Re: [Full-disclosure] Chinese backdoors "hidden in router firmware"
Gee Echelon is that not OLD news like news that is over 10 years old??? I remember hearing about echelon at the very least 10-11 years ago. -- Leif Ericksen On Thu, 2008-03-06 at 20:46 +1100, Ivan . wrote: > so what? It doesn't have to make specific ascertains. The fact of the > matter is that government sponsored corporate/industrial espionage > happens all the time. > > Echelon spy network revealed > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/503224.stm > > Echelon: Government spying breeds business distrust > http://news.zdnet.co.uk/itmanagement/0,100308,2079881,00.htm > > Update: America uses Echelon to spy on Britain > http://news.zdnet.co.uk/security/0,100189,2079921,00.htm > > On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 8:21 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > COULD, this article makes no specific claims. the chinese government COULD > > have a audio recording device hidden inside your asshole at this very > > moment. > > > > On Thu, Mar 06, 2008 at 10:09:53AM +1100, Ivan . wrote: > > > http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/173883/chinese-backdoors-hidden-in-router-firmware.html > > > > > > ___ > > > > > > > > > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. > > > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html > > > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ > > > > ___ > > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. > > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html > > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ > > > > ___ > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] spammer wades into US Presidential race
Either way they are doing it to advance their own agenda. bottom line that is what their lack of action is all about. Their own agenda. -- Leif Ericksen On Mon, 2007-10-29 at 12:03 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 12:35:04 CDT, Leif Ericksen said: > > > Yes the president can send the troops to war. > > Congress is needed to declare war (the president can not do it) > > See the following: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_war_by_the_United_States > > > > After World War II, Congress voluntarily limited its use of the power to > > declare war to issuing authorizations of force. > > Right. And Congress wussed out and gave Bush basically a blank check > and hasn't gone back to change its mind. They gave him that authorization. > > > Two weeks ago, during a hearing in the House International Relations > > committee, > > > > I attempted to force the committee to follow the Constitution and > > vote to declare war with Iraq. > > > > COMMENT: If Ron Paul is the author of that Vote for me and I will end > > the war he is contradicting himself the the statement found in the link > > I have provided and just outlined. Does that mean a lie? Dishonesty? > > No, what he did, near as I can tell, was to tell Congress to actually get > *serious*, and if they wanted a *war* to *declare* a war, rather than some > mamby-pamby "authorization to use force". Congress proved not to have > the collective cojones to Do The Right Thing. ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] spammer wades into US Presidential race
Another thing that is laughable is this person Ron Paul is said to once elected stop the war in Iraq. OK just how does ONE (1) person plan do do that? I love the fact that people want to blame Mr President for the war in Iraq. But that is not my understanding of U.S. Government operations. Yes the president can send the troops to war. Congress is needed to declare war (the president can not do it) See the following: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_war_by_the_United_States After World War II, Congress voluntarily limited its use of the power to declare war to issuing authorizations of force. The War Powers Resolution of 1973 (Pub.L. 93-148) limits the power of the President to wage war without the approval of the Congress. The United States of America has formally declared war against foreign nations five separate times. Anyway it would take an act of congress to pull the troops back and they have not gotten together to make that choice. So how is one person this Ron Paul going to make it happen. Here is another piece of found information: (I am going to make areas stand out with asterisk *) Google is your friend! http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2002/tst101402.htm (It states RON PAUL) Two weeks ago, during a hearing in the House International Relations committee, I attempted to force the committee to follow the Constitution and vote to declare war with Iraq. COMMENT: If Ron Paul is the author of that Vote for me and I will end the war he is contradicting himself the the statement found in the link I have provided and just outlined. Does that mean a lie? Dishonesty? he language of Article I, section 8, is quite clear: only Congress has the authority to declare war.* COMMENT: I have not looked at the information but it is my understanding they can RECALL THE TROOPS if the president sends them in on an action. But that has not been done. *** Yet Congress in general, and the committee in particular, have done everything possible to avoid making such a declaration. Why? Because members lack the political courage to call an invasion of Iraq what it really is- a war- and vote yes or no on the wisdom of such a war. COMMENT: Lack of voting and indecisiveness is in essence is that not an approval until they get mad. Much like parent that watches there child doing something until it is really bad then they intervene but it may be to late the kid is hurt or something is broken. I am guilty of that. Letting the kids walk and jump on the couch because they are little. But by the time they are 3 it is time to stop them and it is hard... Congress would rather give up its most important authorized power to the President and the UN than risk losing an election later if the war goes badly. There is always congressional "support" for a popular war, but the politicians want room to maneuver if the public later changes its mind. So members take half steps, supporting confusingly worded "authorizations" that they can back away from easily if necessary. COMMENT: With they support unpopular wars to fit their own agenda! Is that what that is say room to maneuver? Please read the entire information after all I could be skewing this information to fit my own agenda right? Or then again maybe I am taking things out of context. Ron Paul shows that he is anti UN and mad that congress is being so "laissez-faire" with regards to the presidents actions be they good or bad. One more thing from Ron Paul in this link: When Congress issued clear declarations of war against Japan and Germany during World War II, the nation was committed and victory was achieved. When Congress shirks its duty and avoids declaring war, as with Korea, and Vietnam, the nation is less committed and victory is elusive. No lives should be lost in Iraq unless Congress expresses the clear will of the American people and votes yes or no on a declaration of war. COMMENT: Looks like Ron Paul would be for the war in Iraq as long as congress backs the presidents actions. after all the only wars that the U.S. had a real victory in are those that congress states something to the affect of "it's war!". Here is another link that may be of interest: http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2004/cr020404.htm google terms: +declare +war +us +"ron paul" site:.gov more searches with: +rfid ""ron paul" site:.gov This link shows he is against the national ID card: http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2005/cr020905.htm Talks about Mexican U.S. relations: www.foreignaffairs.house.gov/archives/109/27229.pdf Well that is enough information hopefully I do not get myself on a watch list for all this. After all maybe I will be labeled a rebel now. -- Leif Ericksen On Sun, 2007-10-28 at 12:04 -0400, Aaron Katz wrote: > Could you provide a little more information/investigation (I'm too > lazy, at this very moment,
Re: [Full-disclosure] [Dailydave] Hacking software is lame -- try medical research...
What did I do I just said I was gonna eat CORNdogs. OH well.. XXOOXX ;) -- L On Sat, 2007-09-22 at 16:34 -0400, Fabrizio wrote: > If you guys could kiss and make-up now, that would be great. > > Fabrizio > > On 9/22/07, Leif Ericksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I think I need to get some lunch and eat a bunch of > CORNdogs. ;) > > > - > L > > On Sun, 2007-09-23 at 01:40 +0530, Jimby Sharp wrote: > > > From: Kristian Erik Hermansen > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] [Dailydave] Hacking > software is lame -- try medical research... > > > > > You are an idiot. > > > > :-O > > > > > What have you done for the security community > > > lately... yeah now take a seat. > > > > Everyone is discussing their favorite topic. So let me > discuss mine too. > > > > > My post had some security content and > > > > Ah ok! I'll rephrase my statements. > > > > I had a wonderful breakfast, two eggs and sandwich. :-) XSS > is not > > just about input validation but about output validation too. > I am > > flying to New York today. Can anyone tell me any good mall > or store > > where I can buy a good sleeping bag? > > > > Watering the plants was fun and so was the GMail point and > click demo. > > But wasn't that lame in such a big security con? I mean WTF > is so > > great about sniffing and hijacking? > > > > Now my post has some security content too. > > > > > yours was entirely useless... > > > > "Useless" is very subjective + relative + bla bla. Like my > post was > > meaningful to me but useless to you. Your post was > meaningful to you > > but useless to me. > > > > - Jimby > > > > ___ > > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. > > Charter: > http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html > > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ > > ___ > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ > > ___ > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] [Dailydave] Hacking software is lame -- try medical research...
