RE: [Futurework] Selective breeding?
Arthur, I like it! Harry Henry George School of Social Science of Los Angeles Box 655 Tujunga CA 91042 Tel: 818 352-4141 -- Fax: 818 353-2242 http://haledward.home.comcast.net -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 9:12 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Futurework] Selective breeding? I do believe in community. In social order and social cohesion. And in law and order too. So crimes should be punished. No need to bring in morality. On Bill Moyers' NOW the other night there was a discussion of Evil. When asked to define evil the author suggested that the opposite of good is not evil, but rather the opposite of good is good intentions. Arthur --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.558 / Virus Database: 350 - Release Date: 1/2/2004 ___ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework
RE: [Futurework] Selective breeding?
I believe in a justice system that reflects some degree of equity. Call it morality if you wish. OK with me. -Original Message- From: Ray Evans Harrell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 5, 2004 4:55 PM To: Cordell, Arthur: ECOM; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Futurework] Selective breeding? Morality is the efficiency that stops massive self interest and psychopathic chaos. It is an issue of symmetry. There must be a balance in everything. The problem is in knowing the elements to be balanced. The beginning of that balance is aesthetics. People who are poor perceptually are poorly prepared to deal with it. That is why good perceptual and analytic education in a Democracy is so crucial. If I just do what I can get away with then I can count the odds on lawlessness and do what I wish when away from the police. That includes killing whomever in the woods. Sounds like the morality of the werewolf or the pioneers in Indian country. Even animals are more true than that. REH - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 12:11 PM Subject: RE: [Futurework] Selective breeding? I do believe in community. In social order and social cohesion. And in law and order too. So crimes should be punished. No need to bring in morality. On Bill Moyers' NOW the other night there was a discussion of Evil. When asked to define evil the author suggested that the opposite of good is not evil, but rather the opposite of good is good intentions. arthur -Original Message- From: Ray Evans Harrell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 5, 2004 12:05 PM To: Cordell, Arthur: ECOM; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Futurework] Selective breeding? Good and evil are just words. But if I steal your home or shot a friend what would you call that?If I create a situation in which you are able to prosper, what would you call that? And if I do it without taking away from anyone else or the environment in the process what would you call that? If a man rapes a woman or deliberately kills a child what would you call that? If a man enslaves another man and keeps him in a cage for his entire life, what would you call that? What are the classes of actions that achieve one end that is the opposite of the other in those types of manipulative actions? REH - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 11:24 AM Subject: RE: [Futurework] Selective breeding? I really don't believe in good or evil arthur -Original Message- From: Ray Evans Harrell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 5, 2004 11:18 AM To: Cordell, Arthur: ECOM; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Futurework] Selective breeding? Because there are villains in every culture and often they are the one's who survive.The only moral way out of that dilemma is to admit and struggle for one's ideals. Otherwise righteous ideas are polluted by self-righteousness and decline begins. REH - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 10:06 AM Subject: RE: [Futurework] Selective breeding? How so? What do you mean? -Original Message- From: Ray Evans Harrell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 4, 2004 2:19 PM To: Cordell, Arthur: ECOM; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Futurework] Selective breeding? I don't agree with Chris on his blatent prejudice on this but I don't think your statement is true either. You paint yourself into an unteneable corner. IMHO REH - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 10:59 AM Subject: RE: [Futurework] Selective breeding? The statement that one could escape a pogrom or a planned extermination is just that: A statement. Nothing negative, nothing positive. Neither a good act or a bad act. An act. That's all. arthur -Original Message- From: mcandreb [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2004 5:38 AM To: Keith Hudson; Cordell, Arthur: ECOM Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Futurework] Selective breeding? Victor Frankel said in his book Man's Search For Meaning that the 'best' human beings did not survive the concentration camps because they freely gave their lives so that others might live. Tis a far far better thing I do than I've ever done before.. Brian McAndrews
RE: [Futurework] Selective breeding?
