about the underlying system being modeled?
> > Are you trying to fit this to the known/observed structure or it's
> > function, or one implying the other?
>
>
> --
> ☣ uǝlƃ
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>

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Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

[Barry MacKichan]

Clusterf**k ?

Oops, sorry, I was thinking of Trump. Also it’s after 5 on a Friday 
here on the east coast.


--Barry


On 17 Aug 2018, at 18:42, uǝlƃ ☣ wrote:

Bah!  If you are, as I am, a post-modernist, explanatory power reduces 
to evocative power.  Whatever I can do to evoke a predictable response 
in the audience is adequate.  Although I count myself a fan of 
Wittgenstein's STFU approach, I can't deny the power of those who just 
never STFU. (Witness the interminable chants at the various pro-this, 
anti-that rallies.)  It's a kind of hypnosis ... a droning on and on 
until you win over your audience with tone and rhythm more so than 
content.


But w.r.t. Zweigneiderlassung, I'm currently enthralled with McShea 
and Brandon's concept of the ZFEL and "pure complexity", which (in my 
ignorance) disallows reliance on "branching" as a core concept.  
Simple counting seems more appropriate, especially since that makes 
sense to most people.  I admit that McShea and Brandon seem to be 
relying fundamentally on some implicit spatial sense.  But perhaps 
that's OK in this context?


On 08/17/2018 03:21 PM, Robert Holmes wrote:

I always call it the Zweigneiderlassung.

On Fri, Aug 17, 2018 at 4:14 PM Frank Wimberly  
wrote:


The explanatory power of all words is limited.  See Wittgenstein.  
Wovon

Mann nicht sprechen kann daruber muss Mann schweigen.


--
☣ uǝlƃ


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

[Steven A Smith]

Glen -

hmmm...  "Plexus" as a portmanteau of Plectic and Nexus then?

I sense in your groping/grasping/grappling for this word/phrase that you
are seeking *both* explicit and implicit connectivity?   "Weaving"
suggests to me that you are thinking implicit connections as much as
explicit your use of "Confluent Flow" suggests function/dynamism rather
than structure.

Your description makes me think of (as you may intend) of the braiding
of rivulets within a delta (or any flat section of river, alluvial fan,
or pleneplain) if I understand the dynamics at all, sedimentation is
deposited relatively uniformly, causing a "flat" region and the most
minor of differences define where water will canalize... and variations
over time of those differences (wind, rates of evaporation, etc) lead to
*multiple* channels which appear to be independent of one another, even
crossing.   When they "cross" I am left to wonder if they are formed or
flow concurrently or represent an evolution over time where many may
carry water at one time, but as flow increases, one (or another) is
preferred for a time, reinforcing an old or cutting a new channel.  
Braided rivers are considered distinct from Meandering rivers, but I
wonder if that isn't just a (time)scale difference?  I have been
casually studying the Platte ("flat") River for unrelated reasons...

This is part of the reason for asking about the function(s) of the
system(s) you are studying.

You seem to want to avoid any implications of growth...  does that mean
you don't expect the structure to reflect a response to some dynamic
element or to not have "evolved" from something more simple (like from a
very sparse or fully connected graph to the one in question)?

I am also curious (in a hair splitting way) about your (Marcus' ?) use
of homology in this context.   Would you be referring to the patterns of
similarity across subgraphs of the whole graph?  When you invoked
fractal, I heard an implication of patterns of similarity at different
scales.

- Steve

> I *really* want to use some form of "plectic" like plexus or complex.  But 
> its explanatory power is limited.  As I'll soon respond to Steve, I need 
> something that evokes the concept of merging/confluent flow but without the 
> overtones of generation (like Robert's growth/dynamism).  Even the 
> "filtration" concept derived from Marcus' suggestion of persistent homology, 
> implies a temporal component.
>
>
> On 08/17/2018 01:03 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
>> Complex junction?




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Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

[uǝlƃ ☣]

Bah!  If you are, as I am, a post-modernist, explanatory power reduces to 
evocative power.  Whatever I can do to evoke a predictable response in the 
audience is adequate.  Although I count myself a fan of Wittgenstein's STFU 
approach, I can't deny the power of those who just never STFU. (Witness the 
interminable chants at the various pro-this, anti-that rallies.)  It's a kind 
of hypnosis ... a droning on and on until you win over your audience with tone 
and rhythm more so than content.

