Re: Mac OS X Server 1.2 - WAS::::: Re: Updates for Mac OS X?

[Mac User #330250]

--  Original message  --
Subject: Re: Mac OS X Server 1.2 - WAS: Re: Updates for Mac OS X?
Date:Friday, 13. July 2012
From:Jerry 
To:  g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
> I really haven't tried anything exotic to make this work.  When Apple
> announced 10.7/Lion and announced Rosetta would no longer be included, I
> figured I better start picking up all the (Apple) boxes I wanted as I
> have many PPC apps and games that will never be ported to x86.  I
> purchased my cube initially to run OS 9.x.

I did some testing with Mac OS. I am able to run 9.0 (which is NOT supported 
to run on the Cube) with an Open Firmware hack that tells it to identify 
itself as Power Mac G4 AGP Graphics.

It really is the Mac OS part that refuses to start when the Mac it is running 
on doesn’t correspond to a “whitelist” of supported Macs. My guess is that 
this is coded inside the Mac OS ROM file. Theoretically it should work to 
replace this file from a later Mac OS or to hack the file to run on the very 
Mac 
model you want it to run on.

My next step will be to test if 8.6 runs if I make my Cube identify itself as 
a Power Mac G4 PCI /aka/ “Yikes!” (the last Power Mac to support 8.6).

I don’t have Mac OS X Server 1.2 ready for testing, but I will do so as soon 
as I can manage to get some spare time.

My hope is that it will also check for a system listed in some kind of 
“whitelist” – like Mac OS 9 does. If so, Mac OS X Server 1.2 will run on a 
Cube if the Cube is made to look like a Power Mac G4 AGP Graphics. The impact 
is very little as the Cube design is basically the AGP Graphics, only in a 
smaller case, without fans and without PCI slots.

> In April 2011, I found a legal copy of OS X Server 1.2 server on
> Amazon.com, of all places.  I tried a few things to make it work, but
> was non-successful.
> 
> Later, I purchased an early G4 from the LEM list that was on the HCL and
> was still unsuccessful with 1.2.
> 
> Today, my Server 1.2 box is sitting on my book shelf.  I need to get
> motivated again, and come up with plan C !

I will keep you informed.

Cheers,
Andreas  aka  Mac User #330250

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Re: [G3-5]Re: Updates for Mac OS X?

[Mac User #330250]

--  Original message  --
Subject: Re: [G3-5]Re: Updates for Mac OS X?
Date:Wednesday, 18. July 2012
From:MaGioZal 
To:  g3-5-list@googlegroups.com

> The strange thing is that up until this year (I had to re-install the OS in
> this HD) you could use Software Update to download software even in Mac OS
> 9!

Yes. In december last year (2011) I reinstalled 10.2 and 10.3 and I was able 
to use Software Update normally.

So the server must have been disconnected just recently, in the first half of 
this year.

I checked: 10.4 updates are still supported via Software Update. Question is: 
for how long?

Cheers,
Andreas  aka  Mac User #330250

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Re: [G3-5]Re: Updates for Mac OS X?

[Mac User #330250]

--  Original message  --
Subject: Re: [G3-5]Re: Updates for Mac OS X?
Date:Wednesday, 18. July 2012
From:Brian Christmas 
To:  g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
> And I personally wouldn't have it any other way. The main reason we're
> going through an upheaval with Mountain Lion is because of all 64 bit
> addressing in the OS, and more importantly, the requirement of a suitable
> Graphics card. Even then, ML will run on mid 2007 iMacs up, tho sans some
> features apparently.

That’s an excuse. It is just convenient for Apple to have to some degree a 
reasonable explanation for abondoning hardware that is still very usable 
today.

The true reason is of course that it’s too much work for them to make it 
happen (or that it’s simply easier to remove stuff and to abondon the old[er]) 
and that at the same time they can make people buy newer Macs even if the 
older ones would suffice still.

Apples software policy is purely motivated by their selling perspective. No 
more than that.

> Compare this to the upcoming release of Windows 8, where I've read many
> PC's even less than a year old won't be able to run it.

