Re: [Full-disclosure] An uncontrolled ***OFFTOPIC*** thread ... America's future under George Bush ... my last post in this thread
Chris Umphress wrote: I suppose I could argue on either side of that fence. In my mind, Abraham was there early, so the Israelites were re-claiming their land. Interesting viewpoint, though. I had to respond to this... Stating that it's because Abraham was there so long ago and thus the modern-day Israelites have a right to it is utter bullshit of the lowest order. I'm part Native American. You don't see me kicking people off of my ancestral land. And the clear difference in this case is that I can actually prove that it was mine before it was yours. Modern day Israelites don't have that luxury and, in fact, if you traced back the family trees, I dare say that a large percentage (99%) would be unable to trace their way to Abraham even if they could go back that far. And you know what? I know that some stupid jackass is going to call me an antisemite because I made the statement that their fictitious claim to the land was wrong. And I really don't care. I have no problem with the concept of Israel. What I have a problem with is some pathetic fuck thinking thing 6,000 years ago, someone gave him the right to not share the land with other people. That those same pathetic fucks thought it was a good idea to displace a group of people who had lived on the land for a LONG time because of what amounts to a political handout. The irony is that many of the people that we now refer to as Palestinians wallow on land that is devoid of resources. One of the biggest issues plaguing that region is resource distribution. The land that became Israel was rich with certain resources that the Palestinian lands have less of. How many Palestinians have died in poverty because of this one issue? Why must the Jews be content to create their own holocaust of neglect in the desert? I happen to think that a Jewish homeland is a good idea. But why do people have to die for it? And the more general cry of Why the hell can't people just learn to get along together rather than being assholes to one another? Look, there's no innocent party to this particular conflict, but some groups of people are getting shafted. Claiming land deeds you can't prove does no one any good. -bkfsec ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
RE: [Full-disclosure] An uncontrolled ***OFFTOPIC*** thread ... America's future under George Bush ... my last post in this thread
Yes, there is always more than one side to every story. And, yes - everyone has a right to *peaceable* nuclear power. *Peaceable* being the key word there ... as for saying Good for the goose, good for the gander - NO; when people are killing innocents they deserve to not have the chance to continue. I'm sorry - has Bush ever said he wanted to wipe Iran off the map? I doubt it. Actually no, I am pretty comfortable with the situation IN the US - I am apparently arguing with those who would rather have more innocent Americans die and have more nuclear-capable terrorists. It has nothing to do with getting the last word - I was going to let it drop, until someone called me weak. A stinging insult indeed! If you cared about more than spreading garbage, you'd take the high-road and take this discussion offlist ... like others have correctly done. No further on-list comments. /TJ ... sorry to have added to this thread even more, I hate feeding trolls. -Original Message- From: Byron Sonne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 5:32 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Full-Disclosure@lists.grok.org.uk Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] An uncontrolled ***OFFTOPIC*** thread ... America's future under George Bush And - about permitting Iran to develop nuclear power because the US is a bully ... WTF? More than one side to the story, homes... everyone has the right to peacable nuclear power. Even if they did develop nukes, it's in their right. If the USA, Russia + satellite states, France, UK, India, Pakistan and Israel are allowed to do it, why not anyone else? Good for the goose, good for the gander. The USA failed to lead by example, and are now reaping the rewards. You are talking about Iran, a nation whose leader is delusional and has voiced support of destroying another nation outright. Susbistute 'USA' for 'Iran' and the sentence sounds like the same crap other people say about the USA. You sound just like the jerks that your troops are allegedly fighting against. Ever consider there's some brown skinned dude in a turban thinking almost the same kind of thoughts as you, except it's about America instead? The USA has made it's bed, and now you're finding it uncomfortable to sleep in? Haha. You may disagree with my position, and that is fine ... but this forum is not the correct place to debate the issue - can we please let this list return to topic now? So as long as you get your last word in, everyone has to shut up? Feh. Weak dude. ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] An uncontrolled ***OFFTOPIC*** thread ... America's future under George Bush ... my last post in this thread
