Re: Making choices

2002-12-13 Thread Obi-Wan 
On 12/13/02 5:57 AM, "Kochkodin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Spew into the
Cybertrough:

>   I called Mac Zone last night and told them that they lost a $2500+ sale
> due to this issue.  I spoke with the night shift supervisor who said he was
> unaware of the situation and promisd to pass the info on to the day shift
> corporate honchos...I also told them that I would do my best to dissuade any
> and all purchases now and in the future by the members of the Penn State Mac
> Users group.   I disagree profoundly with Charles' religious leanings but it's
>just like tv...BYPASS it if you don't like it..

I agree with you, but I have something to say.  Everyone is saying that it
is free speech basically.  It is Dan's right to post what he wants to on his
site.  Essentially that is true...but not without consequences.  Mine may be
an unpopular opinion, but I must say that it is also Mr. Bauer's right to
complain about it if he sees fit.  He is allowed to complain about a
religious article posted to Mac-Content site (or at least bring it to the
attention of advertisers so that they are aware of it).  He probably didn't
join Lem to talk about religion.  He probably joined to talk about Macs.
Why is everyone slamming him for complaining?  It's his free speech right
just as it is Dan's to post such an article.  (disclaimer:  I don't know Mr.
Bauer, and he may be a total jerk in real life.  I have only heard of him
through this discussion).

Dan knows that I am not a religious person and we get along fine, but he
also know that I support LEM 100%.  This article bothered me as well.  Not
to the point where I would contact advertisers, but it did bother me, and I
am a Nanny on many LEM lists.  It made me wonder if I should spend anymore
time here with LEM.  It made me wonder if I want my name attached to a Mac
site that promotes religious rants by it's writers.  I think it is important
for you all to consider (whether you like it or not) that about 20% of this
population at LEM (as in US Society) is not only *not* Christian, but not
religious at all.  We have rights as well.  Sometimes people who are
devoutly religious stomp all over other people's toes without even thinking
that they are doing anything wrong or offending.  I suggest that everyone
think about it.  I think about how my opinions and statements will affect a
religious person before I make them, and you should do the same.

I have said my peace.  I will allow anyone else to say theirs, but I declare
this thread dead at 7p.m. PST today Friday 12/13.  Please drop it by then.
Thanks.

-- G-Books Nanny
==
Kyle H. Hansen
Apple Certified Technician
Apple Solution Expert
Macintosh Server Administrator
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
==
Jesus saves...but Gretzky grabs the rebound and backhands for a goal


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Re: Making choices

2002-12-13 Thread Kochkodin 
I called Mac Zone last night and told them that they lost a $2500+ sale
due to this issue.  I spoke with the night shift supervisor who said he was
unaware of the situation and promisd to pass the info on to the day shift
corporate honchos...I also told them that I would do my best to dissuade any
and all purchases now and in the future by the members of the Penn State Mac
Users group.  Will contact  Mac Mall later today...  I don' t have DSL
available here but I can and will change my local/long distance and wireless
plans (2 expire on 12/24) from Verizon to ATT.
I disagree profoundly with Charles' religious leanings but it's just
like tv...BYPASS it if you don't like it..  His beliefs in no way compromise
his mac expertise
Hope this helps,
Mike K

Dan Knight wrote:

> I'm sure you're all aware of the campaign by Rick Bauer to destroy Low
> End Mac by telling our advertisers what a terrible site we are for
> allowing our writers to share some opinions Mr. Bauer disagreed with.


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Re: Making choices

2002-12-12 Thread thecrow 
I can't believe the actions of some. Let em go their way. I'm with you
100%, Love and above all, RESPECT!

On Wed, 11 Dec 2002 23:01:09 -0500, "Dan Knight" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
said:
> I'm sure you're all aware of the campaign by Rick Bauer to destroy Low 
> End Mac by telling our advertisers what a terrible site we are for 
> allowing our writers to share some opinions Mr. Bauer disagreed with.
> 
> 
> 
> The fruits of his campaign: Other World Computing and Crucial Memory were 
> among many sites receiving emails from Mr. Bauer, Russ Arcuri, and 
> possibly others. Both sites contacted us, learned that we were moving 
> such content elsewhere, and continue to support Low End Mac with ads 
> and/or affiliate fees.
> 
> Mac Zone, Mac Mall, and Verizon DSL have removed us from their affiliate 
> programs without ever contacting us (or if they did, their emails either 
> didn't survive our spam filtering or were not sent as plain text email). 
> I removed all links to Mac Zone about a week ago and all links to Mac 
> Mall tonight.
> 
> I don't have details of our dealings with Mac Zone, but my records show 
> that over the past year we have generated 16,000 visits, 100 purchases, 
> and nearly $60,000 in sales volume. I am disappointed that they would 
> give this up without saying a thing to us.
> 
> I recommend that if you value Low End Mac, you take your business to 
> dealers who support our site -- OWC, Crucial Memory, Small Dog 
> Electronics, PowerMax, Club Mac, and MacResQ among them -- and not 
> support businesses such as Mac Mall, Mac Zone, and Verizon DSL that have 
> pulled their support from Low End Mac.
> 
> If you do choose to boycott any of these businesses, you might want to 
> tell them why. What goes around comes around.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Dan Knight, president, Cobweb Publishing, Inc.
>   
>   
>    
> 
> Life is too short to use anything but a Mac. -- Roger Ebert
> 
> 
> -- 
> G-Books is sponsored by  and...
> 
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> 
>   Support Low End Mac 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
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> ---
> 
> 
> 