Microsoft recommends:

1 GHz or faster processor
1 GB RAM (32-bit) or 2 GB RAM (64-bit)
16 GB available hard disk space (32-bit) or 20 GB (64-bit)
DirectX 9 graphics device with WDDM 1.0 or higher driver 

That sounds quite okay to me.

> In 2014 we might see an OS that handles things like touch screens, and 3D
> graphics, and retina displays, that even 2012 Macs won't handle. Who
> knows? It's a complete guessing game.

I understand that new technologies need software that supports it. But 
abondoning old hardware for no reason is something completely different.

> I'd rather the existing situation than be stuck on Classic OS 9.2.2 forever
> though. Power to the people still using it, but the world moves on. Even
> OS X will disappear one day, and it will be exciting to see the OS that
> will replace it!

Why would you want to be stuck with 9.2.2?

At the same time: why would you want to be forced to abondon older but good 
functioning software on newer Macs?

Now, a lot of people had good working software for Mac OS Classic, either 68k 
or PPC, which they liked using and would hate to abondon – sometimes very 
simply owed to the fact that their files could not be converted to similar 
solutions on the newer OS, e.g. Mac OS X.

The solution could be something like the Classic Environment. The Classic 
Environment was a good solution.

Question: Why did Apple remove Classic support from Mac OS X 10.5? The two 
architectures (PowerPC and Intel) are different anyway:
1.) On Leopard/Intel-x64 you’ll have Java 6, on Leopard/PowerPC you’re stuck 
with Java 5.
2.) On Leopard/Intel you’d have Rosetta for Mac OS X/PowerPC applications. On 
Leopard/PowerPC this is obviously not needed.
3.) On Tieger/PowerPC you have the Classic Environment, which was not 
available on Tiger/Intel (but could have been ported, like there is 
SheepShaver and PearPC and Baselisk which still supports Mac OS/68k and Mac 
OS/PowerPC on Intel-Macs).

The answer is as simple as shocking: because Apple decided so. Because Apple 
wants to abondon. Because Apple is ONLY looking forward, which makes us either 
also look forward (and abandon the old and good) or be angry at Apple!


> I've got an iPad (or rather, my Wife's got an iPad, that I happen to own,
> and see occasionally), and to see how my grandkids, and elderly friends
> take to the iOS like a duck to water makes me realize how important a
> simple OS is to the majority of people. The vast majority can't handle a
> complex OS like Classic, or even OS X, and I can see why Apple seem to be
> moving to a multi-level choice of how an OS behaves; beginner,
> intermediate, and pro users. Retrocompatability with anything existing
> today will be out the window, and rightly so.

And this is what some consider to be wrong.
What’s wrong with being simple and at the same time allowing for professional 
tasks as well?

On Mac OS X (10.0 through 10.5) I can use the simple and intuitive GUI and at 
the same time I can launch the Terminal and do some UNIX style command-line 
business.

I can go deeper into the system and see what’s making the applications “tick”.

The good thing about Mac OS X: it just works, even if you don’t know what 
makes it “tick”.

> Who on Earth would want to see OS X.8 running on a Tangarine iMac? Talk
> about boringly slow!

No one.
Who would want Classic on Mac OS X 10.5/PowerPC? Everyone.
Who would appreciate Classic and Rosetta on Mac OS X/Intel? Some Apple fans 
from over decades.
Who would want Mac OS X 10.6 to work on Core i-Macs from 2011: some 
professionals (and there is no technical reason for this not to work, except 
that Apple forbids it!).
Who would want Mac OS X 10.8 run on the first Intel-Macs from 2006? At least 
the first Mac Pro-users feel that their 64-bit Xeon processor and their PCIe 
graphics card are well suited for this 

Re: [G3-5]Re: Updates for Mac OS X?

[Cameron Kaiser]

> Question: Why did Apple remove Classic support from Mac OS X 10.5? The two 
> architectures (PowerPC and Intel) are different anyway:

I fully agree that dropping Classic in Leopard was absolutely arbitrary on
Apple's part. In fairness, Classic requires significant hacks to the kernel
and low-level operating system and these may not have been UNIX 03 compliant,
but the PowerPC version of Leopard isn't technically anyway even without
Classic (only the Intel version), and your other disparities are spot-on.