I think I need to get some lunch and eat a bunch of CORNdogs. ;) - L On Sun, 2007-09-23 at 01:40 +0530, Jimby Sharp wrote: > > From: Kristian Erik Hermansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] [Dailydave] Hacking software is lame -- try > > medical research... > > > You are an idiot. > > :-O > > > What have you done for the security community > > lately... yeah now take a seat. > > Everyone is discussing their favorite topic. So let me discuss mine too. > > > My post had some security content and > > Ah ok! I'll rephrase my statements. > > I had a wonderful breakfast, two eggs and sandwich. :-) XSS is not > just about input validation but about output validation too. I am > flying to New York today. Can anyone tell me any good mall or store > where I can buy a good sleeping bag? > > Watering the plants was fun and so was the GMail point and click demo. > But wasn't that lame in such a big security con? I mean WTF is so > great about sniffing and hijacking? > > Now my post has some security content too. > > > yours was entirely useless... > > "Useless" is very subjective + relative + bla bla. Like my post was > meaningful to me but useless to you. Your post was meaningful to you > but useless to me. > > - Jimby > > ___ > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] “if you are not doing a nything wrong, why should you worry about it?”
EWWW.. :/ YUCK... The thought of it is bad enough... On Mon, 2006-02-20 at 15:42 -0800, coderman wrote: > On 2/20/06, Gadi Evron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > ... > > What's to stop them from putting cameras > > in our showers, next? > > ugly fat people nekkid? > ___ > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ -- Leif Ericksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] Orwell's country wants Big Brother backdoor in Vista cipher!
Yikes but go figure... That is step one at this point to many old farts around that would fight more intense step that is yet on the horizon. I see it coming some day and it is inevitable... Does anybody else know what step 2 is going to be when the old farts are gone? OR at least they can cram it down the throat of society starting with the younger ones... AKA the Children? Ok it goes something like this. TCPA is fully enacted on the hardware and almost a software level. But then again you might not need it on the software level, because of WorldGrid. Now your system will have no local hard drive, will have a flash ROM for the OS (Mac is now going to Intel so it will be easer for this to happen) ALL software vendors are attached to world grid so you will always have access to the latest and greatest software available. In comes Micro Transaction Billing. You will be charged a certain small amount to run the software you desire. Your files will be safe and secure on the grid as well so no matter where in the world you go you can always have access to your data. The story continues but I am sure you all can see the stage. Now of course your data is 'safe' because you can encrypt it on the Grid with your own password that you create. IF you have proper TCPA registration you are allowed on the grind and as thus on the Internet, if you do not sorry access denied! Back to the old days of using a modem on a BBS, or use of packet radio and the like. When the Governments of the world start and companies start trying to do this we know it will be the end of computers as we know them today. But as far as back doors in encryption goes, you seen these stories pop up every now and again. The only way to prevent a back door is to create your own security system and not put in a back door for your own use. That is the way things go in our great big an wonderful world. -- Leif Ericksen On Fri, 2006-02-17 at 12:56 +0100, Feher Tamas wrote: > Hello all, > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4713018.stm > > According to the above article from BBC News, the british > parliament is urging Blair government to negotiate with > Microsoft to implement a backdoor into the strong hard disk > encryption module of upcoming Windows Vista from day one. > > The interior affairs committe of MPs heard testimony by > Cambridge security design expert Ross Anderson. The > academican said new TPM-based "BitLocker Drive Encryption" > schemes in Microsoft Vista would be too difficult to break > in the short timeframe terror suspects can be held without > charge and thus cases could collapse for lack of evidence as > detainees avoid self-incrimination by inventing tales of > lost keys and passwords. > > The expert's answer is to put a backdoor into the BitLocker > program code to bypass password and key checks. Critics > argue this move would be hypocrisy, since the TPM based > encryption method was invented to protect the interests of > music and movie industry in the first place, who wanted to > base their DRM schemes on encrypted files, which cannot be > modified, ripped or shared meaningfully. Thus encryption is > strong when used against the users, but would become weak or > non-existent when people could use it for personal legal > defence. > > Regards: Tamas Feher from Hungary. > > ___ > [origo] klikkbank lakossági számlacsomag havi 199 Ft-ért, bankkártya éves díj > nélkül! > www.klikkbank.hu > > > ___ > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ -- Leif Ericksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] NSA tracking open source security tools
es and yow are busted. Simply reading this message or any part of it will implant and RFID in your head so that they can track you. The only way to prevent tracking is to make a helmet out of tin foil and have it on your head at ALL TIMES. But once you do that NEVER EVER take the helmet off or a energy bean will be focused upon you within .2 Milliseconds a and burn you up, spontaneous human combustion is what it will be it will be called in the news media. Also if you so much as down loaded this message to your computer they will know that it was on your computer and you are SOL, if you looked at the subject line you are sol. For those of of us in the US if we do not like what the government is doing try running for a political office... Maybe you can fix the problem, not voting does not help, I am a democrat so I will ONLY vote democrat does not help, I am a republican so I will only vote republican does not help, I hate both parties so I only vote one of the third parties might help but since voting is what is is that might not help much either, Some of those should take you back to stuff that was floating around the net oh say around 1992 some are new to come up with the modern times. PS: if you took the time to read all the rhetoric in my block above you are either being paid to do it, or you are even more bored than I am at this moment or you are really in need of help especially if you are getting all excited about the fact that you are being tracked. If you are all hot and bothered about the government tracking you based on this message, please pull out a phone book and look for a good mental health professional that is legally allowed to prescribe medications. Bring a copy of this message to the Doc, let the Doc know that you are all excited and bothered by this message and the fact that the government is tracking you because of this message and ask if the Doc can help. Once the Doc gives you a prescription RUN DO NOT WALK to the nearest pharmacy, and start taking the pills as prescribed. -- Leif Ericksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] zepcom001
HUMMM To me that looks like a binary file being sent to the printer or lp or lpd device... Normally it is a bad idea to send binary files to the printers because they do not know how to deal with such files. Security risk maybe. Just means you have stupid users if they are going to send binaries to a printer. After all it will cause may one or two lines of junk to be printed if not the entire page, and maybe even so much junk that it makes the printer run out of paper. Kill the job reset the printer wait for next stupid user. rather than using /ntldr or /kernel build your own binary and print it. On Sat, 2006-02-04 at 06:29 +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > zepcom-001.txt > Hello dear readers and welcome to our fist advisory! > we have found a ressurse exarstion bog in notepad and assosiated > ressurses. > if u have a printer and u type start and run and type notepad and > then you type > NOTEPAD.EXE /P C:\NTLDR and not make mutex_a to prevent dedflock > then your PRINTER will run OUT of PAPER! this is bad!! > This is a serrius ressurse starvation of big company if they print > regnings > or other important papers. This has been veriffied on: > > windows NT ( UNTESTED ) > > windows 2000 sp0 > windows 2000 sp1 > windows 2000 sp2 > windows 2000 sp3 > windows 2000 sp4 > windows 2000 sp5 > windows 2000 sp6 > > windows XP sp0 > windows XP sp1 > windows XP sp2 > windows XP sp3 > > AND OPEN SOURC EALSO HAS PROBLEM WITH CAT > IF you use cat and feed to telnet and port 90+00 of > print server and put to /kernel then you can kill the printer! > This can be very serius flav for big billing company -- Leif Ericksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure][WAY OFF TOPIC] complaints about the governemnt spying!