How so? What do you mean? -Original Message- From: Ray Evans Harrell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 4, 2004 2:19 PM To: Cordell, Arthur: ECOM; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Futurework] Selective breeding? I don't agree with Chris on his blatent prejudice on this but I don't think your statement is true either. You paint yourself into an unteneable corner. IMHO REH - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 10:59 AM Subject: RE: [Futurework] Selective breeding? The statement that one could escape a pogrom or a planned extermination is just that: A statement. Nothing negative, nothing positive. Neither a good act or a bad act. An act. That's all. arthur -Original Message- From: mcandreb [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2004 5:38 AM To: Keith Hudson; Cordell, Arthur: ECOM Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Futurework] Selective breeding? Victor Frankel said in his book Man's Search For Meaning that the 'best' human beings did not survive the concentration camps because they freely gave their lives so that others might live. Tis a far far better thing I do than I've ever done before.. Brian McAndrews [emsg.txt] Arfthur, At 19:30 02/01/2004 -0500, you wrote: How about this: Those who were average or with lower acuity to surroundings were eliminated in various pogroms. *If* there was a selective breeding, perhaps it was based on the quickest, smartest most aware were able to move or outwit the killers. Yes, that must have been a factor, too -- in much the same way that the rich of Baghdad took holidays in Syria while the bombing went on during the invasion. Also, because of the bipolar nature of the Jewish law on usury, the rich merchants would have good contacts with the Gentile establishment in the cities. Just as the rich Jews and intelligentsia were able to get out of Germany in the years before WWII, so might the richer merchants in Russia and Poland, etc have been able to tell their contacts to withdraw from the Jewish villages and ghettos when progroms were being rumoured at high level. Keith arthur -Original Message- From: Keith Hudson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 1:30 AM To: Tor Førde Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Futurework] Selective breeding? At 23:18 01/01/2004 +0100, you wrote: I was wondering about the theory of Keith Hudson about selective breeding of jews in Eastern Europe. It's not a theory of mine. It's an observation from history. The aim of selective breeding is to develop a specie who carries some preferred qualities by allowing only those carring these qualities to breed. That's what animal breeders do. In western society today anybody can breed. Or, rather, any woman can breed if she finds a male that she thinks will be a good father and provider. Eugenics got a bad name in the last century because the state or medical authorities decided who should breed. Where only the most intelligent jews allowed to get children? What about the more ordinary jews, Keith? Whoever said that ordinary Jews couldn't breed? I didn't say so. Keith Hilsen Tor Førde email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework Keith Hudson, Bath, England, www.evolutionary-economics.org Keith Hudson, Bath, England, www.evolutionary-economics.org ___ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework ___ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework ___ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework
Re: [Futurework] Selective breeding?
Because there are villains in every culture and often they are the one's who survive.The only moral way out of that dilemma is to admit and struggle for one's ideals. Otherwise righteous ideas are polluted by self-righteousness and decline begins. REH - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 10:06 AM Subject: RE: [Futurework] Selective breeding? How so? What do you mean? -Original Message- From: Ray Evans Harrell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 4, 2004 2:19 PM To: Cordell, Arthur: ECOM; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Futurework] Selective breeding? I don't agree with Chris on his blatent prejudice on this but I don't think your statement is true either. You paint yourself into an unteneable corner. IMHO REH - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 10:59 AM Subject: RE: [Futurework] Selective breeding? The statement that one could escape a pogrom or a planned extermination is just that: A statement. Nothing negative, nothing positive. Neither a good act or a bad act. An act. That's all. arthur -Original Message- From: mcandreb [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2004 5:38 AM To: Keith Hudson; Cordell, Arthur: ECOM Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Futurework] Selective breeding? Victor Frankel said in his book Man's Search For Meaning that the 'best' human beings did not survive the concentration camps because they freely gave their lives so that others might live. Tis a far far better thing I do than I've ever done before.. Brian McAndrews [emsg.txt] Arfthur, At 19:30 02/01/2004 -0500, you wrote: How about this: Those who were average or with lower acuity to surroundings were eliminated in various pogroms. *If* there was a selective breeding, perhaps it was based on the quickest, smartest most aware were able to move or outwit the killers. Yes, that must have been a factor, too -- in much the same way that the rich of Baghdad took holidays in Syria while the bombing went on during the invasion. Also, because of the bipolar nature of the Jewish law on usury, the rich merchants would have good contacts with the Gentile establishment in the cities. Just as the rich Jews and intelligentsia were able to get out of Germany in the years before WWII, so might the richer merchants in Russia and Poland, etc have been able to tell their contacts to withdraw from the Jewish villages and ghettos when progroms were being rumoured at high level. Keith arthur -Original Message- From: Keith Hudson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 1:30 AM To: Tor Førde Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Futurework] Selective breeding? At 23:18 01/01/2004 +0100, you wrote: I was wondering about the theory of Keith Hudson about selective breeding of jews in Eastern Europe. It's not a theory of mine. It's an observation from history. The aim of selective breeding is to develop a specie who carries some preferred qualities by allowing only those carring these qualities to breed. That's what animal breeders do. In western society today anybody can breed. Or, rather, any woman can breed if she finds a male that she thinks will be a good father and provider. Eugenics got a bad name in the last century because the state or medical authorities decided who should breed. Where only the most intelligent jews allowed to get children? What about the more ordinary jews, Keith? Whoever said that ordinary Jews couldn't breed? I didn't say so. Keith Hilsen Tor Førde email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework Keith Hudson, Bath, England, www.evolutionary-economics.org Keith Hudson, Bath, England, www.evolutionary-economics.org ___ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework ___ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework ___ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework
RE: [Futurework] Selective breeding?
