Re: hacking for a slimmer world

[dc]

On Nov 11, 2:09 am, "Jesse St.John" 
wrote:
> alright everyone i am using leopard 10.5.8 on a dp 1.25mhz mdd with 2
> gigs of ram, any tweaks that you would suggest, any ways to go about
> kernel hacking and trimming my system?

The easiest, cheapest and safest things to do with your MDD:
1. Download and run Monolingual. You can trim more than 2 GB of
unneccesary languages and architectures out your OS, it will run much
better. It's free.
2. SCSI PCI cards and SCSI hard drives are cheap now that most people
are using SATA or SSDs. A 15K SCSI drive with a 16 MB cache is an
awesome upgrade, around $50.00 for used 73 GB drives.
3. If you add another hard drive (of any kind) and use Carbon Copy
Cloner to clone your original drive it will defrag everything in the
process of cloning. Apple claims you don't need to defrag OS X but I
always felt mine ran better after using TechTool Pro to defrag files.

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Re: hacking for a slimmer world

[Bruce Godfrey]

dc, do you have any data on how much difference a fast SCSI drive makes 
in a MDD or similar G$ Mac?  I just installed one and I have used Disk 
Speed Bench X to test the transfer speed.  I find 80MB/sec.  My original 
IDE Hitachi Deskstar on the ATA100 bus is only moving about 50MB/sec.  
However, another WD drive on the same ATA 100 bus is also moving 80MB/sec.
I was hoping the 15K U320 SCSI drive would easily beat a good IDE drive, 
but that does not appear to be the case.  Is it maybe the kind of test 
Disk Speed Bench X performs?


Another related point - AFAIK the fastest SCSI card made for a PCI slot 
is U160.  The U320 cards are all PCI-X or later.  Those work in a PCI 
slot, but only at 33MHz and 32 bits.  The PCI SCSI cards, at least the 
ones from ATTO Tech, actually use the 64 bit wide PCI bus in old Macs.  
Maybe the only PCI cards made that do.


Bruce


dc wrote:

On Nov 11, 2:09 am, "Jesse St.John" 
wrote:
  

alright everyone i am using leopard 10.5.8 on a dp 1.25mhz mdd with 2
gigs of ram, any tweaks that you would suggest, any ways to go about
kernel hacking and trimming my system?



The easiest, cheapest and safest things to do with your MDD:
1. Download and run Monolingual. You can trim more than 2 GB of
unneccesary languages and architectures out your OS, it will run much
better. It's free.
2. SCSI PCI cards and SCSI hard drives are cheap now that most people
are using SATA or SSDs. A 15K SCSI drive with a 16 MB cache is an
awesome upgrade, around $50.00 for used 73 GB drives.
3. If you add another hard drive (of any kind) and use Carbon Copy
Cloner to clone your original drive it will defrag everything in the
process of cloning. Apple claims you don't need to defrag OS X but I
always felt mine ran better after using TechTool Pro to defrag files.

  


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Re: hacking for a slimmer world

[David W. Morris]

I think that the advantage of using SCSI drives is not only in the  
transfer speed, which as you say is equal to one of your newer IDE  
drives, but IDE uses more CPU DMA to run than using SCSI which frees  
the CPU up from managing the data transfer.  I don't know all the  
details as I am not a technical guy (not too much anyway), but when  
faced with limited CPU power, SCSI drives will always be better than  
IDE from what I have read in the past.


This will speed up your G4 PowerMac, as it will have more CPU  
resources to work on other tasks, instead of using a chunk of it's  
power to transfer data over the IDE bus.


I have several ATTO fibre optic controller cards pulled from Avid  
Meridian audio/video editing MDD G4 systems, if anyone is interested  
in getting one.  I think the max transfer speed for them is faster  
than your 80MB/s, but then you need a hard drive or adapter that  
converts drives to fibre optic, which I am unfamiliar with, as the  
editing systems did not come with the storage drives that the fibre  
optic cards connected to.


Not sure how you are going to test the speed improvement you can get  
from using SCSI drives instead of IDE, when both drives are  
transferring data at the same speed, but as I said above, your G4(s)  
should have much more resources available when using SCSI than IDE.