The bible code believers was that history channel or discovery??? Say there are WMD but they are not in Iraq... They have decrypted the hidden message and the WMD are out of Iraq, and were moved out some time ago but they do exists. how they come up with some of their ideas is just nuts if you ask me. My wife being a former Jar head was pissed at the events of 9/11 and said lets nuke the entire middle east. I am glad she is not in charge of the Nukes that would pose a bigger mess, but what a nice sheet of glass it would make. -- lhe On Thu, 2005-12-29 at 16:59 -0800, zap zoid wrote: > Since when did Iraq have terrorists? I thought you guys were going in > to rid them of weapons of mass instruction. > > After nearly 16 years and your government still has yet to find these > so called weapons. I have more mitre listings then Iraq has weapons op > Mass instruction > > --tada > > On 12/29/05, Paul Schmehl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --On December 29, 2005 11:21:09 PM +0100 fok yo > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Hey Paul! > > > > What do you think about obeying the list charter and > at least try > > to tie your degenerate apologist misrepresentations of the > world into > > information security somehow? > > > > > > Can't but second this. > > > Interesting charter. Folks can blather on and on about how > bad the US is, > how evil Bush is, make all sorts of outrageous, unsupportable > claims, but > the first time someone calls them on it, we cry, "Wah, wah, > you're not > obeying the charter!" > > I understand you guys like to spew this crap unimpeded. I > just enjoy > throwing a monkey wrench in the works every now and > then. Don't like it? > Then shut up and go back to discussing security issues. > > Paul Schmehl ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) > Adjunct Information Security Officer > University of Texas at Dallas > AVIEN Founding Member > http://www.utdallas.edu/ > ___ > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ > > ___ > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ -- Leif Ericksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] complaints about the governemnt spying!
to sum it all up... 1 giant catch 22. You are damned if you do and you are damned if you do not. --l On Thu, 2005-12-29 at 16:35 -0500, bkfsec wrote: > Leif Ericksen wrote: > > >It comes back to ignorance of the law is no excuse. > > > > > > > Ahh, but there's a BIG difference between willful or unwillful ignorance > and intentional ignorance. > > It's one thing to not know a law that you should know; it's a completely > different thing to be blocked from knowing the law and expected to > respect it. > > For instance, in securing networks, corporate security personnel in the > United States should be familiar with Sarbanes-Oxley and the like, at > least in passing. Compliance is expected because compliance can be > tested. Not being aware of the requirements of Sarbanes-Oxley is not an > excuse because the law is readily available and transparent. However, > if the government passed Sarbanes-Oxley and then turned around and said > "But for security reasons, the requirements are classified and even the > judges can't see them without clearance..." that would be different. > > How can you guarantee compliance with a behavior when you don't have > access to the standard? > > This is no different than any other standard of behavior. If people are > not allowed to know the laws, they have no way to verify their > complicity with them. I respectfully submit that the situations are > different in their entirety and that in the case of a classified law, > ignorance is intentionally created as a function of the creation of the law. > > Such things cannot simply be written off. > > -bkfsec > > -- Leif Ericksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] complaints about the governemnt spying!
This one I could not leave alone Speaking of the terrorist COWARDS. If their cause is so just and noble to their God, how come they have to hide their faces under a black hood. I equate them to nothing less the a group we had in and sadly still can find here in the US at times. I might make some enemies now... The KKK yep the Terrorists that hide under a hood are no different that the KKK. If there case is so just why do they not show us their faces. a stupid low life COWARD that is all a terrorist is. They would never be willing to take a person on bare handed and hand to hand. -- lhe On Thu, 2005-12-29 at 14:37 -0600, Paul Schmehl wrote: > --On December 29, 2005 3:06:35 PM -0500 Michael Holstein > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >> The security directives are secret because you don't > >> show your hand to the enemy (except if you work for the New York Times.) > > > > Uh huh .. so the newspaper informing the public about an illegal > > government program (after holding the article for a year at the > > government's request) is "helping the enemy" > > > Yes, because 1) the program isn't illegal and 2) the program was top > secret. In order for the Times to print the story, they had to encourage > people who had sworn a secrecy oath to break the law. Then, knowing that > what they were publishing would tip off the terrorists to what the > government was doing to capture them, they published it anyway. > > And the funniest thing of all is that they got stupid Americans all riled > about about civil and privacy rights in the process, completely losing > track of what's really important - preventing another attack on our soil. > > Or have you already forgetten that terrorists have been killing us (and > many others around the world) since the 1970's without pause? Do I really > need to publish the litany of people that have died - people like Leon > Klinghoeffer, a wheelchair-bound elderly Jew who was pushed off a boat to > drown in the ocean simply because he was a Jew? People like Petty Officer > Stethem who was beaten, shot in the head and dumped on the airport tarmac > for the crime of being a member of the US military? Do we really need to > review the bloody history of Islamic terrorism for you to get the point? > > Thousands had died before 9/11, yet the world slept. Now the world is > going back to sleep, insisting that the *real* problem is repressive > governments, not people who slaughter innocent men, women and children of > every race, creed, nationality and sex without discrimination and without > mercy. > > > It seems so many have forgotten who the true enemy is. > > > Yes, they have. Especially the anti-war bozos who think they can tame a > Zarqawi by giving in to his demands. And apparently many more who think > terrorism is no menace at all. > > > "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary > > safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." (Jefferson, 1759). > > > Note the modifiers "essential" and "temporary". You give up liberties all > the time for the better of society. Or have you forgotten that you can get > a ticket for speeding, be arrested for getting drunk or go to jail for > burning down your own house? > > Society has rules for a reason. Sometimes those rules impose limits on > what you can and can't do. We could remove the ID checks for airports and > just let the terrorists blow planes up willy-nilly. I suppose there are > some people who wouldn't be too bothered by that, so long as it isn't the > plane they are on that's being blown up. > > Paul Schmehl ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) > Adjunct Information Security Officer > University of Texas at Dallas > AVIEN Founding Member > http://www.utdallas.edu/ > ___ > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ -- Leif Ericksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] complaints about the governemnt spying!
That is a good question... but showing and ID is good enough for you to purchase alcohol if you are 21 or over in the US. Folks are supposedly trained to be able to spot fakes as well they have a book available to compare them against if they are unsure. So with a good fake ID a person can make it on the transport. With a fake name and a fake id they can again. It just raises the difficulty level a bit. Now with air travel how hard is it for an East German or say a Palestinian to travel on the Israeli Airlines (what is its name again) How about even a US citizen of E German decent or has a VISA stamp from a country that Israel considers hostile. Personally I would only know from what I have seen on the net can anybody tell us of first hand experiences? -- Leif On Thu, 2005-12-29 at 12:37 -0800, Benjamin Krueger wrote: > * Leif Ericksen ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [051229 12:29]: > > Actually MOST states in the US require that you have a photo ID if you > > are over the age of 18. It can be A Driver License or it can be a > > generic state issued ID. As far as air travel is concerned, a quick > > looks see gave me this: > > http://www.tsa.gov/public/display?content=090005198004a900 > > > > Personally I do not mid the requirement for an ID for air/bus/train > > travel. But if I am driving say from Illinois to Arizona I do not want > > to stop at every single states (border) line and show my ID. That would > > be ridiculous. But for the safety of myself and others on a mass > > transit I feel it is fair game. IF you do not like it drive. > > > > If the airlines start to require a biometric ID (DNA based or otherwise) > > then I will complain that is way to far over board. But asking you for > > your passport, DL/or state Id no big deal. > > > > > > -- > > Leif > > How does showing ID to an official make anyone safer? > -- Leif Ericksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] Is this a Virus?
HUMMM Could it be CACHE! just what is plain web browsing? On Thu, 2005-12-29 at 10:44 -0800, Hochin Chen wrote: > List, > > When I reboot my computer I have 2 GB space. After about 4 hours of plain > web browsing, I get a low space message. The space left is 1 MB. > Something keeps on filling up my hard drive when my machine is on. How do I > figure out what? Anyone heard of this > > Help appreciated > > Thanks > ___ > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ -- Leif Ericksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] complaints about the governemnt spying!