But it's water under the bridge now.

-- 
 personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
  Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com
-- This message will self-destruct in five seconds. Good luck, Jim. -- M:I 

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Re: AM/FM radio tuner for OS X

[Jeff Bequette]

I still use a radio shark daily to record Rush to iTunes , for shifted 
listening.  (work nights, sleep days)  I have the RS1, and can only assume the 
RS 2 was better.


On Jul 18, 2012, at 7:48 PM, Jerry wrote:

> Does anyone have an AM/FM radio that they would recommend?
> 
> I know years back that Griffin had the Radio Shark and Radio Shark II.
> 
> http://www.griffintechnology.com/support/radioshark/
> 
> I could pick one of those up from eBay or somewhere, but I never saw a
> good review for either one of those.
> 
> Thanks for any comments.
> 
> Jerry
> 
> -- 
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Re: Mac OS X Server 1.2 - WAS::::: Re: Updates for Mac OS X?

[Mac User #330250]

--  Original message  --
Subject: Re: Mac OS X Server 1.2 - WAS: Re: Updates for Mac OS X?
Date:Friday, 13. July 2012
From:Jerry 
To:  g3-5-list@googlegroups.com

> In April 2011, I found a legal copy of OS X Server 1.2 server on
> Amazon.com, of all places.  I tried a few things to make it work, but
> was non-successful.

I’m just trying to install Mac OS X Server 1.2v3 on my G4 AGP Graphics. I 
found that the installation disc has two bootable volumes: the first one is a 
Mac OS 9 (specifically 9.0) boot disc that has the installer on it. You can 
also use Drive Setup to initialize a volume – so you can choose one for the 
installation.

Knowing that the Cube cannot boot Mac OS 9.0 – there is your problem.

> Later, I purchased an early G4 from the LEM list that was on the HCL and
> was still unsuccessful with 1.2.

Which Mac did you collect, exactly? (If you’re not sure, you may want to use 
Mactracker or Onyx to find out, or, if you’re brave: System Profiler).

> Today, my Server 1.2 box is sitting on my book shelf.  I need to get
> motivated again, and come up with plan C !

You should definitly give it another try.

Contact me should you be interested.


Cheers,
Andreas  aka  Mac User #330250

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Re: [G3-5]Re: Updates for Mac OS X?

[MaGioZal]

On 7/18/12 4:17 AM, Brian Christmas at  wrote:

> I'd rather the existing situation than be stuck on Classic OS 9.2.2 forever
> though. Power to the people still using it, but the world moves on. Even OS X
> will disappear one day, and it will be exciting to see the OS that will
> replace it!

But anyway, as the same way I think people are free to use old socks, they
are also free to use old OSes. ;-P
 




-- 
MaGioZal.




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Re: [G3-5]Re: Virtual Intel Mac for G multiprocessors

[MaGioZal]

On 7/18/12 9:26 PM, Jerry at  wrote:

> +1 for Qemu.  I have great hopes for it on other platforms also.

Qemu? I'e never heard about it... Is it free? Does it run on PPC Tiger? ;-)
 




-- 
MaGioZal.



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Re: AM/FM radio tuner for OS X

[Jerry]

Thank you for the follow up.

I am assuming that you are still using it as it has been a good product
for you?  Vs. no other alternatives.

Griffin still has all the Radio Shark software up and available on their
site.

Maybe I need to hunt down a Radio Shark 2 and give it a try.  The
Internet is so full of poor reviews for this product, I was scared to
look further.

Jerry

On 07/19/12 11:16 AM, Jeff Bequette wrote:
> I still use a radio shark daily to record Rush to iTunes , for shifted 
> listening.  (work nights, sleep days)  I have the RS1, and can only assume 
> the RS 2 was better.
> 
> 
> On Jul 18, 2012, at 7:48 PM, Jerry wrote:
> 
>> Does anyone have an AM/FM radio that they would recommend?
>>
>> I know years back that Griffin had the Radio Shark and Radio Shark II.
>>
>> http://www.griffintechnology.com/support/radioshark/
>>
>> I could pick one of those up from eBay or somewhere, but I never saw a
>> good review for either one of those.
>>
>> Thanks for any comments.
>>
>> Jerry
>>

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Re: Mac OS X Server 1.2 - WAS::::: Re: Updates for Mac OS X?