Im sorry I don't usually take sides here but this is all CNN/FOX news bull shit. lets keep the Americanish for the right win american TV. we all know that the USA is a big hype and only some of its citizents belive it. I never saw an inocent american die in any WAR... TJ wrote: Yes, there is always more than one side to every story. And, yes - everyone has a right to *peaceable* nuclear power. *Peaceable* being the key word there ... as for saying Good for the goose, good for the gander - NO; when people are killing innocents they deserve to not have the chance to continue. I'm sorry - has Bush ever said he wanted to wipe Iran off the map? I doubt it. Actually no, I am pretty comfortable with the situation IN the US - I am apparently arguing with those who would rather have more innocent Americans die and have more nuclear-capable terrorists. It has nothing to do with getting the last word - I was going to let it drop, until someone called me weak. A stinging insult indeed! If you cared about more than spreading garbage, you'd take the high-road and take this discussion offlist ... like others have correctly done. No further on-list comments. /TJ ... sorry to have added to this thread even more, I hate feeding trolls. -Original Message- From: Byron Sonne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 5:32 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Full-Disclosure@lists.grok.org.uk Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] An uncontrolled ***OFFTOPIC*** thread ... America's future under George Bush And - about permitting Iran to develop nuclear power because the US is a bully ... WTF? More than one side to the story, homes... everyone has the right to peacable nuclear power. Even if they did develop nukes, it's in their right. If the USA, Russia + satellite states, France, UK, India, Pakistan and Israel are allowed to do it, why not anyone else? Good for the goose, good for the gander. The USA failed to lead by example, and are now reaping the rewards. You are talking about Iran, a nation whose leader is delusional and has voiced support of destroying another nation outright. Susbistute 'USA' for 'Iran' and the sentence sounds like the same crap other people say about the USA. You sound just like the jerks that your troops are allegedly fighting against. Ever consider there's some brown skinned dude in a turban thinking almost the same kind of thoughts as you, except it's about America instead? The USA has made it's bed, and now you're finding it uncomfortable to sleep in? Haha. You may disagree with my position, and that is fine ... but this forum is not the correct place to debate the issue - can we please let this list return to topic now? So as long as you get your last word in, everyone has to shut up? Feh. Weak dude. ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] An uncontrolled ***OFFTOPIC*** thread ... America's future under George Bush ... my last post in this thread
If the US spent 1/10th of the time and money on preventing something like drink driving, it'd be saving tens of thousands of more lives, net. Put it into proprtion. Terrorism is not an issue, but it's foreign policy is.On 12/20/05, TJ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, there is always more than one side to every story.And, yes - everyone has a right to *peaceable* nuclear power.*Peaceable*being the key word there ... as for saying Good for the goose, good for the gander - NO; when people are killing innocents they deserve to not have thechance to continue.I'm sorry - has Bush ever said he wanted to wipe Iran off the map?I doubt it.Actually no, I am pretty comfortable with the situation IN the US - I am apparently arguing with those who would rather have more innocent Americansdie and have more nuclear-capable terrorists.It has nothing to do with getting the last word - I was going to let itdrop, until someone called me weak.A stinging insult indeed! If you cared about more than spreading garbage, you'd take the high-road andtake this discussion offlist ... like others have correctly done.No further on-list comments./TJ ... sorry to have added to this thread even more, I hate feeding trolls. -Original Message-From: Byron Sonne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 5:32 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; Full-Disclosure@lists.grok.org.ukSubject: Re: [Full-disclosure] An uncontrolled ***OFFTOPIC*** thread ... America's future under George Bush And - about permitting Iran to develop nuclear power because the US is a bully ... WTF?More than one side to the story, homes... everyone has the right topeacable nuclear power. Even if they did develop nukes, it's in theirright. If the USA, Russia + satellite states, France, UK, India, Pakistan and Israel are allowed to do it, why not anyone else? Good forthe goose, good for the gander.The USA failed to lead by example, and are now reaping the rewards. You are talking about Iran, a nation whose leader is delusional and has voiced support of destroying another nation outright.Susbistute 'USA' for 'Iran' and the sentence sounds like the same crapother people say about the USA. You sound just like the jerks that your troops are allegedly fighting against. Ever consider there's some brownskinned dude in a turban thinking almost the same kind of thoughts asyou, except it's about America instead?The USA has made it's bed, and now you're finding it uncomfortable to sleep in? Haha. You may disagree with my position, and that is fine ... but this forumis not the correct place to debate the issue - can we please let this list return to topic now? So as long as you get your last word in, everyone has to shut up? Feh.Weak dude.___Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.htmlHosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] An uncontrolled ***OFFTOPIC*** thread ... America's future under George Bush ... my last post in this thread