On Nov 15, 2011, at 7:21 AM, Bruce Godfrey wrote:

dc, do you have any data on how much difference a fast SCSI drive  
makes in a MDD or similar G$ Mac?  I just installed one and I have  
used Disk Speed Bench X to test the transfer speed.  I find 80MB/ 
sec.  My original IDE Hitachi Deskstar on the ATA100 bus is only  
moving about 50MB/sec.  However, another WD drive on the same ATA  
100 bus is also moving 80MB/sec.
I was hoping the 15K U320 SCSI drive would easily beat a good IDE  
drive, but that does not appear to be the case.  Is it maybe the  
kind of test Disk Speed Bench X performs?


Another related point - AFAIK the fastest SCSI card made for a PCI  
slot is U160.  The U320 cards are all PCI-X or later.  Those work in  
a PCI slot, but only at 33MHz and 32 bits.  The PCI SCSI cards, at  
least the ones from ATTO Tech, actually use the 64 bit wide PCI bus  
in old Macs.  Maybe the only PCI cards made that do.


Bruce


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Re: hacking for a slimmer world

[Jesse]

So what are the best drives and cards for scsi? Am I able to find larger drives 
in scsi? Seems as though, looking at the Mac swap list that,sadly, that a used 
option would be as expensive as a new one? Ne deals ne one?

Sent from my iPhone 4





On Nov 15, 2011, at 10:45 AM, "David W. Morris"  wrote:

> I think that the advantage of using SCSI drives is not only in the transfer 
> speed, which as you say is equal to one of your newer IDE drives, but IDE 
> uses more CPU DMA to run than using SCSI which frees the CPU up from managing 
> the data transfer.  I don't know all the details as I am not a technical guy 
> (not too much anyway), but when faced with limited CPU power, SCSI drives 
> will always be better than IDE from what I have read in the past.
> 
> This will speed up your G4 PowerMac, as it will have more CPU resources to 
> work on other tasks, instead of using a chunk of it's power to transfer data 
> over the IDE bus.
> 
> I have several ATTO fibre optic controller cards pulled from Avid Meridian 
> audio/video editing MDD G4 systems, if anyone is interested in getting one.  
> I think the max transfer speed for them is faster than your 80MB/s, but then 
> you need a hard drive or adapter that converts drives to fibre optic, which I 
> am unfamiliar with, as the editing systems did not come with the storage 
> drives that the fibre optic cards connected to.
> 
> Not sure how you are going to test the speed improvement you can get from 
> using SCSI drives instead of IDE, when both drives are transferring data at 
> the same speed, but as I said above, your G4(s) should have much more 
> resources available when using SCSI than IDE.
> 
> 
> On Nov 15, 2011, at 7:21 AM, Bruce Godfrey wrote:
> 
>> dc, do you have any data on how much difference a fast SCSI drive makes in a 
>> MDD or similar G$ Mac?  I just installed one and I have used Disk Speed 
>> Bench X to test the transfer speed.  I find 80MB/sec.  My original IDE 
>> Hitachi Deskstar on the ATA100 bus is only moving about 50MB/sec.  However, 
>> another WD drive on the same ATA 100 bus is also moving 80MB/sec.
>> I was hoping the 15K U320 SCSI drive would easily beat a good IDE drive, but 
>> that does not appear to be the case.  Is it maybe the kind of test Disk 
>> Speed Bench X performs?
>> 
>> Another related point - AFAIK the fastest SCSI card made for a PCI slot is 
>> U160.  The U320 cards are all PCI-X or later.  Those work in a PCI slot, but 
>> only at 33MHz and 32 bits.  The PCI SCSI cards, at least the ones from ATTO 
>> Tech, actually use the 64 bit wide PCI bus in old Macs.  Maybe the only PCI 
>> cards made that do.
>> 
>> Bruce
> 
> -- 
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> Macs.
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Re: hacking for a slimmer world

[David W. Morris]

I have a box full of SCSI-3 drives, but they are all smaller sizes,  
only 18gb, 36gb & 73gb drives.  I would suggest if you are going to do  
this to have a faster system, put MacOSX on the faster SCSI drive and  
use a larger IDE drive for storage of your large files, like videos  
and huge iTunes libraries.  SCSI drives are not yet really cheap, or  
cheaper than IDE drives.  Finding large SCSI drives will likely be  
expensive and you won't find them as large as the current IDE and SATA  
drives.  I don't know the speed of, or availability of SATA  
controllers that will work in a G4 PowerMac, but that might be a  
better choice, instead of searching for old SCSI hardware and drives.



On Nov 15, 2011, at 9:21 AM, Jesse wrote:

So what are the best drives and cards for scsi? Am I able to find  
larger drives in scsi? Seems as though, looking at the Mac swap list  
that,sadly, that a used option would be as expensive as a new one?  
Ne deals ne one?