But w.r.t. Zweigneiderlassung, I'm currently enthralled with McShea and 
Brandon's concept of the ZFEL and "pure complexity", which (in my ignorance) 
disallows reliance on "branching" as a core concept.  Simple counting seems 
more appropriate, especially since that makes sense to most people.  I admit 
that McShea and Brandon seem to be relying fundamentally on some implicit 
spatial sense.  But perhaps that's OK in this context?

On 08/17/2018 03:21 PM, Robert Holmes wrote:
> I always call it the Zweigneiderlassung.
> 
> On Fri, Aug 17, 2018 at 4:14 PM Frank Wimberly  wrote:
> 
>> The explanatory power of all words is limited.  See Wittgenstein.  Wovon
>> Mann nicht sprechen kann daruber muss Mann schweigen.

-- 
☣ uǝlƃ


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

[uǝlƃ ☣]

Interesting.  Robert's mention of "fractally-associative" was attractive to me 
and seems similar to your [dis]assortativity.  But I'm too ignorant (so far) to 
know whether that has any heuristic power.

I now owe ~4 pints, but only have any confidence I'll have to pay up on 1. 8^)

Here's the context.  In our *analogy* from our computational model of the liver 
to a referent liver, we use a directed graph (without degenerate cycles) to 
simulate the lobules in various livers (perfused rat, whole animal mouse, 
etc.).  In that graph, some of the "sinusoidal segments" feed into our "central 
vein".  But they do so in a computationally coherent way that is physically 
incoherent. It's a DAG.  The edges don't actually *conduct* the molecules.  
It's a magical attachment.  One of my more biologically inclined colleagues was 
trying to analogize to the referent liver, which is much more ... "organic" ... 
whereas our analog is much more ... "schematic", if that makes any sense.  My 
colleague is attempting to point out the difference between an actual liver's 
complex "bed" of flowing integration versus our analog's engineered ... 
"managed" ... "magical" ... transference.

Part of my motivation for posting this question, here, is that I'm pitching for 
us to implement a more "space-filling" lobule structure than that exhibited by 
our current DAG.  Although my colleague thinks I'm arguing against him, I'm 
actually trying to bolster his argument that, in order to build a *strong* 
structural analogy (and thereby a strong behavioral analogy), we might need a 
computational structure that is more analogous to the referent lobule.

And part of my *rhetoric* requires a relatively catchy word/phrase to use to 
indicate our our current DAG is easily face-falsifiable.


On 08/17/2018 01:37 PM, Steven A Smith wrote:
> Glen -
> 
> I haven't converged on precisely what you are looking for here...   but
> am fascinated with the question.
> 
> My best guess at the general area you are contemplating would involve
> the graph theoretic idea of a "cluster" and/or imply something about
> (dis)assortativity.    I think maybe what you are talking about are
> (collections of) nodes with high local clustering coefficients and I
> *think* with high assortativity.  If I understand your question, Marcus'
> suggestions, and the finer points of these graph measures, a typical
> "hub" in the normal sense would have high disassortativity, or in
> laymans terms, nodes with high degree would connect more to nodes with
> low degree, etc.  while what you are looking for might be nodes with
> (relatively) high degree *and*  high assortativity, or nodes that
> connect to nodes of similar degree...
> 
> I know this is far from providing "a word"...  but the resulting phrase
> might be "an assortative cluster" or "a cluster with high assortativity"?
> 
> Can you say anything more about the underlying system being modeled? 
> Are you trying to fit this to the known/observed structure or it's
> function, or one implying the other?


-- 
☣ uǝlƃ


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
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Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

[Robert Holmes]

I always call it the Zweigneiderlassung.

On Fri, Aug 17, 2018 at 4:14 PM Frank Wimberly  wrote:

> The explanatory power of all words is limited.  See Wittgenstein.  Wovon
> Mann nicht sprechen kann daruber muss Mann schweigen.
>
> ---
> Frank Wimberly
>
> My memoir:
> https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly
>
> My scientific publications:
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2
>
> Phone (505) 670-9918
>
> On Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 4:11 PM uǝlƃ ☣  wrote:
>
>> I *really* want to use some form of "plectic" like plexus or complex.
>> But its explanatory power is limited.  As I'll soon respond to Steve, I
>> need something that evokes the concept of merging/confluent flow but
>> without the overtones of generation (like Robert's growth/dynamism).  Even
>> the "filtration" concept derived from Marcus' suggestion of persistent
>> homology, implies a temporal component.
>>
>>
>> On 08/17/2018 01:03 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
>> > Complex junction?
>>
>> --
>> ☣ uǝlƃ
>>
>> 
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>

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Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

[Frank Wimberly]

The explanatory power of all words is limited.  See Wittgenstein.  Wovon
Mann nicht sprechen kann daruber muss Mann schweigen.