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Re: Making choices

2002-12-12 Thread Jon Glass 
on 12/12/02 8:13 AM, Hal at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Fortunately, I already do most of my online tech shopping with OWC,
> Small Dog and MacResQ. I applaud them for sticking with LEM. I've been
> a Mac user since 1986 and LEM is an invaluable resource, not to mention
> just plain good reading.

You know what's funny is that Don at Small Dog has a soapbox (or had,
actually) in his weekly deal newsletter he sent out. He is quite
diametrically opposed to me, but I enjoyed reading his rantings and ravings,
and such. I never considered it a reason to not shop at Small Dog. Some of
his thoughts are definitely not mainstream, and he is proud of that, and
willing to be flamed, and he mixes it with his business and advertising. I
wonder if this man will boycott him?
-- 
-Jon Glass
Krakow, Poland





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Re: Making choices

2002-12-12 Thread dreemkill 
i wouldnt buy from those mentioned anyway - i get a macmall mailer once 
in awhile, and their prices are insane, from what i remember. Verizon 
DSL isnt available...so thats no worry either. but i'll keep that in 
mind when shopping around. powermax seemed like a good business among 
them.

thanks for the "heads up" ill definitely keep it in mind.

-J

On Wednesday, December 11, 2002, at 11:01  PM, Dan Knight wrote:

> I'm sure you're all aware of the campaign by Rick Bauer to destroy Low
> End Mac by telling our advertisers what a terrible site we are for
> allowing our writers to share some opinions Mr. Bauer disagreed with.
>
> 
>
> The fruits of his campaign: Other World Computing and Crucial Memory 
> were
> among many sites receiving emails from Mr. Bauer, Russ Arcuri, and
> possibly others. Both sites contacted us, learned that we were moving
> such content elsewhere, and continue to support Low End Mac with ads
> and/or affiliate fees.
> .


-- 
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 -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks  |  & CDRWs on Sale!  |

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Re: Making choices

2002-12-11 Thread Hal 
Dan,

As a liberal, I can tell you that this guy is clueless to the concept 
of free speech. the fact that people have the right to express their 
opinions means that you will necessarily be offended by something that 
you hear, see or read. The notion that intelligent people can disagree 
and still be respectful and civil is central to the Internet's success 
as a form of communication, and our society in general.

I'm a longtime reader of LEM and plan to adjust my purchasing behavior 
to reflect what I see as a grave injustice. Severing business 
relationships without notice, because of one email complaint, without 
reviewing and discussing the problems with the target of the complaint 
is just plain wrong. I hadn't been following this story, so thanks for 
bringing it to the lists and to my attention.

Fortunately, I already do most of my online tech shopping with OWC, 
Small Dog and MacResQ. I applaud them for sticking with LEM. I've been 
a Mac user since 1986 and LEM is an invaluable resource, not to mention 
just plain good reading.

I live right down the street from MacZone/Creative Computers' Santa 
Monica store, and used to shop there on occasion. Until today, that is. 
Now, if only someone other than Verizon offered decent DSL service 
here...

Dan, keep up the good work. Keep posting great content. I may not agree 
with all of it, but I love reading  it.

best,
-Hal

On Wednesday, December 11, 2002, at 08:01 PM, Dan Knight wrote:

> I'm sure you're all aware of the campaign by Rick Bauer to destroy Low
> End Mac by telling our advertisers what a terrible site we are for
> allowing our writers to share some opinions Mr. Bauer disagreed with.
>
> 
>
> The fruits of his campaign: Other World Computing and Crucial Memory 
> were
> among many sites receiving emails from Mr. Bauer, Russ Arcuri, and
> possibly others. Both sites contacted us, learned that we were moving
> such content elsewhere, and continue to support Low End Mac with ads
> and/or affiliate fees.
>
> Mac Zone, Mac Mall, and Verizon DSL have removed us from their 
> affiliate
> programs without ever contacting us (or if they did, their emails 
> either
> didn't survive our spam filtering or were not sent as plain text 
> email).
> I removed all links to Mac Zone about a week ago and all links to Mac
> Mall tonight.
>
> I don't have details of our dealings with Mac Zone, but my records show
> that over the past year we have generated 16,000 visits, 100 purchases,
> and nearly $60,000 in sales volume. I am disappointed that they would
> give this up without saying a thing to us.
>
> I recommend that if you value Low End Mac, you take your business to
> dealers who support our site -- OWC, Crucial Memory, Small Dog
> Electronics, PowerMax, Club Mac, and MacResQ among them -- and not
> support businesses such as Mac Mall, Mac Zone, and Verizon DSL that 
> have
> pulled their support from Low End Mac.
>
> If you do choose to boycott any of these businesses, you might want to
> tell them why. What goes around comes around.
>