[Jerry]

Thanks for the follow up.  I would love to hear if you get it working.

As stated earlier, I purchased my Mac OS X server 1.2 from Amazon, but
it was used.  It included only the OS X server disk + the box and
documentation.

The web objects disk was missing, but I was OK with that.  I wonder if I
am missing something else.

Jerry




On 07/19/12 01:13 PM, Mac User #330250 wrote:
> --  Original message  --
> Subject: Re: Mac OS X Server 1.2 - WAS: Re: Updates for Mac OS X?
> Date:Friday, 13. July 2012
> From:Jerry 
> To:  g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
> 
>> In April 2011, I found a legal copy of OS X Server 1.2 server on
>> Amazon.com, of all places.  I tried a few things to make it work, but
>> was non-successful.
> 
> I’m just trying to install Mac OS X Server 1.2v3 on my G4 AGP Graphics. I 
> found that the installation disc has two bootable volumes: the first one is a 
> Mac OS 9 (specifically 9.0) boot disc that has the installer on it. You can 
> also use Drive Setup to initialize a volume – so you can choose one for the 
> installation.
> 
> Knowing that the Cube cannot boot Mac OS 9.0 – there is your problem.
> 
>> Later, I purchased an early G4 from the LEM list that was on the HCL and
>> was still unsuccessful with 1.2.
> 
> Which Mac did you collect, exactly? (If you’re not sure, you may want to use 
> Mactracker or Onyx to find out, or, if you’re brave: System Profiler).
> 
>> Today, my Server 1.2 box is sitting on my book shelf.  I need to get
>> motivated again, and come up with plan C !
> 
> You should definitly give it another try.
> 
> Contact me should you be interested.
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Andreas  aka  Mac User #330250
> 

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Re: Mac OS X Server 1.2 - WAS::::: Re: Updates for Mac OS X?

[Kyle Hansen]

Cubes shipped with MacOS 9.0.4 so what do you mean by they can't boot OS 9?

-- Kyle Hansen

When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro! --Hunter S. Thompson





On 7/19/12 11:13 AM, "Mac User #330250"  wrote:

>--  Original message  --
>Subject: Re: Mac OS X Server 1.2 - WAS: Re: Updates for Mac OS X?
>Date:Friday, 13. July 2012
>From:Jerry 
>To:  g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
>
>> In April 2011, I found a legal copy of OS X Server 1.2 server on
>> Amazon.com, of all places.  I tried a few things to make it work, but
>> was non-successful.
>
>I¹m just trying to install Mac OS X Server 1.2v3 on my G4 AGP Graphics. I
>found that the installation disc has two bootable volumes: the first one
>is a 
>Mac OS 9 (specifically 9.0) boot disc that has the installer on it. You
>can 
>also use Drive Setup to initialize a volume ­ so you can choose one for
>the 
>installation.
>
>Knowing that the Cube cannot boot Mac OS 9.0 ­ there is your problem.
>
>> Later, I purchased an early G4 from the LEM list that was on the HCL and
>> was still unsuccessful with 1.2.
>
>Which Mac did you collect, exactly? (If you¹re not sure, you may want to
>use 
>Mactracker or Onyx to find out, or, if you¹re brave: System Profiler).
>
>> Today, my Server 1.2 box is sitting on my book shelf.  I need to get
>> motivated again, and come up with plan C !
>
>You should definitly give it another try.
>
>Contact me should you be interested.
>
>
>Cheers,
>Andreas  aka  Mac User #330250
>
>-- 
>You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group
>for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on
>Power Macs.
>The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our
>netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
>To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
>For more options, visit this group at
>http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
>


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Re: Mac OS X Server 1.2 - WAS::::: Re: Updates for Mac OS X?

[Fabian Fang]

The two Cube models came pre-installed with Mac OS 9.0.4, and  
therefore could not boot into OS 9.0.  No Macs can boot into any OS  
versions lower than what they came pre-installed with.