Actually MOST states in the US require that you have a photo ID if you are over the age of 18. It can be A Driver License or it can be a generic state issued ID. As far as air travel is concerned, a quick looks see gave me this: http://www.tsa.gov/public/display?content=090005198004a900 Personally I do not mid the requirement for an ID for air/bus/train travel. But if I am driving say from Illinois to Arizona I do not want to stop at every single states (border) line and show my ID. That would be ridiculous. But for the safety of myself and others on a mass transit I feel it is fair game. IF you do not like it drive. If the airlines start to require a biometric ID (DNA based or otherwise) then I will complain that is way to far over board. But asking you for your passport, DL/or state Id no big deal. -- Leif On Thu, 2005-12-29 at 13:56 -0600, Paul Schmehl wrote: > --On December 29, 2005 2:05:23 PM -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 08:04:43 CST, Leif Ericksen said: > >> There are those laws that are direct and clear cut, and there are the > >> ones that takes an act of congress to decide what is legal or not. ;) > > > > And then there are those you're not allowed to even *see*. In Gilmore v. > > Ashcroft, the Department of Justice finally consented to allow a *judge* > > with a security clearance to see the text of the law, but Gilmore and his > > attorneys are still denied access to what the law says. > > That's a silly misrepresentation of the facts of the case. There *is* no > law requiring the presentation of ID at an airport. There *is* a law that > makes it illegal to hijack a plane, and there *are* security directives, > issued by the FAA, which define the means and methods by which the law will > be enforced. Among those is the requirement to show ID upon request. The > security directives are secret because you don't show your hand to the > enemy (except if you work for the New York Times.) > > Mr. Gilmore, who is an activist civil libertarian, deliberately entered an > airport without an form of ID, then refused to produce ID when requested. > When he was then asked to undergo a more thorough screening, he refused > that as well. He was then arrested and removed from the airport. > > Every airport has signs everywhere instructing you to provide a photo ID. > Only someone who was deliberately trying to disrupt the system would enter > an airport with ID, refuse to show ID, refuse a thorough screening, and > then complain when they were arrested - after which they file a lawsuit for > large money damages. > > So, while everybody eagerly portrays Mr. Gilmore as an innocent citizen > just trying to about his daily life, he was far from it, knew when he > entered the airport he was going to cause trouble, deliberately chose to do > so anyway and now whines about his rights being violated. > > Paul Schmehl ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) > Adjunct Information Security Officer > University of Texas at Dallas > AVIEN Founding Member > http://www.utdallas.edu/ > ___ > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ -- Leif Ericksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] complaints about the governemnt spying!
It comes back to ignorance of the law is no excuse. So depending on the Lawyers, and the judges and possible jury you are either boned or get a slight slap and are told do not do it again! -- Lhe On Thu, 2005-12-29 at 14:14 -0500, bkfsec wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > >On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 08:04:43 CST, Leif Ericksen said: > > > > > >>There are those laws that are direct and clear cut, and there are the > >>ones that takes an act of congress to decide what is legal or not. ;) > >> > >> > > > >And then there are those you're not allowed to even *see*. In Gilmore v. > >Ashcroft, > >the Department of Justice finally consented to allow a *judge* with a > >security > >clearance to see the text of the law, but Gilmore and his attorneys are still > >denied access to what the law says. > > > > > > Which begs the question... How do you break a law that you don't know > exists? > > How can one be expected not to break the law if the law is never made > available? > >-bkfsec > > -- Leif Ericksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] Spy Agency Mined Vast Data Trove and other tales
Yup got to go after the politicians and those folks that worked for the three letter agencies or unnamed agencies or otherwise can be decent folks. They just have a job to do. Education of the masses is key. We can not whine about something that is in progress. It was not done at before year , but now they are doing it what has changed what is the law or presidential writ/act (for us in the US) that allows this to take place. Then you have to start calling your reps and let them know that their job is potentially at risk by letting them know your stance on the issue and that will follow the issue and vote accordingly. Be careful, do not make it a threat... Just express your stance on the issue they will know that you might not vote for them if they do not go your way. The other problem is you have to convince many other folks that your view point is one that needs to be listened to. Give facts, not complaints they can not do this. Give it emotion and feeling, let those you educate know that they themselves could be impacted in a positive or negative way so that they will want to take your stance on the issue as well.. Has any body ever had the issue were you are told DON'T LOOK what is one of the first things that normally happens? HUGH, what and you look to were the voice said don't look? I know it has happened to me (as the looker) more than once. How many people have been tempted or have actually gone places they should not have? you see a sign that states "do not enter", "no trespassing" has it ever peaked an interest to the likes of hum, what is behind that door, what is in the way back of that property? :) Soem people will just poke around at the boarder while others will try to cross and find out up close. The heck with curiosity killed the cat. -- Lhe On Wed, 2005-12-28 at 22:01 -0800, Steve Kudlak wrote: > > It is kind of think it is a "UFO story" to say that PGP and the likes > don't work and have been quietlty changed to make them easy to break. > The inventors being compromised is pretty much an MIB story. It is open > code so you can read it and see if it is possible to break and how > easily given current open knowledge. Now if the mathematicians in the > NSA know things about factoring we don't well oh well. What is depended > on is that most people don't encrypt and most things are sent in the > open. This includes most transactions that can be used to build a sort > of profile. If I were to start spending other than cash quietly and > using banks in any way at least my bankers would know some improvement > had taken place and they at least have agreed to release a lot of > information to competent authorities. Also this stuff is sent pretty > much encrypted. SO there is a lot of information out there to gather and > much of the idea about datamining is to get things out of easily > available unencrypted sources. The same with phone calls. Very few > people have STU phones or equivelent. it is amazing how stuff just gets > known because people can't or most often won't be careful. The big > problem with datamining is getting pattern out of data and telling what > that pattern means. This is a problem in a lot of fields, there is a > storm sitting out in the Pacific over a relatively sensor rich area and > I have all sorts of information about its behavior, about SST (sea > surface temperature) etc. but it is hard trying to figure out how that > will impact where I live. > > Those of us who have worked on big projects inside of large entities and > the like know that the people there are often like you and me, despite > what the X-Files and true believers say. But that scary stuff does make > it more romantic. You are right that however that putting pressure on > politicos will get them to change, and people in security agencies are > human too and not inhuman monsters and many care a lot about the nature > of their work and as onme might notice when someone goes too far little > leaks sprout. > > > Have Fun, > Sends Steve > > > > > > > ___ > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] Re: [MailServer Notification]To recipient: Message matched eManager setting and action was taken.
Filters can only do so much it takes a person behind it to decide if it was a valid bloc or not. Now I have an answer to a question but it may have been rhetorical. Q: > -- > where do you want bill gates to go today? > 1 of two places sound out clear to me. 1) Iraq, Baghdad with a sign stating I am Bill Gates, I let women work for me and they do not have to be covered up and I do not mind if they are stupid or educated. 2) China with a sign that states I am Bill Gates, I have come to China to make sure you aer not stealing my products. If I find copies of it that you have not paid for I will demand payment. -- lhe On Thu, 2005-12-29 at 16:17 +0200, Georgi Guninski wrote: > On Thu, Dec 29, 2005 at 05:36:36AM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > I've found that calling somebody a "fucking idiot" won't trigger most of > > those > > scanners, but saying that something is "a real bitch to configure correctly" > > will. Go figure. ;) > > > > i believe the fucking word "fuck" triggers some .gov filters in a noisy > way :) > ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] complaints about the governemnt spying!