Amen - sing it brother! America is odd in that is is an active supporter of terrorism (Israel), an active participant in terrorism (Iraq, iran, Cuba, Afghanistan, etc.),, and an exporter of terrorism (by proxy in ~6 Euro countries), yet we fully don't understand why everyone dances for joy when we get dead. America is the King of the Hypocrites, as well as the #1 terrorism state today. A moment's reflection would do us a world of good, were it even possible. But it's not. We are a nation of macho Rambo's, like GI Shmoe over there with his willing to die for freedom crap... We have the ability to make things better for millions of people (not even includding those here at home), yet we are happiest when killing those around us. Go figure? On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 11:45:12 +1100 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Full-Disclosure@lists.grok.org.uk Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] An uncontrolled ***OFFTOPIC*** thread ... America's future under George Bush ... my last post in this thread If the US spent 1/10th of the time and money on preventing something like drink driving, it'd be saving tens of thousands of more lives, net. Put it into proprtion. Terrorism is not an issue, but it's foreign policy is. On 12/20/05, TJ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, there is always more than one side to every story. And, yes - everyone has a right to *peaceable* nuclear power. *Peaceable* being the key word there ... as for saying Good for the goose, good for the gander - NO; when people are killing innocents they deserve to not have the chance to continue. I'm sorry - has Bush ever said he wanted to wipe Iran off the map? I doubt it. Actually no, I am pretty comfortable with the situation IN the US - I am apparently arguing with those who would rather have more innocent Americans die and have more nuclear-capable terrorists. It has nothing to do with getting the last word - I was going to let it drop, until someone called me weak. A stinging insult indeed! If you cared about more than spreading garbage, you'd take the high-road and take this discussion offlist ... like others have correctly done. No further on-list comments. /TJ ... sorry to have added to this thread even more, I hate feeding trolls. -Original Message- From: Byron Sonne [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 5:32 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; Full-Disclosure@lists.grok.org.uk Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] An uncontrolled ***OFFTOPIC*** thread ... America's future under George Bush And - about permitting Iran to develop nuclear power because the US is a bully ... WTF? More than one side to the story, homes... everyone has the right to peacable nuclear power. Even if they did develop nukes, it's in their right. If the USA, Russia + satellite states, France, UK, India, Pakistan and Israel are allowed to do it, why not anyone else? Good for the goose, good for the gander. The USA failed to lead by example, and are now reaping the rewards. You are talking about Iran, a nation whose leader is delusional and has voiced support of destroying another nation outright. Susbistute 'USA' for 'Iran' and the sentence sounds like the same crap other people say about the USA. You sound just like the jerks that your troops are allegedly fighting against. Ever consider there's some brown skinned dude in a turban thinking almost the same kind of thoughts as you, except it's about America instead? The USA has made it's bed, and now you're finding it uncomfortable to sleep in? Haha. You may disagree with my position, and that is fine ... but this forum is not the correct place to debate the issue - can we please let this list return to topic now? So as long as you get your last word in, everyone has to shut up? Feh. Weak dude. ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ -- Yours, J.A. Terranson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xBD4A95BF Just once, can't we have a nice polite discussion about the logistics and planning side of large criminal enterprise? - Steve Thompson ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] An uncontrolled ***OFFTOPIC*** thread ... America's future under George Bush ... my last post in this thread