On Jul 19, 2012, at 7:22 PM, Kyle Hansen wrote:

Cubes shipped with MacOS 9.0.4 so what do you mean by they can't  
boot OS 9?


On 7/19/12 11:13 AM, "Mac User #330250"  wrote:


--  Original message  --
Subject: Re: Mac OS X Server 1.2 - WAS: Re: Updates for Mac OS X?
Date:Friday, 13. July 2012
From:Jerry 
To:  g3-5-list@googlegroups.com


In April 2011, I found a legal copy of OS X Server 1.2 server on
Amazon.com, of all places.  I tried a few things to make it work,  
but

was non-successful.


I¹m just trying to install Mac OS X Server 1.2v3 on my G4 AGP  
Graphics. I
found that the installation disc has two bootable volumes: the  
first one

is a
Mac OS 9 (specifically 9.0) boot disc that has the installer on it.  
You

can
also use Drive Setup to initialize a volume ­ so you can choose one  
for

the
installation.

Knowing that the Cube cannot boot Mac OS 9.0 ­ there is your problem.

Later, I purchased an early G4 from the LEM list that was on the  
HCL and

was still unsuccessful with 1.2.


Which Mac did you collect, exactly? (If you¹re not sure, you may  
want to

use
Mactracker or Onyx to find out, or, if you¹re brave: System  
Profiler).



Today, my Server 1.2 box is sitting on my book shelf.  I need to get
motivated again, and come up with plan C !


You should definitly give it another try.

Contact me should you be interested.

Cheers,
Andreas  aka  Mac User #330250


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Re: Mac OS X Server 1.2 - WAS::::: Re: Updates for Mac OS X?

[Kyle Hansen]

I am aware of that. But he just said OS 9. I was unaware he meant OS 9.0
specifically. 
===
Kyle H. Hansen
Apple Certified Desktop Technician (ACDT)
Apple Certified Portable Technician (ACPT)
Apple Certified System Administrator (ACSA)
Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer (MCSE)
k...@hansen-technical.com
www.hansen-technical.com
===




On 7/19/12 7:37 PM, "Fabian Fang"  wrote:

>The two Cube models came pre-installed with Mac OS 9.0.4, and
>therefore could not boot into OS 9.0.  No Macs can boot into any OS
>versions lower than what they came pre-installed with.


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Re: Mac OS X Server 1.2 - WAS::::: Re: Updates for Mac OS X?

[Jason Brown]

A quick google search came up with this result. I read through it and it 
makes sense as to why it is not working and how to make it work. I do 
not have a cube to test this on however, anyone wanna donate one to the 
cause? :P Hopefully this helps ya. :)

http://www.mulle-kybernetik.com/techinfos/Cube.html


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Re: Mac OS X Server 1.2 - WAS::::: Re: Updates for Mac OS X?

[Charles Lenington]

I'm confused!  Why did you reply to a completely different topic, 
changing subject







On 7/19/12 1:13 PM, Mac User #330250 wrote:

--  Original message  --
Subject: Re: Mac OS X Server 1.2 - WAS: Re: Updates for Mac OS X?
Date:Friday, 13. July 2012
From:Jerry
To:  g3-5-list@googlegroups.com


In April 2011, I found a legal copy of OS X Server 1.2 server on
Amazon.com, of all places.  I tried a few things to make it work, but
was non-successful.

I’m just trying to install Mac OS X Server 1.2v3 on my G4 AGP Graphics. I
found that the installation disc has two bootable volumes: the first one is a
Mac OS 9 (specifically 9.0) boot disc that has the installer on it. You can
also use Drive Setup to initialize a volume – so you can choose one for the
installation.

Knowing that the Cube cannot boot Mac OS 9.0 – there is your problem.


Later, I purchased an early G4 from the LEM list that was on the HCL and
was still unsuccessful with 1.2.

Which Mac did you collect, exactly? (If you’re not sure, you may want to use
Mactracker or Onyx to find out, or, if you’re brave: System Profiler).


Today, my Server 1.2 box is sitting on my book shelf.  I need to get
motivated again, and come up with plan C !

You should definitly give it another try.

Contact me should you be interested.


Cheers,
Andreas  aka  Mac User #330250




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