There are those laws that are direct and clear cut, and there are the ones that takes an act of congress to decide what is legal or not. ;) Regulations of HIPPA as I understand it are very confusing, and can lead to a person being a law breaker if they do not follow the regs correctly, same can be said of SOX. Then there is always the patriot act. Now there used to be a time that if you did not like the president of the US you could speak out publicly against him. Well I heard of an incident in Chicago, IL when Clinton was president that somebody expressed his dislike of the man with profanity and was jailed for a weekend Late Friday-Monday and no charges were filled. Now he could have been jailed on the OLD law that is still on the books that states you can not cuss in public in front of a woman, much like the law that states you can not spit on the ground (1930 law is it?) Laws are crazy and sometimes stupid much like it is legal to have SEX with a sheep in Wisconsin. Any folks from Wisconsin here might be able to tell us if that is still the case or not. The sad thing is ignorance of the law is no excuse. screaming and crying about it does NOTHING. IT takes action. IF we do not like something we have to contact our elected officials, or try to run for office ourselves to make the change. The biggest problem is the government moved to fast. IF you want to indoctrinate people into a new idea or concept and have less complaints, you have a few things that you have to do. 1 make the people stupid 2 start with the youngsters (Children, I have 3) hope the parents are stupid and so they do not try to teach their kids themselves. After all it is common practice and always has been common practice to have a police officer assigned to the local High School correct? (Wait I did not have one when I was in School) After all we have always had the WWW have we not? With that we have always had monitoring in place so if an extra level of monitoring is in place it is no big deal right? Wait, I had no idea what the WWW was when I was in school nor did I know what IRC was, but in college I used a relay off of PSUVM and had IRC like chats with folks /role It is a process that is moving far to fast. To argue, well the schools or companies can monitor the networks because it is the property of the company but the government can not monitor the networks is actually a weak argument. After all who owns the primary data channels? Who funded the Internet here in the US (US Tax dollars to the US government ARPA/DARPA). Crying and whining they can not do this is just wrong. The government can monitor the traffic that passes within its boarders and do monitor it here and in other countries. The only way to fight this effectively is to become politically active, as well as to properly educate CHILDREN and net newbies that this is not how it used to be. It is all in the matter of the laws, making them understandable, and not attaching stupid riders (PORK) that have nothing to do with the law just to make it pass. Well these 20-30 folks do not like this law that we are trying to pass, they do like this little 50 Million$ expense that we 20 - 30 do not like so to make this easier to pass lets attach their expense to this bill a matter of compromise. That kind of crap has to stop. But since I am not one of the members of the Hill Gang I can not do anything about it other than educate my children and call my elected officials. (I have done that) -- Leif Ericksen On Thu, 2005-12-29 at 05:32 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 18:28:16 +0100, GroundZero Security said: > > your last point was "*IF* you are not doing *nothing illegal* > > How does a US citizen know they are doing "nothing illegal", when the > government apparently feels that secret laws are acceptable, and thus > could be in violation of some Kafka-esque law that won't be revealed to > the guilty party? > > (Those who think I'm kidding should go read up on Gilmore v. Ashcroft) -- Leif Ericksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
[Full-disclosure] Re: Report to Recipient(s): Banned Content
Another one blocking content. On Wed, 2005-12-28 at 13:02 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > Incident Information:- > > Originator: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Recipients: Leif Ericksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, > full-disclosure@lists.grok.org.uk > Subject:Re: [Full-disclosure] Spy Agency Mined Vast Data Trove > > Message from [EMAIL PROTECTED] was quarantined > because it contained banned content. If it is urgent that you receive this > message in the next 4 hours, please call the IT Support Center at ext. > 303-969- and open a trouble ticket. Please NOTE emails from > subscription services and personal emails will not be forwarded. > -- Leif Ericksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
[Full-disclosure] Re: [MailServer Notification]To recipient: Message matched eManager setting and action was taken.
What do you know sample of spying at work! Were did this one come from? On Wed, 2005-12-28 at 15:02 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > eManager Notification * > > The following mail was blocked since it contains sensitive content. > > Source mailbox: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Destination mailbox(es): Leif Ericksen;full-disclosure@lists.grok.org.uk > Rule/Policy: Sexual Discrimination > Action: Quarantine to C:\Program > Files\Trend\SMCF\Quarantine\2005-12-28\15\02\DFImessagebody43b2ef57875.tmp > > USNAEXCH Content filter has detected a sensitive e-mail. For assistance > please contact the Dimension Data Help Desk via the web at > https://help.us.didata.com, or by phone call 1-800-318-0436. > > *** End of message * -- Leif Ericksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] complaints about the governemnt spying!
Ah yes my archaic thinking bites me the the ASS often ;)... I know that there are those out there that follow what I am saying and are most likely ROTFL. Then there are the shallow minded folks that can not follow me at all. GroundZero You seem to have followed some of the archaic thoughts, and pointed it out. AS such you are on the deep end of the pool. ;) One has to think am I an Idiot? Am I trying to get my message out to fast and not reviewing what I say, am I lysDexic? or Am I simply messing with shallow minded folks on an issue that has many faces. That I will leave up to the reader. How many people out there believe or feel that we as a WORLD our headed to a time when we may be unified or a large section of the world will be unified under one controlling source? (Do not laugh, it in part has started the Euro would be an example of that.) In order for something like this to take place we are going to see an event that is truly earth shattering, an event with such political and socio-economic upheaval that that makes everybody in the world demand a solution. Somebody that is very convincing plan comes up and world unification comes about. At that you are issued a citizenship number for the unified world. This number as it turns out will dictate where you are in society and what you are allowed to buy, sell, work or what not. I see such a time coming. I hope I am not there for it. If you want to complain about the control an snooping that goes on now. Just wait it will get far worse before it gets better. Now, am I messing with people am I serious, or am I just another wacko or some sort of visionary. It is plain and simple we live in a world where the government's U.S. and others do spy on peoples net traffic. crying foul will not fix it. Get in office or lobby complaints against the leaders to make it stop. That is the only way. Otherwise it will continue to happen. -- Leif On Wed, 2005-12-28 at 18:28 +0100, GroundZero Security wrote: > your last point was "*IF* you are not doing *nothing illegal* and have > nothing to hide no big deal." > thats what i responded on. try to stick to your points :-) > > - Original Message - > From: "Leif Ericksen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 6:08 PM > Subject: [Full-disclosure] complaints about the governemnt spying! > > > > I know I know I have the answer. May of you really do not understand > > what I am saying. > > > > TO the point yes it is wrong, most people out there fail to understand > > what I am saying since I am not being very direct and to the point. My > > point is it is time to stop crying foul and do something about it. > > > > How about this if I setup a PayPal account how many people are willing > > to donate money to my cause (I will take money from anybody). I will > > run for Office and part of my promise will be to stop the US government > > from spying on people (Sorry, I can not help you with your government if > > you are not in the US, but I can try to build a diplomatic relationship > > and end it). > > > > I feel that IF I set up the account and I can get at least $1 million US > > in the account I will have enough money to get started on my campaign. > > > > My platform even though we should anticipate the government(s) to spy on > > us when we send a packet out into the wild, and we want to go into > > deepest Africa, the everglades of Florida or the LA swamps we can be > > secure in that no hard will come to us. (Well I will have to pay a > > political adviser to help me come up with a better platform so make that > > 1.5Mil unless you want to run with me and are a US citizen) lets make it > > our campaign! > > > > > > Any takers? > > > > -- > > Leif Ericksen > > > > > > -- > > Leif Ericksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > ___ > > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. > > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html > > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ > > -- Leif Ericksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
[Full-disclosure] complaints about the governemnt spying!