Sent from my iPhone 4


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Re: hacking for a slimmer world

[Dan]

At 7:21 AM -0800 11/15/2011, Bruce Godfrey wrote:

do you have any data on how much difference a fast SCSI drive makes in a MDD


Multiple factors.  The drive has to be able to throw data at x speed. 
(read and write cycles are usually quite different)!  The drive's 
hardware cache has has be large enough to be able to buffer 
sufficient data to keep both the mechanism and i/o bus busy.  And the 
i/o bus, be it IDE or SCSI or ..., has to be able to throw the data 
quickly.


In my experience, the drive's capabilities are usually the bottleneck.

And be careful of the version and bit widths of the i/o bus. 
Firewire, btw, is actually a form of SCSI 3.


Wikipedia has some very nice articles that include tables comparing 
bus speeds...


As far as getting the best performance overall...  Optimize speed, 
capacity, and especially cost.  Your best bet is a SATA controller 
and 7200rpm or faster SATA drives.  That way the drives are 
inexpensive *and* usable in future machines!


fwiw,
- Dan.
--
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- Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth.

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eSATA speed G5

[JOHN CARMONNE]

I'd like to know why my eSATA  card on my PM G5 dual 2.7 transfers  
files no faster than my F/W400 or F/W 800. Can it be the enclosure? I  
get the same results on my Mac Pro.


John Carmonne
Yorba Linda CA 92886
From iMac Core Duo 2.0



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Re: eSATA speed G5

[Kris Tilford]

On Nov 15, 2011, at 12:52 PM, JOHN CARMONNE wrote:

I'd like to know why my eSATA  card on my PM G5 dual 2.7 transfers  
files no faster than my F/W400 or F/W 800. Can it be the enclosure?  
I get the same results on my Mac Pro.


It's the physical limitation of a single HD, mostly determined by the  
speed of the platter rotation and the density of the bits on the  
platter. Newer HDs are slightly faster than old ones, but not  
exponentially, just linearly. To get faster transfer speeds you'll  
either need to buy a SSD or create a RAID of multiple HDs.


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Re: eSATA speed G5

[peterhaas]

> I'd like to know why my eSATA  card on my PM G5 dual 2.7 transfers
> files no faster than my F/W400 or F/W 800. Can it be the enclosure? I
> get the same results on my Mac Pro.

Which eSATA card?

The LaCie card and the very similar OWC card are based upon the Initio
chip set and that chip set is SATA I, only, although the drives could be
SATA I, SATA II or SATA III, assuming the drives are "well-behaved".

The Silicon Image 3132 card is also SATA I, only, although the drives also
could be SATA I, SATA II or SATA III.

There are a number of SATA II cards with either iSATA or eSATA, or with
both iSATA and eSATA (any combination of iSATA and/or eSATA, but only two
ports are available, using various jumper options, at a time).

There are a few SATA III cards and those, too, offer a manufacturer's
option of eSATA or iSATA, at the time of manufacture.

Modern SATA cards are adaptable to the drives being any combination of
SATA I, SATA II and SATA III, with the card's internal data rate being
limited to its design maximum, SATA I (1.5 Gb/s), SATA II (3 Gb/s) or SATA
III (6 Gb/s).

The options are greater for Intel-based Macks (and, of course, for Hacks).

Most cards have a maximum internal data rate (data from the drive _in_ to
the internal FIFO buffer and then _out_ from the internal FIFO buffer to
the host's bus) in the 40 MB/s range, but there are cards with higher and
lower performace.

The very old (at this point) Initio-based SATA I cards (LaCie and OWC) are
useful in PPC macs as their firmware supports booting the OS, even though
the card is fundamentally limited to SATA I.

For Hacks, the Highpoint Technologies RAIDRocket (or RocketRAID, I can't
keep that straight) 622 supports two eSATA ports (there IS a manufacturing
option of two iSATA ports, but I've never seen such a card) AND
additionally it supports "port multipliers" and RAID at SATA III speed
(the Silicon Image products generally support SATA I, although there IS a
new chip which purports to support SATA III). This 622 product is based
upon a new Marvell chip and is the first, or at least amongst the first,
to support eSATA at SATA III speeds.

Lots of options for Hacks ... not many options for Macks ... still fewer
options for PPC Macks.