---
Frank Wimberly

My memoir:
https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly

My scientific publications:
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2

Phone (505) 670-9918

On Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 4:11 PM uǝlƃ ☣  wrote:

> I *really* want to use some form of "plectic" like plexus or complex.  But
> its explanatory power is limited.  As I'll soon respond to Steve, I need
> something that evokes the concept of merging/confluent flow but without the
> overtones of generation (like Robert's growth/dynamism).  Even the
> "filtration" concept derived from Marcus' suggestion of persistent
> homology, implies a temporal component.
>
>
> On 08/17/2018 01:03 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
> > Complex junction?
>
> --
> ☣ uǝlƃ
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

[uǝlƃ ☣]

I *really* want to use some form of "plectic" like plexus or complex.  But its 
explanatory power is limited.  As I'll soon respond to Steve, I need something 
that evokes the concept of merging/confluent flow but without the overtones of 
generation (like Robert's growth/dynamism).  Even the "filtration" concept 
derived from Marcus' suggestion of persistent homology, implies a temporal 
component.


On 08/17/2018 01:03 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
> Complex junction?

-- 
☣ uǝlƃ


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

[Marcus Daniels]

I immediately think of Geoffrey West’s work.  (Although that doesn’t 
immediately provide a catchy phrase.)

http://science.sciencemag.org/content/276/5309/122

From: Friam  on behalf of Robert Wall 

Reply-To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Date: Friday, August 17, 2018 at 1:32 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group 
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

Here's a paper <https://arxiv.org/pdf/1311.3087.pdf>  (2010) that describes a 
hub attraction dynamical growth model (HADGM) that exhibits fractal and 
probabilistic behavior for forming nodes in a complex network.

But you are looking for a descriptive word or phrase. Perhaps, "dynamic growth 
models with fractally-associative (or nonassociative) hubs."  It seems to have 
something to do with the behavior of forming nodes (connections); so that seems 
to be the focus for your description. Not sure, but would agree that fractile 
behavior seems at the root of what you are trying to describe: some "hubbing" 
and "hubbing-resistance," so to speak.

I like the amber Belgian beers ... 


On Fri, Aug 17, 2018 at 12:52 PM uǝlƃ ☣ 
mailto:geprope...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Excellent!  I suppose the things I'm talking about would exhibit something like 
a persistent homology.  Of course, I'm looking for a word to describe a subset 
of those (the particular way something like a capillary bed branches out from 
the large blood vessels).  So, it would have to be a type of persistent 
homology.

But the concept of "a filtration" is also evocative, both in its math and 
biological/physical meanings.  Much of what the tissue samplers are doing is 
counting/indexing objects and branches in an attempt to identify weirdness.

On 08/17/2018 11:28 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> Persistent homology?

--
☣ uǝlƃ


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

[Steven A Smith]

Glen -

I haven't converged on precisely what you are looking for here...   but
am fascinated with the question.

My best guess at the general area you are contemplating would involve
the graph theoretic idea of a "cluster" and/or imply something about
(dis)assortativity.    I think maybe what you are talking about are
(collections of) nodes with high local clustering coefficients and I
*think* with high assortativity.  If I understand your question, Marcus'
suggestions, and the finer points of these graph measures, a typical
"hub" in the normal sense would have high disassortativity, or in
laymans terms, nodes with high degree would connect more to nodes with
low degree, etc.  while what you are looking for might be nodes with
(relatively) high degree *and*  high assortativity, or nodes that
connect to nodes of similar degree...

I know this is far from providing "a word"...  but the resulting phrase
might be "an assortative cluster" or "a cluster with high assortativity"?

Can you say anything more about the underlying system being modeled? 
Are you trying to fit this to the known/observed structure or it's
function, or one implying the other?