I really don't believe in good or evil arthur -Original Message- From: Ray Evans Harrell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 5, 2004 11:18 AM To: Cordell, Arthur: ECOM; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Futurework] Selective breeding? Because there are villains in every culture and often they are the one's who survive.The only moral way out of that dilemma is to admit and struggle for one's ideals. Otherwise righteous ideas are polluted by self-righteousness and decline begins. REH - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 10:06 AM Subject: RE: [Futurework] Selective breeding? How so? What do you mean? -Original Message- From: Ray Evans Harrell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 4, 2004 2:19 PM To: Cordell, Arthur: ECOM; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Futurework] Selective breeding? I don't agree with Chris on his blatent prejudice on this but I don't think your statement is true either. You paint yourself into an unteneable corner. IMHO REH - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 10:59 AM Subject: RE: [Futurework] Selective breeding? The statement that one could escape a pogrom or a planned extermination is just that: A statement. Nothing negative, nothing positive. Neither a good act or a bad act. An act. That's all. arthur -Original Message- From: mcandreb [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2004 5:38 AM To: Keith Hudson; Cordell, Arthur: ECOM Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Futurework] Selective breeding? Victor Frankel said in his book Man's Search For Meaning that the 'best' human beings did not survive the concentration camps because they freely gave their lives so that others might live. Tis a far far better thing I do than I've ever done before.. Brian McAndrews [emsg.txt] Arfthur, At 19:30 02/01/2004 -0500, you wrote: How about this: Those who were average or with lower acuity to surroundings were eliminated in various pogroms. *If* there was a selective breeding, perhaps it was based on the quickest, smartest most aware were able to move or outwit the killers. Yes, that must have been a factor, too -- in much the same way that the rich of Baghdad took holidays in Syria while the bombing went on during the invasion. Also, because of the bipolar nature of the Jewish law on usury, the rich merchants would have good contacts with the Gentile establishment in the cities. Just as the rich Jews and intelligentsia were able to get out of Germany in the years before WWII, so might the richer merchants in Russia and Poland, etc have been able to tell their contacts to withdraw from the Jewish villages and ghettos when progroms were being rumoured at high level. Keith arthur -Original Message- From: Keith Hudson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 1:30 AM To: Tor Førde Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Futurework] Selective breeding? At 23:18 01/01/2004 +0100, you wrote: I was wondering about the theory of Keith Hudson about selective breeding of jews in Eastern Europe. It's not a theory of mine. It's an observation from history. The aim of selective breeding is to develop a specie who carries some preferred qualities by allowing only those carring these qualities to breed. That's what animal breeders do. In western society today anybody can breed. Or, rather, any woman can breed if she finds a male that she thinks will be a good father and provider. Eugenics got a bad name in the last century because the state or medical authorities decided who should breed. Where only the most intelligent jews allowed to get children? What about the more ordinary jews, Keith? Whoever said that ordinary Jews couldn't breed? I didn't say so. Keith Hilsen Tor Førde email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework Keith Hudson, Bath, England, www.evolutionary-economics.org Keith Hudson, Bath, England, www.evolutionary-economics.org ___ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework ___ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework ___ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://fes.uwaterloo.ca
Re: [Futurework] Selective breeding?
Good and evil are just words. But if I steal your home or shot a friend what would you call that?If I create a situation in which you are able to prosper, what would you call that? And if I do it without taking away from anyone else or the environment in the process what would you call that? If a man rapes a woman or deliberately kills a child what would you call that? If a man enslaves another man and keeps him in a cage for his entire life, what would you call that? What are the classes of actions that achieve one end that is the opposite of the other in those types of manipulative actions? REH - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 11:24 AM Subject: RE: [Futurework] Selective breeding? I really don't believe in good or evil arthur -Original Message- From: Ray Evans Harrell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 5, 2004 11:18 AM To: Cordell, Arthur: ECOM; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Futurework] Selective breeding? Because there are villains in every culture and often they are the one's who survive.The only moral way out of that dilemma is to admit and struggle for one's ideals. Otherwise righteous ideas are polluted by self-righteousness and decline begins. REH - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 10:06 AM Subject: RE: [Futurework] Selective breeding? How so? What do you mean? -Original Message- From: Ray Evans Harrell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 4, 2004 2:19 PM To: Cordell, Arthur: ECOM; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Futurework] Selective breeding? I don't agree with Chris on his blatent prejudice on this but I don't think your statement is true either. You paint yourself into an unteneable corner. IMHO REH - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 10:59 AM Subject: RE: [Futurework] Selective breeding? The statement that one could escape a pogrom or a planned extermination is just that: A statement. Nothing negative, nothing positive. Neither a good act or a bad act. An act. That's all. arthur -Original Message- From: mcandreb [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2004 5:38 AM To: Keith Hudson; Cordell, Arthur: ECOM Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Futurework] Selective breeding? Victor Frankel said in his book Man's Search For Meaning that the 'best' human beings did not survive the concentration camps because they freely gave their lives so that others might live. Tis a far far better thing I do than I've ever done before.. Brian McAndrews [emsg.txt] Arfthur, At 19:30 02/01/2004 -0500, you wrote: How about this: Those who were average or with lower acuity to surroundings were eliminated in various pogroms. *If* there was a selective breeding, perhaps it was based on the quickest, smartest most aware were able to move or outwit the killers. Yes, that must have been a factor, too -- in much the same way that the rich of Baghdad took holidays in Syria while the bombing went on during the invasion. Also, because of the bipolar nature of the Jewish law on usury, the rich merchants would have good contacts with the Gentile establishment in the cities. Just as the rich Jews and intelligentsia were able to get out of Germany in the years before WWII, so might the richer merchants in Russia and Poland, etc have been able to tell their contacts to withdraw from the Jewish villages and ghettos when progroms were being rumoured at high level. Keith arthur -Original Message- From: Keith Hudson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 1:30 AM To: Tor Førde Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Futurework] Selective breeding? At 23:18 01/01/2004 +0100, you wrote: I was wondering about the theory of Keith Hudson about selective breeding of jews in Eastern Europe. It's not a theory of mine. It's an observation from history. The aim of selective breeding is to develop a specie who carries some preferred qualities by allowing only those carring these qualities to breed. That's what animal breeders do. In western society today anybody can breed. Or, rather, any woman can breed if she finds a male that she thinks will be a good father and provider. Eugenics got a bad name in the last century because the state or medical authorities decided who should breed. Where only the most intelligent jews allowed to get children? What about the more ordinary jews, Keith? Whoever
RE: [Futurework] Selective breeding?
