Re: FVWM: Is there a way to ignore other windows when placing one?
On Fri, 24 Jun 2016, lee wrote: Lucio Chiappetti writes: Is there a difference between having N desktops and having N pages which matters for practical use? well ... a desk has a name/title, a page has not ... and one uses GoToDesk and GotoPage ... do not think there are other practical differences in the way I use them ... ... or perhaps, one can think of a desk with no page as something of the size of your screen, stacked behind your screen along z. While pages can be thought of extensions off screen along x and y (right/left, top/bottom), could be useful in rare cases one wants to extend one window off screen (one can even scroll fraction of pages if I remember). I have the pager always covered up by some window. It just takes away so much screen space that it's only visible on empty, or almost empty, desks. So you actually see the root window :) Yes, I almost never use applications in full screen (perhaps an acrobat slide show), even the browser keeps to a sort of squarish shape leaving free an area on the right where the pager is. My screen is 1920x1080 and the browser is some sort of 1600x1024. So I usually don't see the root window or a pager window but the windows I'm actually using. What if you basically never saw the pager? Would you get confused? I guess so, but I keep the pager Sticky, StaysOnTop, so other windows never obscure it, I have such a family of widgets in the top right corner of my screen. From top I have: - a couple of buttons to call on and off a taskbar (see below) - calendar date and xdaliclock - buttons to change desk to 1, 2x1 1x2 and 2x2 pages - status indicator of main hosts on my LAN - button to call pager on/off - button to call procmeter on/off - pager - procmeter usually the pager obscures the procmeter button and the top of the procmeter (temperature, processes, load, paging) so I just see things like mail in inbox, ethernet traffic, CPU % below the pager. But I can withdraw them (do it rarely, sometimes I iconify a number of terminals and edits, and the icons (anchored bottom right) hide under the procmeter or pager). By habit I sometimes/often iconify stuff, but almost never shade stuff (shade is however a NICE fvwm feature, a shaded window is reduced to its title bar) In the rare case I forgot what is where (e.g. for the xclipboard, or because the window is hidden), I use MB2 bound to FvwmWinList, which lists all my windows by title, so I can switch there easily, That's like a last resort for me. The list can get so long that it's not easy to find what I'm looking for in it. My list is not terribly long. Usually I know where is what by habit, excepts for things like xclipboard, of which there can be a single instance. That's the thing I usually look via FvwmWinList. There can be windows hidden behind other (like a small popup from an alarm). For these I use a taskbar I can call on demand, which shows the windows in the current desktop by title. -- Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Bassini 15 - I-20133 Milano (Italy) For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html Do not like Firefox >=29 ? Get Pale Moon ! http://www.palemoon.org
Re: FVWM: Is there a way to ignore other windows when placing one?
On 24 June 2016 at 00:10, lee wrote: > EWMH seems to be supposed to make it so that areas of the screen are > /not/ covered by windows, which is something I don't want. I'm not sure No. It's a specification which defines the behaviours of windows. One of those aspects is BaseStruts which gives hints to the window manager about where the boundaries of a screen happen to be, and as such that is often interpreted to reserve those areas from having windows placed on them. > I'm using MinOverlapPercentPlacement, after trying MinOverlapPlacement. > Both seem to give pretty much the same results. That's because it won't do what you want without proposed changes from me. I'll get round to it at some point. -- Thomas Adam
Re: FVWM: Is there a way to ignore other windows when placing one?