- Steve


On 8/17/18 12:52 PM, uǝlƃ ☣ wrote:
> Excellent!  I suppose the things I'm talking about would exhibit something 
> like a persistent homology.  Of course, I'm looking for a word to describe a 
> subset of those (the particular way something like a capillary bed branches 
> out from the large blood vessels).  So, it would have to be a type of 
> persistent homology.
>
> But the concept of "a filtration" is also evocative, both in its math and 
> biological/physical meanings.  Much of what the tissue samplers are doing is 
> counting/indexing objects and branches in an attempt to identify weirdness.
>
> On 08/17/2018 11:28 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
>> Persistent homology?




FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

[Frank Wimberly]

Complex junction?

---
Frank Wimberly

My memoir:
https://www.amazon.com/author/frankwimberly

My scientific publications:
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Frank_Wimberly2

Phone (505) 670-9918

On Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 1:31 PM Robert Wall  wrote:

> Here's a paper  (2010) that
> describes a hub attraction dynamical growth model (HADGM) that exhibits
> fractal and probabilistic behavior for forming nodes in a complex network.
>
> But you are looking for a descriptive word or phrase. Perhaps, "dynamic
> growth models with fractally-associative (or nonassociative) hubs."  It
> seems to have something to do with the behavior of forming nodes
> (connections); so that seems to be the focus for your description. Not
> sure, but would agree that fractile behavior seems at the root of what you
> are trying to describe: some "hubbing" and "hubbing-resistance," so to
> speak.
>
> I like the amber Belgian beers ... 
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 17, 2018 at 12:52 PM uǝlƃ ☣  wrote:
>
>> Excellent!  I suppose the things I'm talking about would exhibit
>> something like a persistent homology.  Of course, I'm looking for a word to
>> describe a subset of those (the particular way something like a capillary
>> bed branches out from the large blood vessels).  So, it would have to be a
>> type of persistent homology.
>>
>> But the concept of "a filtration" is also evocative, both in its math and
>> biological/physical meanings.  Much of what the tissue samplers are doing
>> is counting/indexing objects and branches in an attempt to identify
>> weirdness.
>>
>> On 08/17/2018 11:28 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
>> > Persistent homology?
>>
>> --
>> ☣ uǝlƃ
>>
>> 
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

[Robert Wall]

Here's a paper  (2010) that describes
a hub attraction dynamical growth model (HADGM) that exhibits fractal and
probabilistic behavior for forming nodes in a complex network.

But you are looking for a descriptive word or phrase. Perhaps, "dynamic
growth models with fractally-associative (or nonassociative) hubs."  It
seems to have something to do with the behavior of forming nodes
(connections); so that seems to be the focus for your description. Not
sure, but would agree that fractile behavior seems at the root of what you
are trying to describe: some "hubbing" and "hubbing-resistance," so to
speak.

I like the amber Belgian beers ... 


On Fri, Aug 17, 2018 at 12:52 PM uǝlƃ ☣  wrote:

> Excellent!  I suppose the things I'm talking about would exhibit something
> like a persistent homology.  Of course, I'm looking for a word to describe
> a subset of those (the particular way something like a capillary bed
> branches out from the large blood vessels).  So, it would have to be a type
> of persistent homology.
>
> But the concept of "a filtration" is also evocative, both in its math and
> biological/physical meanings.  Much of what the tissue samplers are doing
> is counting/indexing objects and branches in an attempt to identify
> weirdness.
>
> On 08/17/2018 11:28 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> > Persistent homology?
>
> --
> ☣ uǝlƃ
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove
>

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

[uǝlƃ ☣]

Excellent!  I suppose the things I'm talking about would exhibit something like 
a persistent homology.  Of course, I'm looking for a word to describe a subset 
of those (the particular way something like a capillary bed branches out from 
the large blood vessels).  So, it would have to be a type of persistent 
homology.

But the concept of "a filtration" is also evocative, both in its math and 
biological/physical meanings.  Much of what the tissue samplers are doing is 
counting/indexing objects and branches in an attempt to identify weirdness.

On 08/17/2018 11:28 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> Persistent homology?

-- 
☣ uǝlƃ


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

[Marcus Daniels]

Persistent homology?

On 8/17/18, 12:09 PM, "Friam on behalf of uǝlƃ ☣"  wrote:

Maybe.  But I tend to think of a hub as a kind of homogenous mixing point.  
E.g. a bicycle hub has all the spokes connnecting to the hub at equal 
distances.  For water flow, something like a sewage treatment plant might have 
a reservoir into which pipes or canals feed, where the pipes/canals are all 
roughly the same length and enter the reservoir at similar distances and 
(possible) flow rates (pipe sizes, etc.).