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Re: Making choices

2002-12-11 Thread discoveryarts 
on 12/12/02 12:22 AM, Ian Haddock at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Isn't this slander?

Twenty years ago  it wouldnt have been. =)




So in case this does in fact turn into a legal situation, it may best for
Dan to receive our replies to the situation to his personal/private listmom
address.  ...if/when you do go on list on this topic   please be mindful of
your words .


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Re: Making choices

2002-12-11 Thread Ian Haddock 
I just wrote a page of anger filled email. Then I deleted it. I can't  
stand seeing this kind of childishness being thrown by 'interest  
groups' at people just saying what they think. Information and ideas  
are what the internet IS. What Dan does is his own damn business!  You  
don't like it, don't read the web page. It makes me so very sad to see  
this. My only positive comments to this are,

Isn't this slander? Don't Rick's actions make him liable for the income  
lost? Do you have any legal options?

...and if all else fails:

Using people search, here are seven possible Rick's to 'visit' in Iowa:

http://teaser.ussearch.com/teaser/ 
teaser.jsp?adID=10002101&x=32&y=9&searchFName=Rick&searchMName=&searchLN 
ame=Bauer+&searchCity=Des+Moines&searchState=IA&searchApproxAge=40

Man

On Wednesday, December 11, 2002, at 08:01 PM, Dan Knight wrote:

> I'm sure you're all aware of the campaign by Rick Bauer to destroy Low
> End Mac by telling our advertisers what a terrible site we are for
> allowing our writers to share some opinions Mr. Bauer disagreed with.


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 -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks  |  & CDRWs on Sale!  |

  Support Low End Mac 

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Re: Making choices

2002-12-11 Thread Thomas Ethen 
Since Mr. Bauer is an advertising executive, maybe it would be in our
interest to find out just what agency he works for and boycott any company
he does advertising for and their products.

Paul Wellstone was definitely the poster child for liberalism, but he was a
good person, that would never have even thought of trying to destroy someone
that he disagreed with as his so called friend Rick Bauer is doing.

Tom

on 12/11/02 22:01, Dan Knight at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> I'm sure you're all aware of the campaign by Rick Bauer to destroy Low
> End Mac by telling our advertisers what a terrible site we are for
> allowing our writers to share some opinions Mr. Bauer disagreed with.


-- 
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 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com  | Refurbished Drives |
 -- Check our web site for refurbished PowerBooks  |  & CDRWs on Sale!  |

  Support Low End Mac 

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Making choices

2002-12-11 Thread Dan Knight 
I'm sure you're all aware of the campaign by Rick Bauer to destroy Low 
End Mac by telling our advertisers what a terrible site we are for 
allowing our writers to share some opinions Mr. Bauer disagreed with.



The fruits of his campaign: Other World Computing and Crucial Memory were 
among many sites receiving emails from Mr. Bauer, Russ Arcuri, and 
possibly others. Both sites contacted us, learned that we were moving 
such content elsewhere, and continue to support Low End Mac with ads 
and/or affiliate fees.

Mac Zone, Mac Mall, and Verizon DSL have removed us from their affiliate 
programs without ever contacting us (or if they did, their emails either 
didn't survive our spam filtering or were not sent as plain text email). 
I removed all links to Mac Zone about a week ago and all links to Mac 
Mall tonight.

I don't have details of our dealings with Mac Zone, but my records show 
that over the past year we have generated 16,000 visits, 100 purchases, 
and nearly $60,000 in sales volume. I am disappointed that they would 
give this up without saying a thing to us.

I recommend that if you value Low End Mac, you take your business to 
dealers who support our site -- OWC, Crucial Memory, Small Dog 
Electronics, PowerMax, Club Mac, and MacResQ among them -- and not 
support businesses such as Mac Mall, Mac Zone, and Verizon DSL that have 
pulled their support from Low End Mac.

If you do choose to boycott any of these businesses, you might want to 
tell them why. What goes around comes around.



-- 
Dan Knight, president, Cobweb Publishing, Inc.
  
  
   

Life is too short to use anything but a Mac. -- Roger Ebert


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