I know I know I have the answer. May of you really do not understand what I am saying. TO the point yes it is wrong, most people out there fail to understand what I am saying since I am not being very direct and to the point. My point is it is time to stop crying foul and do something about it. How about this if I setup a PayPal account how many people are willing to donate money to my cause (I will take money from anybody). I will run for Office and part of my promise will be to stop the US government from spying on people (Sorry, I can not help you with your government if you are not in the US, but I can try to build a diplomatic relationship and end it). I feel that IF I set up the account and I can get at least $1 million US in the account I will have enough money to get started on my campaign. My platform even though we should anticipate the government(s) to spy on us when we send a packet out into the wild, and we want to go into deepest Africa, the everglades of Florida or the LA swamps we can be secure in that no hard will come to us. (Well I will have to pay a political adviser to help me come up with a better platform so make that 1.5Mil unless you want to run with me and are a US citizen) lets make it our campaign! Any takers? -- Leif Ericksen -- Leif Ericksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] Spy Agency Mined Vast Data Trove
hould get your privacy, or do > you want to > feel beeing watched all the time whatever you do ? i dont know, but i wouldnt > feel free if > i knew any nation on the world (so hundreds of people) profile me and watch > what i do even > though i'm not a criminal. they dont have to see the pictures my friends send > me or read > all my emails to business partners where i signed a NDA and could get sue'd > if information > leaks. > > - Original Message - > From: "Leif Ericksen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Rodrigo Barbosa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 3:32 PM > Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] Spy Agency Mined Vast Data Trove > > > > As was stated in previous post Echelon is old news, even Carnivore was > > supposedly dumped for newer technology. As I stated in a previous > > example the government can come in and request the keys if they need it. > > If that story that my prof told the class in 1988 was true. Now that > > story supposedly took place a few years before that class. so lets say > > that happened in 1982-198 is my best guess. > > > > The key is monitoring is being done. AS for the encryption. there are > > some that would argue that any STRONG encryption that is allowed to > > exist in the US ( PGP and the likes) has been modified by the NSA so > > that they have a generic key that will open any door. Otherwise the > > creator of such encryption will disappear and never comeback. IS this > > true or is this just a silly story. I do not know I have not invented > > an encryption system. I will let you know when I do if I am forced by > > the government to give a cracking method. ;) > > > > If the stories of the government having a back door key are true then I > > would be willing to bet that any technologically advance country would > > subscribe to the same plan to protect their own interests. > > > > Another thing to think about is just how many PRIMARY traffic points do > > we have that a majority of the traffic goes through. Lets see in the US > > we have MEA_EAT, MAE-WEST, MAE-CENTRAL, as well as others. > > (what were the locations... Hendron, VA, Chicago, IL, LA, CA, Dalas, or > > was it Huston TX. was there not near Central Florida?) > > > > Lets look at the UFO thought here for a moment. The governments deny > > that they exist so people really think and believe that they do exist. > > So much so that some are willing to put their lives at risk to break > > through the Govs defenses to prove that they know Aliens do exist. > > Well the harder we try to hide our data from the government the more > > they are going to think that you are an entity that needs to be taken > > down as a threat to the government be the government US, UK, Sweden, > > Norway, China, Japan, N/S Korea, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, India, Africa. > > and down under. Yes, I missed just a few I am to lazy to list all of > > them. > > > > Now making complaints and noise about the problem is not going to do > > anything abut it. IF you know the problem exists and you have an answer > > start fighting in it a good way. Run for office on a platform to stop > > government spying. If it is a national platform in the US I am willing > > to give you my vote. I hope you will give me yours.. All the emails > > they can not do that is just noise white noise at that. Until you start > > running for an office or even write your congress folks letting them > > know how pissed off you are and that they are not going to get your vote > > they do not care. > > > > What I want to know is how do I start running for office in the US? I > > would not mind becoming part of the government so that I could help form > > a new direction that is less invasive to the peoples privacy. I am not > > a Yale, or Harvard grad I do not belong to Skull and bones, or the > > Masons, or the Lions, or even the Illuminati so how do I get in on a > > national ticket? > > > > -- > > Leif Ericksen > > PS... This may seem contrary to some of my older posts... But I am > > putting more into it now. Rather than just stop crying foul since > > nobody asked what should I do.. They said I missed the point but in > > reality they missed the point. They point is there is nothing that can > > be done by crying about it. It takes action, and using encryption will > > not do it if you are of the school that believes the government(s) have > > a back door key. Action is required but crying about it is going to do > > noth
Re: [Full-disclosure] Spy Agency Mined Vast Data Trove
If you do not want to live in a prison state run for office or contact the elected officials and them them know that you are upset. With the glide path we are on now it is inevitable. I knew about monitoring of conversations on the phone and electronic dating back to 1988. We may be to late to stop it... On Wed, 2005-12-28 at 09:52 -0500, Joshua Levitsky wrote: > On Dec 28, 2005, at 8:59 AM, Leif Ericksen wrote: > > > Actually after reading some of the the comments I have to say you all > > missed the point... *IF* you are not doing *nothing illegal* and have > > nothing to hide no big deal. > > Laws change. Prior to Prohibition it would have been legal to drink > alcohol in the United States. The reason Big Brother is bad is not > always for the laws you are breaking today, but for the laws that > have not yet been written that you may be held accountable for > tomorrow. There are reasons that we in the U.S. have rules around > wire taps and other information gathering. I do not want to live in a > prison state. > > > > -- Leif Ericksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] Spy Agency Mined Vast Data Trove
If the traffic goes through a US based HOP anticipate that it will be monitored. They do not care where you are from. IT passes through the US it will be monitored since it has a foreign start and end point. Now is your traffic legit? Are you moving legal money around? Are you a drug dealer legal or otherwise? Are you a dealing with other items that might be illegal in the US and are trying to get them here via Canada? If it is Canada to Brazil and does not touch US routing anticipate your own government as well as the Canadian government to be monitoring your traffic leaving the us completely out of the picture. IT is so easy for people to pick on the USA. But, they may fear their own government or say "our government does not do that". To whit I would say Bull Shit, wake up and smell the coffee. Again it is easy to pick on the US we are allowed to speak out against our government to a point at least. I would say ALL governments that have Internet traffic will monitor it it some way shape or form, even more so for the stuff that leaves their countries boarders. -- Lhe On Wed, 2005-12-28 at 12:20 -0200, Rodrigo Barbosa wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Wed, Dec 28, 2005 at 07:59:10AM -0600, Leif Ericksen wrote: > > Actually after reading some of the the comments I have to say you all > > missed the point... *IF* you are not doing *nothing illegal* and have > > nothing to hide no big deal. > > Talk about missing the point ... > > > "I do not want the Government to see my banking info" > > HUM, did you ever hear of the SSN? Are you putting massive amounts of > > cash that can not be accounted for into your bank? BUT wait what is the > > limit it used to be $10,000US that if you moved that much money you had > > to fill out some papers as to why you were moving that money. So the > > government will know. > > Lemme try explaining it to you using more words. > > Do I want the USA Government to see my brazilian banking information, > considering I'm a brazilian citizen that might be traveling to > Canada ? Including my PIN and password and such other stuff ? > > The point is that the NSA (et al) can't know beforehand if the > trafic they are monitoring is something they are allowed to monitor, > so they have to check it all. What right, or even reason, do they > have to monitor banking traffic originated in Canada with Brazil as > the destination ? > > > Again, if all you actions are legit they will soon go away and leave you > > alone. > > Yes, in a perfect world, run by perfect law abiding people, which is > not the case of ANY government, or even any institution. Unfortuntely, > on the world we live in, powers are more often abused than not. > > > I will admit this... I live in a state where we have an electronic > > device in our car that is used on the tollway that pays your fees for > > being on the road. > > We have those around here too, but you can choose not to use it, and pay > in cash at the booth. It is a PITA not using it, but you have a choice. > > - -- > Rodrigo Barbosa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > "Quid quid Latine dictum sit, altum viditur" > "Be excellent to each other ..." - Bill & Ted (Wyld Stallyns) > > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFDsp83pdyWzQ5b5ckRAo+lAKCsWYLUkd4gejfLLsO/V9bWi80RWACgkRXW > O7/i7mqmafny5L3208M07To= > =lW4X > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > ___ > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ -- Leif Ericksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] Spy Agency Mined Vast Data Trove