I do believe in community. In social order and social cohesion. And in law and order too. So crimes should be punished. No need to bring in morality. On Bill Moyers' NOW the other night there was a discussion of Evil. When asked to define evil the author suggested that the opposite of good is not evil, but rather the opposite of good is good intentions. arthur -Original Message- From: Ray Evans Harrell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 5, 2004 12:05 PM To: Cordell, Arthur: ECOM; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Futurework] Selective breeding? Good and evil are just words. But if I steal your home or shot a friend what would you call that?If I create a situation in which you are able to prosper, what would you call that? And if I do it without taking away from anyone else or the environment in the process what would you call that? If a man rapes a woman or deliberately kills a child what would you call that? If a man enslaves another man and keeps him in a cage for his entire life, what would you call that? What are the classes of actions that achieve one end that is the opposite of the other in those types of manipulative actions? REH - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 11:24 AM Subject: RE: [Futurework] Selective breeding? I really don't believe in good or evil arthur -Original Message- From: Ray Evans Harrell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 5, 2004 11:18 AM To: Cordell, Arthur: ECOM; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Futurework] Selective breeding? Because there are villains in every culture and often they are the one's who survive.The only moral way out of that dilemma is to admit and struggle for one's ideals. Otherwise righteous ideas are polluted by self-righteousness and decline begins. REH - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 10:06 AM Subject: RE: [Futurework] Selective breeding? How so? What do you mean? -Original Message- From: Ray Evans Harrell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 4, 2004 2:19 PM To: Cordell, Arthur: ECOM; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Futurework] Selective breeding? I don't agree with Chris on his blatent prejudice on this but I don't think your statement is true either. You paint yourself into an unteneable corner. IMHO REH - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 10:59 AM Subject: RE: [Futurework] Selective breeding? The statement that one could escape a pogrom or a planned extermination is just that: A statement. Nothing negative, nothing positive. Neither a good act or a bad act. An act. That's all. arthur -Original Message- From: mcandreb [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2004 5:38 AM To: Keith Hudson; Cordell, Arthur: ECOM Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Futurework] Selective breeding? Victor Frankel said in his book Man's Search For Meaning that the 'best' human beings did not survive the concentration camps because they freely gave their lives so that others might live. Tis a far far better thing I do than I've ever done before.. Brian McAndrews [emsg.txt] Arfthur, At 19:30 02/01/2004 -0500, you wrote: How about this: Those who were average or with lower acuity to surroundings were eliminated in various pogroms. *If* there was a selective breeding, perhaps it was based on the quickest, smartest most aware were able to move or outwit the killers. Yes, that must have been a factor, too -- in much the same way that the rich of Baghdad took holidays in Syria while the bombing went on during the invasion. Also, because of the bipolar nature of the Jewish law on usury, the rich merchants would have good contacts with the Gentile establishment in the cities. Just as the rich Jews and intelligentsia were able to get out of Germany in the years before WWII, so might the richer merchants in Russia and Poland, etc have been able to tell their contacts to withdraw from the Jewish villages and ghettos when progroms were being rumoured at high level. Keith arthur -Original Message- From: Keith Hudson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 1:30 AM To: Tor Førde Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Futurework] Selective breeding? At 23:18 01/01/2004 +0100, you wrote: I was wondering about the theory of Keith Hudson about selective breeding of jews in Eastern Europe. It's not a theory of mine. It's
Re: [Futurework] Selective breeding?