Lucio Chiappetti writes: > On Mon, 20 Jun 2016, lee wrote: > >> Interesting :) It seems very confusing, though. How do you remember >> what is where? I have a plain setup with just 6x6 pages and many times >> have to flip between them to find the particular page I want to go to. > > Well, after a long time working with 2 desktops each 2x2 pages, a > while ago I junked the idea of separate desktops and pages. Now I have > only 7 > desktops each of 1 page (well, I have buttons to switch them to 2x1 > 1x2 and 2x2 but I'd never used them). Is there a difference between having N desktops and having N pages which matters for practical use? > I have the pager almost invariably exposed, and know which desk I am > in because it is highlighted in the pager in a different colour. I have the pager always covered up by some window. It just takes away so much screen space that it's only visible on empty, or almost empty, desks. > Three of the desks are named Mail Web and Net, the other are ABCD. I > know in which desk I am also by a label in the bottom right corner, > and by the background colour of the root window. So you actually see the root window :) I have my windows mostly tiled, with some exceptions, either two side by side, or four, as in 2x2. Sometimes I use (1)+(2+2). So I don't need to manage the windows and let fvwm do it instead. Fvwm even does a great job with tiling, IMO better than a tiling WM. That's because tiling WMs insist too much on tiling. With fvwm, I have all the advantages of both tiling and floating window managers at the same time. So I usually don't see the root window or a pager window but the windows I'm actually using. > Although I have root menu entries and keyboard accelerators to switch > desktops, I almost invariably do it clicking on the pager, > > To know which application is in which desk, I usually rely on habits > (mail is in Mail, browser is in Web, virtual machines if any are in > Net etc.) and on the miniicons in the pager, Hm. That makes me think that my trouble with remembering is something you don't really have because you use the pager so much, which shows you where you are and how to get to where you want to go. What if you basically never saw the pager? Would you get confused? > In the rare case I forgot what is where (e.g. for the xclipboard, or > because the window is hidden), I use MB2 bound to FvwmWinList, which > lists all my windows by title, so I can switch there easily, That's like a last resort for me. The list can get so long that it's not easy to find what I'm looking for in it. > I do use a lot the "sticky" mode of the window menu, to move a window > across desktops (I make it sticky so it appears on all, switch to the > final desktop, and unstick it), however I have also functions in the > window menu to move the window to a specific desktop and I use them > sometimes. I simply move them with the mouse when I need to. But I guess that might no be so easy when using desks /and/ pages, unless each desk is only one page. > You can get a flavour of the old and new approaches (and the configs) in > http://sax.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/WWW/Opinions/window.html Thanky, I'll take a look at it when I can: My internet is out atm. We're having an unusually heavy thunderstorm, and I guess it must have destroyed (some of) the DSL equipment they very recently deployed around here. I'm not surprised it didn't even survive the first thunderstorm, considering my experiences with this ISP. A lot of the neighbours will probably be looking for new routers tomorrow because they bought the crap they were recommended by the ISP, which is a model known to be overly sensitive to all thunderstorms (and generally sucks anyway). I'll have see if the industrial quality I got held up better ... I'd be quite disappointed if it didn't. -- After using i3 for a while, I totally realized that it is the job of the window manger to mange the windows, literally. It is, by all means, /not/ the job of the user. Once you realized this, you can see the irony of calling an operating system "Windows", and you even have to say they did a good job with that.
Re: FVWM: Is there a way to ignore other windows when placing one?
Thomas Adam writes: > On 22 Jun 2016 1:24 a.m., "lee" wrote: >> >> Thomas Adam writes: >> >> > On 10 October 2015 at 11:53, lee wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> >> >> the subject pretty much says it: >> >> >> >> Can I somehow make it so that fvwm ignores particular windows when >> >> figuring out where to place a new one? >> > >> > Adding a style to ignore windows from placements is the way to go. >> > I'll do this later on. Would be useful with MinoverlapPlacement, for >> > instance. >> >> Oh, that would be awesome! >> >> How do you think about the idea of possibly giving each window a >> stacking priority? It might allow for a more fine-grained control >> across all windows than a style could provide. > > EWMH defines this, and there's Layers. Which means? EWMH seems to be supposed to make it so that areas of the screen are /not/ covered by windows, which is something I don't want. I'm not sure what layers do other than that they somehow seem to help keeping windows on top. How could they be used to modify the window placement in such a way that a particular window will be covered by others rather than get in the way when another window is placed? I'm using MinOverlapPercentPlacement, after trying MinOverlapPlacement. Both seem to give pretty much the same results. -- After using i3 for a while, I totally realized that it is the job of the window manger to mange the windows, literally. It is, by all means, /not/ the job of the user. Once you realized this, you can see the irony of calling an operating system "Windows", and you even have to say they did a good job with that.
Re: FVWM: Is there a way to ignore other windows when placing one?
On 22 Jun 2016 1:24 a.m., "lee" wrote: > > Thomas Adam writes: > > > On 10 October 2015 at 11:53, lee wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> the subject pretty much says it: > >> > >> Can I somehow make it so that fvwm ignores particular windows when > >> figuring out where to place a new one? > > > > Adding a style to ignore windows from placements is the way to go. > > I'll do this later on. Would be useful with MinoverlapPlacement, for > > instance. > > Oh, that would be awesome! > > How do you think about the idea of possibly giving each window a > stacking priority? It might allow for a more fine-grained control > across all windows than a style could provide. EWMH defines this, and there's Layers. Thomas Adam
Re: FVWM: Is there a way to ignore other windows when placing one?
Thomas Adam writes: > On 10 October 2015 at 11:53, lee wrote: >> Hi, >> >> the subject pretty much says it: >> >> Can I somehow make it so that fvwm ignores particular windows when >> figuring out where to place a new one? > > Adding a style to ignore windows from placements is the way to go. > I'll do this later on. Would be useful with MinoverlapPlacement, for > instance. Oh, that would be awesome! How do you think about the idea of possibly giving each window a stacking priority? It might allow for a more fine-grained control across all windows than a style could provide. -- After using i3 for a while, I totally realized that it is the job of the window manger to mange the windows, literally. It is, by all means, /not/ the job of the user. Once you realized this, you can see the irony of calling an operating system "Windows", and you even have to say they did a good job with that.