As was stated in previous post Echelon is old news, even Carnivore was supposedly dumped for newer technology. As I stated in a previous example the government can come in and request the keys if they need it. If that story that my prof told the class in 1988 was true. Now that story supposedly took place a few years before that class. so lets say that happened in 1982-198 is my best guess. The key is monitoring is being done. AS for the encryption. there are some that would argue that any STRONG encryption that is allowed to exist in the US ( PGP and the likes) has been modified by the NSA so that they have a generic key that will open any door. Otherwise the creator of such encryption will disappear and never comeback. IS this true or is this just a silly story. I do not know I have not invented an encryption system. I will let you know when I do if I am forced by the government to give a cracking method. ;) If the stories of the government having a back door key are true then I would be willing to bet that any technologically advance country would subscribe to the same plan to protect their own interests. Another thing to think about is just how many PRIMARY traffic points do we have that a majority of the traffic goes through. Lets see in the US we have MEA_EAT, MAE-WEST, MAE-CENTRAL, as well as others. (what were the locations... Hendron, VA, Chicago, IL, LA, CA, Dalas, or was it Huston TX. was there not near Central Florida?) Lets look at the UFO thought here for a moment. The governments deny that they exist so people really think and believe that they do exist. So much so that some are willing to put their lives at risk to break through the Govs defenses to prove that they know Aliens do exist. Well the harder we try to hide our data from the government the more they are going to think that you are an entity that needs to be taken down as a threat to the government be the government US, UK, Sweden, Norway, China, Japan, N/S Korea, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, India, Africa. and down under. Yes, I missed just a few I am to lazy to list all of them. Now making complaints and noise about the problem is not going to do anything abut it. IF you know the problem exists and you have an answer start fighting in it a good way. Run for office on a platform to stop government spying. If it is a national platform in the US I am willing to give you my vote. I hope you will give me yours.. All the emails they can not do that is just noise white noise at that. Until you start running for an office or even write your congress folks letting them know how pissed off you are and that they are not going to get your vote they do not care. What I want to know is how do I start running for office in the US? I would not mind becoming part of the government so that I could help form a new direction that is less invasive to the peoples privacy. I am not a Yale, or Harvard grad I do not belong to Skull and bones, or the Masons, or the Lions, or even the Illuminati so how do I get in on a national ticket? -- Leif Ericksen PS... This may seem contrary to some of my older posts... But I am putting more into it now. Rather than just stop crying foul since nobody asked what should I do.. They said I missed the point but in reality they missed the point. They point is there is nothing that can be done by crying about it. It takes action, and using encryption will not do it if you are of the school that believes the government(s) have a back door key. Action is required but crying about it is going to do nothing again it is white noise. Become A Klaxon, and write to your government officials with a strong voice, or try to become one of the government officials. for those of us in the US at least at present if we disagree with our elected leaders we can not be shot, but I am sure that day is coming if we stay on our current glide path. On Tue, 2005-12-27 at 03:04 -0200, Rodrigo Barbosa wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Mon, Dec 26, 2005 at 10:11:45PM -0600, Leif Ericksen wrote: > > Really if we have nothing to hide we should not fear them listening to > > us. Now if they come in and start forcing a special mark or code word > > or something special in order to live or buy or sell anything then it is > > time to revolt. > > Now, that is an interesting view of someone who really is not paying > attention. > > What would you qualify as "something to hide" ? How about my banking > account data ? How about the trade secrets of my company ? > > Well, how can I be sure they are not giving or selling this data to > someone else, maybe one of the corporations that are financing political > campains ? > > Would you mind of other governments started listening to your conversation ? > What about other governments listening to conversations from USA > corporations ? > > Just because
Re: [Full-disclosure] Spy Agency Mined Vast Data Trove
Actually after reading some of the the comments I have to say you all missed the point... *IF* you are not doing *nothing illegal* and have nothing to hide no big deal. "I do not want the Government to see my banking info" HUM, did you ever hear of the SSN? Are you putting massive amounts of cash that can not be accounted for into your bank? BUT wait what is the limit it used to be $10,000US that if you moved that much money you had to fill out some papers as to why you were moving that money. So the government will know. Bottom line there will me so much 'noise' if the listen to everything they will loose track of legitimate deviant traffic. The only monitor so much of it and then turn off the listening until the system wakes up. Again, if all you actions are legit they will soon go away and leave you alone. The old joke on the net like 10 years ago was to add lines like Death Bomb Kill Destroy, White House, nuclear, waste, President, Give names of current or recent past presidents, Bush, Clinton, Regan, Nixon Ford, etc. Those supposedly activated the echelon system. Also thinking back to a security to a class I had in computer security (now I may date myself just a little) Back in 1988 The instructor mentioned how the NSA monitors ALL traffic from the US to an overseas source, even more so banking traffic. Well one time a Bank had some agents visit them demanding the key to the encryption they used to send something over seas. Well the laugh was on the NSA. According to this instructor, that company said to the NSA all we did us used crypt on the VAX. The NSA agent(s) said thank you and left. Now maybe I am being monitored at this time and will be for some time because of this message. NO big deal to me. I intend no harm, at least until the government tries to control what I do when I do it and how I do it. (I see a day like that coming, I feel it will be of dare I say the word on this list??? Biblical proportions) It is inevitable, in general humans are stupid. Go to the Darwin Awards web page and see for yourself. At times the Darwin principle of the stupid and the weak creatures die off and only the strong genes survive does not always apply to the human race. We keep doing stupid things, and one day we are going to have a massive fight in the world and blow the whole dang thing up. Then again maybe the alien's that ALL governments seem to cover up the existence of will soon get ticked off at us and come and destroy our planet (Star Trek anyone?) go so that the human parasite will not come out and destroy their worlds. (MY planet! my land, no my land, mine, no mine, no mine) I will admit this... I live in a state where we have an electronic device in our car that is used on the tollway that pays your fees for being on the road. Well, that devices has time stamps for when you passed through the booth, and is registered to your car(S) well, if it is 3 miles from one booth to the next that would be 3 minutes at 60MPH So if you make it from one booth to the next in less that 3 minutes you are speeding, but then again you are already because your are supposed to go 15MPH through most booths and about 1 mile from the booth you are supposed to slow down to 40MPH and I think at .5 miles from the booth you are supposed to slow down to 30MPH. I will admit that I often find myself going in excess of 60MPH on the highway. sometimes even over 80 and that is because I am afraid I am going to get hit by the moron(s) doing 90+ For the autobahn drivers or other places where such speeds may be the norm. Our roadways are not really designed for that even more so in the winter with snow and ice. -- Leif On Tue, 2005-12-27 at 12:11 -0800, Kurt Buff wrote: > Rodrigo Barbosa wrote: > > On Mon, Dec 26, 2005 at 10:11:45PM -0600, Leif Ericksen wrote: > > > >>>Really if we have nothing to hide we should not fear them listening to > >>>us. Now if they come in and start forcing a special mark or code word > >>>or something special in order to live or buy or sell anything then it is > >>>time to revolt. > > > > > > Now, that is an interesting view of someone who really is not paying > > attention. > > > > What would you qualify as "something to hide" ? How about my banking > > account data ? How about the trade secrets of my company ? > > Interesting line of argument, but really beside the point. You are > correct that Leif has taken the wrong line of argument, but you yourself > haven't quite got it right. > > Leif speaks as if the government has a right to monitor our thoughts. > Such a stance indicates that we are property of (a|the) government. > > Just the opposite is true. The just government serves at the pleasure of > its citizens, and must not be allowed any more power than what is > strictly necessar
Re: [Full-disclosure] Spy Agency Mined Vast Data Trove