Morality is the efficiency that stops massive self interest and psychopathic chaos. It is an issue of symmetry. There must be a balance in everything. The problem is in knowing the elements to be balanced. The beginning of that balance is aesthetics. People who are poor perceptually are poorly prepared to deal with it. That is why good perceptual and analytic education in a Democracy is so crucial. If I just do what I can get away with then I can count the odds on lawlessness and do what I wish when away from the police. That includes killing whomever in the woods. Sounds like the morality of the werewolf or the pioneers in Indian country. Even animals are more true than that. REH - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 12:11 PM Subject: RE: [Futurework] Selective breeding? I do believe in community. In social order and social cohesion. And in law and order too. So crimes should be punished. No need to bring in morality. On Bill Moyers' NOW the other night there was a discussion of Evil. When asked to define evil the author suggested that the opposite of good is not evil, but rather the opposite of good is good intentions. arthur -Original Message- From: Ray Evans Harrell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 5, 2004 12:05 PM To: Cordell, Arthur: ECOM; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Futurework] Selective breeding? Good and evil are just words. But if I steal your home or shot a friend what would you call that?If I create a situation in which you are able to prosper, what would you call that? And if I do it without taking away from anyone else or the environment in the process what would you call that? If a man rapes a woman or deliberately kills a child what would you call that? If a man enslaves another man and keeps him in a cage for his entire life, what would you call that? What are the classes of actions that achieve one end that is the opposite of the other in those types of manipulative actions? REH - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 11:24 AM Subject: RE: [Futurework] Selective breeding? I really don't believe in good or evil arthur -Original Message- From: Ray Evans Harrell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 5, 2004 11:18 AM To: Cordell, Arthur: ECOM; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Futurework] Selective breeding? Because there are villains in every culture and often they are the one's who survive.The only moral way out of that dilemma is to admit and struggle for one's ideals. Otherwise righteous ideas are polluted by self-righteousness and decline begins. REH - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 10:06 AM Subject: RE: [Futurework] Selective breeding? How so? What do you mean? -Original Message- From: Ray Evans Harrell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 4, 2004 2:19 PM To: Cordell, Arthur: ECOM; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Futurework] Selective breeding? I don't agree with Chris on his blatent prejudice on this but I don't think your statement is true either. You paint yourself into an unteneable corner. IMHO REH - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 10:59 AM Subject: RE: [Futurework] Selective breeding? The statement that one could escape a pogrom or a planned extermination is just that: A statement. Nothing negative, nothing positive. Neither a good act or a bad act. An act. That's all. arthur -Original Message- From: mcandreb [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2004 5:38 AM To: Keith Hudson; Cordell, Arthur: ECOM Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Futurework] Selective breeding? Victor Frankel said in his book Man's Search For Meaning that the 'best' human beings did not survive the concentration camps because they freely gave their lives so that others might live. Tis a far far better thing I do than I've ever done before.. Brian McAndrews [emsg.txt] Arfthur, At 19:30 02/01/2004 -0500, you wrote: How about this: Those who were average or with lower acuity to surroundings were eliminated in various pogroms. *If* there was a selective breeding, perhaps it was based on the quickest, smartest most aware were able to move or outwit the killers. Yes, that must
RE: [Futurework] Selective breeding?
Do you believe in positive and negative? FWP http://www.geocities.com/machine_psychology/The_Ghost_In_The_Machine On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I really don't believe in good or evil arthur -Original Message- From: Ray Evans Harrell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 5, 2004 11:18 AM To: Cordell, Arthur: ECOM; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Futurework] Selective breeding? Because there are villains in every culture and often they are the one's who survive.The only moral way out of that dilemma is to admit and struggle for one's ideals. Otherwise righteous ideas are polluted by self-righteousness and decline begins. REH - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 05, 2004 10:06 AM Subject: RE: [Futurework] Selective breeding? How so? What do you mean? -Original Message- From: Ray Evans Harrell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 4, 2004 2:19 PM To: Cordell, Arthur: ECOM; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Futurework] Selective breeding? I don't agree with Chris on his blatent prejudice on this but I don't think your statement is true either. You paint yourself into an unteneable corner. IMHO REH - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 10:59 AM Subject: RE: [Futurework] Selective breeding? The statement that one could escape a pogrom or a planned extermination is just that: A statement. Nothing negative, nothing positive. Neither a good act or a bad act. An act. That's all. arthur -Original Message- From: mcandreb [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2004 5:38 AM To: Keith Hudson; Cordell, Arthur: ECOM Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Futurework] Selective breeding? Victor Frankel said in his book Man's Search For Meaning that the 'best' human beings did not survive the concentration camps because they freely gave their lives so that others might live. Tis a far far better thing I do than I've ever done before.. Brian McAndrews [emsg.txt] Arfthur, At 19:30 02/01/2004 -0500, you wrote: How about this: Those who were average or with lower acuity to surroundings were eliminated in various pogroms. *If* there was a selective breeding, perhaps it was based on the quickest, smartest most aware were able to move or outwit the killers. Yes, that must have been a factor, too -- in much the same way that the rich of Baghdad took holidays in Syria while the bombing went on during the invasion. Also, because of the bipolar nature of the Jewish law on usury, the rich merchants would have good contacts with the Gentile establishment in the cities. Just as the rich Jews and intelligentsia were able to get out of Germany in the years before WWII, so might the richer merchants in Russia and Poland, etc have been able to tell their contacts to withdraw from the Jewish villages and ghettos when progroms were being rumoured at high level. Keith arthur -Original Message- From: Keith Hudson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 1:30 AM To: Tor Førde Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Futurework] Selective breeding? At 23:18 01/01/2004 +0100, you wrote: I was wondering about the theory of Keith Hudson about selective breeding of jews in Eastern Europe. It's not a theory of mine. It's an observation from history. The aim of selective breeding is to develop a specie who carries some preferred qualities by allowing only those carring these qualities to breed. That's what animal breeders do. In western society today anybody can breed. Or, rather, any woman can breed if she finds a male that she thinks will be a good father and provider. Eugenics got a bad name in the last century because the state or medical authorities decided who should breed. Where only the most intelligent jews allowed to get children? What about the more ordinary jews, Keith? Whoever said that ordinary Jews couldn't breed? I didn't say so. Keith Hilsen Tor Førde email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework Keith Hudson, Bath, England, www.evolutionary-economics.org Keith Hudson, Bath, England, www.evolutionary-economics.org ___ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http
RE: [Futurework] Selective breeding?