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Re: eSATA speed G5

[JohnCarmonne]

On Nov 15, 2011, at 11:44 AM, Kris Tilford wrote:

> On Nov 15, 2011, at 12:52 PM, JOHN CARMONNE wrote:
> 
>> I'd like to know why my eSATA  card on my PM G5 dual 2.7 transfers files no 
>> faster than my F/W400 or F/W 800. Can it be the enclosure? I get the same 
>> results on my Mac Pro.
> 
> It's the physical limitation of a single HD, mostly determined by the speed 
> of the platter rotation and the density of the bits on the platter. Newer HDs 
> are slightly faster than old ones, but not exponentially, just linearly. To 
> get faster transfer speeds you'll either need to buy a SSD or create a RAID 
> of multiple HDs.
> 

Thanks.  I've been looking for a good excuse to set up a RAID box so would a 
RAID 0 be faster to use than the safer RAID 1? And does the data move from RAID 
to internal drive as fast as internal to the RAID. Would the 64MB buffer SATA 
HDD's help too?

John Carmonne
Yorba Linda CA
92886 USA
MacPro 2.66 Quad Nehalem






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iPad on New Laptop

[JoeTaxpayer]

An iPad has been synced with a G4, the user is my daughter, she has
her own iTune account.
She has a MacBook, and has iTunes on it as well, so I suggested she
move from the (family room) G4 to her own computer for syncing.

What is the risk in syncing with a different computer? Will the laptop
know to just load up the apps and tunes she bought on the G4? I want
to make sure she doesn't lose these paid apps or iTune purchases.

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Re: iPad on New Laptop

[Bruce Johnson]

On Nov 15, 2011, at 3:13 PM, JoeTaxpayer wrote:

> An iPad has been synced with a G4, the user is my daughter, she has
> her own iTune account.
> She has a MacBook, and has iTunes on it as well, so I suggested she
> move from the (family room) G4 to her own computer for syncing.
> 
> What is the risk in syncing with a different computer? Will the laptop
> know to just load up the apps and tunes she bought on the G4? I want
> to make sure she doesn't lose these paid apps or iTune purchases.

This will work just fine. iTunes purchases (apps, music, video, books) will 
transfer just fine, photos,non-iTunes store movies, synched addresses, and 
non-iTunes store music will be lost. Some non-itunes music from sources like 
Amazon will let you re-download your purchases.

(although Senuti will work for that stuff, iirc, certainly the music.)

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


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Re: iPad on New Laptop

[JoeTaxpayer]

On Nov 15, 5:59 pm, Bruce Johnson 
wrote:

>
> This will work just fine. iTunes purchases (apps, music, video, books) will 
> transfer just fine, photos,non-iTunes store movies, synched addresses, and 
> non-iTunes store music will be lost. Some non-itunes music from sources like 
> Amazon will let you re-download your purchases.

Thanks, we'll just be sure to save MP3/ripped music in a folder to
reload if need be.

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Drive Genius 2.2 touchy?

[JohnCarmonne]

I have a Drive Genius 2.2 disk and it installs on all my machines from G4 Cube 
to Mac Pro and it will boot all of them  but if I try to boot it on My G5 dual 
2.7 It does a Kernel Panic internal optical or external. However I can install 
it on the machine and run it normal. Why does the G5 do this?


John Carmonne
Yorba Linda CA
92886 USA
MacPro 2.66 Quad Nehalem






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Re: Drive Genius 2.2 touchy?

[Valter Prahlad]

Il giorno 16-11-2011 1:25, JohnCarmonne ha scritto:

> I have a Drive Genius 2.2 disk and it installs on all my machines from G4 Cube
> to Mac Pro and it will boot all of them  but if I try to boot it on My G5 dual
> 2.7 It does a Kernel Panic internal optical or external. However I can install
> it on the machine and run it normal.

SInce the problem arises when booting, I thought it might have to do with
the version of OSX residing on the disk... maybe it hasn't the last update,
or is "wrong" for the G5.

But since it can boot the Mac Pro, its OSX should be new enough... :-?

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Re: hacking for a slimmer world

[Stephen E. Bodnar]

I'll keep my ears open. We live up on Purtov now and have a pretty 
active feeder, but Switgard and Lars will be over in Germany for 
Christmas.  If somebody wants to sit in our kitchen drinking hot 
buttered rums and counting birds, that's OK too.