Echelon YAWN... That is old news that is like 10-15 years old and was first announce like 8-10 years ago was it not... Encryption? when it comes time to NSA/CIA/Omega Sector or other unnamed government agencies if they want to decrypt it they can... That is my belief. Really if we have nothing to hide we should not fear them listening to us. Now if they come in and start forcing a special mark or code word or something special in order to live or buy or sell anything then it is time to revolt. Other wise let them hear you talk to your significant other about some hot sexual adventure, if it is not your significant other maybe it is your best friend and you are going to tell them about how you banged away at this hot chick/guy (male or female for guys/gals and those of the alternative life style (Gay, Homosexual what ever you prefer). IF we really want to sue some good encryption that will take time to break we all have to learn and start using some anchient now dead language. Then once everybody is fluent in that we need to change again just to try and stay one step ahead of the spy devices! -- lhe On Mon, 2005-12-26 at 07:47 -0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > > > On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 07:04:15 -0800 Bipin Gautam > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >hello list; > > > > > > >My concern is... (I'm from Nepal) not all ISP in my region go > >through > >the Nepal's Internet exchange point. so even the local traffic > >might > >have routed through USA if our ISP'z backbone providr is in USA. I > >don't have very good idea about ledal stuff but my basic > >assumption is > >BUYING SERVICE FROM A DIFFERENT COUNTRY DOESN'T MEAN WE ARE > >NECESSARILY SUBJECTED TO THEIR LOCAL RULES. (though depends on > >country > >foreign policy) > > > >Have our network traffic been spyed/sniffed too without our > >knowledge? > >Don't we have right of protection in the law to check such thing > if > >any??? > > > >just willing to hear your views on what are the rules to > >check/tackle > >such issues in other foreign countries??? > > > > The gist of the actions by the NSA and the Chimp in Charge should > allow to you ascertain the obvious answer. One, the US government > has no respect for its citizens' privacy so what makes you think it > cares about the privacies of those in other countries. > > One of the problems with the US at this current point in time, is > there is a revolving scenario being spoon fed to the public and > this is being used to justify the actions of the idiots in office. > This is called "The War on Terror". Far too many people are quick > to cower and believe whatever mass media crapaganda is being shown > on television, and while this occurs, those in power jump on the > opportunities to sneak in low blow, sucker punch crimes in hopes > they go unnoticed. It happened with the CIA and their torture > prisons, the Chimp in Charge stepping on civil liberties, you name > it, this administration is doing it. > > So to answer your question, if it passed through any form of > electronic communication, chances are ECHELON got a hold of it. > Don't like it, don't use electronic communications, or use various > types of encryption. Bottom line. > -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- > Note: This signature can be verified at https://www.hushtools.com/verify > Version: Hush 2.4 > > wkYEARECAAYFAkOwEHcACgkQo8cxM8/cskr21wCfaDzK6JhSQ9V8+g+pB++NqyPyFKkA > n1IcgHmdLgiwhc9jCW0CwUPsExWc > =26gs > -END PGP SIGNATURE- > > > > > Concerned about your privacy? Instantly send FREE secure email, no account > required > http://www.hushmail.com/send?l=480 > > Get the best prices on SSL certificates from Hushmail > https://www.hushssl.com?l=485 > > ___ > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ -- Leif Ericksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] Spy Agency Mined Vast Data Trove
I am sorry... The largest controlling BODY is the U.N There are several cases here in the US of soldiers that refused to take orders from U.N Officers or place a UN flag on the (US) uniform. These military folks stated they took an oath to the US NOT the (stupid) UN. So the US is pushed around by the UN... I personal believe that a day will come that maybe there will be some major riots in the US and the UN will step up and tell the worlds police force to control its own people. We as a country may or may not desire to be the worlds police force but since we are a super power we can be forced into it (by the UN). I do know of some US presidents that really spat in the face of the UN for various reasons. DO I personally like the UN... N/C Now this message is part of a thread that talks about Echelon... I have one thing to say about that... Why did somebody wake that beast again. That is like 10-15 years old now... There are better methods that are being used than Echelon. News broke about that system what 8-10 years ago was it not? Since news broke about it then, that means it was old news when it broke.. SO why do we not talk about the reality that UFOs are real and were Sponsored by the US, Canada, the former Soviet Union, maybe China and Japan... It is earthly technology and they are using that to do the post modern data gathering. ;) should I toss in some Echelon key words at this time? Na, I think I will leave it alone. Peace out -- Leif Ericksen On Mon, 2005-12-26 at 16:49 +0100, GroundZero Security wrote: > the usa still controls the internet and they dont give a fuck if we > feel that our privacy is invaded since we are all foreign countries to them > and anything outside the usa should be sniffed as they could be potential > terrorists. > remember only usa is the "free world" lol (in their opinion) > they want total control and noone can do anything against their actions. > > even nato is powerless against usa thats why noone ever says something if they > fuck up. the us. gov knows that exactly. they dont have to execuse themselfs > for things > not even to their own people. if they are forced to give out information they > lie their way out. > manipulation is something the us gov is specialized in. > > with google earth you can even find a nsa echelon base in germany. i wonder > what its doing there. > i bet they use it to sniff our country aswell and our neighboors, since its > not there for the fun of it. > what if my country would start to spy on usa isp's ? that could cause serious > political problems, > but of course for usa everything is ok, as we have seen in the past. > > oh and for your law question, usa doesnt care about international laws. if > you have problems you > will have to ask a us. court and i doubt that will help you much complaining > about some agency > especially when you are from some foreign country. > > > - Original Message - > From: "Bipin Gautam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Monday, December 26, 2005 4:04 PM > Subject: [Full-disclosure] Spy Agency Mined Vast Data Trove > > > > hello list; > > > > story: http://www.securityfocus.com/brief/85 > > [snip]- > > At issue are the broad, sweeping powers the NSA now have to eavesdrop > > on Americans without their knowledge. Commentary from Ars technical > > speculates on the technology behind the massive eavesdropping. Bruce > > Schneier has a long commentary on historical abuses as well as the > > NSA's use of Echelon, a massive initiative that monitors voice, fax, > > and data communications and is used for data mining of perhaps 3 > > billion communications per day. > > [/snip]- > > > > My concern is... (I'm from Nepal) not all ISP in my region go through > > the Nepal's Internet exchange point. so even the local traffic might > > have routed through USA if our ISP'z backbone providr is in USA. I > > don't have very good idea about ledal stuff but my basic assumption is > > BUYING SERVICE FROM A DIFFERENT COUNTRY DOESN'T MEAN WE ARE > > NECESSARILY SUBJECTED TO THEIR LOCAL RULES. (though depends on country > > foreign policy) > > > > Have our network traffic been spyed/sniffed too without our knowledge? > > Don't we have right of protection in the law to check such thing if > > any??? > > > > just willing to hear your views on what are the rules to check/tackle > > such issues in other foreign countries??? > > > > regards, > > -bipint > > > > > > story: http://www.securityfocus.com/brief/85 > > [snip]- > > At issue are the broad, sweeping powers the NSA now hav
[Full-disclosure] Signal to noise ratio XSS issues and heads hitting the ceilings.
As the holidays draw near all sorts of spam grows. I am part of an admin team of Internet facing email servers and we see spam volumes increase as the holidays draw near. As such the crazy volumes of crap on the List servers grows as well. We should just hit delete on the crap and respond to the stuff that is important or funny. Now with the idea that holidays are near... I will wish one and all a Herry Qwanakkamas (My wife and I formed Herry from Merry and Happy and friend gave me Qwanzakkamas, I decided to drop the Z) Do I need to change that to Herry Qwanakkadamanas to account for a missed holiday. For the Atheists, or the Satanists out there pardon me... Chill out.. How can we grow the word to fit your needs Herry Qwannakakkamas -- Leif Ericksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] [Fwd: Re: Global CompuSearch]
I really can not believe that this one is legit I will admit my spelling and grammar are less the desirable unless I take my time and re-read what I am doing. IF this is a cease and desist order it is invalid as far as I am concerned. I am NO lawyer but I found it funny "cease and assist"? Then a little bit further down it is correct say cease and desist. > Global CompuSearch hereby demands that you immediately cease and assist > from making any further defamatory and disparaging statements to anyone > regarding Marcus Lawson and Global CompuSearch; and that you cease and > desist from contacting Mr. Cave about Mr. Lawson, Global CompuSearch or > about Mr. Sanders’ case. If you choose to ignore my client’s demand, > and you continue to spew these false and defamatory statements against > Mr. Lawson and his company, I have been instructed me to immediately > proceed with initiating a lawsuit against you to obtain all appropriate > remedies. I am further informed that you are affiliated with a forensic > organization. If you continue with this conduct, we will have to notify > the organization and potentially join them as a party to the lawsuit. > Global CompuSearch hopes that you will act prudently so that no further > legal action will be necessary. However, Global CompuSearch is prepared > to do what is necessary to protect itself from your unwarranted attacks > and outrageous conduct. > Oh, well I know I screw up my grammar and spelling and what not so this is not all that bad. -- Leif Ericksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
[Full-disclosure] Maybe not a disclosure but request for information.
I work with a bunch of HS20 Blades in a 8677 Chassis and we are using the Qlogics cards (that was a mistake) connected to an IBM FAStT-900. Talking to IBM with regards to my problems (blade and san related versus personal!) I have found that there are known issues with the Qlogics cards. I do not know if this is a Qlogics, fAStT or combo issue, BUT one day you might be able to see your SAN the next day you reboot and you loose the SAN! Even without making any changes to the servers! I was told that this is a fairly common but non-repeatable as such Qlogcis and IBM have given up on finding a solution. Full disclosure elements working with QLogics and an IBM FAStT is a real pain in the rear! IBM wants tools on the servers to better build the qla2300.conf file, but those tools require that you have no firewall installed and port mapper has to be running so I do not do that. If I were to start this project over and if my voice carried any weight in the final choice I would say we are NOT going to use Qlogics because they are way to unreliable. QUESTION: I am trying to find list servers that might be able to answer my questions and since I am feeling lazy (after being unsuccessful with google thus far) I am asking here does anybody know of (a) list server (s) that fit the needs of managing a FASTtT in a Linux environment. IBM was fairly useless here as well. -- Leif Ericksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