The statement that one could escape a pogrom or a planned extermination is just that: A statement. Nothing negative, nothing positive. Neither a good act or a bad act. An act. That's all. arthur -Original Message- From: mcandreb [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2004 5:38 AM To: Keith Hudson; Cordell, Arthur: ECOM Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Futurework] Selective breeding? Victor Frankel said in his book Man's Search For Meaning that the 'best' human beings did not survive the concentration camps because they freely gave their lives so that others might live. Tis a far far better thing I do than I've ever done before.. Brian McAndrews [emsg.txt] Arfthur, At 19:30 02/01/2004 -0500, you wrote: How about this: Those who were average or with lower acuity to surroundings were eliminated in various pogroms. *If* there was a selective breeding, perhaps it was based on the quickest, smartest most aware were able to move or outwit the killers. Yes, that must have been a factor, too -- in much the same way that the rich of Baghdad took holidays in Syria while the bombing went on during the invasion. Also, because of the bipolar nature of the Jewish law on usury, the rich merchants would have good contacts with the Gentile establishment in the cities. Just as the rich Jews and intelligentsia were able to get out of Germany in the years before WWII, so might the richer merchants in Russia and Poland, etc have been able to tell their contacts to withdraw from the Jewish villages and ghettos when progroms were being rumoured at high level. Keith arthur -Original Message- From: Keith Hudson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 1:30 AM To: Tor Førde Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Futurework] Selective breeding? At 23:18 01/01/2004 +0100, you wrote: I was wondering about the theory of Keith Hudson about selective breeding of jews in Eastern Europe. It's not a theory of mine. It's an observation from history. The aim of selective breeding is to develop a specie who carries some preferred qualities by allowing only those carring these qualities to breed. That's what animal breeders do. In western society today anybody can breed. Or, rather, any woman can breed if she finds a male that she thinks will be a good father and provider. Eugenics got a bad name in the last century because the state or medical authorities decided who should breed. Where only the most intelligent jews allowed to get children? What about the more ordinary jews, Keith? Whoever said that ordinary Jews couldn't breed? I didn't say so. Keith Hilsen Tor Førde email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework Keith Hudson, Bath, England, www.evolutionary-economics.org Keith Hudson, Bath, England, www.evolutionary-economics.org ___ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework ___ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework
RE: [Futurework] Selective breeding?
Perhaps their only mistake was to trust Swiss banks. Ethics indeed!! arthur -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2004 1:08 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Futurework] Selective breeding? Arthur Cordell wrote: How about this: Those who were average or with lower acuity to surroundings were eliminated in various pogroms. *If* there was a selective breeding, perhaps it was based on the quickest, smartest most aware were able to move or outwit the killers. Some of the smartest even collaborated with the killers in order to further their zionist/eugenic goals... Brian McAndrews wrote: Victor Frankel said in his book Man's Search For Meaning that the 'best' human beings did not survive the concentration camps because they freely gave their lives so that others might live. Conclusion: The persecution increased average cleverness but removed the most ethical individuals of the persecuted group. Hmm! Chris If I knew it was possible to save all the [Jewish] children in Germany by taking them to England, and only half of the children by taking them to Eretz Israel, I would choose the second solution[sic!]. --David Ben-Gurion in 1938 SpamWall: Mail to this addy is deleted unread unless it contains the keyword igve. ___ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework ___ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework
Re: [Futurework] Selective breeding?