On 12/19/05, J.A. Terranson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: America is odd in that is is an active supporter of terrorism (Israel), an Come again? Israel is a terrorist state? How in the world did you get your mind bent enough that this even seems right? What are you on? Israel has some interesting physical security devices that they are turning out. Maybe it's because of the number of Palistinian suicide-bombers that have been hitting their cities lately? Maybe it's their fear of their neighboring governments who are constantly expressing their desire to get rid of the Israeli nation? Every fight that I have heard about involving Israel in the last 10-15 years that I have been watching has been started by others. Just a guess, but are you for gun-control also? Against a person's right to defend his own life and freedom? Oh wait... that's what this whole thread is about. Whether or not people should be able to have the guns they need to protect themselves. As long as people can defend themselves, it almost doesn't matter how big the weapon (I see it as a tool, not a weapon) is, but rather the resolve of the people. In the past, the united States has had few external attacks because it was realized that the people were willing and capable of defending themselves. -- Chris Umphress http://daga.dyndns.org/ ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] An uncontrolled ***OFFTOPIC*** thread ... America's future under George Bush ... my last post in this thread
On Mon, 19 Dec 2005, Chris Umphress wrote: On 12/19/05, J.A. Terranson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: America is odd in that is is an active supporter of terrorism (Israel), an Come again? Israel is a terrorist state? How in the world did you get your mind bent enough that this even seems right? repeat it with me: M-E-N-A-C-H-I-M B-E-G-I-N. Isarel was FOUNDED on terrorism, and as with the proverbial tiger, has never felt the need to change it's stripes. Just a guess, but are you for gun-control also? I fail to see how these are even remotely related, but i'll bite anyway: No, I do not believe in gun control (ie confiscation). Against a person's right to defend his own life and freedom? Oh wait... that's what this whole thread is about. Whether or not people should be able to have the guns they need to protect themselves. As long as people can defend themselves, it almost doesn't matter how big the weapon (I see it as a tool, not a weapon) is, but rather the resolve of the people. So, clearly we are on the same side of *this* fence. Now, why are we here? In the past, the united States has had few external attacks because it was realized that the people were willing and capable of defending themselves. And that same confidence has now morphed into a bullying attitude of We're bigger than you, we'll do whatever the hell we damn well please.. Except for thos Axis of Evil areas that can actually defend themselves against an American invasion (vis Kim Jong Il.). If Kim is so god awful, why the hell don't we invade there? Because he'd blow our fucking asses off the landing pad. A nuclear enema for Shrub. And a well deserved one I might add. -- Chris Umphress http://daga.dyndns.org/ -- Yours, J.A. Terranson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xBD4A95BF Just once, can't we have a nice polite discussion about the logistics and planning side of large criminal enterprise? - Steve Thompson ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
Re: [Full-disclosure] An uncontrolled ***OFFTOPIC*** thread ... America's future under George Bush ... my last post in this thread
Maybe because Israel Invaded their country...!!??? and they dont have and army to defend themself other than suicide bombers? and Israel is backup up by? the USA. Chris Umphress wrote: On 12/19/05, J.A. Terranson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: America is odd in that is is an active supporter of terrorism (Israel), an Come again? Israel is a terrorist state? How in the world did you get your mind bent enough that this even seems right? What are you on? Israel has some interesting physical security devices that they are turning out. Maybe it's because of the number of Palistinian suicide-bombers that have been hitting their cities lately? Maybe it's their fear of their neighboring governments who are constantly expressing their desire to get rid of the Israeli nation? Every fight that I have heard about involving Israel in the last 10-15 years that I have been watching has been started by others. Just a guess, but are you for gun-control also? Against a person's right to defend his own life and freedom? Oh wait... that's what this whole thread is about. Whether or not people should be able to have the guns they need to protect themselves. As long as people can defend themselves, it almost doesn't matter how big the weapon (I see it as a tool, not a weapon) is, but rather the resolve of the people. In the past, the united States has had few external attacks because it was realized that the people were willing and capable of defending themselves. -- Chris Umphress http://daga.dyndns.org/ ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/ ___ Full-Disclosure - We believe in it. Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