A river confluence, for example, might have 2 streams merge at one point, 
then a 3rd stream merge in later,  a stream merging with a big stream, etc.  
So, there's some implication that the merging/branching is heterogeneous.

Abstracting the detail of such a thing would definitely make it some sort 
of "mixing hub".  But it wouldn't be "well-mixed" if you zoomed in.  All 
concrete hubs (e.g. Unilever in a supply chain model or whatnot) *do* have some 
sort of internal structure you can see when you zoom in, though.  So, maybe a 
qualified phrase like "fractal hub" would work?


On 08/17/2018 10:53 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> A hub?
> 
> On 8/17/18, 11:47 AM, "Friam on behalf of uǝlƃ ☣" 
 wrote:
> 
> 
> I need a word (or short phrase) to refer to the portion of a network 
where the edges converge or diverge (more than other parts of the network.  
Examples might be a river delta or the branching (debranching?) of blood 
vessels or lungs.  "Plexus" or "knot" don't work because they could ambiguously 
refer to something like a tapestry or ... well, a knot, where each thread 
remains separate, but winds around other threads.  Something close to 
"canalization" seems appropriate. But I don't want to imply the generation (or 
dissolution) of the thing.  E.g. [arter|ang]iogenesis are not the type of words 
I'm looking for.
> 
> There's got to be a good word for such, perhaps from graph theory or 
"network theory".  Any help will be rewarded by an IOU for a pint of beer. 8^)


-- 
☣ uǝlƃ


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FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
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FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ by Dr. Strangelove

Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

[uǝlƃ ☣]

Maybe.  But I tend to think of a hub as a kind of homogenous mixing point.  
E.g. a bicycle hub has all the spokes connnecting to the hub at equal 
distances.  For water flow, something like a sewage treatment plant might have 
a reservoir into which pipes or canals feed, where the pipes/canals are all 
roughly the same length and enter the reservoir at similar distances and 
(possible) flow rates (pipe sizes, etc.).

A river confluence, for example, might have 2 streams merge at one point, then 
a 3rd stream merge in later,  a stream merging with a big stream, etc.  So, 
there's some implication that the merging/branching is heterogeneous.

Abstracting the detail of such a thing would definitely make it some sort of 
"mixing hub".  But it wouldn't be "well-mixed" if you zoomed in.  All concrete 
hubs (e.g. Unilever in a supply chain model or whatnot) *do* have some sort of 
internal structure you can see when you zoom in, though.  So, maybe a qualified 
phrase like "fractal hub" would work?


On 08/17/2018 10:53 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
> A hub?
> 
> On 8/17/18, 11:47 AM, "Friam on behalf of uǝlƃ ☣"  on behalf of geprope...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> I need a word (or short phrase) to refer to the portion of a network 
> where the edges converge or diverge (more than other parts of the network.  
> Examples might be a river delta or the branching (debranching?) of blood 
> vessels or lungs.  "Plexus" or "knot" don't work because they could 
> ambiguously refer to something like a tapestry or ... well, a knot, where 
> each thread remains separate, but winds around other threads.  Something 
> close to "canalization" seems appropriate. But I don't want to imply the 
> generation (or dissolution) of the thing.  E.g. [arter|ang]iogenesis are not 
> the type of words I'm looking for.
> 
> There's got to be a good word for such, perhaps from graph theory or 
> "network theory".  Any help will be rewarded by an IOU for a pint of beer. 8^)


-- 
☣ uǝlƃ


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Re: [FRIAM] looking for a word

[Marcus Daniels]

A hub?

On 8/17/18, 11:47 AM, "Friam on behalf of uǝlƃ ☣"  wrote:


I need a word (or short phrase) to refer to the portion of a network where 
the edges converge or diverge (more than other parts of the network.  Examples 
might be a river delta or the branching (debranching?) of blood vessels or 
lungs.  "Plexus" or "knot" don't work because they could ambiguously refer to 
something like a tapestry or ... well, a knot, where each thread remains 
separate, but winds around other threads.  Something close to "canalization" 
seems appropriate. But I don't want to imply the generation (or dissolution) of 
the thing.  E.g. [arter|ang]iogenesis are not the type of words I'm looking for.

There's got to be a good word for such, perhaps from graph theory or 
"network theory".  Any help will be rewarded by an IOU for a pint of beer. 8^)

-- 
☣ uǝlƃ


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
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FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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