I don't agree with Chris on his blatent prejudice on this but I don't think your statement is true either. You paint yourself into an unteneable corner. IMHO REH - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 10:59 AM Subject: RE: [Futurework] Selective breeding? The statement that one could escape a pogrom or a planned extermination is just that: A statement. Nothing negative, nothing positive. Neither a good act or a bad act. An act. That's all. arthur -Original Message- From: mcandreb [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2004 5:38 AM To: Keith Hudson; Cordell, Arthur: ECOM Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Futurework] Selective breeding? Victor Frankel said in his book Man's Search For Meaning that the 'best' human beings did not survive the concentration camps because they freely gave their lives so that others might live. Tis a far far better thing I do than I've ever done before.. Brian McAndrews [emsg.txt] Arfthur, At 19:30 02/01/2004 -0500, you wrote: How about this: Those who were average or with lower acuity to surroundings were eliminated in various pogroms. *If* there was a selective breeding, perhaps it was based on the quickest, smartest most aware were able to move or outwit the killers. Yes, that must have been a factor, too -- in much the same way that the rich of Baghdad took holidays in Syria while the bombing went on during the invasion. Also, because of the bipolar nature of the Jewish law on usury, the rich merchants would have good contacts with the Gentile establishment in the cities. Just as the rich Jews and intelligentsia were able to get out of Germany in the years before WWII, so might the richer merchants in Russia and Poland, etc have been able to tell their contacts to withdraw from the Jewish villages and ghettos when progroms were being rumoured at high level. Keith arthur -Original Message- From: Keith Hudson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 1:30 AM To: Tor Førde Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Futurework] Selective breeding? At 23:18 01/01/2004 +0100, you wrote: I was wondering about the theory of Keith Hudson about selective breeding of jews in Eastern Europe. It's not a theory of mine. It's an observation from history. The aim of selective breeding is to develop a specie who carries some preferred qualities by allowing only those carring these qualities to breed. That's what animal breeders do. In western society today anybody can breed. Or, rather, any woman can breed if she finds a male that she thinks will be a good father and provider. Eugenics got a bad name in the last century because the state or medical authorities decided who should breed. Where only the most intelligent jews allowed to get children? What about the more ordinary jews, Keith? Whoever said that ordinary Jews couldn't breed? I didn't say so. Keith Hilsen Tor Førde email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework Keith Hudson, Bath, England, www.evolutionary-economics.org Keith Hudson, Bath, England, www.evolutionary-economics.org ___ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework ___ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework ___ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework
Re: [Futurework] Selective breeding?
Tit for tat. Good game! REH - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 11:07 AM Subject: RE: [Futurework] Selective breeding? Perhaps their only mistake was to trust Swiss banks. Ethics indeed!! arthur -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2004 1:08 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Futurework] Selective breeding? Arthur Cordell wrote: How about this: Those who were average or with lower acuity to surroundings were eliminated in various pogroms. *If* there was a selective breeding, perhaps it was based on the quickest, smartest most aware were able to move or outwit the killers. Some of the smartest even collaborated with the killers in order to further their zionist/eugenic goals... Brian McAndrews wrote: Victor Frankel said in his book Man's Search For Meaning that the 'best' human beings did not survive the concentration camps because they freely gave their lives so that others might live. Conclusion: The persecution increased average cleverness but removed the most ethical individuals of the persecuted group. Hmm! Chris If I knew it was possible to save all the [Jewish] children in Germany by taking them to England, and only half of the children by taking them to Eretz Israel, I would choose the second solution[sic!]. --David Ben-Gurion in 1938 SpamWall: Mail to this addy is deleted unread unless it contains the keyword igve. ___ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework ___ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework ___ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework
Re: [Futurework] Selective breeding?
What about the persecution of Christians in Eastern Europe/Russia under Marxism? FWP On Sun, 4 Jan 2004, Christoph Reuss wrote: REH wrote: So Chris, Christians have claimed great persecution down through the past 2000 years. Do you think that has anything to do with the court system in the West based upon Christian ideals of success? Free market cleverness, competition, etc. Persecution of Christians (in Europe) can not nearly be compared --both in duration and scale-- with persecution of Jews. Also, there were no concentration camps for Christians, so Frankel's point doesn't apply there either. Hence, the analogy you try to draw (re. selection) is not valid. Chris SpamWall: Mail to this addy is deleted unread unless it contains the keyword igve. ___ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework ___ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework
Re: [Futurework] Selective breeding?
Except in the minds of Christians themselves. I wasn't offering a comparison except in their own minds and if they believe it then choosing survival is the same story.Apparently you never had to sit through all of those sermons as I did.Thousands. That is why my singing in synagogue was no culture shock at all. Same song second verse. REH - Original Message - From: Christoph Reuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 1:08 PM Subject: Re: [Futurework] Selective breeding? REH wrote: So Chris, Christians have claimed great persecution down through the past 2000 years. Do you think that has anything to do with the court system in the West based upon Christian ideals of success? Free market cleverness, competition, etc. Persecution of Christians (in Europe) can not nearly be compared --both in duration and scale-- with persecution of Jews. Also, there were no concentration camps for Christians, so Frankel's point doesn't apply there either. Hence, the analogy you try to draw (re. selection) is not valid. Chris SpamWall: Mail to this addy is deleted unread unless it contains the keyword igve. ___ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework ___ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework
Re: [Futurework] Selective breeding?
Eventually we will know whether they were persecuted anymore than any other group or whether they were just told to sit on their hands around the issue of proselytization.To some that is worse than death itself for it ends eternal life.For others it is soul theft and is considered the original sin. REH - Original Message - From: Franklin Wayne Poley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Christoph Reuss [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 6:32 AM Subject: Re: [Futurework] Selective breeding? What about the persecution of Christians in Eastern Europe/Russia under Marxism? FWP On Sun, 4 Jan 2004, Christoph Reuss wrote: REH wrote: So Chris, Christians have claimed great persecution down through the past 2000 years. Do you think that has anything to do with the court system in the West based upon Christian ideals of success? Free market cleverness, competition, etc. Persecution of Christians (in Europe) can not nearly be compared --both in duration and scale-- with persecution of Jews. Also, there were no concentration camps for Christians, so Frankel's point doesn't apply there either. Hence, the analogy you try to draw (re. selection) is not valid. Chris SpamWall: Mail to this addy is deleted unread unless it contains the keyword igve. ___ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework ___ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework ___ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework
Re: [Futurework] Selective breeding?