Stephen

On 11/15/11 9:51 AM, Dan wrote:

At 7:21 AM -0800 11/15/2011, Bruce Godfrey wrote:

do you have any data on how much difference a fast SCSI drive makes in
a MDD


Multiple factors. The drive has to be able to throw data at x speed.
(read and write cycles are usually quite different)! The drive's
hardware cache has has be large enough to be able to buffer sufficient
data to keep both the mechanism and i/o bus busy. And the i/o bus, be it
IDE or SCSI or ..., has to be able to throw the data quickly.

In my experience, the drive's capabilities are usually the bottleneck.

And be careful of the version and bit widths of the i/o bus. Firewire,
btw, is actually a form of SCSI 3.

Wikipedia has some very nice articles that include tables comparing bus
speeds...

As far as getting the best performance overall... Optimize speed,
capacity, and especially cost. Your best bet is a SATA controller and
7200rpm or faster SATA drives. That way the drives are inexpensive *and*
usable in future machines!

fwiw,
- Dan.


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Re: iPad on New Laptop

[Charles Lenington]

On 11/15/11 4:13 PM, JoeTaxpayer wrote:

An iPad has been synced with a G4, the user is my daughter, she has
her own iTune account.
She has a MacBook, and has iTunes on it as well, so I suggested she
move from the (family room) G4 to her own computer for syncing.

What is the risk in syncing with a different computer? Will the laptop
know to just load up the apps and tunes she bought on the G4? I want
to make sure she doesn't lose these paid apps or iTune purchases.

The first thing that comes to mind is the OS versions.The apps will need 
to be updated to a current version compatible with with both OS X and 
iOS.


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Re: Drive Genius 2.2 touchy?

[JOHN CARMONNE]

On Nov 15, 2011, at 5:13 PM, Valter Prahlad wrote:


Il giorno 16-11-2011 1:25, JohnCarmonne ha scritto:

I have a Drive Genius 2.2 disk and it installs on all my machines  
from G4 Cube
to Mac Pro and it will boot all of them  but if I try to boot it on  
My G5 dual
2.7 It does a Kernel Panic internal optical or external. However I  
can install

it on the machine and run it normal.


SInce the problem arises when booting, I thought it might have to do  
with
the version of OSX residing on the disk... maybe it hasn't the last  
update,

or is "wrong" for the G5.

But since it can boot the Mac Pro, its OSX should be new enough... :-?



The boot volume is 10.5.7

John Carmonne
Yorba Linda CA 92886
USA
From PM G5 Dual 2.7



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Fed up with Google changes on browsers in Tiger

[a1]

I use Panther and Tiger on my G4 and other macs, usually switching
between Omniweb, Camino and sometimes Opera. I gave up on Firefox and
10.4 Fox simply because I dont want to do jumping jacks simply in
order to watch youtube or facebook videos. I am utterly fed up with
what Google did to Reader, and now, gchat within gmail and even
opening gmail messages has gotten flaky, unreliable. I have always
used webmail and browser apps but I have simply had enough. So, some
questions, hardware and software.

Hardware: I am either going to radically upgrade the G4 or buy one of
the G5's I see flooding the market here. Am I really going to have
great relief upgrading to Leopard on a G5 or is it only a matter of
time before Google starts messing with the compatibility of browsers
for Leopard, too? Between Firefox, Google and Apple "sunsetting" their
products prematurely, simultaneously really, a PPC user seemingly has
nowhere to turn. Incidentally, would an older IDE hard drive simply
plug in and work in a G5 for migration purposes?

Software: I really, really need an RSS reader that will remain
reliable with Tiger. And, I really need an email program I can suck my
gmail out of Google without bothering anymore with their webmail. I
tried Thunderbird for a while but disliked the user interface,
specifically an inability to make the text in panes larger. I have
never gotten a version of Apple Mail to work with gmail. I want to
leave browsing to a minimum as at this juncture none of the browsers
really are pleasant.

My internet days go back to vax machines and Elm mail, running Usenet
off a shell, and text-only telnet. All this modeming into an ISP using
my color classic. I was much happier then! I have never been so
annoyed at online experience as these days. Do people use Terminal for
email or any way around the suffocation of the upgrade curve?

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Re: Fed up with Google changes on browsers in Tiger

[Kris Tilford]

On Nov 16, 2011, at 12:57 AM, a1 wrote:


I really need an email program I can suck my
gmail out of Google without bothering anymore with their webmail.


Use OS X Mail.app. There are several tutorials for setting up Gmail on  
Mail.app:










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