Re: FVWM: Is there a way to ignore other windows when placing one?
On 10 October 2015 at 11:53, lee wrote: > Hi, > > the subject pretty much says it: > > Can I somehow make it so that fvwm ignores particular windows when > figuring out where to place a new one? Adding a style to ignore windows from placements is the way to go. I'll do this later on. Would be useful with MinoverlapPlacement, for instance. -- Thomas Adam
Re: FVWM: Is there a way to ignore other windows when placing one?
On Mon, 20 Jun 2016, lee wrote: Interesting :) It seems very confusing, though. How do you remember what is where? I have a plain setup with just 6x6 pages and many times have to flip between them to find the particular page I want to go to. Well, after a long time working with 2 desktops each 2x2 pages, a while ago I junked the idea of separate desktops and pages. Now I have only 7 desktops each of 1 page (well, I have buttons to switch them to 2x1 1x2 and 2x2 but I'd never used them). I have the pager almost invariably exposed, and know which desk I am in because it is highlighted in the pager in a different colour. Three of the desks are named Mail Web and Net, the other are ABCD. I know in which desk I am also by a label in the bottom right corner, and by the background colour of the root window. Although I have root menu entries and keyboard accelerators to switch desktops, I almost invariably do it clicking on the pager, To know which application is in which desk, I usually rely on habits (mail is in Mail, browser is in Web, virtual machines if any are in Net etc.) and on the miniicons in the pager, In the rare case I forgot what is where (e.g. for the xclipboard, or because the window is hidden), I use MB2 bound to FvwmWinList, which lists all my windows by title, so I can switch there easily, I do use a lot the "sticky" mode of the window menu, to move a window across desktops (I make it sticky so it appears on all, switch to the final desktop, and unstick it), however I have also functions in the window menu to move the window to a specific desktop and I use them sometimes. You can get a flavour of the old and new approaches (and the configs) in http://sax.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/WWW/Opinions/window.html -- Lucio Chiappetti - INAF/IASF - via Bassini 15 - I-20133 Milano (Italy) For more info : http://www.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/personal.html Do not like Firefox >=29 ? Get Pale Moon ! http://www.palemoon.org
Re: FVWM: Is there a way to ignore other windows when placing one?
Michael Großer writes: > lee wrote: >> Michael Großer writes: >> >>> Michael Großer wrote: Dan Espen wrote: > lee writes: > >> Hi, >> >> the subject pretty much says it: >> >> Can I somehow make it so that fvwm ignores particular windows when >> figuring out where to place a new one? > > Not that I know of. > > What are you trying to do? Without awaiting the answer about what is tried to do: If no official way helps, there is always a dirty but "creative" approach. - Minimize the particular windows that you want to ignore - Hide their icons - Place your new window - Unhide the hidden icons - Reopen the minimized windows The process would perhaps have an optical effect that is not so good looking, but the "creative" approach could solve your problem if no other expert delivers a better solution :-) >>> >>> Another idea: >>> >>> - Move the particular windows to a desktop that solely exists for that >>> purpose >>> - Place your new window >>> - Move the cleared away windows back to their original place >> >> Thanks, these are good ideas :) >> >> I haven't figured out how to use multiple desks, though. I tried that >> once and apparently got multiple desks just by naming some, but no way >> to switch between them. > > In addition to what Dan Espen and Lucio Chiappetti wrote, I could > dig out an old text from me where I described my 7-dimensional approach > of working (how I work until today): > https://www.mail-archive.com/fvwm@fvwm.org/msg02282.html Interesting :) It seems very confusing, though. How do you remember what is where? I have a plain setup with just 6x6 pages and many times have to flip between them to find the particular page I want to go to. I would have to remember what is currently on which page, on which page I currently am and how to get to the page I want to go to. I don't always remember that. > Then, there is another nice tool apart from FVWM, with wich you can > play around. Try these commands: > > # wmctrl -s 0 > # xterm -title sun > # wmctrl -s 4 > # wmctrl -R sun > # wmctrl -r sun -N moon > > Wmctrl is funny, but GotoDesk and GotoDeskAndPage are better, because they > distinguish between viewports (pages) and desks. Well, I have switching pages on Alt+Cursor (or AltGr, depending on what keyboard I currently use). I can also move mouse pointer over the edge to switch pages. But desks? Perhaps I could put them on Alt+(some key on the numpad), or make use of the ScrollLock key. Hm. It might be worth a try as it could be easier to remember on what desk something is when each has like 2x2 pages only. >> What I'm trying to do is achieving more reasonable window placement. I >> found that one small window can make it so that a larger window is not >> placed the way I would consider reasonable. I found that out by >> manually moving the small window around to see what placement I would >> get and concluded that if fvwm would ignore the small window when it >> figures out the placement of the larger one, the larger window would be >> placed well. So I wondered if I could have fvwm ignore the small >> window. >> >> Now you suggest to move the small window out of the way automatically >> rather than manually --- something I haven't thought of :) > > Can you describe in more detail, which kind of small window is interfering > with what kind of larger window? What is your use case? If there is no > technical approach to solve your wish generally, perhaps another creative > idea could arise to solve your special use cases. It's the pager window getting in the way of the placement of others windows. The pager is at the right bottom of the screen and stick, usually covered by other windows which I actually use. When I start seamonkey, seamonkey opens two windows, each half size of the display. I do that on an otherwise empty page, except for the pager, and fvwm places one window at the left of the display and the other in the middle so the the pager window is not covered up. I want each window of seamonkey placed at ether the left or the right so that they are side by side and don't overlap each other but one of them overlaps the pager window. The placement does work fine when there is no pager window. Basically, for all windows, fvwm should ignore the pager window when figuring out where to place a window. > One creative idea could be that you place special windows by yourself > like that: > # xterm -geometry 100x20+0+0 -e "echo \"I'm always top left\";bash" > # xterm -geometry 100x20 -e "echo \"I'm 100x20 and pick my own place\";bash" > > Some Linux/Unix programs take arguments like "-geometry", and if your > small and large windows are software like xterm, nedit or the like, > your issues were quickly solved just by giving them "-geometry" arguments > to automatically place them in harmony with each other. Seamonkey remembers its
Re: FVWM: Is there a way to ignore other windows when placing one?
Dan Espen writes: > elliot s writes: > >> If fvwm can (be made to) optionally ignore lower layers during >> auto-placement, that would work. > > Long ago, Fvwm got so many options that I'm unable to keep track. > > MinOverlapPlacementPenalties has a series of arguments including "below" > that may help. How would I give the pager window the EWMHPlacementUseWorkingArea style? -- After using i3 for a while, I totally realized that it is the job of the window manger to mange the windows, literally. It is, by all means, /not/ the job of the user. Once you realized this, you can see the irony of calling an operating system "Windows", and you even have to say they did a good job with that.
Re: FVWM: Is there a way to ignore other windows when placing one?
Lucio Chiappetti writes: > On Sat, 17 Oct 2015, lee wrote: > >> I haven't figured out how to use multiple desks, though. I tried >> that once and apparently got multiple desks just by naming some, but >> no way to switch between them. > > As other said, people usually use the pager to move among multiple > desks (or multiple pages of one desk, or multiple pages of multiple > desks), I use the pager only to display an overview so I can see on which page I am if I need to. To switch pages, I move the mouse over the edge of the screen, or, most of the time, use key bindings. > but one can implement other ways ... menus in the root menu, > buttons in a bar or widget, keyboard accelerators, menus in the window > menu (to move a window to occupy a given desk or page). I have > implemented most of those in my .fvwmrc although I do not use all of > them with the same frequency (see > http://sax.iasf-milano.inaf.it/~lucio/WWW/Opinions/window.html for > screenshots and links to examples) That page doesn't seem to exist anymore.
Re: FVWM: Is there a way to ignore other windows when placing one?
Dan Espen writes: > lee writes: > >> Michael Großer writes: >> >>> Michael Großer wrote: Dan Espen wrote: > lee writes: > >> Hi, >> >> the subject pretty much says it: >> >> Can I somehow make it so that fvwm ignores particular windows when >> figuring out where to place a new one? > > Not that I know of. > > What are you trying to do? Without awaiting the answer about what is tried to do: If no official way helps, there is always a dirty but "creative" approach. - Minimize the particular windows that you want to ignore - Hide their icons - Place your new window - Unhide the hidden icons - Reopen the minimized windows The process would perhaps have an optical effect that is not so good looking, but the "creative" approach could solve your problem if no other expert delivers a better solution :-) >>> >>> Another idea: >>> >>> - Move the particular windows to a desktop that solely exists for that >>> purpose >>> - Place your new window >>> - Move the cleared away windows back to their original place >> >> Thanks, these are good ideas :) >> >> I haven't figured out how to use multiple desks, though. I tried that >> once and apparently got multiple desks just by naming some, but no way >> to switch between them. > > Most users use FvwmPager to switch desks. I only got the name of a desk displayed in the pager --- it's actually still there. How do you switch between them with the pager?