REH wrote: I don't agree with Chris on his blatent prejudice on this What prejudice ?? I formed a logical conclusion from combining the statements of Arthur and Frankel, nothing else. Chris SpamWall: Mail to this addy is deleted unread unless it contains the keyword igve. ___ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework
RE: [Futurework] Selective breeding?
Victor Frankel said in his book Man's Search For Meaning that the 'best' human beings did not survive the concentration camps because they freely gave their lives so that others might live. Tis a far far better thing I do than I've ever done before.. Brian McAndrews [emsg.txt] Arfthur, At 19:30 02/01/2004 -0500, you wrote: How about this: Those who were average or with lower acuity to surroundings were eliminated in various pogroms. *If* there was a selective breeding, perhaps it was based on the quickest, smartest most aware were able to move or outwit the killers. Yes, that must have been a factor, too -- in much the same way that the rich of Baghdad took holidays in Syria while the bombing went on during the invasion. Also, because of the bipolar nature of the Jewish law on usury, the rich merchants would have good contacts with the Gentile establishment in the cities. Just as the rich Jews and intelligentsia were able to get out of Germany in the years before WWII, so might the richer merchants in Russia and Poland, etc have been able to tell their contacts to withdraw from the Jewish villages and ghettos when progroms were being rumoured at high level. Keith arthur -Original Message- From: Keith Hudson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 1:30 AM To: Tor Førde Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Futurework] Selective breeding? At 23:18 01/01/2004 +0100, you wrote: I was wondering about the theory of Keith Hudson about selective breeding of jews in Eastern Europe. It's not a theory of mine. It's an observation from history. The aim of selective breeding is to develop a specie who carries some preferred qualities by allowing only those carring these qualities to breed. That's what animal breeders do. In western society today anybody can breed. Or, rather, any woman can breed if she finds a male that she thinks will be a good father and provider. Eugenics got a bad name in the last century because the state or medical authorities decided who should breed. Where only the most intelligent jews allowed to get children? What about the more ordinary jews, Keith? Whoever said that ordinary Jews couldn't breed? I didn't say so. Keith Hilsen Tor Førde email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework Keith Hudson, Bath, England, www.evolutionary-economics.org Keith Hudson, Bath, England, www.evolutionary-economics.org ___ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework ___ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework
RE: [Futurework] Selective breeding?
Arthur Cordell wrote: How about this: Those who were average or with lower acuity to surroundings were eliminated in various pogroms. *If* there was a selective breeding, perhaps it was based on the quickest, smartest most aware were able to move or outwit the killers. Some of the smartest even collaborated with the killers in order to further their zionist/eugenic goals... Brian McAndrews wrote: Victor Frankel said in his book Man's Search For Meaning that the 'best' human beings did not survive the concentration camps because they freely gave their lives so that others might live. Conclusion: The persecution increased average cleverness but removed the most ethical individuals of the persecuted group. Hmm! Chris If I knew it was possible to save all the [Jewish] children in Germany by taking them to England, and only half of the children by taking them to Eretz Israel, I would choose the second solution[sic!]. --David Ben-Gurion in 1938 SpamWall: Mail to this addy is deleted unread unless it contains the keyword igve. ___ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework
RE: [Futurework] Selective breeding?
Arfthur, At 19:30 02/01/2004 -0500, you wrote: How about this: Those who were average or with lower acuity to surroundings were eliminated in various pogroms. *If* there was a selective breeding, perhaps it was based on the quickest, smartest most aware were able to move or outwit the killers. Yes, that must have been a factor, too -- in much the same way that the rich of Baghdad took holidays in Syria while the bombing went on during the invasion. Also, because of the bipolar nature of the Jewish law on usury, the rich merchants would have good contacts with the Gentile establishment in the cities. Just as the rich Jews and intelligentsia were able to get out of Germany in the years before WWII, so might the richer merchants in Russia and Poland, etc have been able to tell their contacts to withdraw from the Jewish villages and ghettos when progroms were being rumoured at high level. Keith arthur -Original Message- From: Keith Hudson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, January 02, 2004 1:30 AM To: Tor Førde Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Futurework] Selective breeding? At 23:18 01/01/2004 +0100, you wrote: I was wondering about the theory of Keith Hudson about selective breeding of jews in Eastern Europe. It's not a theory of mine. It's an observation from history. The aim of selective breeding is to develop a specie who carries some preferred qualities by allowing only those carring these qualities to breed. That's what animal breeders do. In western society today anybody can breed. Or, rather, any woman can breed if she finds a male that she thinks will be a good father and provider. Eugenics got a bad name in the last century because the state or medical authorities decided who should breed. Where only the most intelligent jews allowed to get children? What about the more ordinary jews, Keith? Whoever said that ordinary Jews couldn't breed? I didn't say so. Keith Hilsen Tor Førde email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework Keith Hudson, Bath, England, www.evolutionary-economics.org Keith Hudson, Bath, England, www.evolutionary-economics.org ___ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://fes.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework
